The Inversion of Masculine and Feminine in Popular Culture | Furman College talk
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2018
- We see an increasing trope in popular culture of inverting the masculine and the feminine. Traditional symbolism of the church offers a powerful and beautiful alternative to this war of the sexes.
This talk was given at Furman University on Sept. 10th, 2018 and was sponsored by the Orthodox Christian Fellowship.
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All men in comedies have become Homer Simpson
The Honeymooners Ralph was a big idiot, but he was in charge.
Modern tv and movies have Ralph but have removed all decision making power from men, given it to women, and if the man does make a decision, he will always be wrong.
Typical gynocentric tropes to push an agenda.
They even appear in things that aren't meant to be
comedies. It doesn't work, but they keep doing it.
Doh!
Almost seems that a seed of self doubt was sown by someone/thing or agency.Deep in the psyche of humanity to destroy it by, long term atrophy !and self doubt while not being the suspected.
True... Fry in Futurama is a doofus, in Family Guy Peter is a f*wit, Quagmire is a sexual deviate, Joe is a cripple, Chris is a dummy, Stewie is effeminate, the balanced male is a dog, in American Dad Stan is also a f*wit, Steve is a dweeb, his friends also nerdy dweebs, Jeff is a whimp, Roger is a psychopath, the male voice of reason is a fish, in Modern Family both male leads are weak and intimidated by their wives, the other couple is gay and somewhat dysfunctional, in Rick and Morty Jerry is a whimp and idiot, Morty is insecure, Rick is a psychopath, the list goes on and on.
Third Wave Feminism is toxic feminity that seeks to distort BOTH genders. All part of the New World Order Agenda to subdue humanity.
This finally helps explain to me why, as a “liberated” woman, I was always annoyed by the whole “Girl Power” movement - on girls tshirts, chapter books, cartoons, etc. The implication was that this “power” came from exhibiting traditionally masculine traits like being good at math or science or sports or leadership. Sure, that’s great, but why not celebrate the feminine power of empathy, kindness, nurturing, protection, endurance, etc? Now THAT would be revolutionary.
Revolutionary indeed! We're on angry, hateful, violent, spiteful, selfish, narcissistic times.
Well you’re right that feminine traits are not being celebrated, but empathy and kindness and so forth I’m not sure are specifically feminine traits. Those all seem best embodied in Jesus who as an ideal is certainly a masculine ideal. I think one should look at real women for thier strengths. Loyalty, practicality, patience, agreeableness (which is not exactly the same as empathy but which Aristotle himself calls a virtue). One ought also to look to the Tao Te Ching I think for a clearer idea of the feminine. As one who lets things flow through and over her. That would have made a much more compelling sort of female Jedi Tao mistress who learns the art of emptying herself to let the force flow through and direct her, who can seem to be defeated, but through whom the force triumphs. Not merely enduring but really falling, not to be reborn but to give way, like water. Water does not endure, it flows.
Look at Mary also. The Holiest woman ever to live, and what did she do? Almost nothing that history remembers. She consented to be the bride of God. She carried God within her. Let Him flow through her. And notice how she commands Jesus. When she wants Him to do something and Be objects, she commands the servants to obey Him, trusting that He will do as she asks despite His words. And who else ever had so much power to persuade God? She makes no entreaties, no promises, no reminding Him of His love for mankind as Moses did. She simply asks and then hands all power over to Him. And that act of trust and submission in itself seems enough to summon a miracle, even from a reluctant God.
I think under any circumstances feminine virtues will and ought to look like weakness and foolishness in public life. It is only reality that bears them out. And it bears them out unnoticed, and unappreciated. You should not be surprised that Hollywood can do nothing with it. Feminine virtues will seem like weakness. They will seem insulting if anyone dares to talk about them. And this constitutes another trait of femininity, mystery or furtiveness. It is inalienable to the female identity. And this is something that will never get past a budget committee or a script proposal.
FEMINISM IS TRANS . gender stereotyping is a dead end convo. unless men or boys really want enjoy love CASTRATION or masochistic.perversion of being seen as a EUNIC. girls cannot grow nor fake a REAL phallic. ❤
It's funny how the kick ass female characters are also beautiful and feminine and not massive butch beasts. They want to have the best qualities of both male and female.
Feminism always wants the advantages of men the privileges of women and the responsibilities of neither.
Let’s use a clichè properly: they want to have it all.
@
That is an incomplete sentiment,
More accurate would be, they want to have it all except responsibility.
They want the best, but what they end up with is the worst of both
Like a 5”5 fucking model with a fat ass and a perfect face is gonna take down 6”2 man of pure muscle let a alone take down the average man 5”9 and not be some sort of freak of nature 😂😂 it’s fucking hilarious
Equality in value does not mean equal in attributes
But a culture awash in superficiality will treat those like they are the same.
@@roberthayes7737 that's why we must remind ourselves at every chance we get
🎯👏🏻
Heroic women are selfless it's just a premise we assume to be true, because a good mother is that as a base. Heroic women point out when men are being selfish and that's how they become heroic men. Hollywood is like nah, lets prove that women can be even more selfish than villainous men.
Attributes certainly define ones value sooooo different attributes different values.
Do the creators of these movies and stories actually think women are so weak that men need to be made into incompetent fools in order for them to compete? The feminine can be incredibly powerful and influential in it's own way, as Jonathan points out, without needing to adopt masculine traits. Men will die for women. That sounds like a lot of power to me, and a lot of responsibility on their part.
@bizkitgto Its in the Talmud, the Torah and the Communist Manifesto.
Yes, they do.
baetaeF8 well said
Men will gladly die to protect a woman. Women will gladly die to protect a child. I think the only disconnect is that a woman will not gladly die to protect a man. But, I suppose Nature worked it out that way with purpose. I can be very anti female at times, but ultimately there is A Plan, and women are subject to these forces as well. Still, wish I was taller, so I could be a part of That Plan....
Ryan Bothun it’s very purposeful
Old Star Wars movies: Will Luke suceed in bringing his father to the light before its too late? Or will he fail, falling to the dark side himself and plunge the galaxy in darkness?
New movies: Can Poe get along with his new boss?
Puff Ball lmao that’s so true though
Im juuuust saying..if you replace “the dark side” with “toxic masculinity” this narrative doesn’t seem as crazy. I still don’t like it, though
F**k disney. :(
The irony is the best part of the new trilogy is by leaps and bounds, the perfect goddess failing for a bad boy. It's written like a smutty novel, and it's the only part of the movies that work.
I think Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor are loved because the theme of maternal love is what motivates their characters. These women don't face their dragons (Alien Queen or T-1000) because they're BAMFs. They face them to rescue/protect their child, which is something meet can understand and respect. They don't try to supplant the male protectors. They step up (transcend using your term) when the male is overwhelmed by the circumstances.
What a terrific assessment, because I reserve those 2 heroines as my favorites.
Positively Transcendent 🙏🏻
Screw Ripley, Vazquez was 🔥🔥🔥
I was Sarah Connor last Halloween. You hit the nail on the head!
Cool idea
Marc Lawrence wrote the screenplay behind the film _The Rewrite_ in which Hugh Grant plays a washed-up former Hollywood screenwriter who gets a teaching position at a progressive college. The film contains these words from Grant's character:
"Just honestly, everything seems to be about female empowerment nowadays. You know, any meeting I go to in Hollywood someone says 'You know what we need? A kick-ass girl! That'll be a great twist.' Except _every_ movie has a kick-ass girl. You know, some martial arts, CGI slow-motion woman who kicks the crap out of every man in her path. Can I tell you what would be truly innovative? A movie _without_ a kick-ass girl! Or better yet, a movie where a woman gets her ass kicked. [laughs]"
Awkward silence ensues. Pricelessly awkward scene.
Imagine that ?
Reminds me of a comment I said to my brother recently: "Have you noticed how women with guns are supposed to be sexy."
That's why I like the John Wick movies. John fights like 100 men to the point that he can barely stand, and he still beats the shit out of the main bad ass female assassin with ease.
They are movies were the women get their ass kicked.
A lot of invalid ground is covered by a feverishly protected class. People are afraid, today and in 1910, to say things like "A movie where a woman gets her ass kicked..." Women enjoy the overlapping protections of old paternalistic culture simultaneous with modern equality culture, not to mention pandering-I-wanna-get-laid-culture (older than any culture). When true feminism makes a move (where feminists fight for and get dangerous jobs and combat military service, and family law courts become just, and women convince men to become sexually honest and behave in such a way that this honesty is a good decision on a man's part, and women want men not only to be involved in child rearing but make room for a man's child rearing dreams as opposed to wanting them to be a potted plant in the corner with no say)(that's right, I have a grudge...) women are going to find themselves out on a fragile, invalid, limb. Women are increasingly unegalitarian in their view of the precise ways in which the world should part before their emotional and material feet. It's at a breaking point. The costs for men have exceeded the benefits to a degree that they now can feel it and see it.
But so true.
Feminism in media is like death by a thousand cuts
I am so so glad that the likes of you are thinking and speaking about this stuff that has bothered me personally for a few years now. You’re helping me articulate my own ideas on these matters and giving me terminology as well. I cannot express the full depth of my gratitude in words.
because for the first time, women can now get enough of a voice to defend themselves after millennia of catastrophic and savage violence at the hands of (in the west) the brutal, evil, pedophilia loving cult of jesus, so the 'war of the sexes' has been going for millennia, with extreme violence used to force women to be 'feminine' now they have a choice and are saying 'NO!'
@@justicar5 That is not correct. Human history contains it ALL. What about the king that protects the land? The men that go down with the ship to save women and children? You are an ideologue who cannot see the world for what it is. I am a modern American woman, the freest woman the world has ever seen.
@@justicar5 And who do women go to for defense, after things like rap or violence? They go to their male family members, male police officers and courts. In western society violenct towards women is not tolerated: just look at what happens to pedos and rapists in prison! Even degenerates of society do not tolerate it.
@@RunninUpThatHillh hahaha, you poor deluded foolm
@@justicar5 PLEASE Embrace ISLAM ! Just move to Somalia ~ so stupid ~ You imply the failures of the catholic cult as if it was the true face of Christianity how lame. so kill me
I've been watching this phenomenon in pop culture for about a year now. It's to the point were I can't enjoy or even watch mamy major film releases because the feminist theme is too annoying/distracting. When the Disney movie Maleficent came out I loved it. But when I watched it again recently it disturbed me. Every man in the movie is either servile, evil, or impotent. I see the effects these movies, and the brand of feminism they are part of, are having on the people in my life and it worries me about where our society is going.
Rockefeller is the Father of Feminism, another Trick of the Devil
'femdom', aka the male sexual fetish of powerful women dominating weak men, IS NOT FEMINIST.
As a Mothers we should Understand this, we want equality not to move the mocking over to the males we LOVE. I dont want MY SON growing up in this warped reality and told this is equality!
Yes yes yes!
well, on the plus side, it will give him some masturbation material...
Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that this is the representation of a male sexual fetish called femdom. It's not feminist.
My son is three, and don’t worry, I will raise with traditional male heroes :)
Wow. Jonathan, that gives me a lot of hope and space for vision. I am waiting for my husband to convert to Orthodoxy with me and it's been so hard to think through and understand how to "be" as the woman. I think, Esther is a great example for me. I will stop thinking about how to be the strong female leading her family into the Church (I also have four sons) and instead try to lay before my guys the enticing beauty of Christ and the life in the Church, practicing the secret arts of gentleness and loveliness and try to show a hidden way to enlarge his space. Thank you for offering me hope. I am going right off to look for your paper! 😁💗
This is such a beautiful comment and your heart for your men is incredibly inspiring!!! Thank you for sharing your thoughts!! 💕
The other day I was rewatching the POTC movies and I couldn't understand why I loved Elizabeth Swann in the first three movies and hated Carina Smyth in the fifth.
Now I know, it was because Jack Sparrow James Norrington Will turner were awesome in the first three movies and Sparrow and Henry Turner were useless in the last movie.
Degradation of the masculine, makes me automatically dislike the feminine as well for some reason.
Srijan Agrawal yes, indeed, I agree! It's just plain fishy
@Jonathan Neufeld That is very smart and very true.
Passion of the Christ of Pirates of the Caribbean?
@@MothMizzle "Jack Sparrow"
I just came out from seeing Toy Story 4, and it is UNBELIEVABLE how the patrons of inversion highlighted here fit perfectly in this movie. Pixar transformed Bo into a bossy, independent, badass character (in few words: she's not Bo anymore) ande Woody into a over-emotional, empty-minded, inept one. Ridiculous!
Sarah Connor in T2 is a woman who is out of balance. Kyle is gone, so she tries to assume both roles - masculine and feminine - and fails. The strain drives her insane, out of balance. Her body shows the evidence in the photo he shows - she has tried to shed her feminity while trying to shoulder the masculine protector role - "Linda, you're ripped to shreds."
Unlike Captain Marvel, Sarah is not presented as fearless. Right after she’s just broke out of the asylum room in a bad ass way, she bumped into the T100 in the corridor. Her initial reaction is horrir and fear. She drops to the floor in hopelessness. This is pure vulnerability. She’s not presented as invincible, so you can relate to her more.
"The problem is not that one x, the problem is when x becomes a pattern" -i'm sorry but this is too good of an argument. i'm gonna steal this.
-oh, i'll steal the "celebrating" argument too. this must be very effective on groups.
I see it as a matter of scale. One person runs a red light traffic still moves, 100 people run a red light...well. or vaccinations, 1 kid not having it's fine when half the population doesn't....well
What do you mean, @Jonathan Neufeld ?
This was a very well made lecture. Im starting to really appreciate the deep meaning of classical religious art the more I learn about symoblism. Great work!
EVERYTHING he says is TRUE. This nonsense is all over the place. All the heroes are warrior women and the men are all portrayed as wimps and idiots.
The queen makes the king the king makes the kingdom.
Men have traditionally always taken the *responsibility* for leadership in public roles and in business, because that responsibility comes with danger. A political or business leader who made bad decisions would be shamed and in olden days maybe run out of town on a rail (read up on what that actually entails - it's horrendous torture). There was a society-wide agreement that women should not be exposed to such danger - they were far too valuable for the raising and nurturing of the children (the future). But when those great public figures came home, the woman ruled the roost, then as now. Think about the nervous jokes - "she who must be obeyed" or "I gotta ask the boss". Everybody laughs but knows it's really true (and that you don't talk openly about it in polite society), and often the woman will laugh in a very wicked way and say something like "Oh, you had BETTER obey.. "
It's spelled out in the movie The Searchers. The cowboys are as tough and ruthless as the Indians when they're out on the desert, but when they return to the house, it's all "yes Ma'am" and "no Ma'am", and if any of the young men fail to comply with this they get threatened into it (or beaten if they still refuse). That iconic shot of the doorway - dark and domestic inside and outside glaring heat waves of the desert representing the harshness of the man's world. Symbolic representation of the two different worlds, the masculine public sphere and the feminine domestic sphere.
Look for these PDF books online: 'The Anatomy of Female Power' by Chinweizu and 'The Manipulated Man' by Esther Vilar. They openly discuss the taboo subject of the society we live in, which is patriarchal publicly but matriarchal domestically.
Interesting comparison to "behind every great man is a great woman" I like it.
Well then just look around... ??
@Jane Doe why do you want to see any more or any less? I want the most capable in any field. Regardless of who it is. And what do you mean to lead exactly.
and all the peasants starve
I think Sarah Connor in Terminator and Terminator 2 is an example of an inversion of masculine and feminine done very well.
In the original Terminator, Sarah's is a Damsel who has a Dragon coming to kill her and a Knight coming to save her. The Knight doesn't lack for masculine virtues of courage or strength, but he is by no means perfect in his quest. The story doesn't objectify the Damsel either, she is the central character and lacks neither agency nor individuality, and she serves a strong feminine role in the story, acting as healer, advisor, and motivation to the Knight. If this were the Knight's story it would be a heroic or epic tale, but since it is actually the Damsel who carries the narrative focus, it's a horror or thriller type of tale (since that would be a very scary situation to be in, from her perspective).
In Terminator 2 Sarah has changed radically. So traumatized by the events of the first movie, she is 110% convinced that her son needs, more than anything else, a powerful protector and mentor, i.e. a father-figure. But since no one will believe her about the whole time-travelling robot nightmare she went through, or the coming future that only she knows about, she is forced to become that father-figure to her son herself, and does so to such an extreme degree that she fails to be a mother-figure to him, with severe consequences to the relationship between herself and her son.
I think this is a very interesting masculine/feminine inversion, since Sarah's shift is shown to have both good and bad aspects to it. In T2 she is strong, courageous, and terrifyingly badass, but her lack of feminine temperament precipitates the rift we see between her and her son and hinders her ability to heal that rift as the movie progresses.
nailed it
I was perplexed watching The Last Jedi. Poe leads a mini rebellion against Vice Admiral Holdo, because she does not seem to have a plan other than to run away. Poe's mutiny fails and Holdo puts him in his place. The perplexing thing is Vice Admiral Holdo did not have a plan. Almost everyone she was meant to save was killed. They were surrounded and the Empire was about to mop them up. A handful of stragglers were saved by Rae and Luke's projected image, an Ex Machina device. So why was it good that the female Vice Admiral slapped down the little male upstart? His plan may not have worked, but it could not have been anymore incompetent than the Vice Admirals.
Why has it taken CZcams years to bring me this channel? I only found it through a search of my own?
Your on the right track by incorporating biblical perspective within these patterns. There is so much more as to why this is happening.
Can you explain further? Thanks
@@dariofromthefuture3075 Marx was an apostle of Satan, and the genealogy of leftist intellectuals since has been a sort of clergy. They sew the spirit of Cain and teach people to crown themselves, deny confession, and externalize blame. This subversion is a masterpiece of evil and is done to spite God. It's been going on since the fall, but has gotten significantly worse since Satan's surreptitious scriptures have been written in the guise of atheistic socioeconomic theory. The dialectic continues...
I'm glad I can learn more about my gender from a biblical perspective and it's not domineering and rude. Everything he says has so much truth in it that resonates so deep within me.
Thank you sir for your lecture.
I’ve followed these changes to mostly masculine activities like video games and I’ve heard nothing good. The women pushing it are aggressive and can be quite nasty. Plus, these projects are often financial failures. I see it as more nonsense from “social justice warriors.”. There really isn’t much demand for these things, and the whole trend will fail in the long term. I am a woman myself but video games don’t appeal to me. Still, I worked for decades in a male-dominated tech field and that went fine (now retired).
No, you’re not exaggerating at all. My son who does like video games confirms everything.
It's interesting. I read that final fantasy made some of their male main characters less masculine to appeal to both sexes. These characters usually had weaknesses as well as strengths and were deep and complex. You would get a whole team of males and females with different strengths and weaknesses and they'd all compliment one another. The new star wars however is no where near as nuanced. There is no way that Rey, the female antagonist would lose, everything comes easy and make characters are treated as hapless buffoons. I think it's a shame as it could be well done. I'm seeing it across a lot of media now.
Romans 10:9-13
New International Version
9 If you declare(A) with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”(B) and believe(C) in your heart that God raised him from the dead,(D) you will be saved.(E) 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”[a](F) 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile(G)-the same Lord is Lord of all(H) and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord(I) will be saved
Satan knows that the man is the head of the family, He always does the opposite of what God intended for us.
@Dojocho nah.. it's just sin. Masons may wrap it up to look like ancient gnostic achieved wisdom but at the end of the day this feminism garbage appeals to the lust of the flesh: it's literally the exact same problems that have been haunting easily beguiled women and their their sinful husbands who listen to them since page 3 of the bible.
@@inTruthbyGracewhy does god hate women?
@@liz.217 what makes you imagine God hates women? you've probably never given birth if you'd ask such a silly question.
When we think we posses the power we lose it. That's what's lost in this age of empowerment. What is lost when we fall for such a diabolical ego trip? Sweet harmony
This is so brilliant and needed. Women now are utterly misled by popular cultural diminishment and underestimation of the beauty and wisdom of the divine feminine. I loved what he said about the undervaluing of the private space, the home, the place of intimacy and caring. Whats more, when you are in touch with the immense power of this archetype, men are drawn irresistibly, as they are so hungry for it. Please, women, reclaim the equal power and beauty of your divine nature!
The divine doormat.
Nail on head. Sunk in one. You get it
Look at all the hyper patriarchal societies: aborted females, honour killings, acid disfigured women. Yes, let's become more patriarchal.
My sister and I watched the my little pony cartoon and the male character was disheveled, belittled, seemingly dizzy/sleepy, and had very few speaking lines. It was atrocious. We couldn’t believe it. The female characters would literally cut the only male character off while he was speaking and snatch things from his hooves while he was looking at them, it was nuts. There is certainly an agenda. I do not believe patriarchy is inherently bad and i believe that men should be our leaders. It’s disheartening to know that men are being discouraged from their role which is pivotal to our existence as human beings as well as our safety as a nation. Keep doing what you’re doing. You’re spot on.
Rey from Star Wars carries a phallic staff all the time everywhere. Just saying.
What jedi DOESNT?!
@@consciousgentile5141 None, really. I was talking about the staff we see in TFA (before she got hold of Luke's lightsaber) and then she systematically carries it. It's very clearly a subconscious representation of the penis she symbolically posseses.
@22:04 Sarah Connor is a unique female character in that she is as you show her in a state of evolution. In the first film, she was a normal 80s girl who “couldn’t t balance her check book.” She’s faced with a great enemy, and a protector, and through that journey she embraces her role as a mother to the savior of humanity(John). How you see her in the picture, is after she’s spent a great deal of time learning the skills to impart to John to survive in the future. She’s not masculine, but she is dangerous, and this is highlighted by the yin-yang of the addition of Arnold himself, who was more of a father to John than anyone, personifies masculinity at zenith levels(unyielding drive, ungodly strength, restraint[minigun scene], and self-sacrifice for the family).
I enjoyed the talk, but this was something special I wanted to address.
Well said/ good point.
Johnathan Pageau is the real world version of Professor Langdon aka Tom Hanks from the Davinci Code! What a Boss!!!
Probably dislikes the book. (It sucked).
Men are men .. women are women... in a fight with no rules I'll always put my money on a man.. in most sports I'd put my money on man... when it comes to a court case that's when women got my money...
Courts in womens favour.
This is GRRRREAT! I’ve watched half and can’t wait for the rest. But it’s bedtime. Thank you, Jonathon!
So grateful for your thoughtful work. Thank you for posting!
Just found you! Love your content, exactly what I have been looking for as a person who is Christian but also heavily interested in symbolism, mythology and esoteric topics. I have noticed this in almost all movies lately and it’s terrible. The great example of the feminine and masculine power working together is Neo and Trinity in the matrix, she helps awaken him to himself. She is strong, but she doesn’t overpower or weaken him.
God bless you and I look forward to becoming more familiar with your work!
When feminists start to realize they have been praising masculinity with their portrayals this whole time :D
10/10. You really stuck the landing.
Of your many videos I've listened to this was the most profound for me.
I found it very striking when you mentioned the Trojan War and the Greeks taking the name Hellenes, and your point really came home in my mind.
Also, I agree with your point that it's not the individual stories but the patterns. I think TV shows have been the worst "offenders" in this regard. I particularly noticed this because the two major fathers in my life, my dad and that of my best friend, were always super competent and capable men in and outside of the house.
Thank you for another great video, and I'm glad to hear you've had some increased success. I'm really looking forward to that graphic novel.
I think it needs to be made clear that these forms of observation are not blatant resentments for strong female archetypes in culture. It's just that their male counterparts are being diminished at the same time.
For one, I am a fan of Alien. Now that is a female that starts off a scared soul who gains confidence and strength through adversity. By the time of Aliens, she is an absolute badass! That is how the hero's journey should be done...because that's how it's really done.
"Transcendence is not the same as confusion..."
This is a very important point. We have not overcome the oppression of traditional gender roles, we have only introduced more chaos and complexity into the problem.
Really, in what world do you live in? So I can move there and be my own Man. The obliteration of traditional gender roles has been in the works for decades by means of chaos and complexity to create confusion.
satan always inverts.
Plato - 'Those who tell the stories rule society.'
'Culture is difference'
- René Girard
The more I learn about history/psychology the more complex this male/female distinction becomes in our rapidly evolving tech-centic culture.
The traditional route through life is seemingly becoming obsolete bc of tech and wealth, but if its up to individuals to create a new route, thats a lot of subtle wisdom that may be lost in the fire.
Thanks for making an argument for the tradition, and not simply appealing to emotion, Johnathan.
The more I learn about history and psychology, the more I can see what a mindboggling mess we're in as a species. But yeah, 'male' and 'female' just are two words we use to describe two ideas about the metaphysics of life as we observe it. What makes the distinction complicated is that the ideas of male and female were conceived way before we had even begun to build a collective understanding of what anything at all is, let alone what a male or female is; having words for a thing is not to have an understanding of a thing. So we've been left with all these conflicting and contested ideas about the masculine and the feminine without an informed and well-reasoned understanding of them and I think that's caused at least a little of the above mentioned mindboggling mess we seem to inhabit.
I think it is just in cases such as yours, Jane, to make an exception for the role which you find suits you best, but the fact that you personally eschew a traditional role does not mean we should replace / overturn traditions which have served us en masse.
Women who don't want to rear humanity and direct human evolution shouldn't. There are lots of other equally important things to be done. The world is a big place. But for the women that want to do it - good. It MUST be done. And it shall be discusssed.
"You've got to think for your selves! You're ALL individuals!" - Brian of Nazareth
Jane Doe...I know very religious women dedicated to the 'traditional' role of wife and mother...But they are modern women as well...Working outside of the home with other strong interests. It's not like 'traditionalism' has to trap anyone. Only if one is brought up narrowly, to not trust, and believe in themselves (while possessing humility) in this world -that is the great suffering.
MEN ARE WONDERFUL PEOPLE!!!! NO WORRIES, I ONLY HAVE ONE.😍😍
WE ALL HAVE OUR STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES. WOMEN ARE CONFUSED ABOUT WHO CAN DO A BETTER JOB AT BEING A MAN?????
Wow, i like that, i am going to use that last line when in conversation with the women who need it.
Women can do what men can, and men can do what women can (except give birth). But not all the time. Strength isn't a monopoly of either sex. Both have their strong suits. :)
Dude I’ve seen your videos before but holy smokes here you are really on POINT. I’m a huge fan of your work now. Thank you for your honesty, bravery, and gentle manner of speaking. You rock. I’m gonna find your patreon if you have one soon
THIS IS AWESOME ! Thanks for the explanation, and the nice presentation.
This man has changed my life! He has aided my understanding of reality, religion, orthodoxy, tradition etc. and perhaps, ironically, been the feminine space of opportunity to open me up to Christ.
Thank you. Finally someone is talking about something I've been seeing for a while now. This drives me crazy.
Great job Jonathan! You've really done well with your public speaking cutting out the "um" and "okay"s and it's made a huge difference for me as a listener.
Watching three years later and it has only been presented more and more.
Jonathan Pageau you grasp it PERFECT!
"..She is the Space of which something is happening.."
The feminine Power is the Power of Opening-UP^ Possibilities
Finally, a college that don't try to destroy masculinity
Really enjoyed this Jonathan. Thank you. 👍🏻
I love the point about pointing to the beauty rather than simply pointing at the problem. Jonathan Pageau's radiant smile at that point! I found this channel via Jordan Peterson when things all blew up around him a couple of years ago and Mr. Pageau spoke to him about symbolism and the frog etc. I can't believe it's taken me so long to really listen to the man himself.
Thank you Jonathan Pageau. It must get frustrating: so few people seem to get how symbolism works. Btw you seem less comfortable in this forum - in your more intimate videos you are calmer and very easy to listen to.
Hey Jonathan, I think the example of The Incredibles 2 also shows that overemphasizing the female (and subsequently minimizing the feminine while aggrandizing the masculine) results in disaster. The villain in the movie could not be overcome until the male and female, the masculine and feminine, once again reunited, and the product of their union, their children, saved the world.
I think the movie was still entertaining because it wasn't completely propagandist. The creative urge still leads the writers, directors, etc. to manifest archetypal patterns in spite of the propagandist urge by non-artists imposing their will on the development of the movie.
Great talk, loved the insight about the hidden patterns.
This work is so important. Thank you Jonathan
I knew there was a reason that Howl's Moving Castle was one of my favourite films.
The new Netflix show I-Land is a great example of this inversion. Netflix has many other shows pushing agendas.
Another fact. I've cancelled my subscription, as I realized Netflix was getting "woke".
Love this channel. Good view on something I could not place my fingers on. The message I get is we need a balance but that is one of the most difficult things to achieve.
That was really beautiful and insightful! Thank you.
I'm not a Christian and I don't belong in any religion, but the way you talk about this difficult issue and how you present things, is very likable and friendly. Keep up the good work! I also think there is no 'war of the sexes', it's all illusory and manufactured
Don't say feminine cast. All female cast yes, not feminine.
females cast is a stretch tbh - - real females don't usually have masculine bone structures but somehow almost every 'woman' in hollywood has a male bone structure
A really interesting talk, thanks for your work, I think we need this kind of points to be made.
Great lecture, really enjoyed it, well done!
I truly enjoyed this Jonathan. I was just talking to my husband and son last wk about the call to the feminine and to keep your eyes open. I know I am watching something unfold, just not too sure what it is yet. As for our use of stories and movies, the day before our father passed he warned us to pay attention to the movies,, they will show you where you are heading. I was never really a movie person, but finding myself paying closer attention the last few yrs. Thank you for this!
Minor note: Miyazaki's version of Howl's Moving Castle is amazing, but he didn't come up with the story. That accolade belongs to Diana Wynne Jones, a British novelist.
Modern feminism is rooted in the basic human tendency to covet that which we do not possess (but desire nonetheless). Differences are treated as inherently unfair instead of embodying complementary roles.
Great video! Thanks for the info.
Preach! I don’t agree with all of your claims about religion/god but this is right on the money. And most people don’t even realize that this is happening.
There seem many levels of female/masculine but in this level you have shown here is one that I think is very useful in todays idea-climate.
The male knight saves through killing a beast. To just get rid of the problem, to reduce evil.
The female maiden saves through transformng the beast and thus produces more good.
The archetypal female has within it the positive force to make things better. She is the principle that dont use force that don't have to kill.
And I think that "she is not the killer" fits in the mindset of today that can be a transition for many to start investigate the transendental Christian imagery (or what to call it?).
One thing i couldn't stop thinking about is that (just some crazy thought I have which I would be glad if I could get some feedback on if anyone who ever would like)
The mountain is male the place where the wind and the hermits live.
The valley is female, the place where everyone else live and where the feasts are held.
The female embrace the living, is the church where we commune.
The male is the sun, that which is shown in the open and scorches the earth when upset.
The female is the moon, that which is hidden, so whe have a hard time to understand how the day is populated.
The male, to be great, need to know the secrets of the night in order to rule the day.
Whithout his muse, what would he be?
Without her knight what would she be?
(This ofcourse is within the "cosmos" of St george and the Beaty and the Beast, Farytales and the mountain/valley thing is from Tao Te Ching but as I understand it it is within the same "cosmological" framework)
I don't really know what words to use here really. Cosmology, archetypal, transendental imagery I don't know.
I also think that you are getting better and better at formulating yourself. You are getting more clear and well defined.
In the beginning it was very muddled but man this was almos 100% one of your greatest so far!
Thank you very much!
One thing though, that I have not wrapped my head around is what you mean by when asked about what genders are an expression of. You answer that it is an expression of "the cosmos" and I think that statement is pretty vague and ill defined.
I think you might mean something along the lines of my "crazy thought" i presented up above here but I'm not entirely sure. You just state that as a fact and
Great many thanks
"The cosmos" as the universe is the "impersonal" face of the Logos.
Thanks for the answer.
One thing though: I've been on this journey, mabye it should be called a spiritual one, to learn who I am, about the world and how I fit into it.
I use the word "world" here, but not in the sence of the scientific world where certain atoms have ordered themselfes into grass or stones and where the thermo dynamics rule, but in the world where I resides and act.
For some years I have gone back to the Catholisism I grew up with, in a world where Christianity and particularly Catholisism is frowned upon greatly.
So I have not really anyone to butt heads with (have been thinking that I might go to some of the thursday discussion groups at the Church I go to) so the CZcams feed of some channels are the only places that I can discuss these things.
So we know where I come from: I don't know whether that answer made anything much clearer.
Is this "cosmos" the place where we resides and act?
I think so.
The place where the valley is the female aspect and the mountain is the male?
Seems possible to me.
And I don't know if I have really grasped the logos part in any shape or form worth of mentioning.
Might be something like: The ordering principle, the marchal that that points us onwards and upwards as a culture?
If so is logos not the same or the cornerstone of the "cosmos"?
But I'm not sure if I'm allowed to even speak of the logod at all, because I dont know it's root/genesis. Probably I should just go and read some Thomas of Aquinas.
Well thanks anyway :)
It's no problem. Cosmos is simply the entire created order (the universe and our place in it). Logos is indeed the fount of the created order of which we are a part, and is a Person.
Thanks.
Ya know...every now and then, one happens upon a comment that's a worthwhile find. Thank you for presenting one of those...it's appreciated!
Great talk ! Really enjoyed that .
Such an real phenomena man. Good work!
At the end of incredibles they snap out of the gender reversal and go back to their roots. Jack jack crying confirms her maternal instincts.
Well for me from reading mythology there is no heros journey for these females they are sprung with powers not even earning it unlike a demagogue like heracles who had to labor to even to get godhood.. And from what i have always noticed that most of these female protagonists are mostly ever based on destruction, adultery, or jealousy. Leading to them being precieved as evil pandora,the furies, aphrodite, the nymphs, Hera
First time I've heard this guy, so impressed. I rarely sub any channel, but I had to. Great stuff!
This is so beautiful! Tears in my eyes, deeply moved and inspired. Thank you Jonathan Pageau 🙏 All praise be to God
Ya know & Tomb Raider, Kill Bill, the African Warrior from Conan, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Halloween Series, (every horror movie), Le Femme Nikita, Alien Series, etc etc, etc there's been a shitload of strong feminine roles without the emasculation of Men.
Sorry, you need to take more Red Pills. You are not thinking deep enough. These tough women kill 99 percent men. Think about a movie if the lead man just killed women. How would you feel about that? The Femists would not like it! But a woman can kill as many guys as she likes and she is cool. The Feminists love that. That should tell you everything. Read more about the Red Pill dude. It may just save your life.
Ripley in Aliens.
@@jamestiberiuskirk3277 go outside
@@elsa-fn5cb Crime is not mass entertainment is it? But such entertainment can influence crime. So you mean that because some women are victims of crime at the hands of some men that it is OK to popularise and normalise mass media showing gratuitous violence by women solely against men? Like it makes it OK as payback? That is your rationale isn't it. The reverse would rightly not be publicly acceptable would it? I don't know any healthy men who would be really comedicly entertained by watching a movie about a bunch of guys enjoying repeatedly beating women's genitals and heads in with baseball bats and say it was liberating and call for a sequel to boot, as many Femists did with "Birds of Prey" Weird! You have a very worrying mindset indeed Harley Quinn! You should speak to somebody about that before YOU hurt somebody innocent.
It's all in the Protocols of Zion.
100% it is
About the Incredibles movie, Helen also destroy things, a building exploded, a train accident, tons of city damage at the begining of her comeback as hero while Robert is strugling with parenthood. But Bob excels, help Dash with his homework, Violet with her romantic issues and trained Jack Jack without getting in troubles like in the first movie when the kids evolution was forced by the circumstances. His agency make him a really good Dad while Helen was holding every one back (because she want them save but made them weak againts Syndrome and his foes). So Bob learnt to do things more calm and steady like Helen while she now knows that she ned to be more flexible with being more active and resolutive like her husband.
Thank you, Jonathan. You are helping people. Truly
You’re not alone I’ve been thinking this forever now...females that occupy male roles while simultaneously denying female roles...and this is somehow “empowering women”...and feminism...
They deny the idea of “roles” and instead explain the existence of gender roles as an artifact of a male dominated hierarchy...but this explanation is very poor because it implies circular logic where male dominated hierarchy is the origin of male dominated hierarchy. Basically how did the hierarchy exist in the first place? The logical answer is that the hierarchy isn’t established as an artifact of itself...but as an artifact of natural order...OR...there is no male dominated hierarchy and never was, in which case they have no argument...and can’t play the victim role to justify behavior that would otherwise be deceitful and unjust.
The victim role is essential to their entire philosophy...which is why they are so hellbent on promoting the idea...without the premise that they are victims the subsequent behavior would not be tolerated let alone welcomed in as the dawn of a “new” and better age...
As a woman, being hated by other women who like being men, who hate my idea of being just a traditional woman, yeah I 100% agree
And I’m only 21 😂
" Women are smart, men are stupid."
- Oprah's Dr. Phil baby from the Dave Chappel show.
Thanks for bringing clarity to this inversion. We all sense the imbalance but we didn't know how to properly describe this. The ancients knew balance was necessary and proper.
It’s fascinating to me that this information has been around for quite a while, i was 15 when this video came out and Im only getting to it now.
appearantly the best these women can up with, is acting like the men they so despise.
take from that what you will.
It's a real kick in the face to men, who are the main audience of action movies. I refuse to watch movies like that now.
I hear that, brother. I can't watch anything made after 2000 without seeing feminist indoctrination.
We have to power NOT to support this insanity with our dollars. Only when that happens I bet it would change in no time at all...Money is the key
Beautiful lecture! Totally 👍 ♥
Sweet!! Free University lecture on a real thorn in my brain from a BRILLIANT man!! We miss you “little” Kenny Elder, Paladin O-lineman early 80’s. Small world.
Great talk! You have probably touched on it elsewhere but why do women want to be more masculine? Due to power dynamics? Because I do believe that some men in positions of authority have abused their roles, especially with respect to women. So, could this inversion be a response to abusive men?
Simisola Oludare The women pushing these changes are a loud aggressive minority.
I believe it is. Women that were abused might conclude that femininity is dangerous.
That's exactly is
8:30 In reality, housework is overrated by women. It's so much easier. I've taken it over numerous times when my wife was sick, I took care of her and our eight children, and my own duties, and outperformed my wife. The most notable thing was that the children were very glad to have Mom back because Dad runs the home like a military camp when he has to do his own duties and Mom''s. If all I had to do was what the woman had to do, I would out perform her every time, but the kids would sorely miss mom's hugs. The part I find difficult is connecting emotionally. The work is light.
It's no slam on my wife, she is an amazing woman. I find her work utterly unfulfilling and boring. She loves it. That is what makes her amazing to me. She is soft and weaker than me. Her strength lies elsewhere.
I know right? All those Marxist SJW feminists did for women was destroy their personal pride and integrity. That is not just OUR home. It's their home too. Those kids are not just our kids. They're her kids too. These are the healthy things we work our asses to keep in our lives. NOT the newest cell phone. NOT makeup cases. NOT the newest car with the built-in voice-activator. NOT the newest TV. They made women weaker and stupider. They created a bunch of whiny consumers whose only loyalty is to the state or in this case, the corporate world providing them all of this BULLSHIT.
Dojocho I strongly suggest you get dressed. Walking around all day in your underwear not only sets a bad example for your child but erodes your self-esteem. Also please, for the sake of your child do something more constructive with them than putting them in front of the idiot box.
Best comment, hands down.
@Dimitri M, good one. Women don't own their shortcomings tho'.
You assume you did all of her work perfectly, but since it's not work you do regularly, you may have missed important parts if it and been completely unaware. Don't slap your own back so hard.
Thanks for sharing!
Very interesting points you raised here - you gave me a lot of food for thought. Thanks for sharing your insights - God bless
Lucifer: Welcome to my world
inversion is the devils work.
LOl
Check mr E transpocalypse. Your sexy feminine actor or star might not be.
Mama always said....
AND JESUS CHRIST ALREADY DEFEATED HIM AT CALVELRY WITH HIS PRECIOUS BLOOD.
THANK YOU FATHER FOR YOUR PRECIOUS SON JESUS CHRIST!!?
Accusation is also the devil's work. Jesus taught us to love. Not to spend every moment trying to find fault everywhere. That's easy. To love - especially your enemy - is far more difficult.
Yet the comments here seem almost 100% to find fault in others! Never in oneself of course!
Come on lets try to love again. Or is that considered old Christianity and all us moderns have to do is judge and condemn?
remarkable that all this needs to be pointed out to people when it's just so obvious. good effort though, dude!
Great stuff! Love the balanced view.
amazing lecture