Where Will People Commune In A Godless America? | 538 Politics Podcast
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- čas přidán 3. 04. 2024
- Americans are becoming less religious and two new surveys out just last week punctuate just how quickly that’s happening. According to the Public Religion Research Institute, 26 percent of Americans now consider themselves unaffiliated with any religion. That’s up from 21 percent a decade ago and just 6 percent in the early '90s. According to Gallup, the number of Americans who attend religious services weekly or nearly every week has fallen from 42 percent in 2000 to 30 percent now. In this installment of the 538 Politics podcast, Galen speaks with a roundtable of experts on religion and society about why the decline has happened and what it portends for American communities, networks and politics. Joining the podcast are Melissa Deckman, CEO of the Public Religion Research Institute; Ryan Burge, Professor of Political Science at Eastern Illinois University and a Baptist Pastor; and Daniel Cox, Director of the Survey Center on American Life.
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The way this discussion is framed really comes from religious people. Religion is so central to there life, it's hard to imagine living without it. But i assure you that an atheist like myself don't spend a min agonizing over what to do with all my free time without church. It never occurs to me. This is a perceived need only by religious people.
I also find that 12% atheist percentage very sus. Religious people like to lie to themselves and others in order to sleep at night 🤔
we kind of take it for granted, but not long ago, associations were a huge part of American life. My grandfather was a Shriner, he attended a Hunting Club, Caroling and Choir, Bowling Team, Softball, business/professional associations, and of course... the local church. Especially in the days before TV, people loved this kind of stuff. It takes a lot of work and time to keep an association going, whether it's a church or a board game night. Someone has to organize and lead it, then you have to find space, maybe someone needs a ride, you're always losing people to attrition, money can become an issue...
We've lost associational life for many reasons, over the years, for good and bad. But church life is kind of the last major holdout, where a group of people reliably get together and hang out, and you can expect people will be nice to you.
Point being, if you lose this thing, you stop going to church, for most people, it's not like they simply replace it with some other club that's just as rewarding. It's a flat loss, that social contact, routine, and structure. I think that's an interesting thing to talk about, even though I'm a committed atheist.
@@wolfumzThis is an issue only for deconverted. The younger generation who never was religious have no such problem. Gen Z and younger could care less about religion.
The discussion is framed by 4 politically interested Democrats.
@UserUser45654 imagine what this conversation would sound like from outspoken non-belivers or evangelical Republicans.
I'm a 50 year old "cradle none" in the Southeastern US and happy about it.
I'm involved in two local atheist/agnostic groups. One is a mostly social group trying to foster community and one helps the homeless.
Being an non-believer doesn't have to mean lack of community.
All you've done is replace organized religion with something else
@@JoeyJoJoJr0 Yes. What is your point? My point is that organized religion or belief in a higher power is not not necessary to find community, purpose, or fulfillment.
Being isolated and without purpose is a choice.
I really thought they were saying cradle nun LOL
Once, as a disillusioned Christian, I thought the reformed faith was pretty close to what I thought Christianity ought to be; and then I asked the pastor what he thought of gay people. Now I'm an atheist.
I think that's mostly true. As a gay person, I'm not going to any church that thinks I am a sin.
homosexuality is a major wedge issue. For people like you and me, it is a dealbreaker: I don't come here to listen to bigotry. For others, they hold the opposite view: any church that accepts homosexuality, they're not the real deal.
One thing that blows me away is how Christian charity has basically evaporated. I grew up in a household where Christian charity was a big deal. I hated it at the time, but today, I am very grateful my mom forced me into volunteering. It taught me a lot. Still does.
But I look around my city today, and there are no more Christian charities anymore. The Catholics and Episcopalians are still in the mix, but protestants and evangelicals, it's like they just gave up. Over years, many programs and Christian non profits shut down. Some of them, the shut down in scandal, they were stealing from taxpayers or abusing their clients.
Worse, most of the Christians and Evangelicals in my personal life, they roll their eyes at charity. They think it's a disgusting waste of time.
You act like that long enough, and people notice. Not a good look for US Christian institutions.
Evangelicals tend to emphasise Faith over Works. Taken to extremes this can mean thinking charity is a waste of time. They are also big into Predestination v Free Will. Some folk are poor , well that's God's plan for them perhaps? Prosperity gospel.
@@wolfumzironically many charities that have gone away is because people now turn to the government for aid and assistance which has even more corruption and is poorly managed. When churches do it right it's through volunteer work and is non prophet done right out of the church. Meanwhile to turn to the government salaries are needed to be paid as well as office space and office supplies. Probably only 25% of the money intended for people in need actually reaches them.
@@daraorourke5798I don't think that's true at all. Evangelicals usually preach working for what you get but that everyone needs a hand up but not a crutch. Charities have been replaced by government who are filled with politicians who want to get reelected and don't mind giving people a crutch.
The largest charity in the world now, and throughout all of history, is the Catholic Church. In Chicago right now they are the only organization directly putting refugees into homes at any scale, for example.
When I was growing up, the most popular TV show was about friends hanging out in a coffee shop and then I spent my entire adult life being told any economic hardship I had was due to occasionally buying a latte from Starbucks. It's no wonder depression and loneliness are out of control.
I want to save your comment to quote. Very elegant way to describe some of the loneliness issue.
Democracy doesn't thrive on or off religion, it thrives off of different ideas and beliefs. Religion is a part of that, but it doesn't have to be.
Europe has been less religious for quite a bit longer than the US. Looking there to see what society does as it become less religious, would seem to be a better predictor.
Religion in Europe is less about belief and more about identity than in America. Wars between religions in Europe defined the continent for the last thousand years. When was the last religious war in North America? It wasn't as recent as The Troubles, as harrowing as the Holocaust, as devastating as the Thirty Years War, or as revolutionary as the French Revolution abolishing its church and sacking the Papalcy.
Europe as a continent is too heterogeneous and too wildly different from America to extrapolate much of use. Religious wars in Europe are even *what gave birth* to America. That's why it's so Protestant to this day (though Americans rarely care even about that distinction). Hell, the pilgrims were outcast zealots. America has always been a refuge to extremist religions, since that is how it was first populated.
I think the US needs to stop modeling itself after Europe and what they do. Too often I hear people make comments like "that's what they do in Europe" or "Europe has that". The US is its own country and shouldn't be following in other's footstep. Europe has as many or more problems as anyone else and it shouldn't be looked at an example of what we should be doing.
@@ScottCleve33 Many of the nations of northwestern Europe have measurably lower maternal and infant mortality rates, longer life expectancy, better health outcomes, lower wealth and income inequality, greater intergenerational earnings elasticity (a.k.a. upward mobility), and greater freedom of political choice than the United States. It is utterly daft of us *_not_* to emulate them.
@@bartolomeothesatyr I forgot to mention that the US is much larger. It would be virtually impossible to emulate what they do in a nation as large as the US.
Furthermore those countries still have their own problems that we do not.
Politics is my religion because it's the only thing that affects my life and freedoms every day.
This is interesting hearing the loss of trust in institutions driving people leaving church. I shifted from a politically libertarian to liberal / left at the same time I shifted from religiously fundamentalist to less / none.
So essentially gained faith in political institutions while losing faith in religious institutions.
Assuming you were Christian, that's probably because fundamental Christianity demands you give up on this world to gain the next one. Being an atheist means this is all we have, so we need to make the world we want ourselves.
That says a lot about both groups.
"gained faith in politics". Now that's a frightening statement regardless of which side of the aisle you stand on.
Having faith in political institutions is the exact same as having faith in religious institutions. Both of those institutions do not care about you
@@ScottCleve33 well since that isn’t what I said you may want to retry. I said political institutions.
That’s literally just trusting election workers to do their jobs properly. Trusting the Supreme Court even when I disagree with their opinion. Trusting the legislative process even if people will suffer in the interim. It’s about a belief in democracy.
It’s actually more frightening that a significant number of Americans seem to NOT have faith in democracy and political institutions.
I’m an agnostic, and I tried at one point going to Unitarian Church, because I was told it was based on Code of Conduct, not Code of Belief. Still felt too much like church. Couldn’t sustain it.
Absolutely agree. Now I am considering Quakers. But what I really want is simple community.
I don't prescribe to any particular church. I heard a plaster when I was younger talk about how it doesn't matter if you go to church every Sunday if you don't live a life of a Christian outside of church. I reversed that and figured it doesn't matter if I don't go to church on Sunday if I lived my life as a Christian outside of church.
Pickleball will replace it
To be fair--pickleball exists and has never driven genocide, to my knowledge.
Good. More indoor courts needed
The internet happened 20 years ago. Access to information exposes the fragility of religion based on beliefs.
"Nones" is a terrible piece of terminology when "None-of-the-above" is right there.
In terms of church and mental health, I've kind of found the opposite. I knew a lot of young christians who found a lot of solace and community through faith based organizations, and I am speaking as an atheist who did not go to those places and struggled through depression alone.
I think if your church is preaching fire and brimstone, that's as terrible as doom scrolling for your mental health, but when there are religiously based organizations that provide a sense of community, I think they tend to have a more positive impact (and so we see a lot of people who left the church, coming back).
Trying to explain that to people that already harbor a deep resentment for christianity is like trying to tell a conservative that biden didn't fuck up the economy.
the community part is what does that, you don't need all the baggage religion brings along
@@PlaystationMasterPS3 A community based in what? A community is only as good or helpful as what it is rooted in and what connects the people of the community.
As someone who realised i had no need for religion as a teenager in the 80s, which made life really hard and eventually led to moving overseas so I could be my authentic self, I'm so glad to see the rest of the country catch up!
How to know you've reached late stage capitalism? Preacher refers to the decline of the "religious marketplace." I think I may have found why religion is declining.
Sunday assembly? While I do like going to talks, it feels a bit odd to have it on Sunday morning. Just have it irregular, whenever, wherever, and I'll show up. Also, art museums, botanical gardens, game nights, discord servers, concerts, picnics, hiking, etc. These all easily become social activities and third places to those who enjoy them regularly.
Also, I both do not believe in deities and have to much baggage with religion as a queer person to ever reconsider such mystical hierarchy as church.
At the pub, like any civilised country.
"...Elks or the Moose or the Boy Scouts"
2 out of 3 of those - the Elks and the Boy Scouts - require belief in God in order to join.
This is super jarring. Why do we need communities based on religion or lack there of? Some of the panel seemed super pearl clutchy. When Galen asked "won't we just be like Europe" I remembered I was alive
As a non-religious person, I think a lot can be said about belonging to a group in which you all hold the same beliefs. Imaginings, in my point of view, but none the less. In addition, when a church does actually provide aid and support to its congregation or, better yet, is also consistently engaged in serving its entire community, a lot can be said about that, too. That belief system holds it all together.
Religiosity is primarily dictated by childhood indoctrination, lack of critical thinking training/skills, desperate need for a default community to socialize in, and in many well-documented cases - schizophrenia and related mental health issues.
Religion was the training wheels for humanity when human society was in its infancy - now we are growing up and letting go of those training-wheels, which literally slow us down once we learn how to bike/lead a responsible adult life!
In a world governed by scientific thinking in every inch, religion is now mere mythology - just like we no longer worship Athena and Apollo before a battle, we should no longer pray before a meal or attach credence to bronze-age religious rituals.
“Religion at its best…” …is not what we see in America. I think the most visible religion in America is Religion at its worst, which demands conformity and obedience without question. That is why people are moving away from it as a source of meaning. Once you’ve escaped from a cult, it’s hard to walk into any other “church” with any trust.
Good thing we have the left which totally doesn’t demand obedience.
@@NotANameistsorry the culture isn't comfortable with you saying the n word anymore man, I'm sure it's rough
@@feihceht656 lol, never said that word once and have zero desire to do so.
@@feihceht656Worst attempt at strawmanning ever.
I don't think any church preaches conformity without question. I belive the entire Bible is about answering the questions to why we should conform.
I left the church a LONG time ago, and my son is a "Cradle none" Strange way to look at things.
Democracy does not and has never required religiosity to thrive.
I can't imagine spending my time with people who hang out in church.
I can; it's... interesting.
As an atheist, it's interesting to talk with a community of converts: ie, people who have considered every religion, from Islam to Mormonism to Catholicism to Protestanism (which is the religion of the group I occasionally get dragged along to), and of course, Chinese Buddhism and ancestor worship. From a secular perspective, centuries of religious thought must have some wisdom in terms of depression and community support.
On the other hand, the moment people start ranting about theology and Israel, that's when I make excuses to walk out of the room. Because... yikes. Honestly, I don't think most of the people in the room like it when that one guy starts talking about theology, but nonetheless...
Methinks the average church has very little to do with religion, and that is where it does best. The moment the god-botherers start talking about god, that's when the trouble starts.
You mean that after thousands of years humans are finally figuring out that religion is a con game? Yikes! Being a professional god-botherer has been a great racket...it's indoor work and no heavy lifting. What will all those people do for a living if they can't frighten people out of their money with threats of hell and the anger of god(s)? Might have to actually get a real job.
Ew your resentment is leaning towards a state-atheist position it seems.
@@jonnyd9351 No, you can believe anything you want, even a fairytale if it helps you deal with your anxiety. The state has nothing to do with it, although religion is a good way to not pay taxes.
@@jackrice2770 How is religion a good way to not pay taxes? Out of the around 200 million US christian's how many are you insinuating end up in a tax-positive position because of religion?
@@jonnyd9351 Churches and associated operations are not taxed, including real estate. Of course, individuals pay taxes...at least, theoretically.
@@jackrice2770 But how is religion a good way to not pay taxes? Is a religious non-profit and different legally than a regular non-profit?
I agree that this entire conversation is angled from a point of pro-religious bias - the notion of religion simply being irrelevant to a substantial fraction of the population is one that American media has yet to learn to contend with even though the numbers reflect that reality. Notwithstanding that though , this is one of the most insightful discussions FTE has had in a long time, and a nice break from ultra-current events coverage.
SUGGESTION : If you guys at wish to survive the issues of accurate polling; you need to change by addressing the polling issues as to why polls are no longer something to consider, given the manipulations in your industry. Word on the street is: Polls are not to be trusted, especially in these times. I personally would like to see your team clean up the industry so that the reputation of polls can be relied on....presently "who is polled/and how" - has everyone pulling away from trusting polls.
I think politics in the US has become a sport with winners and losers, but that doesn't have to be the case. We could live in a world where we remember that we're all trying to make the world better and take the ideas of whoever has good ones. I think this polarization is very toxic, but I'm not sure religion helps fight that in any way
I practice martial arts. The dojo serves much the same function as churches do for their adherents in providing a social focus. I am much closer to my dojo mates than I ever was to my church mates from long ago. There is no room for hypocrisy when you train or spar! Your participation is clear for all to see (and feel).
I VERY much disagree with the idea that lack of religiosity is an issue for the democratic party. Its a much bigger problem for republicans who constantly showcase themselves as the party of Christianity. It's also such an odd thing to suggest that the democratic party MUST appeal to the muslims. Why? Because they're muslims and minority, the Dem part must appeal to them? It's a very weird thing to say. Muslims historically were republicans and present-day very conservative. In addition, even muslims in the US have the same issue of religious exodus as christians (albeit to a lower rate). That part really annoyed me.
Same here
The strength of the democratic party is its diversity. It's far more inclusive than the republican party.
The democrat party survives largely on contrasting themselves with the republican party. If the right says up the left says down. If they say in the left says out. It wasn't that long ago that democrats wanted a secure southern border and believed marriage was between a man and a woman. Now they can't even distinguish a man from a woman sunless they're told how they identify.
The democrat party gets themselves into trouble when they say things that agree with the right.
Muslims have historically not been Republican in the US, check voting trends in Dearborn MI, they have been part of the Democratic coalition for at least 2 decades.
I'm an atheist. I think we're a long way from a world where we form one side of the aisle and the various religions form the other half. All the atheists I talk to IRL support a world where everyone is free to be as religious or not as they want. We aren't trying to limit religion. I don't have anything against the Catholics leading the Democratic party because they've made it clear that they're okay with us existing. That's all I want, a world where we can all make our own decision on what to believe. I view religious protections as mostly protecting everyone not the dominant religion so I mostly support them (with some exceptions for things that are actually limiting non Christians)
They're looking at the unaffiliated completely wrong. America's religiously unaffiliated are still more religious than Europeans, many of them are not atheists. You don't need to affiliate with an organized denomination to be a believer.
The New Age movement was strong during the 90's.
Yeah but a lot of those people are weird conspiracy theorists anymore. Any kind of bullshit and magical thinking is probably bad for society
I really don’t care where they go. Just don’t push it on me or my life. Live and let live.
Where Will People Commune In A Godless America? " Their Homes" like they did before the very first Church was ever built. Also we are not a godless country we just do not allow religion to govern and for a very good reasons
Secular is the best way. Building community at the human level.
I think and hope we are done with the enforced conformity of religion.
There is no way in hell 30% of Americans attend church each week.
Here in suburban Indiana you still see many church parking lots full on Sunday mornings.
@@bartolomeothesatyr I have no doubts it is regionally true. I am just questioning the national statistics.
@@Chazzmatazz Per research by the Hartford Institute, there were roughly 350,000 religious congregations in the United States in 2010. I'm sure that number has dropped off a fair bit in the last fourteen years, but for comparison, in 2021 there were 13,438 McDonald's restaurants in the US. Given that there were enough church-goers in the US to sustain more than twenty-five times as many churches as McDonald's restaurants a mere fourteen years ago, that 30% number sounds pretty plausible to me.
Cicadas are coming this election year. Do they always come on election year? Can any impact on election patterns be detected?
Lifelong atheist and longtime antipartisan left-libertarian here. I cherish the American right to freedom of conscience implied by the Constitutional right to freedom of religion, and I would never condone the curtailment of the public exercise of sincere religious beliefs. That being said, I believe the decline of American religiosity is a generally positive development.
You are a good person then. A lot of people that have similar political views as you fall down the rabbit hole of resenting religion and wanting a state-atheist sort of society.
@@jonnyd9351 My thing is that I don't dig tyranny, whether that tyranny is government or private sector. I don't want to live under a dictatorship of the proletariat any more than I want to live under a dictatorship of private equity firms and major shareholders. Governments' primary purpose should be protecting the citizens' right to exercise their rights.
I respect your right to be an atheist however I've seen a clear decline in our country as we've moved away from religion.
As someone mentioned in an earlier post Christian's live their life to be able to move on to the afterlife and moving away from religion let's people live the life they want to live. It can be problematic if people don't believe there are consequences for what they do in their life.
Another drawback is that people have turned to the government in place of faith in a religion and the government is a poor substitute for religion.
@@ScottCleve33 You're talking to people who aren't only disagreeing on religious matters but also are ideologically inclined to disagree with everything you said. It's not any individuals fault but the typical atheist has bought into anti-christian bullshit that has been spread in recent years.
@@jonnyd9351 I know. I saw them say that this country is headed in a generally positive direction by moving away from Christianity and I needed to comment on that. I see the opposite. I can't see how anyone can look at the current trend of our nation and see it headed in a positive direction.
I'm not one to push my Christianity on others but this comment section is filled with comments pushing their atheism on others. If Christians did what atheists did we'd be accused of doing that very thing.
That pastor was really speaking with God helping him in this podcast. God was in his nose helping him speak his words. White, powdery, lines of God.
Y'all got any of that old-time religion?
Small minds require gods.
I think the point about passion being inversely correlated to expertise has a corollary: meme potential is also directly related to expertise.
It is one thing to be able to understand your work; it demonstrates a prerequisite of mastery to be able to make a joke about it. And for that reason, for a good number of years, the noncredibledefense subreddit was far more credible than the credibledefense subreddit (until fairly recently, I should say).
29:42 a sad reality some of us are trying to counteract.
No.... But no one has the right to DICTATE to me and my family how to worship. EVER
Bottom dad beta
Insulting people shows a lack of imagination.@@MultiCosmosis
And yet, the religious right has been gaining political power for decades.
No it hasn’t. If that was the case gay marriage wouldn’t have become broadly accepted in law. Divorce is now commonplace. There have been 65 million abortions. The religious right might be more politically active (though even that isn’t true) but they aren’t more powerful, they are less powerful.
I'm pretty sure that's called gerrymandering.
That's just what MSNBC has been telling you😂
No, that's not the case, it's been in decline since peaking during the Reagan era.
secularism will win in America. If the religious win everyone will have to follow their rules. That leaves secularists no choice but to win. All religious people will lose is their ability to force their way of live on the rest of us.
If secularists were all libertarian, that would be one thing. But they’re not, so we’re just gonna end up having to play by their stupid rules instead of the previous stupid rules. No thanks, buddy.
@@NotANameistso what's your alternative? If "no religion is the real religion" then why stay the same if it's the same anyways and the alternative gives us more freedom?
@@NotANameist libertarians have just become conservatives. Libertarians are more socially restrictive then democrats are.
A religious person would say exactly what you're saying expect replace religious with state atheist.
@@jonnyd9351 and this is the main issue with religious people. They consider not allowing them to force their rules on everyone as religious people being persecuted.
Most people's communities do not involve a church, even among those who attend church. I knew lots of religious people growing up, I was one, very few were involved socially in any context with anyone in their churches.
We need new things to unite over, universal things, and it needs to involve culture and other aspects of our daily lives. I don't think we have that yet, but I firmly believe we will, and I think it will be better than anything that came before.
45:35 this actually infuriates me a bit. "we're all in this together, love your neighbor as you love yourself, the golden rule" is the essence of my politics, and that can be my moral philosophy without needing to be religious; in fact, secular progressives embody these ideals far better than religious conservatives. the capitalistic "win at whatever cost" mentality he attributes to politics as a whole shows that he can't conceive at all of an economy/politics different from the right-wing ("reptilian, base self") version he claims is only inseparable from the tribal way people practice religion
Poor title. Churchless, maybe.
God is everywhere.
There is no god
Oh my God these comments are insipid.
Athiest Republican here there is a path forward on the right just need better wording.
I think Immigration will have a big say in what happens, I think rather America becoming less religious which correlates loosely with it being less white, it’ll become more religiously diverse, with religions such as Islam on the upward trajectory with converts, Birth rate and immigration but it’ll be not overnight and be a slow but steady growth.
Non religious will probably reach the 40s to slight majority of Americans at its peak, but those who comprise of the religious will be a diverse set of Americans and definitely won’t be exclusively white but rather the opposite and those of colour being the majority of religious Americans in the next 30 to 40 years.
A missing part of this discussion is that there are a LOT of irreligious people who are a part of tightly knit very involved communities, and I think it's incredibly short-sighted and ignorant to associate this disintegration of society's gathering with religiosity or a lack thereof.
It's about culture and time.
But we have seen that non religious americans feel more isolated, are more depressed, less fulfilled, and less happy. It is definitely something that needs to be discussed.
538 really went right wing. After 6sh I think its time to call it quits
Clickbait titles are indicative of less-than-informed content.
Politics and religion in today’s US is confusing to me. While I’m agnostic, now, I was raised in a religious household. That faith taught me compassion, understanding, love, and forgiveness. It would seem to me that religions should lean more Left in today’s political ideology than the Right. Whether it is the Rights’s intent or not, my perception is that the Right seems to stand for hate, punishment, greed, retribution and an unwillingness to try to understand others. For sure, the left has it’s extremest views that are unpalatable, but in general seems more aligned with religious principles. It’s a shame that extremism has taken over both parties.
Interesting comments. Your views on the right seem to show that you believe too much of what people say about the right.
As for your statements about religion being more left than right I think you look at it from a very narrow view that favors the left. However overall religion is far more in line with the right. Religion preaches morality and personal responsibility. With issues the left either do or has supported like abortions, transgender, reducing punishment for crimes or defunding the police and others it's easy to see religious people being more to the right.
The misrepresentation of the right of not being compassionate, hateful, greedy and others is just that. A misrepresentation. Is securing our southern border hateful? No. Every other country has secure borders. Every other entry point into the US is secured. This is not hateful. It's reasonable. Conservatives are among the most charitable. Conservatives are more likely to contribute to churches where liberals are more likely to agree to higher taxes and let the government help. Please don't let Ms and CNN shape your view of the right.
@@ScottCleve33 lol I am trying to understand. I suppose marginalizing others by stereotyping them is another religious principle that I don’t understand? I’m independent and consume political rhetoric from both sides, tho, since I forgot to mention and you forgot to ask ;) I vote the candidate, not the party. Fun fact, over 50% of the USA is not party affiliated.
As for my perceptions on this subject, they are greatly influenced by many of the loudest voices/organizations/personalities on the Right. It’s those voices and personalities I suppose I can’t reconcile with religion. I guess I was looking for thoughts on how those disparities get reconciled within the religious Right.
Oh, and the Left does care about immigration, crime, justice, war, drugs, religion, the constitution, etc. Neither party has a monopoly on these topics, just different approaches. Making issues binary just makes it that much harder to find solutions, because it prevents both parties from listening and working together.
@@unclelurk1556 sorry for the assumption that you're on the left but in general people who have uninformed opinion on the right as you did come from the left or far left who watch broadcasts like MSNBC and CNN. Few people who actually take the time to get to know and understand the right come to the conclusion that did.
I don't think I suggested that the left doesn't care about the border I stated that the rights view on the border is wrongly attributed to hate. It's become clear that the left also cares about the border with their growing tired with the current policies. The left can be as diverse as the right however the democrat party itself has become anything but diverse and it's solution to the border crisis has become non existent.
@@ScottCleve33 While I can debate our personal perceptions on political policies regarding immigration, this post was never about a specific political issue. Rather, I revert to my perception (on most political issues) that the Rights most vocal leaders and organizations choose rhetoric that is hateful and vengeful. This is my disconnect between the party’s chosen leaders and religion, I guess, and what is confusing to me. I’m really not here to sway anyone’s point of view on policies. Since there probably isn’t really an answer that is meaningful to me, I’ll beg off. Thank you for your efforts and patience 🙏
The pastor in this was kind of unhinged. I cite 33:23 as evidence of this. I don't understand why people think this; No one is talking about taking away people's freedom to religion. What we are talking about is limiting religions' ability to oppress others.
33:42 Also, I don't believe this to be the case. No one irreligious I know is clamoring to find "their" deity. I wonder if he thinks the irreligious just go about their days yearning to be religious.
irreligious people are on average less fulfilled and that presumably leads to more 'searching' for a greater purpose. Obviously your mileage may vary
The rise in Agnostic as opposed to the stagnation of Atheism is because Reddit ruined Atheism. It is such a toxic label.
Online atheism was taken over by marxist anti-theists that turned it into something disgusting.
You want to meet some really nice people? You want to commune? Please head on over to your county's Democratic Party headquarters. Offer your time, talents, enthusiasm, encouragement, friendship, and support to help Democrats win elections. Election winners of the majority party make the laws, determine the punishments, set the tax brackets, and shape the judiciary. Help Democrats win. Offer to head up your precinct to get out the vote in your neighborhood. We can do this.
I'm a devout Christian who participates in local Democratic Party meetings 😊
This country was intentionally supposed to be godless tbh. Faith surpasses the physical realm. It was never of the world, it was above it and therefore it’s not bound by the same rules. People who try to make government a point of faith are walking towards a dead end, whether or not it started from a Protestant viewpoint. What else does one expect from a culture based on capitalism and individualism? Where is God (of any faith) in those things? It’s why I keep my faith to God separate from government since it’s oil and water. Besides, people migrated here to steal land and made it a foundational point to base it for religious freedom to keep this country that way. It was over long before this issue began. Vote for who you believe is best fit to run this country and leave it at that.
That's actually not true. The US, colonies at the time, we're a haven for people who wanted to practice their religion freely. From it's beginning it was intended to be a religious nation. And yet somehow abortion which isn't mentioned in the constitution or any other document, is somehow a right but religion, mentioned many times in the founders documents, is not?
Godless? No. No state sponsored and mandatory religion? Yes.
Hi
I'm pagan. Which god?
lol
The more the world subtracts from jehovah and christ the more you will see evil grow.
Many religious institutions stray from the Truth and mislead people by giving them bad impressions from their own false interpretations. The Truth is in the Bible and many institutions stray from the main message, Salvation. “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life” John 3:16. Jesus died and resurrected so all who believe can have their sins forgiven. Where man fails, Jesus does NOT. The Word of God is living and will not lead you astray, so be wary of these false teachings and stick close to the Word of God.
They could hide in caves if they want to pray.
Leaving traditional religion for the cult of the left isn’t an upgrade. I’m not sure how much of a downgrade it is, but it sure isn’t an upgrade.
traditional religion is the cult. I don’t bow down to anyone. Personal freedom will prevail. As millennials and gen Z age, the role of religion will continue to decline. Enjoy your relevance while it lasts!
Im not sure what you think the left is but I find it to be a wide range of people and views. Some religious, some not. I do not see the left as a negative. I think 24 hr tv exaggerates politics. There are outliers of course who may have very strong beliefs but atleast the people I know who are left are open, caring and easy going. To each their own mentality.
How do you define a cult?
@@wcoasttiggerI see the opposite. On the left people believe what they're told to believe. MAGA is much the same. There are still some moderates on both sides but the left is pushing out anyone who's not lock step with the rest of the party. On the right the MAGA crowd is trying to take over the right. However in 20 years Trump will probably be dead and it's unlikely he'll have a lasting impression on the republican party. However the lefts problem is systemic and is larger than any one person. They'll be just as bad or worse in 20 years.
I, a theologically conservative Christian and registered Democrat, sincerely request that you explain further what you mean
What an inane topic. This has MAGA fingerprints all over it.
God is a lie