Why Poland Switched to this Infantry Fighting Vehicle
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- čas přidán 13. 04. 2023
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Poland is making huge strides towards accomplishing their goal of becoming the largest land force in Europe by signing a framework agreement to produce nearly 1,400 Borsuk Infantry Fight Vehicles. The development of this new armored vehicle tracks a unique time in Poland's history where they have rapidly upscaled their defense manufacturing capability and shows how their nation is capable of creating their own homegrown advanced defense equipment.
Poland’s President recently signed into law a bill that increases defense spending to 3% or possibly even up to 4% of GDP going forward. It will more than double the number of troops serving in the Polish Armed Forces, up to 300,000 and those new soldiers will need wheels to ride in. That's where the Borsuk comes into play.
Edited By: Michael Michaelides
Written by Chris Cappy & Josh Simpson
Task & Purpose is a military news and culture oriented channel. We want to foster discussion about the defense industry.
#POLAND #WAR #EXPLORE
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Are amphibious capabilities necessary? You've obviously never played the eastern Europe map in war thunder. Real talk, polish bridge layers are on MT-LB chassis, and the bridge they carry is smaller than the ones our M-60 and M-1 chassis can carry. They also don't have as many bridge layers as us, which makes it a more valuable resource that can't be spread too thin. It would be better to make vehicles that can ford or swim so that existing vehicles which can't, like trucks, can have the luxury of a bridge carrier to lay them a path over a water obstacle.
Dude ur map of the north european plains is just very incorect, ist way smaller. Czech republic for example is not a part of it, surrounded by mointains reaching out up to 1600 meters
You’re too boxy kurwa
Bad look on the Morgan & Morgan sponsorship. Feels slimey.
Spare parts are (Verschleiss - Teil) in German, im doing my part.
Hope Poland gets everything they need. Love from the US and SK.
US and SK? Like, you’re from the U.S but live in SK
@@andrewrogers3067 nah. I'm a dual citizen. I hold both US and SK citizenship.
Love back to you too!
@QUAD Updates Saskatchewan lol
YOU hope Poland gets everything they want/need.
Somehow I think central, western and nearly all of Eastern Europe WANT this exactly the same as you!
Poland was a powerful, powerful nation back in the Middle Ages, then they became a rugby ball for many nations to play with for a few hundred years… they all loved rolling their troops over Polish land & fighting their wars off their own soil on Polish territory.
We all see that Poland is in a crazy important geographical position.
They have been fantastic throughout their ongoing support for Ukraine over the last 15 months.👏👏👏👏👏👏
Now, time for Poland to solidify & bring together ALL their materiel procurement projects to guarantee their own security.
They will be an immovable object in the east of Europe… as long as things stay conventional!
Poland just wants to make sure history doesn't repeat itself 💪🇵🇱
Poland just wants to see russians suffer
ah yes bad germany has plans to attack again
We just want to repeat the year 1610*
true
Yes, write it 100 times again in other comment sections
Respect to Poland.
From Ireland.
Ireland is an island where are small mountains, swamps and rivers. When I talked to Irish soldiers, they said Ireland dont need heavy tanks or other heavy equipment, but light and mobile. And they also talked about the BMP1. they said they want the BMP1
@@TheVirtualny Ireland doesn't need any of that. It's a small island next to a larger allied Island with a big military.
@@TheVirtualny
"When I talked to Irish soldiers, they said Ireland dont need heavy tanks or other heavy equipment, but light and mobile"?
That is objectively true. Anyone trying to drive an MBT across the Irish midlands would have to bail-out as it sank into the bog, even if driven on a road.
"And they also talked about the BMP1. they said they want the BMP1"?
This claim can only be described as marsh gas.
The Irish Army has precisely ZERO interest in acquiring the BMP-1, mainly because it is an obsolete death trap.
Weapon/ammunition incompatibility with current Irish in-service weaponry is a further reason why Ireland will not be buying any of the BMP/BMD vehicles.
Lastly, Soviet/Russian quality control is another reason why no-one in the Irish Defence Forces, or our Department of Defence, would be bothered with any of the BMP/BMD vehicles.
@@roseforeuropa
"It's a small island next to a larger allied Island with a big military"?
I have NO idea where that claim comes from, but far from reality is the best guess.
Ireland is NOT allied to any country, and is very definitely NOT allied to the larger island to our east.
Mainly because we had to fight that same "...larger island to our east..." for about 570 years before they understood that we were not interested in being ruled by them.
Ireland does need to dramatically increase its defence spending, if it wants its current posture of military nonalignment to be taken seriously.
A primary air-surveillance radar is in the pipeline, while defence spending is due to ramp up by at least 50%. Far more is needed if we are to maintain our current posture.
The other option is for Ireland to get on board the developing EU movement towards an independent European military capability.
We cannot depend on Britain, mainly because most of our problems have, historically, come from there....
Respect to ireland
From canadaland
I would say that one of the best commentaries I've heared about the amphibious capability came from some of the Polish officers - they were saying that we could discuss whether its needed or not and whether the vehicle would be better without it or not, but in the end one of the biggest advantages is that the potential enemy has to take into account that capability. This means the enemy has to spend resources to secure water obstacles and always plan their operations with the possibility of mechanised infantry attacking/counter-attacking through those obstacles.
That seems like a best uptake - you don't need to use it, but having anything else than light infantry being able to mess up your lines crossing river or lake is a thing to keep in mind if you dare to attack. Mechanized infantry is not something you can just take on if it just pops up behind your lines.
There's also the potential, as a member of NATO, that Polish forces could fight the Russians in places like Ukraine or the Baltics where there are more water obstacles. But the main reason might be to make the vehicle more marketable to foreign customers who would want that requirement. Sacrificing features and performance to hit a price point has historically been a bad bet for foreign weapon sales. Customers feel that downgraded export versions aren't worth the cost savings, partly because as you suggest, potential adversaries look closely at their capabilities and deterrence may suffer if they aren't sufficiently impressed.
Great answer!
A dumb commander assumes their enemy only has certain capabilities.
A cautious commander actually looks at the enemy to determine their capabilities.
Causing a cautious commander to spend more resources and time in order to defend a potential flank point buys you time.
Exploiting a weakness that a dumb commander didn't account for can result in a swift victory.
It's better to have the ability than not.
THe amphibious capacity may also play into possible export
As a Brit. I work with lots of Polish and other Eastern European lads and have done so for a large part of my working life. Our historys are linked forever and we will forever be allied to Poland especially. It's very good to see Poland and it's government taking re-arming and updating seriously. It's a shame the UK government aren't taking scaling up our own military as seriously. We have no idea which way the conflict in Eastern Europe will go in the near future. All Western nations should be gearing up and taking this very very seriously.
You sold the Polish down sh*t creek without a paddle in WW2, and now you're setting them up and are going to use them fodder for the new up coming meat grinder to "weaken" Russia, just like has already been done with 100's of 1,000's of Ukrainian men ages 16 - 60 in just the past 14 months...
Couldn't agree more.
You're lucky your neighbor isn't a nation of monsters. Britain is safe. Russia will not dare to attack a superpower with nuclear weapons.
Thank you for writing this. It's very kind. I think a lot of Poles (including myself) think very highly of the UK and Brits as a whole and as you said, our histories will forever be linked and we have a lot to thank you for. We will stand there with you, shoulder to shoulder.
As a Brit I completely agree we have become so weak and reley so heavily on imports that domestic manufacturing is non existent - we should have started scaling up our forces but think we politically rightly or wrongly have decided just to write cheques to get ukr to fight the threat for us - if in the next 12 months the war is still raging I think we will see military budget increases
I love Poland, they are the definition of when the going gets tough, the tough get going. Much love from the USA
Good point, love from Poland ✌️
Poles sold their freedome for 500 pln (about 120 USD) and a month. Who are you kidding
@@babiskissanis2367 really precise information, thanks for deep analysis our situation.
@Rafał Drzewiecki am I wrong? For the last 8 years Poland has been sliding further and further backwards and nobody cares as long as you get your 500+
@@babiskissanis2367 Well well well...
I am suitably impressed, go Poland. With love from the US
🤮
@@commandantee wake up we have an enemy at the gates get out of your basement and fight for the wagner
If you missed it a sad Russian sympathizer said something stupid and pissed off when called out
the main reason why Borsuk is an amphibious vehicle is that it will operate in the Warmia and Mazury region (bordering Russia) where there are more than 3,000 lakes
Głównym powodem dlaczego Borsuk jest pojazdem amfibijnym jest konkurencja z innych krajów. Gdyby Borsuk nie musiał pływać to by nie powstał bo lobby zagraniczne z pewnością przeforsowałoby swoją konstrukcję...
You can drive around lakes... enemies hate this trick...
@@randyraudi7725 take a look at polish map and check where and how wide rivers and big lakes we got. we must have amphibious vehicles.
@@randyraudi7725 That's where the minefields are.
On West Poland is also many lakes
15:56 FUN FACT: The Warner brothers (Albert, Sam, Harry) were born in the same province Mazowieckie (in Krasnosielc) where wb electronics is located (Ożarów Mazowiecki).
Admiral Hyman Rickover was also born in Poland
Based Poland. Big respect to our best neighbors!
Jeszcze Polska nie zginęła! 🇺🇦🤝🇵🇱
czemu calego hymnu nie napisałes LOL
All the best to Ukraine, too!
@@bambokoksislime7033 Bo to nie jest hymn tylko zawołanie narodowe. Zawołanie narodowe które istniało przed powstaniem Mazurka Dąbrowskiego. Z samego faktu że zechciało ci się dotknąć klawiatury i napisać te wymioty można poznać po tobie że funkcjonujesz na zasadzie "chuja się znam ale napiszę".
No i jeszcze na końcu to nie modne "LOL" Czemu po angielsku to napisałeś?...LOL
Ukrainian scum ps US TRUE AMERICANS HATE YOUR LEADER AND HATE YOUR WAR. PREPARE TO LOSE SCUM
Chwała Ukrainie!!!
Greetings from Spain . Poland is certainly doing its homework on defence. Let's hope that the European Defence Agency with the PESCO programmes will achieve developments that will be used by all European armies.
Philippines need this IFV both in military and calamity use. We are sorrounded by waters (rivers / seas) and during typhoon season we can use this to rescue and give aides support to affected areas. We have a lot of rebel, islamic militants and terrorist groups for decades with this IFV our military will have a huge advantage over them.
You are welcome. If you are interested we would be able to at least send an offer. 🙂 But badger is not very well suited to be used on sea. It is designed for rivers with very small waves. For rescue mission it's not very practical because the armour is heavy and in such condition its just a dead weight. Specialised equipment would be able to carry more useful load.
Phillippines too poor. Just stick to Toyota trucks riding on boats to do river crossings.
@@roseforeuropa 🤣😂🤣.....you might be surprise who is the richest country in the world right now 🤣😂🤣.... Watch Marcos Gold on youtube. Right now President Bongbong Marcos and the Philippine Government is trying to get just the interest of the 170 plus bank accounts by former President Ferdinand Marcos Sr. (Former richest man in world history, a Quadtrillionaire) Most of it he acquired before he became the President of the Philippines. All of the 170 plus bank account in different countries are in hundred of billions, trillions and Quad trillions of dollars amount. It's 1 Million plus metric tons of gold bars, just imagine it's 20 to 30yrs. Plus bank interest. 200k metric tons of gold bars are in U.S. government custody. When the Philippine Government / Marcos Family decided to pull it out will cause the real total collapse right now of the U.S. economy. The Philippines has 400k metric tons of gold that is well kept safe in central bank of the Philippines ( The highest gold bars country reserved in the world right now). Marcos Bank Account in Brussels Belgium has a 980 plus billion dollars, Switzerland more than 3 Trillion dollars, Czech Republic are in Quad trillions of dollar and that is just 3 out of 170 plus accounts. All have public legal documents to prove it. It has signatures over printed name on some of it by Queen Elizabeth 2 of UK and the President of U.S. at that time as witness. Marcos gold was used by World Bank to grant finance to many countries who were greatly affected by WW2 to recover including your own country. After 9 11 bombing former President Bush was asked by a reporter on who he thinks is the richest country in the world right now...he simply smiled and said the Philippines...🤣😂🤣......Marcos Gold right now is called the Maharlika Funds being used by the Philippines for its thousands of national projects including 1million free houses every year to poor and middle class families, military modernization program, mega skyways projects, airports just to name a few ......The fact that Philippine Government can buy destroyer, frigates, corvettes, submarines, MRF, light track and wheeled tanks (Ascod 2, Pandur 2), APC Guarani, attack and heavy lift helicopters (T129, Chinook, Mil17 etc.) just to name a few that are way more expensive than this one, it only means we can afford this one easily if our government really decided on having this one...🤣😂🤣
Poland, sadly, isn't interested in exporting this.
@@piotrd.4850That's a shame.
I’ve always had mad respect for the Polish. Salute to you all from the US!
Bless you Brother ❤
prolly coz you dont know even a bit of polack's history ;)
@@andr27 someone is stuck in the 1100s
Thank You and (personally) I've always had an enormous interest for the US - your History, your "way of doing politics" - hell! - not to mention your impressive countryside's beauty. I'm not saying I always like everything about it, but it is fascinating to see how you openly and fiercely (and PUBLICLY) discuss your politics and I've been always impressed by the fact, that IDEOLOGY still means an enormous lot in your political life. In most European countries, politicians are simply "professionals of their own trade" and - "LEFT" or "RIGHT" - do not give a damn, often even changing parties mid-term, which in the UK or even US would be unthinkable. The only countries who still remember what TRULY COMMUNISM WAS are those in Central/Eastern Europe (just like us). Most of people in Europe think you are "full of nuts", because you have so many people defending the right to bear arms. Then I "dug deeper" and started noticing that "pro-gun ownership"-activists are not simply on the payroll of some giant "defense industries" (as many media say), but because they FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT BEARING ARMS IS (quote): "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." (2nd Amendment). In other words - YOU are the only country I know that gives the citizen the legal right to defend himself (weapons at hand) not just against "petty crime", but also (and foremost) AGAINST CORRUPTION AND ABUSE FROM LOCAL OFFICIALS - often appointed by the state's administration. That is something I learned only later on and it is only one among a thousand examples, that your Country surprised me with. PS. Anyway! Salutes and Best Regards from Poland.
@@2serveand2protect You are so correct that I had to comment. I was just reading these comments above, with translation of course, and what you just said was perfect. Thank you for not buying in to the stereotype the mainstream media wants everyone, including foreign countries and friends to believe. The right to bear and is to protect everyone, and both parties, it prevents Wolf Pack mentality from taking hold of the country, and protects not only the strong, but the weak too. I wish you nothing but the best and prosperity for your family. Take care and God bless.
I live in Stalowa Wola where Borsuk is tested(not only Borsuk) and manufactured and i have to say that it's amazing to see my little city producing such a great vehicles such as Borsuk or KRAB
fell free to ask questions
@@K_cz_PL How big will be the expansion of Stalowa Wola factory in the near future?
@@TrueOnly well they have been given like 800m dollars for free by the government for expansion of production capabilities
@@K_cz_PL
Feel free ……
Thank you
Important part about borsuk is: it's very well protected from the bottom
It was blown up during test MANY times. Then modified to make sure nothing bad happens to people. So when they get on top of a mine crew is safe. Borsuk went trough many iterations to custom craft this vehicle for our specifications
Much respect 🇳🇱🤝🏻🇵🇱
The Borsuk was designed to to be used in North-East Poland where there are thousands of small lakes and rivers.
True dat. If You want Your mobile infrantry to retain the 'mobile' part of the equation in Poland - You WILL need to be able to cross water obstacles.
It's a great example of a country building a defence system tailored to specific circumstances.If any other country will find it usefull - great, we will make and selll more of them. If not - no matter, it will still be cheaper than imported gear and less dependent on foreign contracts. Inhouse production is the way to go.
Unfortunelly, no one can predict which rivers 'Borsuk' (pron.: 'Borsook') will have to cross... Fortunelly 'Borsuk' is a good swimmer.
@@dagome_prime Oooh but Yes we can. We are all looking at that little shitshard of a territory callled Kaliningrad - that never should have been there... but i guess every empire likes naval ports that don't freeze over in the winter.....
Yup, especially with the Suwałki Corridor right there. In case the Russians try to cut off our Baltic allies as the rest of NATO gets its act together. Mobility is the key, and the Poles have chosen wisely.
@@grandwizardteo Purely theoretically of course.
Correction: Poland absolutely had a major industrial base to create armored fighting vehicles. It produced T-34s, T-55s and T-72s by the thousands, 2S1 Gvozdika (in the Huta Stalowa Wola which Now makes Borsuk ifv) and SKOT and MTLB apcs (also in HSW) . The main factory was Bumar Łabędy. In fact many of the T-72 Americans fought in Desert Storm were Polish made. But the 90s hit the Eastern Europe hard, so the capability diminished, only to renew it with production of Patria AMV production and Krab howitzers in early to late 2000s.
Because we manufactured EXPORT versions which were like a retarded brothers of ussr-versions of T-72s :/ We had no chances in competition on international markets. PL could not offer stuff that would be better offer than ruZZian one.
😀😀💪💪💪✌️🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱👏👏👏
Actually, no. Iraq had polish T-55s.
@@piotrd.4850 Learn to read lol
@@phunkracy it’s not “most” of the T-72’s
From what I could find, the USSR proper met or exceeded the polish delivery of T-72’s
The Poles then delivered T-72m1 kits to be constructed in Iran to make up to the losses they suffered with the war Iran had with Iraq. But it wasn’t a significant amount, and only a handful were actually put together before the war kicked off
The Chinese actually sold more Type 59’s and Type 69’s then Poland delivered T-72’s combined
Stay strong Poland! 🇵🇱🇺🇦
Same as civil kids and womens in Wołyń in 1943y?
@@ScarllordTheThirdLoyalGreedy wdym
@@ScarllordTheThirdLoyalGreedy ruski troll got his paycheck today, very nice XD
🇵🇱🇵🇱💪💪💪❤️❤️❤️
Love Polish and Ukrainian people 🇵🇱 🇺🇦 ❤
As long as we stay strong in Faith in One God, He will keep us strong and protect us. Poland, with its history, is a living proof. 🇮🇷 ❤🇵🇱 🇺🇦
Dzięki ♡
@@szczepan6058
I hope for better relations with Iran, we have some historical kindness going on, and Poles are always on the side of freedom and peace loving people of Iran
Albo jedni albo drudzy..... musisz wybrać.
Fun fact: Borsuk has better protection against mines than most tanks.
Than m1a2 abrams sepv3
@@titan_fist1953 yes, actually, and all Leos and Challenger 2. They only vehicle about as mine- and IED resistant tank is the Merkava - which had to be this resistant because of the troop compartment.
@@titan_fist1953Leo2A5 , K2 i nagi Abrams
@@kastork82 Israel should send merkava to Ukraine, Russia will certainly use a lot of mines
@@mikefallwell1301 Merkava isn't well suited to the European operating environment. It's quite tall with more evenly distributed armor to protect against RPG hits from the side, it's not really designed for tank on tank fighting, it's designed for urban combat against RPG wielding terrorists.
Love what Poland is doing. They’re showing the world that they will never again find themselves in a situation where they can’t get defend their country and their people. Or at the very least put up one hell of a fight. Hopefully more countries in Europe start to follow suit. Not for the purpose of going to war but for the purpose of deference.
We had huge army expansion program in Poland that started in 1938 and was intended to bring new capabilities by 1940
@@hphp31416 oh boy 😅
Yeah, but on the flipside the spending is so extreme that we might end up with runaway inflation and no money to actually turn the raw metal into atual capabilities.
Buying lots of cool equipment is one thing, but you gotta pay to have it integrated into units, and pay soldiers to train on it so that they know how to use it.
Spen too much and you take away the base of the pyramid which supports the military.
Last loosing cost was 6,5 million deads... It was more than 20% of Polish population.
@@PR_nick Yeah and my point is that you won't win a war if you run out of money midway through building an army that can actually do the war-winning.
Militaries stand on top of a vast pyramid that sustains them ; Trash this pyramid with overspending, and all a potential enemy has to do is wait until it collapses, then roll in.
My unit ran M113's with the original gas engines in lakes. 3 to 4 hours to fully prep and verify all seals, plugs and seals were ready. These are returned from Vietnam junk piles with FOR TRAINING USE ONLY welded into the bow armor. They actual floated and got us across the lake.
This Borsuk looks like a good build for a universal platform.
I love poland they have been through so much they deserve the best!
szczególnie na njlepszea pustynie atomową w dziejach swiata - Jankee go home
@@mirdallke2 znowu ruski troll
@@mirdallke2 pustynię atomową to ty masz w swoim łbie
@@mirdallke2masz rację, wybudują nam elektrownie atomowa taką samą jak w Fukushimie "sprzedadzą" okręty żeby tego bronić a po 10 latach będzie "awaria" i będą nam sprzedawać pomoc..
@@mirdallke2 moskovian-bot ignore
most impressive thing in Borsuk is his mine protection - its on pair with K2 and Ambrams tanks!
For a VCI.
If you drive North of Warsaw, towards the Russian/Kaliningrad border, there are a lot of lakes, so amphib armour makes sense there.
5:45 fun fact: im working in "Huta Stalowa Wola" as a electrician and can admit, borsuk's are magnificent and loud. Plus section for constructing them is huge.
Poland can’t do anything wrong in my book, they are amazing people and an amazing country 🫡
🤣
Thanks, we are only occupy by alien goverment USA, Deutsch, ect.. that is our biggest problem.
@@Rzut-Oka ale się totalnie obsrałeś gówienkiem
@@jaukasz4291 nawet nie rozumiesz co napisałem, jesteś taki biedny
@@Rzut-Oka the US help you lmao, and you can ask them to leave like france did
Congratulations to Poland, amazing IFV
As for the Borsuk being boxy and the armor angles relative to armor, the main reason why the front of the vehicle looks the way it looks is the amphibious capability - if it has to swim like a boat, it has to look like a boat.
But when it comes to penetration it's not that simple - Russian 30mm armor piercing rounds are designed with angled armor in mind, so they're optimized to penetrate angled plates which means they perform slightly worse against more less vertical plates. If you want to reed more about it, I recomment finding some tweets by Piotr Zbies (the blogger you've mentioned), he's a very good expert in all things armor and armor penetration.
oh boy russia has space magic that defies the laws of physics. No they arent better on sloped and worse and boxes unless
I hope Poland will do there best to figure those problems it out.😊 Best from South Korea🇰🇷
In Poland there is a lot of small rivers and really a lot of small lakes (especially in north east part of Poland) so giving Borsuk a way to go throu it is great idea.
As for amphibious capabilities - just look on the map how northern Poland near Kaliningrad and Lithuania looks like, crossing without building a bridge can give you some advantages
Yeah, meanign that the question of whether crossing a river under fire is a good idea really doesn't matter. To get from point A to point B in northern Poland, you're going to cross plenty of rivers while *not* under fire, just to get to the battlefield on time.
Plus most important reason - you can have every IFV being Borsuk without breaking European laws. Just add "it need swimming" and no other IFV than Borsuk will appear in searching results
@@ladrok97 just out of curiosity what are the laws your referring to?
@@williamrobinson5859 I'm not sure if it still in military contracts, but in general in Europe government bodies (i.e. most local authorities, universities) need to create public tenders, which takes time and if rules aren't "crystal clear" enough, then loser can go to court which prolongs it even further.
It can be so absurd that i.e. university is better to go with public tender and pay 5x price on coffee than to explain why they bought coffee directly from shop.
So in this situation you go with "swimming" and "IFV". In this way you get Borsuk, BMP-x and maybe Korean IFV. Of course Russia won't sell it and Korean one (but it was tested heavy AS21) in Poland recently had malfunctions... when it was merely riding on test ground, so easy to dismiss it in such public tender. In this way neither Germany, France, Finland can go to European court and say "we lost, cancel this thing"
But maybe it's not the case any longer. I don't know, I heard it is a benefit of doing something which whole NATO isn't, maybe it was true in 2014, but now isn't, maybe still is the case. Either way is nice to have those bonus points.
@@ladrok97 AS21 can't swim.
As I got to know from one of polish military analyst, he says they had hard time discussing amphibious capabilities. But finally they got to point that they will lose to much time on new R&D refits, buying something from market to expensive and also they are pot that particularly better. So they decided to make those 1400pcs Borsuks, cuz they are good and are polish with most of money will stay anyway in the economy. As the army will grew even bigger they also will create new heavy IFV in cooperation with S.Korea
NOT only that. And not that exactly. You know - even if they won't be used as amphibious - enemy would HAVE to always consider this in their plans. And this is a limiting factor for enemy that will have less freedom in deployment of their forces. Jaroslaw Wolski - probably you're talking about him - said this some time ago in his YT channel or TT. That he talked with commanders and they told him exactly this. And this is logical. Because enemy would have to always allocate some forces in some areas where normally they could just ignore them. AND this means the DILUTION of enemy forces, attention etc.
And in case of heavy IFV the latest news say that it will be developed with ROK using the K9 hull - because the mass will be ca. 40-45 tonnes. So it WILL be heavy IFV. K9 hull already sustains such mass, has proper engine etc. So it will only be slight re-design. Power pack, transmission, steel optimalization etc - is already done.
@@trollfake9578
Simple and efficiency.
Perfect.
Now, i wait step of MBT😅 (Leopard 2, K2 black panther, etr)
Good for you Poland... never again a victim. From a NATO ally in the UK
Borsuk looks good and the fact that it has a great mine protection makes it awesome!
Thanks for info.
FYI: in Polish letters are pronounced differently, rather similar to German than to English, so 'W' is pronounced as English 'V', 'J' as 'Y', and SZ & CZ as SH & CH. For instant Warszawa (Warsaw in English) is pronounced rather like Varshava and Stalowa Wola as Stalova Vola. Anyway , you did quite good with Polish names :-)
Huta Stałoławoła...
I would doubt about this pronunciation...
😅
@@BlackAlpha1 Huta Stalowa Wola
@@wnukowski1 wiem przecież 🤣
Being from Poland - NOT having amphibious capabilities would be INSANE.
Wow. A Great presentation. Poland probably has institutional memory of what happened a while back when the USSR squeezed them from the east and Germany squeeze them on the west. They probably don't have to worry about Germany anymore but there is what's leftover from the USSR on their eastern flank that probably rightly alarms them. Good to see that there are some good nations willing to defend themselves.
Germans always will be a threat to us, nowadays not military but economically, they want to control or destroy our industry. Germans don't want any competitors...
If you do not feed yours army, sooner or later you will feed yours enemy's army.
brgds from Poland
If not for the US, Germany and Russia would have attacked Poland again. Nothing has changed on this subject. The fact that Poland and Germany are in NATO and the European Union does not mean that we are friends. Germany is the enemy of Poland.
Greetings from Poland :) I wish we wouldn't have to worry about Germany but the truth is we do have to worry about them always. Germany is one of the reasons why Russia had so much influence over Europe. Germany and Russia want to deal together like before. They always wanted power but powerful should be only those who believe in justice and freedom for all the mankind. Germany and Russia don't want strong Poland because it's against their plans to make Federal Europe with the German government and Russia wants that too because once they will make a hegemony in Europe together with Germany, then the Russians will take care of Germany to make EURASIA... or better to put it in perspective - EURUSSIA
You are correct. However the squeezing you refer to goes back at least 700 years.
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You know how the media will say this war actually started in 2014? The Baltics, Poland,and Ukraine would likely go for 1214 as more historically accurate.
The first victim of war are bridges. Borsuk can use animal crossings present along the newly built water structures in Poland, so in a nutshell Borsuk can use as an advantage water obstacles.
Very well done! Great analysis, much appreciated, especially given the language barrier. Cheers from Warsaw!
Peace from Poland! And big thank you for making a great job with your channel - lots of info and nicely packed without bs.
Borsuk is not on K9 chassis but UMPG chassis fully developed in Poland.
The heavy IFV will be based on K9 (modified) chassy'.
Do not mistake with previous UMPG chasee from OBRUM.
@@radosaworman7628 it is still UMPG but more developed. After all OBRUM is still part of PGZ.
@@SULFURIOUS name is the same but it's not the same platform. this one was exlusively done by HSW
@@radosaworman7628 it is interesting then and confusing. Why PGZ, and above all OBRUM, allowed to use their product name for different product?
I heard that choosing amphibious option meant more tactical and operational flexibility. When You have an option to cross a river whenever You want, it creates additional headache for Your enemy. Second thing is that lighter IFV can go into more places than a heavy one, cross local-small bridges, go through more muddy terrain etc.
thats isnt 100% how it works
heavier doesnt mean worse in mud
@@n3v3rforgott3n9 ground pressure says otherwise
the biggest thing with it was the fact that the northern-east part of Poland is patched with lakes and rivers. Amphibious vehicle fit in there great. Especially that it has quite good armor as for the light vehicle
@@TinyBearTim thats why we have these things called....wait for it now....I know you aren't too smart, thats why we have...
TREADS, they spread ground pressure even for heavy ass vehicles
Even cappies videos have shown that there are heavier vehicles that do better than light vehicles in mud
@@nicholasbrown668 ok.
Regarding the need for fording water, I live in Poland and can say from the ground that there are rivers and lakes everywhere, especially in the areas close to Kaliningrad and Belarus. Having an amphibious ability, I imagine, would be a useful advantage in those areas of operation, even with a trade-off in protection. Just gives the enemy something more to worry about.
Well done. This is probably one of the best videos summarising the history and major facts about this vehicle. 👍
It's worth mention that entire design process including building some working prototypes took only 28 mln USD which is pennies compared how much other countries payed for their IFV programs
True. It's also pennies even for Polish standards - circa 250 mln zlotys (circa 58 mln USD) to develop Borsuk is a funny number. For comparison, constructing 15-20 kilometers of highway (+ support infrastructure) can cost as much as 1.5 billion zlotys.
With Russia and Belarus as neighbours,i can understand it completely
There is a fundamental difference between Russia and Belarus. Namely, Russia is inhabited by Russians who generally like the politics of their tsar, Putin. On the other hand, Belarus is inhabited by Belarusians who need to be forced into the policies led by their local dictator. The result may seem identical - a hostile neighboring country. However, the perspective is entirely different. Russians are waiting for an opportunity to invade. Belarusians, on the other hand, are waiting for a chance to put Lukashenko in prison.
@@marcinzietek5058 Generally like? Why were there hundreds of thousands fleeing the country, and with constant protests and anti-war politics?
@@marcinzietek5058 👍👍👍
16:09 pushmaster sounds like a fancy gamer keyboard
ALSO all my respect for what Poland already has done and will be doing, a real example for Europe
God bless Poland 🙏🙏🙏
I was riding my bike long distance once, and encountered a badger on the road. The damn thing just looked at me and dared me to come closer. They are BADASS
Borsuk = Badger :)
We also have Rosomak = Wolverine which can also swim thru rivers.
through?!
sru!
I like "thru". Although currently still just an alternative spelling of "through" even in the US, I think it's one of the few simplified spellings likely to take off in global English.
Lots of the other proposed spelling reforms won't, because they are in practice quite helpful to English learners for distinguishing between different meanings.
Take flu, flew, flue for example.
@@ianstobie I agree with you. I use thru as well. Also for some reason I have no idea of I’ve always spelled “night” as “nite”.
@@ianstobie Agree, i do ofren use such "shortcuts" in casual discussion. My first post was a follow up to an old, Polish TV commercial, where cartoon cat tries to teach a dog how to spell and write "through" - dog said "sruu"
It was quite funny tho :D
"through - sruuu, through - sruuuu!"
@@papaversomniferum2365 To pies nauczał angielskiego, a kot mówił "sruu" ;)
Everyone sleeps on Poland because they were part of the Iron Curtain and got rolled early in WW2. But if you read WW2 History, you'll find some of the bravest (and bat-shit craziest) things done by Poles.
We really need to have a revival of recognising how Bad-ass the Poles are.
considering Polish economic growth after 1989 is second only to Chinese I dare say folks sleep on Poland at their peril
❤I enjoy watching your videos! They really help put our history & current events in perspective so they're easily understood. I've just subscribed, Thanks so much for sharing them!!😊
I really like your presentation of what ever you are reviewing you actually bring to screen you show the good and the bad of what you are talking about.
This is the longest stretch of Polish independence in a few hundred years, that’s why. Thirty four years of being able to work for themselves in an open market instead of being choked out by the Soviets or Germans or Prussians and Russians and Austro-Hungarians etc. The other stretch of independence was after WWI and that was barely 22 years. And they still managed to push back the Bolsheviks all the way to Moscow!
You're not very smart.
Favorising state companies over private enterprises and huge spendings on the army have drown economy is an exact repeat of mistakes from 1930s. My estimate is by 10 years from now, there will be no funds to maintain these vehicles.
You can't raise taxes indifinetly. Small and mid business are already dying rapidly all over the country. What will indepence be good for, if the state will bring down people's life quality, and in many cases make them unable to even survive?
Piotr - hmmm… interesting bit of anger from you.
Agreed that taxes have a limit. However, many, not all, but a LOT, of the Polish military procurement is being done in a way where large %ages of construction/manufacture are being completed in country. Delivering jobs now (design &manufacture) & ongoing (R&M, export sales, future upgrades etc) as well as the returning tax revenues, high quality employment, supporting/supplier businesses and so on.
Surely this is so much better than buying & having everything made overseas?
My country, Australia, is late to this party but is starting to make some headway. Like with the Bushmasters made in Bendigo that Ukraine rate so highly, but also hopefully the kick ass Hawkei vehicles made in same.
Now also the low radar signature, deadly, lightweight CARDBOARD drones that have started being sent from Queensland.
Further Drone game changer.
So, I wonder why you are so against the qualitative & quantitative improvements coming in the Polish military especially when so many are home made, & made specifically to ruin the Russian Fascists day?
You ask what is Independence good for if quality of life is poor?
Personally, if I live in an independent country my people and I control our own destiny - this is never a perfect system, but it sure is the least worst one I have ever heard of.
Living somewhere like Belorussia, Chechnya etc means we rely on Putler feeling good towards us… or not… AND having a RUBBISH standard of living cos we just get scraps always. Always second to Big Brother.
Aaaaaand… most importantly we can’t vote or influence either our government (the ruler they want wins always bc they just fudge the results to maintain stability normally OR send in Russian troops if truly threatened) or - in any way AT ALL - impact the ReAL government in Moscow bc you don’t ever get a vote in another countries elections (which are just as rigged anyway). Not ever.
And in the end why would Putler focus on a second string country (improving living standards) that is under control when focus is needed at home.
Summary - home grown military material should be good for the country if done vaguely well.
Not being independent by having a larger country control your direction is not good for pretty much any reason you care to think of.
Personally hope that Poland stays strong, grows stronger both economically & militarily as civil society will only benefit from these changes.
Please have another think Piotr
@@lachlanwelsh5880 "So, I wonder why you are so against the qualitative & quantitative improvements coming in the Polish military especially when so many are home made, & made specifically to ruin the Russian Fascists day?"
because babcia i dziadek lesni maja dostac 30ta emeryture, co jest wazniejsze niz rozwoj kraju czy szkoly
@@piotrmalewski8178 What private companies capable of producing an IFV do we have?
Spot on. Love the Poles. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱
Such good delivery on these recent videos compared to the early days. Lots of good info too still and humour.
This is pretty cool to see, weaponised shipping container or not 😂. Your breakdowns on new military tech is always engaging to watch. Thanks for this 👍🏿
It feels like Japan and Poland are in a competition for who can armor up the fastest.
Japan politely refused Poland's declaration of war during WW2 and intelligence agencies continued to cooperate against USSR. Wonder what'll happen this time.
i can compete in who-hates-russia-more
Who can armor up and bankrupt the fastest. The costs of living are really becoming unbearable. Inflation is second highest in Europe, but the real pain is inflation of food prices.
10 years ago a loaf of bread was 2-3PLN. Now its 6-10PLN.
I earn 5k PLN net. 15-10 years ago, a guy earning as much didn't have to worry about anything and if already had a flat, could afford to buy a new car every 5 years. Now I barely manage to maintain my 20 years old car after paying other expenses. Everything went up several times just in the last 4 years. Especially food. I remember having full trolley for 200-250 PLN. Now 200 PLN is merely one bag of basic food products. Basically the same prices as in the UK, only you earn 3 times less. The only cheap thing is car insurance.
It's existential for both. If not they could be speaking Russian and/or Chinese in the future against their will
@@piotrmalewski8178 Well, Ukraine should help you polls with food security after the war is over, they definitely should, since you help them a lot in this war.
Cappy. One correction - we have mountains and lots of rivers. We have some natural protection but not much. If you want polish subtitles contact me. Greetings from Poland
Me meant not on the borders that actually matter, our mountains aren't going to help us defend against russia lol. We don't have much protection for invasion from the east (important now) and from the west which used to be important. The mountains protect us from the south but I don't think we have to be very concerned about Czechs or Slovaks invading us lol
@@januszkurahenowski2860 Slovaks invaded Poland in 1939…
I salute your pronunciation. You did a pretty good job at it.
Thank you for this. This was amazing!!
In addition to the Badger Borsuk, a new heavy infantry fighting vehicle is to be developed to work with Abrams tanks. It's supposed to have a Korean K9 chassis, maybe a 40mm gun
Very nice work by Poland. I'm impressed by the seriousness and effort they make to modernize their armed forces.
If you take into account that more lest 1/5 of Poland especially north east is covered by lakes the amphibious capabilities make absolutely perfect sense.
Sounds like they would need mosquito netting too... . 😮
@@maxjohnson1758 as much as any other army in the same location. Mosquitos are a plague over there especially in the summer months
You can get used to them
@czester9991 anyone that's ever been to masuria knows that "getting used" to the mosquitos is not an option 😂😂
It's worth mentioning that Polish army also have about 900 (in different versions) KTO Rosomak IFV (Wheeled Armored Personel Carrier Wolverine) which mostly is amphibious excluding variants like the desert version. It's built on license from Finish company Patria
I love all of yours videos about Poland and you pronunciation is surprisingly great! Take care 🖖🏼 🇵🇱🇵🇱
You know its deadly serious when Poland doesnt want to see a repeat of 1939, perhaps one day we will see Winged Hussars again
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if their new tank was codenamed the "Hussar"
@@scottdixon5776 they should do that
Check out the Divisional insignia of Poland's armoured units. It was even used in WW2.
@@aguywithahelmet In fact, they shall do that.
@@scottdixon5776well. Polish president called M1 abrams as a closest thing to winged hussar in modern battlefield couple years back. First foreshadowing of M1 purchase from a politician.
A minor mistake when it comes to working with the Koreans to produce Badger. The light floating platform is fully manufactured in Poland. The cooperation with Korea applies to the heavier, better armoured, non-floating version of the IFV, which will be based on the K9 SPG chassis.
New chassis on K9 components.
Regarding amphibious capabilities of Borsuk - it's designed for Suwałki Gap area which is full of lakes. It doesn't need to use this capability but the fact of having it complicates enemies planning a lot.
I visited Poland (Krakow) last winter. Good folks, amazing country. Much respect.
I swam the M113 in the early 1964 and 1965 when we first got them. I will never forget the sensation of driving into the river and the front of the vehicle going nose down. What a relief when you bob to the surface. The only time we ever had one sink is when someone forgot to install the rear drain plugs.
What happened when it sunk? Were you able to save the crew, I hope?
@@myguy5416 There was 2 occupants in the M113 and the driver and the Commander opened their hatches and swam out. I should mention that there was a cable attached to the APC and a tank retriever to pull the vehicle if trouble ensued.
@@johnholler3955 Oh that's great. Good to hear they survived. Thanks for the post.
We always a guy with mallet to cut cable so vehicle One didn't drag down vehicle Two.
It was fun to drive into lake...only did it once though on drivers course
Heard a fun rumor about amphibious capability. When Borsuk program started in last decade, polish law only allowed contract to be signed after fair competition was held. So amphibious capability was written into requirements to cut out all opponents (nobody had tracked IFV or wanted to make one). So Borsuk was only one left standing, foreign companies couldn't sue gov for this (although their lobbyists tried their hardest to kill Borsuk in the cradle, as it can be a competition in future; especially ZSSW-30 is something that makes them go crazy, as this one is not only intended for Borsuk, but also as replacment for foreign Hitfist turret on Rosomak IFV). Since then a lot happened in polish law (mostly bad things), but at least now our military can buy stuff without lengthy competitions and court trails that always follow them (as loser always sue te proccess as unfair and corrupt). This is what is happening in Germany, where they are unable to buy anything for their forces, without going to court.
we should pray for Jaźwiec, heavy ifv with zssw30
"Since then a lot happened in polish law " - yes, since 1939 communists made 3 "constitutions" on Polish Ground: 1952, 1976 and ILLIGAL in1997! Polish not yet allow to come back Konstytucja 1935, or build somethig very simmiliar. Poland need very much to clean courts in Poland, simply to do de-communisation, which never was made after 1989.
Bad germany made de-NAZI but put shit/scheisse in ventilator, when Polish will make
de-communization. Bad Krauts, bad germans.
Yup. Rare case someone in polish goverment care enough for their own people.
The Polish law never required competitive tender for military purposes, it is just a good practice in democratic country. The requirement of being amphibious was because some Polish generals hardly insisted on that and with the idea that the armour can be strenghten by adding composite armour plates when this feature is not needed.
@@Truspio We can do shitstorm about almost everything here. We are our own worst enemy. Remember what was happening when we bought F-16 or didnt bought choppers for army? Person who made this contract bulletproof by adding this requirement should get medal and raise.
Poland, a beautiful country united by Faith!!!
Not by faith, but the love for the land and freedom, also sadly insanely bloody history. We have a lot of religious folk, but we're zealots when it comes to defending fatherland. May God have mercy for those who invade us, because we won't.
The homogeneity of present day Poland is a post-WWII anomaly. For the previous thousand years Poland was one of the most diverse nations in Europe. Poland welcomed everyone the rest of Europe was kicking out. Why do you think there were so many Jews, Roma, & Muslims in Poland for the Nazis to kill?
- First document limiting the power of the monarch was in the 1200's
- No state religion
- No government sanctioned religious discrimination
- Muslim Tartars who joined the Polish army at various points were granted the deeded land they were promised
- There's a Polish mosque in Brooklyn, NY, founded 1928
- No laws against homosexuality.... ever.
- Had the 3rd(?) modern constitution in the world after the US and France.
- Established flying schools and a flying university in the 1800's in response to attempted Russification
And that's just off the top of my head.
Just wanted to say that you are a beautiful human being! Thanks for your content
thats very kind of you to say , I really appreciate that. I needed that today
Każdy kto kocha rosje powinien tam zamieszkać na pewien czas to się z tej miłości wyleczy.
Już jeden Polak uciekł do Białorusi i znaleźli go ja dyndał 😂
@@g1l3r48 można powiedzieć, że tak mu się spodobało, że zamieszkał tam do końca życia xdd
Забавно, хотя и не совсем правда
Mi się osobiście podobało jako turyście, w szczególności tereny Syberii
@@osososd Bo tam mało rusków. Dzikie lasy we wszystkich krajach są ładne
Greetings from Poland ♥️
I had an opportunity to be transported in a polish Rosomak which is quite similar to Borsuk in its shape, only that the Rosomak is a wheel based on a contrary to Borsuk that is track based. Rosomak had air conditioning, plywood (for stopping a ricochet) and speakers where we could blast our rap music 😄 but most importantly it had space for all the gear we carried. Sometimes you even have to take a dump in a armored vehicle and I can't imagine doing it in a BMP or a BWP.
Thanks for your great analysis always enjoy
The turret is controlled remotely, so it can be less armored to save on weight which is very important in amphibious capabilities.
I wondered about having it so lightly armored compared with the body, that makes a lot of sense, especially by preventing it from being top-heavy in windy & waves amphibious crossing!
Borsuk (ie. Badger) is especially well protected against landmines, better than many tanks in fact.
Great content Chris, thanks.
Damian Ratka is a great source for everything armoured.
Prime K2 hater
@@piotrd.4850 Ratka is not a K2 hater. You can even find materials in his channel from two years ago where he says adopting K2 tank could be a great idea if it was done together with technology transfer which is what is happening right now.
On sloping, modern composite armour often doesn't benefit from sloping nearly as much as it does rolled homogeneous armour.
Ceramic tiles for example rely more on their fracture mechanics than their overall thickness to stop an incoming penetrator & angling them increases the chance of a single hit damaging multiple tiles.
To be honest modern ammunition works differently and even argessive sloping doesn't provide enough benefit. Especially against APFSDS made of tungsten or DU - which are denser than steel and fired with much higher velocity than ammunition back in the day. These bite into armor much better, so benefits of sloping are much smaller unless it's super agressive like frontal plate of M1 (which is nearly horizontal...). Sloping by 30-40 degrees is not worth the lost internal volume anymore. It still gives benefit of effective armor thickness but these couple milimeters will not make much difference overall. And also yeah - composites work differently. Usually Ceramic & Rubber or other similar materials. These are meant to interact with other layers of armor to break up projectile and disperse force, and if it's angled weirdly this calculation can get quite complex and it may be difficult to get it to perform as intended.
Peace man liked your version of updates on military matters
Nice report CC. Hope that works out well for the Polls.
Regarding the design, when i learn martial arts years ago, my teacher said to me when i asked, "why didn't we practice body hardening so we could tolerate the pain?", he answered, "do you wanna become a sandbag? when there's an attack, evade or block, don't just accept it". i think those words translate well to the design choice of this armored vehicle, it didn't have sloped armor because it didn't planned to eat a direct shot, instead it 'block' with it's active protection system or just evade confrontation altogether.
For me the design of the BWP Borsuk is the most beautiful that ever has been designed in the past. Simply sexy
*The remotely controlled ZSSW-30 turret and the entire Borsuk are one of the prides of Poland. I hope that WB Electronics will quickly develop active protection for Borsuk and other Polish armored vehicles*
BALLSACK! Goddamnit that was liberating.... nice vid btw!
Keep 'em coming! Lots of love from Poland my dude!
An amphibuous option for Poland is great because Poland does have one geographic feature that can matter a great deal: rivers. Having the ability to ford some rivers any invader would have to bridge could be decisive for a defense-in-depth strategy based more on mobility than unit firepower. Poland is a country with lots of room for maneuver to work, but that has to remain a core element of its doctrine for it to work.
Of all my years on yt, I don't think I have ever seen an ad read for Morgan and Morgan lol
Excellent reporting.
30 mm cannon can be upgraded to 40 mm. There is a plan to make a "heavy ifv" based on k9 thunder (aka ahs krab) chassis - with same turret.
There are also plans to design heavier version of Borsuk with better armour but not able to swim.
Based on K9 body.
Heavier version will be have different cheaper hull due without weight limit you can use more steel instead on expensive composites.
@@bronks76 it's not gonna be based on Borsuk tho'. It's gonna be NEW design.
Can any real military vehicle actually drive in a reliable way submerged? Do you have to swim across on top of the water in a light vehicle, or could you drive underneath the surface (with say a snorkel poking up)? I'm assuming here we are not talking about a huge lake, but something like a river crossing or beach where the ground conditions under the water might be fairly easy to find out.
For instance some rivers are clear or shallow for part of the year. So you could see if your potential crossing points are mostly gently sloping hard gravel, rather than obstructed with big rocks, mud or deep channels.
And also Borsuk can get more armour quite easily, of course by losing swimming capabilities
Good on ya Poland! Stepping up.
It does not matter if amphibious versions are more expensive. The potential enemy will have to account for the water crossing capabilities and spread its forces accordingly rather than concentrate on choke points. It is the same reason why there are tracked vehicles, so that usage of roads is not your only option.
We did with Borsuk (Badger) what Sweden did with their CV90 platform.
To reduce cost, and time to design, and produce, you create one solid platform, which then can be configured for w/e is needed.