What I've noticed over the years, even to this day, is that no matter how many times you put it out to the world that the GE is "Same, same, but different, but still same", people scoff and will prefer to throw their money at a stock GTE.
i've seen this too. There's more support/options for the GTE motor and you're not trying to Frankenstein things together or settle for parts that are out there for the GE.
Just discovered y’all’s channel. I am on journey of research for a 2JZ I wish to install in my 69 charger as I love the engine platform and love the body on the Charger. This definitely helps me to expand my knowledge before throwing unnecessary money at my project. Thank you for sharing
Great video! You guys actually did a lot of work to my non vvti GE head years ago for the guy that I bought the engine from. Super quality work guys, it looks amazing, and beyond that, when tested in the original car the engine was built for, it made just over 1400hp. 🤯 I agree 100% with everything you said in the video; BUT the biggest problem I have with the GE head comes down to the upper coolant water necks... I didn’t realize till recently when I installed my 2j into my FD rx7, is that the upper coolant water neck on my non vvti GE can only come out of the engine on the driver side. The lower comes out on the passenger side. The turbo heads have many options on aftermarket and different car model oem factory upper water necks that allow the engine to have same side (passenger) water necks. (Best of which would be the chase bays upper water neck) For my build, since I can not change which side the upper water neck comes out and am stuck to the driver side upper neck location I’d have to 180 out of the block- run across the front of the engine- and 90 towards the front to a same side rad. Looks terrible and since I have no room in my engine bay it makes everything else crowded af. From what I’ve seen out there this is a big problem shared by lots of us doing swaps into non factory 2jz cars. So… y’all should make an upper water neck for us non vvti GE guys that come out on the pass side haha I have made a 3D printed model that will work but I don’t have a 5 axis Cnc (my 3 axis won’t cut it) to be able to test it. Hit me up if you would want to have my .dxf file to test out!!
That is great feedback! You could probably get that thing made from a job shop. I’m not sure if the website, but there’s one that you post up there and people will bid it. Cnc’s that port heads are not really good at anything else.
Great video Dave!!! I did not know about the diff in the intake port on GE vs GE VVTi. Very good info! Is there a difference in the GTE VVTI ports vs the GTE? i thought they were identical but now I have to ask.
This helped a lot. Now I just need to get a non-vvti short block and find performance parts for my ge-vvti head which I need help with. What are some good performance parts for the ge-vvti head ?
SShhhhh 🤫🤫🤫🙅♂️🙅♂️ your going to let everyone know what the IS boys have known for decades there great heads now everyone is going to want one and they are not going to be cheap no more keep it on the D.L.
@@JoseHernandez-ql7ni That's actually the other way around! IS300 are used for drifting because they are lighter. The MAJORITY of 2nd Gen GS300'S were either Vip'd or babied by older people.
Hi Dave, I’ve actually had this exact conversation with you over email. I’ve got a 1JZ GTE head currently. I also own a 2JZ GTE, and 2JZ GE head as well. I’ll probably be keeping the 1JZ GTE head on the machine even though it flows the worst of the bunch ->changing out both manifolds just seems not worth it for a street car.
I would do the GE VVTI. Because it is easy to wire up a cam sensor and the added benefits of the VVTI. It might not flow as good, but the other stuff makes up for it in my book. That is what I used on my personal 2JZ Fox.
I'm a UZ guy myself but when I was doing research on the 2J I believe when it first came out in 93' or 91'.I forgot when the USDM version came out, but up until the 97' model year for USDM. It had the same crank, pistons, and rods as the gte model of the time. With the difference being a lack all the turbo stuff ofc, no oil squirters, and a different head and valves. The GE motor that came out in 98' gained VVT-I, better flowing head, weaker rods and Pistons to make more NA power, and ditched the cap and rotor distributor for coil packs. If you are going to do a NA-T swap I'd recommend the post 98' models as they are newer, easier to find parts, far more easy to tune because with a standalone you'll be able to control timing and won't have to swap the older distributor setup over to use coils. You'll also have the added benefit of having a better flowing head because it has that stock. Toyota wanted to make the most of what power it could make NA. Yes, you will have to buy forged Pistons and Rods but you'll already have to be tearing everything apart. With forged rods and Pistons, standalone, big single turbo, and a good tune can get you well into the 700hp range.
@@Godeepgts11 I'm not buying that. I've heard drag setups with a 6" 90 pipe coming off the turbo in both GTE and GE and the GE just sounds pretty standard unlike the GTE. I believe it has to do with the GTE non-symetrical exhaust ports
@@eclipsetrekker there are too many variables for your hypothesis to stand. Compression ratio, porting job design, camshaft profile, turbo size, turbo brand, exhaust manifold, exhaust manifold material (stainless Vs mild steel), dump pipe size/shape/angle, dump pipe material, exhaust size, exhaust shape.... Honestly mate the list of variables goes on and on. Iv heard GTE's sound worse than GE's, my 2jz-ge vvti sounds exactly like a 1JZ GTE because of the manifold design. The dude you responded to is 100% correct.
I too have noticed this. Most GTE sound much better than whatever manifold, tune, setup, etc a GE head may have. Even a GE with GTE internals/pistons, same compression sounds different I find. I have been trying to find a way to match the GTE sound, but figured it is probably all in the head flow like this video mentions. Also, in terms of intake manifold design. The later model Lexus GE VVTI models, have ACIS and forums show that it makes a notable power difference over the FFIM that the later Supra or Aristo GTE VVTI models had.
@@reynoldsautoworks yes and my big race gte head will do that as well with less port velocity. Both these heads are only for boosted setups, the air speed is too fast for NA deals but really go well with boost behind it.
If you want to go turbo, don't have to pass emissions (or at least a visual inspection), and have the cash, the GTE head is far superior simply due to availability of parts for doing turbo builds. The simplicity and cleanliness of the build will also be superior to the usual NA-T (GE turbo) and if you're going for big turbo/high HP then you don't have to worry as much about fitting turbo beneath the usual GE intake piping
Why would you worry about that when plenty of people offer front facing intake manifolds that bolt on and work great for under $1000, or you can get a higher end intake manifold for around $1500, you're likely going to be purchasing one anyway... you could even go as far as buying a $200 adapter to bolt on a stock GTE intake manifold if you really wanted one. Theres no reason to go GTE unless you just wanted to, the toss up in price difference is made up in base cost, a stock GTE head is $2000, a stock GE head is a couple hundred, you can even add billet valvecovers or GTE valvecovers and acheive almost the same look.
@@Supranforever have you built an NA-T? Are you even remotely familiar with all of the little headaches and pitfalls that come with the alternatives you suggested? Those turn low budget builds in 2 weeks into just as expensive and lasting months because every little issue snowballs. There is much much more to it. Don't mislead people
@@skippypeanutbutter9136 Who is misleading anyone? I’ve been into Jz’s and Supras for over 23 years. I have Built 2jzge, 2jzgte, 1jzgte 1jzgte vvti 2jzgte vvti and na-t engines for these cars. I’m not mistaken on anything, I doubt you have any history building na-t’s, I was one of the original guys doing na-t’s 20 years ago on supraforums when gte’s were $1000, because I couldn’t get them where I’m located, I’ve done it all, I never said it would be super cheap, but you CAN build an na-t cheaper than a $5000 stock GTE. Not trying to step on any toes here, I literally just got a stock GE out of a 94 mkiv Supra for $600 locally, TT headgasket, arp studs, front facing intake manifold and exhaust manifold from drift motion, turbo and wastegate from drift motion, Supravworld cam/crank sensor kit, swapped injectors from An engine I already had and swapped the oil cooler adapter too. Less than $5,000 into the whole thing and it makes 500whp no issue, didn’t even ring the block, completely stock bottom end.
@@skippypeanutbutter9136 Definitely. In my search for intake manifolds and stuff, I could not find a decent one to fit a GE as you do have to get the piping to the intercooler to be custom as well because of that taller intake height. So for a ready to install kit; it's not very friendly compared to GTEs Cheap manifolds from eBay and whatnot from what I read, usually are of poor welds, and people have had them crack at the welds at around 600hp.
What I've noticed over the years, even to this day, is that no matter how many times you put it out to the world that the GE is "Same, same, but different, but still same", people scoff and will prefer to throw their money at a stock GTE.
agreed!
i've seen this too. There's more support/options for the GTE motor and you're not trying to Frankenstein things together or settle for parts that are out there for the GE.
Let them. Just means the "bad" stuff will stay cheap
*entered the chat*
The kit you guys make is absolutely A++++
dodo racing ftw
Best video on CZcams about the GE to GTE conversion.
Been wanting this video for a long time!! Thanks for putting it together
Love the vids as always. Love from New Zealand as always :D
Thanks! Smooches from afar!
Awesome video. Tons of good info!
Great video, guys. This is my favorite so far; very informative!
Thee Mark Conte!!! Thanks scrumptious.
Love my Thee Dave Localio (and Tiffani!) 🫶
Just discovered y’all’s channel. I am on journey of research for a 2JZ I wish to install in my 69 charger as I love the engine platform and love the body on the Charger. This definitely helps me to expand my knowledge before throwing unnecessary money at my project. Thank you for sharing
Glad to help! We have a whole 2JZ series in the playlist section. Would help you out with the rest of the build of the cylinder head.
@@headgames Thank you for the direction. Found it and eating it up like candy🤙🏻
Great video, thanks for the breakdown.
thanks for watching!
Great video! You guys actually did a lot of work to my non vvti GE head years ago for the guy that I bought the engine from. Super quality work guys, it looks amazing, and beyond that, when tested in the original car the engine was built for, it made just over 1400hp. 🤯
I agree 100% with everything you said in the video; BUT the biggest problem I have with the GE head comes down to the upper coolant water necks...
I didn’t realize till recently when I installed my 2j into my FD rx7, is that the upper coolant water neck on my non vvti GE can only come out of the engine on the driver side. The lower comes out on the passenger side. The turbo heads have many options on aftermarket and different car model oem factory upper water necks that allow the engine to have same side (passenger) water necks. (Best of which would be the chase bays upper water neck)
For my build, since I can not change which side the upper water neck comes out and am stuck to the driver side upper neck location I’d have to 180 out of the block- run across the front of the engine- and 90 towards the front to a same side rad. Looks terrible and since I have no room in my engine bay it makes everything else crowded af. From what I’ve seen out there this is a big problem shared by lots of us doing swaps into non factory 2jz cars.
So… y’all should make an upper water neck for us non vvti GE guys that come out on the pass side haha
I have made a 3D printed model that will work but I don’t have a 5 axis Cnc (my 3 axis won’t cut it) to be able to test it. Hit me up if you would want to have my .dxf file to test out!!
That is great feedback! You could probably get that thing made from a job shop. I’m not sure if the website, but there’s one that you post up there and people will bid it. Cnc’s that port heads are not really good at anything else.
I am with you man sticking with my GE VVTI head. Way cheaper for minimal gains if any.
Very informative video. For a 500-600hp application, would the GTE heads spool a single turbo faster than an NA Non-VVTI?
Interesting, i still have a lot to learn.
Absolutely awesome video, thank you. So if I would use Dart block would you recommend to use GE cylinder head?
Yeah I wouldn’t ever mind doing a GE head. Even on billet block.
great info thanks !
you are very welcome!
Great video Dave!!! I did not know about the diff in the intake port on GE vs GE VVTi. Very good info!
Is there a difference in the GTE VVTI ports vs the GTE? i thought they were identical but now I have to ask.
thanks! The GTE heads are both identical. I should have put that in the vid!
GE flows more air, even the supra guys always go after the GE heads on the GTE block.
This helped a lot. Now I just need to get a non-vvti short block and find performance parts for my ge-vvti head which I need help with. What are some good performance parts for the ge-vvti head ?
All the GTE parts fit the GE
keen for the day you can myth bust the 1.5jz, so many people say the 2.5 head flow better then the 3.0 head.
that would be easily busted lol
This actually does my head in, the 1jz head flowing 'best' for low end torque/power. And people just use the blanket term 'yeah yeah it flows better'.
This video really helped me..but still don't know what to do..😢
Just purchased a gte head for 1780$ a brand new oem ge head was 2k everywhere i looked wtf lol
weird, I have actually never seen a new GE head!
SShhhhh 🤫🤫🤫🙅♂️🙅♂️ your going to let everyone know what the IS boys have known for decades there great heads now everyone is going to want one and they are not going to be cheap no more keep it on the D.L.
haha I have been preaching it for years and hasn't moved the needle
Bruuuuuh the GS300 has the same exact engine 😂😂😂
I know but everyone wants the GS to drift and so on not the IS so they are beat on less and they are lighter also
@@JoseHernandez-ql7ni That's actually the other way around! IS300 are used for drifting because they are lighter. The MAJORITY of 2nd Gen GS300'S were either Vip'd or babied by older people.
@@JoseHernandez-ql7ni Don't let your local streets fool you lol.
Hi Dave, I’ve actually had this exact conversation with you over email. I’ve got a 1JZ GTE head currently. I also own a 2JZ GTE, and 2JZ GE head as well. I’ll probably be keeping the 1JZ GTE head on the machine even though it flows the worst of the bunch ->changing out both manifolds just seems not worth it for a street car.
certainly depends on the power level. 500-700ish probably don't matter. After that I would say the 1JZ holds you back and not worth upgrading.
Will 2jzgte non vvti cams fit in a 2jzge non vvti?
Yes they are interchangeable
Dave, now which way to go, GE vvti or non vvti ? what do you think it better
I would do the GE VVTI. Because it is easy to wire up a cam sensor and the added benefits of the VVTI. It might not flow as good, but the other stuff makes up for it in my book. That is what I used on my personal 2JZ Fox.
@@headgames so should I just save for a gte swap or should I keep the ge?🤨
@@VEGA-J keep the GE!
How much work would it be too put the stock twin turbos on a vvti GE head?
I don’t know if anyone has made a manifold for that swap.
So gte vvti turbo manifold bolts up to ge vvti directly?
No sir. GE can only be used with GE
so if I want do GE na-t is it better get VVTI or nonVVTI ?
I'm a UZ guy myself but when I was doing research on the 2J I believe when it first came out in 93' or 91'.I forgot when the USDM version came out, but up until the 97' model year for USDM. It had the same crank, pistons, and rods as the gte model of the time. With the difference being a lack all the turbo stuff ofc, no oil squirters, and a different head and valves. The GE motor that came out in 98' gained VVT-I, better flowing head, weaker rods and Pistons to make more NA power, and ditched the cap and rotor distributor for coil packs.
If you are going to do a NA-T swap I'd recommend the post 98' models as they are newer, easier to find parts, far more easy to tune because with a standalone you'll be able to control timing and won't have to swap the older distributor setup over to use coils. You'll also have the added benefit of having a better flowing head because it has that stock. Toyota wanted to make the most of what power it could make NA.
Yes, you will have to buy forged Pistons and Rods but you'll already have to be tearing everything apart. With forged rods and Pistons, standalone, big single turbo, and a good tune can get you well into the 700hp range.
Is it possible to make the GE non VVTI head compatible with coil packs?
Sure can! I believe you can get it from Powerhouse Racing
@headgames Thank you! I heard you can use Nissan GTR R-35 coil packs, if so then that is probably what I will go with eventually
Show us s LS cathedral port job ?!
Like showing some techniques on porting it by hand?
Yes
I did some 317 heads a few months ago and made a video on it I think it turned out pretty good but definitely should have got a 3 angle put on em
Why doesn't a GE exhaust note sound like a GTE? Even after turbocharging it doesn't have that sweet note.
This is entirely dependent on manifold and exhaust set up as firing order is the same
@@Godeepgts11 I'm not buying that. I've heard drag setups with a 6" 90 pipe coming off the turbo in both GTE and GE and the GE just sounds pretty standard unlike the GTE. I believe it has to do with the GTE non-symetrical exhaust ports
@@eclipsetrekker there are too many variables for your hypothesis to stand.
Compression ratio, porting job design, camshaft profile, turbo size, turbo brand, exhaust manifold, exhaust manifold material (stainless Vs mild steel), dump pipe size/shape/angle, dump pipe material, exhaust size, exhaust shape....
Honestly mate the list of variables goes on and on.
Iv heard GTE's sound worse than GE's, my 2jz-ge vvti sounds exactly like a 1JZ GTE because of the manifold design.
The dude you responded to is 100% correct.
It's all in your "HEAD" pun intended
I too have noticed this. Most GTE sound much better than whatever manifold, tune, setup, etc a GE head may have. Even a GE with GTE internals/pistons, same compression sounds different I find.
I have been trying to find a way to match the GTE sound, but figured it is probably all in the head flow like this video mentions.
Also, in terms of intake manifold design. The later model Lexus GE VVTI models, have ACIS and forums show that it makes a notable power difference over the FFIM that the later Supra or Aristo GTE VVTI models had.
shhh keep these GE's cheap! haha I kid. This was an awesome video! I have no regerts building my GE NA-t thats in my 260z.
lol it won't stay there forever
I always knew the ge had dummy potential when I took apart my is300 just from the looks of the ports but this makes all the sense now
you also did not get into the water neck difference. but we forgive you
AH! Good point!
its a mere hose change away from working.
Great info! Why build a GTE when you can build a turbo GE?!
That’s what I’m saying!
🇦🇬
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️.
🙇🏾♂️
I am interested to see if a max effort GE head would out do a max effort GTE head. 🤔
Me too! Nobody does them but I think the GE done right would win.
I have and done both @headsense . I have GE heads that go 305 @ 12mm with 1mm os valves.
@@colinlloyd1543I also saw one of your “street port” GTE heads go over 290. So there’s still not a whole lot between them.
@@reynoldsautoworks yes and my big race gte head will do that as well with less port velocity. Both these heads are only for boosted setups, the air speed is too fast for NA deals but really go well with boost behind it.
If you want to go turbo, don't have to pass emissions (or at least a visual inspection), and have the cash, the GTE head is far superior simply due to availability of parts for doing turbo builds. The simplicity and cleanliness of the build will also be superior to the usual NA-T (GE turbo) and if you're going for big turbo/high HP then you don't have to worry as much about fitting turbo beneath the usual GE intake piping
Why would you worry about that when plenty of people offer front facing intake manifolds that bolt on and work great for under $1000, or you can get a higher end intake manifold for around $1500, you're likely going to be purchasing one anyway... you could even go as far as buying a $200 adapter to bolt on a stock GTE intake manifold if you really wanted one. Theres no reason to go GTE unless you just wanted to, the toss up in price difference is made up in base cost, a stock GTE head is $2000, a stock GE head is a couple hundred, you can even add billet valvecovers or GTE valvecovers and acheive almost the same look.
LIES!!! This 2023, not 2003! 😂😂😂
@@Supranforever have you built an NA-T? Are you even remotely familiar with all of the little headaches and pitfalls that come with the alternatives you suggested?
Those turn low budget builds in 2 weeks into just as expensive and lasting months because every little issue snowballs.
There is much much more to it. Don't mislead people
@@skippypeanutbutter9136 Who is misleading anyone? I’ve been into Jz’s and Supras for over 23 years. I have Built 2jzge, 2jzgte, 1jzgte 1jzgte vvti 2jzgte vvti and na-t engines for these cars.
I’m not mistaken on anything, I doubt you have any history building na-t’s, I was one of the original guys doing na-t’s 20 years ago on supraforums when gte’s were $1000, because I couldn’t get them where I’m located, I’ve done it all, I never said it would be super cheap, but you CAN build an na-t cheaper than a $5000 stock GTE. Not trying to step on any toes here, I literally just got a stock GE out of a 94 mkiv Supra for $600 locally, TT headgasket, arp studs, front facing intake manifold and exhaust manifold from drift motion, turbo and wastegate from drift motion, Supravworld cam/crank sensor kit, swapped injectors from
An engine I already had and swapped the oil cooler adapter too. Less than $5,000 into the whole thing and it makes 500whp no issue, didn’t even ring the block, completely stock bottom end.
@@skippypeanutbutter9136 Definitely. In my search for intake manifolds and stuff, I could not find a decent one to fit a GE as you do have to get the piping to the intercooler to be custom as well because of that taller intake height. So for a ready to install kit; it's not very friendly compared to GTEs
Cheap manifolds from eBay and whatnot from what I read, usually are of poor welds, and people have had them crack at the welds at around 600hp.
test 1jz v/s 2jz heads. people makes 1,5 jz.. dont know why
They do it to gain bottom end torque as the 1jz head has smaller ports than all of 2jz.
@@motabikeboy 👌🏻👍🏻