Is the Stark Varg Good for Trail Riding?
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2024
- Today we brought our friend Justin out to come ride a selection of Stark Varg's and Surron Ultra Bee's!
Justin is an advanced mountain bike rider who enjoys single track enduro riding on his gas powered Dirtbike. He has been a Stark Varg preorder holder since nearly day 1 and has been questioning whether or not to follow through with the order.
We figured this is the perfect opportunity to present him with a couple options and help him to decide what he's looking for in an Electric Off-road Machine.
The market is expanding at a vast rate with so many options to choose from. We have found that although we love the Stark Varg as a motocross track bike it definitely has its faults in an off-road riding scenario ultimately because it is hard to want to beat up a Ferrari over nasty terrain. Whereas the ultra bee is smaller more agile bike it thrives in the off-road environment. However it's like taking a Mazda Miata to a race car track when you pull up to a motocross track.
Stick to the end to hear Justins opinion! Hopefully this helps anyone deciding which electric bike they would like.
Please like comment and subscribe, it goes a long way for us and we highly appreciate your feedback!
0:00 - Intro
1:25 - 60hp Stark Varg
1:45 - 80hp Stark Varg
2:00 - TKO Setup Ultra Bee
2:23 - Upgraded Ultra Bee
3:13 - Cost of Each Bike
4:05 - Introducing our Guest rider
5:04 - Why order a Stark Varg?
5:56 - Stark Varg Power Settings
6:58 - First Ride on a Modified Ultra bee
9:10 - Steep Sloppy Decline
10:05 - First Ride on the TKO Ultra Bee
11:38 - First Ride on enduro Stark Varg
13:25 - Hill Climb Stark Varg
15:50 - Hill Climb Ultra bee
16:48 - Post Ride Discussion
17:00 - Ultra vs Stark Hill Climb
18:25 - Ultra vs Stark Trail Flow
18:57 - Bike ergonomics for a tall guy
19:21 - Bang for Buck?
19:42 - Best tool for the job?
20:16 - Riding Crew vs Electric
20:35 - How many Miles did we ride?
20:48 - Keep the gas bike?
21:16 - Adding an electric bike to the stable?
22:28 - Replace the gas bike?
23:15 - Should we beat up a Stark Varg in hard enduro?
24:11 - Final Remarks - Sport
Dude says "its only the 60hp version"! What a glorious time we live in!!
But then theres the shame of knowing you are only EVER going to use 15hp of that 60
True! What a nice time!
stark varg looks like it's just another big enduro bike. They are great in the faster trails but in the tighter ones it becomes an handicap.I have to say that build quality seems to be out of this world! Kudos to them for making such a good looking bike.
this video is exactly what I wanted, thanks
It's like you are creating custom content just for me. Great job! This was just the type of comparison I was looking for.
Great test!
A lot of really good information/feedback comparing these different bikes.
Im running a mid/soft starcross on my ultra bee. 110/90/18 and its awesome.
You just saved me tons of money, thank you. You were mostly riding smooth flowy trails. I ride a lot of slow technical mountain trails. What I saw was that the second you got on steep and loose, and especially once you stopped, you had a tough time getting going. And this has been my number one worry all along……technical riding requires a clutch to modulate power to the ground.
100
AGREED!
Did you see the part where he talks about the UltraB basically making a cake walk out of all of those technical sections even more than the 300 two strokes? The traction control on the ultra b is superior to clutch modulating I find
For the Varg, at least until they release their TC update, you need to recalibrate your right hand to gently accelerate. You don't need a clutch as the electric motor has more than enough torque to get you going without slipping the wheel, just if you get a handful like you are used to on a gas bike, the torque will overpower the wheel and just spin in place. The ONLY reason a clutch exists on a gas bike is because the engine cannot idle at 0 RPM like an electric motor can, so as not to stall the engine we got used to engage the clutch partially and pulse the power via the right hand to effectively do manual "traction control", but if you are simply more granular with your right hand on the acceleration you can get the same effect on an electric bike. Same goes for when you dump the clutch to bunny hop over an obstacle, you can simply pulse the acceleration while simultaneously pushing your weight on the back tire and you will get the same effect as dumping the clutch. After you calibrate yourself to how an electric bike works, you won't miss the arm pump that comes with actuating a clutch constantly.
For reference: czcams.com/video/UY-u691iDMA/video.html
I liked the idea of this video. It would be interesting to get pro gas bike riders or even just weekend warriors and let them try out the same bikes and see what all of their thoughts are. Would make a cool series. I think it would be cool to see rich larsen and hear his opinion on these. I know he rides a e trials bike and likes having a clutch but it would be interesting to see what he says about riding these.
Very interesting your ultra bee version...
So happy with my ultra bee!!! X9000 upgraded wheels and tires, bars with bar risers. Great bike!!!
Super rad and great upgrades!
Sweet. May I ask how much rise you were able to get with the stock cables?
@@jimbojames6327 i did the 2.5” pro taper bars and the 1.5” risers
@@jimbojames6327 the bars are 2-3” and the risers are 1.5” cables are still great :)
Awesome video! I haven’t had the chance to ride a varg but I absolutely love my ultra bee. It’s been an incredible bike and super easy to ride. I ride 30 mile loops with my buddies on gas bikes and never worry about my range. If you’re starting out and learning the ultra bee is incredible.
Also where can I get that front fork setup? I’m going to pull the trigger on front and rear suspension soon. I was going to get a bigger battery but tbh I haven’t needed it and the power is more than enough at 16kw.
Hey Josh! If you want one give us a ring, we have a few of them available :) They are here on our website: chargedcycleworks.com/products/kke-front-suspension-fork-for-surron-ultra-bee
Dying for this exact comparison...
Really cool seeing this comparison! I know it's a pain but it would be really awesome to see these kinds of comparisons with a little more equal setups - similar tires, tubeless etc.
Also would be awesome to see a comparison of the ultra bee and the varg on an MX track. Thanks!
Definitely takes resources and planning to make it happen but we will definitely make a push for more consistency in future content planning!
@@ChargedCycleWorks Cool, yea just a hopefully constructive suggestion. Any comparison even with differences is better than nothing for sure so still really appreciate the video!
Ktm 300xcw, Ultrabee stock except 18/21 and new bars, + stark because your a baller.
you just described my garage
🔥 video as normal
Great video! I have a question about the rim choices on the Ultra Bees. You have Warp9 rims on the 10k bike, are these better that the KKE 21/18 rims that seems to be everywhere? Are they lighter, stronger, more/less expensive?
The warp 9 ones are higher quality than KKE, they also retain traction control capabilities, are stronger, less maintenance and have a better finish. They are relatively the same weight but are more expensive
Just test rode a stock Ultra on the road and was a little underwhelmed by the power and suspension. After that great initial hit it seems to run out of hp pretty fast. From what I have seen the power issue if fixable but that light weight suspension will be harder to bring up to speed. Likely I will still buy one and start the upgrading process because I need that lighter weight bike after breaking my foot when my Sherco fell on me not to mention getting old. Varg looks like too much in tight terrain for an old guy and don't think I can wait for the Talalaria Dragon. Great comparison review thanks.
The in between Varg and Ultra Bee is a modded Ultra Bee. You can put on an aftermarket controller and get 40% more power plus a lot of adjustability. If you need more range, there's bigger batteries available which unlocks even more power. Electricisbetter youtuber won a couple hare scrambles on his with just 18/21 and a bigger battery.
Final conclusion, Stark needs to come out with an Enduro version with a clutch, softer suspension, etc. Sounds like they're working on it. He nailed it saying a 14k bike with shortish range doesn't make sense for a second bike for most people. I have an EM trial with a clutch and I can get two long days of riding out of a charge. Just makes sense on the trials platform. Won't go back to a gas trial bike. But keeping my 300 for now, but excited for the future.
Another great competitor for hard enduro is the EM escape R especially the new XR version. I am surprised to not see it here more often. I rode both the ultra and the escape and in technical terrain the escape is much better and in is stock form! Yes it's more expensive but if you count upgrades there are pretty much the same price.
EM makes a very refined bike. I have the epure race and it's awesome. The Escape basically being a trial crossover bike would definitely be the best electric technical bike available, especially with the clutch, but the 39mm trials suspension, even stiffened up, falls apart at speed. Cool as hell bike, though. Would be cool to see EM come out with a 300ish enduro bike with at least 43mm forks, etc.
@@sam-ww1wk I agree but then I think it would make the bike much heavier and with a 197lbs do you need 43mm suspension? I dont think so honestly a set of inverted 39mm that is set up for faster riding would be great.
Take look at their new Escapre XR. It close to what you are proposing.
Canadian Talaria website has the Dragon MX listed late 2024 arrival. Seems to bridge the gap between the Varg and Ultra nicely with hardly a need for upgrades.
Have you looked into the recent Dust Moto?
I was excited for the Dragon, not to say I am not still interested, but timing is unfortunate for a release, it's heavier than UB at ~220lbs.. so comes down to price. I like it has 21/18 (or 19?) stock and 88v.
I'd get the varg, no questions asked
Ultra bee ❤ best of all worlds
The storm Bee is a great trail bike
Very informative, well done!! Now just need to make a call over to Fastway to whip up some drop pegs for us tall monkeys.
Just got an email back from Fastway and they are currently fine tuning a drop peg solution for the UB. Apparently there's inconsistencies in the UB causing fitment issues but they're working on it.
Great to know, thank you! Warp 9 is also in the middle of making a solution as well. Lots of options hopefully here in the near future@@joshc3926
Nice editing and very useful information. Thank you! I had fun watching all the way to the end ☺️
I've seen that cheetah print O'Neal jersey several times and thought "who the hell would buy this thing" But here's the guy! Hahaha
Some of us would kill for a set of 1980's Ricky Johnson Zebra Print Fox gear!
😅Great review! 6'3" and literaly in the same boat. How much higher can you make the bars on the UB? Maybe bar risers plus bars? Are we limited by the control cables/wires? I left 4 strokes years ago due to weight, real or percieved; light is right! Or am I wrong....
Light is definitely a huge advantage, bar risers plus bars is a doable thing and you should be able to get away with the cable length with that setup. It’ll be a little bit tight but there should be enough play to not harm anything
I know I love 2-strokes and lightweight. I also love electric, the simplicity, maintenance, lack of noise etc. I went upgraded sur-ron light bee -> varg and the quality, and ergonomics are so much better. Maybe if I spent like $16k on an ultra bee you could get something close but.. I don't have much time these days to customize a bike that much, plus the Varg is probably always going to be better on MX which I'm trying to do more of... still Ultra is tempting for sure.
@@ChargedCycleWorks TP bars plus 1" risers a possibility? If so that would be sweet for standing!
@@BarrettMeeker867I hear you. My set up 300xcw is a skyscraper next to my buddies' bikes. Bar risers, tall seat, dropped pegs etc. But we're talking 60 pound differential; I couldn't lift the Varg off the stand at our local dealer. But I am a 60 year old who has riden for 50. I certainly don't need Varg power, and it seems so MX oriented. I just want to explore my secret desert tech trails and hill climbs. But apparently I would have to be on an Ultra Bee with frikken ape hangers... I am sure in a few years this will all change when Stark makes a less powerful, yet lighter weight trail weapon...
The Varg is MX track bike at heart, and absolutely kills it out there. The Ultra is an incredible fun and agile trail bike. Definitely best to choose the bike that meets your riding style. Also many many new bikes coming to the market this year!@@BarrettMeeker867
Ive been wanting a varg for trails and dunes but the range is my biggest and only concern
It will be one of the most fun bikes you can ride at the dunes, but you can’t swap the battery so that is definitely a downfall
Good vid, I bailed on my Varg order due to the weight. Already owned a DRZ & want no part of a 260lb+ off road bike.
Seriously guys - try that homely little KKE damper ( swap out the fish oil to 7wt 1st though ), you wont believe the difference it makes on the UB, 15% more stable with no penalty in the tight stuff, in fact it's even better in slow hacky terrain as it holds a line & gets deflected far less.
Your secret weapon for 2024 TKO on such a short wheelbase bike, a no-brainer if ever there was one.
TEACH ME. I Just got an Ultra a couple months back. Did the 18/21 and EBMX controller. How do I swap out the oil?
@@benthomas2590 just take out the screws - it's a simple damper, Ive since replaced with 5wt oil , not 7. Just make sure you fill all the way to overflowing when you put to top back on to keep air out of the system.
very detailed, very fucking nice Guide(?). Liked and replied.
FYI I also came from a 250 2-stroke and have a Varg. I find 35-45 hpr with 30% - 35% regn feels about equivalent and is plenty of power for most riding.
I have a lightbee as well and if you have similar tires on them the Varg has way way more traction with that much fatter tire. Try gummies & mooses on the varg and I bet it will have more traction than the ultra.
We completely agree!
Any reason you didn’t bring the ebmx powered ultra? To have a comparable power to weight
We were trying to be responsible on cost and not exceed the cost of the Stark Varg. However I think based on the comments here we may have to do a round 2 with a Varg setup with moose and gummies and a power upgraded Ultra Bee...maybe both at the same price point? What do you think, is that something you would want to see?
@@ChargedCycleWorks I think if you could take and take a 14k varg then did a controller battery and tires maybe a few other comforts and make the ultra the same price I think it would be very interesting
@@phat56pat battery is a stressed member on the varg...what you going to upgrade?
How would the Artic Leopard 800/880 compare in this style of riding?
Watch our newest video to find out :)
Can you put the EXT ferro fork on the surron ultra bee because i haven found any youtube videos on it?
No, it’s a much smaller fork made for the surron light bee and will not fit the ultra
@@ChargedCycleWorks thank you for replying i was wondering about that
Do taller riders really need taller bars? I used to assume so. Now obviously people need to set their bike up for their personal comfort. But something I heard and then did some research on is, 6’6” tall Supercross pro Bennie Bloss for the most part, runs a fairly stock rider triangle and bar height, maybe a few millimeter here and there depending on the brand..
Something else I heard that made sense is, tall riders typically have longer arms.
I’m only 5‘10“ tall and started running a taller bar for a while and noticed that, it moved me up and back and I had less front wheel traction entering corners. It moved me up and away from my attack position or over the bar position. But like I said, everybody needs to set their bike up for their comfort level, just food for thought.
100% agree, it's very much rider preference. We've done a ton of research on this topic and we really need to do a video specifically about this. Some interesting things we've found in our research is that almost every OEM has gone to the KTM bend which is straighter than old-school bars and it was a trend that Villapoto and Stewart started. They all are pretty much the same bend now but vary in height. Honda is 1/2" taller KTM bend for example. We run the super tall Pastrana FMX on the small bikes to open the cockpit, but on larger bikes we tend to stay with our personal favorites. Brian is a Honda guy and 6' tall and runs the Honda bend on his Varg for a taller bend...he's also older and maybe doesn't like the full on bent over attack posture a younger rider might like, Brett who is young and short loves the KTM and Champ bends. We'll try to do an entire video on this, it's great information.
What do you think about the stark using it as a super Moto?
It would probably be amazing! We have a Supermoto series 30 minutes from our shop, I suppose we should give it a rip!
Varg with a clutch would get interesting. I can't imagine not having a clutch in a full hard enduro whiskey throttle situation
Whiskey throttle on the electrics is certainly one situation where we all agree a clutch would be beneficial. The Arctic Leopard EXE we recently reviewed has an e-Clutch that we will be talking about in future videos. Unfortunately in our first ride video it was programmed as a brake and waiting for a software update to make it an eClutch.
Very true. I patiently waited years for EM to come out with their trials with a proper clutch. I rode one with their previous e clutch and didn't work for my riding style. I can't imagine Stark isn't working on their clutch/enduro version already.
There's a setting on my Ultra Bee which kills the motor if I touch either brake. For Whiskey Throttle, it's been even better than a clutch since there's 2
let him try a storm bee
Looks like Stark Varg is not suitable for trails as soon as its gets a bit gnarly. Maybe if they put a clutch in it.
Put some gummies on that Varg and Hard Enduro it!
The stark was appealing when announced, but its way too heavy to be used as serious trail machine. Where you’re doing various hill climbs and trying to get over decent obstacles.
It’s way too heavy
And no clutch. Definitely an mx bike, and marketed as one. Be cool to see what they develop for an enduro bike.
The ultra B in stock form is merely a mid trail bike and a Chinese toy compared to a varg.
I agree, if your paying 14k you want the bike to do everything
The Stark is too heavy for trail, the Ultra Bee comes with shitty components, KTM XCW-300 is still the best trail bike.
Gas bikes have years and years of development and over here at Charged we still own and absolutely love our gas bikes. The electric world is just an amazing new chapter. Not created to replace the gas world but created to be a new form of fun off-road riding.
Guys are comparing Stark vs Ultra Bee lol 😂 at least compare with Arctic Leopard EXE880 wtf
That bike will be arriving soon. Justin’s debate was between the ultra bee and a varg. It wasn’t about comparing the bikes in specs it was about finding the best tool for the job.
@@ChargedCycleWorks hoping for good comparison between Stark Varg #1 MX electric moto vs Arctic Leopard EXE880 #1 Enduro electric moto! Can't wait for good quality review from you guys! 🫡
You can hear farts on hill climbs ?
One word to describe riding an electric bike...soulless.😢
you've missed the point of riding
ya, also no burns from the pipe on leg LOL
Enduro tires !!!!!!!please don't use the original tires without mouse for Enduro tracks !!!!
I have a ZERO FX and that is EXACTLY spot on....where is the CLUTCH!