Hot Hatch LIMPS HOME? (VW GTI Throttle Malfunction)
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- čas přidán 12. 04. 2023
- This 2007 VW GTI 6-speed manual actually drove to the shop from 3 hours away!
Owner says that most days it's NOT HAPPY, going into REDUCED POWER mode intermittently.
Lots of codes set, including TPS circuit codes.
However, on the test drive it runs BEAUTIFULLY!!
How do we approach a problem that we can't recreate?
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Enjoy!
Ivan - Auta a dopravní prostředky
My grandfather and father pounded into my thick skull that anything worth doing is worth doing correctly. Nice job Ivan.
Would love to hear you and Eric O. have a discussion on butt connectors vs. solder….that would be lively! 😅
Yep, butt connectors will eventually let you down. Fix it right the first time! Great repair Ivan.
Most modern drive by wire systems will have two separate 5 volt reference wires from two different 5v regulators, two separate sensor/signal wires and two separate ground wires to different ground points for both the throttle body and the accelerator pedal. With all those codes for the TPS, PPS, MAF, etc it was probably randomly shorting out one or both of the 5 volt references to ground.
Crimp connectors are fine if done properly. Soldering is a worse repair IF not done properly(too much heat) etc. I worked in the peterbilt assembly plant for 16 years on trucks that experienced extreme vibrations and there wasn’t a soldering iron in the plant! There was too much room for error so everything (just like all other OE manufacturers) only use crimp connectors but there was extensive training on how to use them properly. Great video!!!
No burnt exhaust valve or parasitic draw? How disappointing 😂 I feel like you've seen a lot of those lately.
Oh we got plenty of those coming up don't worry Greg :D
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Tis the season.
Great job Ivan. Love your channel and every morning I look forward to seeing another video. Thanks.👍👍
Always good to check suspicions, which raised Your eyebrows pretty quick. I’ve been burnt thinking “ it’s surely not that” . Doing a bit of soldering myself tonight with the HAKO unit, which works great, but that cordless one looks like a must get tool! Nice work Ivan.👍👍🇺🇸
Ivan, I have a connector I need to replace. Great to see you in action on this wiring job. Hopefully, I can emulate your skilled efforts. Thanks for Sharing!
Good going! I prefer solder and heatshrink tubing also! Glad to see a manual tranny - especially a 6-speed!
Good eye and detective work when u saw all the codes, great job and no parts required! 😮
Good thought process, Ivan - straight to the problem (that someone else created). Soldered and properly insulated, it should last a very long time.
I am SO glad you didn't take one look at all of those fault codes and say, "Please don't bring it back." Great video!
Nice job once again Ivan👍 love watching your videos as a fellow tech/mechanic. Always Learning something watching your Channel! And i 100% agree with you, never trust butt connectors!
It is a simple repair Ivan , but other workshops could have made this so hard.
Your methodical approach saves the day 💪💪💪👍
From my experience I've seen lots of bad crimp connections, usually the ferrule is too big for the wire which will never work. It needs to be rated for that exact wire size and crimped properly with the right tool.
Exactly! VW actually tell you to use their crimp connectors instead of Solder, it's their preferred method.....but obviously not done correctly, you might as well just twist the wires together😂
The correct crimping tool is the key.
@@jdtractorman7445 I agree, and if you suspect that it's going to see moisture - add a speck of grease in the connector before inserting the wire. That will keep the moisture and green crust away long enough.
Even Eric O. uses bad tool for this.
@@jdtractorman7445 correct tool *and* correct crimp for the wire gauge. signal wires in the vehicle harness are often way too thin for the typical red/blue/yellow american crimp connectors.
Just like there are pros and cons to back probing vs piercing, there are also pros and cons to soldering vs crimping. Many great arguments for both methods. Maybe the answer is, if what you do has a long history of success, then keep doing it.
Ivan you really know your job, trust you so much when it come to auto diagnostic
Great job Ivan you the man.I agree don't like them butt connector I always solder and heat shrink.Have a GREAT weekend and a SAFE one.
Throttle body position sensors work in a way that sum of both signals are always ~5V. As you depress throttle one signal voltage goes up and the other one down accordingly. Your scantool just displayed that in percantages.
Great visual observation! 👍👍👍👍
I love your small and super efficient solder assistant
(double alligator "U")
When I worked for a VW dealer whenever a wire repair or wire overlay was performed crimp and seal butt connectors were used.
Edit: those yellow wires are OEM VW harness repair wires. Whomever did the repair didn’t do it correctly.
Great job Ivan. 👏
Great job Ivan!!
Nice seeing GTI content!
Ivan, Gotta love them cobbled up wiring messees
Great job, Ivan. You zeroed in on the problem quickly and fixed it the right way! Love your channel!👍
The manufacturer, FAA and NASA all agree that crimping is the right choice in this application. This failure was not due to it being a crimp, it was a failure of the procedure of crimping. Same could be said if someone soldered a cold joint. Do you say all solder joints are bad when you find a broken connection due to an improper solder joint?
With that said, Ivan is the only one that has to put his warranty on the repair, so it is only his opinion that matters in this case.
VW TSB for reference static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2017/MC-10123172-9999.pdf Interesting that it specifically states not to solder the connections.
Good job Ivan 👍
Quick and accurate NPR repair as only Ivan can do . I started using those shrink low heat required solder connectors that where advertised on the internet ,after a few call backs threw them in the bin. Back to tried and true cable connections and no call backs. That would be a great car to drive turbo stick shift would be a pleasure to drive it anywhere,but being a VW maybe not the best choice for trouble free motoring .
vws are junk the last good ones were in the 80s... I should know 73 sun bug,a few jettas 80 great car, first 82 gti ate exhausts and windshields, vr6 corrado fun car shifter sucked, vr6 golf fast but mexico cant make cars.. misweld on roof fixed 2 times headliner removed 2 times on a new car. window broke, oversteering then the last a passat turbo laaaag wind noise but warmed up a blast.. brake squeel i had to fix.. Now its toyotas... after vws I realized they were way too needy... But that vrg golf set up loose 10 year warranty screamed.. but.....
Yeah, great job, but many times you have to redo other peoples bad repairs. Funny how you and the Wizard have a video now and both are on VW's. Thanks Ivan.
Great fix, I wonder what happened to the original connector before 60k miles? Seems like that might be in the warranty period, but that looks like an aftermarket connector. Ironically the VAG factory service manuals have a giant warning never to solder wires or connectors, always to use crimps. Crimp connectors can work well if they are correctly crimped - clearly not the case here (or even often, requires a good quality ratcheting crimp tool). Years ago I read an aviation study that showed that proper crimps are a form of cold soldering and were vastly better than soldering.
With the right crimp tool, the wires will break before the crimp fails. But a lot of people don't have the right tool.
VW connectors seem to get extra crispy over time. I ended up changing all of my injector connectors after all the tabs broke when I touched them. A good crimp is imperative but you get that with experience even with the right tool. I also had to fix one of the external transmission wires that was broken on the rabbit.
Quick and Neat fix Kudos !
The only time I have ever seen a soldered and heat shrink joint fail is where someone added the wrong type of flux to the joint. But if you use proper rosin cored leaded solder you should never have a problem. If you don't have the proper solder, never be tempted to go to the shed and get out your old tin of plumbers flux and plumbers solder - that flux will rot the wire in no time because it's acidic, and the second you apply heat to the joint it wicks it's way up inside the wire, where it will happily rot the wire over time.
Nicely done repair :) It's funny how machines often work at their best, when repair guy is present, but act up only for the user :D
Proof machines are conscious. 😂😂
Those are not so bad if used correctly, always check your crimp (and get a good crimper). In this case I think they used the included blue butt connectors which were for larger wires. I noticed that replacement pigtails seem to provide the wrong butt connectors all the time. soldering I find works better for smaller wires in lower vibration situations.
When it's happy it's happy but most of the time it isn't, except when the mechanic takes 🚗 for a test drive it is always happy 😂🤣
Great job Ivan 👌
Well, I guess it had been 'modified' after all! Thanks Ivan.
The power of visual inspection.
Another no parts required repair which is great 👍🏿 these small repairs details makes a tech good or bad last tech repaired right issue but the way he did made it bad.Cheers
Well we have no idea why the connector was replaced in the first place!
OEM THROTTLE BODY
kindergarten student wired it in 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Great vid 👍
Ivan the mechanical whisperer sends another happy car & customer on his way 👍
Soldering always the best way to go and shrink wrap too. On high current then a crimp connector and soldering as well with shrink wrap. Short cuts bit you in the long run.
It's a common occurrence with mechanics. Lol.
I just looked at a truck today where the a/c compressor wires had been extended with household speaker wire and just twisted together. No tape or anything. Customer complaint was a/c doesn't work consistently.
Great repair Ivan ! The only way I repair wires is with solder and shrink wrap , like you said its never let you down!
If you don't have the experience or correct tools to make a good crimp then soldering will likely be more reliable, but a correctly formed crimp is superior in every way to solder which is why they are used almost exclusively on safety critical installations such as railway signalling.
@@ferrumignis everything on any oem automobile from any manufacturer besides chipboards and printed circuits are crimped connections however most people lack the correct tools to perform a proper crimp a good solder joint is only as good as the solder being used most people use poor quality low temp solder that is lead free 60/40 lead rosin is what should be used me personally I use solid barrel crimp and marine heat shrink on most of my repairs but really tiny wires I typically solder
Perfect example of visual inspection
I learned from the best ;) Hands in the pockets until you look at scan data!
OK, solder & shrink wrap! Had to repair some chewed wires and was wondering if soldering the wires was a good thing.
Another happy PHAD customer.
OMG! I just replaced my crankshaft position sensor on my 2002 buick 3.8 from 12 years ago and 120K miles ago this last Sunday. The camshaft position sensor wiring 12 years ago severed 8 inches away from the sensor. I used crimp connectors to put it back in service covered with electrical tape. Last weekend I stripped the tape off and applied two wrappings of it covered each time with liquid electrical tape. When I see your video now I am having second thoughts. The car starts like a champ compared to the tired crank sensor symptoms. If you see me by the road please wave with all five fingers.
@T.J. Kong I have 2 nice digital soldering stations (one Weller) and a Weller trigger soldering iron. I agree with you it is hard to beat a soldered joint. I also bought a Titan ratcheting crimping tool I got last year. I just love crimping with a nice joint with a one of heat after crimping connector. If I had started early in the day I would have probably soldered the joints.
Time will tell. Hope it works!
Great fix…
I’m 7 minutes into the video. I’ve seen a few variations of this issue. Go under the car and check the lambda sensor wires. When they get damaged the lambda power supply can short back to the ecu. Eventually it takes the ecu out and the car is stuck at 3-5k rpm idle. After a long diagnosis I found power coming out of the ecu where the pedal position signal should be going in. It’s quite common here in Europe, usually a small branch is all it takes to pull the lambda wires down from the clip, then they drag on the road and the rest is obvious.
I couldn't agree more: Learn to solder! I would add one thing, though. Solder is NOT a mechanical connection. Always twist the wires together, then add solder.
Insulated crimp connectors are hard to get right. There's a good bit of variation between one company's product and another's...whether it's a shink/adhesive insulated type, PVC, or nylon shell. I've had good results with them, but not without having two ratcheting crimp tool bodies and several dies sets to pick from, usually requiring more than one attempt.
I'd rather use separate shrink/adhesive tubing and uninsulated butt connectors, since there's direct metal-to-metal contact (and controlled dimensions) with the appropriate punch-type die set.
Uninsulated butt connectors are the way to go. I always strip one wire extra long and solder one side of the connector to both wires. Overkill? Probably.
There was a bulletin for this. Common issue. There was pin fitment issues on the original connector. Vw had us re wire the connector.
According to the wiring diagram pin 1 is the output signal from g188, not a common supply or ground
Ivan needs a special sound effect for when he breaks out his favorite soldering iron. :)
Shots Fired Eric-O ... Shots fired
Eric O uses butt connectors, lol. Great fix and repair! Should be great to outlast the car, lol. Great video, Ivan!
The connection tails get changed because of high resistance , swap from standard metal to gold terminals to stop high resistance.
Nice job. Visual inspection pays off again. I agree solder and shrink wrap all the time.
I like when the owner is with you, like homie Jeff. Hey, Eric O uses butt connectors. Probably should use the correct butt connectors also.
The right crimping tool is also a must. The crimper that just flatten the connector don't work, the crimper that punch a section into the wire is as strong as the wire. 30+ years as 12 volt technician
If you want to solder the wires you can still use an uninsulated butt splice to connect the wires mechanically (high temp small wire gauge uninsulated butt splices are available) and then solder the wires and the butt splice together and cover with heat-shrink. If possible stagger the connections so they don't bulge up. Given the small gauge of the wires, the uninsulated butt splices could add a little more rigidity.
Not sure what solder you used to make the repair but lets say it was Eutectic Tin-Lead with RA flux. I have a full range of liquid fluxes available to me on the electronics bench supply, I pour the liquid flux from the gallon containers into a small glass brush applicator bottle and mark the bottle. If when joining the wires you add some liquid flux before soldering the solder will flow more easily. Just make sure to use the same flux that is in the wire solder. After soldering you can remove the solder residue if you feel it will be a problem. For joining wires, I have never had a problem using RA flux. I like the RA flux over RMA or no clean because it is much better at removing oxidation. For doing soldering like this I like to use my portable (on a cart) PACE solder station. The large chisel tip is very effective and I think the iron puts out 120W. Your soldering iron looks cool, put I think I prefer my PACE station equipment.
The non-insulated butt crimps combined with regular heat shrink (and staggering the connections) make a much slimmer repair than the pre-insulated types.
It’s not always the first thing Ivan suspects, but his hit rate on first thought diagnosis is pretty dang impressive. This man is an impressive professional, to say the least.
Seeing both TPS codes and then the non OEM wiring was a big red flag 😁
We do a lot of butt connectors on aircraft, but the correct crimp tool and crimp tube Must be used!
Ivan i have a mk5 jetta same platform as the golf common problems throttle pedal throttle body and the vacuum actuator on the manifold all will throw the same codes as you just showed got to love euro trash 😁😂 cheers from down under
Seen an interesting tool yesterday from matco, it's a wire soldering clamp that holds the ends of both wires and feeds the solder out of the handle of the tool when twisted. All the wires being the same color looked like an OEM connector repair done badly. I've recently tried some of scanner Danners solder heat shrink connectors they seem to work well so far.
Those connectors are cool. I do have concerns about the longevity given the solder has to have a lower melting point than normal solder. Probably not an issue in most applications.
@@_RiseAgainst I don't like them either, the low temperature solder doesn't seem to wet the copper very well and there doesn't seem to be enough solder to form a nice joint. Tried them a few times and then went back to non-insulated crimps and regular heatshrink.
@@_RiseAgainst I have not had an issue with them failing yet as long as you make sure the wires are overlapping the solder. I always pull test them when cool. The low temp is good for when you have to repair a harness wire that’s bunched in with other wires I use a heat gun with a shield without damage to the other wires.
Ivan's soldered wire vs Eric O's butt connector in a Kieth tug test.
Game on lol
My throttle cables work great.
GOOD ONE ,,,,,,, 👍👍👍
As a factory tech for VWgoa. The previous repair was unacceptable and not to our standards. The one when you got the car. Factory standards are to replace the entire harness. Or if you decide to fix it do it correctly. Ps not you you did a good repair and great video
Real car Ivan 🍺🍺
I use the heat shrink tubing that has the solder integrated. This way once you heat them up they solder and seal themselves. Easy. But yeah.....I've been there. Sometimes you don't find that faulty wiring job until 2 hours in.
I want to see the solder wick into the wire strands before covering them with wrap... :)
@Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics the shrink tubing is clear so you can see it melt into the wire.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I tried the heat shrink with solder connectors Edwin is talking about. The outer heat shrink was clear so you could see the solder melt. The tubing shrunk way before the solder ball melted and the tubing was fried to heck. Maybe will try another brand but I was not impressed.
I used butt connectors to repair my MAF sensor wires that got chewed by something. Been fine for over a year and 5k miles. We'll see how it continues to go
Do butt connectors work if using the proper ratcheting crimping tool? Eric O uses them a decent amount and I put SMA up there with PHAD as my favorite auto diagnostic channels.
You need the proper type, or it will fail all the time.
Eric from South Main Auto and this Guy is what Mechanics should be 🇺🇸👍.
Wrenching with Kenny also disapproves of soldering, said he's never had a crimped connector return. IMHO, those wires were too small for the connectosr or the connectors were too large for the wires.
I prefer to solder. but the self soldering & sealing butt connectors work fine if used correctly. They have a glue in which self seals the repair.
@@jeffryblackmon4846 I've seen lots of issues with butt splices purchased on Amazon where the metal is just too thin which causes an incomplete crimp with most crimping tools. I have found that most butt spices that explicitly specify the wall thickness of the copper are usually pretty good buys.
Ivan,👍👍👍.
Hey ya better talk to Eric O on the butt connectors. They do work if you do them correctly. I’ve never had a problem with them. Just take your time they’ll do the job.
Like My old automotive teacher used to say. CONNECTIONS CONNECTIONS CONNECTIONS.
Some folks just do not know !
Good deal
All v/w main dealers use yellow wires and crimp connectors soldering wiring was stopped i fhink in 1986 or 87
It was Eric O. I see him using them all the time. lol
On vw the tps sensor voltages always have to add up to 5v +/- .1v do the math at closed, wot, and mid throttle and that will give you an idea
That yellow wirings are VW repair wiring kit done by dealer.VW not allowed to use soldering irons.Technician forgot to use yellow electric tape too.
I guess VW likes comebacks to keep the dealerships busy 😅
Ivan, I haven't seen you repairing any zoom booms lately. Did they become reliable all of a sudden and/or are they getting better maintenance? I would love to see another zoom boom or scissor ✂️ lift repair.
What is a zoom boom? Honest question.
Jobsite JLG brand lifts used on construction sites.
Sadly, that is the factory repair. There was a TSB covering many VWs of that generation for faulty throttle body wiring. What you repaired was actually what VW instructed their techs to use to update the harness. I have never agreed with using butt connectors on critical, permanent wiring in a car.
Wondering if Eric O is watching :-) im throwing my butt connectors in thr trash.. great video
Which small soldering iron is that you use?
Ivan do you ever use the heatshrink with the internal glue lining so that joins are even more waterproof?
That's the only type I stock 👍
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics do you guys call it "dual wall" as well? It's the Aussie term I'm used to.
Eric O uses those things.
The great butt connector debate! I was taught years ago if it is a light fixture on a trailer that will end up being replaced in two years butt connect if it will be anything that exists to a computer or permanent then do it right!
Looked like the one throttle reading actually went from 88 to 83 then 81 when you wiggled the wiring.
What VPI Mike said.
You and Eric O say the exact opposite about butt connectors. Who should I trust lol?
Yellow wires are the goto when doing repairs at VW dealers .
I put in an aftermarket radio where I SOLDERED every single lead!
Eh, tx6/1 you call a common wire looks like a sense wire from the ECU (through a sense resistor) to one of the potentiometers... tx6/2 and /6 look to be the 'common' 5V and GND...
Ha good catch!!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I figure reading the wiring diagram with a customer hanging around behind you in the field isn't as easy as from the armchair ;D Was watching an old video with the 04 RAM truck with the bad power window controls and the dodgy lockout switch with the UTTERLY mixed up Chrysler wiring diagram that had you going down a rabbit hole for a moment... Checked my 04 Grand Cherokee one, and sure enough, even though it was a different diagram, multiple switch arms were drawn in the wrong orientation and connections reversed making no electrical sense. That one I don't understand how the engineer? drawing them even imagined it like that, it makes no sense... unless they draw with building block icons and just slap the together to 'look' nice... Always need to keep a sharp logic check/review going when following the electrical diagrams... I'm sure for someone 'new' who trusts the OEM as gospel would lead to a bad day...
Butt connectors are for car stereos