Ted Naiman confessional... Mistakes, unlearning and learning in Ketoland
Vložit
- čas přidán 30. 01. 2021
- It was SO much fun to finally get to chat Ted Naiman and discuss all that we've learned (and had to unlearn) over the last five years.
Ted has done heaps of interviews and podcasts about what he now believes, so I wanted to dig behind the memes to understand how he has changed what he believes.
We covered:
Why he now believes the Carb Insulin Hypothesis is dead.
What does insulin really do?
The Personal Fat Threshold
Energy Toxicity
Protein Leverage
Food quality
Nutrient density
The limitations of extended fasting.
The most common advice that he gives his patients that works every time.
Advice for someone just starting on their journey?
What Ted's daily eating routine looks.
Does Ted take supplements?
What are the top five foods you eat most often?
How do you motivate clients when they are not able to comply fully?
Thoughts on biohacking?
Ted's dreams for the future of nutrition.
I hope you have as much fun listening in as we did chatting.
Links
- Blog - optimisingnutrition.com/blog
- Data-Driven Fasting - www.datadrivenfasting.com
- Nutrient Optimiser - nutrientoptimiser.com
- Podcast - optimisingnutrition.com/categ...
Follow
- Facebook - / optimisingnutrition
- Twitter - / martykendall2
- Instagram - / martykendall76
- Pinterest - www.pinterest.com.au/optimisi...
Products
- Big Fat Keto Lies (Book) - www.bigfatketolies.com/big-fa...
- NutriBooster Recipe Books - optimisingnutrition.com/optim...
- Data-Driven Fasting 30 Day Challenge - www.datadrivenfasting.com/optin
- Nutritional Optimisation Masterclass - optimisingnutrition.com/challenge
Groups
- NutriBooster Recipes - / healthylowcarbketorecipes
- Optimising Nutrition - / optimisingnutrition
- Data-Driven Fasting - / datadrivenfasting
- Nutrient Optimiser - / nutrientoptimiser
Love Ted Naiman and that he isn't branding his own trendy spin on diet. He eschews dogma, isn't selling supplements, and just puts forth the facts. Oh, and he hates biohacking. I love this guy. :)
Absolutely!!
Hear hear. That's what always bugs me about various health/nutrition practitioners. Always selling something. It's a conflict of interest, plain and simple, ideology notwithstanding. Chiropractors do that. Naturopaths. TCMers. And as we can all plainly see with Paul Saladino, medical doctors.
So, he’s saying eat a lower carb diet with plenty of protein?
@@greggray3741 protein equal in grams to your ideal or desired weight. The grams of protein should be about 10 % to 15% more than the combined carb and fat grams to lose weight.
My lipid panel was perfect yet I was morbidly obese and went on to be diagnosed with T2DM.
His premise is inaccurate at least for me.
Whilst a bit of carbs may work for some, Anything over 5-10grams per meal is disaster for me.
High BG, acute hyperphagia, anxiety etc, usually follow when I have any carb excursions above my 5-10grams of carbs per meal ceiling.
My energy has to be from something and for me, its FAT and Protein. (I exercise my protein is capped at 1.5-1.7grams per kg of my weight.
The rest of my calories is from saturated fat.
I’ve sat and read the PE diet in two days. Finally my mind is made up and I know how to eat properly. I’ve been so confused but Dr Naiman has answered all my questions and he made everything so simple. I bought the Kindle book but just had to order the real book. Really expensive but now I won’t be buying so much food it will pay for itself. Four days in and I have a lot of problems to solve but I know in a few months I will be so much better. I can’t thank Dr Naiman enough. Shame it took me so many years to get my mind made up. I'm too old to keep living like I am.
May we have an update?
I know this is an older interview but I can’t tell you how much I appreciate it. I am actually circling back to P:E after being Ketovore for a minute. The whole KETO / Carnivore thing is not sustainable for me. For one things it’s exceedingly boring and I am lost my personal confidence in the long term health benefits after suffering a stint with gout for the first time ever at 64 YO. I ran across Ted Naiman back in 2014 when I first went LCHF and lost 60lbs over 10 months and bought his book when first published. I am rereading it and implementing his guidelines. My wife who is quite fit and healthy is more of a Mediterranean adherent and she is quite happy that I am now including more veg, salads and fruit back I into my diet. And I feel and look perfectly fine. Thanks guys for this interview!
awesome. so good to hear. Ted is a legend!
Love, love, love this interview! I’m a registered dietitian and am totally on board with ALL that was spoken about here. Totally appreciate the way you two have highlighted the true role of insulin. I’ve advocated for lower carb approaches since 1997 when I first became an RD. I have tried all manner of approaches myself, even vegan, but eventually latched onto keto (in a similar manner as you guys described). When I saw that it wasn’t giving me the results I wanted (too much fat!) I made a switch. I’m now a lifetime fan of the PE approach, and focusing on nutrient density. Thanks to both of you for the insights you have given the nutrition world. So interesting that engineers are forging the trail (each of you with your unique but sometimes overlapping histories). I refer patients to both of your websites, videos, podcast interviews, etc. And I might have used a few of Ted’s memes on my own handouts. :) Carry on with your outstanding work and thanks for making it so ACCESSIBLE.
awesome! congrats on your progress. lots of people seem to moving on from 'keto' to a more nutrient focused high satiety dietary approach.
Extended fasting is NOT for weight loss but it has its place for health. Autophagy peaks after 3 days water fasting then tails off by day 5. In my opinion it is wonderful for reversal of auto immune diseases, cancer prevention etc.
I don't use extended fasting to lose fat. But I never do extended fasting unless I have some extra fat to burn. I would never fast when my weight is too low because that wouldn't be healthy. Still, even fasting for 5 days is not going to cause much fat loss. I just did a 3 day fast and went for a jog on the 3rd day, and yet didn't burn that much fat, maybe 6 lbs at most.
Nonetheless, fasting long enough will cause fat burning. There are some medically recorded cases of people losing 100s of lbs by fasting for almost a year or more than a year, under medical supervision of course. The body doesn't only store fat but also nutrients, particularly in the fat cells. With very long fasts, a multivitamin and some trace minerals along with plenty of water will keep one healthy.
we actually don't know that much about autophagy in humans (other than not being obese is a good thing). you just need to find a way of eating and living the enables you to sustainably optimise your body composition. optimisingnutrition.com/what-makes-ddf-different-faq-part-1-2/#htoc-1-9-will-i-be-getting-enough-autophagy-with-data-driven-fasting
@@optimisingnutrition - That might be a valid point. I'd love to see you interview an autophagy researcher. Have you done that yet? I'm always a big fan of hearing discussion of such topics. That is why I follow your channel.
Don't forget physical exertion can also cause autophagy, if your lean and fit and workout a lot going 16hrs fasting as well as regular strenuous exercise may be equivalent to sedentary folks fasting much longer. Also as magical as autophagy sounds, its catabolism and too much will have consequences long term. I personally fast a little longer than Ted mentions at around 20hr with a once per week 24hr and I workout fairly strenuously - but I also focus on getting ample protein and nutrients in my eating windows. I am also not opposed to situational extended fasts for purpose, for example I have a back injury and have done some more extended (3-4 days but also not active) and have found it helps some with inflammation, but when I tried to do this more often it backfired big time. All in all there is some bio-diversity in all of us, there really is no set plan that works for 100% of the people perfectly, nor does one plan work for your entire changing lifespan you may have to adapt and change as things change.
Ted Naiman and Ben Bikman explain insulins role so effortlessly and simply. I thoroughly enjoy these talks
Yet they don't really agree on the details. I love Bikman, but I'm team Ted for sure.
I think it’s much more useful to think about energy toxicity leading to insulin toxicity. Satiety/P:E/nutrient density is the solution (not just swapping carbs for fat).
I really needed to see this! It helps my confusion in regards to the constant tweaking of my diet. Thank you for the talk and sharing!
cheers. glad you enjoyed it.
Two of my favourite people. Thanks to you both for all you do.
thanks. you're welcome.
I always love how engineers make things so succinct and clear :) Great job!
thanks Cynthia. it's just a fascinating numbers game.
Very helpful interview. Thank you and love Ted Laiman
thanks. glad you enjoyed!
What a fabulous interview and presentation. Loved it!
Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed it. This was fun.
Thank you guys, great information that makes so much sense!
Glad it was helpful!
Ted you always have an excellent way of explaining deep nutritional science in a visual way.👍
yeah. Ted is the master of simple communication!
Excellent discussion, thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it!
This video is gold. I wanna thank Ted and Marty! Sometimes the most useful knowledge for us might not be the most popular.
often the most important advice doesn't confirm your current biases. we're just a couple of engineers trying to sort through the data on what helps people be healthier.
Really great job guys. Thanks.
thanks so much!
Thank you for bringing two giants of the nutritional world, Marty.
it was great! lots of fun. glad you enjoyed it too!
Q
As a 67 yr old stroke survivor I absolutely loved the information I've been given here! As I've reduced the blockages in my carotid arteries by over 50% with Keto, this is so very precious to me. Going to back down on the fat as the 20lbs I lost is creeping back up. Thanks, this is gold. Thank you, gentleman.
thanks. lowering carbs is often the first helpful step for many. dropping fat and prioritising protein and nutrients often takes people to their goal.
Thanks, and I use nattokinase, too!
Awesome video! Nice work both of you.
Thanks so much!
I’ve been giving health and fitness advice for more than 1/3 of a century and that was one of the best talks I’ve heard
wow! that's so awesome to hear! it was a ton of fun to chat with Ted about all our mistakes over the years.
Really great information, thanks
Glad you enjoyed it!
I've followed both of your phenomenal work for awhile now, and I just took down 5 pages of notes watching this video over several hours; excellent job! I will be "prescribing" this video now to all my overweight patients, together with research how to optimize micronutrients in addition to Dr. Naiman's book. Cheers!
thank you so much!
Do some mire research. Listen to some other experts. Everything Marty and Ted say is not gospel.
Thanks so much to you both for sharing such important information so freely, and the time you give so we can improve our health. I was wondering what Dr Naiman did with his ground beef (minced beef in Aus).
I imagine he fries it up with minimal added fat. but not sure.
Excellent work, thank you both. I'm gonna bring my trigs down after them being high for too long, despite being thin. And time to shave down that visceral fat. And I suspect my fasting BG will come down as well. I appreciate you guys.
Cheers. Really glad you found it useful!
How's it going Bill? Have you noticed any results yet?
CZcams educate us T2D better then my pcp and dietitionist. I was told to eat every two hours! I ate whole grains, wheat bread, watch fat, salt, and sugar intake per my dietitionist. My blood glucose skyrocket after every meals. My body doesnt even have time to burn them calorics bc im being told to eat every two hours.
I no longer do what they recommended and did the opposite by doing IF and Keto. LCHF seems to help a lot in keeping my blood glucose below 195! Its been reading below 100 now and i did manage to loose 30 pounds. I just changed the diet bc what they recommended. I thought i give it a try for a few week and if it didnt help i would go back to my dietition advive but i see good results.
congrats on your progress!
Awesome!
Wow. Broke free of SDA. That alone makes you guys heroes to me. Great interview.
Love Ted. He’s. Genius. And he loves you so respect!
we are very much on the same page.
Such a timely discovery for me - been keto 2yrs but plateaued after 15kg loss. I know now I'm having too much fat. Also loved listening to these guys because I have the same SDA background and my keto journey has been a huge dietary unlearning experience (although, I'd probably still be tempted by a gluten steak if one was put in front of me 😬)
if you came from an SDA background, you should check out my chat with Belinda Fettke that just went live.
A month or so ago I began a "ketovore" experiment. Basically I've cut out all veg and increased animal protein and egg intake. During our recent 3 week COVID lockdown, I didn't exercise at all but managed to loose 6 lbs. Granted I cut out a small meal which I'd normally consume on training days (~800 cal) but it doesn't equate to 6 lbs using CICO. I've been much more satiated during this month, slower digestion but better stools, less bloating, more satiated especially after dinner. I intend to do this for about another month then I'll reintroduce veg. Thanks for the great content.
cheers! low carb/keto/carnivore often helps us get adequate protein. with that foundation in place, we can dial things in from there.
water weight counts!!
Did you track body fat loss? Exercise actually has only marginal effect on weight loss because the more you burn exercising, the less you burn on other processes. (Herman Pontzer). But exercise has a boat load of other useful effects for longevity. I hope you added it back.
My opinion is that the most important thing in nutrition is to give preference not to processed, but to natural foods. That's enough. Protein, as the substance that causes the greatest satiety, strongly affects the feeling of hunger. By monitoring blood glucose levels with different diets I found out the following:1. Processed foods raise glucose significantly more than natural foods. 2. Only carbohydrates raise glucose quickly, but it also drops quickly. 3. The combination of carbohydrates and proteins or carbohydrates and fats raises the glucose level for a long time. It's impossible to predict! For me, the optimal meal was once a day, in the evening. In this case, the blood glucose level is low and stable. When eating twice a day, you have to limit the size of portions, otherwise you overeat. Summary: The quality and composition of the foods you eat and their quantity are important. If these are processed foods and you overeat, then you will have health problems.
Good summary!
Are you carnivore.
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it
Love Ted's ability to succinctly communicate these concepts
I link this video to Diet Religion people a lot as it really breaks down a lot of the dogma
thanks for sharing! this also may be of interest! optimisingnutrition.com/belief-based-nutrition/
The huge problem with high fat foods made low fat is that the fat is replaced with sugar. Whole foods reign
hard to go wrong with minimally processed foods.
Remember Snackwells cookies? They're fat free so you can eat all you want. I feel sick just thinking about it.
I couldn’t do Naimans ultra low fat diet mostly I need some fat for flavour. Butter with veg or an a rib eye mainly but don’t need to go crazy.. helps with satiety I find
Or if you have low fat versions of certain foods without adding sugar instead they are just uggh and so bland
Have been doing this for a week. Dropped the fat, eating more and leaner protein plus adding carb at the end of the day. I feel much better...wow
yeah. it's pretty simple. protein and nutrient density are highly correlated.
@@optimisingnutrition having gone zero carb for a few months I'm nervous about adding some back in 🤣
I'll stick to Jason fung and ivor Cummins, this is a bodybuilding diet, muddy'ing to much water, I'll stick to ketosis and intermittent fasting, lost 4 stone and reversed my type 2 diabetes, same weight as when I was 22 now 62 enough said.
When Naiman talks about fasting, it never really sounds like a topic for which he's well versed or researched. Fung throws up research all the time showing that lean mass is preserved. And hunger? I've fasted 10 days (not continuous) already this month with no hunger, which I attribute to ensuring I was in ketosis before starting and doing mostly carnivore on feed days. Plus, there is the weird red-herring about fasting and then going back to an eat anything diet. Well, if you eat the P/E Diet (or any effective diet) for 4 days and go back to an EAD, you'll gain the weight back. Even the original American fasters, such as the Natural Hygienists, represented today by Dr. Goldhamer at TrueNorth Health Center, use the fast as a tastebud reset for the plant-based diet they advocate. I see fasting as an adjunct for a healthier diet, not a panacea for a bad one.
P/E Diet (and exercise advice) is fascinating, but Naiman has a lane (or two) and seems to falter when he runs outside of it.
@@darkpatches I'm with you on the fasting thing, I have eaten NOTHING for 21 days and after a couple of days, all the things the keto advocates say happened; no hunger pangs, lost weight(9kg), heaps of energy, more alert etc.
congrats.
The Marty and Ted show is awesome
Thanks for checking it out Mike!!!
20:00 to 24:00: It seems to be simply our mammalian programming, not only to "fatten up" for winter but for rapid growth in infancy. When Zoe Harcombe pointed out that milk is the only food in nature that is high in all three macronutrients (particularly carbohydrate and fat), it was a huge Aha! moment for me.
understanding that our current food system leaves us continually stuck in autumn was a key ah ha moment for me too! optimisingnutrition.com/category/dont-eat-for-winter/
Ut can;t be ":high" in all three. it can't add up to more than 100%. If they are even, they're 33.33 % each, and that's not high of anything. If one goes up, the others go down. Milk is actually just about the only beverage that people find satiating.
But what about Dr Bikman talking about considering protein not as energy but as a builder? That protein doesn't really provide energy but builds and keeps our processes working.
agreed. I don't think Ted contradicted that view.
Oh wow! The Low Carb guys got me started on thinking about the effects of fat vs/sugar (and seed oils), but of course it stands to reason that the picture won't be complete until you also colour in the role of the remaining macro-nutrient, i.e. protein! I coul instantly feel my view of the whole situation becoming clearer just by listening to you guys! Amazing stuff, thank you!
Also: while it's a great point that it's the combination of fat and sugar that has the worst effects on our body, I think we still need to more wary of sugar than fat, given its inflammatory effects. And, yes, I understand that when you're in the "fat over-flow" state it's ALSO the triglycerides causing inflammation, but surely sugar is the "gateway drug" par excellence, no?
glad you found it helpful. reducing refined carbs (sugar and flour) is also part of the equation, particularly if you're blood sugars are dysregulated. optimisingnutrition.com/reactive-hypoglycemia/
I bought the PEDiet pdf!! Worth it!!! I'm also in The O.N. challenge and feeling like a human pin cushion :-)
Ted's P:E book is great. blood sugars are really useful to help you dial in your diet. doesn't need to be a forever thing once you get it dialed in though.
Dr Ted Naiman has the understanding of obesity that a few people do! I’m in awe of this guy! Huge fan!
I'm near the front of the line of the Ted Naiman super fans.
@@optimisingnutrition where did you get that insulin graph? That was totally eye opening and the best part of this talk. I had no idea 🤷 insulin mattered with fat ingestion. I really bought into to the “eat as much fat as you want camp”. Also I really like that you are had similar 7th day origins!
I agree with the protein priority and percentage. But if you are addicted to carbs like me, fat and carbs are unfortunately not exchangeable.
the worst of the "bad carbs" are those that are mix of refined fat and carbs together with low protein. front loading higher protein foods helps to give your body what it needs and manage your appetite. if you had nothing but plain potato or rice available for a week I imaging you would struggle to overeat it. it's just hard for us to avoid the fat+carb combo when those foods are available. optimisingnutrition.com/calculating-satiety/
if you like carbs then eat more carbs. As a general rule, I just divide my total calories by 10 then add 20 and try to get that many grams of protein a day. So i eat 2000 calories and get at least 220 grams of protein and try to eat at least 2 servings of vegetables with each meal. I dont track anything else, that's a simple way to follow ted's approach without getting too complicated, if I feel like eating more carbs one day, then I eat more carbs, and if I want to eat more fats then I eat more fats.
This is very true. Carbohydrates can cause you to overeat calories regardless of how much protein you front load. I would say the majority of humans fall in this category. I think there's a smaller percentage who are fortunate enough that they don't have their hunger driven by carbohydrates. For them the high protein low fat high carbohydrate formula works excellent.
But I think the majority would benefit more from more fat, less carb and high protein.
And then there's just the hormone benefits that I think you get from more fat. Fat and sex hormones just seem to work very well together.
Have you ever tried gradually weaning off? I did a very gradual transition from basically eating the SAD 3x a day to nothing but meat dairy and greens for a few hours a night, and it was easy all along. Rapid changes are the hardest. They say taste buds are among the most short-lived cells and taste can be consciously adapted.
Keto helped me get my period back after being diagnosed with PCOS for 12 years. I still think low carb is actually doing me good, but maybe ultra low carb isn't all that necessary... going to experiment a little with carbs while keeping my protein nice and high!
lower carb and fat with adequate protein and nutrients is where it's at for fat loss from your body and lower blood sugars.
@@optimisingnutrition what do you think about these macros: P 35%, C 25%, F 40%
I totally agree with the oils sugar and fat combo. I could literally eat myself to death with donuts but I haven't had one in about 2 years.
it's the fat+carb food that are super profitable and hard to stop eating.
I was eating 1 to 2 boxes of Hostess Caramel Ding Dongs a DAY. I gained 30 lbs and freaked out, put myself on a keto-ish diet. I have lost that weight and am working on the next 15. I truly think I'm addicted to that combo.
@@morgantaylor517 yep sugar supposedly affects dopamine in the brain. Maybe that's why they put added sugar in something as mundane as cabbage.
The fact that ones personal fat threshold (PFT), and ones ability to stay under or exceed it, is such a predicator of future metabolic health, is something that is seldom emphasized among diet gurus. I really appreciate Dr. Ted Naiman continuingly focusing on this point in the various presentations he has given and the interviews in which he is featured. It has changed the way I look at insulin resistance. It goes a long way to explaining why certain people - especially people from India, where my parents are from - were so prone to diabetes despite not being "overweight" by western standards. PFT needs to become more common knowledge for the simple fact that it, if it can be determined, it is a far more accurate predicator of ones future health prospects than the crude measure provided by ones weight.
PFT has been a game changer in my understanding of metabolism and nutrition. Shout out to Mike Julian for continuing to highlight this to both Ted and I over the years. optimisingnutrition.com/ted-naimans-dam-fat-storage-insulinographic-explained/
oxidative priority is another brain exploder that I wish I'd understood earlier. optimisingnutrition.com/oxidative-priority-the-secret-to-effective-fat-loss/
My experience suggests that fat and carbs are not exchangeable. With appropriate P:E ratios, same calories and protein level, I have skin and energy issues with fat but not with carbs. Would like to hear Ted's input on Paleomedicina's success with 2:1 Fat : Protein.
depends on context and goals. Paleomedicina is a GAPs style AIP treatment which is great for this purpose. if your goal is fat loss from your body, then you still need adequate protein and perhaps a little less dietary fat which tends to be more satiating (i.e. protein leverage).
i don't really agree with the graph at 23:51 as chicken breasts are almost all protein, and yet i would consider them to be very cheap compared to fattier cuts of meat. i would say the issue lies more with the quality of the food as all foods vary in price depending on how much effort was put into them. seed oils are really cheap, compared to butter and other fats. my point is you can get pretty cheap protein if you need it, just as there's some pretty expensive fats and even carbs.
it's also a little troubling how mr naiman keeps mentioning how fat is stored as fat, but he seems to be ignoring that carbohydrates will also be stored as fat when it's threshold is reached and as far as i understand, your capacity for carbohydrates is much less and the processing in your body is quicker than fat which is why a high carb diet is dangerous when all of that hits your system and your body has no choice to store it as fat.
i don't mean to say fat is a "free calorie" or anything, however i would say fat appears to be generally less impactful than carbohydrates as a whole.
If I'm very low-carb or near-zero-carb, I can't gain weight unless including dairy like milk, yogurt, and kefir (but there is never a problem with ghee, butter, and aged cheese). But eating low-carb, high-fat is so satiating that I easily fast, both extended fasts and short fasts (OMAD and intermittent).
So, I shift between periods of lots of calories/energy and periods of no calories/energy --- feasting and fasting. Going by observations of hunter-gatherers, that seems like a typical dietary pattern that humans were evolved for to maintain optimal health. And it appears to work for many of us in modern industrial societies.
Agreed! Carbs in excess will definitely make u FAT!!! If you drop sugars rice, other grains,pasta, bread and potatoes that are combined with oil/butter and you’ll definitely start to lose !!!
Ted’s P:E diet works! Foolproof method for weight loss, body decomposition. I lost 15 pounds over a year ago and easily maintain my ideal weight. Yes, tracking is key in the beginning. You may need to consume more salt or electrolytes in the beginning because carbs hold water. Your body will adapt. Also , ramp up the protein gradually so your stomach acid can increase as well. Several free apps out there for macros. I like Carb Manager.
.
congrats. we find Cronometer useful to track micros. we use the data in Nutrient Optimiser to identify the foods and meals they need to prioritise to dial in their nutrient density.
52:05 ... Surprised, I've been eating a lot like Ted for a while now. Berries a bit before bed (a few carbs helps me fall off to sleep really fast, and sleep like the dead). Nothing until noon, usually (except the mornings after lifting weights, which is just twice a week, so 5-6 eggs those mornings). Mostly beef, some European cheeses, occasional liver, and after lunch two low carb beers, because I like beer. Unlike Ted I don't eat 10%, or really any, crap (except beer). October will be 3 years 95% carnivore / animal based. My waist has just continued to shrink and shrink... it can't get smaller at this point... 30" but with substantial legs and rear because I'm still squatting 300+ lbs. 61 in a few months... no health problems anymore (no gerd, no skin weirdnesses, no aches or pains, stiff joints, no cavities, no bad moods, rarely tired, perfect digestion, more libido than I need... pretty goddamn crazy).
carnivore is a great way to get plenty of bioavailable protein and hence satiety.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:02 📚 Dr. Ted Naiman and the host discuss their shared journey in understanding nutrition and unlearning previous beliefs, focusing on insulin's role.
05:04 🧪 Insulin's primary role is anti-catabolism, preventing the release of stored fuels into the bloodstream.
09:25 💡 Personal Fat Threshold (PFT) is when you've run out of places to store fat, leading to issues like diabetes and insulin resistance.
17:56 🍔 A diet combining high energy density carbs and fats can lead to overeating and obesity.
23:01 🌰 Natural foods like acorns and nuts that are high in both carbs and fat might have signaled to our bodies to prepare for winter, encouraging binge eating.
23:14 📊 The carb-insulin hypothesis suggests that eating carbs raises insulin, which puts the body into storage mode. However, this idea is physically impossible, as you can't create fat out of thin air just because your insulin is high.
27:10 🍽️ Extended fasting is not recommended as it can lead to hunger, displacement of food choices towards higher-energy options, and eventual regain of lost weight. It may also result in a significant loss of lean mass.
31:38 🌱 Plant-based foods are becoming less nutrient-dense due to soil depletion and increased atmospheric carbon dioxide, which leads to more carb and fat energy and fewer minerals in the diet.
33:28 🍔 Protein is a critical macronutrient in the diet, affecting satiety, nutrient intake, and overall health. Balancing protein intake is essential for optimal results in a weight management plan.
42:03 🧘 Understanding the role of endogenous (naturally produced by the body) and exogenous (externally injected) insulin is essential in the context of the carb-insulin hypothesis and its effect on hunger and weight gain.
47:11 🤔 Ted Naiman discusses the limitations of the insulin model in explaining obesity.
48:08 💪 Tracking macros and increasing protein intake to 30-40% of calories is advised for fat loss and recomp.
50:37 🍽️ Temporarily tracking calories and macros helps people become aware of their eating habits and improve them.
52:14 🍳 Ted Naiman's most frequently consumed foods include eggs, salmon, low-carb dairy, lean ground beef, and berries.
53:26 🕒 Naiman follows a 16-8 intermittent fasting pattern with a focus on protein earlier in the day and carbs later.
56:28 🚫 Ted Naiman is critical of biohacking, emphasizing the importance of hard work in achieving health and fitness goals.
58:07 🧠 Motivating clients involves identifying their "big why" and setting small, sustainable goals.
01:00:57 🍽️ Naiman's dream for the nutrition space is for people to focus on higher protein intake, nutrient density, and the removal of false dichotomies like plant vs. animal or carb vs. fat.
01:04:16 📚 A plug for a book "PE: Great" that Ted Naiman recommends, simplifying the essence of nutrition.
wow! that's cool. did you do that using ChatGPT?
Yes Marty!@@optimisingnutrition But using this Chrome extension call Harpa AI.
“I find myself eating carbs all day long” Yeaaah, that’s my problem. So l’m not even going to play that game, thank you.
it seems to be the fat+carb combo that really trips people up! but if you've found you're an abstainer then that's great!
Love the P:E way of eating!
It's definitely the simplest place to start to increase satiety.
i do very well eating the same way, but include no starch veggies...they don't trigger more eating and i enjoy them...does he not eat them at all or just not mention...just curious...either way lowfat and lower carb works with high protein for me, great interview, learned a lot, thank you both.
yes. low fat or low carb are both satiating, especially if you're getting adequate protein.
Where are those graphics coming from? I have Ted Naiman's P:E Diet and it don't see those graphics anywhere.
From memory, I used stuff from his Facebook page/Twitter and my blog.
Dr. Naiman. Very interestingly, if you examine the nutritional philosophy of Frank Zane in his self published booklet High Def available on his website, it is the same as you have articulated. You present it through the eyes of a physician who has rigorously studied the sciences. I can't think of anyone who mastered body comp as well as Frank Zane.
yeah. body builders have understood the importance of protein for ages and that if you want to get leaner without losing muscle, you just need adequate protein without excess energy from your diet.
around 1:00:00, I need to add the DIETFITS trial showed low fat eaters ended with 4 times more refined sugars and grains then the low-carbers. Based on this I say that low-carb is smarter and more effective at staying away from junk food.
it was interesting that both arms lost a similar amount of weight is difficult for the simple carb-insulin model to explain. optimisingnutrition.com/carb-insulin-model-vs-protein-leverage/
interesting to see a recent re-analysis of the data showed that diet quality was the most important factor, not macros. we tend to see people get a better diet quality score on a lower carb diet (that contains plenty of protein) rather than a high carb diet. but if you're getting adequate protein, neither fat or carbs are high.
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916523662355
Refreshing! Ted's been through heavy dogma (religion) so he damn well doesn't want to follow and promote another one. Strict adherence to the various diets, including all the low-carb variations, can engender orthorexia in susceptible individuals.
agreed. it's hard to guide people to find a place of moderation and tweak their diet a little more towards optimal based on their goals. everyone wants to jump from one extreme to the other to get overnight results. but the best long term results come from building tiny habits and moving towards optimal just enough to keep getting results.
No matter what they say about satiety, no matter how many "high-satiety" meals of 40% protein I have eaten in two years, no matter that I have not had more than 10 grams of added sugar on most days for over four years, if it did not raise my glucose more than I like at age 70- I'm sure it didn't before- I still get up every day and long for a slow-cooking oatmeal breakfast. I wouldn't even be trying to lose weight if my glucose hadn't crept recently into prediabetic range. I've heard all the suggestions. Satiety is individual, folks, no matter what the data shows of larger groups. Recovering from injuries and needing to build a base keep me from going whole hog on resistance exercise, but it's in the plan. I guess I've crossed the fat threshold, despite that my BMI is at the level of greatest longevity as per a chart from Marty's materials. What is "ideal" isn't necessarily enjoyably sustainable. You can't convince me that if people could stay slim and have good blood numbers, they wouldn't prefer a diet that included real Italian amounts -less than people think- of pasta, bread, and pizza. Up intil the advent of snacking and more UPF in Italy, they had much lower average weights and still lover levels of diabetes. I don't expect anyone to solve this today. It's a work in progress.
Thanks
No problem
So If you stick to low carb high protein/moderate fat combined with fasting your golden? N no risk of insulin resistance? How much fat is optimal for someone who is lean
you can dial back energy from fat and/or carbs if you are lean. you can use this calculator if you want. optimisingnutrition.com/macro-calculator/
I'm listening but is Naiman say he and he alone gets it right but all the researchers, scientists doctors espousing LCHF are wrong and have been wrong all along? It's a genuine question because I am obese, my weight currently 90kg, ideal for my height is 72 to 75kg and I need to fix it. I have been on a water fast for 21 days and came down from 99kg. When I stop fasting I intend to try keto.
how do you see Ted's advise as different from Dr Bikman's?
many of the smartest people in 'keto' are jumping off the keto bubble before it bursts. czcams.com/video/k7_uiydVGBA/video.html
I agree that low carb, low fat, adequate protein with resistance training makes sense for weight loss. But I need to explain that once you become fat adapted by eating low carb keto, your hunger disappears. Fasting is boring, and you miss the pleasure of food, but you never have the ravenous hunger you experience when trying to stick to a low fat, high carb, calorie restricted diet. You might feel a minor sensation when the ghrelin tells you that your stomach is empty, but it passes quickly and without pain.
glad it's working for you. many people find they struggle to lose body fat when 'eating fat to satiety' because fat isn't actually that satiating.
I've seen Dr Naiman say to cut carbs below 50 to lose fat, but here he seems to say it doesn't matter as long as you up your protein.
He's become less extreme over time. He seems to focus more on increasing protein and fiber these days and less on hyperfocusing on carbs and fats. All this extreme carb and fat modification is overzealous and I think he knows that now more than ever. If protein and fiber increase, the rest will trend in a more positive direction. Splitting hairs will cause more stress than it's worth.
it's hard to overdo carbs or fat if your protein % is high. optimisingnutrition.com/how-does-protein-suppress-your-appetite/
Why there’s accumulation of fat in injection site of insulin in the abdomen?
it is even mentioned at the beginning of the video: high doses of insulin inhibit lipolysis, and on your injection site you have high local concentrations of insulin. Therefor more fat is stored there.
exogenous insulin. are you injecting it? if not, your body doesn't produce more it than you require to hold extra energy in storage. optimisingnutrition.com/how-to-optimise-your-insulin/
I lost 220 pounds on keto. I have more I want to loose but it is stuck on me. I like the P.E with OMAD but my glucose stays high and I lost no weight. My fasting glucose will be at about 20-30 points higher than when I do moderate protein. I like the P.E diet but not sure what to do about the higher glucose.
Congratulations on your weight loss. I wonder if building muscle via strength training will help. Muscle acts as a reservoir for glucose, drawing it out of your bloodstream. Check out Dr. Naiman channel.
@@t.c.s.7724 understood but I keep my glucose very low with my diet. My glucose does not go above 85 after eating. During the day it stays steady about 60. I have a hard time believing it would be an insulin issue.
if your glucose rises after a high protein meal, it's likely you still have some level of insulin resistance and would benefit from more fat loss and a higher protein % to compensate for the protein being lost to glucose. see optimisingnutrition.com/why-do-my-blood-sugars-rise-after-a-high-protein-meal/
Could you please tell us how many times should we eat chicken, beef and fish? And how much the quantity. Thanks
Google Ted naiman "how much protein" find your reference weight and it'll tell you your protein goal.
you can use this calculator to check your target macros. optimisingnutrition.com/macro-calculator/
Great persons, great Video.
But how is it, if you start doing Keto?
Is it better in the beginning phase of keto to eat more fat (Bullet Proof Coffe, an so on,...), to come quicker in ketosis?
I started keto with a 3 day egg fast just to get through the first phase quickly. It worked really well for me. I don't do BPC, I really use food to get all my calories, but I've got about 60 lbs to lose, so my daily goal/limit is 1100 which is easy to reach!
depends if you want the ketones to be coming from your diet or your body fat. if your goal is weight loss, then you should just prioritise nutrient density.
I was not encouraged to be lifting or even exercising at all on 40% protein and 16/8. I did lose weight and just as Naiman said, 40% was muscle. Curses, But I also never enjoyed the meals as much as when I lost weight (that I haven''t regained for 10 years) on 40C/30P/30F. Body can't tolerate that much starch these days and I hate it. I'm not hungry but I'm not sated, either, There is a difference for me between satiety and being sated. I don't miss desserts- haven't had anything other than a few bites at holidays and dark low sugar chocolate nearly daily for over 4 years and don't care, but even after a few years of big carb reduction (for me), I still miss real pizza, pasta, and most fruits. It's the whole experience of them, including the texture.
Italians have eaten a fair amount of pasta and pizza for generations, yet in 1980 diabetes rate was under 3% and in 2016 it was under 6%. I don't know if anyone has tracked protein consumption. I traveled there in 2022. Rarely saw a really fat person.
I lost 55lb on the carnivore diet and then it stalled and I started putting weight back on , I tried everything,then found a few of you guys and cut down any added fat ,now it’s falling of me again,I think I hit my fat threshold
so cool to hear. congrats!
Whey protein isolate mixed with an egg makes a great batter for deep frying in tallow.
depends on your goal.
is there a guide in how to follow this diet on the cheap?
see optimisingnutrition.com/nutrient-dense-foods-on-a-budget-optimised-for-fat-different-goals/ and optimisingnutrition.com/nutrient-density-on-a-budget/
Love Ted, but it took me time to understand his nutrition proposal. The first time I heard of him was in a debate with Dr. Paul Saladino and unfortunately he was not able to deliver his message and he was completely misunderstood. He came across as someone advocating for a high protein diet when in fact he just advises to increase the percentage without necessarily increasing calories
yes. that's an important differentiation. it's not necessarily MORE protein, but a higher % protein (which is achieved by reducing fat and carbs). you may end up eating a little more protein, but not a lot.
He advocates a high protein diet.
You both should talk to Bart Kay. He is all about Team Anti-carbs+fat.
have you seen this? czcams.com/video/C0RMuPbcZJA/video.html
high protein and 40% carbs around workout, CICO with good quality food has made me turn my body composition around 100x better than the ketogenic try I did.
that's awesome! congrats!
@@optimisingnutrition thank you and also thanks for good content
How about the benefits of fasting not only loosing weight how about increasing hgh and increasing metabolic rate how about autophagy
Humans get far less autophagy without extended fasting. The human body requires at least several days of fasting to reach full autophagy and total replacement of immune cells. How is that harmful?
Maybe this is why extended fasting is so common in traditional societies, particularly among hunter-gatherers. It's hard to believe, almost defying rationality, to claim occasional extended fasting is unhealthy.
we actually understand very little about autophagy in humans. optimisingnutrition.com/what-makes-ddf-different-faq-part-1-2/#htoc-1-9-will-i-be-getting-enough-autophagy-with-data-driven-fasting
@@optimisingnutrition - Debate is always admirable. Yet it remains interesting and compelling that fasting, including extended fasting, is so common in traditional societies and particularly among hunter-gatherers. It's just info to keep in mind, as researchers further explore the topic.
Great information! Thank you for sharing! Would you add any caveat to the carb level for someone with T1D? I get that protein and nutrient density is important- but does reducing carbs become more important for this population, given the “law of small numbers” theory?
Yes. If you’re injecting insulin you want stable healthy blood sugars, so less carbs (mostly from non starchy vege to get minerals) and dosing with insulin for your protein is a smart play.
Thank you Marty!
Basal insulin is an excellent metric!
Yes. But harder to measure and conceptualise outside T1D.
What about people sensitive to dairy? Is pea/hemp protein ok?
soy protein is biovailable. some people don't tolerate it well.
How many hours do you count as extended fasting?
there are many definitions. EF is usually days at a time.
T2D here and I have never had high triglycerides. Thoughts?
congrats.
I’m surprised to hear that he uses whey. Whey spikes insulin as much or more than sugar
real food is ideal for most people. whey will raise insulin in the short term but provide greater satiety over the longer term, and thus reduce basal insulin demand. optimisingnutrition.com/does-insulin-make-you-fat/
Hi marty have you done teds meals in your optaimisa
a few. we also have a high P:E NutriBooster book. optimisingnutrition.com/which-nutribooster-recipe-book-is-right-for-me/
Please turn on the automatic captioning if possible.
Brilliant, thanks!
thanks. I'll have a look at that.
I pretty much have started to eat as much animal protein as I can. I only consider animal protein as my protein intake and getting 100-150g of that per day in 2 meals is really hard. I don't like supplementing with whey powders as they are far too highly processed and full of artificial sweeteners etc. Eggs, sardines, salmon and beef are my main protein sources.
Damn bro. I ate like 300 grams today from a pound and a half of chicken breast and 1,5 liters of islandic yoghurt. I think I have a ferocious appetite...
Plant based protein is definitely less bioavailable, so you would need even more to get the same effect. Powders are fine if you need to bulk up, but whole food is more satiating, which is great if you’re wanting to cut down.
@@viggohjortkjr5219 same as u I over eat protein
Can l lose weight this way
Snap :)
Woah balanced eating. 👌
pretty cool hug?
I've been eating more protein than I ever have in my life for the past 9 months and I've gained so much weight. I'm not sure if this model is for everyone.
Oh no, I'm trying it for weight loss 😟
Think Ted is not saying eat MORE protein, hes saying increase the ratio of protein to fat that you eat. Don't over eat the protein, don't overeat anything in fact. If your ration of protein is higher, less fat and very reduced carbs, you will be more satiated, eat less and hopefully use up your own fat supplys.
I believe he suggests basically cutting your carbs by about 100 grams and upping your protein by that amount. It's hard to see someone gaining adipose tissue eating just protein.
You have to increase protein percentage or proportion without increasing overall calories. Dial back carbs (try to keep under 100g per day) and eat them in one meal, then dial back fat if you are still not getting your desired results.
just eating more protein often comes with more fat. it's key to look at the protein % (by dialing back carbs and fat). see optimisingnutrition.com/how-does-protein-suppress-your-appetite/
Marty I have Dont Eat for Winter. Please have Cian on your podcast
He’s on my hit list. ;)
@8:00 Basil insulin reflects your fat mass. OK, my fasting insulin is about 8. My doctor keeps asking why I want the test with my other blood work, saying your number is in range. I tell him I am tracking my progress. So, to lower the fasting insulin I have to reduce my percentage of body fat? My BMI is almost 25, body fat almost 28%, though I look slim.
see optimisingnutrition.com/ted-naimans-dam-fat-storage-insulinographic-explained/
and optimisingnutrition.com/how-to-optimise-your-insulin/
@@optimisingnutrition Wow, thanks for the link. I just got around to reading it.
How to respond to dr. Andereas Eenfeldt when he encourage people to eat high fat diet like unlimited butter heavy cream fatty cheese and he cite by time magazine about butter is back unfortunately there is many people morbidly obese over 400 lbs " 180 kg " OR 500 lbs " 226 kg " or more he tell them eat more butter get thin. Any thought please thanks
massive kudos to Andreas for listening to Ted who has brought him around to a more accurate view of satiety and fat loss. Diet Doctor are in the midst of a massive shift in their business. it's not gonna be easy for everyone to keep up with the change, but I'm glad they are tackling it head on. www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/keto/myths
The problem with your system is not every body can "lift weight"... we are not all young and healthy, that's why we are looking a way to eat. I am post menopaused, 60 years old, I had a stroke and lost my left side and most of the right side. I can not lift a toothbrush... just sitting and gaining weight... looking for a better way to eat and lose weight. gained about 50 pounds in the last 2 years since the stroke... I am currently doing "KetoVegan", lots of animal products and very little low carb veggies. Moderate fats
I think you made an error in your comment. Keto vegan is high fat and no animal foods. I think if you follow his advise you will lose weight. Just do what ever exercise you can with the good side of your body. My husband had a stroke in December. I have a tip that might help you. It is helping my husband. If you eat greens and then sit out in the sun with your head uncovered your body and your brain will make coQ10, something that is very good for all of is but especially beneficial for stroke victems.
people who are inactive may need to prioritse a higher protein % more, not less.
Damn it, as keto turned carnivore on almost zero carbs and protein at 25%, this has given me a lot to reconsider. I'm in the "lost loads of fat and now resistance training to gain lean muscle" camp, so seems I should consider increasing protein to at least 50% of calorific intake and perhaps even consider some carbs. Thanks for the interesting interview, appreciated.
glad you found it helpful.
@@optimisingnutrition tried 4 days with protein at 45-50% (but carbs very low still at 1%) and it sucked. Energy levels plummeted, presumably as my body switched off burning fat for fuel, but there were no carbs to replace. I guess I need to keep protein lower and fats back up
Tough I prioritized protein, I do believe the quality of fat will dictate what your body does to it. Polyunsaturated fats have an obesogenic effect in our body; linoleic oil(vegetable mainly) probably is not meant to be consumed at the rates our existing lifestyle allows us; more like in the range of 11% higher than what we use to consume prior to the unfounded Saturated fat (stable fat) scare recommendations. I did test this myself and after shedding more than 35 kgs I know I can use saturated fats adlib when preparing my meals, mostly meat and very little low carb with little concern.
if you're prioritising getting the nutrients you need from the food you eat you will automatically be limiting the 'bad fats' in your diet. optimisingnutrition.com/which-fats-will-make-you-skinny/
Am I looking in the wrong place? The cost of the book is $155. Is that correct?
my understanding is the hard copy coffee table book is big and expensive to print. the electronic version is cheaper.
www.amazon.com.au/PE-Diet-Leverage-biology-achieve-ebook/dp/B07ZC8XBGG
LC/LF is just HP (high protein)?!
yes. increasing your protein % aligns with greater satiety. higher protein % = less fat and carbs.
Sally Fallon Morell observes high-protein, low-fat during early development can lead to skinny, tall, and lanky bodies. She calls this the Ichabod Crane syndrome.
growing bodies require energy from fat and/or carbs. bodies that have grown too much need a little less energy from fat and/or carbs while still getting adequate nutrients.
@@optimisingnutrition - Fair enough. I guess it depends. From personal experience, I used to be overweight and trimmed down with LCHF. I now only gain fat, on such a diet, if include dairy (other than butter and ghee).
How much protein are we suppose to eat? 😊
there's really no one size fits all solution for protein. but in our Macros Masterclass we guide people to understand how they're currently eating and dial back energy from fat and carbs while prioritising protein for greater satiety. see optimisingnutrition.com/faq-2-macronutrients/
I agree with almost all what you said but I dont agree when you treat FAT as just 1 of 2 sources of energy. There are a lot of varius fatty acids in your body that plays a huge role in metabolism...
I came back to watch this again.
Why do so many keto people lose weight while still eating a lot of fat? I was not one of those people, but many seem to be.
dropping carbs tends to lead to an increased protein intake and moving out of the carb+fat danger zone. but the reality is, fat is not satiating. dropping fat from 90 to 40% has a similar effect on satiety as dropping net carbs from 25 to 15%. see optimisingnutrition.com/faq-2-macronutrients/
This is breaking my brain, I thought keto was the end all to be all.
Even some advocates of low-carb, high-fat diets don't support continuous ketosis (e.g., Dr. Paul Saladino). Even on a carnivore diet, the human body potentially produces enough glucose from protein to knock one out of ketosis. That is why the keto diet restricts protein. But, unless you have a medical condition like epilepsy, there isn't any particular reason to be in ketosis all the time.
sorry.
@@MarmaladeINFP the liver is constantly making glucose. Everyday is makes the amount your body absolutely must have, the gonads, liver, and parts is the brain must have glucose, everything else is fine on ketones. If you are able to get carbs, your liver is still making glucose no matter what. Ketosis is not on or off, especially once you are fat adapted. Eat plenty of protein, one gram of protein per pound of lean body mass, then you can go low carb, or low fat. It doesn't really matter. Protein is most important.
I am keto - low carb - intermittent fastening since years. Fastening is easy on high fat and moderate protein. Eating decadent high fat foods in ample quantities during my eating window. 20 to 25 eggs per week, fish, meat accompanied by big salads, low carb veggies, bake my own keto bread, cookies ect with sucralose and ethritol...since I do have a sweet tooth.
I work very hard, galloping several racehorses every morning after mucking out 14 stalls, do aerobics and stretching at around 4am and sleep around 6 to 7 hrs a day. Don't drink or smoke. Turning 61 this coming week with no signs of slowing down.
A new doctor called me back last year after a mandatory blood test to ask whether I am taking any special supplements since the test looked like from young healthy male instead of a 60 year old female. His words not mine.
Months before he kind of laughed at my diet rolling his eyes....he's not laughing any more:))
congrats on your healthy drug free lifestyle!