"Stupid" Movies That Are Surprisingly Progressive - After Hours
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I'd say "Legally Blonde" is a good example. It shows a woman getting accepted into Harvard Law on her own merit rather than relying on connections (like the guy she was with at the beginning of the movie). I find it rather empowering.
It's implied that the people that choose who get accepted, choose her based on her appearance...
KittyKittyCuddle :P Yeah but she stepped up her game, studied hard and graduated with honors!
@@rra7490 I agree it's a amazing movie, (one of my favorites) I just wanted to point out the fact that not only did she step up her game and work for what she believed in, it's also a example of judging books based on the cover.
@@myabella7104 IDK.... I didn't get that, if anything I felt it made them uncomfortable with letting her in actually
Plus even if that's true, she still graduated top of her class by buckling down and studying her butt off
But she did it all just to follow her boyfriend into college and after. Without him to Jumpstart it, she'd probably be a housewife.
"I was the eye candy" aw, Soren.
Yes you were
At least for this episode
+kateknowsnothing
It's ok for men to be eye candy.
+kateknowsnothing Nothing against Soren--I can see the attraction, but I always find Katie to be Eye candy, and brain candy, and...is laugh-candy a thing?...generally just deliciously smart, devistatingly sardonic, and dead sexy.
Like 'em goofy and confused?
+kateknowsnothing I mean, that's a little redundant, right? Soren's always the eye candy!
Can we all just agree that "Animaniacs" is just great for, like, everything?
Yes
Of course.
Freakazoid is better, imo, but yes, Animaniacs is a wonderful mess
I found The Animaniacs annoying! Screw those puppy children!
MrParkerman6 ok u do u
I've always appreciated the Powerpuff Girls for this exact thing. Blossom, Bubbles, and Buttercup are all cute, independent, unique, and strong. They don't need to be saved (most of the time), they're the ones doing the saving. Not to mention Ms. Bellum. She's gorgeous, has an amazing body, large breasts, and a light breathy voice, but she's more competent than the mayor. Hell, even her name, Sarah Bellum, is a pun about how smart she is.
What is her name a pun of?
@@Bubaiel cerubellum, part of the brain
I like Sailor Moon for the exact same reason.
Yeah, it's too bad the feminists disagree with you on Ms. Bellum, they think she's a dumb bimbo.
@@ARCtheCartoonMaster "feminists". It's grandstanders who *think* they're being progressive by saying "sexy = sexist" doing that. Anyone who actually grasps the concept of what feminism actually is would realize what a feminist icon Miss Bellum is
You know, the comments aren't nearly as toxic as I thought they'd be when I read the title of this video. Not yet, at least. Good work, everyone.
+AnthemToTheEstranged Not an angry dudebro. I just think it's ridiculously stupid to claim that violence is an inherently "masculine" trait. No it isn't. And if it is to some people then it only is because they've limited themselves to thinking that.
Jackman LeBlanc
Crime statistics say otherwise. Although to be fair, that might just be the fault of social programming, or gender stereotypes or whatever you want to call it. Thing is that most people (not all) who would object to such a statement about men and violence, also tend to object to most statements about the existence or at least importance of such structures.
Although I will say that they could've gone a bit more in depth in their argumentation on that point, because it ended up on the rather shallow conclusion of "violent women in movies are just masculinized" which sounds more like a strawman retort from the opposing side of what they're trying to represent.
+viljamtheninja When you make a claim as ill-informed as "violence is masculine", anyone who disagrees won't feel threatened enough to make a scene.
*****
Good point, and I absolutely agree. I said something similar in another comment chain somewhere around here; I feel that women are by many people seen as victimized individuals who only react to outward stimuli with little agency of their own, which causes people to be more liable to let them get away with this and that. So yeah, if we started digging into it a bit, I wouldn't be surprised to find that the justice system has sexist elements.
This is one reason why it's important to discuss the depiction of women in movies, as whether we like to admit it or not, we are doubtlessly affected by the constant stream of media we are exposed to.
+viljamtheninja Spoke a bit too soon there...
what about Avatar (the cartoon) all the female characters literally all of them were well develop and amazing
not stupid and not a movie?
oh duh lmao didn't even notice that
Animaniacs wasn't stupid or a movie either.
Fair point, damn title guy
I know this comment was made over a year ago but I mean, lezzbehonest, EVERY character in Avatar is well developed and amazing, gosh... such a good show, I gotta rewatch it.
The bride didn’t “find her strength” after getting shot. She fell back on what she knew after her old life came back and took a quiet existence away from her. Also, the reason she talks about Bill so much is because she obsessed with getting revenge on him for this little thing called *KILLING HER DAUGHTER!*
Thank you for saying the thing
That's kind've their point though? A small girl had to die to provide motivation for the protagonist a woman who is sexually abused, shot in the head, emotionally abused and I'm assuming much more and it's such a bullshit trope that women can only be strong after violence was brought against them.
@@ldragon8480 My point was the Bride was already a total badass for years before that happened.
@@ldragon8480 In most movies in that genre the guys go through the same kind of thing tho. From your Jason Borne to John Wick. The motivation is what allows the character to progress with the story. It would feel boring and almost pointless if everything happened in Kill Bill just because she was a badass.
@@ldragon8480 she was badass before, then decided to become a mother and wife, then got that taken away and returned to her old days, she was badass from start to finish, but a different kind of badass each time
Why no Parks and Rec?
Ann and Leslie are wonderfully supportive and proud of each other. Despite facing obstacles, just like in every friendship, the show never sets them against each other in romantic competition. Leslie is able to act as a mentor to April; both April and Leslie learn and grow from each other. And despite Leslie’s positive demeanor , she never forces April to “cheer up” or “smile more”. Donna is just plain fabulous. Her confidence and sexuality (two things women are also told not to have too much pride in) are point of celebration, rather than derision.
Ron embodies typical, old-fashioned beliefs, but still believes in gender equality and respects Leslie, despite their political differences. Ben resigns from his job so that Leslie can keep hers, not because she needs a man to save her, but because he understands and values how important her job is to her. The first college class Andy takes is women’s studies, which he, Ron and April are all shown to be fascinated by, proving that men too can, and should, take an interest in gender equality. Tom, Chris, and Jerry are all shown to respect Leslie and the other women in the Parks Department, without gender ever being a factor.
Pawnee is depicted as operating on a reasonably entrenched patriarchy. Many characters, especially older males working within the government bureaucracy, exhibit openly sexist attitudes, which Leslie is forced to confront frequently. The writers set these opinions up as the jokes - we are supposed to laugh at these characters for their out-dated and ridiculous viewpoints, rather than at Leslie or her team for fighting for equality.
that's actually a really good point holy crap
Crystal Wong Damn, you really broke that down well. God, Parks and Rec is good.
I always thought that Parks and Rec was pretty direct about its feminism, though, rather than being something people wouldn't expect to have a point to it like a Rom Com or cartoon. Amy Poehler, after all.
Because it isnt surprising at all.
The problem with your argument is the pornstar, Brandi Maxx. Though she is a complete feminist in the fact that she is open with her sexuality, when Joan compared Leslie to her, Leslie was uncomfortable and said that those two were nothing alike. Leslie shamed Brandi just for being involved in porn, which is her choice.
How about we just have A CHARACTER! I don't fucking care about how masculine or feminine or violent a character is. As long as you give me a good character I'm happy.
+Jackman LeBlanc I agree, we want better characters in general. But sometimes we have to analyze what we are doing and how before we can improve.
+Jackman LeBlanc Agreed. I just want good characters and movies. I couldn't give any less shits if the entire movie is made up of straight, white men, or black, transgendered women, so long as it's a good movie.
+Jackman LeBlanc This is it 100%. Gender does not matter in the slightest. If a movie ends up having 15 white dudes as the cast that doesn't matter, if it ends up having 15 black lesbian trans-gendered women as the cast, that doesn't matter either. The only thing that matters is if it was a good movie or not.
+Jackman LeBlanc So much agreement! Hopefully in the future we aren't concerned with bullshit like the bechdel test, or worrying if a film is either misogynistic or 'feminazi propaganda', or racist because there are no black people/asians whatever. Hopefully we just make good movies with complex characters and don't worry about all of that distracting, dividing bullshit. You know who worries about all that shit though? (besides SJWs) Censors and film executives. And while non-stereotypical diversity and positive female sexuality is now more accepted, we havn't reached the point of not being sensitive to all of this yet. Maybe when that happens everyone will come down off their high horses and critique movies for more valid reasons.
+arbootieoaks +SoulOfSparta +Brandon Morris
What you all are saying is good and valid, for a single movie. Tearing a movie apart just because there are no females in it is being petty, that's true.
But try to look at trends in movies, at how the majority of male and females characters are portrayed.
Look who is usually playing the hero, and who is a victim just to inspire that hero.
Look at which characters have an impact of the plot, and which are just plot devices or exposition dumps.
Look which ones are "objects" and which ones are actual characters.
We are a lot better than a few years back, that's true. But we can't say representation is finally fair. Far from that, actually.
I just finished the video....the waiting game begins again. Sigh.
+Isagail Carshuen I tried to hold my breath whilst waiting last time and it didn't work, maybe I should have told someone I was doing it and they would make a video quicker...but ow hell.
+Isagail Carshuen The waiting game sucks. Let's play Hungry Hungry Hippos!
+Elizabeth Schneider I feel your pain. Though my youtube seach bar always says: Michael Swaim or MS Werd
+Chris Hill What as an outsider I don't understand is how that movement got so out of hand as to involve people getting "doxed", death threats, physical violence and a boatload of sexism. To me that completely drowned the actual issue it was supposed to bring awareness to.
As an outsider that should show you the propaganda does works, because if you would see doxxing, online threats, and sexism happened on both sides. And physical violence? Did you just add that? Oh and the SPJ which some small organization that's been doing journalism for like 100 years or something and found from their own journalism that gamergate was telling the truth. But of course no talks about all that huh....
Clueless is honestly a hidden gem in that's been hidden in the sands of time
It's very self aware, and progressive
incredible updated version of Jane Austens "Emma"!
HOW DID THEY FORGET THE "DUMB" PROGESSIVE MOVIE: Legally Blonde?!
Like how she rescued the (stereotypical) nerd from ridicule? Compassionate and clever!
or anything amanda bynes made
Probably because it's one of the more well-known examples, and they were looking for stuff that has feminist messages that tend to fly under the radar.
I disagree a little bit about women resorting to violence being interpreted as they are behaving as a masculine stereotype. Yes, violence gets coded in our culture as masculine (which is an issue already), but if you want to have women in any modern action movie setting, violence is most likely going to be involved for a few characters, and women characters can be included and have genuine character development without them just being female versions of male characters. Women can be bad ass being violent or non violent and we need to see both in film.
+Sonnera agree. In Kill Bill, it was all about the bride getting her child back. She was a mother on a warpath, and getting her vengeance long the way. It sad that feminism has degraded so much that practically every female action hero's are thrown out for being too male. Maybe that's what feminism needs, to fucking man up and stop wining about everything.
+DiceWarwick
Feminist: Women shouldn't be depicted as meek and submissive!
Men: So you want them strong and being badasses?
Feminist: No than they are being too much likes males!
Men: So what do you want than?
Feminist: WE DON'T KNOW AND IT'S YOUR FAULT!
+Goddamnitiwantaname i doubt we can simplify a social movement that has re shaped history and has been going on for almost a century into one person.
also merging every filmmaker into a character named "men" is amazingly stupid too.
+bromo sanovo nah man feminists back than were psycho as well but they one the culture war back than so they changed history to suit them. all major empires do this as well as ideologys.
bromo sanovo
"Reshaped history"? Yeah, I remember the century long struggle women had to simply have the right to vote and work a job. All those bloody battles they had to fight, all those unjust arrestments and the dark times when jails were full of feminist whose only desire was to get their voices heard. At times it looked really grim because the patriachy was openly sabotaging feminist and the streets ran red with the blood of innocent women.
Oh wait, that didn't happen? Because women merely asked for the right to vote and being seen as equals and they got it.
Modern day feminism is a joke and a bad one at that. In India young girls are forced to marry old men four times their age. In Africa girls get their gentials mutilated. In China women get shot because they had the gall to ask for an education. And does that concern western first world feminists? Of course not! They are busy chasing a ghost named patriachy that doesn't exist and screaming rape and oppression because someone said "You suck" on Twitter.
And yeah, not all men of, course. But those who consider themselves feminists are already included in the feminist side. And those men who do not care about it won't care about it still, no matter what I write here.
Such an enjoyable video. I really love Clueless, it's a great example of a character that seems like a blond, rich airhead actually being smart, caring and strong. Cher succeeds not by shedding her femininity, but by embracing it and acknowledging that it's part of her identity (also the movie is mad quotable). Being based on the book Emma probably also didn't hurt, since it's by Jane Austen, THE sneaky feminist writer of the 19th century.
I can't believe they didn't mention Golden Girls!
+Patriot Sons of Liberty Hell yea!!!
Yeah. Four older ladies owning the sh*t out of their sexuality and discussing sex openly. Discussing important issues at the time, like HIV/AIDS, major surgeries, and The Cold War. And they are all older, all the different life experiences, interacting and having open ended conversation about issues young people are too afraid to talk about. Also, they eat a f*ck ton of cheesecake. And still have body confidence. #GoGoldenGirls
Not a movie and definitely not stupid
It was an amazing TV show.
The strong-willed, cinematic, female I care for most: Ellen Ripley from Alien.
She is a great, three-dimensional, bad-ass character. A hero, with realistic strengths and weaknesses. Her gender and sexuality aren't ignored or skirted around, they are as integral to her personality as our gender is in real life, but it is not over-emphasised. Her femininity is part of her make-up, but her gender is mostly irrelevant to her role in the film. She just happens to be the best able to deal with the situation at hand out of a diverse crew.
We as an audience, aren't bludgeoned with verbal and visual cues that show us just what a strong, independent, perfect, modern woman she is. She doesn't embody forced male or female traits to overcome her situation. She just overcomes the Alien as a hero. There are other 'weaker' characters in Alien, male and female, but they are dealing with a xenomorph, most of us would be weaker in that situation and that's the beauty of the film. Ripley emerges as the hero through her shear will to survive.
Within the context of the film its believable. No gender-politics, no agenda, no bullshit.
TL;DR, Ripley is a strong CHARACTER first, who also happens to be a woman. Some female traits aid her and shape her, but its not solely because of, or in spite of her gender that she is a bad-ass. She just becomes a bad-ass. ~Smart Alec
I don't disagree with you but there's probably a reason for that www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/06/female-characters-written-for-men
Hey!!! Don't forget Ahsoka Tano! She one of the best female characters ever!!! She's amazing!!!
Three words, Toph Bei Fong
Except her role was originally written for a man and Sigourney Weaver was just so good that they changed it to a woman after so technically she’s just doing to masculine role archetype.
I think they are referring to how media often portrays violence as a masculine trait. In the most basic of plots it's the man's job to fight and save the girl and the girl's role is to be rescued. Here in a media based debate they are talking about how while women fighting and being violent is welcomed it is seen as a masculine role in movies and tv thereby in such things a woman is talking on a masculine trait to be badass and they are discussing ways that women can be badass in media without the need for violence for anyone can be seen as badass for kicking as but it's the ultimate showing of an amazing badass character to be badass without needing to fight/kill/ect. What are the chances anyone actually reads this?
+Amanda Johnson Probably a lot higher if you use ","'s.
+Amanda Johnson I think what you mentioned is a big part of it. The attitude is what's undermining the badass. Even in some of the films with the badass women, they're compared to men as if reach the same level of violence was an accomplishment.
Women accepted at equal face value are the best examples of how to badass right, Ripley in Alien for example.
+Amanda Johnson How is it seen as masculine? That makes no sense. You're projecting something into a place where it doesn't apply. They're still women when they're violent and stuff. That's not taken away.
Justin L I know that. I stated that. I was saying how it's shown as masculine in media. And while I love women who kick ass I personally find it even more satisfying when they are badass when not fighting.
Amanda Johnson You only perceive as masculine because you're projecting gender roles onto female characters who step out of them. If that makes sense.
omg the trope of heros being empowered by a huge loss is misogynist now? really?
+Confuzzled Tomato Batman lost his parents. So did Robin. Superman lost his entire planet. Spiderman lost his uncle and his girlfriend.
But loss as a character arc is bad when it happens to females.
thanks, i was gonna come up with examples too, but had a brain freeze and could only think of is Dante's Inferno the game haha.
Confuzzled Tomato Mine were all superheros... but with the latest outcry over Black Widow it seemed relevant.
I think that the point was more "most films think that woman can only be badass if the experience intense tragedy" and while you do have male superheroes who go through similar shit, you also have superheroes who are motivated by other means.
Poisoned-cupcake Tragedy of some kind is in nearly all superhero stories... I can't think of one that isn't (albeit, I'm not a comic book person)
Does anyone else think Dan and Soren's friendship is the most precious, supportive thing?
*Clip tastefully not shown* Aw shucks, thank you, Cracked!
Holy snikies! what are you doing here in my binge watching After Hours clips, Nycea?
I love After Hours!
They sure saved our precious feelings there, but not for someone shot to death in the head...
Ah, left wing feminist totalitarian logic.
===
In response to:
Super Princess Tea Party 2 months ago
Clip tastefully not shown Aw shucks, thank you, Cracked!
*****
Go outside, honey.
Try to invalidate with counterpoints, sweetie.
Something that people tend to altogether ignore is that not every movie is striving to make statements about gender roles or society at large. Characters aren't always meant to be representatives of some demographic. In fact, I'd say that's rarely the case. More often than not, the point is to entertain and tell a story. If a woman makes a man a sandwich in a movie, there's no reason to assume she's supposed to represent all women. We can only assume that she's just supposed to represent herself. On a related and important note, just because something is portrayed doesn't mean that it's condoned. Satire is just way over the heads of too many people. People have to be outraged about something though. Otherwise, we'd all have way too much free time.
+IVIegadude I totally agree! people keep ignoring this
Well, the thing is, it's hard NOT to make a statement about gender. The Animaniacs and Super Troopers weren't actively trying to make a feminist statement, but they did. Conversely, Meet the Parents wasn't trying to make a negative assessment of femininity by portraying the main character's job as a nurse humiliating because it's a job for women, but that sure as hell what ended up happening.
Brian Jensen you completely missed the point! and really a lot of people miss the point when they try to evaluate representation in media, art has always been inspired by reality, trying to change art instead of changing reality feels like lying to ourselves
But it's not directly inspired by reality; it's a reflection of the filmmakers view of reality, and most filmmakers in Hollywood are men who cut their teeth in on of the most gender imbalanced industries in America.
Brian Jensen ok, and you think it's more important to demand movies that made inclusive in a somehow artificial way, as most directors, according to you, don't see things this way, than it is to demand more inclusion of women in film or as directors? you see, this is my problem with the people who explicitly or implicitly use the concept of hegemony, look, hegemony is a dominant system of ideology, if you want to fight ideology, the quickest way to do that is construct an appealing counter-hegemony, and constitute it as hegemony with time, when you try to demand that other people's speeches are less hegemonic, though, you are trying to catch water with your fingers, it's a waste of effort, because instead of formulating a better, more inclusive discourse, you are just trying to slap a counter hegemonic idea into hegemonic discourse, and that is not very comfortable, and more importantly, it isn't how hegemony constructs itself, hegemony doesn't impose itself, it seduces you into buying it, and i'm sorry but "i need more representation and if not i will complain or try to ban you or harass you because you wear a shirt or try to get your painting down" is not very seductive
What about a movie, that instead of being condescending by making a big deal about women, just make a normal movie, have it be about a women, and never bring it up. Like why not have The Martian, but starring a woman, and at no point does anyone say "girls are strong!"
+Janine Summers "Do you mean... Gravity?"
+Janine Summers I do, Janine, thank you
+Janine Summers The Hunger Games?
Or Mad Max: Fury Road.
+Janine Summers or even Jessica Jones
Clueless is my favorite movie. I love how it's just fun, wholesome highschool drama. Cheer isn't petty towards Tai when she loses attention from others. She's just confused or... Clueless. The fact that she ends up with the older guy once she grows up as a person and develops a more deep understanding of herself and the world around her just makes sense.
What about Mean Girls. It is technically sort of a re-make of Clueless but with a lot more humor and much more discussion about the power of women. There are very few male roles in this movie, and the guys who are in this movie only have a few lines each. The women certainly take over this film but make it much more than a general "chick flick." Yes, the girl gets the guy in the end but only after a ton of manipulation of everyone around her and a major lesson of what "girl power" is supposed to be about.
The major adult lead in this film was Tina Fey's character, Ms. Norbury, who is a divorced woman and her one piece of advice to Cady, is that she doesn't need to change herself to get a guy. Ms. Norbury is the ultimate example of a woman who simply doesn't need a man to be great. She is smart and sexy all on her own and even draws some attention from the principal which she completely ignores.
The plastics aren't pretty to get men. They use their beauty and their prowess to undermine authority and maintain control over the entire school. Guys are merely an asset to them. Janis Ian calls Regina George's guy "arm candy" or a prop and Regina exerts extra control over the men around her by cheating on them and lying. Her friends, except for Cady who likes Aaron, don't really care and sympathize with Regina getting dumped because it means that she and therefore they as a group lost a little control over that situation.
I know I'm a year late to your comment but I just want to say I agree with you all the way. Except for one thing that is the only thing at fault in the whole movie - the way the ending and "lesson learned" moment is portrayed.
At the end, when they all go their separate ways, we are supposed to see them as these entirely different people, better ones, who learned from their mistakes and bettered themselves. But why did their styles and personalities change so much (With the exception of Cady who just went back to her regular self)??
I mean, throughout the movie we see Regina and the girls use their clothes and acessories as symbols of the power they have with other people. Their style is literally the visual representation of their badassery and influence on others. By making them change completely in the end, the movie is basically perpetuating the idea that to fit in society and be part of it, they had to transform EVERYTHING about themselves, even the things that were just completely harmless and not at all related to their personality change (which I agree was for the best, no argument there). So they literally had to "learn their place" aka completely loose their power to fit into the standards society created for women.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to be a better person but there's no need to loose yourself completely along the way. All in all still one of my favorite movies. (also, sorry if I made any mistakes, it's late, English is not my first language and I'm tired)
YOU GO, GLENN COCO!!
It's not a remake of Clueless. Clueless was a take on Jane Austen's Emma.
Nothing like clueless
@@TheBurninBaby Yes...Regina got to dress 'ugly' to be a good person. ..like wtf? ?!!
sorry but Clueless is so superior to Mean Girls
I'm surprised Lisa Simpson, or the Simpsons in general, didn't come up. Lisa has the versatility, and while she has her short comings she learns and adapts, she stands up for her self, is in on the hijinx-y jokes, she's a feminist icon.
So is Velma Dinkle of Scooby Doo. She's the brains of Mystery Inc.
I can't tell if they are trying to be serious or making fun of feminist analyst of fiction. The Poe's law is so real.
This comment is really the only thing that got me to watch the video. And I love these things.
+Gray Sloth If you've read any of the actual website lately, you'd know they're probably doing a mixture of both, here. Lately, Cracked has been pretty big on using comedy to be progressive.
Tristan Smith
I am not sure that progressivism is compatible with comedy, so I must commend them for taking on such a challenge.
+Gray Sloth
This is a comedy channel, it is satire on how feminists can't agree on what feminism is. I actually like this direction cracked is taking, especially the subliminal set up of 4 friends with such different views still being able to talk about these things. Without having to resort to hilarious misunderstandings or sexual attractions or unbelievable coincidences or acrobatic accidents. I like how intelligent the comedy is.
+Gray Sloth It's mocking feminism. Notice how they describe all violence as being inherently masculine. This is so extreme it couldn't possibly be real.
Clueless is actually based on the excellent book Emma by Jane Austen
What about Avater: the Last Airbender? Or even better. Legend of Korra? Toph and Katara are epic, and tophs daughters r pretty
amazing. And even though Kuvira is the bad guy, she thinks she is doing the right thing. She's badass.
To answer Soren's request for an interesting and diverse cast of women. Two Words: Steel Magnolias! Three Words: Fried Green Tomatoes!
Personally I've never understood the complaint that "women who are violent or badass in movies are just assuming masculine rolls." Can't we let women throw down and kick an ass or two without accusing it of being misogynistic?
Besides, I think violence being perceived as a masculine trait is a misconception. Nothing is inherently masculine about violence, violence is something both genders take part in equally throughout the animal kingdom. Even if you averaged it out and concluded that it's most exhibited by males, that still doesn't change the fact that both males and females take part in it. I think the whole idea of violence being a masculine roll that women aren't allowed to take part in within media is just presupposing a problem where there is none.
If a women in a movie is saved by a man it's seen as misogynistic.
If a woman saves herself, it's seen as simply, her assuming the masculine roll of saving, therefore it's also misogynistic.
it's a real catch 22.
+Kasey Kellums It is more about a women needing to assuming a masculine role for the sake of validation, the easiest way to show masculine validation is through violence since we associate violence with masculinity. That doesn't mean a women can't be a fighter but as it is fighter is limited to violence. Someone doesn't have to use violence to be a fighter. This is true for both male and female characters. But we don't appreciate the intelligent fighter. The kind that uses their intelligence to achieve their goal rather than raw violence.
Unfortunately we can't apply logic from animals to humans. In lions it is usually the females that stand for the most violence true but since humans is not lions we have to look at society from the lenses of human nature, not lions nature. This thing about male validation from violence is something you can see happen to a male character as well. He assume his role as a man through violence, before that he is not a man. Even a man taking on typical feminine traits or object validates his masculinity through violence. That's why it is problematic that a female character gets validation through violence. Not because it is bad in and of itself, but because she only gets validation through male coded actions, in this case violence.
If we could move away from violence as a validation of masculinity it would no longer be a problem to have a woman kicking ass in a movie, using physical means. Personally I prefer watching the kind of person who kicks ass through cleverness and through being intelligent. Like watching an elaborated plan being set in motion and the beautiful conclusion. That also allow for more character development than people who only solve things through violence.
So if a women used her wits to save herself that wouldn't be a problem, but is she need to use violence to save herself it becomes male validation which is a problem.
+Ikajo ^^This.
Damn, why can't I be so articulate?
Sophia V What a coincidence, my name is also Sofia.
I have a bit of an advantage ;) I'm studying Professional writing, being able to express my thoughts through writing is kind of an requirement.
+Ikajo
Can't we have both? Can't we have smart women and women that kick ass physically? Variety is the spice of life.
I just think if people complain that a female lead in an action movie is bad because she uses violence to solve her problems instead of her brain,(therefore making her stereotypicaly masculine) that the complaint is misplaced. It is an action movie after all. It's like complaining that Neo didn't try to sit down and talk out a negotiations with the agents in The Matrix, then claiming that because he didn't, the movie makers just want to depict men as violent people who resort to punching their problems instead of reasoning them out. Maybe the complaint about the general concept is legitimate, but directly to the movie, that complaint would be silly. It's and action movie, not a thoughtful drama.
It seems to me like you're saying you want more than just violent aggressive movies with female leads. Maybe you'd like an Ocean's 11 type movie with intelligent focused female leads. Me too. But that doesn't mean we can't have Beatrice killing Bill in separate movie universe, with wonderful, actiony, kung-fu violence too.
Kasey Kellums Look, I have watched and read a number of things that contain violence. The problem is that there is a very low number of movies that do things differently. At the moment we don't have variety and we don't have other ways of bringing validation to female characters, yet. I don't mind action in an action movie but female characters in an action movie is usually only a token character. They have no real importance to the plot. That many actions movie lack a compelling plot is also a problem. Most violence is senseless.
The problem isn't violence or that some people, in movies use it to solve something, the problem is that we don't see anything different. Depiction of violence isn't a problem either but when depiction of violence doesn't explore the negative sides of violence as well, then you have a problem. It also a problem that we seldom see a middle ground. Tv-series do this better, some of them at least.
You know, Matrix didn't have to be action but it didn't have to lame as you try to make it sound. There are other ways of dealing with things. Sure negotiating would have made for a boring movie. But what if the movie about the attempt to unravel the Matrix? Seeking a way of reaching humanity and trying to find a way of co-existing.
I'm a writer. I tell stories. I don't shun away from violence in my writing. But I do think that there are many ways of using it as a storytelling element. If we don't want a female character to fall into the troupe of masculinity we need to change violence as a male validation. That's when it becomes a problem. Not that violence is a part of a story.
"2014 was...years ago."
That's technically true, at time of writing/reading/watching.
the points against Kill Bill were probably the weakest I have ever seen on After Hours lol
+Najee Fareed
I face palmed when they said "she only became strong after terrible things happened to her." It's like they don't know the first thing about a revenge movie. You don't have a character smashing a man's head in with a door before they have any reason to do it.
There are just some great faces in this one video. Like Soren's just so happy talking about Dot and the German woman. Plus Katie just has priceless reactions to Dan's comments on Azzedine Alaia and Soren becoming a self parody, and she just breaks when Michael interrupts during the endplate.
So wait, if Hello Nurse is so accomplished, why does she spend most of her time playing second banana to Doctor Scratchensniff? Why is she a Nurse instead of being a Doctor herself?Does the fact that they spend one episode giving her props make up for the fact that she's just eye candy in every other episode? Am I just thinking about this too hard?
+Raziel312 shhh.. you are supposed to nod, close your mind and go to your safe space..
+Raziel312 And there is that little line in the end of the aforementioned song about Hello Nurse, or the nurse, or Nurse. "If she's not everything that we've said, Then may lightning strike us dead!" English is NOT my native language, so maybe I misunderstand it, but doesn't that mean, Hello nurse is NOT that smart, kind yaddayadda, what they say?
Okay, the loophole is, they were not struck dead, so maybe they are partially right. Even in that case Hello Nurse IS not just an eye candy, because if we just take out a few thing from the list, she stays more than a blonde with a good hourglass shape figure.
And what if Doctor Scratchensniff is there only for show and Hello Nurse does most of the work behind the scene, 'cos the studio guys said "She is just a woman, she can't be a doctor", so she has to secretly coordinate that bumbling idiot to do his job correctly, and even than he fails myseralbly. So the only way to make those loones stay is her being gorgeous. Dot knows the trick, she is cute. She even has a line with Minerva.
Dot: Boys
Minerva: No control
+madmanarrivednow I don't know whether they get struck by lightning or not, but if they don't, then everything they said in the song is true.
+ASuperCoolUsername Well... they were IMMEDIATELY struck by that lightning, but they were not dead after :D
Say what you want about some individuals in Cracked, I thought this was a good video discussing feminism for everyone.
Same here
Feminism is unnecessary in the western world
You are unnecessary in the western world.
kukurbuki i know. But this isn't about me, it's about how obsolete feminism is
+Naod Amdetsyon it absolutely is. Seriously why would you even consider posting such a ludicrous comment?
Me: I loved how the female perspective feels genuinely portrayed in this video. Down to a vaggin' around joke.
Katie: ...and I wrote it.
Theme abandoned: Couldn't love this more. Miss this show. Love Small Beans' post-acrackedalyptic spin off.
Mad Max demonstrated how audiences win when women get to be complex characters just like everyone else. It makes a better movie. It still had beauty shots, but not that many
+sir zophiel Oh, Fury Road probably shouldn't win awards for complex characters (although the performances are quite good for what they are); it doesn't matter though. The one-dimensional roles we get are still more diverse than you'd see for women characters in a lot of movies; by having most of the major characters be women, it allows them to fill all sorts of niches instead of just being "the woman character".
+sir zophiel Complex as in multidimensional. She didn't have one basic motivation like many female characters, was written with a variety of emotion etc. Her character felt well developed.
+Sir Zophiel (Pragmatic Atheist) first of all they aren't all one dimensional. They're not necessarily the most well rounded, but you can certainly do worse.
Secondly, you can't judge this movie by its characters like that. It's about the world, man. Max himself is little more than a mysterious drifter, making his way through the fascinating post apocalyptic world.
lmao defining violent tendencies as masculine is the opposite of feminist well at least the intended. isn't feminism supposed to be fighting for all gender equality instead it seems they're trying to make both genders distinct to each other which is not really classified as gender equality.
+GodRise Being violent is as much a masculine trait as 'being a CEO of a company' is. It's just trying to associate bad things with masculinity when violence is gender neutral.
+GodRise
They refer to them as 'traditional' male roles.
Also, where did you get the idea that the point of gender equality is to make the genders less distinct?
Daniel Gehring that's exactly what gender equality means lol. If you're for gender equality you want everyone no matter the gender to be treated equally and to have the same rights and opportunities. That means things seen as "masculine" are a big no no because you want everyone to be able to relate to the same tendencies and be seen as to have the same capabilities regardless of the gender. For example a soilder was traditionally looked as a masculine role but has been changed recently to now include females as well now erasing the term masculine and making it an equal opportunity job.
che3se1495 definitely.
Daniel Gehring "violence" isn't a distinct characteristic of a male. Nor is it a role.
Buffy the vampire Slayer
Is violence a masculine thing? I always thought it was an animal thing. I don't think that killing her enemies makes Beatrix Kiddo more masculine, it just makes her vengeful.
Women are not permitted to express a full range of human emotion. We can cry, but we can't get pissed and we can not fight back... And if we do we must never ever win... Or we are too masculine for modern feminism.
@@jdhutchinson506
Bull shit woman defending themself is encouraged in fact I'd say more so, back then
No matter your size or gender always go for the throat with the hardest hit and/or object you can, there's delicate bones in there and the mucous used to lubricate it can be somewhat self adhesive so even just a quick poke can make it feel like they're choking to death. You can't breath you can't fight, just sayin'
Exactly! Who says women are all pacifists? Besides Hollywood before the '60s and Madison Avenue before the '70s, lol.
JD Hutchinson - yeah, I liked the video, but just like modern feminism it sort of fell into its own trap.
I see some double-think in this
+silentblast stop harassing me
+Yann G ...no
+silentblast miss ogentist
+silentblast that's all feminism is.
+silentblast Everything is self empowering sexism, deal with it.
"This is why I can't have nice wings" gets me every time
Well, ignoring all debates for and against the message, I just rather like some of the character interaction in this skit.
Beatrix Kiddo, the Bride, whatever you wanna call her, she was just hell-bent on revenge. I don't see how a woman being "masculine" is anti-feminist since it's about equality and that women can be tough as well. I don't believe making female characters who are as trigger-happy as men, or as hell-bent on revenge as men is necessarily anti-feminist.
Because some people perceive movies portraying women as masculine means that the writers believe women can only be powerful if they're masculine, as opposed for other traits, typically associated with femininity. Which I think can get kinda.... contradictory?
Well in an ideal, preconception-free world, there's no such thing as a "masculine" or a "feminine" trait that isn't purely biological. Violence isn't necessarily masculine in the same way that, say, cooking isn't necessarily feminine. Therefore, it shouldn't be considered weird or out of line if a female character uses extreme violence to achieve her goals (or at least no more out of line than extreme violence by anyone else XD)
Also SPOILERS
She thought her unborn daughter died, that's enough to put any would be mom into a rage.
+TallicaMan1986 yes! I agree; i think it was a beautiful display of her strength!
Equality has nothing to do with being masculine or feminine, it's about being considered an equal "human being," without focusing on what's between your legs. What they are referring to is that they are taking on typically male actions to prove they are like men, not equal to men,, but that they are more like a male than a female.
Came here for Animaniacs...
Same here. Dot rules!
Hell ya
I love Katie and was going to put a comment on how good the script for this episode was.... but then Soren said "I was the eye candy" and I just cracked up, he's a precious cinnamon roll
I'm a woman and I love when girls are the heroes in action movies or television shows. For my entire childhood, Xena and Buffy were my idols. But they also showcased men that were just as strong. It was a good show for everyone.
That's true though sadly there's a shift of making the women hyper competent while the men are not strong in any specific way and being reduced to comic relief. I definitely prefer a more evenly matched type of dynamic. Which is much harder to find.
I'm bout to just buy the entire series of animaniacs on dvd
Kill Bill is violent and that's bad.
Slappy squirrel uses CARTOON violence and that's OK.
6:53 Violence is fine but it can't be the only thing
Is Kratos a bad character?
I think it was less about cartoon violence and more about Slappy Squirrel being a snarky cynic who is always 110% done with everyone and their inane bullshit...like a fluffy Daria.
why can't the bride be a feminist icon. Quentin tarintino makes hyper violent movies and should be respected that even though the main character is female, maintains that outlook. I don't think people look at that movie and think "that's the only way women can be badass" they think "damn, she's badass". you really discredit the human mind by thinking that's the message of the bride. as for talking about bill, that's the whole point of the movie. revenge and killing bill (the title, for gods sake). I love that movie and honestly didn't think that argument was great.
*Tarantino. I spelled that very wrong.
+Commander Shepard Her being so focused on Bill is a slight problem because that is such a dominating part of what the character is. She is not really fully defined past that. She's certainly a good and refreshing female character, but she could be fuller.
She's not really saying that Kill Bill isn't feminist - in my opinion the Bride is awesomely independent - but that the trope it subscribes to of intense loss and pain making a woman baddass is overdone. It's not really a Kill Bill-specific criticism. Look at the new Tomb Raider series for example. Lara gets the shit kicked out of her and is nearly raped and it's seen as 'character building', but Lara Croft didn't need all of that. She was totally baddass already and it all came across as a bit gratuitous. Not saying that it's not allowed as a character arch and can quite often be done very well, but it's certainly over done and often unnecessary. It's like film makers and the likes can't think of any other way that a woman can grow without either a romantic plot or extreme violence
+Jonah She is an assassin out to get revenge. Its a revenge movie ofcourse shes gonna be focused on by Bill, that's the person who wronged her. That's like saying Frodo is too focused on destroying the 1 ring. Theres a whole bunch of male characters like this
+Frances Murray Firstly, THE BRIDE was already a baddass, the intense loss and pain didn't make her a baddass, that was just used 2 showcase her baddassness and also 2 make her a hero and make us sympathetic 2 her cause so that even if she kills 88ppl we, still root 4 her
"Yeah, I do, Katie. 'Cause I'm a superconvenient strawman for your argument YOU WISH"
Daniel talking about positive female representation is gettin me hot n' bothered.
I love After Hours. I found this channel two days ago and spent the whole day watching all the After Hours videos. What I like about it is that it gives you something to think about while still being very entertaining.
Also, they (Michael) referenced Asperger's in only one episode so I'm not sure if it was a joke or not (again, it was Michael), but I'm a 21 year old guy with Asperger's named Daniel. I thought that was amusing :)
So often I see a woman in a movie, even if she's supposed to be a strong character, and she's not. She's almost thrown in there just to have the excuse. Even characters like Black Widow from the Avengers are lacking something.
This is why we read the comics.
Wanna take that back now?
Imagine watching comic book movies for strong characters.
Hey, movies can't get everything right. The fuck, this is why there are hundreds of thousands of comics and many captains of one character!!! Movies don't have time to get too many details! Additionally, Black Widow is a normal human. We have those in the real world.
@@edienandy Yeah, like Ms. Marvel. More like Ms. Overpowered!!! The worst party of her character was the casting of Brie Larson. She's a fucking asshole! She said the equivalent to, "I could replace you and be so much better," to Chris Hemsworth and the Chris who plays Captain America.
i cant belive i didnt realize the gamergate reference back in the day
I think true progress is shown by being able to show any sort of women, even horrible ones, and not be called sexist for it.
O shit, just realised. The three men in this series all have glaring character flaws that are often commented on, but the female character has no such blatant flaw
Except perhaps her oversensitivity to feminist issues, i mean sometimes she's right it is kinda sexist and othertimes she's being dumb or arguing against actual equality. But i think that flaw is one shared by the writers as when she does this it is never pointed to as a flaw so it doesnt count
Maybe this is just so she can be the one sane person to draw contrast from the other characters and it's better for it. Or maybe the writers had trouble writing an interesting flawed female character, or at least one they didnt think they'd be called sexist for making.
I mean sure she has intentional flaws and complexity but nowhere on the scale of the other three characters
"Ocean's 8". There's a variety of ethnicities and backgrounds among the main characters, not to mention skillsets. There are some very impressive role models up on that screen. At least, that's what my middle-aged white man's eyes see.
You're absolutely right and I'm a young white woman but that movie hadn't come out when this was written/filmed
Yeah but it's piggy backing of the original, "Ocean's 11", which did the same premise, just with men.
@@greenman394 So?
You guys fucked up in your criticism of Kill Bill. She was always the badass. She was the only person taught exploding heart technique.
After Hours is my absolute favorite Cracked content. It's always good (which I can't say about the articles. At all). Keep up the awesome, insightful, informative, hilarious work.
aggression is not mainly a masculinity thing, it's a basic emotion exhibited by any human male or female
Joseph Ben-Obasa it’s considered unfeminine to be aggressive and masculine to be aggressive
Yeah. Plus, while westing one of my female friends, I was kicked in the balls by some bitch. The only reason I want to go back in time and punch her in the face is because that pain I felt that day has been boiling for about half a decade so nearly half my life.
"What did I miss?" I was tinkling. Best line ever.
Also, side note: why can Michael not say "bitchin'" without getting corrected, but Katie can say "dickin' around" all she wants. GTFO of here with those double standards! #meninism
+david taylor The fact that meninism is a 4chan troll movement has become pretty much public knowledge by now so you should use another hashtag if you want to troll effectively.
You're telling him to be an effective troll by not using a troll movement hashtag?
elocfreidon Yes, because when everyone knows you're trolling, it tends to work less effectively. You have to think of something new. #MalePride or what do I know.
Beatrice Kiddo is not just "violent." She is a polyglot, she's a rhetorical genius with cross-cultural fluency, and she shows herself to be capable of incredible physical and emotional endurance. She is absolutely a feminist film icon.
yep
It's probably already been said, but I'm saying it:
"I could do without the trope where only after a woman has extreme violence against her that she comes into her true strength"
Cause...ya know...that's never been a trope for men, I mean except for Batman, Superman, the Punisher, Wolverine, The Boys, to name a few
Wanna know something that I see been stealthly feminist? Barbie dolls.I know I know it promotes beauty standards, but hear me out.Which other doll showcase women in just as many jobs as her? She has been everything, from model to fucking paleontologist . She can be a doctor, a police woman, firefighter everything while still being a woman.That's really motivational for little girls. Just hope they can see beyond the beauty and look what she is doing.
+Kleber Souza Filho It is just unfortunately that girls who plays with Barbies see fewer career paths than girls who don't. And that after just a couple of hours of playing. If Barbie was marketed with focus on different jobs it would probably be different, if she was presented differently. But she isn't.
+Ikajo Yes, actually that is how Mattel is currently marketing Barbie: by focusing on all of her different jobs and the idea that girls can be whatever they want to be when grow up. I've seen at least a dozen of Barbie ads about this before CZcams videos over the past month. But you're right about Barbie not being presented that way in the past. It'll definitely be interesting to see how this new marketing strategy plays out though.
"Give me an interesting and diverse cast of female characters that don't have to resort to violence to be badasses."
Wut? That's like saying you want female characters to be gangsta without any glamorized criminality. You're desperately trying to feminize pop masculinity to the point that the words you appropriate become meaningless.
+Sarog I actually would love a movie about, say, a group of bad-ass female hackers. Or undercover spies. Or I don't know, any other way people can be badass without resorting to violence.
+Ikajo .... nope. Havent got one. My mind flashed through hundrends of things but all contained violence in some way... I cant even think of a movie with men that didnt have some violence... I mean I guess there is your standard romcom but those kind of defeat the point... Why cant i think of a decent movie without some violence?
TheDark4light Which is kind of my point. Even in non-action movies there is at least some violence. Well, I think I can think of a couple of animes, aimed at young girls who don't have violence but I wouldn't say they are badass even if they are not bad.
+Sarog Exactly. Violece is bad, so being a badass infers that one has a violent streak.
+Sarog
It's like saying that they want men to be portrayed as nurturing, but can't act nice to people.
I kid you not when I say that some the most sexist things I've ever heard have been said by feminists.
Moral of the story, Animaniacs could have saved us all. Dude, they taught me how to remember all of the state capitols. Take that Ms. Terrell!
This show has gone quite left.
mainly because the right is old-fashioned and nonsensical
Jack Roden in what way?
***** That's trump not the entire right.
***** Just wondering does everyone else think political parties are garbage. Cause' I sure do.
+Vincent Macary their all one party then were supposed to cheer for them when they cross the party line to cooperate? that's called doing your f-ing job!....
Thank you cracked for recognizing Clueless as progressive/ positive for women. It's okay for women to be feminine and a great leading character.
Feminism is a word going into changes, like the word gay had a different meaning, i think that old feminism is egalitarianism because the new feminism is breaking apart and make people care more for 'what' you are then 'who' you are, in many ways it is like a religion.
"She sure does talk about Bill a whole lot..."
No. She doesn't. She tries to find him. So she can kill him. The only time she reminisces about her past with Bill was when she was finally face to face with him... And it was literally moments before she ended his life.
So yeah. She's not really focused on Bill in the way you implied.
Edit - Nevermind, having watched more and scrolled through the comments, I realize this was just self-indulgent hypocritical double-think.
The Internet is a series of gates.
It has nothing to do with women or video games and everything to do with equality in gate criticism. Jesus, Michael, do some fucking research!
+Joel Farrelly
Gamergate _was_ connected to an issue with women, though, specifically in the case of targeted, gendered online harassment and threats. Gamergate wasn't _about_ that, but it was undeniably a part of it.
Lynne the Trendy Tetraodontiforme Nope. It was just gates.
Not sure if trolling but the whole movement began with the butthurt bf harassing of Zoe, so...
Johnahue23 So, wait, I'm confused. When did they all start gaming gates?
+Johnahue23 actually no that was #burgerandfries people who wanted ethics used the #gamergate tag to distance themselves from the Zoe post.
”You heard gamers are upset about gates or something?" LOOOOL I LOST IT
YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE
Brooklyn nine nine
That is all
0:31 - 0:38 That’s some of the best and funniest sarcasm I’ve ever seen. One of my favourite Michael moments.
Doesn't being a "bad ass" denote a certain aptitude for violence. Look at historical women who can be said to have been bad asses; Cleopatra, Joan of Ark, Julie d'Aubigny. All had great passions, and used violence to fulfill those passions.
So everything is misogynistic. Thanks Cracked, thanks again.
+jackstorm777 Many things in society are inherently misogynistic. It's okay. Calm down. Take a breath. It's okay to admit that.
+jackstorm777 no, don't strawmann
The entire site has become so full of straight white male guilt, it gets very very old after a while. Unsubbed
+Nefepants thank you.
That straight white males aren't on the chopping block. Ensiferum Fan
I actually like how fairly comfortable this entire discussion is
Great episode Katie. Great job!!!
Michael's description of Gamergate was exactly how I felt about it when i was trying to wrap my head around it.
+Elastic Okami i dont who is who honestly in the gamergate stuff.
+shadowclock13
I'm in Gamergate. It's about ethics in gaming journalism. That's it. There are men and women who are part of the GG movement. A bunch of gamers got together and said they were sick and tired of Journalists abusing their audiences, and they were sick of being lied to by journalists who were in bed with game devs, writing good articles about their games for sexual favors.
Its quite simple, really.
+shadowclock13 Eh. I wouldn't get into it. Both sides can be biased. Plus, it could give you quite the shitstorm. Best leave it alone.
+Elastic Okami Something about one biased journalist a few years ago. If someone brings it up is is usually to make generalisations of either feminists or male gamers.
plainlake i did some research on it and it all boils down to corruption and cronyism in gaming journalism. but shit just got out of hand and the original cause more or less got lost in the noise.
Oh, Cracked, what have you done? At least I know better than to scroll down and read the comments for this one. And hey, I'm kind of glad you don't give a shit about offending the MRA's of CZcams.
+Leedark3 Yeah, human rights movements are fucking terrible aren't they? So damaging to the opposite sex they supposedly support!
w-wait that would mean...Nah, my beloved feminism can't do bad things for men. I'll just ignore all those inconvenient realities that run contrary to the message feminism is just for equality. >.>
I love 6:49 where Katie's just looking at Daniel like "Alright, I have a new respect for you right now." XD
I never get tired of this video.
Put your hands together and bow everybody, it's a misrepresentation of Japanese culture!
Animaniacs couldn't get everything right apparently.
Also, Michael waving at the end was hilarious.
Gah...I'm not handling this feminism well. Of course the female in the group is the go-to feminist. Can't Katy just be a cool nerd girl? And YOU CRITICIZE KILL FUCKING BILL FOR NOT BEING FEMINIST ENOUGH!?!?!?
First of all, movies have no obligation to enact social equality, whatever your vision of that may be. Movies only have an obligation to tell entertaining stories. No agendas, just stories. Don't criticize a movie just because it doesn't fit your political agenda.
Second, Beatrix Kiddo kicked ass...just like any male character would. She was already a kickass assassin BEFORE BEING SHOT IN THE HEAD. Being shot in the head only made her go against the Vipers and seek revenge from Bill. What's so sexist about Beatrix obsessing over revenge? Plenty of action movie male leads do that too, like Punisher.
Third, so women not showing up in movies is sexist. Women doing womanly things in movies is sexist (romcoms). And women doing manly things is sexist (Kill Bill). Hell, most of the important characters in Kill Bill were kickass females who didn't need no man, and you still complain?! WHAT THE HELL DO YOU WANT?!?!? Hey look, you even got a black female and Asian female too. That enough for your racial quota?!?!? That enough "representation" for ya!?!?
I got what I wanted from the movie, which was a kickass female lead doing kickass things and killing people like a kickass character does. She's fucking amazing, it's not disempowering by any means of the word, and it doesn't matter that it doesn't support the feminist movement, because that movement has lost its purpose, if it ever actually had one.
BTW, I couldn't sit through the 1st 2 minutes, so if the rest of the video makes my comment worthless, let me know.
Damn, I enjoy this channel and the After Hours episodes, but jeez, can you harp on about social justice and feminism sometimes. I couldn't even get through your Star Wars episode because you basically accused Lucas of being sexist and racist just because of a movie he made. As if just because he made a movie, that must be his ideal world.
+ShadeSlayer1911
I love Kill Bill, and I'm not really a huge "feminism go-getter," and even I could tell you Kill Bill isn't a good example of a "feminist" movie.
Sure, the lead lady (and all of the ladies) kick ass, but in the end it still revolves around a dude. Bill. The entire plot centers around him and his control and power, and nearly every decision every badass woman makes is because of him.
That doesn't make it a "bad movie" (it's a fantastic movie), but it's not a "feminist movie." And that's okay. Not everything has to further a feminist position.
Lynne the Trendy Tetraodontiforme So it's "unfeministic" just cuz it revolves around a dude?
Don't get me wrong, I don't think Kill Bill is a feminist film either, and I like it better that way, since movies that have an agenda to fill tend to suck big time. It's more the claim that it's disempowering to women or something like that that gets me.
Fucking Beatrix Kiddo is the most empowered woman ever. Okay, maybe not the most, but she is very high up there. Her biggest character flaw was that she was obsessed with revenge. But a perfect character is a boring character, so I accept this flaw of hers. It makes her and the movie more interesting, especially when she finally gets her revenge and it actually feels underwhelming.
My point is that feminists can never be satisfied. If a film doesn't have women charaters, it's sexist. If it does, but they act like stereotypical women, then it's sexist. If it does, and they act like male characters, then it's still sexist. THERE IS NO SATISFYING THEM!!!!!
+Lynne the Trendy Tetraodontiforme
The movie is suddenly not feminist because the male character plays a central role in the story by motivating all the female characters? Does that make Super Mario feminist because the female character motivates the entire rest of the cast and the plot itself?
Skyler Tesar
ShadeSlayer1911
Yeesh, you people are aggressive. I'm just pointing out that it's typically understood that a "feminist" character is typically one that is self-motivated as opposed to being motivated or focused on a dude. Because, you know, most chicks in movies are motivated by dudes.
They can work with dudes and fight against dudes, but their main drive, hypothetically, shouldn't be a dude.
And it's not all about being "empowered," it's just a matter of being self-sufficient and/or self-driven.
That's all. I'm not saying that's we should "make all movies" that way, and I'm not complaining about movies that aren't that way.
I'm just explaining how an actual "feminist" movie would work, and why a movie like Kill Bill, as awesome as it is, doesn't technically fall under that category.
Goddamn. Don't have to go on freakin' rants and debates about it. It's not a debatable issue. That's just what it is.
Lynne the Trendy Tetraodontiforme Okay, sorry I misunderstood your position.
Violence isn't masculine. They were master assassin's all of them. The extreme violence happens to every badass in cinema. No one just wakes up and kills scores of people without ever having some shit hit them.
yet but often times for men in movies that revenge trigger will be
their brother, daughter or wife being kidnapped or murdered, hell even a pet. There revenge comes at not their own personal pain, but for revenge with distance so the male lead is still strong cool and badass, like the original old boy is one of the few action movies where the revenge he gets is because of the torture he never faced personally. for the most part, the action hero male is meant to be cool, brave, and violent- or aren't GIVEN a detail backstory For why, they are allowed from the start to be this way.
meanwhile for female action badasses especially at the time this was talking about, they had to either go through extreme personal trauma (most of the time involving extreme sexual violence) or something that acts their motherhood. often times, and the writing is well. There is an element of making the male audience particularly to be scared, even in movies where you are meant to root for them- there is a huge disconnect from the way male badasses are written to be projection fantasy or incredibly admirable. (and i could get into the sexualization of female badasses, but this comment is already too long)
Violence isn't masculine i agree, it's just the portrayals we see in media reflect the opinions of biased People- a lot of action hero's for both genders ends up being harmful to both men and women, that men are inherently tied to violence, more prone and capable, and if and when they experienced trauma they can't not be "weak" about it and women are seen as never a real threat and their violence must be motivated from something related to their own personal suffering from being robbed a part of their womanhood. (going back to the theme of women can not become violent till they loose a part of womanhood, becoming less women there for becoming less safe)
i cant think of a movie where a lead female had the same violence and body count of a standard action thriller who wasn't victim of a violence assault
or a single male badass hero who was motivated by being raped by someone and getting revenge. I like can't actually think of a single movie with this plot, and i can think of a dozen for women.
OMG, you guys are just super-awesome! Please never stop.....:)
cracked used to so much better when they stayed out of the political and feminist stuff. this after hours was the worst yet
When did they got corrupted? where they always like this.
+Envy Noson no, and corrupted isn't the word I would use. but their articles and media started taking a more political and sjw slant probably around the middle of 2013. that said they also had a few, used to have alot of stuff that was about science and history that had no slant at all. sad part is that I don't even mind a liberal slant as I love Jon Stewart and bill Maher. just cracked isn't good at it.
'Why did they need to make this action movie character violent?' Really?
Soren, Soren, Soren. Getting mad and killing everyone with your period telekinesis is not a "masculine role". Killing (violently or magically) is not gendered behavior. Most men never kill anyone, or even get into more than MAYBE a couple of fights in their lives. To suggest that men can and should be violent in movies and that's okay is just as big a problem for men, as saying women can't or shouldn't be violent is a problem for women. Violence is a desperate measure for desperate times. You don't have to be a certain gender to be desperate, or to lash out, or to have poor impulse control or whatever.
Honestly this isn’t even a problem it’s something so small and doesn’t even matter, (for people who have too much time to complain about instead of real problems)
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide_statistics_by_gender
Men are actually liked more. Also, Wikipedia is a good source no matter what you were told. It gets fixed so often when people try to mess with it. People who basically mess work wikis as a hobby actually say that it doesn't take long for the misinformation to be fixed.
Let's not forget Legally Blonde. You have Elle who is incredibly brilliant but even she underestimates herself and yes she might have gone to Harvard originally for Warner to get him back but she ends up realizing just how much of a jerk he is and she is just fine without him. She ends up graduating as valedictorian and getting engaged to Emmett who really cares about her and Warner ends up without a fiancee or any honors. Elle was just such an inspiration cause not once did she stop being herself. She continued wearing her pink and carrying around Bruiser and she's incredibly smart. Not event the sexual harassment brought upon her by her professor could stop her even though she really wanted to call it quits she didn't.
OMG i think my IQ just droped 20 percent from the kill bill part.
what if the feminist messages are pretty dumb to begin with..?
Isn't the line from Mad Max: Fury Road "We are not things" rather than "We are not objects"?
Well to be fair, Beatrix aka Bride was already deadly, badass and powerful lady before the tragedy. That's pretty much why Bill wanted to stop her from leaving, she was his deadliest asset. What happened to her only made her more driven and powerful.
"Traditionally masculine traits"? I thought gender stereotyping was a bad thing.
The comments are still relatively civil. Weird.
+IsiahGames That's because Cracked actually doesn't know what feminism is really about. They're basically misogynists minus the misogyny.
I was expecting more anger over how they ignored Legally Blond.
phillyslasher
wait, do you think "white knight" means a guy that blindly follows feminism because he's afraid society will reject him?
*****
fine then "for acceptance". Is that true
phillyslasher ?
that entire song about Hello Nurse's personality and achievements ends with Yakko and Wakko getting struck by lightning after saying "If she's not everything we said, may lightning strike us dead."
+Vince Shadell But did they die?
GoErikTheRed no, but they aren't going to kill two main characters on-screen
Vince Shadell Idk. They could have performed CPR or something. (I get that's not how it works, but the kids won't)
GoErikTheRed After the two say "may lightning strike us dead", the two are hit by a bolt of lightning and a cloud of smoke clears, showing Hello Nurse holding a bandaged up Wakko and Yakko in her arms. you can see it for yourself. the song's called "Hello Nurse." you could easily find it on youtube.
love these discussions want to have these talks and these friends