Valonqar: Who will kill Cersei Lannister? (ASOIAF Theory)
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- Who do YOU think is the Valonqar?
Hello everyone! Today I'm going over a number of theories as to who will kill Cersei in #asongoficeandfire.
Be sure to subscribe if you enjoyed this video! What do you think? Is there anything I missed? What do you think of #houseofthedragon so far? More #asoiaf content is on the way!
Thank you all for watching! I'll be back with more theories next week! Character art in this video is by TheMico!
My Twitter: / quinnthegm
00:00 Paranoia and Prophecy
00:47 Maggy the Frog
01:24 The Valonqar
02:21 Tyrion as the Valonqar
03:47 Jaime as the Valonqar
06:29 Tommen as the Valonqar
07:40 Robert Strong as the Valonqar
08:35 Sandor Clegane as the Valonqar
09:29 Osney Kettleblack as the Valonqar
11:06 Victarion Greyjoy as the Valonqar
13:15 Maegor the Cruel as the Valonqar
14:18 My Opinion
14:45 Conclusions - Zábava
I've always favored Jaime to do it, it's too poetic not to happen
Him and Tyrion do it together nobody will see that coming
Ooooooooor Jaime comes back to her and gets crushed by rubbles
-Dumb and dumber appearently
Jamie only have one hand!!!!
@@sanitizerwilson1599There exists a necklace, made of golden hands clasping each other. Tyrion wore it when he was a Hand. I think Jamie will strangle Cercei with that necklace.
@@Sienisota Yes!
-Opens video
-Skips to Victarion segment
-Nods in agreement
-Finishes Victarion segment
-Go back to beginning and watch video in its entirety
this is the way!
It is known
A more sillier theory that still make sense is after losing all her children Cersei would drown her sorrows to death by drinking a wine from Essos branded as "The Valonqar".
A company started by one Tyrion Lannister after he left politics and invested in a career he was truly passionate in
This sounds unhinged from me but I think I would just burst out laughing if that was true
better than a bunch of bricks
Omg! That’s too funny, it can’t be a legit theory, more like a joke or a what if it was something as ironic and stupid as this.
@@eugeneimbangyorteza those bricks were Valonqar bricks!
Brown Ben Plumm is the Valonqar. He leads the Second Sons
Genius 🤯
It is known.
I’d be pretty satisfied with that I think. Plumm is a great character
LMAOOO
Oh shiiiiiiiiit
Why no one is ever considering Loras? He is the youngest brother and if Cersei ends up being responsible for Margaery's death, Loras would absolutely have a massive motive. There is too much of ephasis on him to not give him something big imo.
And there is also his similarity to young Jaime, which is noticed by Jaime himself. The repeat of history with young, idealistical Kingsguard being forced to kill a ruling monster is more appealing to me than Jaime coming back to KL.
Give my boy a break. Killing Cersei would destroy him in some way and he really had enough of this. Just let him go with Brienne and later join the fight agnist Others.
His story is about breaking with her and realizing he is independent person who could do a lot on his own.
This quote that 'they came to the World together so the will leave it together' is also for me NOT foreshadowing, but another lie of Cersei (which he has to overcome) where she manipulates him to stay at her side and DIE FOR HER and it stands in contrast with Brienne who convinces him to LIVE FOR HIMSELF after he lost his hand
I loved how the show did Tommen's death. Adding to that the idea of Cersei bringing him back to life out of desperation, just to be met with a Tommen hellbent on killing his mother, would not only be poetic and fitting, but also reinforcing the canon of undead people having their thoughts frozen forever once they die and ressurect, just like Stoneheart.
I think his death in the show was their last creative decision that I liked and agreed with.
@@QuinnTheGMTormund Giantsbane being gobsmackingly head over heels in love with Brienne was pretty great tbh.
@@Prince_LuciI think it was crazy how she looked down on him (she always appeared disgusted by him) and passed him over in favor of Jaime when Tormund is the first man to appreciate all the things she found ugly about herself…not to say she had to return his affection but because the fans wanted Brienne and Jaime that’s what we got lol
the lingering shot on the window is so tragic. that poor boy.
Victarion also held the Neck when the Greyjoys took the North. Let’s call that foreshadowing.
It being Jaime is so simple and easy, yet elegant that it's almost guarranteed to be true, similar to R+L=J.
Yeah, Tyrion is so insanely obvious that it’s certainly not him, while Tommen and the others are a bit too out there. Jaime is the sweet spot
R+L = J requires a lot of contrivance to work, Rheagar ad Lyanna secretly getting married after a secret annulment, that no-one for nearly 2 decades discovered is hardly simple or elegant. Not saying its not obviously true, just that its pretty far from good writing, especially since being a bastard and how it effects Jons self image is a massive part of his character (personally i think that in the books, it will turn out that Rheagar did rape lyanna, but she was such a gigachad that she love the baby anyway a wanted him protected from robert, which would be Neds promise).
@@tickledeggzI actually hope Jon will turn out to be Ned’s only true born son with Ashara Dayne, simply because I think it would have more of an impact on his character to find out that, after being treated like a freak compared to his siblings because he was a bastard, he was actually the only true born of them. I think that would be better character wise, then him finding out he was some other man’s bastard with an aunt he never knew.
@@spacelia3920Jon looks just like Ned, acts just like Ned, and is thought to be the most likely Azor Ahai figure. Him being a son of the Daynes allows for him to wield Dawn, which would fit nicely with his assumed battle against the night. Literally ending the night as the sword of the morning.
@@Landshark4008 That’s what I hope will happen
Jaime's story ending with him killing his sister ruins the symbolism of him being born with his right hand grasping Cersei's ankle. Once Jaime's right hand is severed, they have a falling out and Jaime seeks to write his own page in the White Book, choosing that as his purpose in life and turning his back on his sister.
Correct. Jaime going back to her, even to kill her, simply justifies Cersei's delusional narcissism. I'm not saying there's no way it will happen, I'm just saying I'll be disappointed if it does. My hope is still that UnTommen becomes the Valonqar.
@@coolcadaver49how tho? Him killing her in the same manner he killed the mad king,to save the realm makes so much sense for both their character's. Untommen just seems a bit extra and random at this point. I mean how would it even work? Would Qyburn just betray Cersei? And no Jamie killing Cersei does not feed into her delusions either lol
@@olofacosta3192Well Qyburn might be working for the Martells so...
No I think it would make a lot of sense if he kills her in a similar way to what he did to the Mad King, because she wants to burn the city to the ground, the severing of ties between them is what would allow this. I don’t feel like it ruins the symbolism at all because he’s literally lost the connection to her with his right hand
No it makes perfect sense
"Gold will be their crowns" leads me to think that all 3 of her kids need to be some sort of ruler at some point. Tomen obviously just took the throne, Myrcella is still in Dorne down an ear. I think this effects Dorne's schemes more than Cercei's death, but it could be a sign her death is soon to come. She is only 10, maybe 11 by the end of Dance so how she gets crowned is up in the air. Maybe Dorne claim her as Paramount of the Stormlands after siding with Aegon.
However it plays out, I love how George laid out profecy in ASOIAF. It makes the reader really think and reflect on every line. LIke some sort of Faustian Bargain or wish from a Genie that backfire. The wording perfectly vague enough to mean so much, but just spesific enough for the characters and readers to connecet the dots.
I always interpreted the "gold will be their crowns" line as them being incest kids. All of them have golden hair because they're Lannister children, not Baratheon children. After all, that's what clued Ned into the idea they were inbred bastards to begin with and kinda helped launch the entire series of events.
But Myrcella getting the throne would be really cool!
@choryllis6646 That does make a lot of sense. I never put together the golden blonde hair to actual gold. Again, this is why I love George's writing. This level of analysis and discussion over half a sentence that's apart of a long prophecy
I think "gold will be their crowns, gold their shrouds" has two meanings: 1- golden lannister hair but golden baratheon banner, showing they're bastards, and 2- all three children will be crowned king/queen in their lives, but will then die with Cersei out-living them all to see their shrouds.
So IMO Myrcella will definitely be crowned queen after Tommen dies, either bc Cersei crowns her right before King's Landing is taken by Aegon (so it doesn't last) or afterwards if/when Cersei and Myrcella escape the city and go back to Casterly Rock (as a competing claim to Aegon's), OR because a sort of peace deal is arranged between the Lannisters in KL and Aegon's forces, with Myrcella the technical queen being married to Aegon to unite their claims peacefully but also effectively neutralise the Lannister claim, with Cersei maybe being sent off to be Lady of Casterly Rock, which is a role she's always wanted but which will completely remove her power and influence in KL (though it also gives Cersei the sweet revenge of having Rhaegar's son marry the Lannister daughter instead of the Martell one, and it'd be the one way that the "younger more beautiful queen" thing could come true in a way where Cersei briefly thinks it's not as bad as she thought, since that queen is her own daughter).
Myrcella will then die when Aegon is defeated by Euron/Dany. It might be even more interesting if Cersei, unhappy with even her fairly fortunate circumstances as Lady of CR, decides to throw in with Euron to remove Aegon from power and inadvertently causes Myrcella's death.
If Tommen dies while Cersei is still Regent, she would *have* to declare Myrcella queen, even if she was still a hostage of the Dornish; it's her only lifeline. The show acted like whatever suitably ruthless person has their foot in the throne room gets to continue ordering people around as long as they like with no opposition (see also Ellaria Sand, aka the Prince of Dorne's dead little brother's unmarried girlfriend); however, in reality Cersei derives her entire legitimacy from being the Queen Mother to Robert's children. If Tommen dies she needs to either crown Myrcella in absentia, flee King's Landing, or most likely both since "Cersei steps aside or else we behead Myrcella" works just as well as a threat whether the girl is queen or not. (This is also why simply killing Myrcella up front is an utterly stupid move - have I already mentioned that the show's Dorne plot is bullshit?)
I stan unTommen, it's the most horrifying possible end for Cersei. Her one redeeming characteristic is her protectiveness of her children, so to be strangled to death by her little boy would be really awful for her. Also, you've mentioned a couple times that Euron seduced Victarion's wife. I always thought the text said that Euron raped her, which made me hate Victarion more than any other character in the books and long for him to die slowly and painfully.
There is a character you did not consider. In Valyrian male and female are sometimes the same word. Little brother could be little sister.
It could be Myrcella, the younger, prettier queen who casts down her mother and chokes her to death.
I guess if you don't mind your queens having a scar across their face, they're technically still pretty.
@@renaigh Beauty can describe personality over looks, and some scars can look cute but most of all it just requires them to be MORE pretty than Cersie who may have her own scars by that point.
I'd agree if not for the prophecy describing Cersei's children as all having golden shrouds, meaning Myrcella will likely die while Cersei lives since nobody else vying for the throne would give Myrcella that honour (especially when Stannis knows she's a bastard, and Aegon is likely to want her dead to avoid the fight for the throne.
That said, I've thought of the little sister option being possible. My thoughts have been on one of the Stark girls doing it, since they're both little sisters to Robb
@@Beth-zs2jr It could be that Dorne makes Cersie think Myr is dead, they have a golden shroud for her etc and then Myrc reappears later. Another thing is to point out they all have golden crowns, yet the crown skipped Myrcella, which cause a bit of a problem in the prophecy.
All I am saying is it is possible, also the stark girls are also possible specifically Sansa strongly enough given that Sandor called her little bird.
Yeah, exactly! Why did Martin extra make up a Valyrian word for the prophecy that can mean both, brother and sister, if he just meant the little brother?
Another possibility for Tommen being the Valonquar (though I don't think he's the strongest contendent) is that Tommen could "wrap his hands around her neck" by ordering his new Hand of the King to do so, metaphorically fulfilling the statement. I could see this happening if some of the intense manipulation of Tommen that happened in the show was a plot point borrowed from Martin's plans. For a child like Tommen I could imagine it being a dark moment where he doesn't fully comprehend the nature of his actions of the finality of death, but also, he's like 8. The possibility of him ordering his Hand to kill his mother is extremely low
Good one
I like to believe that Jaime is also the "younger and more beautiful" person in the prophecy. "Till comes another" does not necessarily mean "another queen."
Brienne the Beauty
@@sanitizerwilson1599that was my thought - brienne “replaces” cersei in jaime’s narrative
@@carmina-solis my thought too
She could drown in tears if she was poisoned with the Tears of Lys (which mimic strangulation). Thoughts anyone?
Good point
I've always felt it was going to be Jaime. It's simple and poetic, much like R+L=J. And GRRM has said multiple times that he peppers in hints over the books and if you pick up on them, then he's doing his job right. And that you don't just change the twist just because people figured it out. (It's one thing I admire him for. He sticks to his guns in that respect.) Also, for Jaime, it would be a way of finally freeing himself from his old life, imo. I don't necessarily think they'll die together, more by killing her, he kills that part of himself? (I do also like the theory that the younger, more beautiful woman to strike her down could be Brienne. Obv that doesn't work because she's not a queen, but I do find it almost poetic in that she's called Brienne the Beauty and she's had half her face chewed off, but she sees Jaime as a whole person and so would 'take' all Cersei holds dear -shrugs-)
brienne's heritage may include targaryen blood, which wouldnt put her too far off the line of succession.
R+L=J is far from simple, it only seems that way because it’s been the popular theory for like 10+ years and the show outright confirmed it. The seemingly obvious answer was Ashara Dayne, Wylla was a clear red herring, and as far as we knew Ned really was Jon’s biological father.
I also feel like Jaime makes sense in the same vein as R+L=J. Like Cersei completely overlooking him, Jaime loosing a hand and Tyrion’s festering hatred and history of strangulation are all ways to distract, like Ashara and Wylla in the R+L=J theory. I think Jaime murdering Cersei would also hurt her the most out of anyone and would be the least likely person she would suspect. I also think the line in the prophecy about her children having golden crowns could also refer to their hair colour which also hints at Jaime being their father which puts him in the prophecy.
But it doesn't have to be a queen. "Queen _you_ [italics mine] shall be . . . until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all you hold dear." Another doesn't necessarily mean another queen.
Not to be that guy here but idt r+l=j. If u look at the timeline it doesn’t work at all. N+a=j and r+l=a (f)aegon. But Jaime is the valonqar
GREAT video, minus the Aemon the Dragon Knight dying for his sister, he died defending his brother Aegon the Unworthy, not Naerys, two dudes from House Toyne were attempting to assassinate Aegon for sentencing their brother Terrence Toyne, a knight of the kingsguard who was caught sleeping with Aegon's mistress.
I like the twin targ theory, cause it means Dany can be the valenquar, also the younger more beautiful has to be briene the beauty.
The Valonqar has always been a pile of bricks case closed!😂
Masons that Maegor murdered belonged to Valonqar Construction Company. Boom! Deep foreshadowing. You have to read the world book also for everything. 🤣
It’s possible GRRM is going for the double bluff. Circi thinks it’s Tyrion but only in the last quarter of Dream Of Spring does she have the realisation it’s Jaimie and then George catches us all out and it’s Tommen or Victarion. It has a certain charm because Circi is hilariously wrong until the very last, even when we the reader finally think she’s right for once.
Agree it's probably Jaimie. I think the chronology will go like this: Ser Robert makes mince meat out of Ser Theodan/Lancel. Cersei then regains power as regent as Ser Kevan and Pycelle are dead. Jaime shows back up at Kingslanding and she makes him her hand/gives him the necklace. Meanwhile Aegon et al are marching on Kingslanding unopposed. Everything that's happened so far and the death of Tommen and Myrcella during the books drives Cersei insane and she basically becomes Aerys planning to do a Wildfire Plot Reloaded. Jaimie strangles her to save the city (once again).
This also sets up the ending of Winds with Danny showing up on her dragon right after Aegon has been crowned with Arrianne as his queen in a giant cliff hanger for the last chapter. And the epilogue is Dolorous Ed witnesses the Others breaching the wall and dies in the epilogue (note the exchange of Jon: We defend the wall to the last man. Ed: Probably me.)
There I finished it for you George! IT WASN'T THAT HARD!
My heart definitely wants Tyrion to be the valonqar; but my head tells me Jaime is more likely. That said, allowing for gender translation discrepancies, my dark horse candidate is Catelyn. In ACOK-Catelyn V, she tells Brienne that she dreams of "riding to King's Landing and wrapping my hands around Cersei Lannister's white throat and squeezing until her face turns black".
That's practically identical verbiage to the prophecy, so it's always stuck out to me. Also, we know Lady Stoneheart hangs her enemies; hanging causes strangulation; so that's another way Catelyn's musing could come to pass. I don't think this could happen so long as Cersei is in King's Landing; but if she were to pull a Rhaenyra and flee when the city falls (as some predict she might), possibly back to Casterly Rock, I could see Cersei falling into the Stoneheart's clutches along the way. Promise made, promise kept lol.
There's no evidence for this, but I would also love if Gendry killed Cersei as vengeance for her killing his father and attempting to kill him. Cersei has done so many terrible things that Robert's murder gets overlooked; so it'd be cool if that's the thing which came back to bite her in the end.
I think Catelyn is the eldest child though.
it would be interesting if Bran wargs into Jaime who ends up offing Cersei; a double Valonqar theory.
Don’t forget that there is a poison called the strangler that stannis’s maester tried to use to kill melisandre. Perhaps Arya will get her revenge by poisoning her wine cup and then Jaime and Cersei both drink
It's also what killed Joffrey. There's also a poison called the Tears of Lys, & it's kind of interesting that the prophecy hints towards two different poisons, albeit very tangentially.
Didn't Maester Aemon say that Valarian is not gender-specific? That the Valarian word for "prince" also means "princess"? Thus "little brother" could also mean "little sister," which in both cases could possibly point to Dany as she is the youngest sibling, and is in a justified position to kill Cersei. Going off of the "little sister" interpretation could also refer to Arya, as while we don't see Cersei's POV when Sansa is the presumed future "Queen Baratheon," she is described as beautiful in the books, and Cersei does seem to treat her more like a rival than a future daughter-in-law to be welcomed into the fold and protected after the loss of her family, and this behavior didn't stop until the Tyrell marriage alliance come to be. And let's not forget Cersei's needless killing of Sansa's wolf, Lady, highly suggesting that Cersei originally believed Sansa was the foretold "younger and more beautiful queen" that would replace her. Arya is "the little sister" to Sansa, and "the little sister" whom Cersei was trying to find and capture in ACoK, and now Arya is acquiring the means and has the motivation to kill Cersei, and thus far seems to be 50-50 one whether her hitlist is killed by her (Raf the Sweetling) or someone else (Joffrey). While considering the Starks, there is also, of course, Bran, who may have a memory relapse, and there may be some warging involved, really the possibilities are endless in regards to Bran.
I don't hold any of these as "the definitive" fulfillment, but I do feel that they are stronger possibilities than Gregor Clegane or the Kettleblacks.
small issue, Dany has nothing to do with Cersei.
@renaigh They are both women who claim the Iron Throne. Yes technically Tommen is ruler, but Cerseu has run everything since Robert's death, and her POV clearly shows that she would take the throne if the powers that be would permit a woman seat it... which is exact issue Dany will also face. Unless Cersei is deposed by the Faith, Tyrells, or Aegon, there will be a Queen v. Queen showdown between Danyris, the beloved queen, and Cersei, the despised pretender.
@@renaighnless you got with that theory of Cersei and Jamie are Targaryen through their "father's" side. Although it doesn't make sense due to the timeline not adding up
@@ChildOfTheFlowerit might not have to mean Cersei’s younger sibling but simply just someone who is a younger sibling. Dany is the younger sister of Rhaegar and Viserys and could qualify through that means.
Valonqar is just for younger brothers
Jaime being the the Valonqar works best for both Jaime's arc and Cersie's.
Him killing Cersie in a similar situation as he killed Aerys II in order to save King's Landing, has a very poetic touch to it. Because one of the perspective (particularly of Ned Stark's) of him killing Aerys was that he only did so when it was the most convenient for him and after that, he sat on the Throne like a victorious monarch basking in his glory, not giving a care that he just broke his Kingsguard oath. Or that he could've saved Elia Martell and her children from the brutal fate in the meantime instead of posing on the throne (a guilt that later haunts Jaime in his dreams). This lead many people to believe that he only killed Aerys to further implement his father's plan of sweeping up the Targarayens.
But this time he will have to kill his very own sister, whom he once loved very dearly. And he won't sit on the Throne feeling glorious after killing her, but left in anguish and guilt coz he just killed his sister. A sacrifice he had to make in order to save hundreds of thousands of lives. This time no one will question his sincerity of saving people coz nobody would kill his own sister in such situation other than to really save more than half a million people from destruction.
As for the Cersie, she at this point has basically become Aerys II with teats or how Rhaenyra Targarayen had been during her short reign on Iron Throne during the Dance of the Dragons. Full of paranoia, distrust, cruelty, losing power and her allies turned against her. Tommen would probably be dead at this point so Cersie would cease power forcefully in King's Landing but she would've no allies or control. Aegon/YGriff and his army will be marching to take the King's Landing. In a last ditch effort, she will try to pull a Aerys II Targarayen and use the wildfire catches stored in the different places of city (ironically put by Aerys) to burn down everyone and everything with her.
But she will stopped by her brother Jaime, the one person she least expected to be the one to cease her fate. Her twin brother whom she considered the only person to be her equal, the male version of her, finally killing her for good.
5:50 Small correction: The Hand of the King does not have one fixed item that is passed down from one person to another. Instead each Hand creates his own artifact that shows his status. Need used the simple pin, Tyrion had the chain mentioned in the video, Harrys Swift used a cloak.
Stannis (To avenge his brother's cuckoldry and the realm bleeding as a result.)
Jon (If R+L=J is book canon, he's Aegon and Rhaenys' younger brother, as well as for the obvious.)
Benjen (To avenge his brother)
Loras (So that the more beautiful queen, his sister, can take all she holds dear.)
Euron (He's Balon's younger brother and a sadist, and wants the Iron Throne.)
Petyr (because Cat thought of him as a little brother and she may well kill Jaime)
Edmure (Among other reasons , as vengeance against Jaime for threatening his baby.)
Also, how do the members of the brotherhood without banners address each other, other than by name? If they adopt elder and younger brother as titles, say based on seniority, that would subvert my expectations. It may well relate to Cersei being drawn into the Riverlands or the Brotherhood heading to Kingslanding.
Stannis serving justice as the Valonqar is the GOAT of theories. Sadly the most unlikely theory tho
Cersei was born with Jaime holding her ankle but that hand was severed and their relationship forever changed. Like Tyrion is Cersei’s red herring, is it possible Jaime is the reader’s? While I do think they’ll die around the same time, they may not be together when it happens. They would enter and leave this world together, but won’t be together when it happens.
I’m one of the people who initially thought Tommen would kill Cersei because the prophecy’s placement being in the same as her and Robert’s children (it just seems odd to me to group them together). But Tommen is also a child who’s dependent on those around him. Perhaps he will die as he did in the show, but Qyburn revives him and he’s completely changed. Maybe the Faceless Men will steal his face and Cersei will be strangled by someone wearing it. Maybe it will be one of Robert’s bastards. The problem I have with this prophecy is its vagueness; it’s too generic and applicable to too many characters, but Cersei misreading people should be the reason it happens.
I find the Valonquar prophecy not as interesting as the queen who will replace her. It’s easier to think Daenerys, Margaery or Sansa will do this as they are all younger and beautiful, but I don’t think it will be any of them. Brienne seems more likely; she’s strong, honorable and loved by Jaime, all things Tyrion think Cersei is greedy for. She’s in her twenties which makes her younger, but called The Beauty in a mocking fashion (though she is more chivalrous than most knights around her).
My favourite idea for the Valonqar was Kevan Lannister... Until it wasn't...
Another I just thought of is perhaps Trystane/Myrcella, It seems that they have fallen in love and perhaps the manner of Myrcella's inevitable death will inspire Trystane to want to kill Cersei, or maybe Cersei tries to break the betrothal between them and they get desperate.
I say inevitable because the prophecy suggests that Tommen and Myrcella will both die as their brother did, I just wonder how it will happen.
Great video (:
You left off one of my favorite wild theories: That Cersei will get pregnant with a 4th child who is never born as she miscarries while the Others are approaching. An unborn baby wight would then claw its way out of her to strangle her to death.
Top tier video as always. Love the maegor angle
Jaime was seen as the best swordsman in Westeros so it could be that Qyburn wasn’t just trying to bring the Mountain back but instead making a super soldier with the body of a mountain and the sword hand and muscle memory of a lion of the Rock
Hairbrained theory: "The Valonqar," or "the younger brother" might refer to the final son of either the Reigns or the Tarbecks (this assumes Valonqar is not a gender neutral term, thus adding the possibility of a female, but this theory assumes a male). A Reign makes the most sense because of the Reign's of Castimire plays such a central part in the narrative of the Lannisters. It would be greatly symbolic if this younger brother manages to kill Cercei, symbolically getting revenge by ending Tywin's line.
This would have to be a second or third son who was away from home when Tywin took revenge on the family. Likely it is a son who saw no chance of inheriting and so gave up their family name and took a new position. A septon, Maester, or Night's Watchman makes the most sense, but as watch members don't usually give up their names, and the westermen see the watch as a place for criminals, it can't be that. So a Maester or Septon then.
For this to work in a way which makes sense in the narrative the character has to already be in place by the time the events of Feast/Dance. So the last Reign has to have been hiding in the background of the Kings Landing plot-line for some time. They must be in Cercei's orbit and semi-important to her story. They must be; not as old as Tywin, yet older than Cercei and Jamie. The person's family name has to be unknown or false. While there quite a few people who might fit the bill, I believe there are only two candidates who make the most sense. The High Sparrow and Qyburn make the most logical choices.
The High Sparrow being adversarial to Cercei makes him the less interesting choice and possibly too obvious. Besides she was already in his clutches and he let her go. Though choking her out, in front of many witnesses at her trial might be fitting given the ubiquity of the Reign's of Castimire song, I think he is going to have to die before Tommen does and thus can't kill her after he dies.
I think Qyburn is the more interesting choice anyway. I mean, he had to be a somebody to get into the citadel, right? He is of questionable morals. Importantly, he is involved in Cercei's story by her own choice. She seems to trust him even though all evidence points to the fact that he is untrustworthy. Piecelle doesn't like him (and though Piecelle has many faults, he tends to be an excellent judge of character and is loyal to Lannister to a fault). Qyburn being the Valonqar makes the most sense because he would be put into the position of having power over Cercei because of her own choices. While she constantly complains about all of her choices being made for her, we are consistently shown that she makes the worst choices when she makes them herself.
As an aside, Qyburn being the last Reign also puts him in a position to be Tywin's poisoner, and possibly even the creator of the strangler crystals and hairnet used for Joffery's/Tyrion's murder. He could even have been in league with Oberon or Littlefinger, or both. And he is ultimately in control of Robert Strong/Frankenmountain.
Holy crap Maegor is genius 😂😂
#42: Maggy wasn't speaking High Valyrian at all. Val secretly has a last name, and it sounds like "Unqu'arh".
Honestly it feels like it could be anyone whether they are pretty on tbe outside and evil or beautiful on the inside having a good nature to them being a younger sibling. Top pick os Jaime as for some reason people think they will die together yet we see many times prophecy never work the way it's entended
The younger part probably aegon who is basically rhegar and cersie kept thinking about him more so than jaime who was her
I didn't know about Victarion being a candidate, but now that you've said it, it does look possible to me.
Personally I'd preffer if Arya somehow was the Valonqar if maybe Cersei misheard the word, the same way that people pronounced Maegi as Maggy.
While I believe Jamie will be the outcome, I also personally think that Arya is a fantastic candidate.
The prophecy is High Valyrian, which we learned has terms that are genderless. Valonqar possibly being one and therefore meaning "Little Sister"
Let's takr a step back and realize that the valonqar portion comes right after the part stating that another queen will replace Cersei. The valonqar could therefore be the new queen's little brother or sister.
I personally have thought Sansa becoming Queen of the 7 Kingdoms could be a decent end to the story as a way to reflect the end of the Wars of the Roses and so if Sansa becomes queen then her little brother/sister would kill Cersei. Well just so happens that Sansa's little sister is an assassin.
Does this take leaps of faith? Certainly. Is it likely? Eh, no.
Martin doesn't have much of a concept of Valaryian and it was later created for the show. In real life just because a single word is gender neutral doesn't mean the entire language has no concept of gender. Even in English "firefighter" is gender neutral, but "wife" isn't. It's possible that Valyian has literally no concept of gender, but it's possible that it just doesn't have a linguistic gender related to sex. A linguistic gender could be alive/inanimate rather than the European male/female. Also, Aemon when he is saying this is largely trying to justify Danny being the Prince that was Promised, because in his opinion the fact that she hatched dragons means that she must be the prince that was promised.
I think it will be ser pounce avenging his brothers, who most likely have been killed by Jeoffrey.
Ah, Azor Ahai is the valonqar! I wonder if he is going to be revealed to be a horse as well...
One suggestion I like the sound of starts with a translation misunderstanding. Just like 'prince who was promised' could be a mistranslation, where the original doesn't actually specify sex, so could the Valonqar. Maybe it means 'little sibling' so maybe it could mean a brother OR sister.
So who could it be? Arya. But specifically Arya wearing Jamie's face.
While Jamie being the valonqar seems like nice symmetry, starts by killing a monarch and ends by killing a monarch, I don't think that's how it will go. His arc at the moment is heading away from Cercei, and towards Brienne and Stoneheart/ the Starks which in turn heads him towards the North and The Others storyline. So I think he'll die fighting to defend the land, probably while defending his new/real love, Brienne. Not only will this still have symmetry, because he still starts and finishes by defending the people, but it also has him acting like a 'true' knight and will be publicly seen as good, thus redeeming the 'kingslayer.
Afterwards Arya will take his face and then, disguised as him, infiltrate Cercei's entourage and kill her.
This would be fitting for the character arcs of both Arya and Jamie; Arya gets to use her training and cross a name off her list, and Jamie gets personal and public redemption.
That would be so lame and unsatisfying I’d quit reading the book if that happens
suprised ive never seen an in depth sword tierlist or something of the sort? just an idea. love your content!!!
I love this idea. Might have to make it a weapon tier list, the Valyrian steel Axe of the Celtigars needs to be included.
@@QuinnTheGM weapons definitely opens it up to a LOT more. Dawn has to be my favorite and after watching a bit too much David Lightbringer I can totally see the symbolism with meteors ☄️
I love the Robb Returns idea that it’s actually ValonGar fish. That she’s deadly allergic to. Or the Valonqar River.
"Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds," she said. "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." -A Feast for Crows Cressen no longer recalled the NAME THE ASSHAIGAVE THE LEAF or the Lysene poisoners the crystal. In the Citadel, it was simply called the strangler. -A CLASH OF KINGS The poison is made from plants that are only found on islands in the Jade Sea. The leaves of the plant are picked and aged, then soaked in a wash of limes, sugar water, and rare spices from the Summer Islands. The leaves are then discarded, but the liquid is kept and thickened with ash and allowed to crystallize. What is the name of the plant? Perhaps it's the Valonqar. OR Valonqer could also mean Little sister. What if Tywin has a bastard daughter out there ehat we are not aware of yet?
Though I overwhelmingly think Jaime will be the one, something I seldom see come up in the Valonquar discussion is the problem of Valyrian lanuage not having gendered words [in the sense of correlating to human genders.]
"No one ever looked for a girl," he said. "It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. ... What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. " AFFC Sam IV
This I think opens the possibility that Valonquar is a term that means either younger brother /or/ younger sister, which opens a whole additional can of worms for candidates. The biggest implication there would be Arya as the killer
We know that Prince and Princess share a word, but they do have gendered words for mother, father, husband, wife, son, daughter, etc. So it makes sense that brother and sister have separate ones as well. In some real cultures, monikers are even more exact, which seems to be the case here, that younger brother and older brother would be called differently and so would sisters.
The Valonqar has the problem as a prophecy that it could be pretty much anyone. From Aemon we get the idea that Valyrian might not be a gendered language, so Valonqar might just mean younger sibling. Meaning Brienne, Arya, Sansa, Margery, Myrcella, Arianne, Genna and a ton more could fit if you wanted them to.
Wild idea, but what if the valonqar isn´t actually a literal younger sibling or even a person?
Because Dany will come to Westeros eventually and among her armies are, as it seems, going to be the Second Sons, an organisation named after the fact that they are the ->younger siblings
I never noticed the double meaning of "gold will be their crowns" as referring to their hair, but it makes sense given the significance f that fact. I always figured the purpose was to be an ostensibly grand prediction - all your children will be kings and queens! - that covers for the tragic reason for this, made explicit by the "shrouds" line - that they'll only all rule because they'll succeed each other in quick succession.
It reminds me of how Macbeth and Banquo both get ostensibly good prophecies - hey, YOU get to be king, and YOU get to be the father to kings! - that when you stop and think about the mechanics of succession for a second, turn out to undermine each other.
So is Bran not a possibility. Him catching Cersei in the act is the inciting incident in his story to becoming an omnipotent tree wizard. Trained by arguably the most morally bankrupt “good guy” that’s ever existed. He wouldn’t even need to be there in person he could Warg Robert Strong, or Moon Boy, or Qyburn and do it from behind the wall.
One thing is for sure: the "queen" is the queen of Jamie's heart. She lost him to Brienne (the beauty).
Eh, I always thought that the way Cersei and Jamie ended up in the show is just another proof of D&D not putting effort- you know that story GRRM often mentions about prophesies? About the Lord from the War of the Roses who was prophesied to die beneath the wall of a certain castle so he avoided it his whole life only to be found dead in front of the inn whose sign was the picture of that particular castle? I always thought this was the story GRRM told D&D when they asked him about Valonqar and then they took it literally and made Cersei die beneath the wall of the Red Keep.
What about Young Griff? If he is Aegon, then he is the younger brother of Rhaenys
It’s UnTommen. Not some Qyburn mix-up. But Arya Stark wearing Tommen’s face. The worst possible death for any parent. Thank you.
Got you with the like and comment, Godmother 👍
8:01 That probably wasn't Gregor Clegane's actual head. Something tells me that reanimation requires the head, whether Lord of Light resurrections or Qyburn's sorcery.
Yup, I think it was the skull of the dwarf that the Tyroshi guy gave her as it's describe as overly large. Qyburn could have easily just used that skull instead of Frankengregor's.
There's no evidence that Qyburn's necromancy requires a head. That's just your headcanon. Also, the other Kinsguard knights literally said they CANNOT see anything behind Robert Strong's visor...not that hard to believe it's a headless corpse. It's just that the show brainwashed you so much that you expect to see stuff from the show in the books, that's all.
@@gooby214 Lol. It's not my "headcanon" and I'm not brainwashed by the show. Robert Strong obviously has his head. I cannot believe I have to explain this. Here's the passage from Dance when Cersei meets Strong for the first time:
"Her savior was real. Eight feet tall or maybe taller, with legs as thick around as trees, he had a chest worthy of a plow horse and shoulders that would not disgrace an ox. His armor was plate steel, enameled white and bright as a maiden's hopes, and worn over gilded mail. *A greathelm hid his face.* From its crest streamed seven silken plumes in the rainbow colors of the faith."
_A greathelm hid his face._ Not even his head: specifically his face. So Cersei has some reason to believe Strong's face is there, perhaps a glint of the eye or some undescribed detail. By the way, if the helmet were fixed in place, that would be obvious and weird: you'd have a character say something like "strangely, his helmet never seemed to move, as if he had no head at all."
This is all on top of the fact that Obara Sand, when remarking on the skull of Gregor Clegane, explicitly doubts that the skull is his:
"What did the Mountain look like? How do we know that this is him? They could have dipped the head in tar. Why strip it to the bone?"
All very good questions! Given the treacherous nature of Cersei and Qyburn, I think she's spot on: the skull that was sent to Dorne is not Clegane's. Why? _Because Qyburn needed it to resurrect him._
This is a very plausible conclusion to draw from the books. Not headcanon at all.
@@Naberius359 Weak points, but possible. I'll believe it when I'll see it.
I've always thought it was Jamie however someone said Edmure Tully to me once and I liked that idea.
4:24 just reading this makes me see why I have probably never read something better. ASOIAF is just insanely well written. George is on another level.
I have a crazy idea of and ending for Robert Strong: Being "reborn" after Tyrion's trial would have turned him into the Valonqar and, as the dead rise he would be turned into a wight. As he is always at Cersei's side, he would turn on her, without a single person to stop him, and choke her to death with his cold hands, subverting all expectations of Jaime and Tyrion and playing with the theory that The Hound would do it
I need that Victarion theory to come true. I love that guy. He's hilarious.
I've always thought it was something to do with Jaime, although I'll admit, your Victarion theory is making a lot of sense.
Another dark theory I've always considered is that it's Arya wearing Jaime's face.
I think the skull sent to the dornish was the “dwarf with an especially large head (in a bag)” that was brought to Cersei to try and claim the reward for Tyrion, I think Gregor still has his original head lol
I swear I remember reading there was a pin for the hand of the king as well as the necklace I feel like I remember Tyrion describing it while putting it on as his short time as the hand.
Wasn't it a pin when Ned had it? I remember Robert saying "Take it or I swear I'll pin it on Jaime Lannister". I think the chain was Tyrion's invention?
A detail I've never seen anyone consider is the fact that the term volonqar is used at all to describe Cersei's eventual killer. The rest of this prophecy is spoken in what we can assume is Westerosi so it begs the question why the sudden choice of using a valyrian word to describe the little brother? Given the cultural context I can only assume two potential factors the exact term is meant to do:
1. Narrow it someone who is valryian or believed to be Valyrian
or 2. narrow it down to a Royal figure
With this in mind, it narrows it down to really only a few people (Assuming only younger brothers qualify):
1. Tyrion (assuming he's a secret Targaryen which is unlikely but still)
2. Faegon (Alleged Little Brother to Rheanyra)
3. Euron(Little Brother to Balon)
4. Victarion (Refer to Euron)
5. Jon Snow (If R+L=J in the books)
6. Bran (Little brother to Robb)
7. Rickon (refer to Bran)
8. Tommen (Little Brother to Joffery)
It will be similar to Star Wars. Cersei (Anakin) sees the future and tries to prevent it. By doing so she is fulfilling her destiny herself. (Anakin killing Padme) and Cersei leading with her actions to her death by the hand of Jaime. The brother she loved and not the one she hated wrongfully.
What about Loras Tyrell? Curious of your thoughts on this.
I always thought it was going to be Jaime. However, a point to be made for Tommen is that Arya will kill tommen and take his face to kill Cersei. I personally don’t really think this is going to happen but it would be more fitting and possible than resurrection through Qyburn
What about the young Griff option? If he takes Kingslanding, or tries to? (Griff was raised to think that he was the younger brother of the man who happened to be her first love)
I just hope Myrcella makes it out alive, I like her, the way she stood up to Joffrey at times, her courage to do her duty, beating Trystane at cyvasse. She's smart and brave. The way Cersei's kids came into the world is horrible but so is Jon's conception. I mean, hes dead but, you know.
I still believe Jeyne Westerling is the younger, and more beautiful Queen. Her grandmother was Maggie the Frog. This is stated in Jaimes chapter when he's preparing to leave Riverrun.
Good video, but I'm kinda surprised you didn't consider fAegon. He could overthrow Cersei and order her execution, all the while appearing to be the little brother of princess Rhaenys.
I think it would be amazing if the funny pirate man who was originally going to die earlier to be the one to kill one of, if not the most important villains in the story.
on the point of Sandor Clegeine as the canindate, if a woman lost a trial by combat in some medieval (real world) law, she was strangled.
I think Jaime would be an interesting option to be the valonqar. But I would also enjoy if it was Arya using jaimes face to get the job done.
I thought Jamie came out first holding Cerci by the foot as he did.
so stannis as the valonqar is an unpopular theory it seems.
if valonqar means "little brother" in high valyrian, i doubt it means brother who is short or small. it is likely used as "younger brother" so tyrion being a small person is probably a red herring. him being a younger brother fits the description better.
I've always thought it would be Tommen or Stannis.
Tommen: If, as you said he's resurrected by Qyburn he will probably not be that same sweet little boy but instead the kid from Pet Sematary 1. OR as I've always thought, if the Night King makes it all the way south to KL, and King Tommen has died from a sickness or a fall or of the cold, and he's brought back along with all of the city's dead and Cersei's like, "Oh my sweet child, what blue eyes you hav-..........*gasp*", as Wight Tommen strangles the Dowager Queen. That would be epic.
Stannis: Younger brother to King Robert, disliker of Cersei, solid candidate, but please be Wight Tommen 🙏🏾
To go with your idea of how things went in the show...
Bran becomes the king at the end of the show. Bran was roped into his whole storyline by Bloodraven (a bastard Targaryen). What if Bran is the one to kill Cersei? He is a little brother and has the magical backing of a Targaryen (who would probably know Valyrian on top of everything else)
Great video. This is off topic but I've never understood why Jaime doesnt put a blade on his sword hand. He would still be able to fight and maintain his skills and instincts. I guess GRRM wants him to not be a great fighter anymore
I imagine it’d be difficult to not accidentally stab oneself.
his ability to fight was never the core of his development.
Because it's impractical. Think about it. Your hand is not just a sword-holder. You need the rotating ability of your wrist to help swing and direct the blade.
@@Naberius359 There is actually historical evidence for some people having replaced an arm amputation with a blade. About 10 years ago they found a Lonbardian warrior's grave in which he had a blade prosthetic for his missing hand.
Your shoulder can mimic a lot of the angles that the wrist can......or maybe it all the weed....
@@QuinnTheGM Hahaha. I figured Qyburn could make him some type of spring-loaded thingy, and Jaime's skill would solve the other problems.
12:22, “seduced” is an interesting read on what Euron did there
Any other read would’ve gotten me demonitized
@@QuinnTheGM good point 😂
all of ASOIAF prophecies and foreshadowing were going to be so impressive and mind blowing if George stayed on track. But now, 10 years later, every single possible theory and plot has been picked with a fine tooth comb. So I find it hard for George to even want to finish the book.
Aegon is a also a little bro and he's coming directly for Cersei (it's probably not him but still more likely than Robert Strong)
5:41 ACTUALLY there is a pin but there’s also a gold chain of hands that more vain Hands of the king liked to use, I.E Tywin and Tyrion
I think Cersei is gonna take her own life. The valonqar comes off to me as a charming way to refer to a little brother kind of like when in some Latin countries you refer to a young boy as “El Nino”. I believe if Tommen dies, Cersei would not be able to handle the emotional toll of it and take her own life using the Necklace of the Hand to hang herself. Cersei has a deathwish and Rather than caring about the state of the realm, all of her ambitions and actions for power come from a place of bitter spite and rage. When she realizes destroying the lives of others doesn’t heal her or avoid the looming dread of prophecy, she will take her life with the same symbol that defined her power.
Giga Chad, Rickon Stark is the Valonqar
The littlest possible brother
I think the way they can explain the TV ending is by saying that it was both of her little brothers. Tyrion devised the escape plan and Jamie led her to their eventual doom. Still lazy IMO, but I do think that’s what they were going for (assuming they took the valonqar prophecy into consideration at all)
Euron is my guess, giving her the title of Hand of the King and they both die from either Griff or Dany.
She thinks about it so much that it seems like one of those prophecies that when you try to avoid it you make it come true. So maybe when she sees it all unfold she strangles herself.
Another point, if she thought that Tyrion was the younger brother who was going to kill her, you'd think she'd be nice to him lol
What about Loras Tyrell? He's the younger Tyrell brother and he has a lot of reason to hate Cersei because of her schemes against Margaery
It makes the most narrative sense for it to be Jamie.
Here's an idea: Jamie gets killed by the Others, gets brought back at a wight. Wight's can remember certain things, like who the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch is. The Others send Jamie to kill Cersei, most wight's kill be strangling their victims with heightened strength. Jamie would only need one good hand to do the deed
Its a bit out there, but my favorite theory was always Danaerys being the valonqar.
For all we know "valonqar" is gender-neutral in High Valyrian and can refer to little sister as well.
Coupled with another favorite theory of mine -Aerys being Jaime and Cersei' dad (making Dany their little sister)- it would make perfect sense for Dany to be the younger and more beautiful queen that casts Cersei down and strangles her.
I'll admit that its rather contrived and requires a lot of mental gymnastics to work, but hey it wouldnt be an ASOIAF theory without unnecessary twists. Imo Dany will almost certainly be the younger queen at least (considering that she's actually one of the more plausible candidates).
It's been way too long since I've read the books. Thanks GRRM.... But is Kevin Lannister still alive at the end of the last one? He is the hand of the king and a younger brother. Just gets fed up with Cersei and kills her?
I've heard a rather plausible theory that Rickon Stark could be the Valonqar, as he is the youngest stark, and has been described as having quiet a temper, he might kill Cersei as revenge for what the Lannisters did to his family. But I think that Jaime is the most likely candidate, I mean, come on, it can only be him
What about Ser Pounce? He could be one of the younger kittens from his litter.
Hey, what happened to the live stream of the fake theories? Meant to watch it but don't see a reupload?
That’ll be up on Tuesday! It had some processing issues, and I didn’t want to publish it alongside this video because I wasn’t sure if they’d cannibalize each other.
@QuinnTheGM ah makes sense no worries, shall be looking out for it
What if for the Victarion’s theory, Cersei retains power and marries Euron for his fleet (similar to the show, but possibly with Euron scheming for his own gain more). Due to this, Jaimie and Euron end up fighting with it being believed that Jaime kills him. This enrages Victarion who then in return kills Cersei as Jaimie denied him his vengeance on Euron.
The one way to make "Maegor" work is doing what the show did. Have Jaime put her hands around Cersei's neck to protect her, not kill her, as she is crushed. That Jaime did specifically this with her hands to me shows this is the correct one and it would fulfill the prophecy in an unexpected way, as George Martin said.
I was wondering if the Valonqar could be Faegon? He's "a" younger brother, at least on the surface, and if he takes King's Landing, he would probably kill Cercei. Personally i still think/hope it will be Jaime
How silly would Robert Strong having one little hand look haha
What about (F)Aegon? He is the little brother and revenge is a big motivator.
I’m throwing this out there but could it not be ageon the little brother of rhaenys is he really is ageon that is. The second one could be Jon snow as he is also a litter brother to both of rhaegers children if R + L = J is true.