Intelligent Design DESTROYS Atheism! | Talk Heathen: Throwback
Vložit
- čas přidán 3. 05. 2024
- Call the show on Sundays 1:00pm-2:00pm CDT: 1-512-991-9242
Don't like commercials? Become a patron & get ad-free episodes & more: / talkheathentome
► Find all of our links here: linktr.ee/atheistcommunityofa...
The podcast may be found at:
tiny.cc/podcastph
Talk Heathen merch can be found at: tiny.cc/merchaca
Note: We request pronouns as part of the call screening process on our shows, and we display the pronouns our callers provide. If you see a caller with no pronouns indicated, this is because they chose not to provide us with any, and we respect that decision.
-------
WHAT IS TALK HEATHEN?
Talk Heathen is a weekly call-in television show in Austin, Texas geared toward long-form and on-going dialogue with theists & atheists about religion, theism, & secularism. Talk Heathen is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin.
Talk Heathen is filmed in front of a live studio audience every week at the Freethought Library of the Atheist Community of Austin.
The Atheist Community of Austin is organized as a nonprofit educational corporation to develop & support the atheist community, to provide opportunities for socializing & friendship, to promote secular viewpoints, to encourage positive atheist culture, to defend the first amendment principle of government-religion separation, to oppose discrimination against atheists & to work with other organizations in pursuit of common goals.
We define atheism as the lack of belief in gods. This definition also encompasses what most people call agnosticism.
NOTES
The views and opinions expressed by hosts, guests, or callers are their own and not necessarily representative of the Atheist Community of Austin.
/ talkheathen is the official channel of Talk Heathen. "Talk Heathen" is a trademark of the ACA.
Copyright © 2024 Atheist Community of Austin. All rights reserved.
No woman who has ever given birth will argue for intelligent design.
If there was intelligent design, this caller wouldn’t exist
Dang, imagine being proof intelligent design doesn't exist 💀
You can’t destroy atheism, it doesn’t exist. The lack of belief in something isn’t a thing, it’s a lack of a thing.
Guys like Victor act like if we put a strand of DNA under a microscope we would literally see a bunch of alphabetical letters.
Well... if we put a microprocessor under a microscope, we also do not see 0s and 1s 🤔
@@rlstine4982 In the case of a microprocessor we know there was a mind that designed a language in the form of programming languages running in various layers on top of the kernel and ultimately on top of the bios in order to make the microprocessor do what we want it to do simply because we were the minds that did that. In the case of DNA we don't have reason to believe there was a mind that created some language to control how cells function. The language that's talked about in reference to DNA is one that we've made up just to help us understand and communicate these concepts with others.
@@rlstine4982it's almost like a microprocessor is not a code either
yes lol -
@@Olyfrun well, actually it is. It is a code represented in the form of electronical components. Definition of microprocessor: "A microprocessor is a computer processor for which the data processing logic and control is included on a single integrated circuit"
This kid has little knowledge of biology, yet talks as if he had a PhD. It's always the most ignorant talking with absolute confidence.
Another Dunning-Kruger poster child… they LOVE to call this show
He's definitely using a script
@@brianfergus839 Better using physics to illustrate the design in the universe. Do you know what a particle is?
If we use the word Dog backwards that means that God is real then? He solve it all
Let me assure you that he not only has little knowledge of biology, he also has very little knowledge of linguistics.
It's amazing that he speaks with such pretense of authority on both...
I can say that fairies make the flowers grow but the existence of flowers proves not the fairies
Sounds like the start of a folk song!
I can say flowers pop into existence because of a non intelligent occurrence but the existence of flowers proves not that they popped into existence because of a non intelligent occurrence
But you can't prove that there aren't fairies!
"I have proof! You want to hear it? To start, I'll redefine basic terms. Then I'll go down an irrelevant thought experiment. Then I'll spend 10 minutes arguing about an extremely particular thing I don't understand that's not related to any of my previous points."
Should've used physics
@@JerimiahJoeJimBobJake We can start with the obvious design in the Universe. Do you know what an elementary particle is?
@@JerimiahJoeJimBobJake Do you know what an elementary particle is?
As a software engineer, I love the argument that DNA is code that must've been written by god like a computer program. If I wrote a program and included as much unused "code" in it as there is unused "code" in the human genome, I'd be fired.
Edit: And I see you covered this later in the conversation.
Yep! I'm a software engineering student and my code is no way intelligent!
Also if code did design our DNA like code then he would definitely be fired. Because he wrote some shitty code. lol
@@Saboteur4 Oh, agreed. One of my favorite YT videos is "A biologist calls Jesus on the phone" by Forrest Valkai (and guest CZcamsr whose name I forget).
It's actually a not-so-good point, if I may. First, we do not totally understand DNA, I would not be surprised that we discover that said junk DNA has some useful function. I am not saying it does, but that would not surprise me. Now, in computer programs, a lot of software code is useless because, for each program instance running, a lot of software features are never used - hence the code for these features is never executed in practice. Software compilers also add a lot of useless code naturally, for padding segments, or for failing to find better optimized ways to write code.
@@rlstine4982 what’s your background? Biology or computer science?
Intelligent design is disproved by evolution which actually has been proven. DNA is not a code, but to make it appear more understandable to the layperson we call it a code.
Well to be fair you COULD say that things were “intelligently designed” to evolve. Many Christians take this path but can’t demonstrate it or why/how.
Wikipedia disagrees, but I do not see why that would be a problem for DNA to be a code anyway. That does not prove God.
In 2016 the Royal Society got together because evolution hasn't proved anything. No one has ever proved one kind evolving into another kind.
Opens with a false dichotomy
And it’s downhill from there.
Comparing dna to language is like comparing keyholes to language. Matter behaving by its properties isnt a code.
I... really like that point. Not sure if I'd use as a designed lock as an analogy, just to avoid that obnoxious crap. But in principle, that's a damned good analogy.
Look at the trees! Vishnu/Horus/Odin/Osiris/Zeus/Quetzalcoatl/Pangu exist!
DNA is nothing like C++, Java, html or any other programming codes. Each of these are specifically designed to perform specific functions. DNA doesn’t always have a clear function. It’s not as simple as the programming languages we use to code software. And even that isn’t simple.
This is an attack on ID that isn’t used sufficiently. In software development, languages are more or less rich, with multiple ways to loop, branch, decide conditionals, etc. Languages are NEVER four symbols where all the value is in the interpreter. Anyone who says with a straight face DNA is a code doesn’t know how to code.
@@diogeneslamp8004 Exactly. Programming is specifically design to perform functions on a computer. Writing a block of code with a specific function will only run when it's called. With DNA, the letters assigned to DNA or rather the molecules called nitrogenous bases that are part of a larger molecule called a nucleotide that forms the basic building block of DNA are just abbreviations for what they are called. A stands for adenine. T stands for Thymine and what not. Even though we can link certain nitrogenous bases with certain trains such as hair color and what not, we still don't understand the specific relationship that these links have. We see correlations, but we have no idea what is the causation or reason for them. Unlike programming which is designed by a person to do specific functions on a computer such with java script in basic animation. I can put in a specific line of code to make a ball move across a screen. But I still can't manipulate someone's DNA to change their hair color.
These things are not related in the slightest. Guys like the one who called in just assume they are because we use phrases like store genetic information or the biological instruction manual found in your cells to put a difficult and complex concept in layman's terms for people like the caller to get a basic grasp on.
@@diogeneslamp8004 Well... Languages are never four symbols, it's worst than that, they are made of 2 symbols... So I am not sure this argument would hold strong against ID.
@@rlstine4982
How do you figure two symbols?
@@diogeneslamp8004 He means actual machine code which is just made out of ones and zeros.
"intelligent ---------design-------" does not mean IT exists !
I forgot just how much ID proponents love to move the goalposts.
They rely on word magic. “It’s like code, and code requires a coder, therefore the universe was created by a disembodied consciousness!”
@@shecklesmack9563That lives outside space and time
Should use physics to show design. Do you know what a particle is?
I think you mean "cdesign proponentsists."
@@professorflynn8062 I only just learned the information I needed to understand this joke today. Good one!
Wow he really saw that "Mr. DNA" cartoon scene from Jurassic Park and thought he'd stumbled across the hardest of sciences
If you've ever seen the South Park episode about Mormons, where they just keep doing a chorus of "Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.dumb"... That is what I hear through this "proof".
I look at callers argument like this:
According to callers argument, we would have decoded gods code for life, right?
So... we don't need god anymore.. right? 😂
That doesn't really make sense. If you read the Dictionary you don't have magic powers to create the things you read.
@@Shiftarusbut you could copy the words from the dictionary without the dictionary's original author.
The dictionary itself doesn't have the power to create the things it describes either. Neither does its author. So that's not really the same.
It's quite telling that Creationists are often conspiracists as well. None can clarify who this nebulous "they" are, the "they" who supposedly hand out misinformation like so many sweets.
“They” shall always remain nameless, faceless disembodied entities just like god so therefore “they” are god.
"You're not answering the question" - a guy interrupting someone who is answering his question to tell them that they aren't answering his question.
He stopped the guy from going off on a long winded tangent. The caller needed to get to his point not tell his life story.
@@dwp6471 Physics shows design.
@@matthewphilip1977
No it does not.
@@dwp6471 Why do you believe that?
@@matthewphilip1977
Because I don't believe in the existence of magic or a master magician who created and organized the world.
I hope they re-upload the Darth Dawkins calls so people can see how truly insane he is
They have. They’re terrible!
The next time you accidentally bite your tongue, please tell me about intelligent design again.
Or choking on food.
Or as I have managed to do twice this year already trip over nothing and go over on my ankle
Or have eye problems.
I laugh at intelligent design proponents that come up on stage to talk....... while wearing eye glasses!
This is like saying “if there’s a man in the moon, he has to have parents!” or “if a lion has a pride, it must also have envy!”
No, words are labels we use to attach to things so we can refer to them. Words don’t define the reality of things.
This guy walked so Jon from Canada, the Seven Day Guy, and David from California could run.
I believe Stanley(the 7-day guy) has been floating around longer than this kid, and California David has DEFINITELY been around a lot longer. It's my contention he's the same guy as Kenny from Elk Grove way back in the halcyon AE days in their original studio.
This guy is also a flat earther
@@saikoakuma fair. The first axp video I ever watched was this guy so for me he’s the original.
@@jonleemusicperson Hell of a first impression that must've been, huh? Tracey's turn with Victor was another standout episode, too.
@@saikoakuma yeah I miss Tracey. She was like an aunt who had common sense and explained stuff real good lol
Would it be really mean to explain that a brilliant scientist used the analogy of dna being a sort of code so ignorant people could understand it a bit?👍💙💙💙🥰✌
That’s why I’m against dumbing down science for people.
I don't think we need to throw out the code thing entirely. Most DNA does nothing, most of the rest does not function as a code at all, but about 2% of human DNA can be transcribed into RNA that can in turn be translated into amino acid chains in ribosomes. The process of translation relies on RNA triplets that are literally called "codons" and we can look at a DNA sequence and predict what amino acid chain that sequence might produce (although in eukaryotes it's not so easy due to extensive RNA processing).
My point is, there kind of is a code. Or something that it's useful to describe as a code.
Stupidity & ignorance breed confidence...
Victor 😂 you should have gone to school as a kid, and you could have avoided this embarrassment
Always funny when a theist who has no expertise in a subject is so certain about conclusions when those with expertise have a different conclusion
Double entendre, the bane of the illiterate.
I've got a bunch of them. Just say the word and I'll give you one.
Did an 'Intelligent Designer' also make the code for cancer?
If he argues that it was bc we're sinners, ask him, just why are we "sinners'? Could it be bc he 'created' us with sin? How on earth is that even humane, much less loving?
If the trans clone called Eve had not eaten that apple think of where we could be!
@@Jcs57 a world where Christianity had never existed is so hard to imagine!
The sodium nitrate part really made me laugh!!!
This guy clearly doesn't understand!
Victor's argument is very convincing.
"I don't know how much junk DNA there is, but I'm going to assume that it's a large amount."
Thanks, Brooklyn.
The irony of so many supporters of Intelligent Design, being very intellectually challenged is quite extraordinary.........
As a science nerd the whole sodium nitrate Vs sodium chloride but made me giggle
But there is obvious design in the Universe.
@@matthewphilip1977 I didn't say anything about ID. But go on then what's the evidence of design
@@matthewphilip1977 yeah... a shitty design, you guys worship a pos designer.
Please, do tell why the designer designed a sun that will give us skin cancer.
@@matthewphilip1977 🙄
Yes its all found here with the things we designed and have proof that we designed. Funny that isnt it. There is design in the universe but the only place it exists is in one localised area and we have proof of where all that specific designed stuff came from...and its us apes! No need to invent an imaginary friend at all. @@matthewphilip1977
The alphabet is a code, and my soup told me Victor is an idiot.
Ghosts write messages in my Spaggheti-Os all the time.
But the latin alphabet is used by many different languages which give different meanings to each letter, feel apart straight away.
Is this the flat earth guy?
Yeah he's one of them. To the point it's hard to tell if he's a poe or not.
More like smooth brain guy
Yep. I’ve heard him a few times on different channels. He’s a narcissist that demand people see him like god and say he’s infallible. If you don’t you’re in a cult!
If you map the molds on my back, and insert the resulting pattern into an algorithm that is the translation of the planet's orbit around the Sun, and you then associate the letter of the alphabet, the result is the sentence "God doesn't exist".
Wondering what the caller has to say about this.
Suggest using the Periodic Table as something with the appearance of a code.
The major detail many theists don’t realize is we don’t know what we don’t know and actually the more you know the more you realize how much you don’t know. All we have is the information we’ve gathered based on our current level of technology.
They fail to understand this because they are coming from a place of believing in a god provides them all the answers for every question.
If only this guy called when Forrest was already a host. Dude will be destroooooyed about facts about DNA.
The matching junk that we have with mice have been knocked out of mice withiut a problem showing that it is in fact junk
This is a pretty old take, but modern genetic research says Junk DNA ONLY means sections of the DNA that does not code. But those parts of None coding DNA are internal to cell function, gene activity, acts as regulatory elements for genes provide sites (transcription factors) for specialized proteins....
Junk DNA is essentially a laymen's term for None coding DNA only.
It's a sequence, not a message.
I gave my roommate a waffle that is made of 98% rat feces. She declined. Strange. Yesterday she told me she enjoys waffles.
The Law of Gravity is a descriptive law and not a prescriptive law.
DNA is a descriptive code and not a prescriptive code.
Still signs of design in the Universe though.
@@matthewphilip1977 no
@@fungiblenonsense Yeah, there are signs of design in the Universe. Do you know what a particle is?
@@matthewphilip1977 whoops. I've exceeded my interest in this discussion.
@@fungiblenonsense No worries. Someone else will pick up the baton.
Removing "junk" DNA has a potential risk of the collapsing of the entire sequence... I think. Traditional Katana made by "pig" iron. The purpose of the layering is that you beat out some of the bad parts and make it stronger too in the process. There will be junk inside the metal so after a certain amount of time you finalize the product. If then you try to remove all the junk remain within the steel it will cause holes which is worse than having some junk inside....
Callers talks like a 5 year and frankly has the intelligence as one too.
I think that atheism will survive for a while.
The part where comparing DNA to language falls appart:
Words are abstractions. Proteins are not.
Proteins don't stay in a singular shape always. They can change configuration depending on environment and conditions.
Proteins are subject to physics and words aren't.
Sodium Nitrate is indeed also a salt. Just not one you would cook with.
Apparantly a research group removed a small portion of non-coding DNA from mice in 2004 and found no ill effects on the mice
hearing this guy talk in this and the flat earth vid i cannot escape the mental image of joey wheeler desperately rattling off empty headed conspiracy shit and lemme tell you that shit has absolutely made my week
This is what I googled because I didn't know this information:
The 98.8% similarity between human and chimpanzee DNA only applies to alignable protein-coding sequences. Many non-coding sequences are highly dissimilar, and some parts of the human and chimpanzee genomes are so different that they can't be aligned for comparison. For example, the human y chromosome is radically different from the chimpanzee genome.
Historically, almost 99% of the human genome has been classified as non-coding, useless "junk" DNA. However, more functions are being discovered for "junk DNA".
If even 1% of the human genome was classified as non-coding DNA, I wouldn't consider that intelligent design because god, the christian god at least, is supposed to be perfect. You can't even really have these conversations because they can't prove the big assumption that their god exists.
Stupid is as stupid does.
" comparing the DNA of chimps and humans absolutely includes what was once called "junk DNA." This term refers to the vast stretches of DNA that don't code for proteins, which are the building blocks of cells.
It turns out, this "junk DNA" may be much more important than scientists originally thought. Recent research suggests that these non-coding regions play a crucial role in gene regulation, meaning they influence how and when genes are turned on and off. These regions can act like switches, turning genes up or down, and can also determine which tissues a gene is expressed in.
Studies have shown that differences in these non-coding regions between humans and chimps may be responsible for some of the key features that set us apart, such as our larger brains and more complex cognitive abilities. While our genes themselves may be very similar, variations in how they are regulated by this "junk DNA" can lead to big differences." -
If you eat sausages or some cured meats you're eating sodium nitrate; Albeit in small proportions it's a critical component of the curing process.
If an intelligent designer existed, there wouldn't be "junk DNA". Show me how much "junk watch" there is in a watch to show that a designer purposely puts in "junk parts" to design things.
Something tells me Victor is more related to a chimp than the rest of us.
For once, I am more on the caller side. DNA is a genetic code, and there is information theory research being done on it. I would have rebutted in a simpler way: "what makes you believe that a code cannot emerge from natural processes? Why does it have to be God?". His answer is that a sequence implies design... But failed to demonstrate why that would be the case.
This is every bit as dumb as confusing a map for the place it describes LOL
If i have a million random letters and throw them on a big floor, some of them will land as words, some may even land as a sentence. i will select the words and sentences, but ignore the rest.
nature works in the same way. it throws a lot of ingrediences on the floor, some lands as building blocks for life, nature picks those building blocks and ignore the rest. the building blocks are then thrown on the floor, and some create a primitive form of life, the rest are ignored, we and nature picks what is usefull because it viable and understandable. Nature is random and coincidence in its beginning, order is a work in progress.
A walking, talking pro chooise comercial
Victor... one of the worst callers in axp-world history.
It’s literally just chemicals. It’s not a code.
"Junk DNA" is a misnomer and the exact opposite of what it could do.
DNA has to be coiled to fit and for cell division. Much of that DNA does is provide scaffolding....for the parts of the DNA that are genes which are expressed as proteins.
I think maybe a more productive comparison for DNA code might be the periodic table rather than reaching for rocks.
Although technically I guess that's just another way of reaching to rocks...
Anyway.
In order to describe the elements we found we named them, observed their composition and traits, and using those traits and compositions we found placed them into a pattern we found useful.
This is what we did with gene sequencing.
Even if junk DNA has no effect itself, it might act as a sort of timer delaying certain chemical reactions or filling space so used DNA is in the position it needs to be to work.
And that still can happen via natural selection.
17:24 he's talking out his ass.
8:31
With zero irony he suggests junk dna implies intelligent design.
Is that Victor u go?
" they are excluding the junk DNA"
I have never heard in my entire life. Anyone make this argument probably because it's extraordinarily bad.
Never heard anyone say that they exclude any kind of DNA when doing DNA comparison between humans and chimpanzees. That is absolutely a claim that this dude pulled right out of his butt
Veterinarian was funny
It did seem like he got the idea though. Yes. DNA isnt code in any sense that you would describe a code. Its simply representing something with something else that is easier to relate to.
Just like in computer code. You have up to the number 16 in many programming languages but since there isnt a single digit for 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 or 16 we replace those numbers with letters. But youre computer doesnt actually have any of those stored anywhere. Its still just either a voltage or no voltage in every cell of every part of any memory.
But instead of looking at a rather long sequence of changes between zero to 5 volts, we assign the various sequences with either a number or a letter. Much easier to understand.
🔎 Your Bite-Sized Digest
The discussion centers around the topic of intelligent design and the perceived connection between DNA and a coded language.
🔑 Key Points
0:45: The DNA sequence is argued to be a "code" that implies intelligent design, similar to how an alphabet or computer code requires an intelligent source.
6:00: The ability to recognize patterns or assign meaning to things does not necessarily mean they were created by an intelligent source. Recognizing patterns is different from creating a language.
8:07: DNA is not a language, it is a complex acid that we have assigned characters to in order to study and understand it better.
9:40: A "sequence" implies intentional design, but that does not automatically apply to the DNA sequence.
10:42: The complexity of DNA is not fully comprehended, so drawing conclusions about its origins is problematic.
15:48: Evolutionary claims about DNA similarities between humans and chimpanzees may exclude the "junk DNA" that is not fully understood.
18:30: Relying on unspecified "they" claims without identifying the sources is unproductive.
19:56: Vetting sources and consulting experts would be a more constructive approach than making unsupported claims.
The caller is flat-out lying about the (lack of) relationship between human and chimpanzee DNA.
No that is called Signal theory. It is no necessarily an intelligent bring, it is only a pattern recognizion system that can do the same thing. And we know exactly how such systems evolve.
I this was the gong show almost every caller would be gonged off in less than 2 minutes. These god apologists are unbelievable the way they use dishonesty, ignorance and stupidity in their arguments lol.
Is God making sure that water always freezes at 0c
The white space between sentences in a book contains no message.
Could you read a book without that white space?
These people just LOVE to latch onto certain words that Scientists use to explain a difficult concept to the regular "Working Person", so they'll use the word "Code" or "Sequence" to describe what DNA is and what it does, so then people like Ken Hamm latch onto that and claim "SEE?!!?!?! It's a CODE!!!! It's a SEQUENCE!!!" That means Intelligent DESIGN!!!" without understanding WHY the Scientists used that particular word. Good lord they're so dumb.
Dunning Kruger strikes again?
Because the sun gives Earth warmth, light, photosynthesis, vitamin D, stability in space, oceanic evaporation for cloud formation, and other benefits -- and has been doing so for billions of years, with no need for refueling, maintenance, or repairs. We know it's was wondrously and intelligently made for the benefit of Earth. In the same way, Earth has many characteristics that would be extremely unlikely if it came about randomly. For example to be so extremely supportive of life.
No.
@@reefhog Yes. Earth supports life. It's extremely well adapted for life in thousands of ways that are certainly well thought out.
Well as itcwas describedcthere is a difference between Junk DNA and Garbage. Junk DNA are shelfes with possible useful staff that has no meaning at the Moment, it is their tinker Box but if you try to throw it away the tinkerer is extremly angry at you for a reason. It might be useful but at zhe Moment it has no meaning. But this might change. But creative or intelligent Designer things it is garage. But nature tinkers.
The title made me click - but just to read the comments which I did for fun.
These tell me what I expected I would think if I played any of the video. There really is no point in even trying to debate with someone who refuses to gather information and process it to form their own opinions.
Vic "Flat earth".
DNA is not a code: we human APPLIED a code to explain specifically what particular genes and proteins actually do chemically. It is entirely formed of chemical elements, and those chemical elements do chemistry, not software coding!!
Exactly.
Good discussion, just one bit of advice to avoid talking over one another when responding. Utilize a baton system where the rule is, you may only respond when you are in possession of the baton, otherwise you must stay silent. Of course it doesn't have to be a baton, just substitute anything else in place. I see frustration in your duo fighting to get in words but being talked over by your partner who is supposed to be support for one another.
The best energy consumption system that Designer God came up with has smelly, stinky poop as the output. Any mechanical engineer would be fired for this ridiculous choice.
He defines a code as a language created by intelligent agents to communicate with each other...who are the intelligent beings communicating through DNA??? 🥴
Junk DNA is not useless it is what allows for genetic drift and evolution as a whole preventing corruption and the brake down of geans from a single generation or mutation
Obviously some of the "designs" are not all that intelligent. Can anyone think of anything better than poop?
Maybe there's a bunch of different Gods with different objectives. That would explain the odd things in the universe.
Most theists listening to this show must have a little doubt … if not time would be better spent studying their favorite book.
This dude doesn't understand the word "analogy."
Goddamnit now I want a sandwich
Be exalted, O Lord, in Your own strength!
We will sing and praise Your power.
The circular issue is that god is unprovable
If you include non-coding DNA for measuring genetic similarity, then humans would be significantly different from other closely-related humans. The percentage similarity you'd come up with would be meaningless.
We don't "assume" all that DNA would match - that's just a strawman that shows that our dear caller has no idea what he's talking about. It's literally the exact opposite of that - we know it's too different even within the same species, and given that it seems to have no function, that's exactly why we exclude it.
(This comment is based on my vague recollection of actual biologists talking about this, so it's possible that I got something wrong.)