One interesting solution for cable management that I've seen is to offset the motherboard using some standoffs (around 20mm), which allows cable routing in the space behind the motherboard. I don't know if your cooler will have space to fit the panel on with your particular build but might be worth considering. Great video, love the detailed investigation.
So in summary, the best setup for the tg version is: Psu fan face the mobo, the pump running from bottom to top, the glass on the mobo side and mesh on the gpu side, use custom sffcables for better cable management, use a sfx psu, use rad screws to shift the pcie riser closer to the mesh so that the gpu is closer to the mesh and negative air flow by having rad fans sucking the air in the case. Correct me if I'm wrong guys. Correction: negative air pressure is better?
So just to summarize the best setup is, Glass on the Mobo/CPU side, Mesh on the GPU side, Radiator Fans set to exhaust, PSU fan blowing inside the case, Move the GPU to space out the middle.
So I actually originally had my system (5800x with evga rtx 3080 ftw3 ultra) set up with a 240mm aio (lian li galahad), and was running into huge idle temps (60C) while the gpu was loaded. The gpu was just dumping all the heat into the rad, and made the cpu unnecessarily hot. Ended up switching to a Scythe Big Shuriken 3 for air cooling and 2x140mm fans in exhaust at the front. Load temps on the cpu ended up about the same, but idle was far better. Also makes more sense as a thermal solution since the front exhaust can double duty pulling heat from the gpu+cpu. Case is still quiet, and also much lighter now.
I'd love to see a comparison. Since the two fans are the only possibility in this case. Using 140mm fans instead of 120mm should make a significant difference. I'd use 280mm AIO if I'm gonna build in the case.
Could you possibly get another mesh panel for EP 3? I'm intrigued how much better thermals would be for both cpu and gpu WITH the shifted gpu mod and psu fan in and raised case! You could probably even fit a fan on top I think, There's also an after market mod on the case where you can fit 2 x 60mm fans on the rear.
I want to see a 240mm rad vs a 280mm radiator in this case. Was thinking of swapping from my NCASE M1 with a 4 year old X52 with 2x NFA12x25's to a z63 in the SSUPD and MOBO side glass panel.
I've seen people add 80mm fans on the top (right/narrow side) of the GPU. Not sure whether that's intake or exhaust, but its interesting...there appears to be space with most GPU's in that area for 2 small fans.
Is it the case that shifting the GPU was the only statistically significant variable that cause the drop in temps. Surely the PSU has little to say when the fan doesn't often turn on till under heavy load.
Very interesting ideas shared here, thank you! What are the stand-off part number/sizes that you ordered? Thinking of installing those to gain more air flow towards the rear M2 NVME drive
@@MachinesMore thanks! Oh assuming I have both sides mesh, and I do the gpu shifted mod, should I have the PSU face in or out since the motherboard side is now mesh, of course in the exhaust config.
Trying to think outside the box here ... why do case designers require all the components to be in ONE compartment, thus having the problem of hot air from one part affecting the other part, e.g. hot air from GPU affecting the radiator. Is it possible for you to create and insert a makeshift panel between the GPU and the radiator, so that the GPU's hot air is diverted out through the panel that faces the GPU - rather than the hot air from the GPU being diverted sideways onto the radiator? I'd be curious about the thermal results if you were to perhaps insert a thin metal panel that acts as a partition to, as much as possible, separate the GPU from the radiator. For example @6:25, the panel would be in between the GPU and the Noctua fans to prevent the hot air from reaching the Noctua fans. The GPU's hot air would be expelled from the case by the power of its own fans.
So as long as the rad is still physically higher than the pump, mounting it as displayed here will prevent air from getting to the pump and damaging it? Is that how it works? I'm still new to AIOs and I'm still researching to get one.
Very interesting video on the ssupd case, literally either this or nr200 for my next build right now (yess putting off the build bcs i cant get a gpu) but was thinking jf the standard cables of a sf750 would be long enough for this config bcs am not sure if they sell extensions where im at without paying ridiculous shipping fees and taxes
Marcelo, the SF750 should yield a similar issue where the cable length limits you to one orientation. It’s not a terrible orientation if you shift it in, but extensions or custom cables would allow the fan to help case airflow more.
So whats best, PSU fan in or out? Corsair sf750. CPU is liquid cooled with 280 Radiator in the front. Mesh on both sides. GPU exhaust. Thx for advice and nice video.
If you compare this build (your ideal SSUPD AIO build) in contrast to your ideal NR200 AIO build - which case is quieter? Which case has better thermals?
Thermal testing was noise normalized, meaning no meaningful difference other than noise quality. Both cases can be setup to run quietly. However, there is a factor to consider and that is position relative to user. A typical placement would be IO facing away from the user, so front panel closer. The SSUPD has fans that have to be placed in the front panel, so that does bias the noise closer in that placement. Good fans with a pleasing noise pattern is key, so NF-A12x25 or P12s (if one can avoid the growl rpm range) are good choices. That being said I have noticed the SSUPD tempered glass panel has a better level of noise isolation due to foam lining on the panel. For thermals I think just due to the flexibility of different configurations the NR200/P takes the cake pretty easily. There are just more setups where you can better isolate CPU cooling from the GPU cooling, where the SSUPD has a fairly strong interdependence between the two.
I recently built mine and the fans run loud with the mesh panels on like it's choked for air. Gpu offset with alot of cabling hidden in the bottom middle, fans pushing out the front. Not sure what to do. It's much louder than my old pc when any game starts. Gets better when I remove the panels but can still run loud. Any advice?
I have an ATX psu and want to use a glass panel on the CPU side. Do you think it would be ok to mount the atx psu with the fan facing inwards if the 2-slot gpu is offset as shown in this video?
It’s additive/stacked with CPU and GPU temps, in hindsight perhaps not the clearest presentation so I might consider just splitting up. I was basically trying to avoid too many rows given the number of configurations shown at once!
Hey I'm thinking about building in this case ase follows: - Glass on GPU side - Samdwich wall in the GPU closer Position to make more room for Mobo - Air cooling ryzen 5 5600x with noctuah nh12s - liquid/hybrid cooled GPU with AIO like Aorus Waterforce or EVGA hybrid gaming - PSU with fans on the outside I think this could be a very good thermal option considering the system will be strictly used for gaming. It would also be very aestethically pleasing with the waterblock gpu on the glasse side. Should I then run this system still on negative or positive pressure considering the watercooled gpu?
For your specific setup, I’d exhaust, and here’s why. You’ll have no problem cooling the graphics card since it’s liquid cooled, even if it’s partly ingesting some of the CPU’s heat. Your CPU will be low TDP but we want to give the L-12S cooler all the help it can get, so exhaust prevents the card (guessing like a 3080 or higher level) from dumping 300+ watts of heat into the case, and the negative pressure also aids in the cpu cooler fan intaking. Sounds like a really nice setup you have planned!
The total length is the combined total- the GPU bars pick up where the CPU ends. For that particular example the Perhaps not the best way to illustrate it because they’re not necessarily prioritized 1:1 for everyone but just another way to visualize the combined effect of both major components. Hope that makes sense!
Given the aim of achieving a negative pressure inside the case - on one hand the radiator fans draw the air OUT of the case - but my question is: aren't the GPU fans drawing air INTO the case? How does that affect the ability to achieve the desired negative pressure?
The GPU fans definitely offset the case/rad fans somewhat, but a pair of 120mm fans are still going to move a lot more air, so on net you are still encouraging air to flow more freely into the path of the GPU, and that’s one of the reasons that setup works well for a lot of sandwich style setups.
@@MachinesMore Is the GPU blowing hot air onto the location on the motherboard where a 2nd NVME SSD would be? If so, I'm guessing that the NR200 might be better at protecting the 2nd NVME SSD from overheating?
Absolutely, the back m.2 isn’t a good option, so I’d advise one big front m.2 vs 2 smaller ones. With the spacing out though, airflow is better and there is enough space to throw a heatsink on it so it might be a bit better. I’ll try that out but you’re absolutely right in that the NR200 and similar layouts are much better for back m.2 drives.
I think some 40 or 60mm noctua fans in and around the gpu area using some blue tac will help in exhausting hot air. contact noctua they might send some for you to test. They once send another youtuber 40 40mm fans to mount on a 240 rad lol.
Depends on how you are cooling your CPU. I think that with an AIO for the CPU, mesh on the GPU side makes more sense, coupled with the PSU with fan facing inwards, or with fan facing out but offset for breathing room.
@@MachinesMore awesome thank you so much. Yes that’s exactly how I’m planning on doing it with an AIO for the CPU. I’m still trying to find a white one with the TG panel but so far no luck. I appreciate your response keep up the great videos!
Awesome vid. I’ve got an XC3 3080 Hybrid card in the Meshlicious. Seeing insanely good GPU thermals with the rad fans set to intake, at the cost of moderately worse CPU thermals (cooled by a Noctua NHL12s also on intake). Any tips to optimize?
What's the best cooling system if I want to do full core Blender renders? I have a ryzen 5 5600x and a 3070. I like this passive cooling system but maybe it's not the best for me.
If you want air cooling, the L-12S or Big Shuriken 3 will do the job. Liquid cooling is fine too but the gains would be more for silence or OC on this chip than getting more PBO performance.
It’s not a huge concern, warm air is much much better than no air, and of course cool air is best but plenty of setups require PSUs to take case air for ventilation. A lot of power supplies (not the revised CM unit I am using) have a fanless mode where the fan doesn’t even come on until higher load anyway. The one thing I would avoid is having the PSU fan right up against the flow through exhaust location without auxiliary airflow, and one scenario I could see this is in the NR200 with PSU fan flipped in and a flow through card, that would be a very suboptimal setup essentially forcing the hot air into the unit.
One interesting solution for cable management that I've seen is to offset the motherboard using some standoffs (around 20mm), which allows cable routing in the space behind the motherboard. I don't know if your cooler will have space to fit the panel on with your particular build but might be worth considering. Great video, love the detailed investigation.
So in summary, the best setup for the tg version is:
Psu fan face the mobo, the pump running from bottom to top, the glass on the mobo side and mesh on the gpu side, use custom sffcables for better cable management, use a sfx psu, use rad screws to shift the pcie riser closer to the mesh so that the gpu is closer to the mesh and negative air flow by having rad fans sucking the air in the case.
Correct me if I'm wrong guys.
Correction: negative air pressure is better?
So just to summarize the best setup is, Glass on the Mobo/CPU side, Mesh on the GPU side, Radiator Fans set to exhaust, PSU fan blowing inside the case, Move the GPU to space out the middle.
Wouldn't mesh on all sides be the best for thermals? I can see no reason why thermals would be better with glass, then with mesh.
The PSU fan doesn’t blow, it pulls air and exhausts it out the back of the PSU
@@luca_sbll that is when the psu fan actually comes on correct? It doesnt work all the time only when needed it comes on.
@@SpartanGR77 Yeah, depending on how much power the components draw and how efficient the PSU is, the fan may or may not come on
I changed the fans to exhaust and risen the GPU all the way to the mesh. Didn't think about the PSU thought. Great idea. Will change this tonight!
Glad you saw better results by spacing the riser out further to give some room between the mobo and gpu. 🤘🏻
Still like the nr200 for mainstream and the NCase m1 and Sliger s620 for custom sff. It’s pretty amazing how well the NCase m1 still holds up
Great video. Can’t wait to see more of this case.
So I actually originally had my system (5800x with evga rtx 3080 ftw3 ultra) set up with a 240mm aio (lian li galahad), and was running into huge idle temps (60C) while the gpu was loaded. The gpu was just dumping all the heat into the rad, and made the cpu unnecessarily hot. Ended up switching to a Scythe Big Shuriken 3 for air cooling and 2x140mm fans in exhaust at the front. Load temps on the cpu ended up about the same, but idle was far better. Also makes more sense as a thermal solution since the front exhaust can double duty pulling heat from the gpu+cpu. Case is still quiet, and also much lighter now.
I'd love to see a comparison. Since the two fans are the only possibility in this case. Using 140mm fans instead of 120mm should make a significant difference. I'd use 280mm AIO if I'm gonna build in the case.
Could you possibly get another mesh panel for EP 3? I'm intrigued how much better thermals would be for both cpu and gpu WITH the shifted gpu mod and psu fan in and raised case! You could probably even fit a fan on top I think, There's also an after market mod on the case where you can fit 2 x 60mm fans on the rear.
Loved the vid mate keep up the good work
I want to see a 240mm rad vs a 280mm radiator in this case. Was thinking of swapping from my NCASE M1 with a 4 year old X52 with 2x NFA12x25's to a z63 in the SSUPD and MOBO side glass panel.
I've seen people add 80mm fans on the top (right/narrow side) of the GPU. Not sure whether that's intake or exhaust, but its interesting...there appears to be space with most GPU's in that area for 2 small fans.
Teasing us with unobtainium made SFF case :)
I think the issue with this case is its very hard to do a proper cable managing job for it
Not at all with an SFX PSU the cable management is easiest i've ever built.
I see he had to use the same exact 24 pin extender... such a bummer for cable management! It BARELY doesn't reach with regular cables
I'm just waiting for the damn Canadian launch already. Saying goodbye to my Nr200P for this beauty.
Is it the case that shifting the GPU was the only statistically significant variable that cause the drop in temps. Surely the PSU has little to say when the fan doesn't often turn on till under heavy load.
Very interesting ideas shared here, thank you! What are the stand-off part number/sizes that you ordered? Thinking of installing those to gain more air flow towards the rear M2 NVME drive
i assume when you say exhaust, you mean a negative preassure where the two rad fans are on exhaust?
Correct!
@@MachinesMore thanks! Oh assuming I have both sides mesh, and I do the gpu shifted mod, should I have the PSU face in or out since the motherboard side is now mesh, of course in the exhaust config.
Trying to think outside the box here ... why do case designers require all the components to be in ONE compartment, thus having the problem of hot air from one part affecting the other part, e.g. hot air from GPU affecting the radiator. Is it possible for you to create and insert a makeshift panel between the GPU and the radiator, so that the GPU's hot air is diverted out through the panel that faces the GPU - rather than the hot air from the GPU being diverted sideways onto the radiator? I'd be curious about the thermal results if you were to perhaps insert a thin metal panel that acts as a partition to, as much as possible, separate the GPU from the radiator. For example @6:25, the panel would be in between the GPU and the Noctua fans to prevent the hot air from reaching the Noctua fans. The GPU's hot air would be expelled from the case by the power of its own fans.
So as long as the rad is still physically higher than the pump, mounting it as displayed here will prevent air from getting to the pump and damaging it? Is that how it works? I'm still new to AIOs and I'm still researching to get one.
Very interesting video on the ssupd case, literally either this or nr200 for my next build right now (yess putting off the build bcs i cant get a gpu) but was thinking jf the standard cables of a sf750 would be long enough for this config bcs am not sure if they sell extensions where im at without paying ridiculous shipping fees and taxes
Marcelo, the SF750 should yield a similar issue where the cable length limits you to one orientation. It’s not a terrible orientation if you shift it in, but extensions or custom cables would allow the fan to help case airflow more.
Hi I need a lot of help my side panel I don't have an aio lian li galahad
So whats best, PSU fan in or out? Corsair sf750. CPU is liquid cooled with 280 Radiator in the front. Mesh on both sides. GPU exhaust.
Thx for advice and nice video.
If you compare this build (your ideal SSUPD AIO build) in contrast to your ideal NR200 AIO build - which case is quieter? Which case has better thermals?
Thermal testing was noise normalized, meaning no meaningful difference other than noise quality. Both cases can be setup to run quietly. However, there is a factor to consider and that is position relative to user. A typical placement would be IO facing away from the user, so front panel closer. The SSUPD has fans that have to be placed in the front panel, so that does bias the noise closer in that placement. Good fans with a pleasing noise pattern is key, so NF-A12x25 or P12s (if one can avoid the growl rpm range) are good choices. That being said I have noticed the SSUPD tempered glass panel has a better level of noise isolation due to foam lining on the panel. For thermals I think just due to the flexibility of different configurations the NR200/P takes the cake pretty easily. There are just more setups where you can better isolate CPU cooling from the GPU cooling, where the SSUPD has a fairly strong interdependence between the two.
I recently built mine and the fans run loud with the mesh panels on like it's choked for air. Gpu offset with alot of cabling hidden in the bottom middle, fans pushing out the front. Not sure what to do. It's much louder than my old pc when any game starts. Gets better when I remove the panels but can still run loud. Any advice?
I have an ATX psu and want to use a glass panel on the CPU side. Do you think it would be ok to mount the atx psu with the fan facing inwards if the 2-slot gpu is offset as shown in this video?
Some users tried a top and rear fan exhaust and reported lower temperatures overall. Will you be able to test this setup?
Why is the graph @ 2:24 not against a common Celsius scale? The 77.5C is longer than 83.8C and 89.1C.
It’s additive/stacked with CPU and GPU temps, in hindsight perhaps not the clearest presentation so I might consider just splitting up. I was basically trying to avoid too many rows given the number of configurations shown at once!
Where could I buy those long screwed + foam blocks to offset my graphics card?
Hey I'm thinking about building in this case ase follows:
- Glass on GPU side
- Samdwich wall in the GPU closer Position to make more room for Mobo
- Air cooling ryzen 5 5600x with noctuah nh12s
- liquid/hybrid cooled GPU with AIO like Aorus Waterforce or EVGA hybrid gaming
- PSU with fans on the outside
I think this could be a very good thermal option considering the system will be strictly used for gaming. It would also be very aestethically pleasing with the waterblock gpu on the glasse side.
Should I then run this system still on negative or positive pressure considering the watercooled gpu?
For your specific setup, I’d exhaust, and here’s why. You’ll have no problem cooling the graphics card since it’s liquid cooled, even if it’s partly ingesting some of the CPU’s heat. Your CPU will be low TDP but we want to give the L-12S cooler all the help it can get, so exhaust prevents the card (guessing like a 3080 or higher level) from dumping 300+ watts of heat into the case, and the negative pressure also aids in the cpu cooler fan intaking. Sounds like a really nice setup you have planned!
@@MachinesMore I was also thinking in this direction. Now I'm pretty confident in building it this way. Thank you a lot for your help!
On the first graph, why is 89C bar shorter than 84C and 77C bars? something's wrong...
The total length is the combined total- the GPU bars pick up where the CPU ends. For that particular example the Perhaps not the best way to illustrate it because they’re not necessarily prioritized 1:1 for everyone but just another way to visualize the combined effect of both major components. Hope that makes sense!
Given the aim of achieving a negative pressure inside the case - on one hand the radiator fans draw the air OUT of the case - but my question is: aren't the GPU fans drawing air INTO the case? How does that affect the ability to achieve the desired negative pressure?
The GPU fans definitely offset the case/rad fans somewhat, but a pair of 120mm fans are still going to move a lot more air, so on net you are still encouraging air to flow more freely into the path of the GPU, and that’s one of the reasons that setup works well for a lot of sandwich style setups.
@@MachinesMore Is the GPU blowing hot air onto the location on the motherboard where a 2nd NVME SSD would be? If so, I'm guessing that the NR200 might be better at protecting the 2nd NVME SSD from overheating?
Absolutely, the back m.2 isn’t a good option, so I’d advise one big front m.2 vs 2 smaller ones. With the spacing out though, airflow is better and there is enough space to throw a heatsink on it so it might be a bit better. I’ll try that out but you’re absolutely right in that the NR200 and similar layouts are much better for back m.2 drives.
I think some 40 or 60mm noctua fans in and around the gpu area using some blue tac will help in exhausting hot air. contact noctua they might send some for you to test. They once send another youtuber 40 40mm fans to mount on a 240 rad lol.
Do you think that there is any difference between having the fans on the inside like yours or between the rad and the case?
Negligible for airflow, however for the AIO bend there is a big difference, the tubing will be tighter with rad on the inside.
Sorry I’m kind of confused here. The ideal configuration is the glass panel on the CPU side and the PSU pointed inward correct?
Depends on how you are cooling your CPU. I think that with an AIO for the CPU, mesh on the GPU side makes more sense, coupled with the PSU with fan facing inwards, or with fan facing out but offset for breathing room.
@@MachinesMore awesome thank you so much. Yes that’s exactly how I’m planning on doing it with an AIO for the CPU. I’m still trying to find a white one with the TG panel but so far no luck. I appreciate your response keep up the great videos!
Awesome vid. I’ve got an XC3 3080 Hybrid card in the Meshlicious. Seeing insanely good GPU thermals with the rad fans set to intake, at the cost of moderately worse CPU thermals (cooled by a Noctua NHL12s also on intake). Any tips to optimize?
Sounds like a cool setup! What CPU are you running, and are they bad to a point that it’s holding back boost clocks?
@@MachinesMore thanks man! I’ve got a 5600x, and not getting above 70 while gaming, so I think I’m probably fine. Undervolted the CPU a bit as well
What's the best cooling system if I want to do full core Blender renders? I have a ryzen 5 5600x and a 3070. I like this passive cooling system but maybe it's not the best for me.
If you want air cooling, the L-12S or Big Shuriken 3 will do the job. Liquid cooling is fine too but the gains would be more for silence or OC on this chip than getting more PBO performance.
If switch the AIO fans to Phanteks T30, will it have Thermal improvement?
Compared to most stock fans, absolutely- as long as you can fit them.
@@MachinesMore thank you for reply, Meshlicious shoud have enough space to install Phanteks T30
Is having the PSU suck in the hot air from the case something to be worried about from a PSU perspective or does that not really matter?
It’s not a huge concern, warm air is much much better than no air, and of course cool air is best but plenty of setups require PSUs to take case air for ventilation. A lot of power supplies (not the revised CM unit I am using) have a fanless mode where the fan doesn’t even come on until higher load anyway. The one thing I would avoid is having the PSU fan right up against the flow through exhaust location without auxiliary airflow, and one scenario I could see this is in the NR200 with PSU fan flipped in and a flow through card, that would be a very suboptimal setup essentially forcing the hot air into the unit.
PSU's has been sucking hot air for decades in prebuilts, should be fine
7:34 Hugh Mungus what?
In my opinion, FE cards should just be avoided all together in SFF cases... Their flow through design is just horrible for SFF...
Depends on the layout! They can actually work very well in cases like the NR200 and NCase M1.
@@MachinesMore Would you say that with the 4000 series on the near horizon, avoiding FE's for the Meshilicious is advisable?