The Atheist Experience 753 with Matt Dillahunty and David Smalley
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- čas přidán 30. 07. 2024
- Guest David Smalley talks about his Dogma Debate podcast and other efforts through American Atheists.
SHOW TIME-STAMPS
00:43- Intro & Announcements- Matt Dillahunty
03:40- Guest David Smalley on his Dogma Debate and work with American Atheists
06:59- Johanan (theist from episode 675): quantum computers and artificial intelligence, earth is a quantum computer and we might be in a simulation
20:09- Ed (atheist): calls in to add to argument of evil, there doesn't have to be conservation of energy, if God exists, he created a cruel universe
25:19- Trevor (atheist): the term 'atheist', Jesus would have left carpentry if he existed
28:52- Joan (atheist): has observed many mean theists
37:35- Danny: asks for sites or books which debunk the Hindu religion, is it responsible to be an atheist who hasn't studied the Bible and other holy books
42:52- Jonathan: being alive is an occurrence which will probably happen again
47:52- Gavin (theist): asks why the hosts produce the show, asks if they expect there will one day be a call which proves God
You can read more about this episode on the Atheist Experience blog:
► freethoughtblogs.com/axp/2012/...
WHAT IS THE ATHEIST EXPERIENCE?
The Atheist Experience is a weekly cable access television show in Austin, Texas geared at a non-atheist audience. The Atheist Experience is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin.
The Atheist Community of Austin is organized as a nonprofit educational corporation to develop and support the atheist community, to provide opportunities for socializing and friendship, to promote secular viewpoints, to encourage positive atheist culture, to defend the first amendment principle of state-church separation, to oppose discrimination against atheists and to work with other organizations in pursuit of common goals.
We define atheism as the lack of belief in gods. This definition also encompasses what most people call agnosticism.
VISIT THE ACA'S OFFICIAL WEB SITES
► www.atheist-community.org (The Atheist Community of Austin)
► www.atheist-experience.com (The Atheist Experience TV Show)
More shows and video clips can be found in the archive:
► www.atheist-experience.com/arc...
DVDs of the Atheist Experience can be purchased via:
► www.atheist-community.org/prod...
MUSIC CREDITS
Theme song: "Listen to Reason," written and performed by Bryan Steeksma.
► / bryansteeksma
► www.myspace.com/bryansteeksma
NOTES
TheAtheistExperience is a fan appreciation channel on CZcams.
"The Atheist Experience" is a registered trademark of the ACA.
Creative Commons license: BY, NC, SA
► creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
"Catholics are encouraged not to read the bible, while protestants are encouraged not to read anything else." Great Line!!!
i love when a caller says something like:
- well (blabla) is like (blabla) right? we agree that far?
- mmh..... no...
- .............. well blabla???
- no, no i don't agree.
- ........ *tries to figure out a way to tapdance around the disagreement*
I could only listen to Kermit the Frog talk about quantum computing and simulation for so long before I had to skip ahead.
+Bryan514
LOL....man my chest hurts and I've got tears in my eyes. You sir have made my day.
Also I knew where he was going with it so I skipped ahead because his "hypothetical" proves nothing.
i went to the kitchen and made a cup of tea cos really he might speak for days but there's only three minutes actual content.
same
tl;dr version of the first caller: The less someone has to say, the longer it takes them so say it.
you said it perfectly. They just...wow. yeah I don't even know where to begin with that one
"i have just one quick question....
...and my life story"
I had never heard of David Smalley or Dogma Debate before watching this show. Now I'm watching a bunch of his vids. Thanx for introducing me.
Is Johanan done? I fell asleep.
I'm starting to see why they disabled the comments on their later videos.
Johnathan from Auburn, WA. If you're reading this, fair play to you matey. You're the first caller I've heard on this show that gets the point.
The point ISN'T being 100% right 100% of the time. The point is challenging, adjusting and outright changing your own beliefs through civil dialogue. This is VERY hard to do! Especially nice ideas.
Don't feel bad, don't feel stupid. You aren't. You have my respect. I'd way sooner talk to you than 99% of the callers on this show, from EITHER side.
This episode took me from losing the will to live to havin a big goofy grin on my face. It's good to see that there are still people out there who're at least thinking in the right direction and asking the questions.
best show yet! love you guys :D
Most people who claimed to be atheist before before becoming Christian are confusing not being a Christian (or saved, if you will) as being an atheist. This is simply not true. Before I became a Christian I wasn't an atheist. I just didn't care, either way. But, before becoming an atheist, I was definitely a Christian.
I think, because so many of us atheists are ex-Christians the Christians are wanting to try and even the score by saying they are converted atheists. It's the lying for Jesus schtick.
This has been the most entertaining episode of the atheist experience that I have watched. The callers, the co-host, and of course Matt, plus someone capable of accepting that they're wrong. Excellent.
Great show!
Joans call was one of the best yet on the show, I really dug that one
I gotta say that the whole "god" or "higher power" thing in AA was such a huge turn off for me. Thank goodness I still got sober. Took a trip to the hospital but sober nonetheless :) Looking to start an atheist group in my community. Any tips or ideas on what to do after and besides creating a FB please let me know! How to promote? I need to find leadership types as I am a very busy and can in now way pull this all together by myself LOL
+Clarice Rachelle What need would the group fill? What is your goal and intention in forming a group?
Well I suppose I want to provide a community of freethinkers to come out of the closet, share ideas, provide opportunities for education, and social, humanitarian type, community services. A progressive community :)
+Clarice Rachelle you go girl! how about just creating a basic discussion group via "meetup" site. keep it simple and just get people together to talk and grow from there. what ever you decide to do I wish you good vibes and success. do your thang :)
A.A. is nota religious organization
AA has spiritual/religious dogma in its structure, yes.
I love watching these guys.
the guy from 51 minutes in taught me so much about human nature,he was just a good guy who wants the best for everyone.really good to hear,I like to be that way too.
I use to watch you guys all the time when I was a kid even tho my mom was a christian banned me from watching and got kicked out of christian summer camps for using your quotes. But now I can't find your show on AT&T uverse. You guys are the reason I became and Atheist when I was 13. And I thank you for that. Much love from South ATX. :)
Wish the after show calls where posted - even if it is just radio style.
Best show in a long time.
I love these.
I love the laughter of other people in the studio, show is even better with a laugh-track, now it just needs more whacky sound effects.
Come on people, this HAS to be the most inspirational AA show yet! Interesting people, great arguments and alot of comedy! :)
The show should always have an audience! The laugh track is infectious!
I think it was the same lady. I remember: Maine, acquaintance with unfriendly religious nurses in hospital, only business in small town, afraid of peers finding out she's atheist, she loves the show. Same story we heard before.
But yeah, she basically told everyone exactly where she works. If discrimination is a genuine threat, her unnecessarily informative calls put her at risk.
Yeah I confirmed you are correct..thank you for explaining.
one of the best things about Matt is he does the best response then somehow adds a little extra!
Ah, great show! Applause all around!
I once thought about roughly the same hypothetical as the first caller for a short time, but ultimately found a few logical inconsistencies with an infinite progression of simulations.
Firstly, the computational complexity would drop with each successive iteration, most likely by several orders of magnitude. I like to explain this as "a computer can never simulate itself". Even if the laws of entropy did not apply and it was physically possible to devote all of the computational power of one universe towards simulating another, there would be no intelligence to actually carry out the simulation. Therefore, each embedded simulation would be progressively smaller and less complex, to the point where it is no longer possible to carry out any meaningful simulation.
Secondly, whenever you deal with infinity, probability really tends to ruin your day. If we were a part of an infinite chain of simulations, it would be infinitely unlikely at any moment that every simulation upon which we depend would continue to run.
that last caller was a nice breath of fresh air.
You are a wise man. I am glad we sorted that out. ^_^
You need him on the show more!
I like hearing the audiance
18:52-19:21 Matt says in 29 seconds what took that caller 15 minutes to badly articulate. Matt is so much smarter and more patient than anyone else I've seen talk on this subject matter.
David's awesome, I hope they have him back.
This is the funniest episode I've ever watched!
I love these guys :)
I'd liked to have heard more from David. Please get him on again and let him take a more active role in answering the callers, especially from the theists. Thanks
I love it when we can hear the laughter in the background. XD
Yeah, I agree. I made that comment before I watched the show.
After seeing it, while I do not immediately denounce the idea that we are a computer simulation that is so complex that we can't tell... if that is in fact the case, why bother assuming it? If we can't tell either way, it would be most productive to simply assume we're not.
My two favorite dudes!!!!
This episode reminds me of the movie Coneheads for some reason.
this is all we have!!!!!! Take that theist!!!!!!
The concept the first caller presented was great fun - I love that kind of stuff but, again - as with virtually all theistic arguments, it is a god of the gaps argument. We don't know, therefore "this". That doesn't stop it from being a hell of a lot of fun though.
I have been watching these for years and have now seen the callers as very simple and repetitive arguments that, I assume must be difficult to grasp by humans. Well basically these videos have taught me to see through the bullshit justifications so clearly that i dont need to sit through these hour long episodes anymore and would just like to say thank you Matt and the team for making these available. My eyes are now open cheers.
That last caller(before the guy at the very end) was pretty cool.
that first call made me LMAO XD
Gavin from Annapolis sounds like a great guy - self aware, open minded, knows what he doesn't know. I hope he learns more as time goes by.
haha that first rant was hilarious, just a freaking laundry list of hypotheticals..
I agree with Joan from Maine, in my experience at the work place, many Christians I encountered on the job were some of the meanest most cruel people you would ever meet, they just had a few rules they adhered to that non religious people didn't.....
Many Christians abuse that phrase "I'm not perfect, I'm forgiven!!!"
wow, i was totally unaware. Is there a website proving this?
Good luck Joan!!!
the theist caller at the end needs to let me buy him a beer.
thanks!
April 28th, Madison, Wisconsin. Finally, something nearby! Hopefully I can get a ride...
wow. That show WAS good!!
hm... Dogma Debate... I guess I need to google that one soon ;-)
you did a good thing.
The caller who wanted information on debunking Hinduism apparently never heard of Google. Simply search on "debunking Hinduism" and several sites come up immediately.
The first caller totally inadvertently dismissed Kalam!! LOL!!!
Once Miss Piggy left him Kermit went a little crazy.
that first caller should make a movie or something cause that concept sounds like it would make a interesting movie, like the trumin show
Johanon has no bass in his frog voice at all. Balls Havnt dropped
I hope you don't mind me bringing this conversation back, but I recently learned that there is a fallacy specifically for the argument that he made. It's called a base rate fallacy. It's making a probability judgement based on conditional probability. In other words, he said something is more probable if something else happens, but that something else has not happened.
The nurse with th store has called in before. I call shenanigans!
Callers: 06:58 a theist on quantum Matrix-like reality simulations and AI, 20:07 about argument of evil and conservation of energy, 25:18 about apatheism and about Jesus being a bad carpenter (this one is actually funny), 28:49 about mean Christians, 37:34 about Hinduism and ex-atheists, 42:51 about reincarnation, 47:47 about why atheists care.
Thumbs up so it stays on top.
I like this song so much better than the one they're using nowadays.
thumbs up from Poland
I agree.
Amazing how many people here are in the comments section are dissing him out of hand as a crank.
Sure what he is talking about is just a science fiction fantasy but I still thought Matt was too rude to him.
If you want to learn more about his ideas check out Ray Kurzweil, Frank Tipler, Teilhard De Chardin
The GREAT DEBATING SOCIETY!!
David's comments at 32:40 = SPOT ON.
Also, regarding the reincarnation issue- one can actually compute the number of quantum states a certain volume of space can have, and (for a 1m^3 volume, which is roughly the size of a human) it is somewhere around 10^(10^80). That means that to be, more or less, certain that there is (or was) another "occurrence" of yourself the universe would have to be roughly 10^(10^80)m- it is nowhere near that size.
I think an example will clarify: think of 1 pound on a barbell - it's not heavy - add another pound repeatedly and heaviness will begin to exist. We use the same word "exist" for heaviness existing and a molecule existing but in different senses. Concepts do not have casual power in the sense that a number can't power a motorcycle. I don't know who or if anyone has said a diety causes existence, but I would extend the courtesy that they meant the natural universe.
My point was that there are two different senses in which the word "existence" is used and that we shouldn't treat them as the same.
at 8:43, David's look and the sigh is both amusing and saddening because he (and we) all knew where the argument was going before it really started.
Caller one is almost exactly describing the movie the 13th floor
I need to create a lengthy mathematical hypothesis on the probability that David's voice is actually just low quality, and he doesn't simply have a bad mic.
it''s the never ending hypothetical situation!
First caller is a great example of the dangers of telling yourself a story in total solitude over and over again... You notice how probable and sound he seems to think the whole incoherent hypothesis is? Every time that he rehearsed it in his head, with no one to bounce it off of, the more familiar and comfortable and understandable it was to him, and ONLY HIM. You must let people listen and object to the things you haven't thought to question yourself.
i would have just asked if the first caller had ever played "Spore"...
18:40 This sounds like an episode of Futurama
The significant question in relation to artificial intelligence and artificial universes is not so much whether such things are possible, but how much energy or entropy each one will cost. It seems clear enough that any simulated universe would necessarily be less complex than the real universe, and that there is a trade-off between the quantity of simulations and their fidelity. This it seems to me would significantly limit the probability that we are in one.
Please do tell me about these laws of the universe that you speak of. As far as the science books that I speak of if we'll start off with books on astrophysics.
1.) It would imply that we may very well be in a simulation. Even the scientist who found it, James Gates, suggested it may be some kind of simulation artifact.
2.) Yes it does. The HG applies to space in general, and when you apply it to de-Sitter space on the whole you get the holographic universe.
3.)The Orch-OR argument is an argument for panentheism specifically.
I think I did not clarify what I meant by concepts as causes. When I say concept I meant the instances of concepts - America as an instance of democracy, color of banana as an instance of yellow. I agree without concrete examples concepts are just abstract ideas that do not mean much. But I must defend my use of the world concept, because when we talk about some concepts relative to the reality, we are almost always referring to some particular instance of it.
Damn wow that's a long time ago...
Go to 18:25 to skip Johanan's call.
johanan needs to join the real world
Haha yeah - the a priori vs post priori or temporal aspect isn't the only way this argument diverges from the typical definition. It's focused more on the omniscient and omnipotent aspects. If you push it a bit you'll question those aspects as well - just because we build UT simulators in the future doesn't automatically grant us complete knowledge or complete control of everything contained (an understandable mistake of our inductive reasoning - we've never built "living" things before)...
To summarize: when we are talking about existence we need to differentiate the existence of concepts and the existence of causal things. We use the same word "existence" but they are used in two different senses here. Existing as concept is not particularly interesting: God exists as a concept. In the context of God's existence we are concerned with causal things. So is existence temporal in this context?
And by the way, that story the first caller had... it's actually a nifty piece of sci fi. Very exciting if done well in a novel or movie. It's just not an argument.
if that first caller reads this, you should look up Feynman's lecture (in black and white) on the scientific method. Especially the bit when the laymen tell the lock technician "Hey you should try 10 20 30". Because this is what you are doing.
I provide an hypothetical construct - a dot 3D space with out time, and talked about how if it were to exist, it cannot be cause to some effect. Now add time, at t = 0, there is no dot, at t = 1, a dot is placed in at (1,1,1). The dot is a factor in causing the space to contain an entity between the duration of t = 0 and t = 1. It is a cause. This is as abstract as it gets, but it demonstrates causality as soon as we introduce time.
and the third caller was a blast! hahahahahaha
Concepts can be argued not to ever be a cause to effects. For example, one can argue (I usually do) that the brain being physical matter and energy, each subject to cause and effect, have no real "choice" in what they do. We're essentially pre-programed, but lack the ability to count for all variables to predict human thought and reactions, so our pre-programming is not too much of an issue to us in general. However that means concepts are just our interpretation of physical cause and effect.
I looked it up - It looks like it's called the freethought festival, and it's free to attend.
7:00 -20:00 Insert Matrix argument, CALL OVER, NEXT!
Geez, that was just painful
amazing
The omega point argument is actually quite an interesting thought / theoretical experiment, I actually enjoyed the discussion. It's unfortunate that we can't all easily get into the math the caller was referring to (it certainly wouldn't be easy for me). To be fair, theoretical physics is clearly beyond the scope of the show, it'll be interesting if some of these things start to come about over the next few decades.
I found this in the back yard and I'm like...BOOM! god...
There is nothing "created" only a re-arrangement of what already exist. It simply is,until we understand how anything started, if it did at all then we do not know. You can assign a creator to it, but that still begs the question for those of us who do not think that a creator is the answer.
Clarification: what I mean by a quantum computer is something which is specifically designed for the task of quantum computing. The universe being interpreted as a quantum computer is not the same as this.