This NEW Strategy is Taking Over | AoE2
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
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00:00 Intro
01:15 What is it?
03:28 Why is it strong?
08:22 How is it flexible?
10:24 How to counter it?
11:28 What are the downsides?
12:17 Final Talk & Outro
Edits by / @k1aoe - Hry
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We went full circle with this one, looks like that old feudal trash wars strat
Huns war coming back next
Indeed, up next, Daut is back as top player :)
Yeah man, 22 pop maa rushers just have to wait for their moment
@@belisarian6429 Lord Daut just outlives everyone until the meta is back in his wheel house lol
Lol I saw this and was like... wait... this is all I did back on the MSN zone, it was pretty good back then, cool to see it again!
I think it’s the same as like 10-15 years ago, this was the strat and to tower the opponent at the same time
This is just the meta from 14 years ago. If you're using this much food on trash units, might as well add a forward tower as well
Immediately what I thought in the first minute of this video. Nowadays its' a race to castle age which is the point of one range, you have army presence but it's kept to a minimum and cost effective. Maps of old AoE were more favorable for this type of style with terrible wood lines, massive hills that forced such aggression. Kids today wall in record time and hide a palisade gate.
all this time, mbl was the one with the good strats by spamming trash in feudal 11
I've been using this strat forever against the AI, glad to see the pro players somehow found my games and are learning something new from me
The legend of oakenlix!
Good Guy Hera - reviving ancient strats so the "longswords in feudal/champions in castle" suddenly becomes a decent bonus as a counter.
Squires will still be a Castle age technology for all civs, though?
Yes, exept for Celts who are 15% faster from feudal age.@@EliasHasle
Isn't this just turning clock 20 years back? Spears and skirms was what the pros were doing back then. Just ask Daut.
Lord Daut wins next 3 tournaments...
The meta 20-25 years ago when AoE was still in relative infancy was hilarious: 25 pop skrims and immediate wheelbarrow. Legends like Grunt and kmkm back then would get steamrolled by a 1300 ELO player today.
Hera wasn't born 20 years ago :P
Yet another case where militia line should be good but just isn't.
Unless if you play the Celts with faster men at arms.
They need a small speed buff
@OscarPerez-nl7ie sounds like that would help. Besides that you still need to get supplies, armor, and MAA upgrades otherwise they still die I think.
I think investing in men at arms is tough here, because you need gold. And making 3 isn’t really enough to fight this off with decent micro. So the opponent might be able to fight this off with 5+ men at arms, but at pro level that means they have to invest into a gold mining camp early, and the spear/skirm player will have a better eco and a faster castle age.
@@firelordsozen9386Any player who is going for a men-at-arms rush will already have a mining camp for the vast majority of civs. They could just... continue to add m@a. This would eventually force the trash rush player into mining gold and making archers
Did the strat, archers sniped spears, then scouts decimated remaining skirms. Still 10/10, will try again.
This is how you know its a good game when strats from 15 years ago can counter todays meta.
'Skirms move faster than MAAs so you will win'
**[Earrape bagpipes quickly approaching from afar, along with 'SCOTLAND FOREVER' in the distance]**
'Why do I hear boss music?'
So we've officially come full circle. OG flushing is back. I suppose the next step is for forwarding to make a comeback.
Hera, this strat is almost as old as you are XD
almost as old, if not actually older than lierry
@@TheRealBruceLouis its so old, Daut couldnt legally drink in Serbia when he first played it. 1111111
isn't this just MBL playstyle that we always called some "random spears forward" 11
Funny how Hera pretty much mentions every relevant civ bonus at 03:52 except the Dravidian's faster firing skirms; He doesn't know the way, haha:) In fact, I think Dravidians are perhaps the perfect civ to counter this, great skirms, wood bonus, maybe even cheaper barracks technologies for men at arms + skirms:) Great video though!
This isn't new? Extreme ai has been using this for a long time
I faced this a lot back in the day and even now. I can counter it all day with man-at-arms. It isn't pretty as you said, but it will work as long as I move some extra vills to gold in mid feudal to sustain man-at-arms whilst not slowing castle pace.
Important factor: with good micro from the enemy, the skirms and spears will out attrition my man-at-arms. However, the man-at-arms are effective enough to drive the fight out of my base so my econ is unaffected, thus rendering the trash push pretty unproductive for the enemy.
Expect to lose men and it will *feel* like you are losing the early game per loss of non-trash to trash. BUT as long as keep the fight away from your vills and your castle is not slower, it's a win. Trust me.
Also civs like Malay and Malians men at arms should be ok for this. Dravidians with the cheaper upgrades may also me able to push everything back quickly to gain the initiative
Only problem for us plebs to use a strat like this is that it's a very micro intensive strat. Anytime you make a bad move or don't control your army well, you spears might go towards TC and get wrecked and one scout might kill all the skirms.
you can set your units to defensive stance so that they don't move until you tell them to move. skirms will continue shooting though even though they are standing. much easier to switch between your army near opponent's TC and your own eco
@@karis_nemik Lol. I know about those stances, formations, control groups etc. That's not the issue. What I am saying is we plebs don't have the high apm to control the army and doing macro at the same time xD Placing farms as fast as possible is very important for any elo players. That's how pro players get to castle age really fast.
@@BadAnik11 I know and I agree we don’t have a high apm. The reason I specifically mentioned the defensive stance is that it helps you to not lose your army specifically when your apm is low. Because let’s say you leave your army in your opponent’s base and then switch to fix up your eco for a bit too long. If your army is in defensive stance it has much higher chance of survival without you actively managing it because it wouldn’t go striaight towards tc fire, it will just stand and shoot and fight whoever is attacking them without moving away.
some are saying it's 14-15 yrs old, it's over 20 yrs old. This is how feudal was fought back in the day. The thought was save your gold for Castle age units. Going spears and skirms was not punished in Feudal because no seige. Towers was the way to defend against it.
Another neat thing about Skirms is that you can screw up your opponents’ farms by damaging them. (Thanks to SoTL for teaching this fact.)
If u were a true fan u woulda learnt that from my videos!! Spirit is the goat though im not mad
I remember that years ago in the 2000s, that's how it was played, you could put a tower and it didn't bother because the urban centers didn't cost a stone, it was beautiful
You can hear Hera's anxiety when he mentions Huang! Long live Huang!😂
It's Hoang
im not sure how its only found out about the spear micro recently. the reload time on spear is long so if you can walk back with skirms and attack it can be done with spear too. infact starcraft1 zealot vs zerglings micro has been around for 2 decades to not get surrounded and let shield recharge. attack, run, reload finish attack again.
Don't wanna brag but I've been doing it since 2000' and DE release. Opponents calling me trash/noob for doing this strat :(
Now thanks to your video, they will learn to respect it. Cheers mate.
That's impossible. I mean, this is a new strategy 11
11 xD @@commandeurrod974
Hera: This strategy is brand new!
Daut for the last 20 years: Am I some kind of joke to you?
I do this strategy sometimes but I also tend to mix few men at arms during the attack with bulgarians, since the upgrade is free for them and cheap blacksmith upgrades as well.
My strat is this-
First, get into castle ASAP. Don’t even create a single unit other than villagers. Instead of creating a stable economy, however, half my fills are on wood. I get a few markets and trade like crazy. Once I get into castle, I get all upgrades I haven’t gotten yet and now focus my army on food. This allows for mass trash unit production and mass raiding. Once I start the upgrade from castle to imperial, I stop raiding and let my opponent cool down a little bit. I usually then create TCs around their base to create stables or other military buildings. Then, when my opponent gets a little to strong, I start amassing units and then overwhelm them completely.
The beauty of this strat is that it works with Almost any civ.
Thanks for the Colloseum info here! Would've missed it otherwise.
this was a popular rush 15 years ago, and stopped the archer rush popularity back then too. Trush forward with archers and rush walls and fc made this Strat fall out of popularity then
Nice vid Herardo. What do you think about moving squires to feudal age?
I’ve been doing this for weeks with Byz!! I thought I was just going full clown strats 😅 love the content Hera!
I was a little worried you were gonna riding the youpudding train, glad to see an actual well rounded strategy being showcased.
Awesome vid! Can you show a build order for this?!
I wonder if in a year or two we will be back to forwarding rax/ranges and tower'ing the enemy wood
Gone full circle with this strat
Thanks a lot. Love everything about the video, except the title :-) (I prefer no clickbait, but rather "Why the Skirm + Pike strat is taking over" ;-)
Great video though, inspires to try it out myself :)
So I was actually thinking (scary stuff).. this is why everyone goes monks. You guys are all about the fancy gold units. Trash pretty much totally counters monks. Go Byzantines!!
This is what all the pros were doing in the early 2000s. We've come full circle
Yeah I was kind of already doing this I’m super close deployments for megarandom especially if they have forward deer or berries. I didn’t need the spears to do damage I just needed them to disrupt and then I’d go into xbow siege monk
Nice video my bro
I've liked this for a while, doing this with teutons and in castle adding in monks to heal them up after the feudal battles. Then redemption, more monks, and finally scouts for serious harass.
This is the most densely informative video I've seen on anything aoe2 related in months
this is just my theory but i think you can counter this strat by making archers and counter attacking.
if your opponent attacks you with those spears+skirms, you make archers and counter attack their base. You can also mix in several swords/militias.
since archers have higher base damage, they are better at killing vils so you can mirror whatever your opponent is doing and kill more vils.
if your opponent decides to move their army home and defend, you abandon the attack and let your archers walk around the empty map doing nothing. Don't fight their army.
now they have 2 options: to attack you again or stay home.
if they attack you again, you simply counter attack their base and klll more.
If they stay home, you both go up to castle age and your army will actually scale better, upgrading to crossbows while they have two kinds of trash units to upgrade.
Again this is just my theory and I am not a pro player, just sharing my thoughts.
This sounds like a great idea to me, from what I've seen the pros do usually recommend counter attacking, and it should be most effective here where the trash army's damage output is very low, you'll just have to always full wall against it.
I always say that. But I love this kind of video. I'm usually too dumb to catch the intricacies of the strats. So when someone explain them so well my mind gets blown
Good video!
This was 'meta' in 1999/2000, with less spears because scouts were much weaker.
And we are back to skirm rush.. and we all know that my Teuton TRUSH was specifically developed to stop skirm rushes on the late 1990s
Feels like a lot of civs could really use this kind of strat, even those that did not have good Feudals.
-Spanish. No gold blacksmith upgrades, feeds into the ‘no gold needed’ idea, negates weakness of no crossbow.
-Goth. Gets discount on spears, usually has poor early game.
-Japanese. Amazing spears.
-Khmer. Spends more time milking second TC bonus while pressuring enemy from Castling.
well, pathing kicking in with that 1 spear
my strat with japans is open with 3 milita into maa, immediately add skirms and then spears, then add vills to tower.
Is there a video of you doing this in a game successfully? GREAT VIDEO BTW
For a second i thought he was gonna talk about monks 😂
Huh... I was experimenting with spear skirm rush, but then I figured out you can do a 19 pop MAA rush into spear skirm. I might have to tweak my strat a little to get that range out earlier...
I don't play ranked but play against the ai with some friends and I've been using this opening for a long time and I also play as viking so my spears have extra health and free wheelbarrow helps with my crappy eco lol
Looks like AOE2 is going back to its MP roots
THAT WAS THE META 15 YEARS AGO OR MORE!
i used to do it all the damn time! i mixed regular archers on it tho
"new meta my relic"
hahaha
i guess the Meta is just a circle? xD
best way to counter? archers and villagers, lots of micro tho
When skirmishers get +1 more bonus damage to spearmen in the November update, countering with pure skirmishers will be really strong, right? And scouts + skirmishers will be almost invincible...
Anyway, isn't massed skirmishers one of the standard openings of the extreme AI (at least the last year or so) when playing certain civs?
This is something I'd defensive tower against and put in some archers. I'm just mid elo, I'm not sure if that works well on the high end.
What BS upgrades are recommended in feudal while doing this strat?
(6:40) - doing a 12-15 min feudal should work out for 20 farms for most civilisations.
I miss doing 24 pop forward rax/range 😔 from back in the day
Hey Hera I’ve noticed a lot of people saying this was meta strategy from 15 years ago. Could do you a video showing all the opening meta strategies from 15 years ago until now
You forgot to mention the changes to monk conversions and addition of devotion. Now you are more able to dive in with knights and cavalry archers. Whereas before people would run with knights if they saw one monk. Daut-I am devoted. I am devoted.
Hera I would like to see you in one game fully comit to Man at Arms and Archers. Like a trash rush but other units. I think that might be a way to fast destroy someone
You'd think that this cannot work as a meta strategy because the Man at Arms line counters both these units and is available even sooner (build militias before hitting feudal, then upgrade).
But of course infantry is just a joke and loses to the unit its supposed to counter lol
I really want to see 2 players go youpudding strat agasint hera. Be fun to watch.
I watched viper fighting against this yesterday, reminded me of an Ai army, but its pretty interesting composition. I like watching pros spam trash.
Aoe2 a few years back: you need to decide either you go cavalry or archers!
Aoe2 in 2023: it's complicated....
I found this spearman trick long time ago but noone seems to talk about it 😂
looks kinda fun
I’d like to see this strat with Turks since they don’t get pikemen or elite scerms and then combine it with fast imp BBC + Handcannons. Since a lot of times if you just go fast imp you could get punished if your opponent attacks you early.
Finally the meta is going the right way again!
what happens if your opponent goes full skirmishers against your spear+skims?
Wouldn't full skirm defense counter this and force you onto a stable? I was under the impression you'd want to avoid army comps that can be countered by one single unit
ANAKIN... the new strategy is taking over !!!
I was there Gandalf, I was there 20 years ago ....
i wonder if u could fit in a 2 militia drush to keep the opponent from walling.
I feel like it's only a matter of time til this transitions into something militia/MaA-based, since they can shut all of these units down and come out even faster.
So, in another words, pross made a full circle returning to early trush wars as it was back in the days but at a professional level
Spear and Skirm was the arabia meta in like 2001 :)
I recently tried Militia, Skirm + Tower rush my enemy managed somehow to get castle and secured his base, took me too long to get to castle and he made like 4 Cataphracts and was bulding many castles and he destroyed me quite badly but that's all he had, his eco was extremely bad and as soon as I got castle, I made 12 Conquistador killed him like 20 cataphracts secured a gold/stone pile and he sent all vills to build a castle so that he would restrict me the only available source but I killed his vills and he surrender, what a game, ( I am bad tho like 900 )
It's gonna come the day we start to get raided in the pre game lobby
I feel like this is always what I do
Sounds like byzantines could be nice for this for defence and offense
Is it possible use on TG?
isnt this just the normal flush back in the good ole days of msn zone?
So it is just abusing the fact that the militia line is dogwater.
This strat is the mbl signature.
I swear that's what I do when I hit feudal age. Now it's famous. This is crazy 🤣.
Is it good versus eagles?
It looks good but you could add that at feudal age nothing is cheap and gold units are cheaper than trash units in the beginning.
"Time is a flat circle" - Nietzsche
Why the hell skirms shilouetthe lookin' like he was about to slash Jack's hand? 😂
I like the idea of this being a decent Teuton strat, especially with their towers, but wouldn't it be simply countered by full skirm?
I know I only recently hit 1k elo in team games, but wouldn't it be beter to just make 2 scouts since the can run away from bad fights?
We need a Bulid Order for this strategy!
Look TheMole67 on twitch or directly games with id player 574945 (great expert on this strategy), Viper already done some trash rush, that not news just only it became more viable.
i think this might be the way i can make dravidians work for me.
Will it work vs AI though?
I can think of a specific DOI civ that would be good at this..
Lol this is AoE from 20 years ago. The meta then was the trash rush lol