Stark Varg Electric Dirt Bike vs 500cc 2 Stroke | Hot Lap Shootout!
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- čas přidán 23. 10. 2023
- Which is faster? A state of the art Electric powered Dirt Bike or a Fuel Injected 500cc 2 Stroke Motocross Monster? It's time to find out, the future of Moto hangs in the balance, Kong vs Stark. Let's do this!
We pitch the Stark Varg E-MX bike against our BRC racing powered Husqvarna 500 two stroke. Both Max and Sean will ride and review each bike before we get the stopwatch out for a hot lap challenge to see which bike is best once and for all.
A huge thanks goes to Ryan and the Moto101 crew for letting us borrow one of their Stark's for this shoot. You can hire and ride one for yourself at Moto101. Find more info here: hirememoto.com/pages/book-you...
As always a massive thank you must go out to our channel sponsors for supporting what we do and helping make these videos possible!
For your dirt bike/ MX hard parts, accessories and much more check out 24MX: www.24mx.com/
Use our code 999lazer for 15% off a whole bunch of products on the 24MX store including this rapid fuel jug - www.24mx.co.uk/product/twenty...
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And be sure to check them out on social media and thank them for helping make these videos! - / putoline
We use Putoline MX9 in our 2 Stroke bikes :-)
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And also a big thanks to O'NEAL for always helping us to enjoy the ride: oneal.com/ - Sport
Not sure why everyone has this replacement theory in accepting electric. I can take my 450 to the track or the trails and ride all day. What I can’t do is ride out my garage and poach the hills next to the golf course. On the stark, I can. I can also take my son and his electric 50 around the golf course and shovel some chunks and hide in the trees while we ride like we used to when I was a kid.
I think as motocross dirtbike and off-road enthusiast. We should embrace things like this as another tool in our belt. When it new tool comes out, you don’t drop your whole belt and buy the new tool. You just add that tool to your belt to become more well-rounded and more capable. I don’t see the problem with this thing, in fact, I think that is amazing and it also create competition. That’s gonna drive the two stroke and four stroke bikes to get better as well.
Absolute win for the Varg given he was barely used to it at all and it was on only medium power. It would absolutely smoke Kong given some more seat time. Biggest thing with the electric bikes though is that they'll keep tracks open in more places, no noise complaints! Imagine all EV motorcross tracks right next to housing and cities, it can happen.
I get a kick out of statement like that. it's not that there's anything illogical or wrong about it. it's just...cities are frackin' LOUD. some cities - wait for it - never sleep. anyway. I agree with you. just made me think of the irony that cities are much louder and more "disruptive" in every way compared to suburban and rural settings. ooh. I'd love to have a track in suburbia though. heh.
Those miserable shitheads would still find a reason to complain....the world is full of busy bodies that hate the sight of people having fun....
Imagine all the fun and testosterone that would subsequently disappear after the implementation of EV bikes...
@@danegCome off it, the dB of an MX bike with MX pipe, compared to typical city noise is chalk and cheese. Talk about grasping at straws.
@@dadthelad no one's grasping at straws, asshat. I'm all for ebikes and the way it opens up new spaces to MX. I was having a little fun with city vs country living.
Sean is a badass rider, the amount of info he got on how that bike operates in one day is amazing.
One thing to keep in mind is that the Varg is the first of its kind and is quite a weapon.
Of course I also like the sound of conventional engines.
But the Varg is so cool for the first shot, the development will continue and in the next 10 years I think this sport will change radically.
Even though I also think the Kong is cool, the Varg clearly shows where the journey is going. Think about the 2nd and 3rd generation of the Varg and other manufacturers will follow suit. This will be great. Hopefully I won't be too old for these machines by then.
Wrong, the Alta was the first of it's kind. I have a 2018 MXR and that thing RIPS. Faster than my 450.
I just watched a 71 year old man deadlift 500 pounds . Don't think with that mindset . You will be ripping these mfers
Great episode Boys! Love that "It's like dancing to your favorite song without the music" is perfect!
"Dancing to your favorite song, without the music" perfect line, I'll be stealing that to describe electric vehicles now hahaha
Doesn't work for electric cars which have a sound system so you can listen to Tchaikovsky violin concerto
@@Mew-ip3iy I believe "your favorite song" is suppose to mean the sound of a 2stroke not a litteral song
We will end up riding with headphones listening the sound of a 500 2 strokes... 😂
What a great vid! I personally at 45 will never own an electric bike! But as everything is it will become a generation thing, our kids will grow up riding these bikes and after a few years easily be able to throw them about on the max setting! Not for me though I like the sound and smell of a petrol engine
One twist of the dial... 80hp instead of 55... He was far from losing contol at that low setting. Imagine turning back advance on the stroke 😂
I grew up on 2 strokes took apart my first at age 5... Just happy to see this new technology 👍
How are you going to charge it at the race track?
electric bikes are still new, im sure there will be some ideas in the future or completely ruling out the need to charge it by maybe greatly increasing the battery life or something like that.@@motodude46
@@motodude46you can change the batteries on electric bikes. Take two or 3 batteries with you
@@motodude46you don’t. You take multiple batteries with you. Batteries are very expensive now but they won’t be lithium iron for much longer and are going to be a lot cheaper so it’s a very conceivable scenario.
run a gennie...who cares...you will still get more distance per dollar spent on fuel, and with alot more performance available to you also@@motodude46
That 500cc 2 stroke is an absolute beast. We used to call them the widow maker because too many weekend riders would buy a 500 and end up paralyzed or dead after a short ride. Love to buy me a new electric bike like this tho.
me too
Lol the tale of the 500cc grow larger and larger😂
Used to ride a late 80s model KX 500 all through the deserts in California growing up. Man that thing was a beast
@@richr161i went from a 250 4 stoke to a 500 2 stroke that was carbed and had to immediately sell the bike. More power than fun
I believe that was just something that 500cc bike owners use to say back in the 80s and 90s, to make themselves feel like badasses when parked up together on the sidelines while watching dudes have shitloads of fun whipping their 125s/250s around, and ultimately being happy just knowing that after each time they turn over, their little bikes won’t cause them to plop out little shits into their pants from the grunting and pushing, in an attempt to wiggle their bodies out from a 500cc ankle anchor in a race for time to get out from under it before the exhaust pipe has time to melt thru all your clothing layers.. First thru pants, then thermals, then thru your Power Ranger underwear, until it ultimately reaches that tender virgin, Snow White, inner thigh meat..
Well, now that I’m really thinking about it..
--(WARNING: ENTERING STORY MODE: We hope you Enjoy your reading for the rest of the evening)--
I believe all this just stems from PTSD I personally experienced, back on the farm when I was around 12 years old, from the battle I continuously endured trying to Ride my dad’s Suzuki. It was a beefed up RM 465cc and the only way I could mount the bike was by stacking two of those bigger cinderblocks beside the bike and With the bottom cinderblock staggered out just a couple inches towards the bike more then the top, and the corner of the bottom block precisely positioned in front of the kickstand, so with the bike started, I would have to Put my left foot on the senior block, top top of the cinderblock and jump up and across the seat like mounting a big ass horse, but the tricky part was.. Right as I’m jumping up from the wobbly cinderblock tower, I would have to pull the clutch in as my leg was swinging over the seat, then as soon as my little 75 pound ass hit that seat, I would have to kick it down into 1st gear with tiptoes, quickly throttle gas and dump clutch, and if the rigged bottom cinderblock worked as planned, it would push the kickstand up as I was pulling out (although, roughly 1 out of every 4 or 5 of these “take-offs”, the Cinderblock would slide, or the kickstand would miss it entirely, and that would quickly result in a turnover every time) But being so light weight, I had to take turns fairly slowly, But once I got going on the bike and had a good straight stretch, I could get that thing screaming while tiptoeing through the gears and those places where I was able to hold it wide open, I remember the back tire would constantly felt like it was skating on ice. With my weight, it was just basically like the dirt bike was driving itself. At all times, If i had the throttled twisted more then 40%, it it was fishtailing side to side. Stopping and getting off it was somehow worse then getting on.. I would literally have to find a tree (usually used this one in middle of yard) and get the bike creeping so slow it would be spluttering, barely staying running, and at the right time and distance, when I got beside the tree I would have to lean towards it, and once i felt the bike was falling over past the point of my ability to stop it, I would have to throw myself off the side opposite of tree and hope the bike would stop and land at least somewhat leaned up on the tree.
I believe this is yet another “CZcams comment” lesson out there for the young ones to see, learn from and avoid.
If you are by yourself in bed, baked to the bone, the loneliest man in the world.. and also fully saturated from other mind alterations.. Do not go to the CZcams comment section to reminisce and transcribe an old childhood memory to release it out to millions of people who understandable couldn’t give less of a fuck,.. because hours later it will hit you and you will realize this is what you just spent your whole afternoon doing and You still haven’t ate breakfast, or fed the dogs, and you even forgot to pick your little cousin up earlier from schoohhhhhhh noooo little fucking Susan Oh I’m fuckked
The thing that I think would be most difficult for me is that there is no gears to select to regulate your approach speed at the face of a jump. Hearing how your engine is revving or dieseling down under engine breaking is an important component in judging how far you will travel in the air for me. I think that I would more than likely end up overshooting my landings. I found when I switched up from a 250 to a 500 that I had to learn the difference in torque and speed because jumps that I was hitting in 3rd gear pinned on a 250 only required 1/2 or slightly more on a 500 otherwise I would overshoot my landing by 15 to 20 feet.
I have always rode according to the symphony of the engine singing. Every single bike has a distinct sound that it makes at the proper speed and as the track conditions change so does the sweet spot of the engine’s power and needed to effectively navigate that change. The lack of such machine feedback would have me constantly in trouble. The other thing is that having throttle response that declines as the battery life depletes mixed with declining track conditions is not a favorable course of events because that is going to mean the rider is going to have to increase focus on overcoming the mechanical disadvantage more which removes the attention from the track dynamics. You shouldn’t have to try and guess what your machine is going to do, you should have the same feel and response in the machine’s mechanical performance from start to finish regardless if the track is fresh or in a horrid state.
When you twist the throttle the performance of the bike and the response of the controls should be the same on lap 10 as it was on lap 1. The only thing that should be different is how much power you need to compensate for the chop that has been created as the track’s condition diminishes. Throttle lag or power loss when conditions ideally are demanding more power and lightning quick response is certainly no bueno in my book. Sorry I’ll stick with a loud petro powered machine and save the electric stuff for pit bikes and riding around with the grandbabies in the yard.
A silent death drap
Well said
after riding both electric and gas bikes, believe me when i say that its so much easier to hve precise control over the bike on n electric bike, its unbelievably fast, smooth and stable
@@mrtankkiller9163 I have never had the opportunity to ride a true electric MX bike on a track. I did get to rip an Alta back a few years at a gravel pit that we used to go to just to tear up a bit and the power delivery was insanely good. I have built many toys that were electric powered and the one thing it has going for it is immediate full-on torque from zero revs to topout. This is the reason why cars like the Tesla Plaid are such beasts in a straight line run, they do not have to get up to a certain rpm to build power.
All I am getting at is it would require me as a rider to learn a new skill set to judge exactly how much throttle I would need to be at to make jumps and judge landings because I have always done this by listening to my engine. I knew how much of a blip I needed, when I would need to blip the clutch to increase my engine speed to break the tire loose, and so on just by listening to the engine and knowing where it needed to be to put the bike where I wanted it to go. Electric bikes do not share that same characteristic in my limited experience on one and it felt very foreign.
Almost everyone with significant seat time (more than a few laps) on the Stark has remarked how they got used to not having gears much more quickly than they expected. Humans tend to underestimate their ability to adapt.
Dude the very best way to explain an electric dirtbike thats actually pretty decent LIKE DANCING TO YOUR FAVORITE SONG MINUS THE MUSIC AWSOME
Absolute Quality Guys, been waiting for this 1 😉
Thanks Gareth
I think the reason why so many riders, myself included, dislike electric bikes is it takes the soul out of the sport. The engine power curve combined with shifting, clutching and sound are all part of riding. When you become in tune with your bike making everything work in harmony you get an unmatched feeling. Knowing when to shift based on feel and sound, getting the power to the by feathering the clutch, using both hands and feet to manipulate the bike… That’s what riding is about. Electric bikes take the soul out of riding.
untill you ride it. like jumping in a Telsla its very different but full torque out 1 yes 1 rpm is a real buzz
@@williamshaneblythI’ve been in and driven many teslas, they’re poorly built and gay.
"Electric bikes take the soul out of riding" my lord you crack me up. You clearly never have rode this Varg, I can say without a doubt and EVERY single pro rider will agree with me that having the break on a lever and no clutch is absoutely amazing and allows you to have far more freedom for technical stuff. Also you clearly dont ride dirt bikes cause the one main issue for all of us is that the rear brake is on a foot pedal and guess what happens when your foot is not on that pedal? Once again ask any pro rider how annoying it is when you cant reach it or in right corners when sometimes your foot is not there and guess what...no brake. You use more of your hands and feet to manipulate a Varg cause they are far more free to do things.
Cool video Max, I think the Varg is a bike to add to your garage not replace ICE bikes. The lack of maintenance will be what pushes electric bikes ahead over time.
Thanks Simon, I agree with you. There is a place for them but its not a replacement
The lack of sound is really what will put them ahead. Imagine motocross tracks with zero noise complaints! So many more tracks could function.
Another factor will come in time. This is a big battery some EVs are capable of vehicle to grid that is they can use the car battery as storage. What does your bike do during the week? So eventually when this is added to these bikes your weekend toy can be powering your house and saving you electricity during the week. Now if your dirt bike could save you enough money to pay for itself over its life??? Is that bot worth considering?
@@cameronlapworth2284That feature won't come to a motocross bike. Their battery chemistry is built to be as dense and powerful as possible. Other battery chemistries like LiFePO4 and Sodium last way longer for home integration purposes. Would be dumb to wear out your Varg battery that way. Could work on a car battery though since it's so big, won't really effect it much
Performance too. The first quad backflip will probably be on a stark varg because of the power. Someone already rotated a quad into a foam pit on one
With the power delivery feeling different from start of the race to the finish that is where riders will struggle with racing technical tracks like Supercross. Your first out lap on a full battery will feel very different to the last lap of a 25min SX race. The weight will stay consistent so that is a positive compared to a petrol bike losing fuel during a moto. Once they can make the bike feel the same power delivery wise from gate drop to finish then that is when it will be awesome. Pro RC car races have already over come this with software or short charging the battery. Great comparison video.
Thanks for watching and great comment. Interesting to know RC cars had the same issue.
Good unbiased and honest review. I think kids growing up today will love the electric. Guys who like us who have grown up with 2/4 strokes just will never fully accept the electric bikes.
Im a kid basically and will never accept electric bikes. Long live 2 strokes.
I grew up on 2-strokes, and love them. But can't wait for battery tech and electric bikes to improve to the point where 2/4-strokes are just left in the dust.
Noise is what puts MX track so freaking far away from our homes. We aren't there yet, but it is coming fast.
10 years ago, the idea of putting an electric MX bike up against a 500 would have been a lame joke.
Today, I think we all know that if the test rider actually spent extended time riding electric MX bikes and getting used to them, he would have wiped the floor with the 500.
In 10 years, the idea of a 500 still being in the same class will be what is laughed at.
@@dadthelad Happens with age as you become older your testosterone decreases heavily.
Unless you have also been deep into electric RC vehicles for years.. We have been waiting for this.. I also grew up riding 2 strokes and those boring 4 strokes..
@@BrigiMiller BORING? BORING!? I have a talaria sting that I ride every day and every day I wish to get a normal 2 stroke.
I grew up on two strokes, long live the two-stroke 👍🏼
💯🤘🏻🤘🏻
Been riding them forever. But i also have an electric Rc car and would be sweet to feel that eeeelectric power in a bike.
Cummins ACE OP 2 stroke mart.cummins.com/imagelibrary/data/assetfiles/0058689.pdf
Been meaning to suggest this video for a while now but here it is.
Honestly thought the stark would have been seconds faster, but I suppose there’s that weight.
Love my 2 smoke but I would happily go electric for the power deliver, no maintenance and more riding options while keeping the Kx for the occasional smiles session.
thanks for watching. We were surprised how close it was. TBH we thought the stark would win, but after riding both Sean thought he was much quicker on Kong. I think the Stark lap times are aided by having no gear changes . It was a cool experiment to do.
Long live Kong!!
@@999lazer realistically if you have been riding gas bikes all your life you cant expect to jump on an electric bike and start putting best lap times after 15 minutes...I mean I'm sure he did great given the circumstances, the bikes has 25 more hp to unlock, endless tuning option with traction control, regen and power and once you recalibrate to single speed and doing everything through fine throttle control, I'm pretty sure if you train like a year on the Varg you can be WAY faster around the track
You dont suppose being turned to only medium power had nothing to do with the outcome?. Both were running at same power but the electric had 30 more hp up its sleeve.
They've done everything to get as much performance from the 500 as possible, and then they limit the varg so the 500 has a chance. Bit unfair.
Yes! I’m so glad that Kong was faster when Stark Varg was set to ”manageable” power output level. Sean, very well said in the end of this video that Stark Varg electric MX bike is like dancing your favorite song without the music... Couldn’t be better said. 😎👍
Thanks for watching :)
Moto101 Grantham good track 👌
Varg won, when we all know they put the Varg on medium power.
Imagine hearing the pros cuss each other off in an all electric race 😂😂
You only love the music because you’ve heard it before. Eventually, that music will annoy future riders as they learn the love the electric wine which will soon be associated with power.
Fantastic video. ever since buying my house, I've been dying to get another bike. Just bought a ktm sx 125 just to get back out there. I do think e bikes are the future as it means no noise complaints!
2 stroke all the way
An honest review of the Stark? Way cool 😎. Very surprising end result on laptime
Thanks guys, we're looking forward to seeing the flux in action.
🤨. Honest review. I’m sorry. But when you run a bike at 70 percent of its potential. It just shows how much faster the stark is. At no where near its potential and running same lap times.
That is so cool that you have a track that rents a bike for you to ride. They sell and have a track. Really cool idea. Don't have anything like that here in the U.S. that I know of.
Can’t wait to get my hands on the varg I’ll be riding it EVERYWHERE!!
Electirc removes much of the fun for me. I love shifting, slipping the clutch, and learning how to 'perfect' it.
You will appreciate it when you're older
Me too..
I am 66, how much longer should I wait?
@@softsellpointofsalesoftwar1453electric just seems soulless for things like vehicles and others that are traditionally combustion engine.
@@softsellpointofsalesoftwar1453 once your sniffing kids and reaching out for hand shakes to people who arent there, youll be ready
Request for a test at Elevation :Thunder Valley mx Park Colorado, race the Mammoth mx 😊 ,
The Gov is at it again cheers for sharing. Greg the Convict from Australia 🇦🇺
Max, I really enjoyed your more natural emotionally invested presentation had me hooked till the end. 2 Pokers every time!! hes right the sound is soundtrack is magical?
Thanks Anya
Definitely the best video on the stark so Far ! Well done Max, Shaun& team. £13000 + £6000 for 1 spare battery, plus the 20kg weight increase I think we will stick with two stroke for now but never say never!
Re the no loss traction, I guess it’s got some pretty impressive software to sense that and manage it.
Thanks for watching Robert. I appreciate your comment :)
No one needs a spare battery 🙌👊🏼 just charge the one you got
@@Moto101uk yes I understand its made to be charged. its not a hot swappable battery you gotta remove panels, and torque back the battery to spec. the battery life seems pretty good, plus you don't have to deplete it completely then charge it 100%. you can do 15/330 mn sessions and charge it between sessions, it will last all day. If you're a pro riding non stop for hours you get two bikes and swap bikes 😀
if you don't like the price just build your own for 4x cheaper
@@zokhrozzWoomzy build a battery?
2 smokers all day long
Thanks for watching :)
They do seem good but a Two Banger for me 👍
Great test Max!
Loved the video
Glad you liked it! Cheers Max
Nothing like the smell of electric bike exhaust in the morning? Whiskey tango foxtrot!
Sure stark said upto 6 hours run time, now I know that dose not mean 6 hours flying round a track but I expected more than 25 - 30 minutes! That's quite disappointing.
Don't forget the performance drops as it goes flat. Credit to 999lazer for mentioning the charging and wait times, not many other reviewers/owners admit to that. An interchangeable battery would get me over the line to buy one, then your 2nd battery can be charging while you are riding.
@@craigdavies8099The battery is very expensive and hard to change
Some guy here on CZcams put one of those snowmobile kits on a varg. It did not look very quick and sounded like it was struggling. I expected 60 or 80hp to be much quicker than that.
@@rockymountainlife8797 450cc MX bikes are slow AF as snow mobiles too...hence why fast snow machines are north of 150hp.
@@OtisFlint the electric 80 hp bike was unlawfully slow. Nowhere near 80hp, like 15hp at most. I have a kx450 on a older snowbike kit. It's plenty fast, and climbs up mountains without struggle.
Long live the 2 and 4 strokers~ I raced for years, and love hearing tho sound bikes make !
Thanks for watching :)
Obviously electric bikes seem to be the future of Motocross in terms of the smallest carbon footprint and just being generally more environmentally friendly.
But in my opinion, apart from the heavy weight of electric bikes due to the large batteries needed, you just can't beat the sound of a 'tinny' 2 stroke hitting it's powerband. That noise is truly awesome. It really is music to my ears. And the added bonus of a 2 stroke is the smell of the exhaust gases.
Clearly I'm a total Petrol Head, but the noise and smell of a 2 stroke engine on song is totally heavenly to me. 😂😂😂😂
Dial that stark just a wee bit and voila… inevitable perhaps.. great vid lads
My deal against the electric bike is simple, with the current technology the bike won't last long enough to race an entire race for me. I'm a cross country racer, and my races last over an hour and a half. The battery in that bike will never last long enough to complete a full long course race.
Not sure either. Saw a guy the other day that was quick getting a bit over 40 miles…..thats right at the acceptable minimum range.
Thanks for watching dude. From our experience with the bike so far you really would struggle to put down a hard half hour of riding. So Enduro races would definitely be out of the question. Although i do think you'd be able to go for a fairly long leisure ride along the trials at a nice easy pace, you best hope that you've got enough juice to get back home though! lol
Unless the XC course has a lot of really wide open sections there’s a pretty good chance it would last 90min. A slower, more woods based track it would. Better way to think of this is; it has 2 gallons worth of electricity. If you can do your events on a stock MX fuel tank without running out, you’d be fine.
cross country enduro they excel at due to the regen brakes they are better than in a moto which is on average 40 minutes till 20 percent
@@JohnHowerton137 It's right on the borderline for us woods racers. Another 10 miles of range in moderate paced woods riding and i would have ordered one.
Fantastic video Max, Kong has done it again, you answered my questions on weight and engine braking, can you imagine the Stark technology in 10 years time. But you're commitment to 2 strokes is immense, a hero to the 2 stroke world.
Thanks Kevin, To be fair I'm a fan of all dirt bikes, but my soft spot definitely has 2 strokes :)
Electric motors are 3 phase magnetic rotary 2 strokes!
Think I’d miss the gears on jumps the most , meaning you know you need to be full chat in 3rd to clear a double and knock it up to 4th in the air !
Great review 🎉.
I’m personally stoked about the Varg. But, I also do a ton of outlaw riding.
WOW, I'm STUNNED that it was milliseconds difference, i expected Kong to smoke the Stark, but he loves so good on it, i thought it would be a win for the Varg by a lot.
That's a hell of a motorcycle...
As i said in the video i was quite worried watching him ride the Stark lol Thanks for tuning in dude :-D
@@999lazer Was the Stark in full power mode ?
@@hillbillyacoustics6547he said in the video he thinks 50-55 hp mode. They go up to 80 😮
@@davidawaters So how was it a genuine test, you can't handicap one of a two horse race, that makes no sense.
@@hillbillyacoustics6547 clearly not a genuine test. They claim its harder to drive with the extra 30hp. This could be true or or may be the design has work to do. But its a stock ev against a heavily modified two strock with 1/3 the power turned down. So put on full power and dont use full throttle or learn to ride it better and it clearly would have won.
"Dancing your favorite song without the music"...well said! =)
So wat I got from this video: The Stark Varg is a bike that you can ride without breaking you, focus on thechnique, and have fun. I will forever keep m KTM SX300 Two Stroke, but this bike has definitely won a place in my garage and our sport.
Crazy, that I can put my wife at 10hp and the whole family can enjoy as well.
Thanks for this showdown! With the Stark being universally acclaimed as the FDBOTP it's great to see that a proper modern 500 2t is a legit weapon. Time for the Open Class!
Thanks for watching John! In the right hands i think a modern 500 like this would be hard to beat :-D
@@999lazerand in the right hands with the power not restricted like you did here the varg would have been 5 seconds faster. This was hardly a fair test. That man has only ever ridden engine powered bikes and couldn’t get the full potential out of it.
did you cover the difference in price and weight?
Still very early days for electric bikes. They’ll get lighter and cheaper and faster. Even this one they had to restrict and ride it on medium so wasn’t a fair test. At full power the ebike would have easily smoked the 500
Great production value
thankyou
Epic compare test and totally fair too for both 👌
I'm sure if he had more time on the Varg, he could get at least a half second faster and take the win. Crazy how close it was considering he's never ridden one before.
@@Tazdeviloo7 at least that test tell us they are definetly same Page or level i say 50/50
@@villesorjonen5779I'd say it's very close for pro level riders since they're near perfection anyway, but as you go down the scale to c-level riders, it's a big difference in speed since it's easier to ride. You can focus more on going fast vs shifting and clutching right. Rear brake on the handlebar has better feel too and your feet position doesn't matter so much anymore.
I did my first hare scramble on an Ultra Bee and rode past so many stalled riders 😂, it's kinda cheating in the tech stuff for c-riders like me.
That Stark is real beast, love it. Kong still remains king of memories of the 500 days.
Lets get the Stark dialled up to 80 please. 🙏
😳🤣🤣🤣
Who's got time to charge a battery? Time out, time out I have to stop in the middle of the race to charge my battery. We will finish tomorrow. 😅😅😅😅
it's no different from electric cars or high speed (fiber optic) internet service. they need to build out the infrastructure for charging stations. a big problem with the varg is that its battery isn't swappable. ktm makes an ebike in the surron class with a swappable battery. realistically, I think a serious MX ebike might need to have swappable power supplies that can last 40+ mins under the constant use that a pro rider would put on it in rough conditions. we're not there yet, but we're also not very far from it. it's definitely in sight...
I totally agree that change could be in sight for a lot of the sport if we had the infrastructure at tracks for easy and quick charging, but that's going to be some investment from a lot of tracks that are already struggling. Maybe if Stark helped certain locations or race tracks with charging facilities? like you see the Tesla super chargers at certain service stations... but i do think that top level racing will remain as it is for a while yet. Thanks for watching guys!
@daneg lmfao you really want to kill Motocross ans Supercross don't you. Think about you reply.
@@dennismillus4581 no. I quite enjoy motocross and supercross. perhaps you could explain how/why you think I want to destroy it?
I don't know how I feel about this... even though electric WILL SOON outperform internal combustion there's just something that doesn't feel right about an electric dirt bike. No shifting, just acceleration & braking. It has no soul. Even if it is easier to ride it just doesn't seem right. I'm curious about the weight of the Stark Varg. Is it significantly heavier than a comparable dirt bike as electric & gas models made in both electric & gas?
This is going to make MX much more dangerous. Riders rely on the sound of other riders' bikes to be aware of their proximity. I can only imagine what it's going to be like when riders cannot hear each other coming anymore. Riders also rely on hearing their rev to know how they need to manipulate the throttle and accelerate. I can only guess how crazy of a learning curve that is. Riders are in love with the sound of our bikes, especially 2-stroke riders. BTW... your drone pilot is really talented. He does good work.
I grew up in a racing family, cars and bikes. Father and grandfather had a garage, dad was a successful professional race car builder and driver. I went to all types of AMA racing with my racing buddies when younger and still ride. I appreciate a well tuned engine sound. However, maybe because I'm older I find that the noise riding on my motorcycle wears me out. I also don't like hearing cars and bikes miles away when I'm out in nature, I like the quiet. Got an EV car 5 years ago and will never go back to ICE, and do not miss the noise. There is nothing like the instant response of the electric motors. With battery energy density we are likely still 5 years away from truly competitive motos from a range and weight perspective, but from a power, simplicity, maintenance, and environmental standpoint the EVs are superior. Do I miss the noise, or the smell, or vibration, not really. I think it's what we are used to. The pro rider said the Varg felt weird, which is the adjective we usually use when we are not used to something. If he rode the Varg for a month exclusively, then came back to Kong, I think this would be a very different review, so maybe try that next?
exactly ... ive seen pro motocross world champions practice on the Varg for a number of days learn to ride it properly and they are incredibly fast. 15 minute practice was a well planned joke
I was there on my Varg that day too. You're pretty spot on about it with the battery, and the front end tucking. I went to an open practice this weekend and rode 30 minutes & it went from 97% to 25%, spent the next hour charging it! I think if you're racing AMCA or ACU and the races are 15 minutes its almost perfect as you have an hour or so inbetween races, but holy moly the battery drains faster than I thought it would. Engine braking between 20-40% seems better to me if you ever try it again, it feels more like a 2-stroke and stops the strange feeling in the air where the nose dives. Great video again, keep up the good work.
Thanks for watching:) Interesting to know you're getting the same results we had.
I'm curious what's the solution to charging 30 bikes in the pits? Each one requires 240Vac to charge quickly, amps stacking up with each bike charging.. To charge 6 of these things you're going to need a huge transformer or small substation, dedicated service, not going to be cheap. That's an industrial load placed on the grid.. Our grid is basically fossil fuel powered with a few minor exceptions that required enormous amounts of fossil fuel. For each watt pulled off the grid, coal or other fossil fuel is burned at the other end.
On a positive note, if you tip it on it side after 10 minutes of ripping deep soil, sand or mud, you should be able to cook some waffles on those huge breakfast griddles.
@@Dat_Sun I use a generator right now, its not too loud facing away from everything & does about 1% per 1 minute charge so its not too bad. Also the battery has never got above luke warm temperature, even at full race pace. Its a pretty well designed thing. Though I understand the trade off that electric still uses fossil fuels, regular petrol engines aint going anywhere any time soon for sure.
@Dat_Sun use a power bank to charge your bike. silent and lightweight.
if you have solar powered set up at home you can charge your powerbank for free
@@TSM_BreaK I am curious, what generator and I'm assuming 240?
I've replaced all my air tools and most of my gas yard tools with DeWalt battery tools. But even if DeWalt made a faster motorcycle, some things are about more than torque and speed. I'll keep my 2 stroke.
i also have to wonder. if u gave stark varg the full 80 hp will u get a better time? idk i dont ride but will that make a difference. also ive been watching stark varg for alittle now and i have to get one.
You should have added the age old noise enhancer that we all do as kids... Put a baseball card in the spokes of the stark😂
One thing to keep in mind also is that the Stark is bone stock, where Kong is not something that many could build, or afford to build. I love my 2 strokes, but I also love the idea of not needing to get a bike then pour money instead of gas into it to make it sing.
well, the Stark is nowhere cheap as well... but Kong is more expensive for sure
interestingly Kong using the donor bike (a 2018 husqvarna TE300) plus the BRC 500 kit ends up a similar price to the 80 bhp Stark. Thanks for watching.
@@999lazer exactly what I said. This is not something the "average" rider is capable of.
That said, I'd love to have both of these bikes in my garage. -)
@@jeliman13 No bikes are cheap anymore. If 80cc bikes cost near what they do today I would have never been able to start riding when I was a kid. While I would love for my kids to have also gotten into riding, I just can't imagine what it would cost to get bikes, gear, and other costs required to have my kids ride with me.
The days of kids using summer job money to buy a new MX bike for the season are long gone. I know I sound like an old man complaining about the cost of a jug of milk, but...
When I go to the track and see a family pull in with a trailer hauling at least one new bike per kid and parent, and then nothice that each bike has every farkle possible bolted on, I do feel happy with my 2009 RM250 putting in some laps.
smoker for the win💨💨💨
Top test! Great drone flying! Suggestion: When you're filming an electric bike from a drone, can you get a drone with a 2T motor in it please🤣🤣🤣🤟
haha great idea Guy :)
Everybody wants to Argue About Everything. Fascinating
Stark Varg! Listen, that 500cc 2 stroke sounds amazing, looks amazing, I love it... but... I've been obsessed with the Stark Varg, firstly, its from my corner of the world... so kinda proud of that, especially since everyone that get their hands on one rave about it, pro riders and amateurs alike... but also.. its just clear that they have smacked it out of the park! And as people have said all along, this will open up the ability to have tracks anywhere. You could walk around in a park in the middle of a city and have people on motorcross bikes fly over you and barely notice them! And it might only do 1 - 2 hours now on battery depending on how fast you are, if I was riding it I could probably get 3 - 4 hour out of it... since I'd be at 10 hp mode and crying for my mommy...
In 3-5 years this same bike will probably do 2+ hours at race pace without much of an issue. Already seen people do 75 minutes at pace with them now... Someone like me has to go off the track after 10 minutes and take a nap so.... yeah, excited af about this bike! Dont know of any other electric bike on the market that can touch this! And it probably dust any gas bike out there as well...
Thanks for watching. All valid points in your comment too :)
A timex digital watch is probably better than a mechanical rolex, but I'd rather have analog mechanical art over a soul less digital electric thing. I'd rather harness the power of explosions and turn it into forward momentum.
Haha I love that, harnessing the power of explosions! Thanks for watching Jeffa
Why stop at two stroke? Purists should be pinning for steam power "choo choo!". You may like noise but with 30 more hp how long will you tell yourself you prefer two stroke when you are constantly eating the quite bikes dirt.
Without the music... brilliant Sean
The simple fact that the stark kept up to the 500 and have virtually identical lap times, is seriously impressive.
2 stroke baby ❤
Riders have been on gas bikes forever! How much better would he be after a month of just riding electric bikes! Readjusting his style and understanding the power delivery! The results may change! Its scary how good these electric bikes are with just minimal time compared to gas bikes. 🤔🤔
Not using a clutch, no gear change!! And so many bag people who use auto clutches..
Thanks
How more often will you ride and how many more places could you ride if noise wasn't an issue?
Regardless 2 stroke will always be the king..
of sound
Look man, i love my 2 strokes, but they're only good for woods/enduro. There hasn't been a competitive 2 stroke in MX since 2006.
500cc all day long. The electric bike will just burst into flames trying to keep up for a full moto.
Hope you enjoyed watching Dennis! :-D
Will it catch fire? the same thing will happen with the 500cc if you keep the acceleration at maximum for a long time, the engine will heat up, and it is dangerous to explode
I relate these bikes to rc racing, grab multiple sets of batteries and have fresh batteries charged and ready. I look forward to the future of electric mx
magine dancing your favorite song without the music .... at the end of the video he says all and something else. 👋👋👋👋
10.27.23 Kong 1.52.22 Varg 1.52.57. Very close in lap times. I think if spent more time on the Varg getting the suspension set up better the Varg would be faster. Great video.
To be fair though, you need a test rider who owns a Stark and that then fully takes advantage of the benefits and would use more power, not less than the 2smoker. What petrol bike do you detune to ride faster, LOL. And no mention of 2strk rebuilds, petrol stations, smells, leaks, fast electric can be played over etc.
What bike? Try mine. 2003 KTM we 250SX 2T. It's got the Pit Beirer Grand Prix engine clone. It was FASTER than KTM's own 450F of the same year 😲🫣😦💯🏁💯
Even McGrath only added a Pro circuit pipe and silencer to race at the highest levels. It was factory bike fast, too much for most riders. And Dan Salamone, North East KTM rep., told me they detuned it a bit from the factory. 🤯😳😧 I mean, what kind of MONSTER engine were they gonna sell us?
A couple playing cards and clothes pins might help with the sound problem. LOL
Be an awesome supermoto with that torque
What year is that KONG 500? Are these available to buy anywhere?
To be honest if the stark was 100% full and you didn’t let him out for 15 mins before like you said he would have smashed that time and if you had dared to use map 5 80bhp! your 500 2 banger would have been standing still have to be fair you fully rigged that to win 😅 could see the look on your face at the end of the vid when the rider was loving the stark varg just a matter of time for the battery tech to catch up your never hear a 2 or 4 banger again a shame but very true ps I love gas bikes it’s just the future is the future.
this
For everybody who thinks this was unfair... We need to understand that max power figure is not everything in motocross! For many riders it's perhaps 40...50 hp, what they can use. Even starting from the gate with more than that power needs hell of a lot skill. Power characteristics are likewise meaningful. So, 80 hp could as well be WORSE than 55 fo many. At least I could not make use of that much.
For those who think that electrical bikes have no soul; I learned to dabble with fuel engines at a young age, and I got to feel competent among my friends. I loved the feeling of adrenaline that rushed through my veins when I started the engine, the power and noise and changing gears. Now I like to ride my 45-year-old classic Husky a few times a year, and then I am young again.
But life must go on. let's understand that sticking stubbornly to petrol bikes would probably limit the opportunities for motocross. Noise is already limiting it .
It's for sure new generations will find soul in new things. We fossiles should not stop progress.
Floyd Sweets 223.7 KW (300 hp) vacuum energy triode and the size of a book to power the Vargs motor. His device tapped aetheric ZPE or quantum vacuum energy!
really cool bike, but i think they'll only really take off when interchangable batteries become a thing
and affordable interchangeable batteries at that. Stark says the battery pack is the most expensive part of the whole thing which makes a quick-swap battery cost prohibitive at the moment. It'll be interesting to see what Honda comes up with in their CRF-E.
We need Mr. Fusion so we can power them from banana skins!
@@mandrakejake scientists take note, I want a banana powered bike/car
I loved it being quiet iv had mx tracks at home and so glad to not hear complaints all the time
Was the best bike I've been on hands down but hand brake better like a clutch and brake
I wonder what the voltage is that the battery is setup for. The site says 6.5kWh, but curious what the amps/volts are.
its a 400V system
The reality is.. the Stark is $14k US for 35 minutes at race pace… a spare battery, which cannot be easily and quickly changed at the track is…… $7k US… you’ll need a 220v residential hook up… take a close look at the complete lack of attention to detail during assembly.. and to all this arm chair warriors screaming ‘ it’s got 80 horsepower”… the AMA pro bikes are @60 hp… but like all other EV dirt bike start ups, Stark will be cast upon the dead pile within 3 years… bet me..?
As for the “future” of motocross… never gonna happen. Spectators will not show up at AMA Moto/SuperCross events to watch sewing machines circulating the tracks… that is of course if Monster Energy, the title sponsor wishes for a Bud Light moment and slit its corporate throat by marketing EV racing as its premier event.. a support class… maybe. Don’t believe me, take a good hard look at Formula E….10 years later it’s still a farse…
I love watching the E bikes at SX. Actually prefer it as I don’t have to have my kids in earmuffs and can actually talk about the race during the race. A lot of racers wear ear plugs to block out the noise currently anyways. For those that are really wrapped around the axle for noise only you can make them sound like whatever you want. Formula E isn’t even remotely a good comparison.
uh...35 mins at race pace in the hands of a professional. your typical C/B and Vet rider are getting double that. track conditions are also a major factor though. as of right now, I'm not confident you could get 35 mins at a sand track like southwick or (worse) lommel in the hands of a pro. until stark cracks that nut, the machines will never be race ready for serious competition. but they're close, and I think it's will ineveitably happen. Honda is set to race their ebike in the Japan series next year, iirc.
@@daneg There was actually a B rider that ran both B an 25+ classes. Had plenty of charge and time in between motos to stay topped off. Most all of the silly comments revolve around politics, sound, generators, or all kinds of other irrelevant stuff. Mostly from the uninformed too that don’t even understand the huge growth for the sport.
Nothing beats the 2 stroke’s sound 🤟🏼 But I still want the Varg ❤
I love my 2 strokes AND my Varg! Never noticed a battery drop before 20% though
Can't imagine you would. If it's anything like EV cars they run essentially the same until 20%.
What’s that Kong build worth compared to the cost of a varg alpha?
Imagine stand LIVE at MXGP...... TOTALLY quiet.......lame
Don’t know about Europe but the race fuel in US for 4 strokes smell terrible and they don’t sound that greatly either. 2 strokes smell and sound so good. The electrics have the best learning curve for beginners with the endless power tunability. I agree they are not exciting though
I have been writing this comment everywhere. What I think the Stark might do is force the MX world into some actual bike innovation. I am very certain that having the both brakes on the handlebar mountainbike style is far superior, it will allow riders to go even deeper on perfect technique and riding.
However, that is also absolutely possible on a combustion engine. there is a myriad of ways one could make an automatic mx bike competitive.
Thanks for watching Peter. The stark will definitely drive innovation in dirt bikes even if electric motors aren't here to stay.
Noise and the so called green movement are our biggest enemies, the Stark wins in that department.
I doubt very much that an automatic mx would take off. It has been tried in the past and it never worked. Smaller capacity bikes, even 250f are so heavily dependant on clutch modulation when riding at a decent level. Even more so at an elite level.
Even the recluse clutch hasn’t taken off in mx
@@mozer30 when exactly has automatic been tried in MX? And you do know that depending on the system one would go for for automation you'd either not need the clutching because you are always at power max of the engine, or you could simply program a little trigger that you could operate from the handlebars.
I would consider myself quite knowledgeable in the history of MX innovation but I haven't heard of any serious attempts yet.
@@hillbillyacoustics6547 Dirt bikes don't have to be noisy, people put noisy exhaust on them. For example a te150I which is full size bike is extremely quiet for such a powerful and capable bike.
Be wuicker on the stark when you get used to no clutch or turn it up too full power 👍
The dirt on that track looks really soft. They seem to do a good job with track maintenance and prep.
elect bikes cant handle heat or go long distances like a gas bike
Electric bike owner: the cold is your biggest enemy , half the battery life/range on a frosty morning.
Absolutely wrong.. The stark is liquid cooled like any other bike, and the distance depends on how hard you right.. Just like any other bike
Nice camera work. Problems I see with electric bike. $7,500 replacement battery pack with an expiration date. Once "expired" bike is worthless.
The advertised specifications do not match up with the battery size at all. The advised hp is not certified, it's manufacturer claimed.
It's easy to exaggerate electric motor power ratings, and the battery industry is in it's Wild West days of advertising impossible performance and capacity claims.
What is the point of this bike again? There are no 120 or 240Vac charging pines here in Colorado, maybe you guys have them? I'm assuming most are going to be using a pair of gasoline generators with a parallel connector for charging at the track and trail, using more fuel than a ktm 300 at the end of the day.
For the cost, you could buy a proper Japanese or ktm brand bike and convert it to electric with a much larger battery and motor.
Lastly, weight.
good point. what is the decay on these batteries? if you buy this bike now, what happens 5 years from now when the same model has a battery that lasts 3x longer? are you just screwed and have to buy a new bike? then again, 5 years is a very long time in 2T lifetime. maybe not so much in the modern 4T days though.
And yet this bike set to medium power got within 1/3 of a second of a heavily modified 500cc bike by a rider with what 1/2 an hours ptactice? Yes there are many issues to overcome but prentending they are no where near is clearly nonsense.
@@cameronlapworth2284 And I could make a video of my Datsun 620 out running my zx-14.
@@Dat_Sun thats nice.
It’s hilarious that people keep saying “lack of maintenance” as a benefit. Tires, chains, sprockets, suspension and chassis components have been 90% or more of the maintenance on any of my bikes owned since the early 2000’s. An electric bike still has all of those components, plus a bunch more electronics….😂
ah pistons rings valves and the like is what is different
I wonder how mx bikes would go with two 40hp hub motors? 2 wheel drive? Lower Cg?
EV's are shit. I will never buy or support them. Kong is king!
Then you 💯 don’t support the growth of the sport 🤦🏻♂🤦🏻♂There are many riders in the sport today solely because of them.
no noise no smell no thanks.
Agreed, I have a Honda cr85 that is the best sounding/smelling bike I have ever seen.
No clutch no gears no deal
No vibration , no clutch and gears to mess with . No radiators to leak and damage . No air filters and oil changes , just riding. Sounds good to me
You are absolutely right I agree 2,000 percent
@@fullnoyz7670 why do you want gears ?
How hard is it to replace the battery? Install a new battery between motos??
I was told by owner that you can`t replace the battery your self . Don`t know if its true.
So….a couple more days on the Stark, and the lap times will be well below the 500. Interesting.
500 all day. If you've never ridden on a track or blasted through the desert on a KX 500 I highly recommend you do both. If you only have a CR 500 that'll sorta work OK.
I also think lithium you get bored quite quickly. But that 2 stroke ronnie mac goon riding just puts a smile to my face and it pushes you to ride harder
full torque at 1 rpm all the way up is not boring electric cars off the line are rapid too because of this. neck snapping fun
a whole new generation is going to brought up on bikes that have 80-100 hp. The skillset they will develop to put that HP to the ground will make current MX look like the stuff from the 70's compared to today
At 11:15, the charge setting isn't necessarily about cell balancing, cells will be balanced whether on high charge or low charge. A low charge may help a little indeed, not even sure it will influence a lot the cell balancing. The slow charge is however more gentle on the battery itself, reducing stress and heat therefore reducing capacity loss over time.
The drone guy mentionned this since for drones the batteries are either 4s or 6s (4 or 6 cells in series), thechnology is Lithium Polymer much less stable than the Li-Ion as used by the Stark Varg, the balancing for the small drone batteries is indeed sometimes an issue when charging fast between two sessions. He also mentionned 4 or 6 batteries, this is not correct, a Varg battery is in a 100S4P configuration: 4 parrallel sets of 100 batteries in series, therefore this is 400 cells that power the VARG. At almost 7k (USD) the battery only, it would be interesting to know the repairability of such battery in case of a cell failure, not sure whether there is any video about that? It may come soon with more and more people riding the Varg.
One other interest of the charge setting is to accommodate the power source used to charge the bike: if it is a generator his capacity might be limited, therefore the need to limit the charge setting to whatever the generator capacity is.