How Poland's New Rifle will OUTMATCH their Enemy
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- čas přidán 20. 04. 2023
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Poland’s infantry needed a new primary rifle that would give them a technological advantage over a potential Russian invasion. In order to accomplish this they turned to their very own domestically produced GROT rifle that does everything their previous old soviet style AKM cannot. The concept here is that the GROT is flexible enough to excel at the various forms of combat a Polish soldier might encounter. From trench warfare to long range tree-line to tree-line shooting.
Written by: Chris Cappy & Diego Aceituno
Edited by: Savvy Studios
The GROT was introduced in 2017 alongside the founding of their brand new military branch called the Territorial Defense Forces as part of a major modernization overhaul plan. The rifle's development actually closely tracks Poland's transition from their old soviet style weapons to the nations new place in the world as a major NATO player. Today over 10,000 Grot Rifles have been shipped to Ukrainian soldiers to help defend against Russia where it has been given stellar performance reviews.
But to be honest, it wasn’t an entirely smooth ride to get here; there were all kinds of challenges that needed to be solved by Poland along the way. Early teething issues threatened to sink the GROTS reputation, doubts about the Polish defense industry's ability to manufacture at that scale, and defense industry management held the weapons release for years. So lets find out why the Polish GROT is the perfect for their forces.
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#POLAND #RUSSIA #WEAPONS
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Be sure to check out Frag Out! Magazine: www.youtube.com/@Fragoutmag www.fragoutmag.com they are an outstanding group of Polish military content creators and they get full credit for a lot of the great footage you see of the GROT rifle in this video.
Just wanted to say that fabryka broni means gun factory
Interesting fact: GROT are now being tested in Russia Belgogrod region, "partizans" on photos and videos are using GROTs
Nice material, I'm surprised you've managed to gather so much accurate information about the MSBS Grot and its development. The one thing
I can't agree on is issuing the rifle to Terytorial forces "WOT". They are nothing more as weekend warriors that have nothing to offer but bodies taking away resources from career soldiers. Those soldiers should get the new rifles as they can offer real feedback on using them compared to older rifles. And the old equipment should be shipped to WOT as its easier to use and its more 'idiot proof'. Also in WOT there are many good experienced officers from the regular army that know this equipments ins and outs.
Do not mistake Polish WOT formation for better trained formations of the same status that operate in Ukraine forces. Its just easy money for a weekend and thats the majority of the soldiers there. Also the goverment uses them as a simple PR stunt funneling resources into them that would be better spent elswhere like the mentioned real soldiers that did the job before it was 'cool' and a lot less profitable.
in my day they taught us how to sheer of the fnc1a1's certain pin so you could take that weapon and turn it intoa fully automatic weapon being gas powered wiht a max range of a mile you'd need serious bracing to fire like that but hey
dont fuck with canada
we'll get you at range
good sniper and enjoy
Nice video 👌 could you make a video about the Polish Beryl assault rifle, please 🙏
Grot also was named after Stefan 'Grot' Rowecki, a general of Armia Krajowa, military arm of Polish Underground State fighting against german occupation 1939-1945.
Poor selection. Guy lost the war.
@@pewneosoby2108 someone could say an honorable defeat is better than an unhonorable victory. That said, Poland is still here, Germany is still here, but the third Reich has gone.
@@marcotolomio5269 This 'someone' must be crazy. No - soldier one and only duty is to win and do everything to make his country independed. By force, trickery or treason. There is no such thing as 'honorable defeat'. Defeat is ALWAYS dishonor.
@@pewneosoby2108 i don't know man, i m italian, and i m glad italy lost ww2, since we were on the wrong side (at least at the beginning). Democracy in Italy is a thing because we lost the war. So, it's winning always the best end? I don't think so.
@@marcotolomio5269 The thing is - occupant can be domestic. Totalitarian government is no different from foreign occupant. Hence in this case it was a victory.
Poland was occupied by russians and 'domestic' totatlitarian occupant.
In Romania there's a similar factory in Cugir that manufactures both firearms and sowing machines. There was a joke about a worker stealing a piece at a time to make a sowing machine for his wife, but at the final assembly he realized he had a machinegun.
Lol, we have exactly the same joke in Poland about a worker of Fabryka Broni. The practice of using dual-purpose factories producing military and civilian equipment at the same time was common in the Eastern Bloc countries. It started in the USSR.
Therefore I imagine that this joke exists in most countries of the former Eastern Bloc.
@@kamilszadkowski8864 True story... Old "Łucznik" :D Both sewing machines and machine guns...
This joke is well known in all Warsaw Pact countries
Or the joke could also go that ... a worker set out to make a sewing machine and ended up making one that only made uniforms.
The worker puts the final small part on and steps back to look at the machine he spent weeks assembling saying, "Well, that doesn't look right."... It was a machinegun, and the last part was just the forward sight. He was so sure it would come together in the end. He shrugs, "I guess I got a new hunting rifle."
The world can learn a lot from Poland. In the history of Poland you can see how often they have been betrayed by "friends" which has repeatedly cost them their independence as a state. They have learned from history and will choose the goods themselves. I wish the Polish people all the best, become strong Poles.
Thank you brother, we shall stay tall and strong, and hopefully we won't become new Julius Caesar.
Poland has never done anything for these friends. Heck, you even attacked the surviving jews in the concentration camps in 1945.
@@aon10003 Wiesz, co to jest kłamstwo oświęcimskie? To przestępstwo, które właśnie popełniłeś.
@@trycyklall I had to do was look up "polish violence against jews post ww2" and yall committed like 4 different massacres against jews lmao
my source is the Simon Wiesenthal center, whats funny is the Simon Wiesenthal Center article on the subject actually talks about how Poles and the Polish government to this day deny they ever committed genocidal actions against the Jews or that Poles were Compliant with the Holocaust (even though we have evidence of Polish men in Einsatsgruppen units and evidence of Polish leaders actively assisting the Nazi government)
@@aon10003yuuup, whats funny is the polish dude who responded to you actually played right into what the Jews have called Poland out for, straight up denying they had anything to do with the holocaust or anti Semitic acts
I’m a British-American dual citizen, but my grandmother’s parents came from Radom during WW2 where the Grot is made today. Proud of my cousins!
It seems you dont have much to be proud of
Bro your family was living in worst called city in poland by poles
You have plenty reason to be proud of Polish heritage. I owned a Radom Vis 35 and it really was "bullet-proof" - firing any 9mm ammo, including SMG-only cartridges, without a hiccup!
@@kentonbrown937 i said radom is called worst city in poland never said that i am not proud about being polish remember we are always developing weapons to counter out neigbour ones
@@bardzo_normalna_nazwa2837 Tbh my grandma did get mugged there when visiting relatives and did not like it. That’s ok, hopefully pre WW2 and pre Warsaw pact it was a lot nicer.
I feel like Poland looked around, remembered the allies that let them fall before are still their allies, and decided to start creating the second strongest military in NATO
They just don't trust Germany... AT ALL for their security...
You feel correctly.
national security is still best prepped by the nation, the article 5 is just a safety net... you might never know if it will implode
@@PrograError and nothing in article 5 mandates other nations actually send troops to fight..
@@theotherohlourdespadua1131 as a Polish person all i have to say is
YES
Poland is in the unique position of having lived through both sides of the major political ideologies. This gives them a huge advantage. They can see the bad in both. The errors that lead to the rot. Love live Poland.
U have right bro.
Advantage? That’s why they have been divided and wiped off the map 3 times…. It is advantage for us, coz we can use them against the 🐻 like we currently using Ukrainians.
@@bfg762 Advantage in that they can see the writing on the walls and prepare for the inevitables. The decline of the west, and hostility from Russia. Hence why they have been actively sure-ing up their defences and building key industry for their national economy. They're also avoiding the path of communism and the identity politics exported from america, both of which are plaguing the west right now and a primary cause of the aforementioned decline
Not that unique. Many nato countries are post warsaw pact
This is probably why I love to insult both left and right
As an American soldier that worked with the Polish TDF and Polish Land Forces that had the Grot and the Beryl, it is an awesome rifle! The Grot functions great and I feel the manual of arms is simpler than an M4/M16/AR15 type rifle. Personally, it didn’t feel any heavier than any US service M4. I just hope one day the civilian variant will be sold in the US.
God bless and save you!!! From Poland-Warsaw.
I think A1 variant was for sale in US but it was only 100 rifles.
@@slavkopolskiperun5358we are with you Poland! Much respect to you!!! 🇵🇱 🇺🇸
I hope you are not excommunicated from the US for not immediately yelling bullpup and AR-15 whenever the subject of a battle rifle comes up.
ale na pewno wiesz jeśli jesteś żołnierzem aby broń działała dobrze trzeba onia dbać ja sam miałem tylko doczynienia z polską odmiana AK w armi
The word "Grot" also is a pseudonym of Stefan Rowecki - a Polish general, who created the "Country Army" which was a resistance movement under German occupation during World War II. The gratest undertaking of the Country Army was the Warsaw Uprising in 1944. The MSBS Grot rifle is named after him.
Most common translation is "Home Army", at least that's the one i heard the most. Feels like a very British way to translate, they're the ones calling the country "home". But, yours is more literal and technically accurate than that.
Drugim ważnym zajęciem Armii Krajowej było pełnienie funkcji niejako policji państwa podziemnego. Zdrajcy byli karani przez Armię Krajową. Ratowała ona także Żydów od holocaustu. O tym świat jakby chyba zapomniał! Polacy to wogóle jeden z najbardziej przyjaznych narodów świata. Polacy mają najwięcej tytułów " sprawiedliwy wśród narodów świata", choć za ratowanie Żydów w Polsce groziła kara śmierci w innych krajach nie. Na przykład we Francji codziennością było nie ratowanie ale wydawanie Żydów Niemcom. Polska stworzyła pod okupacją państwo podziemne, którego zbrojnym ramieniem była wspomniana wcześniej Armia Krajowa.
@@wojtekmakuch4116 W Polsce też istnieli sąsiedzi, którzy wydawali Żydów Niemcom za pieniądze i ukrywający się Żydzi musieli na nich uważać aby się o nich zbyt dużo osób nie dowiedziało. Za wydanie była kara śmierci.
Wow this should be a Snapple fact 0.0 Poland is the best
I think it’s named after an arrow head.
Its interesting how alot of new rifles are similarly designed to that of the ACR.
As the songwriter once said "They stole my whole fucking flow"
A bit like the ar18, it never was really adopted but the basic design was used in many service rifles.
Poland used the ACR for a good while (I think they still might in some units) in their army arsenal and took a good bit of inspiration from it when creating the GROT. Improving where it lacked.
Looks similar to the Robinson XCR too.
Every rifle wants to evolve into the metaphorical crab that is the ACR.
I’m happy to see Poland stand up for themselves and take things into their own hands. Keep it up guys. Many people around the world are rooting for you and have massive respect for its citizens!
As a polish soldier with 3 months of military experience I have to say I love the change. Our previous rifle beryl based on ak platform are quite versatile and virtually unbreakable they tend to be not so accurate on 80+ meters and they are also quite heavy (with ammo and laser + acog attachment it’s 4.8 kg). The grot rifles are much more accurate, lighter, very easy to reload and have a higher bullet velocity
were the old AK 7,62 or 5,45?
Also i have to say, the GROT looks really identical to the American ACR rifle
The last time our government designed a rifle
It turned out to be worst assault rifle in human history
I don't know how they can fail inspite of having all the resources and technology required for making a rifle
@@nobeltniumthe beryl rifle was actually in 5.56, although export versions exist in 7.62
@@nobeltnium 5.56, Unless you mean OLD old AK, which was 7.62
Szymuś, jakie wojsko? Czynny żołnierz od 3 miesięcy, czy 3 miechy i koniec?
Huge fan of the Polish content you've put out. Thank you so much!
too bad none of it is even remotely accurate.. but rather fan fiction
Thank you Chris for shining some light over new Polish military equipment. Grot, manpad Piorun, IFV Borsuk.
I would suggest WB Electronics FlyEye system or WARMATE loitering munitions for one of the next episodes.
As a dutchie I go to sleep at night feeling save knowing the Polish military exists 🫡🫡
No seriously, those guys are beasts I highly respect them
As a Polish citizen - i don’t sleep so well…
@@Zero-jx2hf I can understand that wholeheartedly, hope things quiet down quickly
ahahahahahahahaha you can feel safe but when was the last time the Polish military took part or won any kind of conflict ????
@@rallyauto34 they have the people the money and the weapons, more than russia thats for sure🤷🏻♂️
@@rallyauto34 Poland fought two only two major wars in 20th century and it won polish soviet war in 1920s, defeating USSR. It took part in several more conflicts like in Iraq for example.
Poland did the right move to build its own weapons and produce them in house. After seeing how NATO looked unstable 5 years ago and how countries like Germany refused to help Ukraine at first, it’s clear that you risk being on your own in case of conflict.
The polish are a very ancient and underrated people. I have the utmost respect for these people.
Mieliśmy druga po Ameryce konstytucję na świecie.
@@robertklimczak5630 Artykuły Henrykowskie, będące zapisem praw obywatelskich, były ustanowione nawet przed konstytucją amerykańską i 3 Maja.
@@jaroslawpeter3586 Artykuły henrykowskie w żaden sposób nie wypełniają ram trójpodziału władzy ani żadnych oświeceniowych idei (bo takie jeszcze długo nie powstały)i xD To zwykły kodeks dla monarchy, którego ma przestrzegać z łaski wpływowej szlachty innego wyznania. Poza tym "obywatelami" byli tylko szlachcice a nie zwykli chłopi
@@robertklimczak5630 Mieliśmy pierwszą. To były tak zwane Artykuły Henrykowskie.
@@wojciechleonsuchoparte1028 Bo nie musiały gdyż trójpodział władzy praktycznie istniał w Polsce od bardzo dawna. Amerykańska konstytucja też nie czyniła obywatelami wszystkich bo pomijała murzynów chińczyków i innych "pariasów", a w Zjednoczonym Królestwie kobiety uzyskały pełnię praw obywatelskich dopiero w 1928r.
I gotta say Poland is stepping up. 🇵🇱 much respect.
Polska rozwija się dzięki obecnemu rządowi to Tusk likwidował Polski przemysł i armie
Germany on one side. Russia the other. They don't stand a chance. Poland are not a nation, they are a battle field.
@@stickemuppunkitsthefunlovi4733 germany is litteraly in ue and nato bro, if theres a war, we fighting in belarus territory
@@stickemuppunkitsthefunlovi4733 dude why would Poland and Germany fight?
@@jackowsky86 well as the man above said Poland and Germany are allies so they wouldn't necessarily fight each other but Germany may very well fight Russia on Polish land. Its not a matter of if, it's when
Im issued a Grot currently, it’s easily one of most reliable rifles I’ve ever used.
Awesome!
How are the iron sights? Is qualification out to 300 meters reasonably easy and sight picture fast?
Having a very good optic is great, but less-good optics are less-great. There's always the chance of mud smeared on a lense, too.
Yes, tell us more about it
Of course you are
@@linds6609 Yes actually….
As a frequent user of this rifle I have to admit that this material is well made in respect of the issues initially reported. However you forgot to mention about the gas piston malfunction that later on has been fixed, the issue most likely was a result of an improper handling by soldiers or being exposed which later on in the A2 version was fixed by increasing the length of the guard.
I am so used to this rifle's ergonomics that it's difficult for me to deal with other ones, such as the AK or AR. I was trained to use my index finger to put it in safety and the thumb to change the selector to fire position. In other rifles the ergonomics don't work the same way and it's impossible to switch the selector without taking your hand off the handle. By the way you can also switch the ejection port for a left handed or right handed shooter.
I have to admit that there is one negative aspect of this rifle. It's pretty heavy and in an urban environment it's difficult to operate with. I am hoping the bullpup will be available soon and it will make cqb much easier.
I get goosebumps watching our military in action, proud to be Polish.
That proud is nosense... (I'm not a rusky fanboy, don't call me suka)
@@diidac17 tfk is ur problem
@@pushek7865 just be careful about the proud you feel for one flag
we have the best history outta here and we helped everyone in ww2 though our country didnt exist and tf u mean@@diidac17
@@diidac17 Who are you to tell them that?
Went to train with the Polish TDF in 2021, can confirm the Grot is a fantastic weapon. I was genuinely surprised at how easy it is to control when firing full auto.
Unfortunately, Germans killed the entire Polish intelligentsia including engineers: this set back Poland for many decades. Not too many people know that it was 3 Polish engineers who first broke the Enigma code and also built a replica of the original machine, just to pass it to the French and British who let Poland down
@@franktuminski8460 nie zesraj się mamy nadal świetnych inżynierów
@@jacekfree8060 Listen to me primitive: I have relatives and many friends who graduated from Warsaw Politechnika and some became professors, but it took some time to replace the older generation. and this makes a big difference.
@@franktuminski8460 ok primtive we live in Poland not in Hameryka
@@jacekfree8060 I was born, educated, and living in Poland. My family still is living in Warsaw or another part of Mazovia. I hold dual citizenship because of my love for the country of my birth. Unfortunately, I see that some Poles like you are not very bright
"The main selling point of these rifles is modularity, but militaries are still hesitant to let soldiers perform basic adjustments of their own weapons"
Yeah, they buy uniforms with pockets and just to forbid you from putting your hands in your pockets too.
gotta get those style points
It's mostly because setups are mission/role specific. You're given what you need, no more no less.
@@SharpForceTrauma id say the choice between bullpup or traditional setup should be up to individual soldier, they are wasting the most unique characteristic of this rifle by restricting people from making use of it.
@@Asghaad But but but what about cute parades where all those marionets must look the same?
@@Asghaad or more importantly, what if the bullpup configuration is actually way worse a rifle, assuming it works at all? They wouldn't want you to know untill its too late right? Sure it might still have its uses, but its probably worse for normal use of the rifle.
As a seasoned Crusader Kings player it's really cool to see Poland growing into the nation state they're headed towards these days. I always see their empire pop up in my games and have a fondness for allying with them throughout my playthroughs and helping protect them from the other AI, this ficticious fondness from the game and it's shallow representation has given me an added fascination about their actions in todays world. Silly I know lol
good to hear that bro. Lov from real Poland ;)
HAhaha. Not as silly as you may think. In most games Poland is set to be targeted by its neighbours as that is what has been happening constantly over the course of history. Feeling sorry for the little guy is quite normal. Although at one point Poland was not such a small guy at all ;)
The latest, refined version of Grot is now available and it rocks. Guys in Ukraine praise it 👊🇵🇱
10k rifles being tested in the field equates to 20 years of lab research.
The amount of combined arms combat and production experience Poland is getting is incalculable. Even downstream to the Finns, The Baltic states and Slovakia---All their tech is gonna be off the chain.
Actually, where were quite some issues found during this "field exercise". And afaik all of them are already fixed in the model year 2023 Grots. So yeah, the experience they got was definitely invaluable.
@@idioluh5838
Now, as opposed to say, Vietnam where the M-16 platform was being used, the data collection and turn around time to fixing design issues is nearly instantaneous. If the Russians are going to lose, it's not because they're "stupid," it's because the speed of fixing problems
is just so ridiculous. Think about just this one thing: They're un-pallatized. Seriously. They load sh.t out of boxes. Un-real. They had a dozen conflicts to get that game together and a continent full of trees.
@@BaronEvola123 Everything you said is true for the Russians as well
@@galoobigboi including the losing part 😂😂, might as well rename it to "blue square"
@@galoobigboi Including making a "modern" "undetectable" missile that got intercepted and the people who designed it were thrown in the Gulag? Yeah, I guess Russia is pretty advanced in that field
Polish arms manufacture and inventiveness predates WWII. There were some relevant Browning BAR evolutions and small pistols with notable technical accomplishments just before 1939.
Germany and Russia never really let Poland achieve it's potential. Their time has arrived.
There were some ingenious projcets like own-based BAR version (Rkm wz. 28), similar to FN High-Power pistol (Vis wz. 35) and low-calibre but high energy anti-tank rifle (kb ppanc wz. 35), also numerous planes or tanks/tankettes. Also Józef Maroszek designed an semi-automatic rifle (kbsp wz. 38M), which was one of the earliest semiauto rifle meant for typical soldier. Unfortunetly producion of prototypes started not so long before II World War.
Also the really inventive semi auto rifle that's held together by a single pin. That gun was covered by Ian from Forgotten Weapons and was bought by the Polish goverment for their museum.
@@chrishooge3442 poland "achieved" its potential and for its crimes russia punished it.. Poland has tried its hand and played foolishly. Polish cry over their own crimes. They should look to the future.. If thry change their mindset and cooperate with eachother they have potential to do very well in the next 40 years
@@manchagojohnsonmanchago6367 What the f are you talking about? Are you another nazi russian bot? EDIT: Yes, I checked, its another brainwashed or paid bot. No more conversation with you because it's pontless. Feel bad for you tho...
actually, there is already a marksman version called Grot 762N (7,62x51 NATO cartridge, 20" barell ). 250 of those have already been order by PL army in february as a replacement for old SWD rifles
Go Poland! Love from NZ
Excellent breakdown and Poland REALLY seems to be stepping up as the lead military power in Europe. They clearly remember the lessons and outcomes from WW2 and want to make sure that never happens to their people again. Something other NATO countries, like Canada, could certainly learn from.
Yes, we've learned our lesson from 1st September 1939
@@sierp13pl Yup, and the lesson is Britain and France can’t be counted on.
It will never happen again since they are in NATO, this is just straight up paranoia
Leading army for sure. British, French and others have the air/water.
@@samdherring Bro split.
I never watch commercials. Your Goat gun advertisement was different. Thank you for putting something together that was worth watching. It was very entertaining and enjoyable to watch, and I actually looked at the product. Well done.
Respect from Northern-Europe!
Swedes and Finns are developing a new AR too (by Sako), hopefully they follow this project too.
Love you guys. From poland
Thank you - for your work - regards from Poland
Shoutout to Poland and Belgium. Definitely 2 of the coolest places for firearm designs.
And CZ too...
Yes.
That bullet through the rifle is why armies issue brown undershorts.
What a cool looking rifle.
i think its still pretty crazy how many guys go to war just because they are told to go.
Respect for Poland from Argentina
Love the videos on the replacment and development of new weapons for armies. It would be great if you could follow up on videos like these and say how the program and manufacturing is going. Love the content. Its awesome. And your analysis of the situations has gone from good to great. God bless.
Each of the new weapons goes through a specific period of "maturation", where problems emerge that cannot be detected during the design phase, the same was with the beginning of the M4 platform, only the block II version could be called truly reliable.
I'd be almost wary of any rifle that didn't have that kind of period. If anyone claimed a gun was perfect on introduction, I wouldn't want that one to bet my life on.
One hundred percent right.. only not every country has such Onet or TVN serving Germany and discrediting the domestic product at all costs. Look at the opposition politicians, especially the Civic Platform which the development of Polish companies and their competition with German, French is not convenient. what did Poncilius say? why do we need GROTs, K2 or Apache if you can buy it in Germany.. And after that, there will be no war anyway.The Germans' approach to Polish is shown by Leo 2. Poland buys parts and comes scrap twisted from old leopards.. Very often under the rust are completely destroyed bands.. Such an ally is.. worse than the enemy.
A bit like Elon's boomy rocket science, really.
It doesn't give the real picture. Prior to huge contracts for rifles, polish news website realesed a "test" that author briefly mentions. The test was obviousky biased used A0 Grot version while the field tests were already done on A1 and A2 was close to leave design desk. Another release of such a test preceded a huge public tender for rifles in Ukraine before the war.
There similar thing was done to polish artillery production when Germans demanded from Poland to set the service for german artillery next to polish factory. Imagine your direct competitors having access to your factory...
Luckily both artillery and rifles are proven to be well designed and efficient in Ukraine.
Seems to be one of the coolest modern rifles out there.
Excellent analysis. There are lots of complications in deploying small arms for an army. I'm glad you included comments on the manufacturing issues. It's really critical to have a fully integrated system for building a weapons system, not just a single-design rifle.
Work on the Grot started as early as 4 December 2007 as a construction programme (PBR/15-224/2007/WAT) and the first prototypes were built on 15 December 2009. In 2014, this weapon entered the armament of the representative company of the Polish Army. In 2017, a contract was signed for the production of 53,000 carbines.
I asked for this episode long time ago💪🏻🇵🇱
WOT (at least at beginning) was focused on recruiting local enthusiasts and past-soldiers for basically minimal pay a voluntary soldier can get in exchange for more flexibility in life. The idea was to get motivated soldiers that know their terrain really well, but aren't willing/capable of joining army full time. Giving them top of the line rifles may as well be incentive to join the formation. If you're the type to join, being able to regularly train with newest eq and be paid for it may be an interesting bonus. And it's meant to be army-wide, so the full time soldiers will get theirs in time too, so there's little to no harm in that assuming war won't happen in next ~5-10 years. It's a bit of gamble, but the formation was deemed a successful program.
Also, GROT was delivered to WOT, for actual field testing to gather user data.
Both of you are right, but another, perhaps the main reason was to reduce the costs. Initially WOT (TDF) was supposed to gwt Beryls and then reequip in 2-3 years, but that would make no economical sense, so Grot was kinda rushed in with the contract being written in a way that three first upgrades (so until A3) will be done for free by FB. A3 is in the making now.
The WOT makes a LOT more sense as a field-test than Specialist units within a Regular Army! Who is more likely to _create_ problems, (1) an experienced, capable, self-confident Private in a command with minimal supervision, or (2) a Special Forces Sergeant?
Another reason to provide WOT with new rifles was purely organisational. The plan was (and still is) to equip the WHOLE Polish Army with Grots, means that every soldier needs to be trained to use it. If WOT was given the old rifles, in short time they would have to be trained again with Grots anyway. Not only would it double the instructors' work, but also the members are not full time soldiers and their time is limited, so it's just reasonable to have the rifle training done ONCE and then focus on another topics.
It was partially to ease training ,as WOT recruits been training from start on MSBS platform while , regular Army been trained already for decades on AK/Beryl. So with WOT first you get less of “changing of habits inertia” in training , like you will get with AK/Berly trained users of Reg. Army. Looking on numbers ordered so far Polish Forces will be fully MSBS equipped in less then a decade (if current trends stay the same) Hopefully other countries forces will select MSBS Grot as it standard rifle, as it is excellent and very competitively priced design.
Poland 🇵🇱 is the best, vsim nashum bratam polskim thank you 🙏
The Polish grot, the Japanese type 20, and the Czech bren are perhaps the model production designs that we should seriously consider as replacement designs for M16/M4 -C7's
Don't lump the C7 in with the M4 please?
the C7 is just a slight improvement of the old M-16 and as some others have pointed out the Grot is actually pretty similar to the ACR which is superior to both the M4 and C7.
@@arthas640 True,but the C- 7 is better.
I mean the USMC are already using M27 IAR (hk416) to replace their m4s
But you should protect them using plasma nitriding first :)
The Arms Factory in Radom produced the famous ViS pistol, which today is the object of desire of every gun collector. Even before the Second World War, they were famous for the exceptional quality of their products. Their PPS produced after the war still operate in African countries and are doing well.
Kinda has the outline of the Bushmaster ACR and the CZ Bren. Looks dope.
This carabiner is insane
"Looks dope" ......... Easy for *you* to say.
I can't imagine anyone trying to paint it onto the fabric of Biplanes to shrink and strengthen it.
What’s the MW2019 version called? The Kilo141 or something? That’s the vibe I get from this and that’s a sexy looking weapon.
Well, polish special forces spoke highly of the ACR and I'm pretty sure some of them used them during Afghanistan. So they most likely wanted to implement some of its ergonomics and features.
butter_warrior, you're forgeting the FN SCAR and a lot of influences that were based on the german HK G-36 rifles and carbines
great piece, very competently presented! 👍👍
MSBS Grot first went to Territorial Defense units so that they could test this new riffle. And they did, for instance, Territorials folks found quickly issues with a shooting from Grots "dry" without bullets to practice and how quickly dry shooting was using up a "needle" part and it got fixed in the later versions. The most current version of MSBS is A3, I believe and the FB factory is still working on improving a gun.
Gonna wait for the A3 or maybe A4 to hit the civilian market.
Should be mint by then.
@@kajetandziebaj6405 that's right, I am sure that defenders of Ukraine have been providing some combat feedback in regard to MSBS riffles they have been using in thousands, to Fabryka Broni.
we did't use ak74, we used tantal wz.88 that was in 5.45x39 like ak74 family. Then we jumped into Beryl :)
Ok same shit
@@lukabrdar6732 nope, Tantal is way cooler 😉
@@lukabrdar6732 Nope. Just look at the burst mechanism.
And Nigeria jumped into beryl a month ago
Maybe not jump but rather crawl :(
From what I've heard filtering down, the Polish Special Ops people are topnotch. Some of the cold war stuff I've seen, the Poles were probably the most competent troops available in the Warsaw Pact.
Competent and second in size but never trusted as East Germans for example.
*were untill a russian spy became head of defense 👍
Love watching your videos))) keep it up our most loved infantry man. A member of spare part army from ua
I subscribed simply because your dad was hilarious in the GoatGun commercial! The close combat part had me rollin!!!
Dude, this was a concise nuanced review of this weapons development and deployment. What is happening to you. Canadian infantry 83-90. When we transitioned from the FN FAL to the M16a2(C7) the troops were kind of at a loss. The thing was reliable and accurate but so frail. We were breaking them on the parade square doing our normal rifle drill. But the troops learned quickly to not beat the thing up and when we quickly got rid of our stupid canadian magazines and then replaced the carry handle with a picatinny rail it was a fantastic rifle.
Poland’s rise to becoming the strongest military in Europe is impressive to say the least
Having as the neighbors russ and germs, two most aggressive nations in the Europe history does Poland have an other choice??...
@@tomjakob3234 i really would not call Germany the most aggressive neighbour in history. They were basically the punching bag for France since ever. Also there was no Germany before the 19th century
@@masterchief-vd1xs And I would my friend cause the first aggressive invasion of the Teuton tribes to the Roman Empire including Balcans, Iberia and Gaul (today's France) took place at l- st century B.C. over two thousand one handed years ago.
Sins that time the German tribes
ancestors called Saxons Brandenburgs, Teutons, Prussians, Germans etc. have never stopped.
Now seems they have a break, but it's not the end I'm afraid.
That's why I didn't write 'aggressive countrys' but 'aggressive nations'.
@@tomjakob3234 well first I would not go back over 2000 years in time. Because by this standard the italians and greek are the most brutal and oppressing countries.
Also note that the Germanic tribes are not really Germans. They are part of their ancestors yes, but nothing more. I mean 30% of the nowadays Germans have also slavic gens. The Germans are just a melting pot of central European tribes.
The last part is just pure racism and anti German prpaganda. Great job 👍
This is a matter of necessity. Poland doesn't have good experiences with Russia or its allies coming to timely aid in a case of a war.
Thanks for video,good job👍
The Beryl is a beast to shoot, cant wait to try the Grot out. If I have a chance. I'll be in Poland next week if anyone wants to hook me up? :)
Wow I'm amazed that they did so much testing and so many investigations into the design in order to perfect that gun
Z powodu niskiego budżetu na armię.,większość projektów przed produkcja jest bardzo długo testowanych. I trwało to bardzo wolno . Teraz pieniądze płyną szerokim strumienie, budowane są nowe fabryki a stare mają wreszcie 100% mocy produkcyjnych zajęte. Przykład,Niemcy mają skynex my też mamy podobny 35mm lecz na pojeździe. Testowany.
Thats pretty standard. The US did much the same refining the M-16 (itself a rush prototype) into the M16A1 and later M4, all the while producing and testing replacements like the ACR and SCAR. We've seen the issues that come about from poorly tested guns, especially ones that arent tested in the field like French Chauchat which couldnt handle dirt, sand, and mud with it's original magazine but was thrown into the trenches and was in part designed for the deserts and jungles of France's colonies, or like the aforementioned original M-16 which was sent into the jungles when it handled humidity and dirt poorly and wasnt sent with enough trained users or maintenance equipment.
@@arthas640 Except development of MSBS took almost two decades xD
@@piotrd.4850 That's pretty standard. Sometimes weapons get developed really fast if they're an update or alteration to an existing rifle, the M-4 took almost no time to develop since it started out as a carbine version of the M-16 (originally the CAR-15) that was customized a bit and turned into the early M4. The M-16 took around 14 years to develop and they made some improvements after it first saw combat so that was around 14 years of design and development plus 3 years of combat to get us the M16A1 that was popular for so long.
It's really funny seeing Russia, a supposed top notch military pre-Ukraine war when it comes to their battle rifles. The took massive inspiration from the STG-44 to make their AK-47 and aside from some basic upgrades like replacing wood with plastics they haven't changed a ton since the 40s and 50s while other countries like China and the UK have gone from bolt action to semi auto to selective or full auto assault rifles to bull pup rifles as technology changed. A lot of their tech has stagnated and they seem to increasingly rely on copying foreign designs and ideas, importing it, or pretending that largely cosmetic changes are the same thing as improvements.
Interesting concept.
I've heard about this rife. Just didn't know it was so adjustable (which is a good thing).
Fun fact: Fabryka Broni means literally "Weapons Factory"
Yes, but full name is weapons factory bow-man. Fabryka broni Łucznik
2 Fun fact: they also make locks mounted on door and they become brand-name in Poland, like Pampers means one time use diaper.
Thank you Poland, for your leadership and commitment to democracy. With balls like yours, you don’t need a desk.
A nation "committed to democracy" wouldn't be denied an opportunity to voice its opinion in general elections and these were already delayed twice.
@@gratius1394 lol what are you talking about xd
@@mistewiczjakub2275 Hmm, I was pretty sure that Polish elections were delayed for a year two times. I guess I was wrong.
EDIT: Sorry, it was about regional elections, not general. My bad.
Poland is barely a democracy at best
Gradius! … demokracja w Polsce od zakończenia lIWŚ nie była jeszcze w tak dobrej kondycji jak dzisiaj! Wyluzuj i wyłącz lewackie media😜
The military: "survive, adapt, overcome!"
Also the military: "oi, stop fiddling with your rifle!"
Polish army motto is actually "God, Honour, Fatherland", so at least they have that as defense.
@@UssurinThankfully it also is becoming inappropriate
Yes, brass is strong in our army. To the point that some NCOs discouraged left-handed soldiers from changing the ejection side...
In one of the interviews of Eugene Stoner somewhere on CZcams, Stoner argued that regular soldiers should have minimal easy adjustments on their rifles. He said that nervous soldiers tend to fiddle with dials and knobs.
@@legitplayin6977 lol how? XD
Jestem dumny z mojegoi kraju 🤍🤍🤍❤❤❤ tak wiele zmianiło się w Polsce od 1989 roku.
Excellent, Chris! Just excellent. Please keep us up to date with the A2; and how the Bullpup conversion is doing. How do GROM like it?
Pretty cool that your Dad agreed to do the GOAT commercial :)
he's retired so he doesn't have anything better to do lol nah just kidding it was nice of him to help out
good job cappy! Keep up the good work. The way you put out the information is so much more interesting than a block of instructions!
Thanks CHRIS well done God bless you👍
Poland and Ukraine... My two favorite countries in Europe for many reasons. Not just travel. Love and respect from USA!
One thing I've noticed on Twitter is that the Russian propagandists *love* to suggest that Poland wants to take eastern Ukrainian territory. The Russians realize that Poland is one of Ukraine's best allies and desperately want to put a wedge between them.
Feel free to visit Poland. I've met a lot volunteers from USA here.
@@vattghern257 Thinking about it 🙂
Admire from distance
We are not country, we are a nation, of true organic kind.
Poland and Ukraine were parts of the same crown till Moscow grabbed it as from 1648
Even a guy responsible for developing a design of this rifle stated that he and his team were (at the beginning) testing all of the rifles available on the market and the ACR was their favorite;) thou as I understand during further development the actual design of the operating mechanism changed quite a bit, so it just looks similar from the distance but internally it's a totally different beast
Glad to hear that our factories make good equipment🙏United States giving also us great support and promotion of polish products 💪
Looks like a great rifle! I hope they become available in the US.
Polish guy here. You said fabryka broni just right 👌🏻
I've been gushing over the MSBS platform since it was shown in COD Ghosts, WW3 and Sirvarium! Easily the one of the sexiest modern eurorifles. Hopefully they've resolved its growing pains.
Since the first Grots were delivered to Ukraine FB's engineers collecting feedback and work on improvements.
Growing pains is an understatement, but I am happy to report as a way hand user and maintainer that many have been fixed. Many remain but the platform has too much potential to drop it. When Radom gets it to work properly I can see it being very desirable world wide. Hopefully they can deliver.
msbs bullpup is the sexiest
OOOOOOH I REMEMBER THAT IN GHOSTS
@@mil3k Beta testers lol
I've had my hands on one and they're quite awesome.
2:34 - actually, they were sold off. Łucznik still produces sawing machines that can be bought at store shelfs. The new owners just had to change a lot of production to make it profitable which wasn't possible in public hands, due to for example unions denying lay offs or goverment not wanting to change focus from high-value machines to medium-value machines for prestige reasons.
"Łucznik still produces sawing machines that can be bought at store shelfs" - It's not Łucznik anymore. Łucznik doesn't exist. During its liquidation, it sold rights to many things, including "circle 11" and "Łucznik" brands.
@@randomnobodovsky3692 I'm pretty sure the Łucznik was a package brand-factory and the factory was just so unworkable that it was vlosed down and salvaged into new factory.
But I was pretty young at the time, so maybe I'm mixing it up.
Well, the brand is still on the shelfs.
Cool!
People forget how important sewing machines are!
@@Ussurin So it means it is not the same Lucznik, same producer and same factory, or?
Many people tend to believe "it was not all wrong during socialism" lots of good stuff and factories we have built" - bullshyt, most of them their machines, workers, products, planning were unusable. And new investors (or ex-managers who robbed own company) created new production, production lines, so as new know-how, work process, people and mostly quality control.
@@palohagara105 well, it's really depends on what you believe it to be "a factory". Legally speaking bulding and machines have nothing to do with being the same factory as it's purely legalistic concept.
As for the commie stuff, I agree 100%.
As usual, I was drawn in to a subject I didn't think I'd be interested in: the arming process of other nations. Great presentation, man.
Yeah, arming process - and again only against Russia, as most cases in history. Incredibly rich and large country/nations, who still has not enough. Sometimes with syphillitic paranoid rulers, like Lenin.
Let's hope only armament and preparation will be enough to stop them, preventing a new World War III start.
(Crying Cheems)
Grot: Please dont drop me, I break easily.
(Buff Doge)
Beryl: Yeah, you can use me as a club incase you run out of ammo.
Your dad killed it.. Loved him.. Thanks!
That bullpup conversation kit as standard is wild
I participated in comparative tests with polish Grot version 1, HK416, FN SCAR, Bren 2 and M4A3. Grot still had its shortcomings - childhood diseases, but despite that, we decided that only the HK416 was friendlier, easier to use in general ... I love the 416. The other assault rifles fared a little worse, but M4A3 was number 3 in our opinion. There were seven of us and it lasted for two days. This was only Grot version 1, which will be modified anyway for the highest version, probably v3 or v4. Currently, v2 is ready and v3 is being worked on. It was disturbing that when the Ukrainians needed every weapon, the Poles could only give them the imperfect Grot version 0... or the older and much less advanced Beryls. Ukrainian soldiers praise this assault rifle, but unfortunately there was a wave of criticism ... especially from the German-controlled media. I understand that in the future Heckler&Koch also has its plans when this war ends. ;) But it was not a fair game, the Poles did not triumphantly announce that Puma, Lynx or PzH2000 are very modern but very defective. But now, today, the Grot is a very interesting weapon, and in version 3 or 4 it should be really, really good, right at the top, among the best of its kind. Kind regards - S.
What do u mean by "German controlled" media?
A basic modern day M16 is fine either the A2 or A4
Super review!
I really enjoy 😂 your work, you can make the most "boring or narrow" subject interesting and funny!
I hope the swedish army looked at this in their procurement process 😂
Poland is low-key becoming one of the best conventional armies in terms of quality anywhere.
except indebted horribly
@@Szymek25 zobacz ile jest długu do PKB. Wtedy się wypowiedz. Dług polski będzie rosnac po to by była Polska. A I zobacz długi do PKB innych krajów.
@@robertklimczak5630 jeśli dług Polski będzie rosnąć to po to by była 'żydowska' :-\
false
Russian bomb dropped in Poland and nobody knew for like a year
No, Your pronunciation of Fabryka Broni is actually pretty good, especially since in English polish "r" is pretty much nonexistent. It's on par with what I'd expect from someone learning Polish quite some time just with heavy domestic accent :P
Giving new, less or potentially untested, equipment to the TDF makes sense if you need your full time professional force to remain at 100% readiness - you can't do that if you switch them to a new weapon en masse without extensive training and gaining operational experience first.
Love the goat gun ad
Well done!
Polish MSBS system is definitely a brilliant design with top notch manufacturing&materials. And price is at right level. Its appearance scare H&K and SiG Sauer so much they organise slander camping against Grot in Swiss/German own media outlet operating in Poland called Onet.
One of test was doctored by spraying bolt carrier thick in oil and dropping handful of sand in to ejection port - and claiming that rifle is jamming 😂. In other test they put parts from A0 (development test-bench) in to service A1 Rifle saying that Grot “is lacking promised futures” (what was a clear manipulation)
I believe right now Onet facing multi-million € lawsuit from Polish Armament Group . With MSBS Grot A3 version being implemented now it is actually quite mature system with a lot user suggestions (some from combat in Ukraine) implemented in to design, and best part is that due to modular construction even older rifles are easy to bring to A3 standard by swapping parts in field armoury or by user. Personally I hope that Bull-Pup kit will be fielded in some numbers , as it is perfect solution as PDW for vehicles crews giving you 16” 5.56mm firepower with compact package.
Germans trying to cheat and fuck over Poles? Where did I hear that before.
I want to see an integrally suppressed bullpup grot with a 40mm underslung, make it the most futuristic looking in-service rifle to date😁
Der Onet 😂😂😂
It's cool seeing you and your dad working together. Hope to see it more often
In Switzerland, we use a very competent gun for our army school and during our yearly repetitions. The Sig Sauer SG550.
We always take it for granted that rifle can simply perform to every task, never jam, have a crisp trigger and go well for houses combat or field defense. Without aknowledging the work there was above. All the errors that needed to be fixed and the evolution to get where we are standing now. Looking at such documentaries let me reflect of things that seemed natural for me.
I thank the clever engineer trying to make our world a safer place.
I'd love to get my hands on a grot one of these days cause it's very interestin to me and seems like a solid gun
This year there will be another interesting firearm released on civil and military market produced by Polish company (Zakłady Mechaniczne Tarnów ) called "MWS - Modular Weapon System" MWS-15(.223), MWS-25(.308) and MWS-38(.338).
First Grot rifles were designed to use 5,56 and later on they were scaled up to 7,62 ammo.
When it comes to MWS family they started with 7,62 and scaled it down to 5,56.
ZMT's guns won contracts for long range riffle in Polish army and other special forces.
Tarnów does not produce BWP Borsuk
@@henieq oh Yes, you got me on that.
>civilian market
>name your product "MWS-15(.223)"
pick one
@@rhodesianbrushstrokewhat do you mean?
Poland just wants to make sure history doesn't repeat itself 💪 🇵🇱
Don't worry. You have the British as allies and you can always rely on us to act fast when our allies are in trouble.
:'(
Im all for poland protecting themselves but its starting to look a bit like an authoritarian government going insane on military spending.
@@Ukraineaissance2014 "preppers" always look insane until SHTF. And then they look like the sanest people around.
@@Ukraineaissance2014 If we had Russia & Bellorus on the doorstep ....
With their History I'd want that spend *TREBELLED*
@@Ukraineaissance2014 You call these socialists an authoritarian government? xD
Excellent video. Many thanks from Ireland.
Love the ad you did with your dad, Cappy.
Poland's domestic arms industry can be relied on to produce competently designed equipment since 100 years ago.
Tragically, they got rolled before they could get the good stuff to troops in sufficient quantity. They aren't making that mistake again.
England and France also got rolled in 1940 with their "world class " weapons after preparing for a year for the Germans .
@@petesheppard1709 It was not a mistake, it was the tragedy of poor country, which has suffered Russian, Austro-Hungarian and Prussian partition and colonisation, then got completely demolished during WW1, and three years after finally gaining back the independence got invaded again by Soviet Russia. It then took the Poles less than 20 years to build quite impressive army and arms industry from scratch, but which country in the world would be able to withstand the simultaneous invasion by Nazi Germany and USSR in September 1939?
@@xniorvox So true; in 1939, Poland just ran out of time. THIS TIME, you are hardening before a threat becomes overwhelming.
@@petesheppard1709 didnt stop them from biting a chunk out of Czechoslovakia in 1938 ... oh the irony of them getting steamrolled by Wehrmacht in Czech tanks they themselves helped to deliver to the Germans is just pure gold ...
I think the MSBS Grot has great potential and I see it possibly being an iconic rifle to Poland in a similar way to how the AK is iconic to Russia and how the M16 is iconic to America
At 0:17: "the AKm-canat"... Solid sounding rifle! 👍😄
Love the Goat gun ad Cappy!
Cappy, your production values continue to improve. I even enjoy your ads. Well done. And you are almost to the million subscriber mark
Excellent episode. Well researched and presented.