OFFICIAL Stark Varg BATTERY Range Test! How FAR can the Varg go?
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
- In this video, we find out how far the Stark Varg electric dirt bike can go on one full battery charge on a motocross track and enduro trail riding. One of the most controversial topics with the Stark Varg is battery life. This is the official battery range test on the new Stark Varg Electric Dirt Bike!
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Thanks to the test riders in this video:
Thunder Valley: Derek Anderson - / da241
IMI: Rob Imondi - / rob790 / / imondimx
Enduro: Tucker Neary - / electriccyclerider
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Is this the battery range you expected?
See the full Stark Varg Battery Test at ECR: bit.ly/StarkVargRangeTest
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Range is pretty much exactly what I was expecting based on what the Altas do.
@ElectricCycleRider Test request:
Can you do some range testing on a flat and straight dirt or paved road please?
Typical riding in Arizona often includes getting to the place you want to ride. It makes the difference of whether a truck is required or not.
Thank you!
Yall should try the admitjet armor
Could you give some detail on why you chose a braking level of 5 on the 10 scale? For example, Did you try other values for the engine braking? Was it a rider preference, system default, or recommendation for a specific reason? The reason I'm asking is because I was thinking it may affect the range for racing if it is regenerative braking.
Question for you guys that may have already done the testing. Do you get more range if you increase the engine braking setting? Every last press of the brake ( friction braking system) is energy lost permanently to heat. I'm just wondering if racers do indeed want more range.... If they dissipate enough braking power to justify learning to ride with the more aggressive engine braking setting, or if it would even help significantly or not. I'm thinking of it's over 5 or 10% then it's significantly better. But we could only find out if someone tests it! 😁😁😁
The idea might seem counterintuitive because generally we think faster riders are going to be harder on batteries no matter what, but the way I understand the physics (I'm sure someone will correct me with references where I'm wrong) , the more range we want, the more efficient we have to be over that range. Meaning we have to recoup every last joule of energy possible! If we can recoup some of that braking energy as stored chemical energy instead of lost to heat energy, that should contribute directly to the range of the bike. Of course limited solely by the efficiency and effectiveness of the onboard regenerative charging system. It would need to be able to cram loads of power into the battery.
On the racers, riders side, Max out engine braking setting and test range and run time again. Hopefully it will error code out before causing any permanent damage?
Thinking as a system designer...How much power do you need to design the regen charging system for?
As for designer you need to design the charging system to roughly match the breaking power needed by the back tire in each corner, pro rider, hot slicks on tarmac. You could start designing to lofty goals of the highest friction coefficients on hot days. If that design is lightweight enough and cheap enough then maybe that's a great design. But if it proves too heavy then the bike just simply cannot be that powerful. It needs to spend less energy so that it can afford the extra weight to charge efficiently enough to keep the range tests long enough for customers.
I guess you're essentially designing a high power and highly flexible and dynamic charging system where it's speed is dictated by the brake pedal.
And keep in mind if you have a digital only brake pedal that functions and performs every bit as good as today's disc systems, you can drop the UNSPRUNG weight of the rear caliper, disc, disc guard, and hardware !
Would even be Cool to take it to the next level and somehow recoup breaking energy from the front tire! That might be a little far-fetched But at the same time the front tire sees more breaking force on average so it would recoup even more energy than the rear I would think?
Not bad, but still not enough. The technology is just not there yet.
I recently did a test ride through a local moto shop which is a dealer for the Stark Varg. The sales guy and I took turns riding it in a desert single track loop I do on my KX450. I am 50yrs, 230lbs, and ride almost once a week. I used to desert race. The loop was mainly sandy with some dirt. No big hills. It took about 45 minutes to drain it down to near nothing. I mainly do fast desert trail riding and the battery life would not cut it for me. The loops I do with friends and family take about 2-4 hours and range from 30-50 miles. Bottom line, the battery is not sufficient for my type of riding. This is the first electric dirt bike I have ridden since all the others don't interest me for the type of riding and speed I like to do. On the positive side, the bike ripped! It was very fun to ride and aside from having a rear brake on my left hand lever it was much easier to get used to than I expected. The suspension was better than I expected. I rode it in the 50 & 60hp settings which were plenty fast and fun. When I hoped back on my KX450 I had to put it in its fast map so the KX wouldn't feel slow! Yes, I missed the sound of a roaring motor under me, but man was this bike (Varg) impressive. Good job Stark Varg. I am not ready to sell my gassers just yet, but the progression is starting to get pretty tempting! If your're a rich kid and want to get into riding dirt bikes, this would short cut you to keeping up with your buddies. I think the learning curve is less than on gassers.
It is likely your weight is a contributing factor. I am 6ft 5 and weigh 260 lbs and would be surprised if any electric bike gave me an hour of range. That is the big difference with ICE as they less impacted by such factors. An e-bike is not in my future plans. Need to be an MX jockey.
Very likely rider weight and terrain both were big factors. That's why I ride a 450! 😂
Sand drains the power out of the bike more than any other terrain.
Yep, that's why sticking with a gasser is my plan until battery life is better. The Stark was pretty fun though!
Great job on the video! Thanks for making it. I look forward to seeing these same tests on the Ultra-Bee.
yes PLEASE! Very few of us have 14k to spend
He already did a range test for the ultra bee
Riding hard on stock ultra bee battery/controller with 18/21 wheels and Dunlop trials tires, battery at low power mode/12% in 20 miles, average 13 mph, sport mode.
Great video Tucker, thanks so much for taking the time to test and post the vids for us! Range is pretty much exactly what I was expecting based on what the Altas do.
I was considering a stark, but I will probably hold off. I have a 22' KTM freeride and have two batteries. It gets less range than the stark, but it's so easy to swap out quickly to a fresh battery. I think hot swappable batteries are the way to go until we can get energy density of the batteries to get 80 miles on one charge.
that's an issue right now. the varg battery looks like swapping out an entire motor on combustible bikes. I'm looking at this as a MX bike, and there's simply no way to effectively charge this thing and still race 2 classes (4 motos) per day under all track conditions. would I still buy it and shrink my race day down to one class? yes. or maybe go back to the 2 bikes that I used to do with 2-strokes (when two 2-strokes cost as much as one 4-stroke today).
I considered the Freeride as well, just one thing held me off. Did you treat your ECU against coolant leakage? Seems to be a frequent problem with these. I just wondered: why is nobody waterproofing the ECU with clear coat? Simple and effective, avoids a 3k$ damage
100% agree on the battery. They need to be swappable, and I'm still on the boat of it needs a clutch for enduro riding. I really want one of these, but the Chinese Admit Jet Armor has my favor still because it has the features I need.
@@thebevinator5688 yea that part does kinda suck. Fortunately if you maintain it well to keep it from going bad it should be able to last a pretty long time. How long you’d need to own it to equal the cost of gas is dependent on the rider I guess.
You basically need a part time mechanic for race bikes these days. All that time and money saved going electric is a huge plus. No more staying up adjusting valves the night before a race, that's worth the money to me even if it's more expensive which I'm not sure it is, it's just paying less frequently, but in bigger chunks.
Thank you so much for doing this and sharing. This is super helpful for all of us hopefuls, that are still waiting.
Great test 🙂! I would be interested to see the charging at the track with doing the typical 20-25 mins then coming in for a break. Seeing how quickly the battery goes from what it has been drained to back to 100 percent.
Obviously depending with charging at the track being available.
Interesting results. We’ve all been waiting for this.
Awesome video!
Thanks so much, those results are pretty good! Can you tell me how much power the bike had with 10%. Would it climb a moderate hill to get back to camp? I'm wondering if we can use that last 10% to get back to truck at slow speed, maybe a couple miles?
great video so what range are you getting on your ultra bee and how does it compare to your modded ultra bee ?
That was the first time I've seen charge times mentioned thank you.
I love this bike! I would happily ride one. My main issue is not the battery life or by any means the performance... Its breaking it. I put 200 hrs on my ktm last year practicing for enduro and hard enduro races... I manage to break everything... that awesome phone display would be a major problem, those slick plastics i can only imagine how quickly they would be just zipties. I know its not meant to be a hard enduro bike. I do hope one day i get to try some dry river beds and some rocky hill climbs on one though.
Great video! Where are these single track trails in Colorado?
Great video regardless!
excellent info btw fella
I want to know if the bike can do a 30 minute plus 2 lap professional outdoor motocross race, and also a 20 minute + 1 lap supercross race. Very nice range test for woods riding and track days though! Nice vid.
Between the stage 3 Ultra Bee and this, which has the best range? Which do you like more?
Great video
First of all thanks for providing this valuable insight as I have been very interested in one of these but unfortunately the range is just unacceptable for that kind of money. Maybe some next gen solid state batteries will be the ticket in the future, sadly I don't the future is here yet.......
The range is better than i was expecting for Mx track. Good informative video.
I guess it's probably not enough range for a hare scramble, but it seems sufficient for most trail riding. On trail ride days my hour meter usually shows 2 hours or less of engine running time, even though we might be in the woods all day.
Awesome video Tucker! Can't wait to get mine. I noticed you dialed back the HP. Looks like 80hp isn't worth the spend? Would you agree?
The alpha version would be cool to have if you plan on running it with supermoto tires.
Other than that it seems to be a waste xD
Nice! I'm looking for an electric trail bike that I can use to explore the forests near where I live without disturbing the wildlife (I'm a photographer) too much... that way I can find places to set up trail cams and possibly hides for photographing the wildlife. Electric is ideal for the lack of noise... still working out what is going to get me the best range. I'll be mostly cruising, not doing jumps or going flat out all that much.
there's a long way to go before people like me can consider this battery hen, i rode 10 hours in welsh mountain yesterday on my exc 500 - 88 miles before fuel which took me about 55 seconds to recharge
Upsetting, normally ride well over 40 miles at your trail pace in places you don’t want range anxiety. I can only imagine how much worse it will get in the open deserts with long hill climbs. Looks like it’s a kid chaser machine or a track bike. I will continue the petrol machine.
Wow this is not the range i was thinking! Thanks for this. So my riding style and trails i should be looking for 2:00hr-2:30hr trail riding. Riding with my friends who can fill up at gas stations wont like only riding for 2 hours 🙁
The charger can only supply a max of 3300 watts to the bike, and the charger has a limitation of a maximum 10A supplied to the bike as well. So long as you are able to supply about 3600watts to the charger, any more shouldnt matter. Regardless of charge amp setting, as pack voltage increases during charging, the current supplied to the bike is decreased so that 3300watts is not exceeded. For example, the charger can only supply 10A if the pack voltage is less than 330 volts. Fully charged at 420v. Only a theoretical max of 7.85A can be supplied.
haskell to the rescue! have you been able to run 2 classes on the bike in one day on the Varg? or is that asking too much?
Have you had any ideas since mentioning Elcon 6.6 charger? I am sure there are ways around the Stark limiters? Would be super cool/ interesting. Modern batteries handle more- as you said the 3.3 was used on Alta bikes.
.. These bikes have advantages in Altitude and Sound ..
my XC-W at high altitude would get a jet change from stock ..
and the Sound .. while I love it .. not everyone loves a 2 stroke on the pipe while they are out hiking
i want to try this bike... as a secondary bike. going off hours it just won't work for me on some days. i was thinking i could use a gen set to charge at the track until you said 220v 30 amp taking 2 hours. thats a lot of juice and more than my 2000w genny can do. i love the idea of having a quiet trail bike that i can ride during fire bans and OHV restrictions but i can't take it on a long ride. my 300xcw if i don't do wheelies will go for many hours.
The range seems what I expected. The problem, I think the charging is being limited- maybe for safety/new product, modern lithium batteries can easily handle more. Bryan - first bike - mentioned the ELCON 6.6kW HK-J CAN UHF Charger awhile back? For those of us on practice days- faster charging needed- we don’t want to wait 2 hours for motos.
They claim "up to 6hr riding time"
unless you are sponsored by them, PLEASE call them out on this b.s. in a new video. Try your hardest to put put around and get 6 hrs out of a charge. It would make a great video.
I mean yeah just do the math…assume possibility of 55 mi range and divide by 6hrs…yeah what a thrilling experience that would be!
My typical day of woods riding is roughly 25-30miles and around 6k of climbing and descending. It sounds like this would suffice. But it leaves no wiggle room, and its that other 10% of rides that are much bigger days where this just wouldnt cut it unfortunately. So close but I think we're one big jump in battery technology away from these being truly viable options. At least for the average die-hard rider that can only justify having one bike.
Stark did say these are hot swappable? And that also means you can benefit from future battery tech and upgrades. So not all is lost, and I still ultimately want one.
Battery is not hot swappable (hot swappable means changing a battery on a electic dirtbike or device while it's still powered on, hence the "hot" term, meaning "live" or "powered on"). But yes, you can swap the battery on a Varg. It is a rather slow process compared to a swap on a bike with a removable battery like a KTM Freeride or Surron LBX, but it's doable. There is a video from Stark showing the technique for swapping the battery.
10% better range than the Alta? That's disappointing to say the least. I know they increased battery size recently and made the bike heavier. Probably that's the 10%.
I agree and am disappointed too. However, ripping it this hard on the track, i saw the Alta give up after 24min, whereas the Stark did 50min
Yes, because of the peak power is much more than the Alta.
If you have a bike that peaks at 12 kW and then you have a bike that peaks double of that, 24 kW it would need a battery twice the size to equal the same exact range.
Awesome video. What I was expecting. Even if 33mile was enough, imagine how meticulously you would have to plan your trail ride to make the most of the battery life so that you still get safely back to the cars. I guess you could ride super slow after a certain percentage, but it would be a little stressful and ruin the ride for your friends.
Really that's is about what I can safely get on my YZ250X with stock tank on the trails. And I believe it could make a H/S here in florida that is 2hrs long but in the old guy classes we never do full 2hrs.
Can you give us an idea of what a higher engine braking setting will do for range? What happens when you set a mode with engine braking at 100% (if that's possible) and flick to that mode on all steep downhills? Engine braking= regen so that should surely significantly increase battery range.
In most electric vehicles the Regen yields about 5-10% range. The bigger your hills get the more energy you use to climb them so it kinda cancels out unless you are in the rare circumstance of a one way trip down hill.
How does the engine braking affect the bike in the air? Does it have a hard deceleration when you let off the throttle like an electric car does?
Thanks for sharing, what type of outlet do you use. I have an RV outlet and want to know if I can get an adapter for the varg plug.
It charges on any 110V to 230V plug i believe
Thats pretty good honestly, when I go riding on the track its only for 1hr- 1 1/2 hrs
A nice, real-world test would be to do several motocross races and see if the batter holds up for at least 2 - 4 motos, with and without charging in-between motos (... probably have to put on a charger). Otherwise, this is very useful info, thanks!
Did you not watch the video??
@@eastwood111 Actual races, in addition to practicing laps on a MX track. However, I liked the video.
Would prolonged times in the cold zap the battery quickly? My thought in getting one would have fully charged when leaving home and in the back of the truck. Would the wind chill from the drive to the track drain a noticeable amount of battery? I’ve been using a polar watch to track my motos and I’m right around that hour mark and 17/18 mile point. I wouldn’t want to charge at the track.
riding the bike in cold temps will reduce its range but it wont lose much battery at all by just being in the cold
Have you looked at the Admitjet Armor yet? I'm still trying to find a range test video for it. I feel like gearing and smaller motors are the answer to range problems on electric motorbikes.
Unless the electric drive system is terribly unmatched to the use, gearing doesn't really help much. So like don't gear the bike for 100mph then climb hills at 15mph. Typically the weight and drag of the gear reductions cancel your gains. So instead of a 10lb transmission just put that 10lbs into battery or motor and you'd be better off. Electric motors have amazing efficiency across a very wide RPM range so you don't need multiple gears to keep them in their "power band" or "efficiency band" like gas motors.
@@dansacco1964 my zero fx 7.5 gets 90 miles range if I drive
@@just_one_opinionthats a very useful amount of range. They say the wind resistance becomes a huge factor above 30-35mph. Looks like your experience backs that up.
Is the single track in Colorado? That’s awesome single track
This bike is a great fit for me. Vet rider who rides technical trails for less than 2 hours and mellow MX. If I throw it on a generator between ride sessions, it will be more than 50% charged for my next trail or MX moto.
get a generator? you mean solar panels or a wind turbine ....HAHAAHAHAHAAHAH....cheers.
The range would work just fine for me. My Ford Lightning could even charge it on the trail.
But!
Serviceability is king on a dirt bike that gets roughed around so bad. There are 20 y/o used YZ250 parts lying around everywhere I can still use on my 2015. I'm afraid of the repair parts prices, and afraid that Stark will just go out of business -- like Alta.
I get the same range out of the KTM FreeRide EXC: 2 - 2.5 hrs of runtime or around 31-33 miles.
is it really Thunder Valley without the 12"-20" ruts all around the track?
Great vidieo. Looking forward to it maybe someday. But until they can at least triple the battery life ride times. It wouldn't be for me.
could you improve the range by ridding with bigger sproket/smaller cog ? EV drain the batteries by going high RPM so increasing the final drive ratio would allow you to ride lower in the RPM range which should help with range.
So, if a pro race lasts 40 minutes, then you would have to recharge before your next race. Will there be enough time between motos?
I like where your head's at on this. I want that kind of range and recharge too. just gonna toss up the caveat that 30+2 is pretty much ONLY AMA Pro nationals. local pro races are shorter. there's no chance this bike gets into a Pro national due to ama homologation rules, and then there's the issue of "displacement class." so it's a moot point for the next 5+ years (imo). as an MX bike though, that ~40 mins 2x per day is the grail. the more immediate goal is keeping it charged enough for 4 motos per day for amateurs. For example, run the Open A/B class and the Collegeboy/25+/30+/etc. class on the same day. Those motos are shorter but there's less time between them to charge. /2cents
What’s the back wheel size ? 18 or 19 inch ? Look like 18….. it is ? Thanks
been waiting for this one. disappointed with the range tho, even at 50% power
terrible
and only at 40HP setting what will it be at 60 or 80HP max power output MX portion at 40HP most 450s put out 55-60HP so why not tested at that range? and we need full race day results not practice day rides
The range is better than i was expecting for Mx track.
I don't think you really understand how it works. Just because power was that 50% doesn't really have a lot to do with it. And 40 hp mode you could be using 40 hp the whole time. You could switch it in the 80 hp mode and still only use 40 hp. Most people will never touch 60 or 80 hp on the trail. So giving yourself the extra power will likely just make you make mistakes and use a battery unnecessarily.
You can do the exact same thing in a dirtbike. Constantly on the throttle crack, in the throttle, even more than is necessary and going through fuel.
Like it or don't like it I don't care. But the premise of your statement is pretty false or at least what you were trying to imply.
@fishtailfuture you are so wrong, you have to try the bike to understand. The less power you put, more time it takes to react when you accelerate. Personally i like the power at 46hp on mx track but the throttle response was too delayed, so went to 50hp where the throttle respond was good but a little to much reaction for my liking.
When I'll receive my bike i may ride it for a while at 48hp i think.
So your answer was for the more power, i understand why he dit it, until they ipdate the app and allow you to change the curve.
Do you have a video where you check the actual weight? My guess is with better tubes and hand guards , better tires the bike will weight close to 270 lbs
Wow! That range is terrible. Guess we're still years away from meeting the riders needs. I quite often ride 60-80 miles at a solid pace. And this is when the battery is brand new? What about 2nd or 3rd year? Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of an electric bike. Don't have to worry about air filter and oil changes constantly etc. But this Stark is nearly twice the $ as my CRF250RX and only gets me half the distance.
About what I expected. Thought you might get a little closer to 40 on your mountain rides. Dial back the engine brake and maybe it would?
Yes would be nice to know how 55-60hp tests . Loamy / heavy sand mx tracks . Surely be a 30min session and then battery be toast .
We discussed this at racing today image 100 plus gen sets at the track all buzzing away all day charging bikes between motos . The pits be such a noisy environment.
Tracks arent going supply power for all these bikes to charge .
I thought the same. I bet it willl be close on a sandy track.
Well for someone that can afford a $14,000 electric bike. I’m sure that they will bring a gas generator. I would think it’s foolish to expect the MX track to re-charge the batteries. It’s up to the user to bring the generator
@@eastwood111 You can charge 14 bikes at the same time off a standard 200A residential power supply. Most major tracks are on the grid and could setup some charging and charge people to use it.
Well Ive heard that the range should be like a tank for a comperable gas bike. How long is the range of most gas bikes on a track?
its the recharge fella....its easy to get a gallon of gas to the trail to get you home if you run out.....a generator and enough gas to run it for 2.40 hours...LOL
We're about 4 years away from seeing a solid-state battery this will be a game-changer for varg if implemented which they will. Solid-state battery charge time 15 to 10 minutes triple the range maybe even more. If you're not familiar with solid-state battery you should look into it it will be the holy grail and it's coming soon
Solid state batteires are mostly vapour ware, sorry to say.
Its mostly toyota making insane claims that can't be backed up with any actual lab testing.
4 years is very close, can you share any links to tests or companies that have started using this? typically if something is 4 years away it means there is an extremely expensive/sensitive prototype available today being tested. that would mean the next 4 years is focused on stabilizing, optimizing, production process and getting costs down.
Solid state is always 5 years away, there is an interesting 3D printed semi solid state on the horizon, that looks promising
Latest battery tech is more towards less kg, or $, per wh, and more durable/sustainable
So if this bike were 25% less costly, at the same spec, due to lower price batteries, it would be very interesting
It’s been 4-5 years away for a looooong time unfortunately
Traditionally battery technology progresses very slowly. Lots of promises over the past ten years, but the progress has not yet gone any faster than previous decades.
Thanks for the video. About the equivalent of a 1 gallon gas tank on a gas bike. Not enough for off-road racing.
Please make new range test 😊 new update improve range on Stark Varg Today 😎 i am really curious about the new range test 🙌
regen doesn't help as much as you think... you should have it off unless descending for max mileage. The loss verse what you loss not coasting as much it isn't worth on the flats. This is how it is on the LW1 but that is street riding of course.
As a guy who would regularly ride 175 sandy fire trail miles per day, this seems to fall very short of what I'd like. I'm not interested in going around in circles, and I can't risk finding a place to charge when 3 hours from my truck. Riding in a sandy place like Ocala National Forest will consume that battery like crazy, and I'll bet the 17 mile range is what I'd see.
Anyone do any slow super hard enduro on one of these? Looks like the battery would last forever in my trails where I go like 2 mph.
I'm kind of surprised at this. I don't get anywhere near these numbers on my Alta. On my off-road rides, including 6 miles of road riding, I average about 17 mi before my battery is totally dead. That's riding mostly in map two.
I get 30 miles consistently on my 2018 alta mxr on mtn single track riding mostly mode 2.
@@timgriffen5978 yeah I get half that
I think your charge time is a lithium issue and not your house. Lithium can charge super fast 10-85ish % but above that must slow down considerably. I’d redo the test and time charging from 20-80% on both modes and you’ll probably see a difference.
So, still a long way to go till Stark Varg is capable of doing a full race moto session and be able to fully recharge for the next session. On top of that, if it`s a muddy race or a low-traction track, battery might die middle of the race session. And on top of that, we still do not know how many full 0/10%-100% charges the battery can de, before dying. And on top of that, new battery is around 7k ? I love the electric motocross bike idea, but still there is a long way to walk. May be, in a few more years will be there, but not yet.
They absolutely have to supply a fast charger (7-11 kW) and you have to be able to use on the mx track. With that you can really use it for mx. For enduro it's a no go for 95% of the riders. If you are in that 5% and can use it only for training, it will be a perfect training bike.
Ah shoot i was hoping for longer run time. May have to wait for better battery tech to come out. This is not enough unless i ride with all other electrics.
That would get a lap in at a hard enduro… nice!
I think the best way to compare range is to ride a petrol bike and the electric bike and measure the battery life in terms of fuel used for the same ride on a petrol bike.
This would be a more realistic measure.
I get about 50 miles out of one tank of fuel on my old petrol bike. If the electric bike can do the same then it is great but I can't compare your miles to my miles because the only reference I have is fuel usage and how many miles will depend on riding style.
If you get 30 miles out of a tank of fuel in a petrol bike then I would consider the electric and the petrol about the same in terms of expected range.
Would be nice if you could tell the runtime on each test aswell. And added range in kilometers. I know I can google that, but still 🙂
I did a 5 mile turn track and from 98% @59hp it was at 57%
I wonder when the AMA & FIM will let them compete with the 4 strokes.
260 pounds is heavy at pro level, I think it's power is as good or better but the weight might be a handicap at pro level, someone with a stark needs to have top riders do lap time test vs. 450 and 250 on different courses
The range in normal enduro pace is disappointing. I usually ride faster trails and fire roads and I bet it will do a lot worse in that situations. The range in super slow mode is pretty good, it will be really usable for me, but seems really too slow from the video. I knew all the hype for this bike would end up here, it was expected. It's super cool, fast, well made, even not that expensive, and OK for mx when you can use a fast charger (7-11 kW, not what they supply) on the track. Unfortunately, is almost useless for the average enduro rider in enduro riding, unless you really can adjust to its limits. Maybe if you only use it for training. I think it will have its niche, but won't trigger any revolution, not even in its hunting territory, the mx track.
I agree. I do hard enduro and hare scrambles and the bike would be dead to me. 2.5 hours on race pace enduro...it'll never show. Hype for sure
I can’t see why someone won’t come up with a third party hot swappable battery solution. Maybe slightly less performance and range, but a little lighter and hot swappable - could also use the battery casing or the mounts mounts to alter flex characteristics, since it is a stressed member.
Personally I think someone like Doug Dubach could do some cool stuff with this.
I think the frame limits hot swappable batteries.
Though, changing batteries isnt a massive job.
A few bolts and a connector and you're done.
Stark have a video on their channel on how to do it
@@zaarkeru3391 yeah i reckon you could get it down significantly to probably 60 seconds or so using quick release sort of mechanisms and maybe a hinged seat if that’s where all the connectors are, or extending the connectors cables so the battery can be removed while still connected, a new one connected then moved up. I’m pretty sure their is quick release electrical connectors that can pass that sort of current.
Or you create an adapter plate setup i think it would be doable, would reduce a little capacity but as we’ve seen you can get quite a bit of time out of the bike with reduced power, could easily do a 3hr cross country race with one pit stops at 40hp
Battery is not hot swappable (hot swappable means changing a battery on a electic dirtbike or device while it's still powered on, hence the "hot" term, meaning "live" or "powered on"). But yes, you can swap the battery on a Varg. It is a rather slow process compared to a swap on a bike with a removable battery like a KTM Freeride or Surron LBX, but it's doable. There is a video from Stark showing the technique for swapping the battery.
Honestly, it was NOT what I was expecting. Yesterday, I got from 100% --> 45% 32km in 3h on trails with my Ultra Bee. It is somewhat comparable
40km done with 50% battery with 50 HP and 50% regen when I Can Do only do 35km max with 100% of battery mode 2 with my 2019 freeride
Ultra Bee only puts out 12.5 kw or 16.7 hp. Pretty far off the 40/50 hp, or even 25 hp settings used in the video.
@@downhillupside absolutely true, yes. But you have to put this power down to consume the energy. So on roughly equal elevation changes, it is the average speed that defines the range. So it must be given for comparison
How do you ride a track at an average speed of < 18 mph? That seems super slow.
Modded ultra bee on top! :)
well surprise surprise, the facelifted ALTA goes a little further than the smaller battery capacity OG ALTA ...
I wonder if Varg's range is comparable with stock 250 2stroke gas tank
My carb'd 250 would get less than 30 miles of moderate pace trail riding. My injected 300 gets 45.
6:17 thats amp, so 10A max draw. If your outlet is 30A, its not a limitation
Thank you!! My delivery got dumped to January 15 from October. Boooo
I'm not even surprised tbh, nobody was talking about it due to embargo i assume, so I was expecting this part wasn't yet what they wanted.
This disappointing range plus the fact the battery is not amovible, I pass.
I'll buy an ultra bee and mod it.
So I was able to demo one in the desert and only got 17 miles and got to push the last half mile.
Basically…. You need to buy two Stark Vargs and a gas generator. Take that setup to the track. Ride all day. I’m in.
Limiting the charger to 10A with a battery that can't be swapped is a huge mistake. It should work like a Tesla supercharger, extremely fast charge rate while the battery is low and then taper off to prevent cooking it. A peak of 3300W is far too low for a guy running multiple motos. Correct it for battery size and that would be like charging at 40kw peak in a Tesla...when we actually get 250kw. They could have 5x'd the charge rate and maxed out a 50A socket to get the thing to near 50% screaming fast before slowly tapering off to prevent cooking it, like we do with cars. Even if they based it off a 30A 220V socket, there's so much room for improvement in the charging curve. Maybe they can't cool it well enough?
Fast charging like that will degrade the batteries way faster...
@@polska905 It actually doesn't make much difference as long as the thermal management is correct, which is a real challenge. This has been studied quite a bit because it's a critical aspect of EVs. After 500 cycles the difference in degradation was only 1% IF the batteries were kept cool. If they get hot, forget it, they're junk in no time. Slow charging would have been ok if they had a reasonable battery cost and a swappable battery.
@@OtisFlint it actually does make a huge difference, this has been studied for over 20 years now, sure some batteries are designed to take a charge faster than others, but that extra bit of heat will degrade em faster.
I did tell you the "6 hrs trailriding" claim was bs.... Along with the "110 kg". claim.
Sorry if I missed this info somewhere in the video but what was the average OAT? We see a 33% drop in battery life when OAT is above 100F in lithium powered drones
its liquid cooled
It’s tough because those are actually very solid increases from the alter and it’s a very impressive bike for what it is. It looks like a lot of fun on the trails but those are not yet motorbike range numbers. I think an electric motorbike for the right price would make an excellent daily, It’s just battery energy density at this point and with the amount of government funding for EVs my hope is that battery technology will progress
Great info and video, but all seems like a moot point, as not only is the charge availability limited, If I'm correct it takes a 220V outlet to recharge anywhere near the 2 hour mark. Which isn't viable at any track. The bike itself is just not readily available either, the date I seen was like the end of 2025 to get one. It's kinda like the tesla, they are probably great for that "CERTAIN" person who has lots of wealth, no need for long trips, doesn't care to sit for 1 to 2 hours every time they travel more than 100 miles. My first thought was this is a big revolution, but I'm not so sure now after more thought.
Just bring a generator?
Or consider the cost of fuel for a few years and add all that togheter and buy a 2nd battery
@@zaarkeru3391 The batteries don't appear to be easy to swap on the stark.
@@goneridingparts
Just a few bolts, stark have a guide on their channel
@@zaarkeru3391it absolutely wouldn't add up to the cost of a new battery... What a bonkers way of thinking... Lol
@@zaarkeru3391just a few bolts and you can have a 2 stroke rebuilt
The charge times are a problem for me, you get an hour of ride time and 2.5 hours of charge time, not good enough for me, so I will not buy one until they can get that charge time down to about 30 minutes for every hour of ride time. And nobody ever says how much it would cost to replace the battery when it is not under warranty, what if you have it for 3 years and the battery goes bad, you have to pay for a new one, and I heard they are $6,000.
How come nobody ever talks about that. What is the battery life, 2 years, 5 years, does anyone know, it seems to be a secret.
Looks like battery tech still has a long way to go, but an amazing bike nonetheless.
It’s had a LONG way to go since I was a kid in the 80’s. It hasn’t and likely isn’t going to advance much.
@@wasatchadventures8947😂😂😂
Might as well have a Yamaha tt250 if you have to ride around at 25HP.
no problem doing a hair scramble ?? 3 x around a @15-20 mile track
Won’t make it at race pace
not even close
You would need 3 batteries
Hard pace on ultra bee in the woods, (stock controller and battery) on and off the gas, I only get 20 miles before low power mode @12%…
Wow… 17 miles at race pace and your day is done and don’t even think about getting into the Main…one would say “just swap out to a new battery”…. Um.. can’t be done trackside and.. a spare battery is what ?…… $7000 !!!!!!
I might buy one if you came with 2 batteries.
Dude ! Coasting will give you more efficiency, trust me, Zero engine brake/regen try that
So why not a test on the 80hp tune
Cause you cant use it on a mx track or in the woods xD
Wasted power
@@zaarkeru3391 yes you can. Plenty of others demonstrate it on youtube
@@zaarkeru3391you absolutely can use it, if you couldn't then why would they advertise it at 80hp? Isn't that one of the selling points?
Exactly! Pointless review without testing full power for possible length of motos
@@polska905
Because thats the power available...
And no, even top pros have a hard time using modern 450s to their fullest...
And they have ~20 less bhp.
Have you ever ridden MX or enduro?...
The distance ain't horrid for racing I'd expect to get like 50 miles doing hard trail riding on stock tank then 1 liter bottle...and swap the tank for 2 gallon can get maybe 90 ,100 miles. Hit up the gas station real quick do another 90 miles and then ride all night. Typically ride 10 plus hours fuel and keep going. Don't have time to wait to charge. So these ebikes are neat toys but not legit.
keep in mind. 40hp is overkill for everything in this video. my upgraded ultra bee is 22kws which is 29hp and i dont even need that much. i ride on 10kws for the most part which is half the hp. hes also running %50 engine brake which kills your momentum and makes you have to throttle more which means more battery wasted. i ride jumps. single track. wheelie. all of it so i have a good sense on what range i get an a 72v 73ah gets me around 4 hours of ride time or 60 to 80miles of range. thats not even the 80v either. theres ultra bees that can go further. either way you deffintly dont need 40hp let alone 25hp. i bet 10 to 15hp can handle single track just fine and maybe 20 to 30hp for jumps. that would be more realistic. i consider 40hp and above your hitting big triples at your main supercross track.
40 hp is not overkill for slower technical enduro sections for a bike in this weight class. Hard enduro bikes like the Husky te 300 has 45 hp (and similar weight with full tank). You need that power in order to have the low end torque and momentum in order to do techniques like double blip or zap, or keeping the front wheel light when going over bigger stones with speed. The Starg Varg was compared to a gas bike in range/power. which obviously is far from that. Especially if compared to Enduro bikes. (I also don't see how the Starg Varg could get the same traction, without having a clutch )
This is hilarious. Not sure how people believed the marketing hype when it has the same technology as the Alta, yet the promised numbers were worlds better. A fool and their money…😂