đ§ Why didn't the Targaryens do anything about the White Walkers? | House of the Dragon
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 20. 05. 2024
- Many are asking if the Targaryens have Aegon the Conqueror's prophecy of Ice and Fire, why does it seem like they did nothing to prepare for the White Walker invasion? Well, I'm here to answer that burning question with facts and logic.
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00:00 If prophecy y u no ready
01:57 Hindsight is a thing
04:11 Being conquered sucks shockingly
05:22 Won't somebody think of the Night's Watch?
06:27 The King who knelt
08:39 The north is cold
10:26 What about the rest of the Targaryens?
12:42 Dreams are uncertain, breaking news
15:27 Alysanne rocks
17:21 Dragons seem important
#GameOfThrones #houseofthedragon #hotd #asoiaf - ZĂĄbava
In case you're wondering why this video has such an abrupt intro and there's two parts randomly missing in the middle of sentences, HBO copyright claimed parts of the video and my only choices were A. Fight them about fair use in a battle that I would probably lose without a lawyer B. Let them take all the money from the video for those three clips or C. Cut them out and deal with a video with weird cuts. I chose C as really my best worst choice.
Its okay brother, we all know how these companies lack coins so they have to screw over fans. Do what has to be done.
Clearly U align with Pentos
@@TomorerI can answer this one with an idea:
"Why didn't we do anything about the collapse of Earth from Global Warming"?
We only bring about change when the problem becomes high priority.
@@drippinwet774 If a ball takes 5 seconds to fall to the ground when it is dropped, what is the time taken for two balls to hit the ground when dropped together from the same height??
It began with Aegon's dream but it surely ended with Aerys' words: Burn them all.
Damn
Imagine in his madness, now knowing his house would fall he wanted to kill everyone so the walker wouldnât take more people into their army
There was also the problem that dragons can't go over the wall so they couldn't even scout the enemy. Alysanne tried multiple times but her dragon refused every time
they just couldnt go around the wall? đ
Why couldn't they? Didn't Danny cross the wall before her dragon was killed??
@@xXJemyXx The wall is not just a physical barrier but also magical. Queen Alysanne tries to fly over the wall and her dragon simply refuses to do it.
@@Cliffhanger2812 The show is all over the place đ€Ł
â@@cbrownjc7633 see that just proves why I'm glad I stopped caring for the show, if even the author is bothered by the shows direction. I may not be able to experience and enjoy George's story through television but I can through his books.
If Aegon`s prophecy really was passed down through word of mouth from King to Heir, then it was almost certainly lost after the Dance. Viserys would not have told any of his children by Alicent. Rhaenyra might have told Jace, buuuut, then the Gullet happened. Rhaenyra`s sons die one by one in quick succession, and it`s not like she was planning to get eaten by Sunfyre. It seems highly unlikely that Rhaenyra would have passed that information on to Aegon in the short time between Joffrey`s death and her execution on Dragonstone.
I think it was partialy lost after the dance, with only fragments surviving. In generations since then, I think several kings only had pieces of it, with Bloodraven being the first person to rediscover the whole thing. This would then lead to about four kings who knew the whole thing, only for the complete prophecy to be lost again at Summerhall. Finally Rhaegar rediscovered the whole thing and began conversing with Aemon (who other than Bloodraven was likely the only other person from pre Sunmerhall who knew it)
A way it could have survived past the dance would have been via the Starks, assuming they were told it. They could have passed it on to Aegon III. But, I'd imagine they wouldn't have the word for word version of the prophecy, thus Aegon III onward would have been dealing with a less detailed version.
I would also imagine that the farther you got down the family tree from people who knew Aegon personally, the less weight this prophesy might have carried. Think about how much stock you'd put in your 6 times great-grandfather's belief of how the world would end because he saw it in a dream.
Especially as more time passed and it kept not coming true.
@@kragary
It's hard to be sure whether the later kings who were so desperate to hatch dragons were motivated by the original prophecy or by the reflection that dragons were the original basis of their power.
We are told that kings kept getting dragon dreams so that's probably the reason.
Except the Targaryens owe everything they have to "dreams". They are only alive because of a dragon dream and over the years plenty of other members have had dragon dreams as wellm
Even if you did believe in your families supposed ability to prophesy the future through dreams I would find it easy to see what youre saying being a reality, yes. Agreed.
no a lot of targayerns had dragon dreams about different stuff. We see this in dunk and egg. So every targeryan would belif the dream because a lot of them have dreams about random imporant stuff
This is probably where they got the saying âThere must always be a Stark in Winterfellâ. Either because of their alliance with one another, or he saw that a Stark was occupying the Castle in his dream and new that that was part of the only way to defeat the Knight King.
Nah, due to overzealous production concepts he wouldn't been able to see the castle or the wights or anything other than an occasional torch flare or very occasional dragon strafing. Because ya know, it wouldve been too dark.
I really like that theory. Thank you for sharing!
@@rorus9530 Thank you!
That saying is way older than the Targaryen, it came from the first battle with the White Walkers
@@jurgenparkour9337 how sure are we though? Also he could have seen that in his dream, and reminded them of the saying. We shall see! Hopefully during this series or the Snow series!
Some great points, also note that the "prophesy" died on the Trident with the death of Rhaegar. It was no longer passed on and it's thought this is the time when the Walkers started to awaken once more UNLESS somehow the Starks were also in on the prophesy (Ned being SO determined not to kill Daenerys for example). It's hard to unpick it all, hopefully HOD and GRRM will throw some light on it. Anyway, what a great start to the series.
Even if the Starks did know, remember, Ned wasnât the heir. The secret could have died when Rickon and Brandon did.
It would have died way before that. Maegor wasn't Aegon I's heir so he wouldn't know it. He settled on Rhaena's daughter as an heir but died before she was out of single digits age. Jaehaerys and Alysanne were never named as heirs by Maegor and he never came within shouting distance of them as far as I know.
What if it didnât dye with him because it was passed to leyanna. Maybe she told Ned on her deathbed
@@JohnSmith-tt3go or potentially, the Starks could have been informed and carried the same tradition from heir to heir, whereas they would have been able to inform Maegor or future kings of the prophesy. That ment it would have died when Brandon and his father were burn't with Rhaegar being slain on the Trident.
@@patriciaviles4033 Brynden Rivers could know of the secret, since he was a bastard targaryen and hand of the king Aerys I, the king who liked books and prophecies a lot. Rivers later became lord commander of the nights watch, and I find it hard to believe that if any lord commander were to know they would never talk about it with the starks, probably it was a back and forth between the two if any side ever changed lords and the new one was unaware.
This dragon dream makes so much sense for so many reasons. It just explains so much. I just love that HOTD is bringing back the prophecy that D&D forgot about. Iâm excited for this show to move forward with the prophecy.
what prophecy?
@@gamwsas the prophecy of Azor Ahai.
@@gamwsas the prophecy about the return of the others/white walkers, the prince that was promised, azor ahai. If you havenât read the books you may not know much about it. But on the show in season 2 I believe Melasandra talked about it some. Itâs what the whole damn story is about.
Prophetic dreams aren't meant to make sense though. It is a vague dream that was interpreted. The prince that was promised absolutely brought together the realm, it was his whole purpose. I aren't even sure where you're trying to go with this. At no point in the dream was it said he would directly kill the baddie. Jon did get many houses to work together, completing the prophecy.
@@kirstybrown1185 what they did on the show was a sad accuse of wrapping up the story. It wonât happen like that in the books, not even close. D&D didnât understand the prophecy or magic and they didnât care to. My point is that it seems like HOTD is getting us back to the real story the way GRRM intended it. And by telling us that Aegon had this dream and thatâs why he conquered Westeros answers many questions and brings many parts of the story that we have together. GOTs last 3 seasons but especially season 8 were terribly wrong. We have to wait for the books to get the real story. But HOTD seems to be getting back to the real story right of the bat. Thatâs all I was saying. If you think Jon bringing the northern houses together and them killing the WW the way they did is how it should of happened then you and I have very different opinions about this story. Although I donât know if you have read the books. If you havenât then I can see why you are ok with how things went. I have never met anyone who read the books that was remotely ok with how GOT ended the story.
The revelation that Aegon the Conqueror had this dream of the Long Night was massive. And it makes sense of a lot of the actions and motivations of the Targaryens and even the Blackfyres. The Blackfyre Rebellions may have just been more than just an offshoot family fighting for the throne. Daemon Blackfyre may have received the secret of Aegonâs vision as well as his sword and thatâs why he and his descendants pressed their claims. The thing that Rhaegar read may have been the prophecy of Azor Ahai as many have suspected but it could also have been about Aegonâs vision and thatâs why he wanted to be a better warrior.
The thing is, even if Aegon the Dragon wrote the prophecy down, word for word, and every heir read it, word for word, people would still have different interpretations of what he meant. [>
yeah it not like stuff dont get burn ,stolen, lost over the year,
Well I know they had dragons against the white walkers but they had a weapon that they didn't use. WILDFIRE you would think that Tyrion would have suggested it after seeing how it helped him out in the battle of blackwater bay
Pigshit doesn't work against White Walkers just 4ft little girls with pointy daggers.
They forgor đ
âDragon VandalismââŠ..new band name, I call it
Sadly I got no one to form a metal band, totaly would use it
How about Dragonite Vandal?
@@Acolyte47 Wyvern Graffiti?
"Good Queen Alisain, The Best There Ever Was"...
Grandmother to Princess Rhaenys Targaryan, the Queen that Never Was...
I need notifications on if you're gonna take all the good band names.
What if Torrhen Stark surrendered because he also had a vision about the long winter and realized that dragon fire could be effective against white walkers?
Torrhen surrended because it was pointless to fight against dragons. Easy as this
@@jurgenparkour9337
I wonder why he came below the neck when that was the usual tactic to gain an advantage against more powerful foes.
Coupled with the fact the people of Rhoynar staved of the dragons in the past.
@@loucypherdamorningstar I can think 2 answers:
1) Torrhen and the North might have thought to be able to take down the dragons and the Targaryen army
2) Torrhen, even knowing the real threat of the dragons, couldn't surrender in front oh his lords like a coward.
They might have talked, of course, the Dragons and the Wolves, but I don't like this course of events, it's not in Martin's style.
Beside this, though, it's well known that after the conquest and the following reign, the Targaryens tried to get married with the Starks, in at least 2 occasions talked in Fire and Blood
@@jurgenparkour9337 did the starks reject?
@@aurelian2668 well, there were no clear and direct proposals from neither side, but the option was considered a few times from the Targaryens
Great video and may I add, we know Rhaegar was obsessed with prophecies as a young boy and only started training with swords after something he read/heard from his father. He goes to be obsessed with TPTWP prophecy and having 3 sons, it tracks that he knew as well. And it tracks that the secret died with him, thus never reaching Daenerys, the one who would actually revive the dragons. Thereâs tons of prophecyâs bad timing/delay/curse themes there that GRRM loves to play with. Daenerys the one who needed to know the most, never hears of it until probably too late.
Weâre probably told Rhaegar but since he was âtouchedâ he was probably not believed UNTIL Rhaegar read something that caused him to change course and become a warrior. He was also pretty EMO because of the weight of this knowledge.
Maybe there are three dragons needed to effectively fight the others.
Torren Stark knew - the last hero was a STARK. He defeated the others FIRST during the first long night.
No reason to believe the Starks didnât already possess this knowledge
Watch GrayArea's new video "the exact moment the white walkers returned"
It touches on the prophecy being passed along and who knew about it. Great video :)
@@lanasjoynt485 where tf do you see Torren Stark was the last hero? The last hero's indentity is unknown, and the only Torren Stark history remembers is the King who Knelt
TPTWP ... is Jon for Sansa.
Jon is the last Hero of three.
GRRM is repeating Aegon's conquest of Westeros with the Three Heads of the Dragon being the Azor Ahail.
Aegon is Jon.
Rhaenys is Daeny
Visena is ????? You know who.
Not. Visenya fell from her dragon that was shot from the sky. She would die.
Daeny was shot from the sky but did not not die.
GRRM approved the House of Undying Visions in season 2 which showed Daney takes the throne in Winter and dies north of the Wall. Again. This was way back in Season 2 that we learned Daeny will take the throne in winter & will die north of the wall. By the end of Season 6 ..... It was now winter in Westeros, Cersei was becoming a MAD QUEEN, daeny was on her way to Westeros .... and the Whites had reached the Wall. If you understood the Season 2 visions ... you knew in season 7 Cersei will go Mad Queen be killed by her brother Jaime ...lose the throne in winter to Daeny ... and Daeny will die north of the wall being shot down from the sky ... just like Rhaenys.
But D&D were told to write a different ending and to NOT spoil the book. So nothing was going to kill Cersei or Daeny in season 7 ... even being shot from the sky ... and only the ground directly in front of the Night King ... NORTH OF THE WALL.
Again. GRRM is repeating the conquest of Westeroes by Aegon ... with the Azor Ahai.
Each dragon rider takes the throne & dies ... but together they save the living from the dead. Jon is the Prince that was promised .... to Sansa. Queen Sansa remains with child & hopefully a dragon egg.
And Dragons can smell what blood you have. Daeny's dragons know her blood and anybody closely related to her. This is why ... Quentyn Martel was killed visiting her locked up dragons foolishly believe he would be safe .... because he has targaryen blood. He doesn't have Daey's blood.
C'mon. You know who the 2nd dragon rider is. He ... rides the smallest golden dragon, Viserion and takes the throne after Daeny dies. Jon rides Rhaegal and is the last rider to take the throne but he too is killed but after he defeats the Night King..
Not "3 sons", he had one daughter and one son when he told Ellia that his only son was the Prince that was Promised.
This recasts Alysanne's attempt at flying over the Wall.
I have concluded that I have to reread all of Fire&B and WoIaF with this knowledge in the forefront of my mind. It potentially changes everything that is under the surface.
OMG I wondered why Alysanne was so hell bent on flying north of the wall - Silverwing wasnât having any part of the Others though.
Maybe she wanted to see if there was any activity north if the wall aside from Thenns and Wildlings.
How so?
Would somethiing like your dragon not being able to fly over a magical wall that has a curious history not be enough to consider trying to, at the least, map the north??
I agree with Joe that our hindsight does affect our observations. But if this vague prophecy about Westeros having to be united is true, wouldn't you, again at the very least, want what's past the wall mapped out?? I mean, Aegon had a map made out of a table. Maps did seem pretty important to them.
I could be wrong, if so i'm willing to hear out other possibilities. I do wish though, that George did not come out and confirm that THAT is the song of Ice and Fire. A secret prophecy only two ppl ever know. Kinda crap.
@@marting1984: I think that that is exactly what I am saying. Or is, at least, part of or one of the possibilities for her purpose in trying to get to the other side.
@@lanasjoynt485: In her shoes, I definitely would think "I probably should check on this". You and I are tuning into the same channel.
Clearly Aegon and Toron discussed the coming winter.
Glad he mentioned this.
My head canon, is that this was forgotten after Viserys and that it wouldnât be slowly pieced back together until after Aegon (V), and then not really understood until Rhaegar took an interest in it and started a correspondence with Maester Aemon at the Wall. In between, there was a dramatic decline in the Crownâs support for the Wall. The Greenâs probably cut down the Red Keepâs Weirwood and beginning the shift toward the Faith of the Seven probably helped the decline as well since respecting the Weirwoods and the Old Gods was part of the original Pact between (Humans) and the Children of the Forest and the land itself.
Aegon the Conqueror accepted the Faith of the Seven. And the Targaryen most hostile to the religion of the Old Gods was Baelor.
@@clownpendotfart Aegon didnât convert. It was a political move.
@@eds1942 Conversion was frequently a political move, both in Westeros and in actual history.
This is exactly what I've been saying over on tumblr. To expect the Targaryen's to be perfect and to make the perfect decisions and to get rid of the threat on basically day one, when it's likely they had no clear description of this threat, is pretty ridiculous. Especially when you consider how GRRM writes. Nothing ever goes smoothly. And like you said, there were so many different types of Targaryen's who go about doing things in different ways so there are going to be a lot of different avenues they would approach the threat. And I'm glad you mentioned the whole game of telephone possibly being played here. This is what I think happened with the Stark's if they knew or if they ever had a prophecy about the others themselves that may have played in with both their house words "winter is coming" and their saying about always needing a Stark in Winterfell. If a game of telephone is indeed being done, which I believe, the words would be changed little by little. And it does make more and more sense that this prophecy wasn't lost. I was thinking for a bit that it was, but I'm fairly certain it wasn't now.
*
Also, Jaehaerys and Alysanne had the King's Road built going all the way to the Wall, which would make the gathering of armies (if needed) easier if they needed to go North to face a threat. But also it's an easier path made in order to send supplies to the North and the Wall as well. :)
Everything was in place for the dragons to kill the white walkers and for Bran to warg one of the dragons. That they had nothing to do with defeating the white walkers was the biggest let down of all time.
itâs like the biggest plot hole. jon was the son who was promised. and arya killed the knight king because why?
@@brooklynnmcloud1470 cause the prince that was promised had the job to unite the Realm,aegon didn't say a word on having the final strike.
@@aikrichter5403 this is actually how I view it. Aegon is the one who got the forces of the North to unite to fight and defeat the night king
Damn, GRRM thought of everything...the historical actions of a house intricately fleshed out in such a normal human way
Everything but the ending
@@TheMrMRsmoke Gotta remember that this is a living breathing world, there wont be an ending
He has not written the ending. The show is not based on the books in the last seasons.
Thisis brilliant, I adore your sense of humor as always. And I love that this does not kill my theory that the Good Queen was not told the secret but that she herself had Dragon Dreams, pieced it together (and then of course called out Jae when he tells her for not telling her sooner. Too bad. She already knew) and that it is one reason that she supported the North/the wall so fervently. Also think she dropped hints to Alaric and his daughter Alarra that she took under her wing to give the North a little reminder of what they're supposed to be remembering.
I remember talking about this years and years ago. It was clear after there wasnât a Targaryen on a throne anywhere is when the White Walkers started to âwake upâ. Probably had Craster supplying them babies to turn for the 20 years while Robert was king. So, Aegon was keeping to what he saw, but the White Walkers knew men were easy to corrupt and in time theyâd kill themselves off within dispute and territory.
Beautiful review
I wonder if it was Aegon who told Torren that "there must always be a Stark in Winterfell."
I think all potential Targaryen heirs should be told about the prophetic dream and they all vote who they will all support completely and then everyone step aside and support them.
Aegon's âsong of ice and fireâ being contained in that dagger is particularly relevant to Game of Thrones because that was the weapon used to defeat The Night King. Arya Stark memorably plunged the Valyrian steel blade into the Night King's heart, destroying him and deactiving his undead army. -DenofGeek
Eww
memorable is one way to put it. after all a bout of explosive diarrhea can certainly be described as memorable.
Just discovered your channel! Love it! Thank you for all the hard work and great videos!
Awesome video man! I loved it! Very entertaining and the visuals were put together extremely well... this video deserves soo many more views, I'll be looking forward to future videos you put out pertaining to HOT D.
I feel like Bloodraven tried harder than anyone to fulfill the prophecy.
Bloodraven ends up leaving Fire element magic behind alltogether and becoming an incarnation of Earth magic as the last Greenseer until Bran.
@@eric2500 Exactly, hes basically a trojan horse. I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to get sent to the wall.
Bloodraven spent his career in KL failing to defend the realm against the Ironborn while enacting a police state against dissenters, all with the aim of stopping the Blackfyres from returning, which he failed to do as there was a Third Blackfyre Rebellion.
Proper breakdown video rocked my man.
The unknown chain of custody should be playing into how much we believe the exact wording of the prophecy that we are given. Unless every word of it is written down in Aegon's hand, we can believe the general gist of it and probably certain details like the endless Winter of death (because that is too specific and accurate for it to have been accidentally assumed in the game of telephone), but we should be skeptical that we have received every word of it properly even here. So, it is not just the Targaryens who are struggling to interpret and propagate the prophecy, adding layers of meaning and losing information along the way, but we the audience are also part of that. We have a narrow window or snapshot of what is thought of the prophecy more than a century after it was dreamed, under the influence of who knows how much reinterpretation and loss. We should not be treating every word of this exact quote as gospel, but instead as a general impression of what has been motivating the actions of at least some members of this family over time.
I saw someone speculate that it's actually written on the dragonpaw dagger, but I'm not sure if it's been confirmed or not
I havenât seen this type of lore or observation into the Targaryen dynasty. Awesome content
So so good đ Loved this breakdown of whatâs been rattling around in my mind. Thanks Joe M
Great job!!! Thank the gods for ur work on this vid!!
Outstanding! Best explanation video Iâve watched so far.
Wow, thanks!
Great video, really helps to put everything into perspective! I agree that alysanne is the one that prepare the most for the long night, and knowing that they were expecting a âterrible winterâ makes me wonder if they thought that the disease, the shivers, was part of it? It was terrible and some of the books descriptions of the disease are very reminiscent of the long night
That's an interesting thought. There are two major plagues in fire and blood and while one comes from the free cities they never did know where the other started. I wonder if that could have come from over the wall?
The shit seasons of GoT really soured most things GOT/ASOIAF for me simply because it sucked so hard, but the House of the Dragon is reviving my enthusiasm for it.
16:38 Hear hear!! Bless Good Queen Alysanne!đ
iâm really glad for your whole basis of hindsight here. i get so exhausted of viewers of anything (nonfiction/fiction/whatever) Monday morning QBâing.
itâs very explainable how after the course of generations, hundreds of years, a distant warning via a dream is swept under the historical rug. people need to be more understanding when watching stuff like this and youâd think GoT fans would be.
Hey dude....lovely, informative and intelligent insight. This connects the original GOT and the prequel HOTD and the history together with considerable common sense and accurate history. It sweetens the HOTD and my parallel rewatch of GOT. It feels and sounds like you are in GRRM's head, and his motivations for his writing and carrying the history forward....thanks so much man..glad I found you. You sir, has secured a subscriber!!!!
Wow what an absolutely awesome video.
Such a big fan of your channel love your theories.
I would easily believe that later Targaryens disregarded Aegon's prophecy, because it's easy to disregard several hundred years old legend which never even came close to being proven true before events of the GoT. But your interpretation also makes perfect sense.
Brilliant video! Thank you so much.
What a great video, what an interesting perspective you make it seem so obvious
I asked this question. Thanks for this coherent answer.
I had a theory that I'm trying to remember all the details from a long time ago. I thought the act of a Targaryen occupying the throne kept the Others(White Walker) dormant also somehow connected to a Stark being in Winterfell. A song of Ice and Fire after all. I have to re-read the books again. lol The act of Jaime Lannister killing Aerys Targaryen is what woke the Others up. There wasn't fire holding them back.
i think it has more to do with the white walkers not wanting to invade a united realm. by the time they invaded, it was so split up and devestated by war; that it was their best shot.
In the books thought, it is heavily implied that they invaded essos as well in the far east. So who knows.
Watch GrayArea's new video "the exact moment the white walkers returned"
@@saraseveryn8650 Will do. Ty for sharing :)
@@trickledowneconomicsfail7127 Yes east of the gray waste. We don't get a complete look at the complete map and I always thought there could be a connection between the Far East of Essos and the northern western part of westeros.
Arya: What's west of Westeros?
Well, Essos of course. lol
this makes sense why the master of whispers was a targaryen loyalist after all those years. he had information about the prophecy and knew that only by having a targaryen on the throne would hold back the white walkers.
GRRM provides an even deeper interrogation of the problem of knowledge than we first thought.
You always make great content
There was a Targaryen queen who tried to go past the wall but her dragon refused. Which is weird to me because Danny passed it without any difficulty
Technically Danny flying over wall isn't cannon that was HBO nonsense. I mean I could be but we don't know
Just found your channel recently a few weeks ago. I only watched alt shift x because of time constraints (fucking life, fucking work) but I'm finding myself gravitating to you more often than not. Your videos have wonderful storytelling, intriguing visuals and engaging editing. Thanks for sharing your work and passion with us!
Always great content!
More to come!
Aerys was mad but that probably was the reason why he stocked up on so much wildfire, maybe Bran Stark
whispering in his ear through time but unintentionally driving mad but just the words "burn them all" misinterpreted by his mad mind like Hodor with hold the door. Also people of westeros also had the stories of the white walkers coming from the North, it'll be extremely hard for Aegon not to realize that was his dream?
Seeing Balerionâs skull from a downward angle REALLY shows his size Paddy C looks so small, Iâve read he was 100 times bigger than Syrax so canât wait to see Vhagar as sheâs meant to have grown over the 130 years in Westeros to be near as big as balerion . Oh and Sunfyre best be something extraordinary ha
Not big enough if you ask me.
She looked incredible.
i wish i had such lore juice in my veins. thank you for sharing
Don't forget about all the dragon glass hidden on dragonstone!
Now we understand that Aegon's motivation for war wasn't for conquest but a war for preservation.
Torrhen and Aegon meeting is a really nice thing to think about
Hope they adapt the hour of the wolf by the end of the tv series. Kinda have a thoery that Aegon the younger never heard of the a song of ice and fire prophesy when he became king until Cregan Stark pass it along to him. If Torrhen Stark knew about Aegon prophesy, there still a chance the knowledge been pass down to the current Lord of Winterfell tying it nicely to GOT.
Grey Area points out that this is unlikely as the Eddard was not supposed to be the Stark heir, and his father and older brother who knew the Stark prophesy which tells WHY there must be a Stark in Winterfell, died in King's Landing at the hands of the mad king.
You are quickly becoming one of my favorite asoiaf channels
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Martin put this ice and fire dream on the show. So probably he gonna put another explaination to how the secret was lost in dance of the dragons.
im sure somewhere in the books, it is mentioned that aegon felt as thought he needed to take over the 7 kingdoms. And i always liked the idea of the mad king knowing about them as well.
Wow JM that was great. Thanks â€ïž
Yes, I think you are correct! It seems obvious that Aegon wouldn't have any actionable information given GRRM's stance on prophesy.
Hi, liked and subscribed!! Love asoif content đ«â€ïžâđ„
I do hope we can see the wall during this part of the timeline. To see the difference of how much more maned the castles are
Yeah and it's probably better taken care of like all.the different outposts are in. Much better conditions
Like Gray gard
Two notes:
- One is that I think the prophecy pretty much died with Rhaenyra and Viserys. While Rhaenyra may have been told of the prophecy, I doubt she told it to anyone outside maybe her eldest child. Outside of him, I doubt Rhaenyra would've told anyone. Thus, with the death of Viserys and Rhaenyra and her eldest child, I think the prophecy died with the Dance of the Dragons. While I'm sure writings still existed, it would require one to dig into ancient books and old texts. This, however, is likely what inspired Rhaegar to pick up a sword.
- Two is that Aegon likely kept the idea of banishing people to the wall instead of death or imprisonment as a way to keep their numbers up without directly having to expend significant resources, especially in the early days of the Iron Throne.
My thoughts exactly. Rhaegar has visions and is seems to be clairvoyant so it makes sense he would rediscover the prophecy .
But at the end it was daemon and rhaenyra's child, Aegon the younger who Inherited the iron throne after the dance of the dragon, maybe the secret was passed down to him
@@mbusomthimkhulu8136 Honestly, I'm skeptical. The prophecy was passed down to the heir, and her heir was killed. By the time the young Aegon became heir, due to the deaths of his older siblings, Rhaenyra was and the rest of the black faction were on the run.
My guess is if anyone rediscovered it, it was Bloodraven, as its only around the time of the Blackfyre rebellions that we start seeing kings act in a way that indicates they know. So Bloodraven, who seems to have been and is still trying to prepare for the long night probably rediscovered the prophecy and started tipping off his the various kings. Like especially Egg seems to have known, as he specifically had his grandkids marry each other because of the prophecy.
it all makes so much sense now!!!!!!đ„đ„đ„đ„
Great points!
How did I miss the fact that there was an Alaric Stark? I read Fire and Blood and missed it/don't remember somehow. My 13 year old is named Alaric. Wild. Great video, Joe! I really enjoyed this!
Just keep him away from Rome!
@@Egilhelmson Yes, precisely. No turning friends into Visigoth hoardes to sack Rome with.
@@KatAdVictoriam Interesting choice of a name, after some family member?
@@paulusillyriusiudathaddaio2530 No, not a family member. I am just a huge History geek and when it was time to come up with a name I thought that Alaric having been the King of the Visigoths was a good "strong" name. I have a son named Conan as well. Yes, after the other Barbarian of fiction. Heh.
@@KatAdVictoriam having to choose one strong person from that time period i would pick Stilicho, but naming kid Flavius might be a bit odd. I am just not so fond of barbarians in general. I am 22 and trying to persuade my gf to call our future son Constantine by his second name, no progress on this matter though xD
Awesome video !
any prophetic warning will lose it's oomph, urgency, and meaning the further it's passed on from generation to generation. After 5 or 6 generations, the Targaryens probably regarded the white walker threat much the same as the rest of Westeros; an old, exaggerated legend.
Awesome video, yeah you think if they had like 20 dragons at one point and knew about the Long Night prophecy then they could just go north of the wall for a week and just melt all the lads
I think that aegons dream continued down the Targaryen line after Raenyra because all the way down to Raegar studied prophecy and believed he needed to bring about the prince that was promised. So they all knew down to Reagar.
And Robert didn't so... He f- up a bit... Aerys more but... Robert's fault was that... He didn't know
@@RexOlafusVidulusMagnus agreed. Robert isnât the smartest guy anyway, but he was misinformed on many things. Him thinking that lyanna had been kidnapped by Reahgar is why he wanted to kill the Targaryens in the first place. If he had known the truth he would of been angry, but he wouldnât have been able to put together an army. No one would go to war with him because his betrothed didnât want him. And had he known a Targaryen needed to be on the Iron thrown and all the kingdoms united to stop the end of mankind, im sure heâd have made different choices.
@@michelesilva9491 Half right. Had everyone known, Robert couldn't have raised an army. But he wouldn't have made another choice. He'd still be pissed at Reahgar and he's not going to believe a fairytale he's never believed, though surely heard. He especially won't believe the story just because the man who stole the woman he loved told him so.
@@Swearengen1980 no Robert probably wouldnât of believed Aegons dragon dream. But if little finger hadnât said that Reahgar kidnapped lyanna, and they would have let her family know she went willingly things would of been very different. Brandon wouldnât of went to the king with demands so that avoids the 2 Stark deaths at the hands of the mad king. So there is no justification for war. No oneâs gonna go to war cause Roberts pissed that his betrothed doesnât want him. If Robert did go after Reahgar he would of been doing it alone. It wouldnât of led to the end of the Targaryens.
Jon is the Prince that was promised ... for Sansa.
The three heads of the Dragon ... is the Azor Ahai. Lightbringer is the dragon of each rider.
Jon is the Last Hero ... of three.
Each rider takes the throne & dies ... but together they save the living from the dead.
GRRM is repeat the consquest of Westeros .... with the Azor Ahai.
Aegon is Jon
Rhaenys is Daeny
Visenya is ???? You know who.
Not that Rhaenys is killed after she is shot from the sky by a Scorpion arrow. Daeny on was shot from the sky by a scorpioin arrow ... but did not dies.
Note the GRRM approved the visions at the house of undying in seaosn 2 ... which showed Daeny taking the throne in winter & dying north of the wall.
Season 7 ... it was winter in Westeros ... and nothing was going to dethrone Cersei and Daeny was never going to die north of the wall even though she on Drogon in front of the Night King ... that you can see flapping his wings as the Night King takes aim and kills Viserion.
As bad as Season 7 is .... it confirms GRRM is repeating Aegon's conquest with the Azor Ahai prophecy.
Daeny is Rhaenys ... and will die North of the Wall falling from Drogon.
Tyrion is Visenya ... and will also die by ?? after taking the throne
Jon is Aegon ... and will die by ?? after taking the throne.
Everything makes sense when it's history repeating.
Didnât expect to see LegendofTotalWar in this video! @16:14 Great theory btw
I am a subscriber of his channel, he's unreal at that game and also explaining what he's doing. Plus pretty entertaining while doing it.
We can wait to watch the rest of the series...answers may be there
Very well done video
We need a detailed white walker/others timeline ASAP
They didnât do anything because they had a following explanatory nightmare that revealed that the great threat was nothing more than a cold scarecrow, a fragile ice cube, and it would be easily defeated by a small screaming ninja.
Great analysis
The better question is why didnât the Targaryens notice that they were being played against each?
Twice the family fractured into factions that culminated in civil wars. Both Barbery Dustin and Maester Marwyn have pointed out.
"Both Barbery Dustin and Maester Marwyn have pointed out."...in hindsight.
How many times did that happen to Rome, Persia, or even the Papacy, let alone Ireland or Wales in the Middle Ages?
@@Djynni No, Barbery didn't say anything about the Dance or Blackfyre rebellions, just Robert's. Marwyn has talked about the death of the dragons, but not subsequent civil wars.
This could explain Starks house words "winter is coming"
@9:15 @Joe Magician who's the Targaryen immediately to the right of Dany?
It was the âDragon vandalismâ for me, thatâs wild đđđđđ€đŸ
I think the Targaryen knowledge of Aegons prophecy vanishing after the Dance of the Dragons actually isnât too far of a stretch and it further contextualizes just how damaging that succession crisis was to house Targaryen.
From Aegon to Viserys, The westerosi monarchs were acting in best interest of the prophecy and trying to keep the realm well tended to and prepared for the coming winter, Whenever it may be. But then the dance of the dragons happened and the family was nearly decimated, Undoing EVERYTHING.
The Targaryens didnât just lose their dragons, but they also lost a sense of shared vision and a higher goal for the realm beyond the local politics. Dhaerons conquest of dorne could have easily been him trying to conquer what his forebears couldnât simply due to ego and a simple desire to conquer, the once prophecy motivated war of the conqueror being repeated simply because âitâs the way it isâ or âbecause itâs thereâ same could be said for Baelor strengthening ties to the faith of the seven and Aegon IVs war with dorne, Its just what house Targaryen has always been doing.
If the rule of Aegon the Conqueror to Viserys I is the Prophecy driven rule of Westeros that sought to prepare the realm for apocalypse.
And the post war Rule of Aegon Dragonsbane to Aegon IV can be considered the disorganized interregnum period ruled by political precedent and enjoying the fruits of the United realm without knowledge of The prophecy.
Then Iâd say that the rule from Dhaeron to Aeries II is the focused reclamation period of Targaryen history. This is the era of history that gave us BloodRaven and Maester Aemon, Rhaegar, Daeron the dreamer, Aeries I, jahaerys II, and the myopic emphasis on Dragon dreams.
Actually, The Targaryen relationship with dragons can be seen as a literal interpretation of their relationship with prophecy, Going from reliance upon it, to indifference towards it, To a desire to reclaim it.
If the dance of the dragons can be considered the death of the prophecy, then perhaps the resurgence of dragon dreams amidst the Dunk and Egg stories coincides with a reborn emphasis on recovering the lost prophecy and trying to find out how to interpret them. It would explain the seeming gap between the Dance of the Dragons and the Blackfyre rebellions, Because it tells a history of three different eras of Targaryens and their relationship with prophecy. This being contrasted by the âinterregnumâ periodâs distinct neglect of dragons and by proxy the mystic. From Aegon III letting the dragons die out, to Dhaeron Iâs assertion that HE was the dragon Westeros needed in the war for Dorne, to Aegon IV literally selling a dragon egg to lord butterwell for sex, said dragon egg having mystical significance during the later reign of Aeries I thanks to Daemon Blackfyres dragon dream.
Amazing breakdown
Also, Alysanne and Jaehaerys tried to fly north of the Wall to see what was out there, but couldn't. Their dragons refused to go.
Iâm a lot less involved in the GoT universe than you, the author of this video, obviously are, but Iâve also been kind of annoyed by people online complaining about the prophecy being included in the prequel series. I think it does make sense, and I appreciate that through-line, and itâs interesting to see how in the future that original dream is still recognized and heeded (or not) by his descendants.
Unless there is something Iâm not understanding about the peopleâs criticism, which is very possible in this case, then I donât think I agree with their criticism.
Great video.
The biggest surprise came in last season when we had a different night king with beard and the present one had no bread. Its obvious George has a better explanation but only if he completes the bloody book.
I LOVE THISâ€â€â€
However, you're wrong about Ageon the Unworthy. I honestly don't believe making all those Bastards was "just" an affront to his brother & Sister wife. With what we know now, It's extremely possible he did that to ensure there would always be Blood of the Dragon in Westeros. Maybe he dreamed about Robert's Rebellion and needed Son's (which he favored most) to ensure there were legitimate clamients to the Throne to return to take up arms against the others hints why he legitimize them all on his Death bed.
You really opened up a lot of possibilities with this one. Lol
I don't think Aegon cared about anything really đ
Robert is himself a descendant of the Unworthy, since his grandmother was the Unlikely's daughter.
@@clownpendotfart Good Point!
I think the dream information wasn't passed on at some point and by the time the white walkers showed up, nobody knew
That is true, Robert's Rebellion broke the chain from Aerys and Rhaegar to Daenerys and Jon.
@@JoeMagician
And from Rickard to Ned, who was never concerned about the white walkers.
It's always frustrated me that we know effectively nothing of what Gared said to Ned.
Was he really "half mad", or was he perfectly lucid but Ned just didn't believe his story?
I wonder in House of the dragon will show who did the drawings in the caves on Dragonstone about the whitewalkers
That dagger on his (viserys) hip is the one Arya used to kill the Ice King?
I have a question: Why keep the prophecy a secret to only be shared (primarily) with heirs? The people of Westeros accept the concept of magic and prophecies, and no doubt many would have doubted Aegon's dream as being a ploy to conquer, but the Starks bending the knee (imo) kind of reinforces the whole thing and could have set an example. Is there some reason I'm not aware of that this had to be a guarded secret?
Because alerting your enemies to a forthcoming moment of change prepares them to usurp your power when the time comes. Rallying people to a cause is not as simple as declaring "X is true".
@@niemand262 How would enemies be "alerted" to "usurp" by awareness of such a prophecy?
Huh. Interesting video!
Ooo poor baby Aegon III. Not only is most of his family dead he's ten years old, he's starring down the barrel of an apocalyptic prophecy his mother may not have even had the time/opportunity to EXPLAIN to him properly before her execution. Then the dragon eggs aren't hatching anymore and all of the dragons are dead.
This definitely puts a new spin on Aerys II's idea to build a new Wall hundred of miles north of the current one (Source: A World of Ice & Fire).
I'm calling an even higher claim, not only all targaryen heirs knew, probably all stark knew too. It's not like the king who bent the knee would keep the secret to himself. With most stark lords knowing it or at least believing in the dangerous or the north it would make all the sense so many starks also having a complicated relation with the night's watch, the wild north, old secrets and such.
"Winter is coming"
Ned doesn't seem to know there's any connection between the Wall and Targaryens.
Iâd wager that the dream was reinterpreted as a dragon must sit on the realm or such since that is what was lost in the dance. The idea of the dream just being forgotten about with other problems, while possible, seems lame.
đ€Ł the title of this video's first chapter is hilarious lol
Did the mad king refer to the white walkers when he said âburn them allâ and everyone just misunderstood?
Sick burn at the end.
Seriously though, idk why people assume historical or fictitious dynasties would have all of their members act in uniscine all towards the same goal. They're different people with their own priorities and woes. They aren't CK3 players!
Good Queen alysanne tried to go beyond the wall but her dragon refused point blank to go past it, so i doubt the Targs could have done anything even if they wanted to, cant take on a threat when your only weapon wont turn off its safety
Soon as I seen the title I said "that's a damn good question"