Does Suspension Travel Really Make A Difference?
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- čas přidán 15. 04. 2023
- 100 to 120mm XC bikes, 130/140mm Trail bikes, or 160/170mm Enduro, mountain bikes come in all different shapes, sizes and suspension travel... But the last one got Rich Payne thinking, does suspension travel really make THAT much of a difference?
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What suspension travel does your bike have? Would you rather have more or less for your riding?
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My 100mm XC hardtail staring at me from the corner: *I'm in danger*
It's totally fine if it cracks too, just get some duct tapes.
@@Chapelrone Nothing that some good ol' duct tape won't fix🤣
@Elias F my XC bikes agrees with yours 😂
Ride with all three bikes up and down and then compare the average times of the total run times!
When you want to ride down you most likely have to pedal up first
For me having a bike that is capable of doing best of both worlds is key
So, trail?
I enjoy the down more so lose a bit on efficiency for 180mm travel:) also if you gp to ski slopes with lifts there is no downside.
I think a large travel bike with the right cassette and a lock out shock will be the best of all worlds
@@TheShift1313 It really depends on the trails you ride and your physical abilities. For trails that you ride to the top and getting to the top doesnt matter and then bombing down, a bigger travel bike is better. for trails that are up, down, up down, I would rather have a mid travel bike.
i went from 160/160 to 140/120. The improvement to climbing ability was huge, and i can't really tell the difference that much going down, other than dropping off big things. I don't think my riding ability justifies having any more travel, and accepting that has improved my enjoyment of riding vastly
Yeah same.. I think the key is to let go of your ego 🤣
Yes it does but most of us do not need as much as we have
I was very happy with my 130mm. I had an opportunity to get more travel when that bike was stolen, but opted to stick with 130. Haven't been disappointed yet and even tackled trails like the Whole Enchilada with it. Definitely didn't need more.
@@downhill64 Moab black diamond, now considered to be gravel road
I guess thats because its better to have something you dont need than to need something you dont have, right?
Hey Rich, you should make another video for climbing with same bikes as in this video 🙂
Bet on the climb the xc will definitely beat the big boy by quite a bit more than 12 seconds 😁 what this video shows is just how far bike design/geometry has come for a xc bike to even be capable of doing that.
Exactly what I came to the comments to say!
I reckon geometry would have more of an effect than travel. Would a video of travel vs geometry be possible?
I love your videos and experiments! So interesting and not always intuitive the results. I also liked the tire pressure experiment. Curious on that one of a time comparison of middle range pressure to low pressure. Love this channel and the whole crew. Thanks for keeping it going!
The results both in time and how it felt make a tonne of sense. I imagine the order would be in reverse on the way back up too. I do love though that unless you're competing, buying a bike now is more about what feeling you want to have instead of what types of trails you can ride with it (within reason of course).
The Nukeproof Reactor has now 150mm in the front and for me its a fantastic allrounder. Love it
Why not include the time of climbing up as well as the going down??
We gotta get up in the first place.
Timing the Downs is only part of the picture.
Probs spend 80% of the time going up and 20% going down. So surely climbing comfort and efficiency need to be considered.
They did that recently and the short travel bike was faster overall
@@benjy288 they did everything recently 🤣🤣
Put a modern geo Hardtail into the mix. My money would be on the Hardtail FTW 😜😜
But that wouldn’t sit well with the Channel Sponsors trying to sell bikes that we don’t need 🙈🙈
If you're a racer optimizing suspension for the race will definitely give you the edge but for the rest of us, just having fun on bikes, being under biked is the spice of life.
I'm on a F140/R130mm Trail bike and I bomb down gnarly downhills like my buddies that have 160+mm of travel and I'm loving it, I've never noticed any major issue with my shorter travel but I would like to try a longer travel bike someday
Yeah would be good to see the difference on a trail bike, was thinking about putting a bigger fork on mine as I have a fairly steep head angle & low bb so think it would work.
Same bikes but with a timed test uphill on your usually mix of trail centre technical and gravel surfaces.
If you're getting a ride to the top of the trail, and mostly heading downhill, then of course you want more travel.
If you actually work for your dinner, then XC is the way to go.
Should also throw a plus tire hard tail into the mix just to see how that compares
i'v only got 120-130mil travel but with stackers inside as well as locking it out & riding hard i find it runs good, but if i didn't lock it out & not ride it so hard i find its not enough, as you pointed out a month ago with Atherton, also tyres & inserts make a difference to.
I'm managing with just my NP Scout at the minute with 140 front. No doubt will get a full sus frame again but it will almost certainly be around 130 rear 140 front.
When I was iin the market for buying a new bike last year I went with a 140 back/150 front one, but now after riding for a couple months, I wish I had gotten an XC bike instead, because it probably pedals alot better for the type of riding I do it would be more suitable, but you gotta make mistakes to learn.
Steve at Vorsprung covered this question really well a while back but actually went into the science of the suspension. Well worth a watch I'd say.
I love these videos! But I also love my hearing! Could you please tell your editor to balance the voice to LOUD ASS BASS ratio a bit when the music kicks?
Hey Tks for the video, do another with the same bikes on climbing let’s see what’s the timing gonna be like 😮
i ride a 140/130mm and have no issues, and blow by long travel enduro bikes all the time on the descents.
You took the bikes on essentially a downhill course. Had it actually been a cross country, down and up course, I firmly believe the 110/120 bike or even a hard tail would / could win.
Last year I went from a 26-wheel-era Iron Horse Hollow Point with 100mm travel, to a full blown 2016 Giant Reign with 160-160 travel and more modern geometry. My confidence skyrocketed with that bike! Now I'm able to tackle lines and features that I'd evade with my old horse, and my skills have improved quite a lot. I had plans to keep the Reign for a couple years and then get a freeride rig of the likes of the Propain Spindrift, with 180mm travel on both ends. But the Reign has been so good at my local trails and what I do, that I'm starting to wonder if I really need those extra 20mm of travel from the Spindrift. I mean: I'm no Remy Metailler (obviously), there's no Whistler-level bike parks in my country, and I'm yet to find the bottom of my suspension. I think I'll keep my Reign for a few years more.
looking at buying a 2019 reign with 170 mm
Same brother same
Do a test with the same bike but heavier wheels and tyres. Like a light weight xc setup, mid weight trail, and heavy casing/wheel enduro setup. I think this makes more difference to efficiency than suspension travel.
I ride 120 rear 130 front and can keep up with 170 enduro bikes at the local bike park just fine, I find too much travel can numb the track too much and make it a bit boring, good if you're racing, but the vast majority of people aren't, I find short travel bikes much more fun.
I completely agree with you!!
Great video but I don’t think timing it over a single section really covers the topic; I’m fortunate enough to have a Scout, a Reactor and a Giga and as much as the Giga would undoubtedly be quicker down a rough descent, it’s nowhere near as engaging or fun as either of the other two. It’s also not as nimble or as efficient at climbing so for a trail ride around the woods it gets left in the garage every time.
I enjoy the comparisons of travel but I’d like to see a comparison focus on geometry. There are many riders who may only have one bike but want to ride with friends. The challenge, and been there done that I got a second bike, was riding an XC 100 travel hard tail with friends riding enduro bikes down black trails. I’d like to see a true XC bike ridden down black trails. It’s super sketch for me but I’m sure with your team’s skills it possible. Do you mind doing a geometry comparison video in chunky technical trails vs speedy switch back burm trails? Thanks
If you would ride section what has uphill and downhill xc bike probably would be a winner. I recently did similar test between hardtale Grand C 0/120 v Spectral 150/160 and hardtale win. Ok that was a blue grade trail.
(reasonably) more travel is just more forgiving. i feel much more confident with my 150mm trail/enduro full sus now than i did with my previous 120mm xc hardtail.
Same I went from 100 to 150 and I feel so comfortable and it climbs amazing and downhill is just a beast with wider tires
Dont know if its just me but i find a lot of trails in the uk have coss country like climbs and then downhill style descents so a mid to long travel bike is the way forward in most cases.
I have 180mm/160mm Canyon Strive, I dont have the money nor the will to get a seperate bike and maintain it. So I (being "overbiked") enjoy my bike on flat trails in Netherlands, bikeparks in Germany, enduro trails in Belgium. its all about fun for as long as you have it, it does not matter how much travel your bike has, you can enjoy hardtail just like Blake does ;)
Personally I dont care about times, the bigger the smile when I go downhill the better hehe
Travel really makes a difference.. I would recommend to watch the video with Blake racing Enduro on his home made hardtail and having better result than approx 3/4 of other racers on full sus bikes😂😂.
im deciding between the canyon spectral and the propain tyee and i have narrowed down to 10mm more travel from the tyee vs better suspension overall from the spectral. This video came in clutch just at the right time almost reading my thoughts lol
The Spectral is an awesome bike which I currently own and ride everything from local enduros to just blasting out mile after mile which it does with ease. Bikes are always subjective to the rider but I love mine and am so glad I downgraded the enduro bike to a trail bike that can still handle that if I want too. The key is to buy a bike for the riding you do 90% of the time not the 10% you would like to do but don’t.
@@petesahad3028 yeah i know i was between the 150/160 spectral and the 160/170 tyee
@@Taylor5084 thats the point just not being overbiked, i thing im going with the spectral cause of the stock dropper and the piggyback. Also 10mm is not that much of a difference, thanks for the insight :)
@@guillemperez5663
I own the 2022 mullet spectral, i got an extra airshock with a longer stroke. Now i can switch between the stock coil for park and shuttles and airshock for the rest (-350g). With the airshock i'm now at 155 travel, you could even go up to 160. Pretty versatile bike for sure, i recommend getting rid of the stock stem tho. The infamous creeking frog😏
@@petesahad3028 and its ugly as hell lol
I really dont know what they thought when they designed that stem
I think you just help me with the travel on my build i have been trying to buy a mtb fork the bike has 150mm of rear travel so the fork should be 150mm or 160mm ?
I would love to see this test with the same wheels & tires swapped on all of the bike. Same track. Then follow up with a second test on the same down route but include a climb for net zero elevation gain or loss. The second more closely matches a normal ride.
I'd love to see a 120/100 full suspension vs a 160mm hard tail.
geometry is more important than rear sus, so i guess an agressive hardtail will be faster down the trail.
160mm is too much for a hardtail, it fucks too much with the geometry when you bottom out.
@@flipper2gv my Ragley Mmmbop disagrees. Bike is a MONSTER with a 160 up front.
The Orbea rear suspension has a leaver that can lock the rear suspension. basically turning the bike into a 'hardtail' I have one and it is epic to ride both downhill and ba k up the trail.
I would take a tip from Nukeproof bikes and use a downhill frame and use with different length rear shock and forks
Today was the first time i felt a bit overbiked with 170 front & rear at flat grounds.
But. That was only since my rear suspension decided to only maintain 1/3th of the needed pressure 🤣 Otherwise? I love my trailbike in The Netherlands…
I do not like to go fast and sick on downhill trail..so im happy with my 120 fork hardtail plus tires
As someone who looks more into the ride than looking into the times, the cost increase as the suspension travel increase can be hard to justify. 100mm/120mm is certainly more than enough to enjoy the trails. Would I enjoy the trails more if I had more travel and can go faster? Potentially. But unless I plan on racing I wouldn't be in a rush to get more travel. The trails are fun regardless of amount of suspension travel.
I went from a 150/160 enduro bike to a 120/130 trail bike and find the short travel trail bike much more fun, the enduro bike soaked up everything, remaining planted, and made most tracks a bit boring, where the short travel trail bike is poppy, agile and responsive, while still able to handle everything the enduro bike did.
Please test different style bikes on same tires (and wheels). Tires make a huge gap in time. Backcountry bike much capable on downhills with trail/dh tires than on skinny cc tires. The same for enduro bike on uphill.
Could it be possible the times might of also been affected by the times u repeated it, knowing the turns and able to push it that wee bit? Would of liked a final finish with the 120 again at the end. Only because I just ordered one lol
If you're looking for the best downhill times, why did you buy a 120mm bike?
My fork was 140mm travel and it was great though, i rode it on the trails it's smooth and nice even when i landed the 6 feet drop it was very smooth
I’m 140 at the back. I’m always paranoid that I’ll bottom out and think I run it too stiff. I’m relatively new to this so haven’t really done jumps etc
That's what volume spacers are for.
Bottom out is nothing to be scared of, if you have your suspension set right you should bottom out now and then when a misstake occurs.
@@8o8ertmtb not really looked into spacers etc as I’ve not been doing big jumps but I want to learn them.
@@MrMarcusNilsson my suspension is set for my weight plus a little extra psi to count for my kit and beers 😂
Just doesn’t feel as bouncy as I see people’s in videos but I’ve never actually seen myself riding it to see the suspension if you know what I mean 😂
@@JMac- yeah, just dont be afraid of experimenting and let some of that air out to try. You might like it.
I woodsy that you probably picked the wrong spot to test the bikes. The trail bike is the better option for tight switch backs. Que the climb is technical and punchy the longer travel bike is harder to control. I have enduro transition patrol and I have a revel rascal. For down hill open bike parks the patrol by far but for climbing and technical switch backs the revel . I basically ride the revel most of the time
What bike is the white Orbea? Is it an Oiz?
Honestly i didn't see anything in those clips that suggested you couldn't send it in a rigid bike with plus tires and cushcore
What about take the same bikes to a trail which demands much more climb (some parts of steep climb, like 20 tp 25% ramps) and less going down on savage terrain terrain?
I mean, obviously yes. For most people being under and over biked is fun in different ways. My aggressive hard tail with 150m travel is less bike than I need nearly all the time, but keeps local trails interesting. . My 170m Enduro bike is more than warranted for where I live and ride most of the time, and when I'm feeling ballsy taking the hard tail reminds me how much I rely on that gorgeous rear coil.
I think suspension travel only makes a difference if your travel has a 40mm change. 20mm difference most will not notice. Like on EMBN that guy they had on there said "actually measuring 10mm difference is such a small change".
Hiw much mm is ur handlebar rise thank u
Yes please. Do the same experiment on the same bike. Like the reactor, add travel and remove and see what happens
I got roscoe2023 idk if i change to 25 rise of handlebar
Should do some real world comparing where you have to pedal up to the same place you started! I´ll bet the 120 mm travel will do better. For most of us the 120 mm is the best bike to have, especially if you don´t race. It´s about the fun you have.
Well I run a 180 F/R Propain Spindrift. I wanted a bike that could do everything that I ride from basic trail riding to riding some of the most rough trails around like Windrock bike park. This bike also climbs surprisingly well also.
In that case have you got the experience or know someone who has?
150 or 160 I can use on back travel but front they advise 170 but I'm curious how different 170 and 180 is since I'm tempted to slap on 180 front to do same as you do
Please do the same bike different travel that would be a great comparison to keep similar geometry even though the bike might not be made for it😂
Im hoping to get a new bike but it only has 100mm travel is that alright
Would be awesome to get a trail bike and then under/over fork it on the exact same setup.
Geometry is the other factor. Do the experiment with the same geometry specs and see how how much travel changes the times and riding experience.
I thought you were going to do the experiment on the same bike. Would like to see that test.
Better to have more and not need it, than need it and not have it. I run a 150mm and think that’s the sweet spot. 130-160mm. Then it really depends on the rider’s competence and athleticism. It’s more the rider than the bike. Just get out and ride, practice, repeat.
Where are the technical climbing bits?
You really need to gather more data. Do each run on each bike many times, ideally by several people. The order of bikes should change around. A sample of initial runs should be dropped from the data to rule out warm-up and acclimation to the track. Yes it's more work, but without it, these findings are mainly anecdotal. For example is it possible that each of your runs got faster as you became more attuned to the specific track that day? Or would the larger travel bike have been even faster if you were fresh for each run? You can't answer any questions like this with the approach in the video.
Jesse's Melamed bike choice for the EWS (or however it is called now) races shows, that you may be better with less travel than you think.
Record the times doing the trail back up hill
As usual, nice work. However, why, why, always with nothing but the downhill. Why not do the same test, but uphill for a big change? Most riders don't use internal combustion machinery to haul their bikes to the top.
For me it does. I run 150+mm at all times. Anything less and my back will hurt so bad i cant walk for the next week.
Maybe add the DH bike next time as well
What about looking at hardtail travel and how that compares? I went from a 100mm XC hardtail to an aggressive trail/enduro 150mm hardtail and they're worlds apart
How much travel do free forks from my local bike shop have?!? I heard that bike shops just give away forks if you ask nicely…. 😅
I enjoyed the video but it doesn’t reflect most people’s experience of riding for a few hours per session. I suspect the results would be very different if you did at least an hour on each bike.
Times are important for a racer but my priority is fun every time!
Changing the tyres would change the times. Look at the tyres on the XC bike. Cannot compare them to the other two bikes
If you wanted an honest comparison you should have recorded up and down times. You could disaggregate those two times and also looked at the cumulative time overall to paint a better picture. You have to get up to go down it’s the inevitable fact of mountain biking.
Same trail but ride back up ?
I would like to see back to back on the same bike with different travels. It would take other bike characteristics such as geometry, weight, and tires out of it. Oh, sorry, Tyres.
I just need a shock that doesn't leak air 😅
Me with my 175/180mm canyon torque: well where do I fit in 😂
Great idea. Make that video
Surely travel is just a simple way of trying to describe the intended use of the bike, bur we would also have to look at geometry, stiffness etc. You could have a burly Enduro bike with shorter travel (slopestyle?), and I suppose a long-travel XC bike...
Try same bike while adjusting travel 160 then 130 then 100
Try on 120/130 bike. Something like a Giant Trance.
Treks Supercaliber small rear shock left out of this test…
Use the same tires... Same psi. 😊
Different tires too.
Nice
Great video 😃 Yes I think so 😎
where 0mm travel mtbs at. I want hardtails in this
Yes. 500mm at least
Idk if it does but I can guarantee you that pedal height matters in the Oregon Jungles lol
I know 150/125mm does absolutely everything and does it well. Even on 26" wheels.
Is this in the Mendips?
Yes it does. I went from 100 to 150 from hardtail to fully and there is no comparison...now I'm upgrading to 160 because the terrain I ride weekly is rough and steep.
The sweet spot is 100mm rear travel and a 140mm travel front fork for all types of riding.
i run 140/120 with a remote rear lockout and it's the sweet spot for me
These runs are done all downhill so the DH bike of course will win. If you had of done a loop then it probably would have been different as you can lose huge time uphill compared to downhill. It shows that if you catch chairlifts to the top and bomb down then you need a DH bike, but if you ride trails and forests then the others will come into play.
So the bike best designed for descending was quickest at descents... 🤷🏼♂️ The one designed best for covering alot or milage last.... 🤷🏼♂️ And the one designed best to.mix N match both in the middle 🤷🏼♂️ not sure what we've learnt.... Ride the most appropriate type maybe... 😂
every trail I ride you have to go up as much as down to get to where you started. Why not ride the trail backwards and time them. XC bikes (100/120) are now 115/120 and 5 lbs lighter than the trail bikes for the same money.
GF superfly 100
Answer to the question posed by this video should have been very self-evident-- but since it was not, in other news, water IS wet.