Do You Really Need A Dropper Seat Post? | XC Vs Enduro
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- čas přidán 7. 04. 2023
- Changing the saddle height on the fly so that it’s at the correct height for pedaling, yet out the way enough for riding downhill sections is important, but how important is it? Do you really need a dropper seat post for mountain biking? You might be screaming at your computer “of course you do!”, but do you really? In this video, Rich Payne tried to find out!
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Do you ride with a dropper seat post? If you do, do you think you could ride properly without one?
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You need a dropper after you’ve used one once and see how useful they are
I dont need one even after trying- but i understand why others may.
Dropper post is essential only if its in reasonable price if you go 150 and up it is not worth the cost
@@marklouieadame Do you buy wire bead tires too?
@@petedog9581 yeah it way stronger heavy and perfect for Enduro and Downhill. What is the benefit of folding? It just folds for storage thats it lol
@@marklouieadame All the Enduro pros dumped the double down casing and go with the wire bead tires and tubes. LOL. Wire bead tires would blow off the rim on big impacts. Besides, how can you run wire bead and go tubeless? I rode those crappy tires for decades. They still suck.
Hot take:
A dropper is more important in modern XC racing where the ups and downs all count, than competetive enduro. There's no reason you couldn't just drop the saddle old school with a quick clamp before your next timed descent and raise it old school for the next ascent.
Exacto
Accurate take! If you do a lot of up, then a long down you can take 30 seconds to adjust the seat. In my rocky, rooty, up and down every minute terrain, I'd still take a dropper over rear and/or fork shocks any day.
I honestly wonder why I don't see more xc racers running them with the modern courses with steep rollers, drops and short but chunky descents
@@pwn3d_d1rt Weight. XC riders are basically roadies on off-road tracks (not to be confused with gravel bikes). They try to shave as much weight as possible and droppers weigh more. Rich may have proven that point moot though. With the time savings on every descent, you could come out ahead even with the extra weight. XC riders just adopted full suspension in recent years because the benefits outweighed (no pun intended) the weight penalty.
Enduro stages can and do have punchy climbs on them, so it's not unheard of for enduro racers to raise the dropper mid-stage when they're in a pedally bit.
I love my dropper not only on the trails, but also when riding around town. You can just lower your seat at a traffic light and chill comfortably on the saddle waiting for the light to turn.
I thought it's just a fancy tool or a luxury. Then I tried one and made riding more convenient. Now I can't fully enjoy the trails without one. 👌
Same here: my next bike must have a dropper post because now I find myself always lowering the seat post whenever I hit some trail and it would be easier to do it from the handlebars 🤣
I would like to see more xc mtb stuff on gcn+ not just the racing but also features on xc bikes
A quick release seatclamp is all I need
This subject seems to come up alot. I race XC and have used a standard seatpost for years and will continue to do so (and thus will save money, weight, maintenance). However, World Cup XC courses are becoming more and more technical but for the regional races I compete in, you simply do not need one. Alot will depend on the terrain/courses you ride so I see both sides of this discussion.
Neil did a similar video years ago. The dropper was the equivalent of 2/3 lb more than without. The time he saved with the dropper was quite a bit over having a standard seat post. Not to mention, you lose more weight by using the bathroom. You can try to justify it however you like, but you're really only holding yourself back. Especially if much of your competition isn't using them.
I actually find myself using mine quite a bit on trail that is more tuned to XC riders.
Getting harder to find a standard mountain bike post these days. Who makes a nice standard seat post in 30.9mm ?
This doesn't seem like a good test because you don't have to have your seat up quite so high and that will get the same result as with the dropper. You can also develop better skills related to moving around on the bike with your seat at a particular height. I have a dropper on my trail bike but I rarely use it even on jumps. I don't feel like my seat really gets in the way.
Got a dropper with my first carbon bike and never looked back, so convenient and useful!
I can't downhill anymore, due to sport injuries, however I find a dropper very handy in the hills and mountain roads and paths where I live. Some are very steep and lowering my centre of gravity really helps
I started mountainbiking with an XC hardtail riding mostly XC stuffs. All the while being a non lycra rider decked out in t shirt and baggies 😁 Then I discover the wonderful world of technical singletrack and quickly find out that snagging the crotch of my baggies whenever I move my bum back is no fun at all 😀 Out come the dropper with saddle lever then upgraded to external cable. Nowadays I mostly ride my all mountain steed so dropper is no brainer. Conclusion, yes I need them 😊
ps btw I still got that dropper on my xc hardtail 😁
Watching Gmbn videos is the highlight of my day
Same here!
Thanks so much for the support! All the best and safe riding!
To me is getting the seat outta the way essential, when it comes to descending. You could use a solid seat post with a quick release. But if your ride got plenty alternating ascends and descends it can be really annoying. Ever since I had my first bike with a dropper wouldn’t wanna miss it.
I’ve been off and on droppers since they hit the market “20 years ago “. They definitely add some value on really chunky terrain or jumping. But for most trail riding, they are definitely a “want”, not a “need”. For newer riders, or people who are not comfortable with their bike handling skills, they provide a lot more value. but I’ve spent full days at the bike park and podiumed in an Enduro race running an rigid seat post. Currently have them on both of my bikes, but also have fixed posts for both bikes sitting on my bench.
Who's making a nice rigid post these days in 30.9 ? Thanks!
Exclusively XC rider and weekend racer here and I was staunchly anti dropper until I did a cornering clinic a few weeks ago. Bike body separation is so much better with a dropper. Nearly impossible at 6'3" on an XL Trek Supercaliber before I put a dropper on. It has imoroved my corner speed as much as anything I've ever tried, including clinics and tons of drills and focused practice. I've ordered low end droppers for both of my training bikes now.
Almost every XC racer uses one. So yes, you do need one.
I ordered a dropper post for my Orbea Oiz but the bike shop is waiting for a part from Orbea. Been months now, but once it is in, I will definitely go out an play!. Thanks Rich for this informative video.
I’m still in the days of manual quick release seat clamp, dropping the seat at top of the climb😅
Very useful on a HT when the front compresses.
Definitely yes. Always. It should be mandatory.
I endo'd off my bmx as a kid so much that a dropper was an absolute game changer for me.
Have tried some dropper posts before, even tho I want one, my current XC bike doesn't have one and I don't think it's a necessity, sometimes trails do get steep and technical and a dropper would be useful, but most trails that I ride, I could ride without a dropper
at 5’7” i don’t…but i see most people slam their droppers too low (below knee level) and lose an important contact point for bike control…you want a seat to be at least above your knee by a few inches so you can grip it between your inner thighs…
I love my dropper! Great for the longer rides
Yeah, it's one of the top inventions for mountain biking. I got out of mtb for about six years and got back into it last year with a new but leftover 21 Rocky Mountain Growler 20. The first thing I did was install A PNW dropper and grips onto it . Then I found a used take-off Marzocchi Z1 that I lowered to 140mm of travel. Then I threw on the Formula "One" FR/DH brakes I kept the past decade.
It's a fun and capable hardtail and I thank GMBN for all of their fun hardtail content! Cheers from the US! 🍻
It was more of a safety feature for me, as I'm 6'7" riding a XXL bike, there were times I just needed to put my feet on the ground quickly, dropper helps a lot. Now that I have it though, it has so many more benefits, I don't think I could live without one
I never thought of that!
I put one on my entry level hardtail and find it convenient not only on the trails but in urban environment because it’s very hilly here and the road are not always on the best condition so it’s best to shift your weight so that you don’t go OTB.
Solid - I just drop it manually prior to dropping into a trail (I don't generally use the saddle off road), and return back to normal height when I'm done.
Nope - I report spam from spam bots...
I'm old and don't ride hard. Instead of a dropper, I've installed a Cane Creek Thud Buster for comfort on my hardtail. (As you near 70 you don't do as much standing on the pedals as you used to )
The trail I ride most is a black diamond with lots of ups and downs in quick succession, and some are really steep. Without the dropper I'd have to either keep stopping or my legs would die. Before I had the dropper I had to take breaks to rest my legs. Now I don't need to take breaks. Also my nuts have thanked me in retrospect many many times.
Im old school. We rode tech trail with high post. I am used to It, can ride mostly anything like that
I dont see It as a necessity, I dont need It, I am happy with an quick release clamp and dropping the seat manually.
Dropper for pros and xc/enduro racing. For normal recreational rides not needed for me.
I ride XC trails and ride hardtails. I bought a new Pivot Les SL and had a dropper put on it. I came off of a Santa Cruz Highball 27.5 with a solid 27.2 carbon post on it. I rode the Pivot for a few weeks and I thought I had made a mistake by buying another hardtail because it was so harsh of a ride on most of the trails in general. I finally decided to pull the dropper and put the carbon 27.2 post from the Santa Cruz on my new Pivot. It completely changed my bike. The 27.2 carbon post has so much movement that it smoothed up the ride a lot. I remember when I got the Santa Cruz in 2015 they had just changed the seat post size down to the 27.2 just for that reason too. So to me there is a lot more than a weight factor to the dropper on an XC bike. I see the place for it but after I rode it for a few week on a hardtail the movement of a 27.2 carbon post outweighed the benefits of the dropper for me.
I didn’t think I needed a dropped until I started riding real rocky terrain. That my key difference between barely surviving a rocky DH and falling in love with them.
🤔bought my first dropper about a month ago, don't think i would ever go back to a rigid one👌total game changer👍
2:42 I don't have my seat at the very top for climbing, only for street riding. The adjustment is another pro for the 100% necessary dropper post.
fitted one to my 29er HT yesterday am out on it tomorrow... looking forward to no more manually slamming the seat, YAY!!
Why with the saddle ALL THE WAY UP?
Just carry an Allen key, and if it is quick release, even better.
My thoughts exactly. What a crap test 😂.. today we found out that a bike decends faster with the seat low. Wow, who would have thought that 😂
with a quickrelease lever you can drop your seat before hitting the downtrail...but you will need to stop at the bottom to raise your seat again!..i just ordered a dropper..😊.
and if its undulating?
@@laurynasjagelo5075 I think the point is if you dropped the seat at the top of the trail and timed it, you'd be just as fast as the bike with a dropper as both seats would be at the same height. The test was pointless
@@adam.677 Oh absolutely agree that the test itself is pointless; this is just an "excuse" for marketing bikes / parts etc.
For the sakes of argument, it takes no science degree to understand that it saves energy / faff for general riding, and its nice to adjust on the saddle heigh on the spot for wheelies and tech climbs etc.
No denying that for bike park or pedal & plummet riding rigid's a suitable alternative.
still nice to have.
Was on the fence on getting one but once I tested it, I never looked back.
Heck, I even got it on my flatbar touring bike. It's that convenient.
I put a cheap dropper on my 2014 Cannondale trail with a 27.2 tube, took a bit of finding, but it completely changed my rides. Wouldn’t be without it, and for 80 quid it was a bargain!!!
my wife is a beginner rider and she sometimes gets nervous dismounting a bike, she loves the dropper post just so she can put a foot down on the ground
I could make the quick release as a form of manuel dropper . I am sure some riders could quick release there seatpost riding either dropping it or raising it back up .
I was contemplating buying one for my new e-bike ( Cube Reaction ) now I know 👍🏻
I was just thinking about quick release seat clamps. Seems like a compromise, obviously not as good as a dropper, but better than tooled clamp for versatility.
I’m not an Olympic athlete by any stretch, but for me dropping the seat down to get on the bike, or dropping when stopped so I can easily reach the ground is such a great creature comfort that I’d never go back to rigid.
Have you considered that on properly set seat post height you shouldn't be able to touch the ground with your feet? I'm using a dropper on my oiz for the same thing as well.
@Pin Ky seat to pedal height is not the same as seat to floor height.mtbs usually have a high bottom bracket height
Completely agree with you, being able to stay seated when stopped is really handy
@Pin Ky I have short legs and a long torso and although I can reach on the ball of my foot it’s a lot easier to drop the post and sit flat footed. But, hey thanks for being an elitist. 🙄
Just pointing out a side benefit of the tech (which others apparently also find very useful) vs the typical mtb community mantra of “going faster is the only thing that matters”.
I just ordered my first dropper post !
I don’t have one and it sucks having to interrupt my rides to slam the seat down only to stop again and raise it back up for a climb. I converted my cheaper hard tail into a street bike and am thinking of putting a dropper on that one too, because bombing stairs is no fun with the seat raised.
For all my XC riding (no comps) a quick release clamp is enough. It takes seconds to adjust. Racing on the other hand, completely necessary!
My first " modern mountain bike" was a 2009 Specialized Enduro without a dropper post. The frame was a little small for me and I had the post basically at its limit. My next bike was a 2013 Stumpjumper EVO, with a dropper post.
There is no way I am ever going back to a bike without a dropper post. The only time is if I have to rent some townie to ride around in Europe.
Depends on where you live. In the Midwest USA, we have only like 500ft of elevation change over 10 miles on most trails, and most of the elevation change is very gradual. By the time you drop your post and get into position the descent is over so what's the point.
This could have been a one minute video, but thanks for the measurements 😄
Of course. Having only in the last couple of years fitted a dropper. The difference is amazing. Even the annoying faff of my Hydraulic post can be overlooked once on the trail and it's doing its job. Only other thoughts is ... what is the ultimate drop length based on height and is one method cable, Hydraulic, or wireless much lighter/better??
YES! When you only have a 26.5 inch inseam, every little extra bit of leg room to compress or bike/body separation is needed!
I asked my mechanic this week to install one on my xc bike... I'll give my feedback next weekend, but I have a feeling that I won't regret...
I raced with a Hite Rite on my mt bike in the 80’s and 90’s and found it too fiddly to use very often. Also, the XC courses back then were much less technical to accommodate the rigid bikes and bad brakes we were riding.
Yes, yes, and yes
Makes one bike more versatile in many ways
how about a timed run with the time it takes to manually dropping the post vs a dropper at the start
That is what they should have done .. all there test tells us is that it's faster to decent with your seat low. That's pretty obvious to everyone, and you don't need a dropper for that. Normal seat posts can be low. it's just annoying and takes times out the day. Ps. I prefer a dropper post 100% ... Just stating the obvious
Can't go wrong with a Fox transfer dropper! 🤘
Solid seat, as did Whole Echalita, in Moab on Scapel Hi mod no problem, comes down to skill set.
I am very new to mountain biking (thanks to my MTB obsessed son that I now have to try and keep up with) and I was riding FOD this week so this video caught my ears and eyes for a number of reasons.
I hired a bike a couple of years ago at Bike Park Wales which was my first ever experience of a dropper and I said at the time that it was the single most enjoyable thing about the bike.
When I then bought a bike I had a dropper installed because I kind of felt once you have had one you can't go back.
Earlier this week I was hurtling down Countdown wondering why I was feeling so bloody sketchy on such a flowy trail and I suddenly realised that I hadn't dropped my seat (duh!)
So even for a pretty crap mountain biker like me - I would say a dropper is bloody essential because the ability to move around the bike is so important and you only realise how important when you find yourself unable to.
(And yeah - also nice to have in town when pulled up at lights - whoever said that ;o) )
For me its no on cross country riding, yes for trail single track and for xc racing in the south east it will depend on the courses. I've found most of the southern xc courses are not gnarly enough for a dropper and the added weight. I've taken to going to a race with a dropper fitted and after a practice if its not needed I'll swap it over. The joy of an external cables and posts with the same saddle fitted😊
really really need and important
One of the best mountain biking channels
The best?! 😂😂
I love my dropper! Way more flexibility to riding styles we run into.
They're a convenience and/or performance enhancement, just like gears, suspension or a motor.
If I break a dropper post cable and I have to decide what static position to put my dropper in I'm going to set it in the down position every time
I can't say I love my dropper post but I did start out on a 27-5 hardtail I couldn't see myself going back to original seatpost
Neil did a similar video and proved that the better time from having a dropper on an XC bike way exceeds the 2/3rds lb you save from having not one.
Still haven’t got used to not being able to hold onto something with your legs, coming from motocross. Will have to do more practice with no seat to latch on to 😄
no mate, you actually need the seat to be above your knees…most mtnbike riders with droppers put their seats too low and lose control/stability of their ride…
Let's put it this way: very few innovations have stuck with mountain biking in general the last 40 years or so. So when something sticks around this long and becomes this much of a staple, there's a reason for it.
I have a PNW dropper on order for my hardtail. I needs it!
Tried it but dont need one on my P7 hardtail. Before longer descents i just lower my rigid post. No need to add unnecessary weight to my bike.
Once I tried a dropper I wanted to never use a rigid post again.
I was bummed when my dropper cable snapped on a ride! Hard to go back to ridged when you get used to a dropper!
Dropperpost or no riding for me. On my Oiz a 100 mm and on my Rise 150 mm. Funny to see this old metalspring dropper like thing. I used it back then in the nineties, but so happy with todays technology 🤩
I ruptured a disc in my neck close to 27 yrs ago when I went OTB and landed on my neck. I was on basically a first gen “proper MTB” - of course no dropper because they did not exist. The event was life changing - in a negative way. Pretty much quite all biking for a decade because of constant neck pain. All my mtbs now have droppers. I would NEVER recommend anyone off road riding without one. It’s a SAFETY feature first and foremost IMO.
After using a dropper post I would never have a bike without one. If I'm not riding single track, I find it good even when I'm riding around town in traffic.
Quick release clamp and slam post when going dowb,yeah dropper if riding every terrain 😮
Been droppin since 2010. Once you drop, you cant stop.
Great video 😃 at first I didn't want it 😵💫 I thought when do you use something like that 🤷♀️ Now that I have one I don't want to be without it 😃😃
I ride an XC bike. But I don't race at all. So I do the old school way. When I feel I need to drop my saddle, I just stop and lower the seat post. So I save weight and some € as well. Let alone headaches and maintenance.
Great idea but i wish you tested in a realistic hybrid position that most of us would use when trying to find a sweet spot between descending and ascending. I think a lot of us would have a bias towards the downs like myself. You could have tested going up hill too, which wont be fun but would be great content and perspective for the non dropper post riders.
UNREAL!
Dropper should be a must/standard on any bike! Drop for sure!🙌🏻
When do they develope a switch to lower it as well, that could be nice.
I like droppers so much I run one on my road bike.
A dropper is a game changer! Need is a strong word because of course someone can choose to go without one and suffer through the technical stuff with a seat in the way. It is definitely one of the most important inventions in mountain biking.
As for saving weight on an XC bike? Here's your next video. Do an XC course with a dropper and one without a dropper and time it. I am almost positive adding the additional weight of a dropper post to an XC bike will make little to no difference in lap times.
Droppers are clearly not necessary to ride, they aren’t a “need” but they certainly do help and I would equate them to other gear like a suspension upgrade or a clutched derailleur. They are one of the biggest upgrades to a bike, but again they aren’t necessary to get out on the trails.
Dude the dropper is no gimmick. I run that teck on all my bikes minis the dirt jumper.
It would have been nice to see a comparison with and without a dropper on a hard tail :-).
It's essential on modern geo bikes and the riding style for modern geo (centered over the BB), modern geo is designed around having a dropper. Old school geo and riding style where you ride off the back of the bike all the time could work without a dropper. I would definitely never ride without a dropper again.
I love that you naked the bikes “Ron Bergundy” (though I’m wondering why since it’s white) and “Goldmember” (which is obvious.) Now I have to name mine!
I got "convinced" to buy a dropper post after one day at a trail centre where I had to adjust the height of my saddle multiple times.
Low seat is good (especially when wearing loose shorts) but you don't need expensive and weighty dropper post to lower your seat.
I don't need a dropper on my bamboo road bike but I'll never go without on a MTB!
That was not even the whole story. On the XC bike, I often find myself lowering the saddle only by a cm or so when it comes to fast up and down over roots and rocks. Not to get out of the saddle, just to have a bit more wiggle room when it gets sketchy.
Interesting but not surprising results Rich. Guessing this is what you were filming when my Army Cadet crashed on the launchpad and you shouted over a few days ago. 👍
I am not a racer, and fairly new to actual mountain bikeing (road cyclist), but I like to challenge myself on different tracks. So, I do find myself on some steep downhills. I am wondering what other uses can a dropper bring to everyday MTBiking, including urban strrets, and would those benifits justify pulling the post from my bike and conducting maintenance on it?
In the first run did anyone else think rich had windscreen wipers on his GoPro? The hoodie cords were swinging 😂
A dropper is the best thing ever!