The divorce of Morgan and the jeweler, combined with the animosity between Misty and Morgan, taught Dahlia that all that matters in life is money and power. She observed her family's destruction over petty squabbles, and I think this became a seed of bitterness that grew and grew and grew until she became a monster. That awful comment she makes in court about "The fewer children there are, the more money there is to go around, right?", captures the mindset she learned. She probably heard him complain about money day after day after day and probably internalized this mindset of children being no more than a financial burden, including Dahlia herself. She clearly does not believe in love, only viewing it as a tool people use to get what they want. Like a lot of narcissists, she puffs herself up and downright deludes herself to hide the feelings of inadequacy she experiences. She knew she meant nothing to her parents, or to anyone really, and she never had the inner strength to overcome that. Instead she gave in to her base instincts and started lashing out. And it's odd that of all the failed marriages and divorces that occur in Kurain, the only child from one of these marriages who spends her entire childhood away from the village or an affiliated temple is Dahlia. Mia, Maya, and Pearl were all raised in the village. Iris was returned to the temple at some point as a child, but Dahlia remained in her father's custody. Of course she'd turn out VERY different from the other four. Who is the living embodiment of the family feud that destroyed her parents' marriage? Mia. When they first meet in court, Dahlia recognizes Mia by name, but Mia does not recognize her, even though Mia is 4-5 years older than Dahlia, and the birth of Dahlia and Iris would have been noted in the village. Yet another familial snub, even if Mia did not intend it. I think even before the whole Fawles case, Dahlia hated and envied Mia. She had what Dahlia didn't, a mostly loving relationship with her family. That had to make Dahlia furious. The whole thing about Dahlia "convincing" her dad to send Iris to the temple is yet another example of people in her life not giving a damn about her and not making any effort to guide her into adulthood. Her father was the adult, Dahlia was a child. The right thing to do was to actually parent her, but instead he breaks her family even further, separating her from her twin which likely had massive psychological consequences down the line. And another thing, how do we know Dahlia actually lost the diamond as opposed to hiding it in the forest or a safety deposit box? The protagonists simply assert that she lost it, but nobody ever really confirms that. If she didn't steal it for money, she wouldn't sell it. Selling it would also have been dangerous as it would have created a paper trail connecting her to the ransom. So would she have spun a tale to keep Valerie from asking too many questions?But she would absolutely know where it was. It was her finally hitting one of these people who had helped make her the bitter sociopath she was where it hurt them the most, using her father's own greed against him. But knowing that he really loved the diamond more than her had to hurt, even for a damaged individual like her. And then this whole thing with Terry and Valerie comes up, and the coverup of the ransom plot just gets bigger and bloodier because that scheme was the ONE thing in her life that she had "won". It's really kinda sad. She needed a hug and a therapist but nobody cared enough to give her one.
Objection. Dahlia showed her ruthless nature since she was a small child. Iris is super naieve when she said that dahlia was always strong and never complained about anything and being independant. Morgan shares the same traits. It was a 5 year old dahlia who convinced him to ditch iris. Iris NEVER showed any signs of evil before she got kicked out by dahlia and her father so the notion of its because of her parents they became evil is not true, its a choice. Iris is extremly naieve because she looks up to dahlia for what she mistakenly sees as a powerful independant person which in actuality was a stone cold ruthless child, just like her mother.
I think it makes sense Mia was so harsh on Dahlia even in beginnings, because Dahlia killed her sister in cold blood. Mia basically raised Maya so I can see why this struck a cord.
This has to be fate. I legit started a replay of T&T yesterday and was instantly reminded of the absolute threat this girl posed. And today you post this. I've always thought there was more to her and Iris (which might just be my favorite character dynamic in the OG trilogy), so watching something like this is cathartic at least.
This definitely has to be fate because I just started looking at comments for this video after coming back home and it looks like you just commented. I never used to be a huge fan of Dahlia and Iris so my replay of T&T really helped me appreciate them a lot. Hope you have fun with your replay as much as I did!
Very interesting! I personally don't believe in determinism as a hard truth. Does your past and environment influence who you become? Absolutely. Are some people born with more favorable circunstances than others, therefore having a much easier and potentially happier life? Of course, sadly. However, it's not like we, as people, are immutable results of our past circunstances, because we are not algorithms or equations. As people, we can think, we can feel, we can analyze our surroundings, we can pursue information, we can change, we can grow. What I'm saying is not that an unprivileged person can always move towards a comfortable and happy destiny if they "try hard enough", of course not. Rather, I'm saying that someone's personality and character is not 100% unchangeable, and that despite being heavily influenced by our backgrounds, as humans we are still at least ABLE to make choices outside of our backgrounds, ABLE to question the reality and "truths" that we know. Again, I'm not saying that this can ALWAYS happen, just that there are possibilities. Luck itself is not something that someone will always have 100% of the time, or never have 100% of the time. There is always some degree of unpredictability in life. About Dahlia, I also like her as a villain a lot, her and Mia are my favorite parts of T&T. I'm fine with some Ace Attorney villains being "just evil", even though they will always have at least some amount of depth that we can think about, like Dahlia's backstory. Now, I do believe that there is a heavy "destiny" theme in T&T's main plot, and that it was intentional. The characters were all very deeply connected in their backstories: all the Feys, Phoenix, Edgeworth, Godot... and I think it was a bit too much. I personally don't like that the game pulled out not only one, but TWO long lost Fey cousins, who were connected to so many characters all along. It's one of the reasons I don't like Bridge to the Turnabout very much, but that's just me.
Yes, people are very complex. For me determinism makes more sense but I live my life believing I having free will. Fair enough for not liking how too many characters are all connected. This is probably the game where it all starts feeling too coincidental
What's cool about Dahlia is you can kinda make her more sympatetic without conflicting with canon much. Like what if she "get rid of" Iris because she knew she would get a better life? Probably not, but I feel Dahlia caring about Iris even tho she would personally deny it makes her better villian and more than a "pure evil", but more of a totally broken and lost individual. I think she could live a decent life if she grew up in the temple, even though she would probably still be a emotionaly cold person. Don't get me wrong, I still love to hate her, but I think it's very interesting to think about her backstory and think how did get to a point of being a killer. I don't get that feeling from other Ace Attorney Trilogy villians or other (video) villiains in general. That question if she really is rotten to the core or she's just pretending to be emotionaly cold. That's why Dahlia is one of my favourite video game villians, you know she's beyond saving but you also want to know how did she got to that point
I still prefere Investigations 2's final boss over Dahlia (I'm hoping that just like Dahlia they do get a video dedicated to themselves). Spoilers from here on out so no scrolling down if don't want to get spoiled. . . . . . . . . . ... .. . . . . ... . . . . . . . . Simon Keyes is 1 of those antagonists who can be viewed as the main protagonist in his own story. At 6 years old, Keyes got backstabed by his best friend Horace and - along with him - almost froze to death, because Horace locked the both of them inside Doover's car. Yes, Doover did coerce Horace into trapping himself and Keyes into set car so that Doover could blackmail Dane, but I'm pretty sure that everyone would get extremely furious at their best friend if they almost tried to get them killed. Lucky for both Keyes and Horace, Dogen showed up in the nick of time and brought them to the nearest hospital. Unfortunately, Keyes's memories got all warped up, which resulted in him believing that Doover was his dad and that Horace was ordered by Dane to get rid of him so he could murder Doover (Yes I know that for the longest time Keyes didn't know that Dane was Doover's killer, but plz stick with me here). On top of that, Horace likely completely forgot about trapping himself and Keyes inside Doover's car and so can't feel guilty for what happened. I mean imagin how much more pissed you would get after learning that your best friend completely forgot that they backstabed you and almost got you killed? Now on top of all that, because Horace's dad is dead and Keyes's dad disowned him, both of them are sent to an orphanage that was run by a woman who would later be bribed by the chief prosecuter into helping him and 2 other people into killing the leader of another country so that set leader's body double can replace him. I mean sure, if Keyes just went to bed like all of the other kids then he wouldn't have bare wittness to such a conspiracy onfolding right in front of him. Besides, once he found out that Dogen was involved and that he was also get backstabed he of course would repay him the favor by rescuing him before then submitting evidence in order to expose the identity of the other conspiriters (yes I know that Keyes's drawing directly implacates Dogen as Huang's killer, however Dogen was already going into hiding and onlike the other conspiriters Dogen isn't a public figure who is in a high position of power and so he doesn't need to hide in plain sight in order function). However misfortune strikes Keyes again as Blaise was able to get his hands on set drawing and hid it, before then ordering Roland to torture Keyes from days on end, which then resulted in Keyes being forced to flee his last home and go on the run. Now imagin that in your childhood, you were backstabed, almost killed, completely sank to rock bottem through no fault, feeling completely alone and isolated, being made to feel that you've lost everything and on top of that being made to believe that the people who are responsible for your suffering will never face. I mean, I'm pretty sure that everyone in that situation would snap, resulting in them adopting a warped sence of morality in the process. And guess what, Keyes revenge plan involving making himself look like nothing while the people he's manipulating by making them think that they're the protagonists actually works. Yeah, he never intented to be found out, but by then he'd already won.
I2 boss definitely has an interesting story but if I can fit it into my case review, then I'll just put it in there. The reason why I made Dahlia's a seperate video is because this Bridge to the Turnabout video is looking extremely long
Omg same, after replaying, he's honestly my favorite villain. Investigations 2 is an absolute gem, and I admired his character. Out of all the main villains, he seemed to be the most sympathetic one. Yes, he has done bad things and at worst, he kidnapped Kay and John, and set up Jill. I won't defend it, but he does more "good" than "bad." I mean the three people who tormented him are terrible. His plan is incredibly smart. Sending two despicable people to jail and eliminating the third one (this can be considered self-defense considering the body double DID try to kill him). Even Edgy realizes that he's also a victim. I honestly did feel pretty sad. Aside, his breakdown is awesome. It does combine some sadness and very comedic moments. (I think him getting attacked by birds reference to Acro). I love Simon Keyes a lot, amazing character.
@@HerlockSholmesREAL when I played AAI2 and got to the breakdown, I actually started tearing up, because I really started feel bad for him as could likely be sent to the same prison as Blaise. But then I just started laugh uncontrolibly when the animals all rebaled and started to wail on him. Then I started feel really scared when Shelly showed and almost gutted him. Thank god Dogen showed up. I'm sure to this very day Keyes is still in prison repenting, but atleast he has Dogen to protect him from who wants to take advantage of him
Yes For me they are best Villain in the entire series So complex, their backstory is interesting and well executed And I love that that there are some vague hints to him being the mastermind
Dahlia and Morgan always stood out to me as being so much more evil than all the other villains in the series so far. They were willing to kill so many people... for what really? To that point in the series, all of the villains had quite neatly explained motives and Dahlia appears to be evil just for the sake of it. Never was a big fan of Bridge to Turnabout, i think it is trying to resolve too many plots at once and it's hard to follow, what is happening and why, thus I never really understood, what were Dahlia's motivations.
I thought they're motives were well explained. For Morgan, she feels inferior because she is the elder sister with barely any spiritual power which caused her to become the branch family. She wants to reclaim the main family position and thus, wants to get rid of Maya. For Dahlia, she grew up with two horrible parents that were power hungry. Because of her toxic environment, Dahlia became more cruel as time went on. Her first plan was to take the $2 million jewel and keep it for herself as both revenge against her father and monetary gain. Her killings of Valerie, Doug and Terry were all coverups for what she did. Essentially, it was just a cycle of being scared of getting caught and killing people because of it. Her final attempted murder of killing Maya is motivated by getting revenge on Mia. I guess Dahlia's motives are a lot more complicated than other villains lol
@@DerpyHiroI really like the fact that her motive is somewhat of a mystery and is open for interpretation. So you can make her almost a tragic villian or a monster from the beggining, depending on your point of view
You’re right nobody is born a killer. She never even wanted to be. Her greed comes from her power hungry parents and when she saw her chance to escape by stealing the diamond she took it at the expense of terrys freedom and life. She never wanted to kill anybody she just wanted some control in her life and when her step sister decided to come clean dahlia realized the life she worked and risked her life to build could be wiped away if she does so she knew the only way to keep control is to silence her step sister to be forever silenced. She couldn’t stop there she had to make sure Terry wouldn’t talk either so she influenced him into drinking the poison, she knew Diego would be on her ass and eventually catch her so she had to get rid of him too with poison from her ex boyfriend. She would’ve gotten away with it if she didn’t worry so much about the necklace she hid by giving it to pheonix but she couldn’t help herself and you know what happens from there
Very interesting video And determinism thing is what I thought for a while You are not the only one who connect determinism with Dahlia-and this made like her even more However I think that final villain from Miles Investigations 2 is better than her(I find them more interesting) Dahlia for me is the 2nd best final Villain Im guessing that for you Dahlia is the 1st Just out of curiosity Will you make a video dedicated to this Villain?
Ngl I thought Dollie was evil just for the sake of evil, but I saw your comment and it does make some sense. I think she's probably my top 5 favorite villain, with Investigations 2 villain being my absolute favorite. She is a part of the "love to hate" characters. 😅
I think that you misunderstood the concept of the sword. It means that everyone's life ends with death, it doesn't matter if you are a good person or a bad person, whatever you decide to do with your life will end in the same way. Is not abouy destiny
Was looking for this comment. I thought the symbolism was pretty unmistakable with the sword being buried in a corpse, so the misrepresentation in the video seemed pretty intentional to me.
4:09 Tbh, it was Dahlia who convinced her father to leave Iris there in the first place (I feel was the only good/good choice Dahlia ever did in her life, without realising it). Edit: 4:50 Glad you mentioned it. 👍 And tbh, it shows Dahlia was a manipulator as she said from when she was born and only cared for herself, so Iris being swapped with Dahlia wouldn't have made them switch roles. I'd imagine Dahlia turning against and manipulating Bikini and Iris would be upset emotionally from her father (in other words, a much more worse scenario for Iris and maybe making her consider to follow in Dahlia's footsteps and/or even go to her and they start working together with no weak bonds. Also 7:53 Jesus lol.
Your take on determinism is pretty interesting in this story. Morgan and Dahlia lacked spiritual power and their lives were terrible because of it, making them evil. But I don't think having power = lucky. Yes, the Fey's with power had good childhoods while those without didn't. Maya passed absolutely traumatic events (almost killed, accused of murder) because of her power. And Iris managed to be good without the need of power (meaning things can change).
Determinism seems more likely to me, however believing in free choice will motivate you to improve your life and that of those around you. The realist in me believes in Determinism, my sense of motivation in free choice. I'd like to think that's the best compromise I can find. Good thing Quantum Mechanics exist, as they're pretty much the only thing standing between us and a world scientifically proven to be deterministic. As far as I'm aware at least.
Personally I just prefer ignoring determinism. I think it's just a stupid idea in every single way imaginable to pin the blame on fate for my own situation. I'd rather blame myself for not being good enough, and that's it.
The philosophy went pretty out of nowhere but I agree 100%, determinism just makes more sense the most you think about it... not that is very important to society anyway. It just helps to realize every action will be meaningful.
All I have to say is that the games made Dahlia so dirty for literally no reason, of course, Dahlia is evil, but once I saw a reddit post analysis about her, I noticed she is an understandable character despite being evil, I wish I could be able to leave the link of the post here, sadly I can't... Nevermind, you mentioned the post I was talking about! 😂
Wow. You really lost me at the end. To the point I couldn't even finish the video. That is just a bunch of rubbish. Nothing is pre-determined. If that was the case, everyone who grow up in trash environments never would have gotten anywhere. "Luck" has nothing to do with anything. Some people start with less than nothing and then become successful. People who have everything turn into vicious monsters or lose it all and end up with nothing. Each person has a choice and each person controls what they are. Not just your environment and DEFINITELY not because of some insane BS like "luck." What you say is rooted in nihilistic thinking and the only thing that breeds is destructive envy, and never taking any responsibility for your own actions, allowing that person to make an excuse on living in sloth or destructive behavior because it is easier to do than take any responsibility for what they do. It is always something or someone else's fault. How about no.
Of course no one would like determinism to be the truth and I think living with the mindset that determinism is real can be very destructive as you said. But I truly think everything being pre-determined is a possibility that people do not want to accept. Yes some people who grew up in trash environments become successful but was there genetic components that lead to that success? Was there some external factor such as person or an event that really motivated or changed them for the better? Likewise some people that may have grew up in better environments may have later encountered external factors that hurt them in the long run. Maybe an easier way to understand my point of view is thinking about what a choice is. Whenever someone makes a choice, what is it that influences their decision? I would think it's a combination of their past experiences and genetics. I can't really think of anything else that would influence a choice you have to make. If decisions are made of these factors, then it's hard to say people have free will. Everyone starts out as a baby with genetics being what makes everyone different. Then we all become more different as we start to experience things in our lives. Of course as babies, we can't really control any of this. The people who raise us and the people who are around us are controlling everything around our lives. By the time we are 1 or 2 years old, we are able to speak a little bit and make our own choices based on our past experiences and genetics. And as we make more decisions, it's just a pile of choices that are influenced by our past that we had no control over. If the concept sounds illogical that's fine because it's a hard topic to discuss. I'm not sure how to explain it clearly but Bridge to the Turnabout reminded me a lot about determinism. I'd urge you to go watch the opening cutscene of the case. It says "though the branches appear to be infinite" which is other words means "though our choices appear to be infinite", "like our destinies the sword comes to but one end." This is why I feel like Bridge to the Turnabout might be saying that we all have a destiny that cannot be changed. And even within the case Mia talks about how it's fate that she met Dahlia and beats her every single time. But as I said at the end of the video, don't live your life believing everything is predetermined because that mindset won't help at all
Yeah, thinking people can be "genetically evil" has some pretty dangerous implications and reminds me of an ideology I don't think anyone of us want to be associated with.
@@DerpyHiro Again. People who have nothing can become successful. Even if they had abusive or non-existent parents. People in that same situation ends up with a different outcome. There are endless different outcomes for each and every individual. The "destiny" in the beginning of the case they are talking about has nothing to do with determinism. It has to do with these specific people finally finishing what was started in the past. They are on a collision course. There is nothing predetermined about their choices or actions. The choices they made was ALWAYS going to end in this way because of those said choices. So, if everything it determined by "luck" or "environment" there would be no crossover at all. People in loving households becoming murderous sociopaths would never happen. People in abusive households becoming successful and stable members of society would never happen. But they DO happen. All the time. How can you explain that away with "luck" or "predetermined" nonsense? That is impossible to judge. Using that as an excuse is just giving people an excuse to never try and even bother bettering themselves or their situations. They can just stew in envy and say "I wasn't lucky enough." Despite people starting with NOTHING and ending as SOMETHING. Even indentured servants became something. Many former slaves became something. Is that due to luck? Is it lucky to be forced into servitude now? Or is it due to the choices they made after the fact? The answer is clear as day to me.
@@orga7777 While I get your point and agree to some extent, the whole "you can do anything if you just work hard enough" thing is neoliberal BS. YES, some people are able to significantly better their circumstances but statistically, most aren't because the way our economy and system work. There are only so many opportunities. And of those people who have these success stories, how many of them are women, disabled, people of colour, queer etc.? We cannot pretend like there's equal ground to start on and some people, no matter how hard they work, how smart they are, will ever have those opportunities. That doesn't mean that they should just give up, I just believe we need to stick together and advocate for change that benefits everyone and not celebrate a minority who has more luck. I also think your slavery example is quite ignorant. Systemic racism is still a thing and impacts people in every area of their lives and that should be focused on, not blaming people that they're supposedly not working hard enough. I'm a social worker and a career coach and I see it everyday, that some of the smartest, most hard working women, some with perfect CVs, will not get a single invite to a job interview after applying, most likely because they are immigrants and mothers. We won't give up, that's for sure but how are they supposed to work any harder than they already are?
The divorce of Morgan and the jeweler, combined with the animosity between Misty and Morgan, taught Dahlia that all that matters in life is money and power. She observed her family's destruction over petty squabbles, and I think this became a seed of bitterness that grew and grew and grew until she became a monster. That awful comment she makes in court about "The fewer children there are, the more money there is to go around, right?", captures the mindset she learned. She probably heard him complain about money day after day after day and probably internalized this mindset of children being no more than a financial burden, including Dahlia herself. She clearly does not believe in love, only viewing it as a tool people use to get what they want.
Like a lot of narcissists, she puffs herself up and downright deludes herself to hide the feelings of inadequacy she experiences. She knew she meant nothing to her parents, or to anyone really, and she never had the inner strength to overcome that. Instead she gave in to her base instincts and started lashing out.
And it's odd that of all the failed marriages and divorces that occur in Kurain, the only child from one of these marriages who spends her entire childhood away from the village or an affiliated temple is Dahlia. Mia, Maya, and Pearl were all raised in the village. Iris was returned to the temple at some point as a child, but Dahlia remained in her father's custody. Of course she'd turn out VERY different from the other four.
Who is the living embodiment of the family feud that destroyed her parents' marriage? Mia. When they first meet in court, Dahlia recognizes Mia by name, but Mia does not recognize her, even though Mia is 4-5 years older than Dahlia, and the birth of Dahlia and Iris would have been noted in the village. Yet another familial snub, even if Mia did not intend it. I think even before the whole Fawles case, Dahlia hated and envied Mia. She had what Dahlia didn't, a mostly loving relationship with her family. That had to make Dahlia furious.
The whole thing about Dahlia "convincing" her dad to send Iris to the temple is yet another example of people in her life not giving a damn about her and not making any effort to guide her into adulthood. Her father was the adult, Dahlia was a child. The right thing to do was to actually parent her, but instead he breaks her family even further, separating her from her twin which likely had massive psychological consequences down the line.
And another thing, how do we know Dahlia actually lost the diamond as opposed to hiding it in the forest or a safety deposit box? The protagonists simply assert that she lost it, but nobody ever really confirms that. If she didn't steal it for money, she wouldn't sell it. Selling it would also have been dangerous as it would have created a paper trail connecting her to the ransom. So would she have spun a tale to keep Valerie from asking too many questions?But she would absolutely know where it was. It was her finally hitting one of these people who had helped make her the bitter sociopath she was where it hurt them the most, using her father's own greed against him. But knowing that he really loved the diamond more than her had to hurt, even for a damaged individual like her. And then this whole thing with Terry and Valerie comes up, and the coverup of the ransom plot just gets bigger and bloodier because that scheme was the ONE thing in her life that she had "won".
It's really kinda sad. She needed a hug and a therapist but nobody cared enough to give her one.
Couldn't have said it better myself
love this comment
What a great comment! I still love to hate her but feel sorry for what she become. Like what went wrong?
Objection.
Dahlia showed her ruthless nature since she was a small child.
Iris is super naieve when she said that dahlia was always strong and never complained about anything and being independant. Morgan shares the same traits.
It was a 5 year old dahlia who convinced him to ditch iris.
Iris NEVER showed any signs of evil before she got kicked out by dahlia and her father so the notion of its because of her parents they became evil is not true, its a choice.
Iris is extremly naieve because she looks up to dahlia for what she mistakenly sees as a powerful independant person which in actuality was a stone cold ruthless child, just like her mother.
I think it makes sense Mia was so harsh on Dahlia even in beginnings, because Dahlia killed her sister in cold blood. Mia basically raised Maya so I can see why this struck a cord.
This has to be fate. I legit started a replay of T&T yesterday and was instantly reminded of the absolute threat this girl posed. And today you post this.
I've always thought there was more to her and Iris (which might just be my favorite character dynamic in the OG trilogy), so watching something like this is cathartic at least.
This definitely has to be fate because I just started looking at comments for this video after coming back home and it looks like you just commented. I never used to be a huge fan of Dahlia and Iris so my replay of T&T really helped me appreciate them a lot. Hope you have fun with your replay as much as I did!
i could never tell if i loved or hated dahlia lol
For me, it's both.
I love to hate her, hate to love her, and she's a psychopathic manipulator. 100% Daddy issues.
Very interesting!
I personally don't believe in determinism as a hard truth. Does your past and environment influence who you become? Absolutely. Are some people born with more favorable circunstances than others, therefore having a much easier and potentially happier life? Of course, sadly. However, it's not like we, as people, are immutable results of our past circunstances, because we are not algorithms or equations. As people, we can think, we can feel, we can analyze our surroundings, we can pursue information, we can change, we can grow. What I'm saying is not that an unprivileged person can always move towards a comfortable and happy destiny if they "try hard enough", of course not. Rather, I'm saying that someone's personality and character is not 100% unchangeable, and that despite being heavily influenced by our backgrounds, as humans we are still at least ABLE to make choices outside of our backgrounds, ABLE to question the reality and "truths" that we know. Again, I'm not saying that this can ALWAYS happen, just that there are possibilities. Luck itself is not something that someone will always have 100% of the time, or never have 100% of the time.
There is always some degree of unpredictability in life.
About Dahlia, I also like her as a villain a lot, her and Mia are my favorite parts of T&T. I'm fine with some Ace Attorney villains being "just evil", even though they will always have at least some amount of depth that we can think about, like Dahlia's backstory. Now, I do believe that there is a heavy "destiny" theme in T&T's main plot, and that it was intentional. The characters were all very deeply connected in their backstories: all the Feys, Phoenix, Edgeworth, Godot... and I think it was a bit too much. I personally don't like that the game pulled out not only one, but TWO long lost Fey cousins, who were connected to so many characters all along. It's one of the reasons I don't like Bridge to the Turnabout very much, but that's just me.
Yes, people are very complex. For me determinism makes more sense but I live my life believing I having free will. Fair enough for not liking how too many characters are all connected. This is probably the game where it all starts feeling too coincidental
What's cool about Dahlia is you can kinda make her more sympatetic without conflicting with canon much. Like what if she "get rid of" Iris because she knew she would get a better life? Probably not, but I feel Dahlia caring about Iris even tho she would personally deny it makes her better villian and more than a "pure evil", but more of a totally broken and lost individual. I think she could live a decent life if she grew up in the temple, even though she would probably still be a emotionaly cold person.
Don't get me wrong, I still love to hate her, but I think it's very interesting to think about her backstory and think how did get to a point of being a killer. I don't get that feeling from other Ace Attorney Trilogy villians or other (video) villiains in general. That question if she really is rotten to the core or she's just pretending to be emotionaly cold. That's why Dahlia is one of my favourite video game villians, you know she's beyond saving but you also want to know how did she got to that point
I still prefere Investigations 2's final boss over Dahlia (I'm hoping that just like Dahlia they do get a video dedicated to themselves). Spoilers from here on out so no scrolling down if don't want to get spoiled.
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Simon Keyes is 1 of those antagonists who can be viewed as the main protagonist in his own story. At 6 years old, Keyes got backstabed by his best friend Horace and - along with him - almost froze to death, because Horace locked the both of them inside Doover's car. Yes, Doover did coerce Horace into trapping himself and Keyes into set car so that Doover could blackmail Dane, but I'm pretty sure that everyone would get extremely furious at their best friend if they almost tried to get them killed.
Lucky for both Keyes and Horace, Dogen showed up in the nick of time and brought them to the nearest hospital. Unfortunately, Keyes's memories got all warped up, which resulted in him believing that Doover was his dad and that Horace was ordered by Dane to get rid of him so he could murder Doover (Yes I know that for the longest time Keyes didn't know that Dane was Doover's killer, but plz stick with me here). On top of that, Horace likely completely forgot about trapping himself and Keyes inside Doover's car and so can't feel guilty for what happened. I mean imagin how much more pissed you would get after learning that your best friend completely forgot that they backstabed you and almost got you killed?
Now on top of all that, because Horace's dad is dead and Keyes's dad disowned him, both of them are sent to an orphanage that was run by a woman who would later be bribed by the chief prosecuter into helping him and 2 other people into killing the leader of another country so that set leader's body double can replace him. I mean sure, if Keyes just went to bed like all of the other kids then he wouldn't have bare wittness to such a conspiracy onfolding right in front of him. Besides, once he found out that Dogen was involved and that he was also get backstabed he of course would repay him the favor by rescuing him before then submitting evidence in order to expose the identity of the other conspiriters (yes I know that Keyes's drawing directly implacates Dogen as Huang's killer, however Dogen was already going into hiding and onlike the other conspiriters Dogen isn't a public figure who is in a high position of power and so he doesn't need to hide in plain sight in order function). However misfortune strikes Keyes again as Blaise was able to get his hands on set drawing and hid it, before then ordering Roland to torture Keyes from days on end, which then resulted in Keyes being forced to flee his last home and go on the run.
Now imagin that in your childhood, you were backstabed, almost killed, completely sank to rock bottem through no fault, feeling completely alone and isolated, being made to feel that you've lost everything and on top of that being made to believe that the people who are responsible for your suffering will never face. I mean, I'm pretty sure that everyone in that situation would snap, resulting in them adopting a warped sence of morality in the process.
And guess what, Keyes revenge plan involving making himself look like nothing while the people he's manipulating by making them think that they're the protagonists actually works. Yeah, he never intented to be found out, but by then he'd already won.
I2 boss definitely has an interesting story but if I can fit it into my case review, then I'll just put it in there. The reason why I made Dahlia's a seperate video is because this Bridge to the Turnabout video is looking extremely long
@@DerpyHiro will it be the longest video that you'll post to this channel? Will it be an hour long?
Omg same, after replaying, he's honestly my favorite villain. Investigations 2 is an absolute gem, and I admired his character. Out of all the main villains, he seemed to be the most sympathetic one. Yes, he has done bad things and at worst, he kidnapped Kay and John, and set up Jill. I won't defend it, but he does more "good" than "bad." I mean the three people who tormented him are terrible. His plan is incredibly smart. Sending two despicable people to jail and eliminating the third one (this can be considered self-defense considering the body double DID try to kill him). Even Edgy realizes that he's also a victim. I honestly did feel pretty sad. Aside, his breakdown is awesome. It does combine some sadness and very comedic moments. (I think him getting attacked by birds reference to Acro). I love Simon Keyes a lot, amazing character.
@@HerlockSholmesREAL when I played AAI2 and got to the breakdown, I actually started tearing up, because I really started feel bad for him as could likely be sent to the same prison as Blaise. But then I just started laugh uncontrolibly when the animals all rebaled and started to wail on him. Then I started feel really scared when Shelly showed and almost gutted him. Thank god Dogen showed up. I'm sure to this very day Keyes is still in prison repenting, but atleast he has Dogen to protect him from who wants to take advantage of him
Yes
For me they are best Villain in the entire series
So complex, their backstory is interesting and well executed
And I love that that there are some vague hints to him being the mastermind
Dahlia and Morgan always stood out to me as being so much more evil than all the other villains in the series so far. They were willing to kill so many people... for what really? To that point in the series, all of the villains had quite neatly explained motives and Dahlia appears to be evil just for the sake of it. Never was a big fan of Bridge to Turnabout, i think it is trying to resolve too many plots at once and it's hard to follow, what is happening and why, thus I never really understood, what were Dahlia's motivations.
I thought they're motives were well explained. For Morgan, she feels inferior because she is the elder sister with barely any spiritual power which caused her to become the branch family. She wants to reclaim the main family position and thus, wants to get rid of Maya.
For Dahlia, she grew up with two horrible parents that were power hungry. Because of her toxic environment, Dahlia became more cruel as time went on. Her first plan was to take the $2 million jewel and keep it for herself as both revenge against her father and monetary gain. Her killings of Valerie, Doug and Terry were all coverups for what she did. Essentially, it was just a cycle of being scared of getting caught and killing people because of it. Her final attempted murder of killing Maya is motivated by getting revenge on Mia. I guess Dahlia's motives are a lot more complicated than other villains lol
@@DerpyHiro Ah, thanks for an explanation then. It makes a bit more sense now.
Morgan wants Honor for her Branch Family.
@@DerpyHiroI really like the fact that her motive is somewhat of a mystery and is open for interpretation. So you can make her almost a tragic villian or a monster from the beggining, depending on your point of view
You’re right nobody is born a killer. She never even wanted to be. Her greed comes from her power hungry parents and when she saw her chance to escape by stealing the diamond she took it at the expense of terrys freedom and life. She never wanted to kill anybody she just wanted some control in her life and when her step sister decided to come clean dahlia realized the life she worked and risked her life to build could be wiped away if she does so she knew the only way to keep control is to silence her step sister to be forever silenced. She couldn’t stop there she had to make sure Terry wouldn’t talk either so she influenced him into drinking the poison, she knew Diego would be on her ass and eventually catch her so she had to get rid of him too with poison from her ex boyfriend. She would’ve gotten away with it if she didn’t worry so much about the necklace she hid by giving it to pheonix but she couldn’t help herself and you know what happens from there
Very interesting video
And determinism thing is what I thought for a while
You are not the only one who connect determinism with Dahlia-and this made like her even more
However I think that final villain from Miles Investigations 2 is better than her(I find them more interesting)
Dahlia for me is the 2nd best final Villain
Im guessing that for you Dahlia is the 1st
Just out of curiosity
Will you make a video dedicated to this Villain?
Probably not, I think I can fit what I want to say about them in my Grand Turnabout video but we will see
Ngl I thought Dollie was evil just for the sake of evil, but I saw your comment and it does make some sense. I think she's probably my top 5 favorite villain, with Investigations 2 villain being my absolute favorite. She is a part of the "love to hate" characters. 😅
I think that you misunderstood the concept of the sword. It means that everyone's life ends with death, it doesn't matter if you are a good person or a bad person, whatever you decide to do with your life will end in the same way. Is not abouy destiny
Was looking for this comment. I thought the symbolism was pretty unmistakable with the sword being buried in a corpse, so the misrepresentation in the video seemed pretty intentional to me.
amazing video mate, very detailed analysis.
4:09 Tbh, it was Dahlia who convinced her father to leave Iris there in the first place (I feel was the only good/good choice Dahlia ever did in her life, without realising it).
Edit: 4:50 Glad you mentioned it. 👍
And tbh, it shows Dahlia was a manipulator as she said from when she was born and only cared for herself, so Iris being swapped with Dahlia wouldn't have made them switch roles.
I'd imagine Dahlia turning against and manipulating Bikini and Iris would be upset emotionally from her father (in other words, a much more worse scenario for Iris and maybe making her consider to follow in Dahlia's footsteps and/or even go to her and they start working together with no weak bonds.
Also 7:53 Jesus lol.
Your take on determinism is pretty interesting in this story. Morgan and Dahlia lacked spiritual power and their lives were terrible because of it, making them evil.
But I don't think having power = lucky. Yes, the Fey's with power had good childhoods while those without didn't. Maya passed absolutely traumatic events (almost killed, accused of murder) because of her power. And Iris managed to be good without the need of power (meaning things can change).
Determinism seems more likely to me, however believing in free choice will motivate you to improve your life and that of those around you.
The realist in me believes in Determinism, my sense of motivation in free choice. I'd like to think that's the best compromise I can find.
Good thing Quantum Mechanics exist, as they're pretty much the only thing standing between us and a world scientifically proven to be deterministic. As far as I'm aware at least.
Couldn't agree more
Personally I just prefer ignoring determinism. I think it's just a stupid idea in every single way imaginable to pin the blame on fate for my own situation. I'd rather blame myself for not being good enough, and that's it.
I have 3 set rules for Ace Attorney:
3. *_Always_* Press Gumshoe
2. *_Never_* Press Moe
1. *_We NEVER SPEAK about Dalia- HER..._*
Sickayduh, but good on you for being well read, my dude!
I think both pronunciations are correct
The philosophy went pretty out of nowhere but I agree 100%, determinism just makes more sense the most you think about it... not that is very important to society anyway. It just helps to realize every action will be meaningful.
All I have to say is that the games made Dahlia so dirty for literally no reason, of course, Dahlia is evil, but once I saw a reddit post analysis about her, I noticed she is an understandable character despite being evil, I wish I could be able to leave the link of the post here, sadly I can't...
Nevermind, you mentioned the post I was talking about! 😂
Wow. You really lost me at the end. To the point I couldn't even finish the video. That is just a bunch of rubbish. Nothing is pre-determined. If that was the case, everyone who grow up in trash environments never would have gotten anywhere. "Luck" has nothing to do with anything. Some people start with less than nothing and then become successful. People who have everything turn into vicious monsters or lose it all and end up with nothing. Each person has a choice and each person controls what they are. Not just your environment and DEFINITELY not because of some insane BS like "luck." What you say is rooted in nihilistic thinking and the only thing that breeds is destructive envy, and never taking any responsibility for your own actions, allowing that person to make an excuse on living in sloth or destructive behavior because it is easier to do than take any responsibility for what they do. It is always something or someone else's fault. How about no.
Of course no one would like determinism to be the truth and I think living with the mindset that determinism is real can be very destructive as you said. But I truly think everything being pre-determined is a possibility that people do not want to accept. Yes some people who grew up in trash environments become successful but was there genetic components that lead to that success? Was there some external factor such as person or an event that really motivated or changed them for the better? Likewise some people that may have grew up in better environments may have later encountered external factors that hurt them in the long run.
Maybe an easier way to understand my point of view is thinking about what a choice is. Whenever someone makes a choice, what is it that influences their decision? I would think it's a combination of their past experiences and genetics. I can't really think of anything else that would influence a choice you have to make. If decisions are made of these factors, then it's hard to say people have free will. Everyone starts out as a baby with genetics being what makes everyone different. Then we all become more different as we start to experience things in our lives. Of course as babies, we can't really control any of this. The people who raise us and the people who are around us are controlling everything around our lives. By the time we are 1 or 2 years old, we are able to speak a little bit and make our own choices based on our past experiences and genetics. And as we make more decisions, it's just a pile of choices that are influenced by our past that we had no control over.
If the concept sounds illogical that's fine because it's a hard topic to discuss. I'm not sure how to explain it clearly but Bridge to the Turnabout reminded me a lot about determinism. I'd urge you to go watch the opening cutscene of the case. It says "though the branches appear to be infinite" which is other words means "though our choices appear to be infinite", "like our destinies the sword comes to but one end." This is why I feel like Bridge to the Turnabout might be saying that we all have a destiny that cannot be changed. And even within the case Mia talks about how it's fate that she met Dahlia and beats her every single time. But as I said at the end of the video, don't live your life believing everything is predetermined because that mindset won't help at all
Yeah, thinking people can be "genetically evil" has some pretty dangerous implications and reminds me of an ideology I don't think anyone of us want to be associated with.
@@DerpyHiro Again. People who have nothing can become successful. Even if they had abusive or non-existent parents. People in that same situation ends up with a different outcome. There are endless different outcomes for each and every individual. The "destiny" in the beginning of the case they are talking about has nothing to do with determinism. It has to do with these specific people finally finishing what was started in the past. They are on a collision course. There is nothing predetermined about their choices or actions. The choices they made was ALWAYS going to end in this way because of those said choices.
So, if everything it determined by "luck" or "environment" there would be no crossover at all. People in loving households becoming murderous sociopaths would never happen. People in abusive households becoming successful and stable members of society would never happen. But they DO happen. All the time. How can you explain that away with "luck" or "predetermined" nonsense? That is impossible to judge. Using that as an excuse is just giving people an excuse to never try and even bother bettering themselves or their situations. They can just stew in envy and say "I wasn't lucky enough." Despite people starting with NOTHING and ending as SOMETHING. Even indentured servants became something. Many former slaves became something. Is that due to luck? Is it lucky to be forced into servitude now? Or is it due to the choices they made after the fact? The answer is clear as day to me.
@@orga7777 While I get your point and agree to some extent, the whole "you can do anything if you just work hard enough" thing is neoliberal BS. YES, some people are able to significantly better their circumstances but statistically, most aren't because the way our economy and system work. There are only so many opportunities. And of those people who have these success stories, how many of them are women, disabled, people of colour, queer etc.? We cannot pretend like there's equal ground to start on and some people, no matter how hard they work, how smart they are, will ever have those opportunities. That doesn't mean that they should just give up, I just believe we need to stick together and advocate for change that benefits everyone and not celebrate a minority who has more luck. I also think your slavery example is quite ignorant. Systemic racism is still a thing and impacts people in every area of their lives and that should be focused on, not blaming people that they're supposedly not working hard enough.
I'm a social worker and a career coach and I see it everyday, that some of the smartest, most hard working women, some with perfect CVs, will not get a single invite to a job interview after applying, most likely because they are immigrants and mothers. We won't give up, that's for sure but how are they supposed to work any harder than they already are?
@@wasabipassion there are people who are literally born psychopaths and/or evil. That's literally science