The Atheist Experience 737 with Matt Dillahunty and Don Baker
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- čas přidán 28. 11. 2011
- The Atheist Experience 737 for November 27, 2011 with Matt Dillahunty and Don Baker.
Don looks at the failure of the Catholic Church to deal with its child molestation problems.
SHOW TIME-STAMPS
00:47- Intro & Announcements - Matt Dillahunty
05:45- Don Baker on Failures of Christianity - Pedophilia Failure
22:19- Michael: speaking to Mormons, is uncertain of atheism due to having a profound experience
36:08- Dean: taboos around criticizing religious belief
46:55- Cesar (theist): self-awareness proves God, reasons for believing in God, DNA is a language
Read more about this episode on the Atheist Experience blog:
► freethoughtblogs.com/axp/2011/...
WHAT IS THE ATHEIST EXPERIENCE?
The Atheist Experience is a weekly cable access television show in Austin, Texas geared at a non-atheist audience. The Atheist Experience is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin. The Atheist Community of Austin is organized as a nonprofit educational corporation to develop and support the atheist community, to provide opportunities for socializing and friendship, to promote secular viewpoints, to encourage positive atheist culture, to defend the first amendment principle of state-church separation, to oppose discrimination against atheists and to work with other organizations in pursuit of common goals.
VISIT THE ACA'S OFFICIAL WEB SITES
► www.atheist-community.org (The Atheist Community of Austin)
► www.atheist-experience.com (The Atheist Experience TV Show)
More shows and video clips can be found in the archive:
► www.atheist-experience.com/arc...
DVDs of the Atheist Experience can be purchased via:
► www.atheist-community.org/prod...
MUSIC CREDITS
Theme song: "Listen to Reason," written and performed by Bryan Steeksma.
► / bryansteeksma
► www.myspace.com/bryansteeksma
NOTES
TheAtheistExperience is a fan appreciation channel on CZcams.
"The Atheist Experience" is a registered trademark of the ACA.
Creative Commons license: BY, NC, SA
► creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
From experience, I gotta beg everyone, DO NOT get involved with someone who would ask you to convert to their religion against your will. I did this and was nearly destroyed for my trouble. I am not exaggerating, it never ends well.
Phelan Wrong with their priorities? I agree. But exactly in line with Biblical priorities. And not even "oh, but that's the Old Testament" ones. JC wants you to hate your mom, dad, spouse, etc. (something about: at least in relation to your love of God...but not that simple. And not worth the effort to look up & explain.
If the shoe were on the other foot, you'd be authorized by God to kill them for that. If someone, even your wife, try to convince you to worship another God (other than Me, Yahweh), thou shalt kill 'em.
Phelan Well cults commonly say "turn your back on your family". That's survival doctrine for them. But "hate so we can convince you to kill" is more tribe vs tribe. Or nations or ideologies. Hate your family doesn't feature much in that equation.
Heard, but marriage will do that without religion.
Don Baker laughing always makes me feel good.
Matt: "How did you determine that that was the cause?"
Caller: "DOH! ya got me there!"
I like listening to Don, he hardly ever gets to speak when Matt is there, mostly because many callers would rather try debating Matt, (and end up making complete asses of themselves which makes great clips fro CZcams lol) but Don is a super smart, articulate guy, plus he's a super good dude and has a great sense of humor. 👍😇
~ ~ Eight years later, and Don and Matt still making perfect sense (thank you). The Catholic Church in 2019 STILL has no clue how to properly address the child molesters hugely in their midst. This older video was preceded by an advert for the new Twilight Zone: that I truly believe is where many if not all the callers to TAE come from! Cheers, DAVEDJ ~ ~
First caller @ 22.20 :)
Yet again another great episode! Nice work Don, Matt and the crew!
Dillahunty is brilliant, and always sincere and thoughtful in his responses. Appreciate the interesting discussions and the information.
That is my favorite argument when dealing with those that try to convert me.
If God exists why does he lets things like this happen in his own home? If God does exist it would be a monstrous evil that I would actively fight against.
"we have a fundemantal missunderstanding"
"yes, one of us understands science.."
Had to pause I was laughing so much lol
Damn what have you been up to since you made this comment 9 years ago?
The first half of the show was some of your best work. Excellent first call-in to work with.
Thank you, AE, for helping me come out!
I absolutely love the topic around 27:00 with the caller considering profound experiences as potential evidence for a particular god. There are so many simple, logical refutations for this 'evidence' that we often forget it, but profundity is a cool sensation to feel and can easily bypass critical reasoning if one is not careful.
I've looked at a fire I had going and then up at the starry sky. I had a profound sensation that I was looking at representations of the extremes of human society, from the first man-made fire to our destiny in the stars. It wasn't necessarily related to anything true (What if humans were using tools for a long time before harnessing fire or what if we never actually explore other stars, for instance?) but it felt HUGE, subjectively larger than what one person can contain. But no one around me felt the same thing for the same reason so it was only reasonable to assume that it was most likely just a human emotion that I rarely experience and had little context for.
If I was manipulated into feeling that in a religious context I can see that causing some confusion, though ultimately what I feel doesn't dictate what I believe, rather what can be demonstrated to be in line with reality. No matter how profound a religious feeling could ever be for me it still wouldn't make sense to tell me it's a particular deity because I would STILL be asking "How do you know this isn't a product of my brain?" "How do you know it's any kind of magical entity?" and especially "How could you possibly conclude that it's this particular deity?"
Enjoyed your very perceptive post. I bet that was an awesome experience-humans huddled around the fires we had just began to master thru to U.S.S Enterprize boldly going in one glance from bonfire to sky! Your writings very evocative,you should do more. :)
47:00 Cesar says he has this theory. "And don't worry if you don't understand it" I suspect he meant "okay, mattie, this may be a little over your head, but I'll try to explain". Reality: we can't understand it/him because we have more than 6 neurons to rub together. And the gulf is too vast to allow communication.
excellent show, especially ol matt, you are quite intelligent sir and i greatly appreciate all that you guys do. cheers from san diego
First time ever that I subscribe to anything on youtube and signed in just to comment....because I love this show!
Matt is better than anyone else that talks on this show, in my opinion. No offence to anyone else on the show.
No doubt he's the star and I think all other hosts there'd agree with that
Jen is good too!
RideWithKawi I like Matt’s arguments fine.What I don’t like is his bullying nature and tactics. He is too impatient and disrespectful way too frequently.
Can't stand Cesar's voice !.
another awesome show! luv it!
"The lack of evidence for something, is not evidence for something else." Pretty much sums it all up.
Matt is wrong here. Lot was referred to in the New Testament as a righteous man, long after his father-daughter shenanigans.
who gives a shit you cant even provide evidence that Lot even existed
+kwj171068 its relevant in regards to how Christians feel about the legitimacy of their book, and if someone as immoral as the character of Lot is still regarded as a righteous man it shows how maladjusted their moral values are.
+Rob Hunter It doesn't matter, God has foresight, so he knew what Lot was going to do before he did it.
+Rob Hunter That's what I thought, but I don't give a shit so I would've been too lazy to check.
+kwj171068 yeah but the book still exists and so does the story and there are facts about what took place in that story and that book. So the argument is about whether Don was correct about the story in the book, and therefore how immoral it is, NOT about whether the whole thing is a fairy tale or not (it is). Ok you IDIOT?
Matt's near miraculous refutation of Cesar's fairly well articulated account of his predetermined world view was as good as I've seen. Nice to have him as a warrior for reason.
+dlevitt0508 you should see some of his debates. He's very well spoken.
@CoboWowbo Nice to see that someone picked up my trend! =D
what is person called, if he dont believe in religion, but believes in god? and what is teist?.
I like the background for the ending.
Thanks Matt and Thanks Don. It would have been nice to have had 1 more religious caller, but the guy that said he was an atheist but was a mormon, talking about his prayer experience kinda balanced the ratio out. Keep up the good work.
This is the first NZ caller I've seen on the show and I'm proud to note how well he comported and expressed himself. Kia ora Dean.
the saddest part of this story is that of the priests who were charged many received no jail time and were just shuffled around by the church and sent to other communities where they were able to continue to do what they do
we all do brother. whether you are awake to it or not is your responsibility. look into it because it is fascinating learning what is hidden but the reality we live with
PT 2 - no chariots have been found, just some coral formations that resemble wheels. Even if these are wheels, they could be jetsam, or objects from a sunken ship. This actually the only evidence you cite that has ANY chance of being anything but the reverse of what you think. Myths tend to follow and explain natural things that primitives didn't understand. IF an Egyptian army (and not just vaguely wheel shaped corals) were found, it might support some event - not necessarily your story.
@TempleOfInanna2
good point. I've come to the realisation that praying is just convincing yourself that YOU will make it through whatever you going through.not some external power or force.it's probably the best placebo on earth.
"We have a fundamental misunderstanding - YES! One of us understands science!" Lol
I'm surprised with so many old school punishments for bad behavior, you'd think priests who molest kids would be cast out or excommunicated for serving the devil, or being of the devil. It has always confused me that no one in the church had taken a stand calling this crime as evil, as serving the devil's whims. But apparently no one had the balls to do so, or they were shut down quickly.
When I believed in God when I prayed it was a very intense experience and I felt warm calm and sometimes heard voices. Now when I try to pray if feel sort of warm and calm. That's not God, that's just slowing down and going into a semi-meditative state of relaxation, and if I put on the right music along with that the experience is better than any prayer I've even done.
Yay! We got a call from Cesar! He's always funny.
Helpful. Thank you xD
Finally a New Zealander on the show! Represent!
I loved Matt's last debate. Does anyone no where i can find the next one?
@BigerFaterTony kiitos, yes im Finnish :) im glad hosts are so inspirational personalitys and do actually know about this stuff.. a lot.
I have never heard a single illogical argument from an atheist. They always make sense to me. Their observations are plainly intelligent, objective, and always challenging in the best sense of that word. Matt and John are awesome and they get you to think if you will only open your mind and "LISTEN".
When a sweet little dog wandered in to my place, I did all I could to get her back to her people. However, I told my kids that she'd be back in a couple of weeks and we'd keep her then. She did come back and we did keep her. MIRACLE!! ( actual true story by the way.)
Cesar: "This is my argument." - "I don't want to argue."
Re "the sixth sense" Yes, humans have more than 5 senses. Touch, ability to detect heat, ability to detect cold, sight, hearing, ability to detect static electrical fields (the effects on our hair), ability to detect electrical current running through our bodies, ability to detect changes in altitude/air pressure (ears popping), smell, taste, ability to tell where our muscles are (proprioception), etc.
That is NOT even close to what he said. He said that complex chemical interactions are not a language in the sense that the caller implied. there is "information" in almost anything. The shape of a hole in the ground determines the shape that a puddle will take. This is not information in the traditional sense, but it can be expressed either linguistically or mathematically as if it were a language. It is still molecules acting according to natural law and does not require intelligence.
A person can be very observant and notice things (even subconsciously), can make very good guesses when something might go wrong. That "gut feeling" could be the result of this, or just fears, doubts etc.
49:44 LMAO
Ceasar -"Well, that's not my only reason."
Matt- "Well, why don't you give us your best reason."
Cesar- Blah Blah Blah
Matt- Pwnage! Pwnage! Pwnage!
thank you :D
06:35 Don - Catholic Pederasty Failure
22:18 Michael - Mormon > Atheist Marry Mormon woman. Reconvert? Prayed and "felt something". Miracles...
36:05 Dean (NZ) Taboo on criticizing Bible. "Atheist" label. Harris.
47:05 *CESAR!!* Self-awareness must be eternal. Fine tuning, resurrection, NDE's
It's not an episode until Matt says, "Hang on, Hang on, Hang on.... Hang on, Hang on!"
If you set aside logic and reason, yes.
Who else got the Reformation Bible College ad before this?
21:40 first call. your welcome
LOL! Well done!
No, it's a very important distinction. And the laws vary from state to state and country to country.
Cancer copies itself. I'd like to know what Cesar would like to say about who created it, who programmed it, why they would that, and a whole bunch of other important questions.
Me too!
After a while if you're not paying attention and they are just talking their words begin to collide together and I just go to sleep. Works better than any med that I've ever been on in my life haha.
that hard boiled egg is the most outspoken against religion i've ever come across.
Is there any way to see the end of the discussion with Cesar done after the show ?
One day when I was little and still in sunday school, I stayed in the church after everyone left. From the back room of the church, I heard what sounded like a kid crying. This crying turned into screaming seconds later, and I could just barely make out my church's priest saying things like "quite" and "shhh". I never forgot that, and the thought of a child possibly being raped chills my sole.
@grozde - you're preaching to the choir dude! : )
It's really revealing to see how often examples of supposed extrasensory perception or spiritual experiences or whatever are actually something as mundane as unconscious processing, like intuition for instance. People really don't give the brain enough credit for what it can accomplish without our consciousness being involved.
Of course there's also the danger of trusting the output of your unconscious processes too much.
It's called Listen To Reason by Bryan Steeksma. As I understand it, it was written specially for the show,
Which animals have language? (Caesar's call) They can communicate - but does any animal have language?
Love the top comments!
Cesar is a prime example of the harm of religion.
(cont.) As an example, the gravity interactions between a planet and a star allow us to estimate the mass of the planet. This is information about the planet, it doesn’t imply that the planet, star or gravity is information. In a sense it is only information when it is observed (in the sense of the tree falling in the woods).
@Jonstern1983 By hooey, they're talking about it being used as evidence of an afterlife. The claim that near death experiences are evidence for the afterlife, IS hooey. Cesar has called in several times before, and stated NDE's are a main reason he believes in god, which the hosts find absurd, and I highly agree.
The original broadcast abruptly cut off several minutes before the end of the show. Why did this happen?
At ~29:00 they're talking about how those who knew they were being prayed for did worse and speculate it may be due to performance anxiety. Another logical reason is that those who actually believe prayer works and knew they were being prayed for stopped struggling and just "put in it the hands of god". Instead of actively fighting and using human strength and spirit, they left it up to an invisible skydaddy. That which does not exist cannot help that which does.
@sachamm No, its not like a book, unless the book would be filled with garbage. There is no synstax in DNA or sentence or anything that makes it a langauge. It is missing lots of things that come from langauge. So the book example does not work. Unless someone scribbled a book with random letters and sometimes the letters are a word.
@NathanWubs DNA is a mechanism to store information, just as a book is a mechanism to store information.
I can code the contents of a book into DNA (this has already been done).
Similarly, I can write the contents of a DNA strand into a book (this has also been done).
From the perspective of information, you can see that there is no difference between a DNA strand and a book.
As a non-believer in a family full of catholics/christians, im strongly against teaching religion in school, and children being involved in the church whatsoever. Indoctrination is one of the biggest problems with religious methods. My uncle recently told his 4 yr old that if he doesnt go to church before easter he will go to hell for disrespecting the lord. Cont...
Show starts around 6:30, first caller at 22:20
@SEThatered I've heard various 6th and 7th senses. I mean sense of balance makes.. sense! haha You are interpreting an input (gravity) as that gravity pulls the liquid in your inner ear in diff directions. I think Ray Comfort said the 6th sense was "common sense". But I'd say any kind of organ that could receive input could be a sense (besides the indirect one the brain). Something that receives direct stimulus from the environment.
Do you have a source for that information? Not necessarily because i don't believe you, but because i was having a private discussion about this topic (sparked by the pope and his retirement) a few days ago and would love to have some legitimate numbers about this (and couldn't find anything good .... damn you Google!). Any verifiable info you have about this would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance :)
I now have a mental image of Matt and Sam having a punch up, both screaming "No, I agree with *you* more!"
Even simpler: an assertion made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence..
and then the barman says "Welcome back Sir."
@ClumsyRoot I was referring to how "Creationism" was redressed as "Intelligent Design" and billed as a school subject.
@Lobos222 Fair enough. It certainly is counterintuitive and plays with our expectations like a magic show does, but I don't know if I would call it a miracle.
- Sarah was 90 when she had Isaac (Gen 17:17)
- Rebecca is born AFTER Abraham tried to kill Isaac (Gen 22:20-23)
- Sarah dies shortly after at age 127 meaning that Isaac was 37 (Gen 23:1)
- Isaac marries Rebecca when he is 40 (Gen 25:20)
Christians may dispute that Sarah died immediately after Isaac almost was sacrificed - It's nevertheless an article of faith for many Jews that it was.
Isaac and Rebecca were cousins BTW - Rebeccas father was Nahor (Gen 22:23)
(cont)
in recent years many of the unmarked graves of these children have been discovered after claims by surviving victims were investigated. at first the church denied any knowledge and tried to say that the children died from natural causes and tried to cover it up refusing to take any responsibility or apologize. after a coroners inquest proving the children died from acts of violence the church did take some responsibility but still refused to apologize to the families and victims.
@MrKeenoRossi "Why do believers refuse to accept/acknowledge this?"
That's not an easy question. I don't think we have enough information on Ceasar's personal life [nor do I want to know] to have a better grasp on why he chooses to or shaped him into thinking the way he does.
I'll send you a PM with the details when I have the time to write it.
I dont believe in intelligent design, but I did find cesar's last point about how matt's analogy of the hand made clock's gears to information transferred and copied went straight into intelligent design interesting. What would be a better analogy for describing this?
@imthedonna does this happen only in the US or just the rest of the world
There are two gods. You guys are god of patience. I can hardly listen to stupid arguments, demagogy tricks, half learned crooked scientific claims, subject skipping and you do not understand blame game of callers. You actually sincerely listen to them and try to help them understand, Congratulations and thank you for your great work.
When you get intuition right your mind latches onto it, when you don't you discard it. If you a reasonable person about what to expect your intuition is better but the wins are amplified unlike the losses, so you have to be wrong a lot to recognize bad intuition on a personal level.
There are letters written by various catholic priests/bishops/cardinals specifically telling others to cover things up in order to avoid criminal investigation in order to handle it internally (late 90's, early 2000's). It's also still occurring around the world, with priests covering for each other and not reporting criminal activity when they know it's going on. When priests are held to the same standard as normal people and when they stop saying they're the moral ones, it won't be an issue.
I don't care, if someone does something destructive they should be held accountable, I don't care who it is. I don't care for excuses, I don't care for tradition, I don't care about doctrine, if someone does something harmful they need to be held accountable. When the different religious sects stop saying they're the moral ones with their holy book, while still committing immoral acts, it won't be a problem. When they're all held accountable for their actions, there won't be as big an issue.
I had the same issue as the first caller. I grew up Catholic and became an atheist. I eventually ran into another Christian and we were discussing the probability of God. Eventually, he says, "Deep down inside, you know God is real." And, to be fair, I 'DID' feel something. Was it God? ...I later realize I get this same feeling when walking around in the dark. I used to believe in the Bogeyman, and even though I'm old enough he's not real, I still have that irrational fear sometimes.
Where can I find the debate that Matt is talking about here?
@NathanWubs Except that DNA is not garbage, nor is it random. It is a set of information, just as the book is a set of information. Agreed, you can't read it in the same way, and there is no syntax or semantics in the same way a language has syntax or semantics, but they are both information in a general sense.
The deplorable thing is Governments across the globe refuse to act or even acknowledge this "catholic" problem.
Does this thing in Canada have a name or how can I look it up?
It's that they choose not to. It's much harder to think for yourself and figure out honestly the state of the universe, than it is to just get read at from of a book.
20:10 Where's the toile-UH, UHM, back away...
Is there a difference?
And your a very successful speller.
Water uses it's mind, reads the heat of the stove, turns into steam!