Why You Don't Cheap On Some Things... LESSON LEARNED!!!
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- čas přidán 3. 12. 2019
- I wish I could have seen this coming, but there’s not much I can do now about it. In some regards, it makes sense to buy aftermarket parts, but in others, it clearly isn’t. I purchased an OEM VTC gear from Honda because I’ve heard of countless problems with them over prolonged use. I didn’t hear anything bad about the timing parts other than the chain stretches like every other timing chain, so I figured I would save myself a couple bucks by not buying an OEM timing kit. I surely regret it.
The aftermarket cheap timing chain kit that I purchased and installed last year lasted me 32,000 kilometres, which is MUCH less than how long my original OEM kit lasted. Long story short, stick with OEM components when you know they work! I’ve included the Genuine parts and sealants needed to complete the job. By purchasing items below, it helps the channel operate and bring your more awesome content to you guys! Thank you all for your generous support ❤️
▶︎ Amazon - amzn.to/2DUGfFs
▶︎ Genuine Honda VTC Actuator - amzn.to/2RvnzCA
▶︎ Genuine Honda Chain Tensioner - amzn.to/2DO5I29
▶︎ Genuine Honda Upper Chain Guide - amzn.to/2RnsaHL
▶︎ Genuine Honda Adjustable Lower Chain Guide - amzn.to/2PeeKec
▶︎ Genuine Honda Fixed Lower Chain Guide - amzn.to/2Pa7csZ
▶︎ Genuine Honda Timing Chain - amzn.to/2ON7Gq7
▶︎ Hondabond Gasket Maker - amzn.to/2Rf53Ph
▶︎ Permatex Gasket Maker - amzn.to/35XfaMQ
▶︎ NGK IR Spark Plug Set - amzn.to/3rbW6rU
THINGS TO DO
Remove Passenger Wheel
Remove Valve Cover
Unbolt and relocate Power Steering Pump
Unclip and relocate Power Steering Reservoir
Remove Passenger Side Engine Mount
Support Engine by the oil pan with a Jack
Remove Serpentine Belt
Remove Crank Pulley & Keyway
Remove Timing Chain Cover
Replace Timing Components
Seal Timing cover and install in reverse order
///// TORQUE SPECS \\\\\
VTC Actuator Mounting Bolt to Camshaft ▶︎ 83 ft. lbs
Exhaust Camshaft Sprocket Mounting Bolt to Camshaft▶︎ 53 ft. lbs
Reusing Crank-pulley bolt ▶︎ 36 ft. lbs + 90 degrees
New Crank Pulley bolt ▶︎ 130 ft. lbs, remove it, then 36 ft. lbs
Chain Guide Stationary Bolts ▶︎ 9 ft. lbs
Rotating Hex Chain Guide Bolt ▶︎ 16 ft. lbs
Upper Timing Chain Guide Bolts ▶︎ 16 ft. lbs
Auto-Tensioner Bolts ▶︎ 9 ft. lbs
Timing Case Bolts M6 ▶︎ 9 ft. lbs
Timing Case Bolt M10 ▶︎ 33 ft. lbs
Side Mount Bracket Mounting Bolts ▶︎ 33 ft. lbs
Engine Mount Bolts ▶︎ 40 ft. lbs
Spark Plugs to Cylinder Head ▶︎ 13 ft. lbs
///// STAY UP TO DATE WITH ME BY FOLLOWING MY \\\\\
CZcams Channel ▶︎ / milanmastracci
Instagram ▶︎ / milmast
Facebook Page ▶︎ / milanmastracci
If you have any additional questions, feel free to send me an email at milanmastracci@gmail.com. Be sure to tag me on instagram @milmast with your projects. Thank you so much for watching!! - Auta a dopravní prostředky
"The Mini over there, that's another issue on it's own." - words of every Mini owner ever
Sideways G “if there’s no oil under a mini it’s because there’s no oil inside it” -guy from our car group that owns one
Mini is just Great Value brand BMW
Brandon Beach that has similar expenses like a bmw
Every? F - Mini's are bulletproof. Prove me wrong. I do own a 265whp Mini (;
@Sideways G I have a 2010 mini S that I bought used. The previous owner bought it new and with in the first 100,000 km had it in the shop maybe 20 times for various problems. Now the only saving grace for him was that most of the work was done under warranty, otherwise it would have cost a cool $8 - $10 G's to fix all the issues. If you really want a mini lease it, DONT EVERY BUY ONE, DONT EVERY BUY A USED ONE. Its unreliable and costs alot in parts to keep it running after warranty runs out.
*Literally the most underrated Home Built CZcams channel. Your work, and thorough style of elaborating is Top Notch.*
💙💙💙
Tj hunt is better.
@@seanm.collins9888 nah
In Germany we have a saying: "Wer günstig kauft, kauft zwei Mal" which roughly translates to: "if you buy cheap stuff, you're are probably going to spend money twice", and i think this is beautiful
Is that why BMW charges 1000 dollars for an oil change in the United states?
The USA equivalent is literally "Buy cheap, buy twice."
Remember when you tried to raffle the accord 😂
Aye... it was a smart business idea on his part
Yeah buddy!! That was a awhile ago. New idea, LETS BUILD IT!!
@@milanmastracci you can buy my 2012 xterra S 4×4 manual transmission... with 318,000 miles on her
Can I K swap it? 😉
@@milanmastracci LS swap it inside 🤣😂
Will be nice to see how you did the valve adjustment. I have the same engine. Great video by the way! Very detailed.
Nvr go cheap for Alternator, engine and transmission related parts always go for Honda OEM, trusted for quality and reliability. The only things that can go cheaper probably those cosmetic stuff or the engine oil, if u want to keep ur car long enuf. Thank for the vid dude and I’m sorry for what had happened to ur car. All the best!
Never use cheap oil
I love to see you working on the Accord. By far my favorite type of videos from you :)
Then in that case, you're going to love what is coming!!
K20Z3 swaaaaapp
Ive never learned and understood so much about how engines work as I have from watching a handful of videos on this channel.
Happy to hear that! 🙌
Never cheap out on internals or anything that’s used to change the engine mechanically otherwise you’ll just end up making a mess. Good job man you were able to spot the problem
Good point I've just put the oem timing chain new guides and chain tensioner on my mini Cooper s r56
Good on ya Gary! You have nothing to worry about now 💪
Nice video brother, glad things weren't worse. Car sounds good, and nice carbon fiber pieces. Can't wait for the engine build!!
Thanks brother! I appreciate it 👊
Exactly what happened to me. Thanks for video. Re-doing timing chain again. I never by aftermarket again
Sorry to hear you had the same issue as me! Ya live and ya learn 😢
Great info Milan, lesson learned 👍👍 still loving the milmast outtro too 😜👍👍
Some things never change 😉
3:35 "That would not be a great time" when talking about timing chains and engine timing, it took me some time to understand that the quoted time has nothing to do with engine timing.
Great video and complete explanation. What scanning tool do you use?
Nice video and very helpful for the cheapout guys...you just don't. Although you can't skip a tooth unless your chain is old and stretched at least with 3mm and then the tensioner jumps out from the bed and starts to slaps freely than the chain starts to jumps and brakes the plastic from the chain guides and voala skipped tooth or broken chain. Otherwise the noise is from the chain slapping on the plastic of the tensioner side guide when the tensioner pulls back automatically the chain makes a belly on the same side which belly afterwards hits on the guide. Cheers
Great video. I’d love to see the basics of how to pull an engine down. Where do you start and how do you dismantle it, check major components, e.g. pistons, bearings and rebuild correctly.
Sounds good Lloyd! I'll keep that in mind :)
Lesson learned! 100s of thanks
I'm hoping you guys don't have to make my same mistake. A smart person learn from their mistakes. A smarter person learns from others' mistakes.
Learned that lesson as well all though I have great results with gates
Well done! I really enjoyed your video. I subscribed
Keep up the good work!
Your engine looks amazing and I don’t know much about engines.
Hi Milan great video. I got one question. So before you time both intake exhaust with the crank cogs, when the harmonic balancer is still on, is it necessary for the engine to be at TDC or can you just take off the harmonic balancer and continue on with timing the three cogs ?
Thanks, for the heads up
From being a 2002 to 2003 maxima i inew right away that wa s a tensioner issue. The infamous vq35de i run always had this issue because of a platic guid in the tensioner.
slaaaappin dat limiter like a true honda boy😂🤟
Is this guy a mechanic? Like does he do that for a living either now or before CZcams? Super intelligent
I'm not! I learned a lot on CZcams, learned a bit in school, but mostly it is from taking stuff apart and not being scared to learn how it works, even if I break it..
milanmastracci awesome man thanks for the reply! Love the videos and everything you’ve taught me over the years!
Would these parts work for my 09 tsx? Thank you for these videos man!
While doing your valve lash, if you rotated the crankshaft pulley the wrong way, what you are doing is depressing the auto tensioner. Then you started it and threw off the timing. I did the same thing I was fortunate not to ruin the engine.
Yes you are correct. The crankshaft should only be spun clockwise 👍
Whats the right way? Clockwise?
Looking at the motor from the right side, as millan was in the video?
Yeah clockwise. Raise the car take the tires off. Take out the spark plugs and make sure it dosen't go counterclockwise.
I feel the codes are good meaning I chuck it up to the bad timing. Reset then test drive. Just for a piece of mind, I would clean the MAF sensor. As for the last code (PO139), I would keep an eye on that sensor. All in all, you should be good to go.
What can you do to avoid chain stretch on your engine? Oil, etc?
Hi. What year and model of an old accord best for me to buy? Thinking of an engine easy to maintain and fix. What Automatic and stick shift you would recommend? Love Honda Accord coupe specially the 8th gen. Btw, your awesome! Thanks a lot.
When are you going to finish your mini?
By the way, looking forward to you diagnosing the fault codes. What unit are you using?
Where did you get the throttle body spacer? I can't find much aftermarket stuff for these. Injectors pump etc
I did the same job on my 09 Acura TSX. Works fine. BUT What I didn’t do was change my VTC actuator. Apparently it was highly recommended to do that job in conjunction with the timing chain. Now I have to tear everything apart again just to fix something I could have done the first time. The VTC Actuator makes a grinding noise when the engine is started. Im a little annoyed but it is what it is.
When you installed your rv6 down pipe on, did it throw a check engine light? If so, did you get rid of it with the ktuner?
I'd like to see how you cleaned the old Honda bond from the engine. The cover would be easy enough, but getting it off the engine looks quite difficult.
Great job
Thanks Ali! 👊
@@milanmastracci 👊
I know this is 3yr ago, but when you restarted the engine it sounded like your VTC actuator was bad also. You'd mentioned that it was replaced with an OEM unit. I wonder if the bad tensioner eventually caused premature damage to the VTC actuator.
Hey brotha i also have a 8th gen accord it’s the se model.i recently changed out oil and found metal shaving in it do you think it’s possibly the chain am actuated set up that’s causing that or piston rings?
So my '08 coupe has the same sound but on the OEM engine, if I replace the tensioner should I replace all of it??
@MilMast -- What parts brand did you use initially? I just tackled this job and had a hard time finding an OEM Honda tensioner (in stock). I was able to find one from Cloyes, which was made in Taiwan....so, that's what went into my gen 3 CR-V. Hopefully everything stays in good shape for you!
What are the tools that I need to do this job like all the tools Pacific for this
Timing chains dont have a service interval which is why a lot of companies have switched to them. What made you swap your chain/vtc actuator?
because he redlines it timing chains also strech over time and he did say he swapped it because it had 200000km on it
also the cam gears will make the chain skip teeth... look at the teeth on both ur intake and exhaust cam gear if they are round off then yes.... had a k24 come over with the intake cam gear teeth were worn out bad skip 90degree off from tdc... it bent some valves bad
How often you replace your engine oil? And what type of oil do you use? Your engine looks very clean for the mileage it have!
Believe me code P0102 and P0113 is the MAF. That is definitely a part you want to buy OEM as the IAT is built in. i went through 2 aftermarket MAF sensors before i figured that out!
Aftermarket tensioner is always risky. What kind of kit did you use?
The Aisin kit is the only non-OEM I'd use, and it really is OEM quality parts so...
For some toyota's Aisin is stock!
@@Zerinsakech Yep. Honda used to use some Aisin parts too. Idk if they still do.
did an ebay gold heat shield tape worth buying?
Bout time!
I ordered this kit 1 week before you posted this.... whoops
Also when I try to line the sprockets up tdc, they wont stay. They spring back into place. Am I missing something?
This is too weird. I had my time and replaced three years ago. And a couple weeks ago my V6 motor started making a noise like a rattling ticking noise. I had it towed to the shop that did the timing on it and come to find out the timing tensioner broke. They did not use Honda parts on replacing the timing. That’s kind of strange that your car did the exact same thing with aftermarket parts. I would love to hear back from you and chat more about it. Oh and you know they charge me $441 to replace the tensioner. I’m not about to pay that bill because it should not of broken in three years.
Yeah its crappy when they fail! Its a risk you take when you buy aftermarket parts. If you have any questions, feel free to email me at milanmastracci@gmail.com
Did the shop replace tensioner when they replaced belt ?
On honda I always replace tensioner with belt .
On Toyota's I check , but rarely it needs replacement.
On Honda's if the tensioner is NOT replaced it will fail before next timing belt replacement.
Only OEM parts for Honda timing components. It’s not worth going aftermarket
Show everything on the new motor set up! We wanna see all of it!
OEM always 👍
Hey like the channel. How did you get that afr and stuff to work? Did you have to install anything special. And where did you get that unit? Thanks in advance!
czcams.com/video/VtjSplyPJvU/video.html
@@milanmastracci ok. Thumbs up thanks! I have a 2ar-fe and a j35
Going through that myself on my c5 corvette crankshaft blew and I had to swap smh
Agh dude sorry to hear about that! Shit happens
Can’t beat oem in most cases!
Hi Milan! Great video's! One question that I had was if you wanted to just replace the timing chain tensioner, couldn't you just remove the inspection cover and replace it that way? Seems like the easiest way to do this???
If you just need to replace the tensioner, you are correct in tackling the swap that way. However if you need to change the guides, chain, and other internal parts, the timing cover and associated parts need to be removed.
You should do a review over the car do a walk around reviewing all the bolt ons and tune I have a i4 as well so I’d like to know lol
I'm down!
What about major after market brands like Cloyes Tensiner and chain for a Honda 2.4 engine 🤔
for my tucson 2007 i will use asin parts
I did the same with the tensioner on my subaru wrx, car didnt even start because it didnt build compression. Luckily nothing went wrong, i got a dealer tensioner and its been great since. 100% dont cheap out tensioners.
What brand was the aftermarket one?
Reason i ask is i am running a cloyes branded tensioner.
The tensioner was a part of this kit here: amzn.to/2DOG51w
@@milanmastracci thanks. That is reassuring. Btw update your Amazon review.
Edit:see you did already!
I've owned 3 Honda Accords since my first in 2001. I always wanted a 6Cyl, but I could NEVER understand why Honda used a rubber timing belt in what is supposed to be a high performance engine. I always bought 4 Cylinder engine Honda's because they had a timing chain. In your 1st timing chain video you did say you had a "Check Engine Light" after 200,000 miles. I've always traded mine in when they hit 7 years or 100k miles due to the extended warranty. Now I'm kind of stuck with my 2009 because Honda has discontinued the Coupes (Idiots). I've only got 68K miles so my engine is good for many years. When it comes to engines and engine parts OEM is the way to go. By the way, have you tried to put the 2011-12 Crosstour instrument cluster in your Honda? It's really nice and supposed to be a bolt in.
Nice rev limit rally :D
Gotta make sure VTEC still works 🤙
@@milanmastracci sounds good! 👍
I was always told, "buy cheap, buy twice". So it's oem parts for my cars.
It is for me too.. starting now 😉
@@milanmastracci so true especially for them vanos solenoids for my mini r56
I have something i would like to see. Do a engine rebuild on the accord accept stick it in the rear making it a mid engine car
On k motors the tensioner is always oem
Nice
Does this help with the vtc actuator noise on startup?
Joshua Balgrim, no you will have to replace the VTC Actuator gear.
10:09 That battery sounds pretty weak
Not sure if it's the battery, or the fact that I have about 15 feet of 0 gauge wire going from the battery in the trunk, to the starter in the engine bay.
@@milanmastracci Ohh maybe, the reason i pointed that out is because I have a 8th gen l4 aswell it doesnt even crank that slow at -15C. But i did upgrade to a 24F battery using hardware from the V6 (battery box)
Sorry if I missed it. Did the chain jump teeth on the cam gears or no? That sound would make me think it did
Yes it did. I don't know how it didn't kiss a valve, but she runs mint now.
I gotta change the tensioner on my car
It’s been a long since you uploaded I hope everything is fine buddy
Been busy with school! Back to the grind for a month before classes start back up :)
milanmastracci when will you graduate ?
This coming April if everything goes to plan 🤞
milanmastracci nice man. I graduated this year in may and got myself a big boy job. You gonna go full time CZcams?
Congrats man! I'm hoping so 🙌
Please which engine oil do you use that your engine is looking so clean at 200k . Thanks
Anything synthetic, and oil changes every 5000km/ 3000miles.
@@milanmastracci Thanks
at least you didnt skip a tooth, good job fixing that btw
How long did it take you to do all this not including the overnight seal dry time?
Considering I had to do a bit of recording here and there, it took longer than normal, but you should be able to do this in an afternoon 👍
@@milanmastracci . Thank you so much for the reply! Cheers!
#MILMAST Honda Genuine or nothin! Looking forward to your swap video on this car!
That makes two of us 👊
Engine internals i never cheap on them, i just rebuild my K20 with Honda Genuine OEM parts, new timing chain, 3 guides,1 tensioner and oil pump chain 1 guide 1 tensioner, fix my problems and never headache at 200’000km
My timing chain broke. My first car ever and now I need to fix it. Dumb question cause I really dont know but I want to find out how many gaskets are needed to be replaced if the chain broke and the car immediately shut down. What do I check if there is any other damage??
Kadrina Payton for the timing Chain replacement you won’t need gaskets. All you need is Honda bond ( or the black stuff he used). You will need to re-seal the timing chain cover and the oil pan.
So what about top dead center ?
TDC FTW
Would you say a k tuner v2 is better than hondata flash pro for 2012 si
100%. I've never contemplated switching because of how much I love mine! I made a video about it. Check it out: czcams.com/video/VtjSplyPJvU/video.html
Have you had any issues with a grinding sound at start up?
Not after I replaced the VTC actuator last year. czcams.com/video/wulDUkpokjY/video.html
Omg thank you so much!!! This is a big help! 👍🏻
Hey Milan I have an 08 si k20z3. My car has the same idle if not similar idle sound that yours did with the fault tensioner. The sound is only there once the engine is warmed up and if I press the clutch peddle in the sound goes away. I’m thinking it’s a worn throw out bearing. Any thoughts on this?
Its hard to say what it can be, as it could be countless things. Throw out bearing could be a possibility. Hav you considered taking it apart to inspect it?
@@milanmastracci I haven't considered taking it apart yet because its my daily and it drives ok. I would like to do a clutch job and replace everything while i'm in there but I'm not sure when.
Damn the K24 is so simple to work on I have the J35 no performance parts at all for the j35 at all
The Tensioner you took off possibly had worn teeth and weak spring as its just a cheapie unbranded hit and miss product, racing tensioner is an option, there is a lot of information on Honda tensioners and their problems with aftermarket camshafts, reputable companies who make quality so called aftermarket parts are the ones who make OEM parts as well.
How much horse power does that engine have now?
I NEED HELP I have the same problem... my car struggles to run at idle but with gass it runs COMPLETELY fine my car didn’t skip a tooth unless it wouldn’t run at all right ?
Do you have a check engine light? If so, what codes do you have?
Actually if it skips a tooth it'll either be advanced or retard the timing, if it skips 2 teeth, that'll makes parts meet
Any plans for the old engine after you replace it??? Do you have a link for the front main seal??? Roughly how long does it take to do this???
Probably gonna sell it. Not quite sure yet :)
@@milanmastracci If you're in the Chicago area, I might be interested. What year is your Accord?? I have a 2012 Crosstour (same car)
I do realize you have a chain whereas my mk3 has a belt, but is yours a spring or thermotensioner like my factory one was originally, my new one is fixed in place
I guess, fuck it, right?
Its amazing that a car guy knows enough to buy a Honda, but then seems to forget it all and buys a Mini. Maybe you have 2 personalities Milan - the smart one that buys the Honda and the BDSM-loving personality that buys the Mini.
Just curious. Why not a J swap. Instant 270hp? While it's out, add a some induction... ?
I thought timing chains don’t need to be replaced like a timing belt🤷🏼♂️ or should u service it after 100k. Please lmk.
Timing belts should be done every 60k miles. Chains should be inspected at 100k miles and change if need be. I swapped out last year as I had a stretched chain.
milanmastracci gotcha gotcha. My 4.0 Tacoma has a chain. U think wheeling it hard on off-road terrain would wear the chain out or nah
I don't think it would, but I may be wrong. I'm not gentle on my cars. I redline them EVERY time I get in my car. If they're designed to hit 7k RPMs, I'll make sure of that lol I think what makes them go is constant load on them. if you accelerate lightly, you aren't putting much load on them. However, if you're mashing your accelerator pedal all of the time, that is much harder on the chain and will eventually cause it to stretch. Frequent oil changes also helps prevent wear 👍
Timing belts on V6 J series accords are 90-105k interval replacement
Most timing belts now are 100K interval, I believe primarily because California mandated all manufacturers had to have a belt that would last 100K minimum. That said, I would still personally change any timing belt a bit earlier. Timing chains are typically rated to 100K before inspection like he said. Plenty of engines have chains which will last 200,000 to 300,000 miles, but some are much less reliable, usually due to a poor guide or tensioner design, not the chain itself. Just do some research on whichever vehicle you own!
Do you have a video on valve adjustment? I did mine twice on a k24 motor and I still think that clearances are not set up correctly. You have to bend the filler gauge to get it in and they say you should only go straight in. Any tips on how you did it? If you set it correctly using 0.008” gauge then you should not be able to insert a 0.009”?
I do not, however I will be doing a full adjustment when I build my other engine. First thing to note is ONLY rotate your engine via the crankshaft. Secondly, I removed the electrical harness attached to the fuel rail to give me more space. I then used the bent feeler gauges and used the specs in the Honda service manual. I noticed the intake valve gaps were tighter than spec, and the exhaust gaps were larger than spec. Using the specialty tool really helps in getting the fitment accurate. This is the exact tool I bought to get it done: amzn.to/2DMJL3S. I did it in the same way as you mentioned.
I’ve rotated it using a big wrench on the camshaft. Will try to re-adjust again using the crankshaft. Were you able to get the filler gauges in at a straight angle. I had to do some on an angle and I feel that that’s why they’re not set properly
And did you adjust as per the firing order? Some guys adjust only when top of the lob is pointing up
I tried with the straight feeler gauges, but didn't like how you couldn't get a clear measurement with them so I switched to the angled ones. I only did the adjustment when the cam lobe was facing away from the valve to ensure it the best adjustment.
So you didn’t follow the manual and adjusted both intake and exhaust as per the firing order. I think I’m going to try your way and adjust only when lobe is opposite of valve. What brand aftermarket axles did you use before? I saw your video with raxles but they’re so expensive to ship to Canada (Hamilton). My Acura Tsx steering wheel vibrates due to worn inner joints. Thanks for replying really appreciate it.
Why did you need to change the timing chain and tensioner with relatively low miles? 200k kilometers on a k Series engines is pretty low for a service like that.
I swapped it out at 196k kms, but replaced it with an aftermarket kit.. Note to self, don't! If you're going to replace it, replace it with the Genuine Honda parts.
Yeah OEM is definitely the way too go for engine parts.
The question is what are the telltell signs that you need to change your timing chain?
I thought withcars (unlike motorcycles) the chains were solid for the entire cars life
Time for a K24A Swap !
Hehe 😏
milanmastracci 🤔🤔🤔
I ordered some non oem parts for my suspension...yeah never doing that again... guna order oem from now on
Unfortunately, we have to learn some things the hard way 😭
Would of been interesting to do a compression test.
Its not too late 👍
What tuner is that ?
czcams.com/video/VtjSplyPJvU/video.html