Top 5 Modern Tactics That Shaped AoE2
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- čas přidán 18. 05. 2024
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00:00 Intro
00:29 5
02:15 4
04:49 3
06:16 2
07:56 Honorable Mention
08:57 1
10:10 Final Talk & outro
Edits by / @k1aoe - Hry
putting your first army in the TC to heal : "its a new tactic"
me trying "0 death" runs for 20 years : *Do not cite the deep magic to me, witch. I was there when it was written.*
Meanwhile your elo : triple digits
(Just kidding, couldn't resist)
11@@--SPQR--
I love seeing a good quickwall, but IMO buildings like palisades/houses should behave more like Age of Mythology when being built. Ie they take MASSIVE damage from melee units when being built. I hate seeing 10 knights be walled out by a 40 wood investment and the villager can outbuild the knights trying to break in.
10 knights have substantial dps though, vs a small amount of them you’re right though
I like it.. the pros vils are basically earth benders
I wouldn't mind if they nerfed it a *little*, but from a spectator's perspective quickwalling is so hype to watch I don't think they should try to get rid of it. High skill, high risk, high reward. It's one of the most exciting parts of the game, right up there with mangonel fights, demo ships and castle drops (which also benifit from quickwalls).
Agreed honestly. Is also another thing that MASSIVELY improves ranged units
Maybe having -5 armor while in construction?
totally agree there should be a balance nerf to unbuilt buildings to buff melee units
I would say market use in form of selling stone for clicking up to castle age pr market abuse with saracens are a relatively new strategies that are quite popular
I have a love and hate relationship with qucik walling. Love when i do it, hate it when opponent does it.
Fun story, play aoe4 recently with my bro, and tried to wall with houses. Then i saw enemy troops walk between the houses and realized it was all for naut...😅
that's why it's impossible to copycat TheVipers strategies, he is almost always fully open and relies 100% on his quick walls skills. If I do the same 3 scouts would ruin my base completely.
How about "slow wall" have the building foundation ready in case scouts show up?
@@acarrot589doesn't work because you have to invest the total resources just to build foundations
@@acarrot589 You will end up having a lot of resources spent on the walls and you will still be under the risk of over chopping / over foraging. Also there is the risk of having resources open while adding more vils to gold for example, you will not build a gate for each resource. Take a look at his last game uploaded, Arabia he is playing Bengalis against Hearttt. In this game he completely proves my point.
@@henriqueoliveira2840 one trick I'm doing lately is when I see a possible overchop y alt-program the vill to build a palisade piece or house immediately after he finishes that tree and command it back to chop after
@@acarrot589I often do the same, but what always happens is: In that split second where the vil takes the resource to the mill or lumber camp, I'm open and the scout is right there :)
I'm usually awful at quickwalling, but it was actually critical to me winning this one Ghost Lake Tatars mirror where the opponent got all of the neutral sheep. I figured he'd go cavalry with all that extra food, so I pressured his woodlines and gold with pikes and crossbows while walling his knights out of my own base. There was this one moment where the knights nearly broke through, but my vil stopped them at the last second by plugging the gap with a palisade.
elo ?
@@hahaureadmyname Think I was in the 11-1200 range at the time.
#3 AI on expert does this frustratingly well with villagers 11. They garrison and eject so quickly when your archers are firing!
Thats crazy i didnt know the AI did it!
Hera is a bot confirmed
The AI also controls individual units to dodge mangonel shots. It is very hard to hit anything in singleplayer with mango. @@HeraAgeofEmpires2
Maybe, but the AI is still almost completely passivized by a ring of archers around the TC. The villagers flicker around like headless chickens. 11
Also, I have noticed that if I have a decent group of melee units (e.g., 10 scouts with armor upgrade), holding alt and right-clicking in the yard of the enemy TC, to move all of them there, will make the AI enter an endless cycle of garrison-ungarrison-garrison-ungarrison, which quickly leads to all villagers being dead, when they could have stopped the attack by instead staying garrisoned and making a few spearmen.
I feel proud that I figured out the SO trick by myself😂 I was on Amazon tunnel and cutting was taking forever so I used multiple and figured if I have one shoot and then the other attacks while it reloads then I can just keep attacking and staggering the reload will always have some firing
You can also hold shift to queue a bunch of trees in a row. Not as fast but takes a lot less of your attention.
Shooting farms with archers if there's no fight to be had. I learned that from you.
Yeah thats OP
Number 3 'unfortunately I can't drop Tcs in the enemy base and abuse this tactic'. "Fortified church entered the chat"
Doesn't that only allow villagers and monks?
I liked your quick tip as well about the single spearman micro vs low amnt of scout.
What about daut’s favorite building? The market :)
Really great to see, and who knows what tactics will appear next
Great video! You should do top 5 historical most op strats that’d be interesting
I remember see Viper doing some casual quickwalling in Voobly and that was spectacular because of the ping and stuff, today he abuses that and isnt funny, a new Fornite-barrier meta has been created and i dont enjoy it anymore, doesnt make sense u dont lose a vill 40 sqm from your tc because of obstacles that came from nothing.
I absolutely want to nerf deer luring - I wouldn't even mind stopping scouts luring deer conpletely. Together with the market, it makes feudal age really short and boring on a lot of maps. That also contributes to the power of monks, because if you have either scouts or archers left over from feudal the monks don't have the same power spike in early castle.
I don't mind quick walling though. I actually think it creates a really interesting dynamic. Cavalry are mobile and can raid, but you can react so if you don't full wall your base or you have a hole you can save yourself. Archers are slow and need to be kept together, but their advantage is that you can't quick wall them. The end result is that the way you design your base in feudal has to adapt depending on what you're facing.
Good point, would love to see that change.
I think a good compromise on quickwalls would be a big increase in damage taken by buildings that aren't finished- keep the mechanic but raise the risk that the attacker can just bust through.
Nice vid. Lot of them really game changers. Although deer - at least on avg and lower elos is not op at all. Its very rewarding to do that but epsecially on arabia they are often so far and if i push em all i tend to forgot some sheep or going late to scout oponent :D
Wow, amazing video. Many things I never realized.
It's hard for me to imagine what AoE2 would be like if boars had a chase range and deer had a push range
Love jour vidoe keep it up😊
I was always puzzled why people did not use garrison healing AT ALL, seriously even pros frequently throw like 5 HP paladins away just so they can hit once or maybe twice and then die instead of healing them up in a castle.
they need a hotkey that will deselect the weak or strong health units, otherwise it can take time to garrison just the weak ones.
It pains me so much when I see an army of 30 cav archers all slightly hurt, sitting next to a castle fighting. JUST Garrison! They will all heal up to full and they keep fighting, with increased range too!
The opportunity cost is significant and at a high level the garrisoning of units to heal isn't necessarily a good idea.
Any time your army isn't active in the field you are losing value. And if they are back hom being healed they aren't being positioned to do damage or repel an attack. So pulling your army back to heal is often extremely costly. Unless, of course, you are fighting near a TC or castle or want to pull your army back home anyway (as is commonly done with archers when aging up to Castle as the increase in value of crossbows is so huge).
For healing individual units, the focus and effort redirecting units to be healed then pulling them out to rejoin your army also takes you away from other tasks. If you have a half health knight, is it worth the effort to pull it back and keep it home for five minutes in a castle and then remember to ungarrison it and move it back to your army? And even that weak unit has vavlue in a fight, doing a bit of damage or taking a few hits that would be directed at your other units
Now the question is how much you value that opportunity cost versus the value of healing and it seems that players started changing how they were valuing of these in some cases. Notably we started seeing Viper using Herbal Medicine (mostly for Mangudai and Cav Archers IIRC) shortly before they buffed it.
These are things that is the reasons why I think there's very little thought and "strategy" in AoE2. Games are really decided by micro and being fast to build up. As opposed to any mindful tactics and out-thinking your opponent. These aren't so much strategies as they are techniques. I feel like it's real-time action game. Cause my god... the lack of "strategy" required is pretty low 😅 Basically just need to know basic rock-paper-scirsors, a build order. And 80% of the rest is quick hotkeys, not wasting a second, and actions per minute based
Hera, you're killing it with these videos. I rarely comment on this sort of thing but you ought to know
Very interesting video! What do you think about removing the possibility of garrisonning armies in TCs from the game? I know that might be not in your best interest since you're very good at it, but watching #3 and #4 on this video in combination with the fact that monks and defensive playstyles might be a bit too strong at the moment it might make the game better?
If there was a short cooldown on attacking for military units and conversion for monks after ungarrisoning from TCs, we'd be fine, I think. It doesn't need to be long, just a couple seconds.
I honestly think quick wall is just silly. Players should be punished for not preparing to defend their base. Building foundation should have -10 armor so that units can break it.
I swear they did patch this in an update, maybe it was only for gates... Remove the building armour while the gate is still a foundation.
At low elo you don't need to send vill for the scout boar kill - usually just have the scout there in the moment when your enemy lures and try to have it make the last hit - sometimes work :-)
I've been attaching ground since I 2000s
Savage
@@HeraAgeofEmpires2lmao *villager death sound*
Personally been using the TC healing "trick" for some time now. Might be a lowly 1150~ ELO player but I did not take the idea from anyone else. I had an injured eagle scout so hid him in a TC, he healed up and sent him back out later. I expanded it to doing it with other units. I think the most annoying instance of me doing this was men-at-arms rush with Celts. I just sent the injured ones home to the TC (good luck catching them without scouts). I kept doing this for 5+ minutes until I hit castle age. 10 or so units that would of died were now ready to go with my siege push.
I wish they changed laming with military units though, it makes so little sense logically to me and from a gameplay point of view. Stealing something, that's a risk/reward. Having a villager "kill" a boar while hiding behind walls and then a scout pokes it and 350 food ceases to exist. It's not even like I've been lamed in this way loads either. I just find it weird.
Quick walling is not that common in intermediate level (15++), but when u find someone who is really good at it, I always struggle to get any damage (i was a sct player this days, now spear skirm 11), im not that good at it, i probably get like 50 or 60 percent of my quick walls, and its actually hard to play any melee unit vs a good quick waller, but if they win I think they probably deserve it 11
Can you do a video explaining why the meta is now more on berries? Thx
Fun video, I’m about to piss so many people off with that laming technique
TC micro hopping should be a common way defensive tactic for those players that love playing super passive and over boom by creating bigger army or holding a rush. I think it can be a thing if you tower rush and add some monks to the push with some villes to wall around and cause trouble to enemy woodline and gold
the simplest strategie works, nothing sophisticated@@CMCMTTTV
The town center hopping looks like warm prism micro in sc 2
Just to be clear, it is 100% impossible to "lure" a deer in aoe2. However, you can "push" deer. 😏
don't like the sound of that
Nah, "pushing" would imply physical contact, that is 100% wrong. You lure the deer with safety in the opposite direction of the scout.
@Hera - Age of Empires 2
so for summary:
5. piss off your opponent by stealing their resources
4. realize healing exist
3. hide and seek tactic
2. fire in the hole
honorable mention. a simple deer escort, don't need to worry
1. playing tetris in aoe2
regarding mangonel attack ground: does this mean i can finally stop the AI from dodging all my shots?
AOE2 quickwalls is literally just flex seal
Quick walling is probably the 1st reason why lots of people either dont play the game or play only vs computer.
Totally unrealistic and make the game super boring. (My toughts)
Wont be suprised if the devs make something about it kinda the same way what happend to Fortnite with fast build.
Putting units in the TC for heals in Feudal isn't new at all, i absolutely suck (as in i don't even HAVE an ELO) and I've been doing this since... Well, as long as i can remember.
question regarding laming: why use the worker to shoot a few arrows first and not just stab with Scout immediately?
to save HP on your scout
5:47 shoot defend, come back out and die. 1 villager forgot his javelin
I was always surprised by pros sending in 1 hp units instead of healing them
We have been healing units in buildings and with monks forever
So everything here is broken if u are expert
This was a quality video.
Thank you sir 💪
Modern problems require modern solutions 11
3: tc hop in and micro has been around for 10+ years in AoM
G1!
Aint no way its just popular to town center heal, man i was a pioneer without even knowing it 😂
Quickwalling is the new inovation, but including healing, boar laming and Attack ground??? as a modern tactic is insane to me... this was the shit we did from the start, i remeber being a kid single player vs the ai and thinking "if i heal my unit is like getting a new one" and "if i shoot where hes going the ai wont move out of the hit" since the AI was so good at dodging mangos!
Game dev here! A part of it comes down to some hidden costs that people often overlook in regards to game balancing. In this case, you gotta think about APM and tempo as forms of spendable resources.
As a ridiculous, extreme example on paper, you basically *NEVER* have an excuse to EVER have a horse die, cuz you can micro every single one to dodge every projectile and outrun every enemy in the game. Shivramshas, being the fastest unit in the game, have literally no excuse to *EVER* die, in a perfect world; dodge the arrows, run away from the enemy melees, heal up and go back in.
In practice, that's totally infeasible, of course, and even if you could micro THAT well, your economy, tech, etc are gonna suffer for it. What that comes down to is players having to budget out where they spend their APM, like any other resource, and so things that, on paper, look excellent, may end up being suboptimal because you're spending too much time on it.
Now, as the game gets smoother and more streamlined with patches, the APM cost of some things go down. As players get better, their APM budget goes up. As certain things are buffed and nerfed in other ways, the APM cost may be offset one way or another, and things that were good or bad previously, may disappear or make more of an appearance. And, of course, making moves that cost you less APM to execute than it takes for your enemy to react to will always be a net win for you. E.g., dropping some archers by your enemy's woodline takes you one click. Them reacting by having to pull the villagers away, potentially rebuild elsewhere, or find and bring over and army and target fire your units down? That costs them a LOT more.
Tempo is another hidden resource, like I mentioned. If you pull back to heal, you're potentially letting your enemy come back into the game, especially depending on certain civ matchups. Better to lose a few units now, than to let Goths hit Imperial age and start spamming. So there comes a question, do you wanna spend your tempo lead now, or invest for more?
It's easy to sit there and heal up against an AI as a kid, cuz it's a low pressure situation against a crappy AI who doesn't know how to punish the action. But as a pro player, pulling back your quarter HP knight instead of using him to raid a woodline may cost you too much APM and tempo.
Overall, it comes down to the development of the meta, the quality of life, and the inflation of skill of the players, to decide that certain things that were always possible are now feasible to make use of in competitive play.
He meant viability and consistency for competitive matches. I do a full petard play against ai sometimes but that's not a meta that's useful in competitive matches.
I think there is a bit of context missing here. Hera is meaning things that have become normal at a competitive level recently.
Healing was done from the start (they had to nerf Byzantine monks, after all), but it was usually a specific case (eagle laming, Byzantine monks, etc) or incidental (such as if you built a monk and got your relics and he was near your army, you could get a bit of healing). Healing is also much more viable in less competitive or lower level games because the less efficient use of armies makes the opportunity cost of leaving your army idle for a minute while you do something else much lower.
Laming was also a thing, I am sure you can find lots of people complaining about it. The difference now is people have gotten more creative and aggressive at it at the top levels. For example, dragging a boar huge distances across the map is much easier than it was back in Voobly and the trick with the villager and scout has become common.
Stealing the boar is way more brutal, 600 food swing. Quick walling is just awesome people will complain about anything.
👍🏻
Quick walling needs to be nerfed. Change the mechanics so a wall or building needs to be over 15% built before its impassable. Imagine someone trying to quickwall in real life medieval times. I'm going to build a house here. Got my string lines put down so you you have to go around it to attack me haha.
9:12 viper just came in his pants ahahahah
Quick walling reminds me of these annoying fortnite kids that can build a fucking Neuschwanstein in 0.00001 seconds
Nerfing or removing deer from Arabia maps is so backwards that I'm baffled. Just put it next to the berries so even us noobs can benefit from it, pros can push it from across a 256 tile map anyway. Remember when Arabia had more forests and even cliffs?
Arabia with ponds
#3 - With Georgians and Armenians now have Fortified Church, they can use this tactics offensively.
I wonder if Fortnite's release has anything to do with the rise of quickwalling, since quickwalling is Fortnite's main gameplay gimmick
As someone with a totally "legit" degree in AOE history, I can confirm that this video is spot-on 👍
comment for the algorithm
The AI did TC hopping first
where is Hera Snipe ?
dodging ballistics?
Deer luring needs to go
Hi
yo first one~~~
These are more ‘game mechanics’ than ‘tactics’ tho right?
anyone else think hera sounds like mxr?
We in first/top 5 comments bois - all shitty tbf including mine 😂
Hera not the best at quick walling??? Come on man, I can see Viper being the best at quick walls but you are easily top5 quick waller? Other than Viper, who would you pick over yourself?
Hera is better than himself
I watched so many games of Hera and Viper and Hera is not really good at quick walling. I think the best skill of Hera is multitask (he is number 1 according to me).
Daut. Goat of quickwalling
Hd best aoe2
5 reasons why I am a low ELO legend in 2023
Pros discovering Basic gameplay features 😂
TC hopping is infuriating to watch for me😂 not fun at all considering basically has no counterplay unless you have a big army advantage to remove the TC entirely...
I feel justified! Been saying pros have underestimated the eco savings of healing for a long time! If possible, don't toss that wounded army away, pull back, heal, add more units.. its far more effective rather than starting from scratch.
It sounds like people are getting a lot better, but you're calling things broken or being abused, seems like you want them removed?
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