Is Harrenhal Cursed? (ASOIAF History)
Vložit
- čas přidán 22. 05. 2024
- Hello everyone! Today I'm discussing the history of the most cursed location in #asongoficeandfire - Harrenhal.
Be sure to subscribe if you enjoyed this video! What do you think? Is there anything I missed? What do you think of #houseofthedragon so far? More #asoiaf content is on the way!
The poem I read at the beginning is Ozymandias by by Percy Bysshe Shelley. www.poetryfoundation.org/poem...
Thank you all for watching! I'll be back with more theories on Sunday. Character art in this video is by TheMico!
My Twitter: / quinnthegm
00:00 Ozymandias
00:44 Magic and Curses in Westeros
02:04 Harrenhal's History
03:17 The Conquest
04:54 Historical Inspiration
05:49 Harrenhal's Many Owners
06:10 Historic Lords of Harrenhal
07:54 Occupants During ASOIAF
09:36 The Bonifer Rant
10:56 Is Harrenhal Cursed?
11:57 Skepticism
12:55 Geographic Bad Luck
13:58 The Future of Harrenhal
15:35 The Role of Harrenhal
16:14 Conclusion - Zábava
Wherever Hoares go
Wherever horse go
@@jakub_paints6775 wherever Tyreks go
Glidus casually inflicting psychic damage on the ASOIAF community.
I’ll do you one better why ever whores go
@@jakub_paints6775 🏹🚽💀💩
“I wont let you turn Casterly Rock into your whorehouse!”
“Silly father, the Hoares are dead!”
"I was made to suffer my father's japes, I will not suffer yours."
🎶Keep out of Harrenhall🎵and do as you're told🎶stay off The King'sroad 🎵if you want to grow old!😮. 🎵 🤓😎✌🏻🎶
Of all the Lords of Harrenhal, Lord Janos Slynt had the most friends at court. Powerful friends.
I'm not questioning his friends, I'm denying their existence.
And a cousin at horse guards?
Man's daddy was a damn butcher y'all
@@shaddoecrow5872😂😂😂
"Edd, fetch me a block.." kinda statement
"Pattahyer Baelish" lmao was so confused for a second
Im kinda surprised when you brought up the people that died in Harrenhal you didn't bring up the hundreds of riverfolk that died in its construction
No one cares about the small folk
@@il6yr8 this, so much this! if only there was some knight of 7 different kingdoms
Imagine if he was tall, also
More than river folk. Iron born seem fine with kidnapping foreigners and working them to death. stormlanders, hillmen, reachmen crack claw point men and probably a few northmen and dornish where probably worked to death as well.
@@mikeoh6656 Don't get crazy now.
Suppose the Isle of Faces does not want a major castle that close because it could eventually be a threat. Suppose the Isle of Faces has some kind of magical power.
That Claudius parallel is on point. Martin has mentioned in interviews that he is a fan of Robert Graves’ “I, Claudius”
The "Marcus Didius Falco" mysteries by Lindsey Davis also contain some... compelling writing about the same uprising. (Put it this way, GRRM would be proud.)
The fact that you opened with Ozymandius is just insane, my favourite poem
The Hooooare is pregnant!
Tysha Whent wherever Hoares go.
Ackchyually House Lothston losing Harrenhal during the reign of Maekar has something to do with Mad Danelle (another Witch Queen of Harrenhal figure like Alys Rivers). Eustace Osgrey states that Manfred Lothston proved treacherous in the first BF Rebellion and Danelle rides in with Bloodraven and his host of River Lords during the 2nd. If anything, House Lothston were part of Bloodraven's thousand eyes and one. Unless they sided with BF during the 3rd Rebellion, which doesn't seem likely given during their actions in the first 2, House Lothston must have done something else to fall out of favor with the Targs. My guess is something to do with Blood Magic.
The reason Bonifer Hasty supported Renly and then Stannis is because he is from the storm lands and they were his liege lords, and I assume he then cut ties easily because Stannis is a lord of light follower
Yeah, that one was straightforward, though I imagine they kept quiet about their religious zeal when around Stannis
@@j-rey-Stannis also made a bunch of compromises with the storm lords because he needed them. He was even convinced to leave Melisandre behind during the battle of the Blackwater.
He might follow the Lord of light in his own practical way but he isn't a believer by nature and is aware most if not all Strom Lords honor The Seven.
Great video, Quinn.
One slight addition, if I may, though. The Temple of Claudius was destroyed at the start of the Boudiccan uprising against Roman rule, not as a result of the deification of the Emperor. It was the nearest symbol of occupation to the Iceni heartlands. London and St. Albans were also sacked.
Great use of Ozymandias. I always think of Galadriel when I hear it. All shall love me and despair!
Martin: * takes the time to describe the coolest fugging coat of arms ever featuring fire and skulls *
Also Martin: * kills it off in two generations *
The true curse of Harrenhal: it leaves you house poor
How did you get Bryan Cranston for the first bit damn
I live right near Colchester! There is a castle right next to the ruins that was built after they tore down the temple. I think it might've even been a castle that was there before the Romans tore that one down, can't remember. Eitherway, it's always sad visiting the castle, seeing how impressive the models and pictures of the temple looked...then seeing how dull the castle that replaced it looks in comparison. It's typical of history, but still, always feels a shame
I prefer the Sopranos pronunciation of Hoare.
Hoowah.
That castle is cursed. There's something about it. If it were real, I wouldnt want to go anywhere near it. Someone put Aegon up to burning it down. I love the line, "when the sun sets your line ends..." GRRM being GRRM
Add to that all the lives lost while it was being built, 40 years of blood mixed into mortar.
@@bobthepervyuncle Sounds like a cursed castle to me dagw! LOL!. I still woundlnt go into it.
If i were given lordship of Harrenhall the first thing I'd do would be build a nearby villa and live there instead. Then I'd have the outer walls pulled down and the grounds consecrated by the Seven and the towers converted into Westeros' largest Sept.
There's also a curse of infertility (maybe) in Harrenhal. All the Houses who owned it have died out either by violence or by lack of progeny. It may also extend to all those who live in that place. Pretty Pia, a peasant who has lived in Harrenhal her whole life, had been Hoared by half of at least two armies (Stark and Lannister). Aside from the obvious miracle that she escaped STDs as observed by Qyburn, Jaime has noted that she was most likely barren as she never gotten pregnant even after an occupation by two armies. Is this due to the circumstances of simply being born infertile, or a curse?
I think harrenhall will be where the final battle with the dead will be held, the isle of faces and the fact is a place that could support many big armies, could also be a way the curse of the place could be broken
I doubt Bonifer Hasty bedded Rhaella because that would be considered treason wouldn't it? And isn't he one of the people that says that 'Sins may be forgiven, crimes require punishment'.
True, though Martin loves writing hypocrites.
I doubt that Jaime Lannister bedded Cersei because that would be considered incest wouldn't it?
@@raskolnikov7049 And also treason and oathbreaking, surely even the Kingslayer wouldn't do that.
Bro we need books vs series characters comparisons and also your point of view for ending the books since George won't get to finish them, love this and great work buddy❤️
I am now fully Bonifer Hasty pilled. he will lead a faith of the seven breakaway faction of the brotherhood without banners and deliver the riverlands for Danaerys
Starting this video with Ozymandias was quite a nice touch -- bravo!
Indint think Bonifer Hasty would be the father of Rhaegar, remeber that Rhaella was at most 14 years old when Rhaegar was born… she was basically a child bride forced to marry her brother to fufill a prophecy.
Hasty might have been smitten by her, and Rhaella might have been friendly towards him but thats it.
it was a joke, i don’t think Quinn really thinks that Hasty actually is the father of Rhaegar
@@turtleguyfan I'm pretty sure that Bonnifer Hasty actually IS Rhaegar. And also a horse.
That Petyr pronounciation jumpscare
All jokes aside, great video!
Curses, like prophecies can be interpreted so any set of circumstances to "fulfill" them.
Take Larys, for example. Just because he had an agenda, did it deliberately, and used the curse as a cover-up doesn't mean the curse couldn't also have set things in motion.
For example, you could say the curse caused Larys to be born with a club foot which sowed the sees of resentment and jealousy towards his father and brother and leading to what he eventually did.
I hope Harrenhal is were the tide of The Others is finally halted in some massive battle, I love the idea that Harren built it for that purpose.
If it is cursed, the fact that it was probably built using Weirwood likely has something to do with it.
Heck, it doesn't even have to be a magical curse: For all we know, some Children of the Forest sneak around the huge ruins, poisoning/drugging people and setting fires during the night. The place is right next to the gods eye: Perhaps the denizens on the Isle of Faces see every time a new flag comes to stay in Harrenhall, and have developed a routine of screwing with anyone who tries to benefit from a fortress made by breaking the Deal, ans felling their trees.
I'd just like to say I enjoyed this video purely because you mentioned my hometown at 5:10. I had also thought of it when thinking about Harrenhal, you should visit some time.
Harrenhal is kind of like a Poland that doesn’t survive being stuck between large powers.
Nice touch with the intro.
0:00 that poem gives me nightmares I had to study it for English literature as part of an anthology of ~14 other poems. Makes me shudder
gcse english literature anthologies, jesus save us. these americans will never understand
thank u for sharing such talent with us ser
What if BloodRaven is still doing his thing and messing with things in Harrenhal? Maybe he played with the "curse" thing and maneuvered to guide the realm to his liking. There IS a Godswood in Harrenhal and in the Isle of Faces of course, so it seems that the Old Gods are very present there.
Watched this 10 times, good video mate
How? The video came out 6 min ago
The fall of House Qoherys always got to me. A Valyrian noble house, granted Harrenhall by Aegon the Conqueror himself... and the guy's son (or grandson) definitely took advantage of the "Right to the First Night" and fathered who knows how many Bastards.
Yet, when his was... well, "taken out", he didnt ask the Targaryens to legitimize one of his Bastards to continue their House's bloodline. Maybe some of his Dragonseeds ended up on Dragonstone, who knows. Could even have a descendant of his end up riding one of the Dragons gifted out by Rhaenyra.
I always pronounce Petyr as Peter.
This is going to bug me to no end, so I have to mention it. in 60 AD in britan, there were no English, and no England. The Anglo-Saxons, later English, only migrated to Britian starting in about 400 AD. Britain at that time would have been populated by Brythonic Celts and some amount of Gauls who migrated. Also, during 60 AD, was Bouddica's Rebelion, which I feed would have bared a mention.
Do misspellings also bug you to no end?
@@anypercentdeathless obviously not
I always kinda thought the historical parallel for Harren and his Hall was Fulk Nerra III. He was also called Fulk "the black". He lived during 11th century in France. The count D'Anjou, he was one of the first lords to begin building castles in stone, and did so all throughout the Loire valley in France. At the time, the French monarchy was kind of weak as an entity, and no strong king would have allowed Fulk to build so many castles like this. But he supposedly worked thousands to death in the building of these castles, greatly expanding his power in the process.
That’s been my thought as well, especially since the Riverlands are so geographically similar to northern and central France
@@warlordofbritannia Indeed. Also, there's the whole spelling thing. Harren and Nerra.
One thing about all the houses that died out is that they where all relatively new and weak houses that got rewarded Harrenhall after the last big event where the previous upstart living there lost it along with whoever their patron on the throne was losing the throne.
Even if not because of a major war or civil war. In early dinasty building it only needs a relatively short series of inconveniences for a dynasty to fall if it isnt huge ancient and well connected.
The Dynastys that took control of Harrenhal are a great contrast to the great ancient houses that all have 7 billion cousins to take over their castle if the main line suddenly dies out. If your house began only a hundred years it only takes a single battle/fire for them to be entirely iradicated. And if your power and prosperity comes primarily from whatever Ruler put you in charge of Harrenhall be ready to loose it the moment that Rulers grip on power loosens.
as you mentioned the real life influences of Harrenhall, could you mention more of it?
my guess about the Heart Trees is that they might be based on the Jubokko yōkai from Japanese mythology.
Good opening poem.
👍
no mention that harrenhal is named after the castle in beowulf?????
It IS???
@@QuinnTheGM I think I know who's reading Beowulf next!
Chad Roy Dotrice pronunciation
Lovely intro
Thanks Grandmother ❤
Nah, I think Harrenhal is clearly based on Chataue de Coucy a now ruined castle that had that highest donjon (keep) in the Middle Ages that was over 160 feet tall (GRRM just took the one giant tower and turned it into five) as well as being described as being "overbuilt" with stairs and such larger that people of the day would have found normal (just like Harrenhal). In addition it's a main feature of Barbara Tuchman's book "A Distant Mirror" which he's citied as a influence on the series and house Coucy, which for a time rivaled the kings of France in power, died out in the 1300 a bit like the Hoares.
I believe the last battle will be fought in Moat Cailin, there was quite a lot of build up in the first book but nothing has really happen there.
Massively overlooked point here is that the main reason it is purported to be cursed is because it was built with the labour of tens of thousands of enslaved Riverlanders who were often worked to death. It is also where the drama that set off Roberts Rebellion began.
Finally we know where do Hoares go.
Did I just hear "puhtire"?
Calling something the biggest castle in Westeros is really saying something. A CZcamsr who specializes in medieval weapons and castles actually estimated the size of Winterfell from the text. It dwarfs any real world castle to a ridiculous degree.
At first i was wondering whether I clocked on one of schwifty's videos, that man loves his ozymandius
Also, Bonifer Hasty is definitely Rhaegar's father. The only thing more hasty than his name, is his seed
Aegon was nothing without Belarion, the King of the Sky descends on his vassals of earth.
Yes, the whole point of the Targs is that they are so dependent of dragons that they don’t have any other abilities to control the realm, and without firepower they’re nothing
Cry more, both of u lmao🤦😂🤣
@@Valentinianistfrom what i read this is false the targs had a way to control the realm and were just as capable as daeron I showed they just didnt conform
I wish you good fortune in the wars to come
So naturally, Rhaegar chose this as the place to plot out his coup if the theories are accurate.
How could it not be cursed when it was built at the cost of the lives of the Riverlanders
Some legends say that the line of House Hoare produced 69 Kings
It's not abt the curse it's a thing that you give as title to people coming up, cause you can't give a livable castle
They can't settle for that
You shouldn't be so hasty about Bonifer🤷🏼♂️🤓😎✌🏻
Do the people of Westeros think Robert Strong is related to the Larys Strong Strongs?
Maybe Bonifer stayed at bitterbridge and fought for Tywin on the blackwater.
13:13 Didnt Tyrion think that making Littlefinger Lord of Harrenhal was a mistake from his father: once the war was done, this seat would make him one of the most powerful lords in Westeros?
You can't really say Daenerys will focus mainly on KL. She might, due to her lack of experience. However, KL isn't as important as the Reach and Riverlands as those are more strategic in controlling the continent, itself. Control them and you can choke off KL.
Puh-tayer
The Hoooooaaaarrrrreee is pregnant
do we really know lady shells whent die though? I hope she still live.
I don't understand why Harrenhall is so cursed (apart from magic and sheer bad luck) it is in the center of the Seven Kingdoms and at the nexus of many of the land trade routes. It should be rich but somehow it is not
Love the video but gotta work on the Petyr Baelish pronunciation 😅
If the vale army actually does anything Harrenhal will be their first location to pass, lead by the "true" lord of Harrenhal. Definitely don't think it will be safe
I found out couple days ago that in the show they deal with the Others first and then continue doing feudalism. To me that is maybe the dumbest thing the show did. I hope that Dany and her story come before or during the long night
Did Rhaella like Bonifer before she was married? Wasnt she married at like 12? She had Rhaegar at 13- wtf happened?
House Whent went Batty and flew away.
I don't think it is cursed, rather it just can lead to downfalls by increasing people's egos when they get it, like with Qohorys. Or, their doom comes at their own actions like the Whents supporting the targaryens against the Tully's, their own kin, or Harwin getting his whole family killed due to his selfish and reckless fathering of strongs on Rhaenyra, as that is what causes the fire to be set on Harrenhal, and why Aemond later kills the Strongs.
Qoherys died out because of the arrogance and greed of the last male Qoherys, constantly abusing his right to bed any lower mans bride, and didn't think he could be harmed, until he turned the riverland neighbours against him and was captured and killed by Harren the Red.
Harroway was greedy, wanting to have their blood on the throne, so bringing Maegors attention on them and risking everything should she not give birth to a live child, and thus resulting in their doom by the mad and cruel and easily manipulated Maegor.
House Towers got it by a melee and the lord was badly injured so could not sire a son, maybe just not lucky.
House Strong got it's doom by Mr selfish horny Harwin siring 3 bastards on Rhaenrya and passing them off as true targaryen children and heirs to the throne, which led to the fire to remove Rhaenyra's allies in the Strongs and then Aemond targeting Harrenhal and the Strongs in anger at the strong bastards, likely due to Lucerys taking his eye.
House Lothston just was a bit cuckoo and probably discovered some of Alys rivers old crap on magic, and lady lothston decided to try it and probably tried using blood magic to do something like hatch a dragon or make herself immortal.
House Whent chose to fight for Aerys and Rhaegar over their own kin, their own nieces and nephew in the form of the Tully's, and thus lost everything as they spent far too much on the Tourney of Harrenhal, all males died in the war, and thus it was a matter of time before Harrenhal fell.
House Slynt just goes because Janos turned on Lord Stark for more money, proving he was easily bribed, killed a baby and murdered bastard children without even speaking to the hand of the king first, showing how untrustworthy and undeserving he was. Plus he knows nothing of ruling so cannot be given such a prize.
House Baelish has gotten it, but Petyr is about to overplay himself, trying to be lord paramount of riverlands, lord of harrenhal, lord of the Vale, and soon lord of Winterfell by putting Sansa on there as his puppet, and will die by his overambition and arrogance .
We have to establish that curses are even possible before ascribing to a single location that a place is cursed. Statistically, shouldn't we expect one place to have more 'odd' occurrences than other places? Likewise, we'd expect some places to have less odd occurrences and others to have the 'normal rate' of odd occurrences, whatever that is.
Magic clearly exists, but are curses apart of this magical system? How does one become cursed? How does a place become cursed? Can we find other areas that meet these same conditions and also display the same attributes as 'cursed?' This would establish that cursing people or places is legit and the constant characteristics of a curse being established would do well to create legitimacy in the ability for curses to be made real
TRY to become KIng as Stannis in the AGOT mod for CK3, i think You`ll like it.
I plan on doing so as soon as I get a new computer! My current one is old and wouldn’t be able to run it.
Damn Hoares
I take the Poem of Ozymandius as a Prohecy, an actual one. Meerly as statement of inevidability, one day a Man a Human will aspire to his crown.
And in their lust for the Crown of Ozymandius so to do they yern for his Kingdom of Ash and Dust even if only subconsiously. Ozymandius is the one who would rule a kingdom of soot before he saw another sit upon that chair, this is deeply but sadly a Human action. One day, in the mist of time uncounted someone will want that crown that Kingdom that throne and they will be willing to sacrifice all simply to posess it.
Lust, Greed, Envy and Pride are like that no? Ozymandius is a Title to be Earned, one that will stand above every Great and every Terrible before.
Somebody has been watching Succession
I LOVED THIS! Harrenhal i find SO intriguing!😁
At some point in history, the Hoare was pregnant
Tell me more of these glorious Hoares!
You may laugh, but the kings of House Hoare were some of the best rulers the Iron Islands had (although not necessarily good in a moral way). Too bad they're known for one dumb guy at the end of their line.
@@joaomartins9800 I was just making a joke about how that house's name sounds like a synonym for a prostitute.
Harrenhalll is still the largest cast by far.
Harranhall is less of a castle and more of a whole city
Yeah, a LOT of peoples sons and grandsons were going to hold onto the seat with all its rights and properties until the end of time🤷🏼♂️🤓😎✌🏻
Bros before Hoares
Oh Pe-tyre!
Sansa could end with Harrenhal with all her Mad Danelle parallels
If Harrenhal is so cursed, just give it to the Others, then humanity is guaranteed to win
Black hoares
Ozymandias >>>>>
I'm guessing you listen to the audiobooks with how you specified Petyr Baelish's name is pronounced lol, there doesn't seem to be any canonically correct way to say it when you look into it
Pa🛞
8:17 Tywin's death had nothing to do with him holding Harrenhal, he was already in King's Landing.
If this counts as evidence for Harrenhal being cursed then all castles and keeeps are cursed as well, because everyone who ever held them has died
pronounced Peter
So after all that, what you are saying is we'll never see Harrenhal again? Lol.
5:26 "the english" did not exist in 60 AD.