Stark Varg review: will it suit enduro riders? ︱Cross Training Enduro
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- čas přidán 4. 04. 2024
- www.crosstrainingenduro.com Woohoo! It's our Stark Varg review. There are plenty of reviews from a motocross or racing perspective. We want to know if this electric dirt bike will suit the everyday dirt rider. As usual, our review will be more critical than most. Unlike some channels, we paid full price so it's a legit Stark Varg review. Will it make a good electric enduro bike? We always encourage viewers to be wary of glowing reviews that overlook problems and potential issues. A quick bit of background. Need hard enduro training? Work through our video lists. I was very sceptical of the Stark Varg at first. But recently our Canadian cousins tested the Stark Varg for several days and they were blown away. They knew I was sceptical but said I would be stunned with how good the Stark Varg is. I must admit they are right. This is a truly impressive dirt motorbike! And yes, I was blown away. But I still don't think it will suit some riders. More on that later. What did we like? If you are enduro riding get into our enduro training vids. The electric motor is truly amazing. A small amount of throttle is very gentle for trials-style moves. Then ridiculous amounts of power when you grab a handful. At first they claimed a 110kg weight but it was 118kg in the end. They claimed a battery life of six hours with easy trail riding. Theoretically this is possible but probably a walking pace on flat ground. Their marketing department went a bit overboard with statements like "It proves once and for all that electric power is superior". Hard enduro techniques are covered in our training vids. Even Stark Varg reviews have claimed this lol. The power delivery is almost infinitely variable but the five main pre-sets will be fine for most riders. I stayed in the softest setting most of the day and the Stark Varg still rocketed up the steep climbs without breaking a sweat.Our dirt riding tips are great for developing your hard enduro skills. But there must be some very clever electronics in the Stark Varg. Excellent. If you want extreme enduro training see our playlists of enduro skills to learn. Try our training vids for working on your extreme enduro techniques. Some riders say an electric dirt motorbike will have no soul. I suspect if they gun the motor in the higher power settings they may change their minds. Traction. We tested the KTM E-Ride on this property and the lack of traction control made it almost impossible to ride in slippery terrain or steep loose hill climbs. Into enduro and dirt bikes? Check out our dirt bike videos. Extreme enduro training vids are our focus. How did we set up this Stark Varg for enduro riding? When ordering, we specified enduro-style suspension settings dialed in for our weight and they hit the nail on the head. Ditto for the 18 inch rear wheel and side-stand. We opted for the left-hand rear brake which is absolutely fantastic once you get used to it. Then it's just programming the amount of power needed, the power curve, amount of traction control, and the virtual flywheel effect. Google around and you will see plenty of battery life tests. Most owners are reporting about two hours of enduro riding. Experienced motocross riders are achieving about one hour on the track. If these figures don't work for you, don't buy the Stark Varg. Range anxiety? Honestly this shouldn't be a problem. The remaining battery life is indicated very clearly on the speedo. And you can create your own 'reserve'. Even the stock 60 horsepower Stark Varg has way more power than most dirt riders can handle. This is on par with a 450 motocross motorbike. If you can ride one through the forest and feel you need more power, then order the 80 horsepower Stark Varg. A local gold class hard enduro rider owns a Stark and says he doesn't need a clutch. They are up to 90% lighter than rubber tubes. Every one else? Possibly a pro-level hard enduro rider could still use a clutch, but at this stage we think the average dirt rider simply won't need a clutch. But we are keen to report back after a lot more riding. Taddy Blascuziak is racing a Stark in endurocross and says he hasn't need a clutch as yet. We suspect this is purely to save weight and swapped to normal tubes until we hear good long-term reports about the plastic tubes. If you stop on a steep hill, the Stark Varg will roll backwards even with the regenerative braking set to maximum. If you have the left-hand rear brake this should not be a problem. You really notice the weight of the Stark Varg when lifting, so it's a shame the stand isn't a little lower. Side-stand. It's a bit shorter than average so the Stark Varg leans a lot on flat ground. To date, those are our only complaints. If we find more issues, we will put them in the pinned first comment. What about potential issues? Ridden a Stark Varg? Owned one? We are keen to hear your thoughts and opinions for our next Stark Varg review.
#crosstrainingenduro #endurotrail #starkvarg - Sport
INDEX & FURTHER NOTES!
1:16 The motor
1:49 Traction control
2:25 Handling
2:38 Is it too heavy?
3:08 Enduro setup?
4:00 Battery life
4:50 80HP a gimmick?
5:22 Clutch needed?
6:00 What we dislike
7:02 Potential issues
8:16 Will it suit you?
CORRECTION! We've been advised there are no adjustments for traction control or the virtual flywheel, despite early Stark promotions saying this would be available. The owner in this video asked his dealer who said it may become available in the Stark app later.
CRITICISMS FROM STARK OWNERS
As always we actively look for problems or issues raised by owners. One viewer has down three rides and loves the bike. But he gave us this list of issues:
Didn't like have to make full payment then wait four months to get it.
The power cable form the stand to the bike is way too short [owner in this vid agrees]
Phone pops out of the holder if you crash.
The front plastic inner tube popped second ride [our guy agrees they are too flimsy].
The suspension is so stiff they have clearly got the math wrong [dealer told our guy take 10kg off your weight when ordering!]
Max temperature for bike storage (according to the manual) would require air conditioning in the sub-tropics.
@Erwin-P really loves his Stark Varg but has these criticisms.
A experienced MX rider will not get 1hr at the track. He only gets about 40 minutes and is far from a pro. He says riders at the National level get about 20-25 minutes.
The sidestand just sucks. No way around it. Allready lost 2 sidestand brackets.
The tubes are too thin and burst doing jumps.
Broke the switch. Sand gets in between the button and the casing. so could not ''downshift'' and ended up in 80 hp in the CrossCountry race.
Where is a reverse? A E bike does not have 1 single good excuse not to have it.
The dashboard keeps disconnecting and not storing rides! Even worse not showing battery levels on a riding day.
DOES IT NEED A CLUTCH?
Some riders are concerned about whiskey throttle as they can't pull in the clutch. But if you opt for the left hand rear brake that should still work.
In the vid we mentioned a local gold class hard enduro rider who says he hasn't really needed the clutch to ride hard enduro. But in further comments he said he's had to do more throttle control instead of clutch feathering so his right hand gets fatigued faster.
BATTERY LIFE
Battery Test 100% to 0% in technical terrain: by Mayhemjach: 3.5 Hrs of ride time, 20 MPH average speed, 74.5 Miles of Range
COULD STARK GO BROKE?
Always an issue with a new brand but it's very unlikely. Royal Enfield has invested 50 million euros into Stark.
www.visordown.com/news/industry/royal-enfield-buys-chunk-electric-motorcycle-maker-stark-varg
Nice one Barry 👍
I can't wait for the Flux to land, the Stark is meh for me at the moment, without the ability to register it.
I think the clever virtual clutch/regen lever and full lighting system are winners for me.
@@Danger_mouse Yes I want a Supermoto of this Street Legal Then the 80HP will be nice
Too the suspension being stiff:
It's made as an MX bike and suspension is set likewise. In the jumps and sand it's as close to perfect as you might expect from any OEM tune.
Using it for enduro it's way too stiff, i found out during a Cross Country competition. However they use just 3 different fork and 2 shock springs, the rest is in the clickers. So if it's too stiff and you would have liked 10 kg lighter probably a flat screedriver will do. I have a spreadsheet of their settings wich i sadly can't upload in a comment.
Finally! A review from someone whose opinion I trust!
Thanks for the vote of confidence! Some viewers hate our critical approach but I think it balances out all the wildly optimistic 'reviews' of products and bikes floating around lol.
Hi! I have followed you guys for years, I am an old fart Canadian. I have a Stark Varg, a beta x trainer (with suspension mods) a kdx 220, and a ktm 525 exc. I have owned honda, KTM, husky, Yamaha, Suzuki, can am, and bmw through the years. I have no brand loyalty. The Stark, regardless of power train, is a beautifully balanced and well built bike. There are advantages and disadvantages to the powertrain. The ability to decide the bike you want to ride is a huge advantage. Changing the power and personality of the bike is super neat. The fact that I bought a gas generator to take with me should tell you all you need to know about the environmental argument for or against it. It is simply a different tool for what you want to do. I find myself riding differently, and doing things I would not try on a gas bike. Yet there are some things a gas bike does better. (range and ease of fueling are obvious). Yet people don’t give weight to where electric has clear advantages. For example, when I do a dumb hill climb and fail, I can sit and rest knowing that the bike is not spinning the rear wheel, not spilling fuel all over, and will not be a pain in the ass to restart when I pick it up. So I chill. I rest, and let my old man lungs relax. I use my Varg to grab the mail at the end of my 1 km driveway. I have never taken any other bike in the entire time I have lived here. The lack of warm up or starting makes me use the bike for a pile of little stuff I would not even have thought to use any other bike . This makes you bond with it. Yet…. it reminds me of a jet ski, in that the skill needed to ride it is no longer a barrier…it is easy to ride a jet ski, but very hard to ride one well. As an old guy, I kind of like the fear and limits that a clutch and untamed power presented to me. The respect for a machine that wanted to hurt you, and the satisfaction that came from learning to ride a bike at young age made me feel cool. The ease of initial riding of an electric bike could lull one into a situation that could be nasty and painful. That can be said for modern cars too…. All that being said, it is one cool bike..but, again there are some things to consider. If rides over 2 hours with no home base are what you like, look elsewhere. Range and the ability to charge anywhere are not there yet. I still love my beta and will keep it for when it is the better bike…but to tell you you honestly, if I had to pick, after 20 hours of riding on the stark it would be a tough call. It really depends on how and where you ride. For me the stark checks more boxes than it crosses off. Is it perfect? Not even close, but it is way better than I thought it would be, fun and different., and with the ease of use, and simple maintenance, it is worth the worth the money. In 20 hours I have not spent any money on oil, filters, or gas. I have done no oil changes. When I get home I don’t have to check the garage for gas cans (to find my kid has used it in his bike)! I just go. It has its own flaws and issues, and like all things nothing is black and white. It is super fun and makes me smile. It is different. So if you have not ridden it please try not to judge it. It still might not be for you. But you may be surprised. It is a well built and well executed bike that maximizes its electric drivetrain better than any thing has before it. It will only get better. It is nothing more than another option to have fun. We live in a great time with multiple choices, and new ideas. There is room for all. By the way….Sometimes I start the beta just to make the garage smell better.
That's a great summary for many owners from what I've been reading...
'Is it perfect? Not even close, but it is way better than I thought it would be, fun and different., and with the ease of use, and simple maintenance, it is worth the worth the money.'
Not using gas bikes for short trips is kinda cultural. I live in china now and nobody here warms engines. Yes, it is not good, but under very small load it is not so dangerous.
Great summary mate
@@inevespace
Some bikes don't run very well or are very difficult to even start until they are warm, especially in the winter. So I see a huge point for electric, the convince and minimal maintenance is very attractive.
@@mgk1397 when you have problems to start ICE, electric is also in trouble with cold battery. My electric scooter didn't have full power even at 0C. Of course, if you want to start carbuirated high performance engine in cold you rejet for the season. You won't have problems to start a modern injected ICE at -30C.
Only issue I have had ...bad on/off switch. Stark Tech support has been incredibly good. Stark shipped a new switch to me in 5 days ...Barcelona Spain to Florida. Zero buyers remorse! Finding about 40HP/ 80% Regen to be the sweet spot in getting the most out of the Battery...charges at 1% per minute on 240V.
Good to know!
Excellent, straightforward review thank you! There are only a few content providers left that seem trustworthy in these "interesting times". Please never stop.
We've been begging him to stop for years...
😂
2 hours is manageable. These days I more often just do a solid 1.5-2 hour ride with very few breaks then pack it up and go home. I don't do all day rides with lunch breaks etc. that often.
I reckon this will be the deciding factor for many riders. Years ago I remember staying out most of the day and clocking up a lot of dirt riding miles. The Stark Varg would be terrible for that (at least until you can opt for a second battery that isn't so expensive). But it would fit perfectly for our rides nowadays...
@@crosstrainingenduroI don't know how bad it would really be for an '''all day ride" the ones I do these days typically result in riding a 5min section of trail, then sitting around huffing and puffing with helmets off for 10mins. Curious as to how much of a recharge you can get in say a one hour lunch break.
@@noControl556If you charge on 220/240v you get a little over 1% per minute. I've been charging on breaks back at the truck and can basically ride as long as I want. The only issue I have run into is Hare Scrambles/GNCC or endurance races where you have long trail mileage at a fast pace and no ability to recharge quickly. Everywhere else its been just fine.
@@japandrzDo a lot of places you ride have 240v outlets in the parking area?
@@DoubleRuination My generator has 240v. Occasionally when we camp at riding areas there are 240v hook ups. Most rides I do, I do not even bring my generator. Depends on where we go.
Always good to watch your reviews and videos! Thanks!
Nice, concise and honest review. Refreshing. And thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Thanks, we try to be as objective as possible along with a reasonable amount of scepticism.
One of our local riders has had the battery fail and Stark had to ship them a new one. Their Kickstand also broke. Shane Pinney is his name, he's been vlogging a lot of his experiences on CZcams. Granted, they ride a lot more than the average rider.
Any idea on what the warranty is for the battery? Given how expensive they are, I think it would really suck if it's only 12 months. I couldn't find anything on the website about this.
@@crosstrainingenduro I believe Stark sent them a battery on warranty. No idea how long the warranty is good for.
Stark Varg and Beta 250 2 stroke owner here.
Quite a good review, but i will add my critical look on both your video and the Stark:
1) Where did you find the flywheel effect etc etc? The only adjustments i'm aware off are HP and engine braking.
2) A experienced MX rider will not get 1hr at the track. Maybe a hardpacked tight one, but not on sand/ruts/speed. I get about 40 minutes and i'm far from a pro. Riders at the National level here get about 20-25 minutes.
3) The weight. Well it does feel lighter than my Beta 250 2 stroke. A blindfold review would say about 10kg both in MX and Enduro. It only really gets heavy when you need to lift it on the too high centre stand. A bit of rounding on the metal grips wouldn't have hurt too, wich the grips now actually do.
4) The sidestand just sucks. No way around it. Allready lost 2 sidestand brackets wich the first they did replace under warranty, the second they promised me they are working on a better and longer bracket wich i will be getting. Good thing you can lay the bike on it's side without leaking.
5) The tubes are too thin. In MX jumping i blasted both. I had a KTM wheel with BIB mouse in it and installed it, the heavy mouse made it more controleable mid flight. Not that controleabilty was bad, it just got better.
6) Broken the switch. Sand gets in between the button and the casing. so i could not ''downshift'' and ended up in 80 hp in the CrossCountry race, wich is quite a challenge riding over wet obstacles. Also after shutting it wouldn't go into ''gear'' because you need the down button. There is a dashboard, why not add redundancy there?
7) I do miss the clutch a bit. Taddy saying he doesn't miss it is not good evidence since he is on Stark's payroll. When stuck in axle deep mud and sand the Stark is a bit underpowered. A LOTT of torque x low rpm is still low power. In those situations on my 250 i can pull the clutch, build revs and drop clutch to unleash all the power and more you will ever need in such situation. Also after an obstacle or ''wheeliejump'' it can be very usefull to cut the power with something that's not rolling backwards while going faster. Got myself hit into a tree once.
8) Good point on it rolling downhill. A parking brake be it electrical or mechanical would be nice on the enduro version (lets not forget this is a MX bike).
9) Where is our reverse? A E bike does not have 1 single good excuse not to have it. When we go out riding 1 bike goes forward, the other backwards into the van. How nice would it be if it could power itself up. Not to speak of all the situations being stuk and needing to get of the bike to pull it back.
10) I will not stop ranting about the dashboard disconnecting a lott of times and not storing my rides. Even worse not showing my battery levels on a riding day.
STARK FUTURE, I WANT A PROPER DASHBOARD!
I do however love riding the bike. It's so good i actually feel disappointed when i need to ride the 250 wich is also a bike i love.
Hi Erwin. Flywheel effect? See pinned first comment, it's not available yet. Thanks for your comments, I'll put some of these in the pinned first comment!
That was an excellent review Barry. I’m looking forward to my buddy letting me ride his as soon as the weather gets a little better.
Keen to see what you think of it, Dave!
I agree with you completely. I got mine since Nov. 2023.
No issues so far?
No issues! I added an electronic horn, an automatic brakelight, made the sidestand steeper, changed the light tubes and rode 300 km senior offroad@@crosstrainingenduro
Great review! I appreciate your content as someone with a healthy dose of skepticism.
Thanks, we do cop a bit of flak from some viewers who expect the usual gushing praise of all bikes or products tested!
Great review as always. Hopefully you will get your hands on a MT450 soon I’d love to see an honest review on that.
The main appeal of this bike for me is the reduced anger from people if you're ever caught riding in "semi legal" areas
you notice the weight a lot less because of the torque I feel. nice to see someone who I trust review this bike
Will be cool when someone makes a kit for rego, then look out state forests/national parks
I've got one and love it. Everyone who has had a ride of mine likes it alot - and a bunch of them only rode it on 35hp and were too scared to turn it up. Yesterday during some hard enduro single track nonsense i gave a guy a go and his immediate feedback was that it felt so quick and nimble (after he stopped for me cause i couldn't keep up). Rec rego wasn't too hard to arrange. Being able to hear what the tyres are doing is going to help me be a better rider, plus its quite the challenge to ride efficiently to maximize the range. The fact that its going to get better with age via software updates is awesome. I can't wait for the auto-wheelie function. Yes, it's not going to work for some of the rides we do, so i'll have to keep at least 1 other bike. Left hand rear brake for the win. Yes, i could have waited for triple the battery range and half the weight, which would have been ideal, but i don't regret getting it now for 1 second.
Great to hear. I loved being able to hear the tyres on steep descents, just made it easier to brake to the point of losing traction.
Definitely sticking to my 2 smoker. but the traction advancements are much needed for an enduro.
Great video review as always. You so objective, it is reassuring that none of your comments are “paid for” like most of the CZcams reviews. Thank you.
I notice that your partner is riding a EM pure. What are your or his thoughts on this electric bike. I have an escape model and as i grow older I tend to go slower 😂 60 years old I love it but I wish the suspension would be better and the seat could handle with big a..
thanks again.
We'll follow with his review of the EM soon. I barely fit on it but enjoy riding it. Definitely needs stronger suspension for dirt riding!
Wow... The possibilities are electrifying!
Greased lightning!
The answer is yes. I hop logs, stumps, and rocks all the time on the stock valving. I get about 26 miles with 10% battery remaining. ICE is great but I like to listen to the birds chirping while I ride. I am still getting use to hearing the sounds the tires make. The best part is the feel you get with no vibration through the bars like you get with ICE.
ThanKs for the review mate❤
Cant wait for your review on the Fantic "Yamaha" 300 which you might have to privately import to AUS😢
Very interesting. Would like a ride. I love the sound of some engines. But almost no noise is a bonus.
Great video as usual.
Personally I didn't find the noise annoying although it can get loud when you hit the throttle hard. But I was just trying to hang on and not really noticing it lol. It's still very quiet from a distance, only potentially loud for the rider.
Damn it Barry, my cheap side had successfully talked me out of having a stark on the top of my to-buy list, now its back up there again.
Yep. Make you want one, doesn't it?
Sorry. 😂 Hopefully you could get a test ride first? You never know if that whirring sound makes you grit your teeth! I didn't mind it and found it way better than a loud four stroke. So cool being able to hear what your rear knobby is doing in terms of traction.
@@crosstrainingenduro I ride a pretty loud obnoxious four stroke, so the electric noise will probably feel nice and serene.
That’s for that . Good job 👍
Heck yeah!
Been waiting on you guys to grab one and let me know how it’d do when riding how I would. Not motocross but enduro.
Thank ya kindly.
🏍️💨
I was pleasantly suprised. I figured it would just not work as it is really meant to be an mx bike. But it's all so adjustable...
@@crosstrainingenduro After viewing if I didn’t already want one I would now. It’s the undeniable sound of amazement that everyone who throws a leg over one has when explaining their experience that has me sold even more on owning one.
Maybe after I pay off my other bikes first. 😆 And it will be interesting to see its competition the next couple years.
Thanks again
That positive reaction seems to be across the board, Luke. To date I haven't been able to find a video where someone rode then said 'Meh'. I'm sure it can and will happen, but I can't find any evidence yet. But it will be interesting to see if any owners eventually get frustrated with the whirring sound or lack of range in the long term.
I did have a lot of rides with one during last year. The adaptation was not a problem. You do have to fight the tendency to pull the clutch when facing a log or rock climbing, only to understand that's not right at all. That's probably also one of the reasons why pro riders do not use the hand rear brake lever and go with the pedal.
You have the chance to set 5 power maps with tunable engine brake and horsepower. I would tend to set like 30 hp with no engine break, and so on to 80 hp at full engine break, only to be used when you know you're going to get back to the truck... or when going on long descents. Why? Yes, because it has regenerative breaking. If you're not accelerating, you're breaking, aka getting some juice back. That's key to get the battery to last. You just have to understand what power goes better with what terrain taking in account the feeling won't be the same as the battery goes weaker.
Its major flaw for me is the so exposed transmission cover that is prone to break. A full replica in titanium solved that for good until now. It also likes to chew spokes heads like candy or bend the rear sprocket just due to - I assume - a brutal and instantaneous torque.
If on one hand having no clutch is a big advantage, it really bites back on you if you really don't make that ledge because it will fling back with no pity into the bushes if it gets a chance...
After the suspension and shock were dialed at a pro tuner the ride was superior to WPs when speeding. It felt way too hard at the beginning.
The bike does everything standard bikes do. We can normally get around 2 to 3 hour moving time out of a full battery. It tends to last longer on trails rather than just going full blast. Plastics last very very long! Great design and they're Polisport make (Portugal).
Recommend installing ktm handguards with added closed end guards.
It's an absolute beast! Highly recommend it to the weekend rider that goes for short rides up to 40 km - 50 km, or MX tracks. TMDesigns has an awesome chain guard that I cannit recommend more, original one will not last much for the river beds and rock garden warriors. Don't mind about those bladders, for enduro, the best is bib mousse, front and back, period.
Still loyal to ktm, though.
Best regards, mates! 😉🍻
My thoughts after a good amount of time owing an EM is the lack of a gear box is equally important to the clutch for technical riding. A general lack of flywheel inertia coupled with the fact that you are stuck in the equivalent of say 5th gear all the time just kills the ability to have a quick clutch acceleration based on stored energy rather than outright motor torque. This kills the ability to get the bike to lift and ride up a big obstacle. This might sound like a lot of over technical BS but look at some videos. You don’t typically see single speed electric bikes going up a bigger obstacle and being able to hold the front wheel high. They kind of bash into things and hopefully bounce up it. 5th gear on a petro bike in a rock garden wouldn’t be very good either for some of these very same reasons.
For moto and general single track riding though I would agree, this probably is a great bike for the right users! Thanks for the review!
Full Agree on your statement. Once time turn the things im happy to have a bike i still can ride. But so far i will stick onto my good conbustion thing
Glad to see that you enjoyed it 👍
It’s a different riding experience but you can really tell that they did put some effort into developing the bike.
There’s a lot happening in battery development right now, the battery cell supplier has a new cell released with 10% extra capacity. Same size, same weight. I think in the long run we will have a lighter battery on the bike, but the same range.
Also, I’ll have a interview with Anton (CEO Stark Future) on Monday, so just let me know if there’s something you want me to ask him.
Thanks. Probably the questions already asked....
Road registered option coming? Which countries?
Will Royal Enfield's investment lead to dual sport/adv models?
Removeable battery a future option?
Lightweight hybrid option? E.g. halve the battery size for 100kg weight, limited range but a kind of trials oriented Beta Xtrainer option?
Any predictions about the next major breakthrough (e.g. solid state) in battery technology and a guess when it would be worked into Stark models?
I do like the stealth aspect of it, but still really enjoy the sound of ICE, 2 or 4 stroke.
Does the regenerative work on short sections or need to be a long downhill?
Also, I have to wonder how much range is reduced as a percentage due to rider weight. I mean at 6' and 220 lbs without gear, vs. someone 5'6" and 175 with gear. Again, shorter burts vs. extended climbs.
it seems the regen works whenever you back off the throttle completely. it's adjustable too. No idea how much weight affects range. But it should be the same amount as ICE bikes?
Love the Birdman graphics. “Yeah hup”!😁
Great review Baz. I got a look at one of these a month or so ago. Have to say I reluctantly found myself way more interested that I wanted to be😂
I’m sure they’ll be prevalent on the trails soon enough.
Not for me though. I’ve already made up my mind to be buried with my DR😁
The mighty bush pig!
@@crosstrainingenduro yep. He’s off to FFRC tomorrow😁
The battery will need a few cycles before you know how long it will last and also weather temperature has a lot to do with range.
You kind of already answered this question with comments about how well the traction control system works, but I'm just curious if modulating the rear brake lever to control wheel spin, similar to how traction control systems work, is something you guys tested out?
Unfortunately not yet. But I wonder if it could be useful... I've been watching a vid or two of guys in loose rocky terrain and the traction control seems to do an amazing job. Here's one of the vids. This guy rides gold class in hard enduros but says so far he hasn't felt the need for a clutch: facebook.com/reel/388129494005406
In many hard enduro situations I've found that pulling the clutch is easier than releasing the throttle it has saved mi bike from backflips many times, is that just poor riding or do you think it's a good point ?
Not sure, Pablo. I've never whiskey throttled. Neither have the guys I ride with. But I hear it happens for others. If it was really a concern I'd just opt for the left hand rear brake. It is very strong and would probably work way better at bringing the front down than pulling a clutch in.
While riding technical terrain my clutch has saved me many times from flipping over or to just modulate power. I’m curious what will happen when sliding back on the bike and grabbing a handful of throttle unintentionally, maybe the left side rear brake is enough to prevent this.
If you grab a handful of throttle on an electric bike, you will send the bike shooting out from under you if you have any traction. They have instant torque and can be deadly if not careful.
I think the left hand brake should do the job just as effectively. It's very strong.
Arctic leopard cheetah e xe880 is supposed to be for electric enduro. Costs a little less than the varg. They won the Dakar on it in the electric category
Interesting to see they will do a road legal version in Europe too.
Are those lightweight tubes made from TPU? If so, they're very durable in bicycles and I'd expect the same for dirt bikes.
There are a few reports of them not holding up very well...
How was it for wheelies? I use the clutch to dampen the power and sometimes save my butt. I know you guys can do great wheelies so was just wondering. Great review
Far too easy lol. I barely did any as I tend to never do them on other people's bikes. I'd definitely start in a low power setting!
So much easier and safer to learn with the rear hand brake. 40hp setting is suitable to be able to flick it up
How much is a second battery?
Taking two batteries to the track would basically give you more riding time than you can probably use in a day, enduro or MX.
Not sure with the Varg but they are usually at least 1/3 of the bike's cost, so way too much for us average joes.
I really want one, but I think better wait a few more years for the technology and development to catch up.
Thanks Barry!
Cheers Ryan!
Cant wait to put playing cards in the spokes for sound effects
😍
I see you were riding with an electric trial bike and he seemed to keep up well. Is that the bike from electric Motion?
Having a trial bike for training that can also be used for shorter enduro rides would be interesting. How is it functioning in this role?
One of the earlier EM E-Pure models, also owned by the guy who bought the Stark. He just dabbles in trials socially with a bunch of other guys and loves it. He can ride the tougher parts of his property with it easily but isn't really into the hard enduro stuff that my group is keen on.
Personally I'm keen on some kind of trials hybrid bike for our rides. The Beta Xtrainer has been the closest I've found to date.
@@crosstrainingenduro Oh yes, an electric trial-hybrid that is akin to the x-trainer or maybe more towards trials, like Ossa, would be sweet. And the versatility of the electric motor could alleviate some of the Explorer's shortcomings.
So it can possibly do a double blips on logs? I can't imagine, unless it does overide traction control when you suddenly twist throtle to do a wheelie
Taddy Blazusiak is now riding one in endurocross events so you can see him tackling big obstacles. He's had to adjust his style but says riding without a clutch has been fine so far... I suspect the traction control gradually eases off the more throttle you dial in? We always avoid wheelspin where possible but you can see some guys roosting like crazy on their Starks.
Radio Birdman rock!
hey barry, was this purchased in Australia? how much and who from? thx
I'd have to double check with the owner. He was one of the very first pre-order guys at $100 I think. Total was somewhere between 16k and 18K? I think it was direct from overseas.
Hello Cross Training! I also have noticed how suitable it is SPECIFICALLY for a person with large (size US15) boots NOT to have a rear brake on pegs. How much easier it is to walk on pegs on Stark and NOT hit neither brake no speed lever. How much comfort this add on uphills, corners. Stark is great for tall and big foot riders!
Good point!
im waiting for longer battery life but this is nice to see
Is this what you will replace the sherco with now that it's sold?
No, we need road registration to ride in our public forests. And 118kg is too heavy for our slow technical trails. I'd rather see the battery cut in half and under 100kg weight as we rarely ride more than 15km!
I tried the Stark Varg and it felt super high quality, but for my skill level my Surron Storm Bee does the same, but cheaper, with a reverse and a license plate.
Our Canadian crew rode the Suron for four days as well, looking forward to their review which I'll post on this channel.
Oh damn. I think we've entered the era where I may actually replace my aging Husky with an electric bike when the time comes.
Radio Birdman 💯
Are the hours counted to include rests? Or 2-3 hours on the gas?
Just riding time. We did check the files and if we stopped briefly at a corner it did seem to include that as 'running time'. As per the vid, we weren't on the gas for our three hours, just cruising around.
But does it smell like Castrol R ?
It smells of burning electrical insulation. 😂
Good info. It would be nice to have a clutch as a way to kill power in a whisky throttle situation
A few guys have mentioned this but if you opt for the left hand brake lever it should function the same way... hopefully.
And do we have practice with rebuilding e bikes?. price per motor hour ? I want to compare it with 450 top\bottom rebuild. Thats fair enough i think.
I'm keen to see this too. Theoretically the motor should need rebuilds less often and be cheaper. But only time will tell.
I have one of these, I have never seen adjustable flywheel effect…..where is this?
I fitted both the rear foot and hand brake to mine with the Clake dual brake kit, it works great, no clutch required. Stock tubes are useless, I got 2 flat tyres first ride with tyre sealant in the tubes. Fit normal style tubes. That said, easiest and most fun bike I have ever ridden, I was quicker on it than my 350 within minutes.
I installed Bibs & never noticed a difference... those stock Tubes are a Joke!
Early Stark promos said it would have these adjustments. We went looking and it seems there are only default settings to date. They might eventually update the software to allow fiddling around?
@@crosstrainingenduroCorrect, it’s a feature that will come in a later update.
@@crosstrainingenduro I hope so, I was hoping for a torque curve adjustment, but virtual flywheel should have the same effect.
Traction control is currently your right wrist, there’s no functional traction control currently. The new features like adjustable power curves, traction control, flywheel effect will likely come as part of a subscription service within the app.
Add a speaker and make play list of engine sounds
Would love one if i were younger at the mx track every weekend because i can top the battery up after every 15-20 minute run before i need a rest or reset.
But if i get up early to drive out to the forest, i want to spend the day riding, not just a few hours, and having full Rego on a 300 means TAC insurance in Vic which is important.
Im a fan of electric toys, i love my solar panels in summer (they run my aircon for free + cheaper bills all year).
Its lithium batteries that i dont like. We need a lighter, safer, longer lasting (more reliable) alternative to lithium before invest in an electric bike or car
Solar AC sounds great, did you get DC air con?
@@crosstrainingenduro nah its house solar, People JUST wont like electric anything, Im all for it. Its great harvesting energy for free.. the panels paid them self off already.
I just want a better solution to Lithium, like a new, safe, more reliable version before i put a battery in my house next to my bikes and car in my garage
Also then if i can make an electric bike last 8-10 hour day with a lunch break in the bush, i would be all over it
The less electronics in a bike the better!
These bikes could be an absolute nightmare few years down the road imho
The whirring noise would get on my nerves lol
But in saying that,my local stark dealer is selling them like hotcakes
Radio Birdman graphics. Nice! Who did them?
Some local sticker mob.
You should test the SurRon ultra bee. Could be a good light weight trail bike alternative and half the price of the varg.
Our Canadian cousins have a review on the way. They did a four day test of it along with the Stark Varg.
@@crosstrainingenduroAwesome! I'm running 40hp(usually at 20hp for trail riding) on my ultra bee with a bigger 6.5kWh battery and aftermarket Torp controller. Also 18/21 wheels. It's kind of halfway between the Varg and stock Ultra Bee both price and performance wise. Range is at or better than the Stark though
Hell yes
Can you road register it in Vic?
You can't road register it anywhere. Rec reg would probably be okay...
our local mx track is pretty deep, not mega deep but pretty deep - in 50hp mode it lasted 21mins and died.....good luck all, just know what you are buying
Soft sand? I've been monitoring owner reports and these tend to suggest 40 to 60 mins for experienced mx riders, but not pro level. But I reckon there are plenty of variables that could change that dramatically.
@@crosstrainingenduro Throttle control...being smooth & not hammering for no reason helps battery life. At 40HP in soft Heavy sand I can pull a 450 in a drag race.... controlling your traction is key in getting more Battery life....we are seeing in Single track...Master A to AA skill rider about 50km
What about actual miles for range? My 450 with a 1.6 gallon tank got 22 miles of aggressive trail riding and hill climbs before the fuel light came on, I would imagine the Varg is in a the ballpark of that.
Seeing about 30 miles of aggressive single track in FL with Master A / AA Rider.... you can charge it pretty fast at 240V to continue
play riding
Depends on so many factors. But a rough rule of thumb? Some owners are saying it's comparable to a 450 mx bike with the standard small tank.
Oh, wait, what? CZcamss most skeptical reviewers are liking the Varg?
Where are the haters gonna find support now? Guess DirtBikeKyle is the only channel left to hope for 😂 That and old videos from 2014. #embracethefuture
We KNEW he would like it, tough not to. Range is the last thing to wait on...
@@dallas_shannon Range is the only reason i can't buy one. It won't make a hare scramble.
I would love to see a video showing someone trying enduro techniques on the Varg
Like pivot turns, log jumps, double blip etc…
There’s a lot of debate about whether a clutch is necessary so actually showing someone doing it on a Varg would be cool
There's a bit of footage showing Taddy in endurocross. He says he has just adapted to not having a clutch and no issues. But of course he's sponsored by them so possibly he really misses the clutch?
czcams.com/video/_QE7o1U-5eU/video.html
A local guy is entering his Stark Varg in silver class at hard enduro events, as mentioned in the vid. So far he says no problem with no clutch...
instagram.com/reel/C4cgAIULT4B/?igsh=amw2cXEwYTl6enB6
facebook.com/reel/792281532755844/
I took a video in my yard just for this comment. Not the smoothest log jump, just screwing around in jeans czcams.com/users/shorts_biqlqlnywg
@@japandrz awesome!
Im 14 years old trying to find a good dirt bike but can’t find any good bikes under 1000€ if you know any bikes please let me know! Thanks
In all honesty do you reckon you’ll get bored with it after 6-12 months? will you be reaching for the fuel can after the initial novelty wears off? 🤔
and find you no longer have any fuel cans, or petrol on your property. I dont miss time and money spent at the fuel station
A few guys have asked that. It will be interesting to see if within a year we hear about owners selling for that reason. My guess is probably no. There is so much power on tap I doubt the Stark would ever be boring. But possibly some guys will come to hate the whirring sound. Or begin wanting more range from the battery?
@@paularthur7386 you’d want to hope not mate otherwise how will you charge your battery at the track or the trail head? you’re just replacing one fuel powered internal combustion engine with another 🤷♂️
whats that graphics kit youre rocking there?
He had it designed by some local graphics mob. I've never even heard of the band Radio Birdman...
Pros to e bikes I see. Quiet so more riding possibilities. No emissions so street legality is a simpler issue of titling for the bike and horn lights etc. Ease of use, more people will ride because they don't need maintenance. And the customization for power delivery, if this were expanded you could theoretically buy one bike and it last your whole progression as a rider.
So how many KMs per charge.
Huge number of variables, impossible to say. Running time is more accurate but even that can vary so much.
Have you guys tried Surron Ultra Bee? Majority of points you have apply for trail riding. But it's half the price and far lighter (185 lb).
I immensely enjoy mine.
Or even better (though more expensive) Electric Motion 2024 Escape series.
Our Canadian cousins tested it for four days and will be doing a review soon. Great to hear you are enjoying yours!
@@crosstrainingenduro will be very interesting to see their impressions 😁
Think a Ultra Bee or similar will suit me for my single track made for trials bike riding.
@@zxcvbnmnz no guarantees, everyone's different, but it suits me like a glove 🤣
And that's the critical thing... what suits you! It's ridiculous that some guys are so blinkered that they say a certain motorbike is terrible simply because it doesn't suit their riding style. They are so narrow minded they can't believe other riders have different criteria.
👍
6hr true battery life (15hr rated by Stark), PDS, clutch, 250lbs, and I'm in. Probably another 10yrs or so...
what do you do when you whiskey throttle with no clutch?
Brake
If it was really a concern I'd just opt for the left hand rear brake. It would actually work way better at bringing the front down than pulling a clutch in.
@@crosstrainingenduro im trying to imagine being full throttle with a handful of rear brake would be like.
@@billypulsipher1544it depends how it is designed. On all road electric bikes, levers cut power immediately, before activation of mechanical brakes. I guess they implement same system on varg
I'd like to see a dual sport version.
I'm sure someone will add the 20lbs of required gear to make it street legal. But still with the higher traction and speeds on the street: how far can you go if your round-trip has to fit into about 2 hours?
That would be the smart thing to work on next. With 50 million euro investment from Royal Enfield I bet they'll be pushing for it.
@@MikeKirkReloadedI’m just looking to be able to ride to the trails legally from my house. I wouldn’t take a gas powered dual sport much further either.
Look at a ZeroFX! I use it for short dual sport rides. It has a bigger battery pack than the stark too. Stark is 6.2kwh I believe and the zeroFX is 7.2kwh
@@brock1732FX is a street bike. Horrible on trails compared to the Stark.
I really hate that I gave up my early guaranteed price pre order
How long to swap batteries?
As far as I know it's not designed for quick swaps. I think you can recharge is something like an hour or so? Which is probably okay for mx events. The batteries cost way too much for your average joe to have a second one. Although the price should drop a lot in coming years. Perhaps they'll make a swappable option then?
This is an encouraging review! My buddies and I really need a review for how the battery holds up on a solid Mcnutt ride. Anyone?
A few owners are now posting about their battery life. Some of them might have similar terrain and riding style to you? I figure this is McNutt in BC? Great trails!
@@crosstrainingenduro that's the one! Am I overly optimistic to think that we could squeeze out a 3 hour ride by using lower power settings and regenerating the battery going downhill? Do the lower power settings give you enough power to get up steep obstacles?
@@paulsmithbc Depends on the length of those trails. I rode my Varg for 4hrs today on very rocky singletrack mixed with flowing double track (connectors) and I had 36% charge left. Also depends on what you consider 3hrs of riding. 3hrs straight with no stops? Or 3hrs like most people stopping to BS or wait on others? Most riders, myself included, don't actually ride 3-4 hrs straight. Battery life is better than I expected. I have a few videos on my "channel". Just short clips but it shows the kind of terrain we were on today. I wear out before the battery does.
@@japandrz OK, thats positive! I'll check out your channel!
@@paulsmithbc Sounds good. I just post unedited short videos, nothing fancy. I ride the Varg on everything from extreme enduro to MX.
How easy is it to push, if it's dead?
Easy so I assume it disengages somehow.
@@crosstrainingenduro thanks!
It's not only about weight. 2stroke bikes more handling becouse lower center of gravity. I think this battery with high CG is really bad for handling. Its more like old steel frame wr450f 120+kg handling, not like your modern 2 strokes.
I suspect the overall centre of gravity is pretty low, it doesn't feel heavy at all once moving. But if you drop it or lift it on to the stand? Yeah it feels like a pig lol. We ride lots of slow technical terrain so I wouldn't buy one until it was about 10kg lighter.
Ive never had an enduro bike and the high service intervals and short life span scares me, if these come to my country at a decent price I might just get into enduro. It cant be worse than a ktm enduro if I never tried one
With all batteries their power decreases over time. How long before battery life decreases and then how much would a battery costs. I could never consider something like this unless these things were known because at the end of the day they are extremely expensive dirtbikes
They are saying 1500 - 2000 charge cycles. If they run for 2 hours each cycle, that is 3-4000 hours. When is the last time an ICE had 3000 hours on it? 😆
When the batteries cost so much I would definitely be concerned about how long they last. Stark's claims look very good but it will take time to tell if those pan out. It would certainly help if batteries had an extended warranty e.g. three years or 1000 charge cycles - whichever came first. 🤔
You did the best review I've seen so far an confirmed all I had already been hearing an seen.. a gas bike is cheaper, so far the gas bikes last longer as far as mileage I mean, an also you can ride all day on a tank of gas or all week depending on how much you ride in a day.. an the battery fire things is a scary thing!! An that by itself is enough to turn anyone off from buying electric cars or bikes.. an also a clutch is essential for trials an Enduro racing.. an the 80hp is highly exaggerated! I've ridden big bore 2 strokes most of my life an I watched the guys at Kaplan cycles just dog these stark bikes to death! An I promise you you will not dog a 500cc 2 stroke bike like that! Even they wouldn't as many big bore bikes as they have ridden in there videos! Yet claimed they were the fastest bikes they ever rode, an I laughed cause it was just propaganda cause they are now getting big money to sell them! So thank you for your very honest review.. ❤
Actually the claimed 80hp may be accurate but measured at the crank (the figure most manufacturers use because it looks better). Dyno charts are showing around 70hp at the rear wheel, significantly more than any of the 450 four stroke or 500 two stroke mx bikes. It's still pretty pointless unless drag racing or motarding I think!
p.vitalmx.com/styles/s1200/s3/photos/inline/basic/varg%20dyno.png?VersionId=HTbBjqi_7iyslysxYcT_Bp95cPpmcQ1t&itok=Lq5xd0SE
I wouldn't say a clutch is essential. We have a local gold class hard enduro rider saying he doesn't really need the clutch, you can just modulate the throttle. I'd tend to agree from my ride too. But some may differ.
@crosstrainingenduro thanks for the honest reply back.. As you stated most will never use the 80hp an most that ride big bore bikes never use all the power unless they have a death wish!🤣 but they used to have a class for the big bore bikes in MX from Jean Michelle bayle, Rick Johnson, Jeff Stanton, Jeff ward an most pro 450 riders today cannot handle the big bore 2 strokes an plenty of videos to back up what im saying.. ask any of em an they will tell you theres a big difference between the 2 an the 4 strokes. the biggest 2 things I'd say that will turn people away is 1. A charge doesn't last long and 2. Not durable or dependable 3. The fact it may over heat an catch fire whether being charged or ridden.. that definitely turns me away.. an the price! I can buy a yamaha, husqvarna, KTM gas burner cheaper.. as far as Enduro racing goes that's usually an all day race an ya can't race a stark in those unless they change the rules to allow for charge time.. or have extra bikes to ride. Again that's another rule change.. if they fixed all the kinks an made it cheaper I'd be up for it.. but till then I guess I'll stick to what is the best bang for my dollar.. thank you for you wisdom an time to reply back.. 💯❤️👍
Yes, but does it have a "wheelie me" button? 😅
Told you so 😂👍. Almost like I heard my own voice…
The only real issue for my type of riding is range and the fact that you can’t yet get it registered for road use here in Sweden.
Aj, synd att den inte går att få reggad!
how hot was the motor running for this slow riding style? contrary to popular belief bldc motors run like trash at low speeds (better than gas but still pretty bad) so it must have been making lots of heat. also did the different power modes feel much different at low riding speeds? once again contrary to popular belief bldc motors do not make flat power whatsoever and at low speeds they make particularly bad power output. this means that if the bike is designed ot last long then the different power modes should not feel much different at all at low riding speeds such as sub 35kmh. if they did feel very different then its probably destroying itself in the process of making too much power for the components to safely handle.
The fan was kicking in at times. I figure there'd be some kind of alarm and/or slowing of the motor if the temp was too high? A local gold class hard enduro rider is doing lots of slow riding and no reports on overheating as yet. facebook.com/reel/388129494005406
At lower speeds/throttle openings the difference in power modes wasn't as noticeable. But my understanding is you can adjust the power curves to suit?
@@crosstrainingenduro nice to see that it isnt overheating. thats a great sign. and you probably are correct that it would have a warning or limit the power output. its also good that the power modes felt the same at low speeds. the power curves are adjustable but bldc motor do not make good low rpm power and since the high and low power modes felt the same at low speeds it means that the bike is not pushing the components too hard and is respecting that limit of power outputs at low speeds. so the power is probably not adjustable at low speeds, its probably set to a hard limited maximum. but thats a good things since it means that the components will last a long life. thanks for answering those questions
The electric motor is almost silent. What you hear is actually the gears.
The only gears on this bike is the front and rear sprockets on the final drive….what you are hearing is the armature whine.
Clutches are crutches. I just started riding MTB and nearly endoed a few times as I grabbed a touch of front brake as I wanted to pop up over a root 😆
You should let Graham know. He has been teaching clutch control is key for years. Him and all those trials riders.
personally i change places on my levers on my push bikes.. front brake is always on the right, rear on the left. works great for me, not so much for the person trying my bike though.. :D
@@777Melinused to prank my friends this way as a kid.. told one of my friends to bomb it down a hill and do a really long skid.. he pulled the left lever and nosedived straight into the road 😂
Wish they'd release a street legal version
I'd like it to have the option of sounding like a 2 stroke going through the gears or maybe a turbine or a dog sled, woof woof
Or my preference... a blown 426 hemi!
@@glennalderton1313 ...or a Harley with shorty pipes
Of course can only be ridden on private property. We are a long way from a road registerable dual sport, mainly due to battery technology. Imagine a KTM E500xc with 400 km range weighing less than 150 kg and 30 minutes charging.
We know one guy who already has recreational registration which I think is available in half the Australian states. Canada has it. Not sure about other countries. The Arctic Leopard is very similar and sold in road going form in Europe. But yeah, the range will be limited with current batteries.
@@crosstrainingenduro No such thing in NSW unfortunately. You would hope they bring out a model with all the lights etc.
I reckon they'd already be planning that. A similar bike, the Arctic Leopard, already has a street legal version for sale in Europe.
Im more keen than anyone for electric dirt bikes but 3 hours of riding before the battery goes flat is a joke. I would be so annoyed if I was in the middle of a good trail and had to turn back
It will be a 'joke' for anyone wanting a range that matches ICE bikes but I think everyone is aware of that. But there plenty of riders where it will be fine.
fine for mx
useless for distance
battery tech isnt there yet
Absolute luddite here, but, why can't manufacturers of smaller EV's, like motorcycles, make the battery removable? While range is unaffected (a bit difficult to carry the spare) it would increase the time on the bike at a track day, for example. I know cost is somewhat prohibitive but, it's absolutely possible, yes?
It's a good idea. Then if and when second batteries are cheap just swap to 'refuel'.
The KTM Freeride EXC has a hot swappable removable battery. I have two batteries and it takes maybe 2 minutes to swap to a new one
Teddy is getting checks from Stark. I would ignore his feedback.
I'm still keen to hear what he says, but yes, a massive dose of healthy scepticism lol.