Narcissistic Parenting: Did Mother Gothel Ever Love Rapunzel in Disney’s Tangled? - The Fangirl
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- čas přidán 15. 05. 2024
- Disney's Tangled outdid itself with Mother Gothel, who is definitely a self-obsessed parent. But, even with extreme narcissism, did Gothel ever love her taken daughter, Rapunzel?
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It's remarkable that Rapunzel's mental state is as healthy as it is. I wonder if the magic of the sun drop flower could have acted as a stabilizing force.
It would be interesting if it could heal short-term emotional pain when Gothel sang, just like with physical injuries. That would keep her stable, but wouldn't negate the effects of long-term emotional abuse.
While being imprisoned in a tower, Rapunzel really wasn't left alone with nothing. She can get to have that prison as a home, and be able to do whatever she wanted that she's able to. Rapunzel had a lot of hobbies. She had Pascal as a playmate early on. While living with Mother Gothel, her presence wasn't always constant to belittle Rapunzel 24/7.
Despite Rapunzel's tower lifestyle, she still had a lot to be genuinely happy about before she stepped out of it when she knew she was ready.
although I appreciate how the tv series explores Rapunzel's trauma more
Sundrop helps with mental health?...
*Eats a yellow flower*
She’s a main character is a Disney movie, of course her mental state is 📈
I always loved the way that Eugene always moves Rapunzel’s hair out of her face when he expresses affection to her as opposed to Gothel directing affection to Rapunzel’s hair. Eugene loved Rapunzel not her hair, even after he learned what it could do. The power didn’t matter to him so he brushed it aside, so to speak, to see Rapunzel herself.
Disney always puts in those little hints. In frozen people with gloves have something to hide. Others wear mittens.
Also I just noticed that Eugene never tried to control her behavior either, even to the point of never trying to prevent her from returning to the tower. He saw her as her own person in need of space to learn and grow and was also patient with her strange behavior and rapid mood swings as she was trying to untangle the nonsense Mother Gothel was putting in her shows how reasonable he is as a person.
And the epitome of Eugene’s affection was when he cuts her hair.
Outstanding
Exactly!
Also when they’re leaving the tower he climbs down on his own instead of relying on Rapunzel’s hair
the thing about gothel only looking at the hair when expressing any form of love or affection actually kind of blew my mind lmao
I saw this movie so many times when it was new, and watching it last month was just like “OMG look at her eyes! How did I never notice that?!”
@@TheFangirlWatches can you do a video on the movie coco and the families decision to ban music and how it hurts more then helps because if you saw the movie the argument scene was pretty intence thanks
@@TheFangirlWatches I felt that the only reason Mother Gothel acted that way was to prevent others from finding out that Rapunzel had the power of the Sundrop in her hair and use it for themselves....hence why she didn't allow her to leave the tower
@@JadenYukifan28 no it was because she didn’t want anyone to find the lost princess, aka rapunzal. that’s why when she first saw that rapunzel was missing from the tower, her immediate thought was that the kingdom has found her before she found out she was with Flyn.
@@tuopsy I know that, I was saying that it was FIRST thought
Mother Gothel scares me for this reason. She's so real. I like the golden child analogy with Rapunzel and her hair. Something I always noticed was Gothel kissed the hair. If you're not paying attention it looks like a forehead kiss but know Gothel it literally kissing Rapunzels hair. She doesn't love her only what she can do.
Megan Marchionda I definitely realized that. Another piece of proof was keeping her in the tower. The tower, according to Goethel, was a place of safety and security. But it was actually a prison unbeknownst to Rapunzel for the time, and it was just to keep her youth and beauty secured for herself also unbeknownst to Rapunzel. People keep saying that she's a narcissist, but she literally turned to dust once Flynn cut off the hair with the shard of glass. So it was basically to save her own life at the expense of using someone else.
Yes! Until the last time I watched the movie (recently) I never realized that every bit of kindness was to the hair. Not noticing that detail was one of the things that made me think Gothel did care about Rapunzel while she raised her, because she had moments of being very affectionate. Althoguh, dangling love like a carrot on a stick and then blaming you when it’s taken away is another classic narcissist move. :(
@@TheFangirlWatches also abusive parents buy their kids gifts after beating them to “make up” so to speak
@@TheFangirlWatches I was actually thinking the same thing and was surprised when I heard it in the video
Facts repunzel is like a doll to her or a toy to play around not her child that she loves, she does not love her. Gothel is narcissist mom extremely abusive mentally.
in tangled the series, it's pretty clear gothel never loved anyone but herself. not even her biological daughter.
She has a biological daughter?!?!?!
She has a biological daughter????!!!!!!!
@@happyfrenchtoast420 yes, but that’s a huge spoiler for TtS
@@thatsweird7190 do you want spoilers?
@@glamourweaver Yeeessss I'm dying to know
Here's something to point out.
Between Tangled the movie and Tangled the Series it was more like Cassandra was the scapegoat and eventually got abandoned and Rapunzel in a matter of speaking was the golden child due to Rapunzel having the power of the golden magic flower in her hair.
It's difficult to explain but Narcissistic parents and Golden Children still aren't good connections between parents and children.
They both were. She treat them both the same way. She used them to get what she wanted, told them some sweet nothings, and bust her own ego by trating them like dirt, but with Cass she was willing to get rid of her to kidnap Rapunzel who only got more value to her because of the magic of her hair.
If she abandoned her biological daughter (Cassandra) I doubt she cared about Rapunzel
Exactly gothel only loves her looks not anyone else
I don't cal the series cannon..
@@Queenofobscurepairings Why? It's literally made by Disney, so it's canon.
@@Queenofobscurepairings and plus it is amazing
@@Queenofobscurepairings It was made by Disney tho, it's supposed to be Canon lol
Doubt it. If she loved anything other then herself, it was Rapunzel’s hair.
That’s the truth gothel is meant to represent an abusive parent
@@carlacarrero4975 just like Frollo, Tremaine, and The Evil Queen
Speaking of The Evil Queen, where was Snow White’s father when all of this mistreatment was going on? Who is looking at their daughter being put in rags and going “that fine. This is fine.”
@@TheFangirlWatches hell if I know, hell he’s probably dead, knowing Disney’s track record of dead parents or parent for a character
Cinderella, Aladdin, Jasmine, Ariel, Belle, Simba, Tiana, Pocahontas, Quasimodo, Bambi, Anna, Elsa, Tarzan, Todd, etc..........
@@TheFangirlWatches probably dead
As someone who's mum was basically like a 1 to 1 replica of mother gothel, she doesn't love repunzel, she loves what repunzel gave to her. Gothel is narcissistic but has deluded herself to believe that repunzel is just her hair, therefore she genuinely believes that she loves repunzel but she doesn't. My mum was exactly like this. She threw me out last year when I found my voice and told her to get me help or I'd rather be homeless. I was homeless for 2 weeks before meeting my dad for the first time in years. I've lived with my dad for just over a year now and while I still have paranoia about noises at night, light under the door, always having an exit (I used to jump out of windows when I was younger, if the door was locked, that's... something I'm working through in therapy now) I'm doing better than I was, and my dad got me into therapy that my mum refused to let me have, even though it's free in my country...
I am so sorry that happened to you
I’m so sorry you went through that. I’m glad your dad seems to be healthier for you and especially glad you’re getting help.
Wow that's so messed up. I kind of have a gothel mom too but just a bit different.. Im glad u chose to stand up for urself to b better! N im sry all those things happened to u.
I am so sorry that you had to go through that. I hope you feel better.
Gothal even calls her Flower, not a special nickname that a parent might call their child in a loving way like honey, sweet pea or sweetie, but Flower. Like the flower that had the power to keep Gothal young and alive for several eons.
My father calls me peanut , does that mean -
@@squidballs THE MAGIC PEANUT
My parents call me bug, when I ask them why this is they say it's because I was very small when I was born, like a lady bug is small, and my name is actually Lily so all my life they've called me "Lily Bug, or "Bug,". I actually like the nickname. It's never bothered me. But Gothel calling Rapunzel "Flower", now that's kinda upsetting to hear and think about.
Gothel is such a toxic person, it legitimately makes me want to start fast forwarding all of her scenes every time I watch Tangled because it's such an unpleasant experience to see gaslighting and cruelty like that. Even though it's a story about a girl with enchanted 50+ foot long hair, at the core of the story the dynamic between Gothel and Rapunzel is strikingly real. I find her to be the Disney villain I hate the most and find the least amount of redeeming qualities for, and it only gets WORSE after seeing how she was prior to the events of Tangled in Tangled the Series (I'll say no spoilers here, but Gothel shows only manipulative tendencies with every relationship she had). I don't believe she cares at all for Rapunzel, only her hair. It's sad how much Rapunzel went through and for how long she endured it.
Imagine being raised by someone like Gothel. I'm honestly surprised Rapunzel is such a sweet flower child (love it though). Now that I'm free it's nowhere near that pretty 😅
@@shandicrabill5938 victms of narcisists tends to be very empathic
@@shandicrabill5938I was. Foster parents who take foster children, especially disabled ones, only for the money are exactly like that. (When you’re disabled they can keep leeching off of you indefinitely if they get a conservatorship over you)
Off topic but its 70+ ft of hair
My mother is a raging narcissist. It took me 30 years before I realized that she was abusive.
I’m so sorry that happened to you
I'm more sorry that she also did it to my wife. That led to three years of not seeing or speaking to each other, which meant that she missed out on the birth of her first grandchild.
I'm gonna guess it took moving in with your wife before the blinders came off, and you could really see how toxic the situation was? It usually takes another making a massive effort to break people out.
@@shadeblackwolf1508 Yes, that and a few rounds of therapy before I realized that this wasn't supposed to be normal.
@@jvondd stay strong and live your best life, now that you can
I used to surround myself with people like Mother Gothel. They didn't try to isolate me, I did that on my own.
I'm sorry that's happened to you. I also tend to find myself going for that same type of personality, and I'm just starting to become self-aware of it.
@@TheFangirlWatches I'm sorry you went through that too, I could never tell someone how to raise their kids.
I watch my niece & nephew as they raise their babies & sometimes I think "I would've handled that differently", but I would never say anything because they're good people & it's just not my place.
Well, I'm no psychologist, hell, I didn't even go to college, and I don't know your whole history but, generally speaking, people tend to seek out what is familiar to them. Thus, when someone is raised by abusive parents, they will then seek out other abusive relationships because that's what they know. I'm sure there's a techical term for this.
@@stevenhiggins3055 yea thats definitely part of it. Ive grown up with a narcissist parent, but ive ended up just hating them for how theyve treated me and my siblings, and especially how theyve treated my mum like a slave, and wanting to avoid anyone similar, because people like them remind me of them, and i want nothing to do with it
Me too It was difficult to realize what was actually happening I was so used to being treated that way that I thought I was being loved
Mother Gothel is the true Disney villain according to me. Every other villain in Disney has been kinda predictable so far and are openly evil. Mother Gothel puts up a facade of being a mother, over a period of 18 years keeps Rapunzel locked up under the pretense of keeping her safe, subconsciously makes Rapunzel feels like she's unworthy and manipulates EVERYTHING she has to express or offer. Its the subtly that is the most dangerous quality of a villain...
Perhaps, she seems and sounds a lot more real in those scenes because the team writing, drawing, scene coordinators, and directing the movie asked its female members what was it like having a mean-spirited mother. The ladies answered with different responses and the writers took notes. Some of the women who took the poll explained how badly she was treated being the oldest, and how the youngest, the troublemaker, was always the favourite. Those traits were put into Gothel and they thought "This will open up conversations between parents and children. Looks great. I think I'm gonna cry"
I think the only reasons Gothel did anything nice for Rapunzel was to placate her like buying treats and toys for a pet. The parsnip soup made for a nice distraction from Rapunzel wanting to see the lights on her birthday. Then the seashell trip was compensation for yelling at Rapunzel so she would appear to be less of a bad guy.
I’m surprised she even let Rapunzel know when her birthday was when she could have made up a false birthday for her.
Wouldn’t work; The lanterns would still fly.
I couple months ago I broke up with a friend who had narcissistic traits. We were friends from elementary school through college for 12 years, 12 YEARS! She made me feel stupid whenever I didn't agree with her, but I agreed with her a lot, she put down any adults who'd call her out behind their backs to me, she talked trash about her parents and whenever I had a family thing to do or my parents did something out of her liking, she'd talk shit about them in front of me. I finally woke up after two incidents that made me realize who she really was. I texted her saying that I wasn't comfortable being friends anymore and why I wasn't. I kid you not, all she had to say, her last words to me were "LMAO Bye". We've never talked again. I still get sad over it sometimes and I'm trying to recover. Thanks for reading this comment I hope you're having a good day/night :)
I’m sorry that happened. I’m glad she’s out of your life. It’s hard to move on from a long time friend, but it’s better late than never to get rid of a toxic person. She clearly didn’t care about you at all and only cared about herself.
Sounded like she didn't even cared abt u at all. Sorry that happened to u but I'm glad u woke up from that situation
@@epcza13 Agreed
“Parents have favorites or golden child”
Me as an only child: *sips tea* “Can’t relate”
Sameee
Same
That feeling when you're their only child, but you're still not their favoriteಥ‿ಥ
@@mariunfabregas7533 then you realize, the golden child it's your favorite cousin
@@mariunfabregas7533 I relate to this ( TДT)
When a villain isn’t some powerful wizard or magical entity but rather a real person like Gothel, Frollo, Clayton, etc it’s all the scarier because we can’t take comfort in them not being real. They are real, so to speak. Actual people who kill, torture, kidnap, etc to get their way. Who’s biggest weapon is their manipulation
Another sign of her mental capture/attachment to Gothel comes at the end. After Eugene cut her hair and Pascal tripped Gothel out the window Rapunzel reached out to her as if an attempt to save her. It goes to show that the mental capture was deep at its roots. This was even after Gothel had her in chains fighting her and stabbed Eugene. She still wanted to save her.
Mother Gothel didn't even love her own daughter (from Tangled the series), so how could she loves a girl who she kidnapped for her magic hair? A girl who she took from her family and locked up in a tower for years? Everything she does is for herself, not for Rapunzel.
So Gothel abandoning Cassandra was the best thing she could've done for her? The Captain seems to be a much better parent than Gothel.
I had a "Mother Gothel" in my life for a short period, and it traumatized me. I can only imagine the effect of having someone like her around from birth. My heart goes out to those suffering. Your life will get better.
I had one for eight years. Up until I was almost 21. And only because I became too dangerous for her to keep around anymore. My twin sister tragically had lived under that for 21 years now.
To answer the question. No, Mother Gothel only loved Rapunzel's hair and nothing else. I love this analysis and also liked how you pointed out that Gothel gave the affection to the hair and not Rapunzel!
Will narcissism is clearly a toxic trait that humans have just to manipulate or overcome people to achieve their goals mother gothal just obsessed with her self the series made it clear that she doesn't like her own daughter
My mom's perfect children were aleays my brothers. Even tho they're losers. So yeah, our relationship died when i realised that i would never b enough for her.
Same
Same here!!!!!
Same here, just with my grandparents.
Without spoiling anything we saw how Gothel treated her own kid. If she had any love for Raps it would've been like a hard ass boss might love one of his workers at best.
I never realized she was looking at her hair all the time she was being affectionate, I noticed she would always kiss it though. Also watching this made me realize ex-roommate who is also an ex-friend was likely a narcissist on top of being a sociopath. After 10 years of friendship we get into one disagreement for the first time, I stand my ground and he threatens to kill me if things don't turn out the way he wants them too. Then cried to his mommy, our landlady, to get me kicked out and played the victim. Because everything was always my fault and he HAD to be the one who was in the right no matter what and he HAD to get what he wanted no matter the cost. I regret not cutting that A**hole out of my life sooner.
I have watched Tangled many times. It wasn't until I introduced it to my husband recently that I even noticed how Gothel looked at her hair. So this theory came at a brilliant time for me!
I was the same! I’d seen the movie so many times and then I suddenly noticed where Gothel’s eyes were always going.
@@TheFangirlWatches It broke my heart just how DEEP it went! I knew the flower 'nickname' yet even calling it that doesn't seem right anymore. O_O
Having grown up with an extremely narcissistic mother myself, I don't believe Gothel ever loved Rapunzel. People like that lack genuine empathy for others, and they are *very* good at getting what they want by any means necessary.
My mother is a narcissistic parent. This movie hit me hard for that reason. I eventually grew enough of a backbone to cut her off. She still tries to get in contact with me, but I don't answer.
I’m so sorry, I know that’s a very difficult thing to do and continue with. You are a very strong person, Andra, and I hope you stay strong and always do what’s right for you.
@@TheFangirlWatches Thank you very much. You have a good year. ❤
My mother in law is a narcissist, probably a sociopath too. It's sad. My father in law is completely submissive to her and he's the breadwinner, makes a Lot of money and has a Master's Degree, but still stays with her. I feel so sorry for him. We've tried to save him over the years, but he won't acknowledge her wrong doing and if he does, he's just excusing her bad behaviour. The result is, none of their children will have anything to do with her, they don't see their grandkids and even though he has been told he is welcome to see his grandkids, he won't. Just because of her.
Can u make a part two including Cassandra her biological daughter in the analysis
why is this literally my parents? mother gothel even looks like my fricking mom, like i just realized all this haha.
Oh no!
What if she is gothel secretly? ...*dramatic suspense music plays*
“You’re sure you can be alright on your own?” **is looking at the hair while asking the question**
*U-Um.. Gothel? I don’t think that the hair would even be capable to answer- But like- Ok- you do you, I guess-*
i always related to Rapunzel because i grew up with a narcissist parent who I had to cut out to protect myself.
I’m so sorry Toria. It’s a hard thing to do, my best friend had to do that with her own mom about a decade ago and I know it takes a toll, but I hope it’s been an emotionally better space for you since you cut that parent out.
@@TheFangirlWatches it has been. It's taken many years to fully cope but with many people in my life to support me it got easier.
I said this in another comment but this is why I can’t relate to Rapunzel. Unlike her, I don’t have a “real” mom I was stolen from who won’t abuse me.
My “real” mom IS the abuser, and unlike Rapunzel, I have to cope with that and live with the fact that I will never have a mother who loves me. I don’t have a backup waiting in a castle, what I have is it.
This actually made me think of my grandma who practically raised me (since I was 2 until I was 16 I spent half a week at hers). Omg. I feel sick
It made me think of my mom. Her actions didn't make sense until now.
I was also raised by my grandmother most of my life! (7 to 16 years old). More than her abuse, it was the understatement and mockery that I get when I first reached for help. People doesn't necessarily trust you when you said that you have a real mean mother or aunt. They all think that it's impossible, that you exagerrrate and that they love you. With grandmas, it's even worse
As the child of a narcissistic overprotective parent, it honestly is no wonder I so related to Rapunzel as a teenager. This was such a concise and well-explained analysis. Thank you for making it!
I wonder why Gothel treated Rapunzel with any level of kindness. She could've kept her chained up and never taught her to talk or walk. But instead she gave Rapunzel books and recreation and pretended to be nice. How does that keep her hair safe?
The best slave is one who is willing.
Donna Murphy who voiced Gothel confirmed that she did grow to love Rapunzel though it was very twisted and she kept trying to suppress any feelings she got for her as she raised her.
@@joshwillis2879I Aleays figured that was the dynamic between them. After raising someone for over 18 Years it would only seem reasonable that a person would grow some type of attachment even with it being for ulterior and selfish motives.
When speaking to her the first time about never asking to leave the tower again, she looked directly in her eyes and said "I Love You, very much dear." With. Rapunzel saying she loved her more and Gothel finishing while kissing the Hair "I Love You Most."
Basically showing that she indeed in her own twisted sad way does have genuine love for Rapunzel in a bad way but when it comes to the Hair and the power it brings, she'll always choose that first and Rapunzel would be second in comparison.
I do believe though if another random individual with the same powerful Hair and abilities were to pop up and Gothel had a choice between this new individual or the Rapunzel, she'd probably stick with Rapunzel due to them both being able to give her what she wants and also once again, it's truly difficult to not form any type of genuine attachment to a newborn infant and raising them for 18 Years. Rapunzel, cooking, talking, reading etc were all things Gothel had to have teach her when really all she needed from her was the Hair itself. Along with clothing her as a young infant, feeding her for wanting to keep her alive obviously but discovering she has a favorite dish that she makes for her on occasion. She was not a great mother or person.
She was an awful human being and a bad Mother included. Though in her own mind I always figured the sense of the movie that she did truly love Rapunzel though succumbed to the greed of Youth and the Hair which makes their end very tragic since at the end Rapunzel still and probably after the movie views her as her Mother for obvious reasons and Gothel at the end lost her youth, life and the love of her "Daughter." Rapunzel probably still loved her afterwards in her own way but aware of the awful person she was.
Maybe she loves Rapunzel in a twisted way ? but loves her her hair more
I think Gothel is so narcissistic that she believes she loves Rapunzel as a daughter. But... then again, she was awful to her biological daughter to so, that’s not saying much!
that's what i thought as well
Nope. She doesn't.
Narcissists lack the empathy to care about others.
If empaths are stars, narcissists are black holes.
Trying to understand narcissists by using your own emotions and reasoning as reference is a mistake. Or rather it's a trap they know how to exploit.
Most of a narcissists interactions with others are an act designed to get them what they want.
That's why empaths get trapped by narcissists so often, they interpret the narcissistic acting as feeling of love and compassion.
That what's going on between Rapunzel and Gothel, she act as Rapunzel mother to get what she want, the reason she present herself as her mother and not just her caretaker is because she want the authority and power a mother have over their child as well as the unconditional/unquestioning love they receive.
it’s hilarious how all my favorite childhood shows and movies are educating me on childhood trauma and abuse only *after* I finally escaped my abusive, narcissistic step father 🙃
This hit home very hard.. I remember watching Tangled in theatres with my very own Mother Gothel ten years ago. I even ended up meeting a Eugene in HS who helped me realized what she was doing, even a similar confrontation to the one in the film but it ended very differently. I got away from her physically but she's still in my life for now until I can cut her off/out. The worst part is sometimes I feel trapped in that tower mentally because I'll never be enough or too much.
I think the other tell tale sign that Mother Gothel didn't genuinely care for Rapunzel as a daughter was the fact that she willingly abandoned her OWN daughter (Cass) in Tangled the Series. Mother Gothel only ever cared for herself.
I can relate to Rapunzel here. My mom was always the things that Meg described Gothels behavior. My grandma always said "She's not a Narcissist, she's just self absorbed.", well to me, there are WAY too many similarities. Like how Meg described the golden child scapegoat child relationship, my mom lets my little brother do whatever the hell he wants, not caring about the consequences of making him a spoiled brat while I was always getting punished for something stupid, making me despise them both, I can't stand either of them.
but you need to understand tgat your brother is not at fault here.
I'm guessing your examples come from your own mother. My mom is a narcissist too. Growing up whenever we told her we loved her she responded with you better. Does it with her husband now that my brother and I set boundaries.
First thing I thought about was Tangled the Series, and if that can be used as context, but I feel like they focus more on Gothel and Cass than Gothel and Raps.
I was really disappointed that they didn't do more in the show with Gothel and Rapunzel, especially after she has that like daymare about Gothel. I was hoping she'd deal with her PTSD, but they never did. T_T
@@TheFangirlWatches I kind of liked that they had Rapunzel obviously affected by the tower and the memory of Gothel but they didn't delve past that.
A lot of times we see characters who are defined by their abusive relationships and the creators didn't want that for Rapunzel. Was she 100% okay with everything? No. And she probably won't ever be. But she did find a stable life with people who loved and took care of her. And while addressing these issues can lead to healing, it's not exactly an issue an episode can handle. Instead, they sprinkled the damage throughout the series, showing that something like this is a life long problem that doesn't have to control you but can still come up.
@@drudle oh yeah, totally! I think it was more a matter of me not relating to her throughout the series, as, alas, I am an angsty, cynical teen who can't empathize with her kind of optimism for the life of me; I personally take interest in her connection to other characters and all of the more complex elements of her character. But at the same time, I'm not the demographic of this show at all, and it is really upsetting when a character is defined by their trauma. Sprinkling inklings of her problems throughout was definitely the wisest choice, as the things that pique my interest aren't exactly in alignment with what kinda show this is. I still wish they'd done a _little_ bit more with it, but I understand that it's an easy hole for a work like this to fall into.
@@magnificloud Totally! Her optimism is quite .. overwhelming, lmao. But her brand of optimism comes from her trauma, if anything, and I find that relatable.
She spent her entire life transforming her shitty situation into a better one. It's what makes her unique as a DP; other characters like Belle, Jasmine, Ariel, etc, all dream about going out into the world and finding new horizons as fulfillment. And while Rapunzel wants to explore and see new sights,
it's always in a vacation way, not a "find a new home" way.
She paints walls, works on castle renovations, talks with townspeople on improving conditions, brings up new ideas for traditions. She's able to look at how things can be better and it all stems from how she had to do that as a defense against her horrible upbringing. It's an incredibly subtle way of highlighting her trauma without having to have delve into traumatic situations.
It's a complex detail other Princesses lack. Belle falls in love with Beast and finds a new home in the castle, Ariel falls in love with Eric and finds a new home in the castle. Cinderella, Aurora, Snow White, Moana, .. a ton of Princesses simply leave when they want things to be better for them. Rapunzel stays and creates something new from the mess. And Gothel taught her that lesson through her shittiness because, being locked in a tower, Rapunzel had no choice but to learn it.
I think the two times that Gothel seems to be worried and carefull about Rapunzel are about an "intermitent reward" system. That is, to keep you mentally chained, he/she gives you tiny bits of apreciation, to later take them back from you (due to your fault, of course) to keep you subyugated. So, you are always alert and submissive, waiting for the desired prize, being a good boy/girl.
Oh yeah, I grew up with a narcissistic mother & my husband has a narcissistic father. They've both said some very cruel things to us, so we keep our time with them limited.
Mother Gothel had a biological daughter named Cassandra that she abandoned for Rapunzel in Tangled Adventure
She didn't even love her own biological daughter and thought of her as a pest, what makes you think she loved Rapunzel?
Yay I’m first! And Mother Gothel is pretending to be Rapunzel’s mother but idk if she even loved 🥰 her
Congrats on first Juliette! But, yeah, Mother Gothel and Rapunzel's relationship is really interesting to dissect. This has been one of my favorite videos to do this year.
I grew up with a narcissistic parent but luckily for me, I would spend one week with the abusive parent and one week with the other who worked tirelessly to undo the damage. If I had grown up only being around the narcissistic one, nowadays I would probably being unable to tell abuse from love, I got dangerously close to that but since then I got therapy and it helped so much!
I cannot express what this video means to me.
My mom is a narcissist. She's constantly giving me back handed compliments, usually about how I'm smart but too dumb to use those smarts. She's worn me down for so long that my dad barely recognized me. My therapists have called it a "Mother induced depression" when I was committed. So Mother Gothel always was super triggering for me and I can barely watch Tangled because of it, even though I love the movie.
Excellent commentary!
Even though Gothel was abusive, narcissistic, psycho. Rapunzel clearly still cared for her Since this was the only mother she knew her entire life. When Gothel falls to her death on the tower there’s a quick moment where Rapunzel reaches out her hands like she’s trying to save her. It’s clear that Rapunzel still cares for Gothel even after everything , and she was the ONLY person rapunzel had been around her ENTIRE life. I always knew Rapunzel probably had a lot of trauma after she is freed from the tower, and reunited with her real parents. I mean can you even imaginebeing raised by someone like Gothal? and then finding out that she literally stole you as a baby, manipulated you your entire life, tried to kill your boyfriend. I wish the movies showed Rapunzel struggling trying to adopt in corona with her real parents. That would have been interesting and it would’ve made her honestly a little bit more relatable because I find it hard to believe someone could go through something like that and then just move on like it was nothing that quickly. But obviously it’s a Disney movie so they’re not going to show Rapunzel in therapy LOL.
The most helpful part of this video for me is learning about the golden child vs the scapegoat child. I’ve been the scapegoat child in my family and it’s always really hurt me but learning this makes me feel better because I know it’s not me and I can’t do anything about it etc. Idk.
Can we please see a video, on Cassandra, Ghotel and Rapunzels relationship?
narcissists don't love in the same way normal people do, they "love" you for what you give them, thats why as soon as your not providing them they turn absolutely nasty.....also its so accurate that rapunzel couldn't leave easily, they've manipulated you so much that you dont know anything else and your so isolated that you feel like you cant get away even if you do realize whats going on....
It’s actually been proven that often times The Golden Child label is conditional with narcissistic parents
If The Golden Child slips up and does something the narcissist doesn’t like or stops doing the thing they want The Golden Child can become the scapegoat
I am so glad there is more and more knowledge spreading about NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) and narcissistic personalities. It is so hard to avoid and nobody believes you what they do to you. I can really recommend this book: It's not you it is your mother by Danu Morrigan. Thank you for your video: spreading knowledge about this will finally the ones abused a voice and hopefully help and healing if more people know about it. This movie is such a good example explaining it to people who does not understand what the disorder is and how it effects the victim. Thank you!
Truthfully, if she did then she wouldn't have used her magic golden hair of goodness to keep her youth. Love means never having to use someone, or pretending to love them because they have something that they want.
There’s a lot of child actors whose parents are reading this and looking away awkwardly, lol.
The Fangirl then they're the ones who have the problem if they do because I'm not sorry for what I said. Because there was only "love" from Goethel when there needed to be just to keep herself from losing the one thing that protected herself from literally fading away. If anything Flynn showed more love and even self-sacrifice to Rapunzel than Goethel ever could.
I love Gothel because of how realistic she is. Many people have experience with manipulative and abusive people, be it their parents or a friend or a romantic partner or anything in between. People like Gothel exist in real life.
It’s just hard to believe that for 18 years, she just didn’t love Rapunzel.
Gothel will always be my favorite villain with how they did her
I've always thinked of that question ever since i watched the movie again. Even tho she is evil she can also be a kind person to Rapunzel.
That’s beca she is trying to trick rapunzel in order to be young not because she cares about her that is how abusers trick their victims with falls promises of only talk and no action
I think a narcissistic parent is more complicated than just “tricking” their child. I really think most of them don’t realize what they’re doing or they don’t know how to stop themselves from these kind of default patterns (not that the parent is the victim in these cases, just not self-aware).
You know, when I think about it. Disney villains are real tame compared to alotta villains in fiction. DISNEY BE WEAK! STEP UP YOUR GAME DISNEY
Well, they can only offer so much nightmare fuel to kids, they have to keep it somewhat tame, lol.
Dude, they make literal kids movies
"Look at how Rapunzel's Mother looks at her Daughter..."
Heck, look at how Flynne looks at Rapunzel and compare/contrast that with Gothel.
Not quite the same if someone wants you romantically. A parent/child bond is “I love you for just existing.”
Wow. Very interesting. You're right! Holy hell! O.O Everything you were saying, especially the parts of Mother Gothel loving the hair. I noticed that she is looking at it all the time!
That woman is so manipulative. Makes me want to rewatch Tangled all over again!♥ I watched this movie as a teen and never liked Gothel, but I never looked into it quite as much. I never thought of her as a narcissist. As an adult, though, it all makes sense.
Spot on analysis! Please folks from an empath don't fall into the trap of trying to save a narcissist, they destroy everything
I'm still trying to learn that lesson myself! Like, I can see where they're hurting, and I want to fix it for them, but that's NOT how healing works, and I just end up getting myself destroyed in the process. 😥
@@TheFangirlWatches Oh I know, for me the movie Coraline is a metaphor for narcissism with the Beldam being an embodiment of what the narcissist looks and feels like inside and the taking of childrens eyes is indicative of what they do to the supply/empath, lok but then again im psycho enought to believe that Alice in Wonderland, the Wizard of Oz, and Coraline are all the same universe and each female antagonist is the Beldam at different ooints of magical abilty(red queen and glenda) so I may be way off base but as you say theories are more fun
This is really interesting. I have always loved tangled and mother gothel is my favourite Disney villain. Not just because of her songs and style, but she is one of the scarier villains. She was written perfectly and in a way that it seems like she could be real! I never noticed that all of her affection was to rapunzle’s hair, it was interesting to learn even more about the many small details that go into movies. This was the first video of yours I have watched I will definitely watch more. Thank you for a great video!
When the movie came out when I was a kid, I loved it and heavily identified with Rapunzel, which I thought was because of her creative and versatile nature… until I watched it after my 18th birthday and realized we are more a like than I thought. And it’s so bittersweet to realize that your own parent(s) resembles the villain in a movie you’ve loved for a long time. I share many other things in common with Rapunzel too, as was scared out of going outside (even up ‘til now), “raised in a bubble” according to my sister- which I was, and I found that I am also an empath and many other things…
It’s just so very exhausting to have a parent like this and I hope I can become financially and academically fortunate and independent enough so I can move onto greener pastures and truly enjoy life without the shadow of an overbearing parent.
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Universe, please guide and protect me
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Off topic but I ended up having school teachers like this, and when I finally figured it out and fought back they had tried all their tactics, but ended up torn down and couldn’t figure it out, on the other hand after I had torn them down they had stopped being as narcissistic to everyone else and stoped almost completely for me
I was growing out my hair the last time I went to Disney, and I wanted long hair so I wore a dark and curly wig. Kind of like Bellatrix Lestrange. I was told I looked like Mother Gothel. And it was because of my dulle green eyes, pale skin, square face, the wig, and the red shirt I was wearing. I felt really bad ass because I think the villains are neat.
Omg my mom fits all those descriptions of a narcissist
I used to have a narcissistic landlord and grandma.
This gave me a better idea of a narrssit when before I hand I only heard it but didn't know what it really what it was.
I always wonder what would happen once Rapunzel grows old because then what's Mother Gothel going to do for eternal youth
She'll probably breed her
Well, if my other Tangled theories are correct, Rapunzel isn’t aging. I think, like the flower, she hit her peak age for growth/health/maturity and she’s locked into that physical age forever now.
@@TheFangirlWatches you know that makes sense i guess i forgot about that
@@TheFangirlWatches not anymore though, she gave up the sundrop and the moondrop--- she sent it back to the sky so she should be aging normally now
I doubt it. Gothel is an emotionally abusive, manipulative, gaslighting narcissist. All of the signs were there in the movie: constantly being condescending to Rapunzel and devaluing her personal qualities, turning to violence when her victim realised what she’s doing, painting herself as a victim to guilt trip her “daughter” into staying with her. She never cared about Rapunzel: she only cared about remaining young and beautiful.
I think another great pointer to narcissism is that not only did she literally kidnap a child, but she kidnapped ROYALTY. She was that entitled in herself to take a literal princess away for her own selfish ‘needs’
Don’t forget Gothel treated Cassandra the same way
Cinema Therapy did a discussion on Tangled and shows how Mother Gothenburg gaslights Rapunzle. It’s called “11 Warning Signs of Gaslighting in TANGLED”. So yes Gothel is a narcissist and seems to love what she can get out of her, her magical hair.
I grew up with a narcissistic mom and stepdad. I was isolated, a lot. I had no privacy, no choices, and was constantly gaslighted into thinking bare minimum "parenting" and just keeping me alive with food, clothes, and shelter, was above and beyond any mother would do. They would scream at me for minor inconveniences- me needing to go to the hospital fucked up THEIR day. They tried to scare me into never moving out, or donating my eggs. "You're never allowed to say no to anything. That's rude." I ended up in an abusive relationship with my first girlfriend, because I thought bare minimum was more than enough.
TLDR: Narcissism in your life will fuck you up. The best thing to do is get away from it. You can still love that person, but they will not love you back.
She loves the hair, and only tolerates the person under it.
Well said,Gothel only looks at Raps as her "flower" and nothing more. She even calls her flower a few times in the movie as well.
It would actually be a lot better if a narcissist were only a person in love with themselves. They at least would be alone and happily busy that way, and they wouldn't bother or hurt anyone else.
No. She loved the magic. She didn’t even love her own daughter. She abandoned her to kidnap Rapunzel, all for the magic.
growing up my older brother was then golden child,. I was the escape goat, fast forward my brother can't hold down a job,. while I moved out,. like how you talked about the golden child and the escape goat is 100% what i had to deal with, goodness this made me tear up,
OFF TOPIC: Have you ever seen the Emperor's new groove and do you like the movie?
I have, and I honestly like moments of the movie, but not the movie itself. I always fall asleep when it’s on for some reason, but I think Krunk is adorable and Yzma is such a fun villain!
@@TheFangirlWatches Cool. Understandable. HAPPY NEW YEAR.
I just had an argument with the narcissist.Narcissists should be isolated as they are harmful to someone's sanity.What about placing them all in an island? I can't stand the trauma....
I'm sorry you have to go through that. What I've found interesting is that a number of self-proclaimed Narcissists have jumped in the comments here and gotten mad, saying this video is putting a stigma on them, it's not fair, on and on - as if the trauma Narcissists inflict on other people means nothing, and we shouldn't be allowed to talk about it because it makes THEM look bad. 🙄 Not to mention, stigma or not, if you're aware you have a problem, it's on YOU to get help; you can't blame society if you decide to continue hurting people.
TRIGGERED.
I’m so done with you mother.
Like *beyond* done.
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As an empath who has been diagnosed with narcissitic personality disorder, I wish you could focus somewhat on how narcissists can heal and how, if we work really hard, we can make the choice to be better people because we truly want to be valued cared about. And to do that, you have to be a good person and to be a good person, you have to learn what other people are feeling and how what you say affects them and how to make sure you don't act on emotional impulses and think about your actions before you act. I also want to be a good person because I want to like myself. My image of myself depends a lot on what other people think of me. I used to try to do everything to convince ppl I was good. But as I learned, I figured out it's so much easier to actually be a good person than just trying to convince others that you are. Then if they disagree with me and I get furious, I can take a deep breath and say, "I know I am a good person. I am trying my best." and avoid lashing out. And when people provide real critisism, as a narcissist, I listen and think about it and I take the time to figure out if that criticism really does apply to me and if I need to change. There's this part in me that tells me to only think about myself, but I fight it every single time and I recognize that other people are just like me and they have feelings and value and are intelligent in their own beautiful way. I know people hate narcissists, but please understand, we aren't all bad people. It's something in our brain and some of us are really trying our best and are ashamed to admit we are diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder because of how people assume we are inherently hateful and selfish... I may be selfish, but I use myself as a model on how to treat others. If anyone yelled at me, I would be upset. I will not yell at people. If anyone ignored me maliciously, I would be upset. I won't ignore people for petty reasons. Narcissists are people too and they also matter. If we can work with them instead of villainizing them, it might help some of them get better.
I've always enjoyed your videos and will continue to do so. You are really analytical and concise with your words. I really appreciate that and the way you analyze media so that we can realize how it shapes our lives and who we are. You also have a strong emotional understanding for what others go through so I wanted to provide my side. I do care. I like your videos. I think you're great! The way some narcissists treat people is terrible, but that won't be everyone and it won't be me. Especially when videos like this point out that actions like the ones mother Gothel takes are not right. Seeing this video, I can internalize a lot of it and say, "Okay, so never use your lack of affection to hurt someone who you actually care about." So, I'm definately not saying to not make this video or point these traits out. But if you can provide some helpful tips for narcissists or something, it could maybe help the right person to improve and be a better, more considerate human
Thank you for watching, I'm very glad that you're here, and I do hear what you're saying in your comment. I'm also really happy to hear that you've gotten to a self-aware level that you can recognize and work on problem areas you see (I've known many who can't, so you're doing awesome!). Unfortunately, since Mother Gothel proves to be irredeemable, there wasn't much space to really look at that other side of the situation. We don't walk a mile in her shoes or understand any deeper, underlying rationale for her behavior. I also talk about characters and don't usually give viewers direct advice (other than broad things like "love yourself" or "you're strong enough to leave an abusive relationship"), and anything I do share is from a personal experience, so giving any psychiatric/medical advice is not something that I would want to do when every individual has their own background and issues that needs to be taken into consideration. What helps one person can set another person off. Where one group can reconcile, other relationships are too broken to heal. So, I can look at what someone on screen is doing and dissect why that's happening, in my opinion, but as far as diagnosing a real person or giving them techniques to handle their issues, that truly needs to be done individually with a professional therapist, not someone that went to school for film and animation.
As someone raised by a narc parent, you hit the nail on the head with this analysis. I recognized Gothel for who she was as soon as she presented herself, and this version gave new depth to the damsel in distress image that many Disney Princess' are prematurely given. Emotional abuse is the worst kind, sticks and stones break bones, but a broken mind can sometimes be almost impossible to heal.
Gothel didn’t even love her own daughter, much less Rapunzel.
I have a narcissist mother. She emotionally abused us (me and my sister) she still does. Whenever I tried to reach out to my friend they told me if she doesn't physically abuse you then it's not a problem. And I was broken. And I can't share more things with them cause my mother always told me never share anything with anyone they will always use it against you. It took me years to get over this words. But I still don't know if she is bad or I'm just overreacting.
You forgot to mention how all of her gifts were stand ins for where an apology should be, or could also be seen as a form of love bombing where she's giving Rapunzel a gift only because Rapunzel gave up on something for the sake of her ego.
I felt my silver hairs when you brought up how old this film is...
It's always interesting to hear these kind of takes on movies that have good stories. You seem to get a lot of the best stories out of real life situations, even if it's applied into a fantastic setting.
Rapunzel at the Snuggly Duckling does the empath a superior turn, taking charge of the roomful of ruffians and quickly assessing the human quality that might make each one "have a dream".
I mean it's pretty obvious that's why she kidnapped Rapunzel because of her hair so of course she didn't love Rapunzel she only wanted the hair
I recall some stuff about the hair. But this video was also frightening insightful on looking back at some personal things.
If you look at the three siliwets of Zan Tiri's followers one looks like Mother Gothel, so that could also be where she learned it. 2:05 she also did that with Cass to. Gothel only cared about Rapunzel's hair and herself, she didn't even love her own biological daughter.
Thank you! I am a very empathetic person, and I seem to always end up with these people around me who play these mind games. I always thought it was a defect in my character that led me to get in these situations. Now, I just have to figure out how to stand up for myself and not back down from their anger.