Here is a quick run down of what to look for when looking at legit Damascus blades versus the fake flea market laser etched crap. Follow me on Steemit.com @HarleyMechanix
The problem I've encountered with these imported Damascus knives is they are usually not properly heat treated if you try to snap one to see it's inside it's more likely to bend and the lamination separate. The kind of Steel are using in many of these countries is very subpar and almost impossible to actually put a decent Edge on
kinda , depends on if your talking about real , real Damascus , AKA Wootz Steel, or Pattern welded steel vs pattern acid etched steel. Wootz steel made in India was sold in the west in Damascus. real real Damascus is only in collections and museums. thou Alfred Pendray did figure out how wootz steel is made. there is a documentary on him and it I suggest a watch. it is amazing how real Damascus they don't make the pattern, it is made by the process. it is not layered.
As soon as he said that after saying about being legit I thought..... hmmmmm, if you knew anything about steel you’d have picked that out. I know sod all but from forged in fire I know Damascus steel has sod all to do with coming from Syria.....
The strangest thing is the guys who he says import knives claimed it’s made in Syria in Damascus. It’s what the type of knife is called. Its not actually that they’re from Damascus, but it sounds like someone would say that if he wanted to sell it. This is not me making any claims about the quality of the knives shown in the video.
Thanks for the info. You can do the same with wood furniture where you cannot see the edge of the wood - check both sides and if the wood grain is pretty close on both sides, you most likely have solid wood, not plywood.
Ok what you are looking at is a common nickel steel with a presumably high carbon steel, two types and a fold amount of roughly 80-200 layers. all of your pieces are acid etched which gives you that pattern. However if you were to take a 1.5 carbon steel with wrought iron, you wouldnt need an etch to show it, but the colors wouldn't be white and black but two relatively soft grays. that pattern you are using is from a continuous stack meaning that the entire billet was used start to finish and you are tracing the lines. This isn't a valid identification because many smiths will even reuse scrap pieces with other pieces, or add other layers when the billet gets too small. if you had say four strips of 100 layers from different billets they would each have different patterns within the pattern and along a cut the lines would change, just as well the best blades have a soft welded core in the tang instead of the same damascus in the handle, meaning everything you have there is relatively low quality and over priced. another thing is that a piece with 10000 layers and say four different alloys will not readily show a continuous pattern the way you are looking at it. Another test I recommend from cleaning my boyfriend's knives is that a file will show you the quench and temper of the blade as well as the hardness differences in your weld lines. a quality blade must be quenched and tempered and oddly even a barely mild steel like 1045 when quenched and tempered will fuck up a knife made of expensive quality steel with just a temper. You did get it right that if you polish the knife enough your etch will vanish as that pattern in the etch is exhibited by the acid only on the surface. Another thing is the technique is called damascus but it doesnt have to be from Syria, historically the Syrians smithed the steel but they didnt "MAKE" the steel, it was imported from india where it was wraught into billets there. I recommend buying bricks, charcoal, a metal tube from home depo and a blow drier and making a forge then trying to fold steel yourself before you make a video, you got everything wrong.
Lol my son picked up one like these at a swap meet. Bent the tip throwing it. Took a mark at 45hrc. Popped the handle normalized, quenched. Same crap. Probably 1030c Plate steel.
What he has is called pattern welded steel and most of it is crap, there are a few people who make very good & expensive custom pattern welded steels and even a few brands of very good & very expensive pattern welded titanium (like timascus or mokuti) all of which is big in the full custom knife market but actual wootz steel, made mostly in India & Damascus, is crucible steel. The pattern of real wootz is like the jumbled rainbow squiggles on a soap bubble and in real wootz steel no cutting and rewelding is required. There are some very informative documentaries on the work of A.B.S Master Bladesmith & former A.B.S. President Alfred Pendray did on recreating modern wootz steel. You can watch them on CZcams, I rather enjoyed them.
Robert Deskins If we are thinking about the same video it had me totally fascinated all the way through. I’ve never seen Damascus in the same light since, though I do appreciate the artistry of some bladesmith's version of it.
I bought a Damascus steel pocket knife ,I paid with 25.00 or 45.00 ,can't remember ,I found a small crack on mine just above the sharp part I dress the crack out with a diamond file ,have you found any of your knife with any tiny cracks ,and if you did how did you fix it ,
Real true Damascus is wootz steel. Made from iron ore smelted in a clay crucible in low temps. What you have is forge welded steel or sometimes called pattern welded steel. watch this video. czcams.com/video/OP8PCkcBZU4/video.html
Thank you for the video, thought I got a fake but was surprised, checked what ya said, saw no pattern on the edge, but then I did see it on the other side and some towards the hilt that matched
I’ve made knives out of filed but never use Damascus steel I have a question if I buy a piece of Damascus steel with the pattern on And make the knife will I lose the Damascus pattern or is there a way to save the pattern
Nice video. I did not read the comments so I’m not sure if this jas been said. On the spine of a lot of Damascus you will only see lines , like the grain of wood. The pattern you. See is not from folds. To make this easier I will give a brief how it’s made. So you fake (3)pieces of 2x6 high carbon and (2) 3x6 low carbon steel . Stack them alternating. Forged weld then all together and forge the length for 6 to 12” hit cut 1/2 way trough at the 6” length . Fold ontoto itself so it’s back to 6” hit now it has 10 layers . Fold another 5-6 Times so you end up with 320-649 layers From a total of 6-7 folds. 5x2=10 10x2= 20......so on. If yuh were to etch the billet it would look like normal steel .think of it like a book. You need to expose those layers to get the cool pattern we all look for. So what you do is drill holes or twist and slice to give a star pattern. The possibilities are endless. So most of the time the spin like like parallel lines. So calling the pattern folds is incorrect . What it is , is the white of the high carbon steel contrasting the exposed layers of the Low carbon steel. Most makers stick around 500 layers . So the layers are thick enough to see and as I showed earlier. It was not folded 500 times. I hope this helps.
I just bought one of those knives last week in New Hampshire at a gun store with the same exact mark on the handle for $45. I know it's pattern welded Steel which we call Damascus in the US but it looks pretty cool.
I just brought my 1st Damascus steel knife, and even through it has the patteren in the spine file work I got 3 sizable spots where I have no Damascus patteren. How can I tell if this is real or fake Damascus?
You don't know what you're talking about. All 5 of the ones you have there are acid etched pattern-welded blades, yet you said "if it was acid etched or a laser-engraved knife, it wouldn't really look like that." Acid etching is HOW they make that pattern show up: the acid turns the high-carbon low-Nickel content steel dark and leaves the high-carbon high-Nickel content silvery. Also, those aren't what is referred to as "real Damascus," either... even if they were made in Damascus, Syria: they are "pattern-welded," which is commonly referred to by the uneducated as "Damascus" because it looks similar to what REAL Damascus looks like... and what you call "fake Damascus" is an imitation of the imitations. Real Damascus is a monosteel blade made from crucible steel that has Vanadium in it, causing tiny patterns in it that are nowhere as bold, thick, long, or consistent as the patterns in your pattern-welded blades. I could go on all day correcting the misinformation you've put out with your ignorance here, but I don't want to be a dick, so I'll just end it here by saying to please learn more about the subject before you continue presenting yourself as an "expert" to make money flipping cheap pattern-welded foreign shit.
If you've ever seen true Damascus (not the modern pattern-welded steel that gets commonly referred to as "Damascus"), you'll see that it's a completely different kind of appearance. It's not really a "pattern" in real Damascus, because it's random instances of carbides forming between the steel and the carbon during the cooling process, making the surface appear "watery." It's hard to accurately describe the look, but it's distinctly different than pattern-welded steel, especially because the "lines" in it are very short, because they're just randomly created, unlike the lines in pattern-welded steel, which are a different layer of Nickel-Steel that is sandwiched between layers of high-carbon Steel, so the lines in pattern-welded "Damascus" are continuous and long, whereas the "lines" in true Damascus are more like a short wave that abruptly ends. The best way for you to learn how to tell the difference is to watch a documentary here on CZcams about Al Pendray and his "Wootz Steel," which is the modern recreation of true Damascus, wherein they show lots of examples. And to see lots of examples of what typical modern pattern-welded Damascus looks like for contrast, check out a CZcamsr named Alex Steele (he's a bladesmith who shows the process and end results of making many variations of modern pattern-welded blades).
What you wrote corresponds with what I know. I just think you should express yourself more politely. Referring to the people who don’t know about exotic knives as “uneducated” is just rude.
@@StopFear If this were just a conversation with a random person who likes knives, I would be VERY polite and understanding of people's lack of knowledge... but this is a guy ripping people off selling piece of shit Syrian junk that he overprices by a factor of ten and tries to con them by using impressive terms that people know are supposed to mean "high quality," but aren't discerning or educated enough about the process to know that they're being lied to.
And the polished steel on the tang cutting off at the end of the blade is due to doing most of the shaping work on the scales after they're pinned and epoxied on to the tang. Trying to preserve the pattern around the tang is a headache, you have to generate a perfect fit before everything is glued up which takes skill and time. It appears the makers of those knives have SOME skill but not much time to work. The fitup is rough and the grinds are rough but if the steel is good quality and heat treated properly then there's some value to be had at a low enough price point.
$150?! Every week you can get similar ones on Ebay for $30 easily- shipped. Even if it's folded steel that's been acid etched to show the pattern (which is damascus), that's irrelevant, it's a total craps shoot when it comes to whether or not it was quenched and tempered properly. Even the Japanese masters lose like 30% of their blades.
Pattern welding is not the same as Damascus, there is no such thing as fake Damascus, there can be etched blade patterns but pattern welding is pattern welding...
And everyone knows pattern welded and forged layers then etched in acid is known as damascus. Depending on the skill of the knife maker.and quality of material used is what makes a good knife. Hard but not too hard. Or too soft. Its a balance. Take into consideration the work investment In a piece. And the exchange rate from dollar to rupee.
The edge looks like an angled bevel that doesnt come close to blending into the hollow grind. For the price, I can buy many many utility knives from home Depot or some other store that sells cheap garbage but charges you for looks of the knives ( Most American Companies.)
Everything he showed is fake. Real Damascus isn't pattern welded. It is a mono steel and uses techniques that precipitate carbides out of the high carbon steel matrix that form a visible pattern. Hard as carbide but strong as good high carbon steel. What he is talking about is using acid etch to fake pattern welding that fakes the Damascus pattern.
Not Damascus though, "damascene" - Damascus has a much more interesting figuring due to the growth of dendritic carbon and carbide inclusions and is a very different material metallurgically, e.g. it contains graphene plates, carbon nanotubes.
Damascus, the art of forge welding two steels together. doesn't matter if both steels are garbage. a GOOD Damascus blade will be made out of 15n20 mixed with 1095 high carbon. almost all damascus patterns are brought out by an acid etch. you should see a damascus blade made with copper, gorgeous. if you do enough folds, when the copper blade edge breaks away you end up with crazy sharp micro serrations of hardened steel on the edge. the cutting ability is fantastic
I was waiting for the comparison with fake Damascus knives, but didn't see any! A few shots of Laser etched knives would have been good to show the obvious differences. I don't care about the comments below stating that these are not Damascus knives, I believe they are but only poor quality.
What we usually call "Damascus" is simply pattern-welded steel composed of two different steels. Personally I do not want to see the pattern crossing the cutting edge, which is typical of many commercial mass-produced genuine pattern-welded blades. The means you have two steels with distinctly different properties in the edge, which can affect performance including edge retention and hardness. Ideally a pattern welded blade can actually show a genuine pattern, which may be folded around a high quality steel that makes up the edge. The grain is enhanced by soaking them in a mild acid. Even a soda like Pepsi or Coke will to the trick. A good knife is heat treated, hardened, and drawn properly.
All of hose shown are sub par quality. Grey muddy etch, lower contrast than properly hardened steel. Basically they sre 10-45$ each and basically are only really good for letter openers.
Those are pattern welded steel blades. That process makes a very decent blade. A blade made from a single billet of crucible steel is much more durable and flexible. If you know the process and have access to iron ore that contains the minute amounts of vanadium required, you can get wootz steel. The process of making wootz steel is daunting and exacting. Even the process for making crucible steel can end in disaster if you don’t know what your doing, and don’t have patient finesse. Tempered high carbon steel makes wonderful blades also. I have many examples of Anza’s knives. They are excellent blades that lend themselves to a very sharp edge. I would purchase knives with pattern welded blades like those. If the steel is good, they would produce a durable blade that holds a very nice edge.
The Damascus area of Syria was where Europeans first bought the steel. It was from a group in the area of India and Pakistan. The steel and original steel and process was called Wurtz (sp?). The true tradition was lost to time. There is a process of folding steel and carbon about 50 to 120 folds and hammering. That gives the unique pattern. Some people that stamp steel bumpers and etches patterns with acids, etc. You don't want perfect etching. Real Damascus from the Las 200 to 300 years comes from metal pros in India, Pakistan, and surrounding tribal areas. Many are great, but some are trashy ripp-offs. Let the buyers beware. Metallurgy groups are studying ancient Damascuss and newer Damascus to find the right elements in proper proportion and what heat would be needed. 1,000 year old Damascus blades are hard to find and most don't want the blades cut up and subjected to tests. Would you give up a $1000,000 dagger on a possibility science may learn something. Most museums and private collectors refuse. Except the near Damascus carbon steel and find tests to eliminate cheap fake. I have about 50 damascus knives, most from a reputable dealer. 10 are sketchy and poor grade metal. Buy from a dealer and if the blades hold or if her offers money or trade, that goes along way. If a simple kit ever comes along I'd buy one. Syria is not (in my opinion) is NOT the best place for this steel and blades. Americans are now forging Damascus in the states. These are usually true craftsman who studied for years learning to forge good steel for knives, swords, and other steel items. Give them a chance after reading reviews. I've been wrong before and will be wrong again somewhere down the line. Peace, W
I made knives when I was a teen. I used leaf springs as the material. They were unbreakable and would hold a razor edge. Damascus is for show not for effectiveness.
Leaf springs are made typically, from an alloy steel categorised by the American National Steel Institute as "5160". This is a non-carbon alloy steel containing small amounts of other metals such as molybdynum and vanadium... Guess what the ingredients in REAL "wootz" based Damascus blades are? Your 5160 blades basically differ from Damascus in having a more predictable mix, more predictable properties, and being a damn sight easier and cheaper to source the materials for now the Wootz ore mines are played out... Guess why they stopped making "Real Damascus Steel"?
none of them are the same because they are individually handmade. The pattern of Damascus will only show after it's polished if it's soaked in acid. Acid dissolves the weaker steel and leave the lines.
Great video , love your explanation . I bought a set of Damascus knives for kitchen , set of 8 for $ 150 Yes I know what I paid for but there great fake and work well ,o got a free knife holder to 😂😂😂😂😂
Um... just so you know, “real” Damascus is ALWAYS etched in acid. That’s what makes the pattern come out. Has to be heat treated, acid etched and then hand sanded to make the pattern show
If you had Domascus steel it would be going to a Museum of a extremely wealth collector. There are many theories on how Damascus is made and where the metal came with researchs making what they think is Damascus steel but nobody knows.
so true with a couple comments below this is all pattern welded steel not damascus. There are no folds in true Damascus it is a crucibal steel ie... Wootz damascus
Pattern weld can look pretty awesome, the middle knife with the thick dark and light bands is definitely pattern welded as is the curved one on the left. Wootz Damascus is structurally different than pattern welded Damascus, the Wootz Damascus used an uncommon iron ore which had a tiny amount of Vanadium that forms carbide fibers which was what lent to the real damascus blades being so sharp and durable. Pattern welding layers iron of different carbon and if the folding is done right it can look like wootz damascus steel. I'm no expert on it (few are) so some of the finer patterns could be closer to the real stuff. The real damascus did not get its pattern from folding but because of their method of making crucible steel and the Vanadium iron ore.
There are different types of Damascus. True Damascus is wootz: a lost recipe so it can't be made anymore. Modern: pattern welded, its fake, but has the Damascus look. Then there's fake, or etched: a material that if it was sanded down the pattern is lost.
Sorrells is mostly right, but there have been a lot of advances in our understanding of the process by which the historical Damascus steel was made in recent years. The late Al Pendry has come closest, and found that the source of the iron ore was important as the historical Damascus contained between 0.01-0.08% Vanadium (which is pretty high Vanadium content for iron ore). That Vanadium has a significant effect on the way the carbides form during heat treatment and thermocycling.
Are the Damascus Steel blades you create made from the original Damascus steel recipe which was used in swords in the mideval period of time? I had heard that the original Damascus steel recipe was lost and has never been duplicated? Have you been able to find the recipe for the ancient Damascus steel, or do you make your own recipe for Damascus steel?
big hint that a blade isn't Damascus steel, is that it's supposedly from Damascus (the place). Although the city may at one point have been know for producing the steel, it definitely no longer is, and a blade made there has no reason to be better than a blade made anywhere else.
Recently bought one tht was originally $200 but lowered to $60…the handle is def cheap plastic (which is not what was advertised) but I literally can’t tell if the blade is real. The spine shows layers rather than patterns n there’s some spots tht have been polished away…it’s fine if it fake, I got what I paid for but I jus can’t tell for the life of me 😭
If the spine shows layers then it’s real if you want to get the pattern back on the parts that are missing Acid etch it and they will be restored if it’s real
thegeneral123 lol do you know where its origin came? Arab record said it came from hind area but the problem is no indian nor pakistani know about this technology. This show to us it came from east hind area which is south east asia.
Shanks on cheap damascus blades have regular steel welded on for shank . You can not polish out damascus patterns. The steel under handle material is welded to the damascus to save more expensive materials.
I agree with Marcus, pattern weld, NOT wootz witch is what true Damascus is made from, look at the pattern it is very obvious cheap overseas knives,also Damascus is not made from cable,try shaving with one
Waji sells these. He also sells blanks, so you can do whatever you want. Pakistan. Many makers are there, and how reliable? Waji's sheaths are high quality. Amazed what I got from him. I don't know the blade quality (tempering, different hardnesses, etc, he can't answer, probably just poor and not up to speed), but amazing knives Found all the hallmarks on the knives Many of his look better and knife and sheath, about 200 to 400 bucks. 800 bucks, you gotta be kidding me
I was really convinced that I got ripped off all my knife that I just bought at the gun show. The guy was saying he built it himself he made it himself he had a bunch of them. But now that I watch your video I’m convinced that it is real Damascus steel. I looked for all the telltale signs and pretty much it’s the real deal. He was asking for $150 for the blade and it’s about the same size as you show here on the video. I talked him down all the way to 75. Because I had a feeling that it was fake but now I’m convinced that it is real I’m 100 % sure
They all look like they are standard folded steel knives, none of them are Real Damascus. Just patterned steel. Real Damascus doesn't have those patterns, if they did then they were a failure during forging.
They recently were able to duplicate the old-type Damascus steel. That steel has only one ore ("Wooz" iron from several areas in the mid-East and India) and composition throughout, with the pattern being formed by the large-size segregating of the steel into two (more?) intertwined crystals during the quenching/tempering process (a common tough "Pearlite" steel crystal does the same thing, but the pattern is microscopic). They found that the steel had to be very clean (almost no sulfur or phosphorus, for example) due to using very-high-temperature sealed crucibles to force the impurities to float to the top of the molten iron. The old steels had a rather high carbon content to allow good hardenability, close to 1%, compared to most current steels, based on "mild" low-carbon steel with various additives. However, even then no pattern was visible in most test samples. Very careful analysis finally found that you only get the true Damascus patterns (there are several depending on details of the ore and smithing process) when you have 0.002-0.008% VANADIUM in the metal, which turns out to be in the Wooz ore samples and old Damascus blades, too. Nobody had ever thought of vanadium in such low concentrations having anything to do with such crystal formations, but metallurgy is still a growing art/science and even tiny catalysts/impurities can make significant differences (the ancient Wooz ore smelter people did not know what vanadium was, obviously).
Sorry the only place on earth for Damascus steel is Woots/Damascus not India but raw iron was brought to India on the silk roads and sold to the rich to make weapons and armor. The pattern steel you see today isn't real Damascus its just a name someone who thought he new what really Damascus looked like. If you have ever seen real Damascus you would be very surprised the difference. Real Woots Damascus steel died out in the late 1800s. It a lost art. It's very hard to produce. There is only one man who ever made real Damascus and he lives in Florida and he used raw iron from a mine outside of Damascus. Men from the middle east came to learn his processes and to see if they can learn how to produce it once again. Thanks so much for sharing. This is how people learn the truth how It's made
The one with a finger ring is a Karambit, It is meant to be carried with the edge down so that it can be drawn with the index finger through the ring and the point at the other end of the hand to strike as if you are punching. The point is best driven into the neck of your opponent at the carotid artery then ripped forward and out. Sharpen the outside of the curve and you can use it for a return strike.
The problem I've encountered with these imported Damascus knives is they are usually not properly heat treated if you try to snap one to see it's inside it's more likely to bend and the lamination separate. The kind of Steel are using in many of these countries is very subpar and almost impossible to actually put a decent Edge on
thanks for your comment. it's good to know.
I half expect someone that says their favourite thing in the world is knives, would actually do some research on what types of knives they have.
Their a lot of ignorance out there. Just to lazy to study on it. The information is available just take the time to read it.
Is this a joke?
@@armenarakelian9876 Importing fake damascus and making a video saying how legit it is? This isnt funny!
Not fake Damascus but he doesn't know what a kirambit is
Lez go another Brony
Damascus steel has nothing to do with Damascus Syria
kinda , depends on if your talking about real , real Damascus , AKA Wootz Steel, or Pattern welded steel vs pattern acid etched steel.
Wootz steel made in India was sold in the west in Damascus. real real Damascus is only in collections and museums.
thou Alfred Pendray did figure out how wootz steel is made. there is a documentary on him and it I suggest a watch. it is amazing how real Damascus they don't make the pattern, it is made by the process. it is not layered.
As soon as he said that after saying about being legit I thought..... hmmmmm, if you knew anything about steel you’d have picked that out. I know sod all but from forged in fire I know Damascus steel has sod all to do with coming from Syria.....
Yes it has
It was produced only in Damascus in Syria in middle ages.
But the secret of Damascus steel has gone for ever.
This widely forged in Pakistan not from Syria, you may see a lot of Pakistani selling the same steel pattern.
If this is Damascus, my kitchen knife is made out of Valyrian steel...
Most likely made in china ha ha .
The strangest thing is the guys who he says import knives claimed it’s made in Syria in Damascus. It’s what the type of knife is called. Its not actually that they’re from Damascus, but it sounds like someone would say that if he wanted to sell it. This is not me making any claims about the quality of the knives shown in the video.
I have an adamantium machete aswell.
@@StopFear damascus steel was originally made in Damascus, Syria
Actually as soon you forge 2 steelplates together its technically damascus. Its not fake its more like good ones versus bs ones
100% crapmascus from crapistan
Thanks for the info. You can do the same with wood furniture where you cannot see the edge of the wood - check both sides and if the wood grain is pretty close on both sides, you most likely have solid wood, not plywood.
Ok what you are looking at is a common nickel steel with a presumably high carbon steel, two types and a fold amount of roughly 80-200 layers. all of your pieces are acid etched which gives you that pattern. However if you were to take a 1.5 carbon steel with wrought iron, you wouldnt need an etch to show it, but the colors wouldn't be white and black but two relatively soft grays. that pattern you are using is from a continuous stack meaning that the entire billet was used start to finish and you are tracing the lines. This isn't a valid identification because many smiths will even reuse scrap pieces with other pieces, or add other layers when the billet gets too small. if you had say four strips of 100 layers from different billets they would each have different patterns within the pattern and along a cut the lines would change, just as well the best blades have a soft welded core in the tang instead of the same damascus in the handle, meaning everything you have there is relatively low quality and over priced. another thing is that a piece with 10000 layers and say four different alloys will not readily show a continuous pattern the way you are looking at it. Another test I recommend from cleaning my boyfriend's knives is that a file will show you the quench and temper of the blade as well as the hardness differences in your weld lines. a quality blade must be quenched and tempered and oddly even a barely mild steel like 1045 when quenched and tempered will fuck up a knife made of expensive quality steel with just a temper. You did get it right that if you polish the knife enough your etch will vanish as that pattern in the etch is exhibited by the acid only on the surface. Another thing is the technique is called damascus but it doesnt have to be from Syria, historically the Syrians smithed the steel but they didnt "MAKE" the steel, it was imported from india where it was wraught into billets there.
I recommend buying bricks, charcoal, a metal tube from home depo and a blow drier and making a forge then trying to fold steel yourself before you make a video, you got everything wrong.
Lol my son picked up one like these at a swap meet. Bent the tip throwing it. Took a mark at 45hrc. Popped the handle normalized, quenched. Same crap. Probably 1030c Plate steel.
What he has is called pattern welded steel and most of it is crap, there are a few people who make very good & expensive custom pattern welded steels and even a few brands of very good & very expensive pattern welded titanium (like timascus or mokuti) all of which is big in the full custom knife market but actual wootz steel, made mostly in India & Damascus, is crucible steel.
The pattern of real wootz is like the jumbled rainbow squiggles on a soap bubble and in real wootz steel no cutting and rewelding is required.
There are some very informative documentaries on the work of A.B.S Master Bladesmith & former A.B.S. President Alfred Pendray did on recreating modern wootz steel.
You can watch them on CZcams, I rather enjoyed them.
Koop
Robert Deskins If we are thinking about the same video it had me totally fascinated all the way through. I’ve never seen Damascus in the same light since, though I do appreciate the artistry of some bladesmith's version of it.
Wootz damascus
HI Awesome knives are you still selling and are those the only styles
and how do I go about purchasing one you have in Damascus.
Absolutely Beautiful ,Thank you for sharing this information helped a lot .great video!
I bought a Damascus steel pocket knife ,I paid with 25.00 or 45.00 ,can't remember ,I found a small crack on mine just above the sharp part I dress the crack out with a diamond file ,have you found any of your knife with any tiny cracks ,and if you did how did you fix it ,
This video is really helpful, thanks!
Real true Damascus is wootz steel. Made from iron ore smelted in a clay crucible in low temps. What you have is forge welded steel or sometimes called pattern welded steel. watch this video. czcams.com/video/OP8PCkcBZU4/video.html
Thank you for the video, thought I got a fake but was surprised, checked what ya said, saw no pattern on the edge, but then I did see it on the other side and some towards the hilt that matched
got a dagger for 60$
I’ve made knives out of filed but never use Damascus steel I have a question if I buy a piece of Damascus steel with the pattern on And make the knife will I lose the Damascus pattern or is there a way to save the pattern
Just re- emerse in acid when you finish. The do you scales. A lot of asshole know it alls here. How hard to sharpen a file knife. And is it brittle?
looking for a damascus knife do you have a website?
Thank you for the good job. FYI, the last blade, the claw-shaped one, it's a classic "karambit", even though I don't think it's an original one.
Did he just say to watch out for Acid etched damascus? Da Fuq.
what do you sell them on if you still do
Thanks for vid. I'm looking for a Damascus kneck knife. Very informative. I like those knives also in your video
Hi sir 😊
Nice video. I did not read the comments so I’m not sure if this jas been said. On the spine of a lot of Damascus you will only see lines , like the grain of wood. The pattern you. See is not from folds. To make this easier I will give a brief how it’s made.
So you fake (3)pieces of 2x6 high carbon and (2) 3x6 low carbon steel . Stack them alternating. Forged weld then all together and forge the length for 6 to 12” hit cut 1/2 way trough at the 6” length . Fold ontoto itself so it’s back to 6” hit now it has 10 layers . Fold another 5-6 Times so you end up with 320-649 layers From a total of 6-7 folds. 5x2=10 10x2= 20......so on. If yuh were to etch the billet it would look like normal steel .think of it like a book. You need to expose those layers to get the cool pattern we all look for. So what you do is drill holes or twist and slice to give a star pattern. The possibilities are endless. So most of the time the spin like like parallel lines. So calling the pattern folds is incorrect . What it is , is the white of the high carbon steel contrasting the exposed layers of the Low carbon steel. Most makers stick around 500 layers . So the layers are thick enough to see and as I showed earlier. It was not folded 500 times. I hope this helps.
I just bought one of those knives last week in New Hampshire at a gun store with the same exact mark on the handle for $45. I know it's pattern welded Steel which we call Damascus in the US but it looks pretty cool.
What store? I live in New Hampshire!
I just brought my 1st Damascus steel knife, and even through it has the patteren in the spine file work I got 3 sizable spots where I have no Damascus patteren. How can I tell if this is real or fake Damascus?
Its just polished out. If you can not only see but feel the pattern, then its real damascus.
You don't know what you're talking about. All 5 of the ones you have there are acid etched pattern-welded blades, yet you said "if it was acid etched or a laser-engraved knife, it wouldn't really look like that." Acid etching is HOW they make that pattern show up: the acid turns the high-carbon low-Nickel content steel dark and leaves the high-carbon high-Nickel content silvery. Also, those aren't what is referred to as "real Damascus," either... even if they were made in Damascus, Syria: they are "pattern-welded," which is commonly referred to by the uneducated as "Damascus" because it looks similar to what REAL Damascus looks like... and what you call "fake Damascus" is an imitation of the imitations. Real Damascus is a monosteel blade made from crucible steel that has Vanadium in it, causing tiny patterns in it that are nowhere as bold, thick, long, or consistent as the patterns in your pattern-welded blades. I could go on all day correcting the misinformation you've put out with your ignorance here, but I don't want to be a dick, so I'll just end it here by saying to please learn more about the subject before you continue presenting yourself as an "expert" to make money flipping cheap pattern-welded foreign shit.
So how can I know if I have real Damascus or not? Can I scratch in on a place and see it or how do I do it?
If you've ever seen true Damascus (not the modern pattern-welded steel that gets commonly referred to as "Damascus"), you'll see that it's a completely different kind of appearance. It's not really a "pattern" in real Damascus, because it's random instances of carbides forming between the steel and the carbon during the cooling process, making the surface appear "watery." It's hard to accurately describe the look, but it's distinctly different than pattern-welded steel, especially because the "lines" in it are very short, because they're just randomly created, unlike the lines in pattern-welded steel, which are a different layer of Nickel-Steel that is sandwiched between layers of high-carbon Steel, so the lines in pattern-welded "Damascus" are continuous and long, whereas the "lines" in true Damascus are more like a short wave that abruptly ends. The best way for you to learn how to tell the difference is to watch a documentary here on CZcams about Al Pendray and his "Wootz Steel," which is the modern recreation of true Damascus, wherein they show lots of examples. And to see lots of examples of what typical modern pattern-welded Damascus looks like for contrast, check out a CZcamsr named Alex Steele (he's a bladesmith who shows the process and end results of making many variations of modern pattern-welded blades).
Steve Alford totally agree, but the Nickel-steel stays nice silvery and the high carbon steel etched dark 😅
What you wrote corresponds with what I know. I just think you should express yourself more politely. Referring to the people who don’t know about exotic knives as “uneducated” is just rude.
@@StopFear If this were just a conversation with a random person who likes knives, I would be VERY polite and understanding of people's lack of knowledge... but this is a guy ripping people off selling piece of shit Syrian junk that he overprices by a factor of ten and tries to con them by using impressive terms that people know are supposed to mean "high quality," but aren't discerning or educated enough about the process to know that they're being lied to.
And the polished steel on the tang cutting off at the end of the blade is due to doing most of the shaping work on the scales after they're pinned and epoxied on to the tang. Trying to preserve the pattern around the tang is a headache, you have to generate a perfect fit before everything is glued up which takes skill and time. It appears the makers of those knives have SOME skill but not much time to work. The fitup is rough and the grinds are rough but if the steel is good quality and heat treated properly then there's some value to be had at a low enough price point.
$150?! Every week you can get similar ones on Ebay for $30 easily- shipped. Even if it's folded steel that's been acid etched to show the pattern (which is damascus), that's irrelevant, it's a total craps shoot when it comes to whether or not it was quenched and tempered properly. Even the Japanese masters lose like 30% of their blades.
Your guys still bringing over those knives? I would like to have one.
Thank you so much
What's your thoughts on Pakistan Damascus knife?
pattern welded fakes made from any old crap recycled steel nearby. Pretty ? Pretty useless.
how much are you paying for them ?
What is your online store? Address?
odd how can it be polished out there shud be layers all the way threw :S?
I just got 3 folders from Kershaw in Damascus. I’m pretty stoked.
awesome knives ,i love that karambit
Pattern welding is not the same as Damascus, there is no such thing as fake Damascus, there can be etched blade patterns but pattern welding is pattern welding...
And everyone knows pattern welded and forged layers then etched in acid is known as damascus. Depending on the skill of the knife maker.and quality of material used is what makes a good knife. Hard but not too hard. Or too soft. Its a balance. Take into consideration the work investment In a piece. And the exchange rate from dollar to rupee.
The edge looks like an angled bevel that doesnt come close to blending into the hollow grind. For the price, I can buy many many utility knives from home Depot or some other store that sells cheap garbage but charges you for looks of the knives ( Most American Companies.)
On Damascus steel, if you polish the Damascus it just comes out as polished steel, don’t you have to acid etch it to expose the Damascus pattern?
Yes
How manny people say u look like the guy on gold rush... ?? Lol thank u for vid..
I would be more helpful to show some of the fake ones for comparison - but very helpful. Thanks!
Everything he showed is fake. Real Damascus isn't pattern welded. It is a mono steel and uses techniques that precipitate carbides out of the high carbon steel matrix that form a visible pattern. Hard as carbide but strong as good high carbon steel.
What he is talking about is using acid etch to fake pattern welding that fakes the Damascus pattern.
Thanks for the info I spotted a fake in my collection and it wasn't my 100 dollar colonial
800 bucks for a knife? For a real good sword maybe not so crazy, but whooooooooo.
Not Damascus though, "damascene" - Damascus has a much more interesting figuring due to the growth of dendritic carbon and carbide inclusions and is a very different material metallurgically, e.g. it contains graphene plates, carbon nanotubes.
The one in the middle with the white and brown handle is beautiful
You are beautiful too 😊👌
yes but if your buying a damascus online how can you tell if fake vrs real?
Damascus, the art of forge welding two steels together. doesn't matter if both steels are garbage. a GOOD Damascus blade will be made out of 15n20 mixed with 1095 high carbon. almost all damascus patterns are brought out by an acid etch. you should see a damascus blade made with copper, gorgeous. if you do enough folds, when the copper blade edge breaks away you end up with crazy sharp micro serrations of hardened steel on the edge. the cutting ability is fantastic
you know this man is legit because of his beard
Thanks for the vid. I'm now confident that I have a real modern day Damascus knife.
Marbles advertises a damascus set. Anyone know of they make the real stuff?
They don't make it they buy it and sell it from Pakistanis. If made in America or Germany it would be costly to say the least.
I was waiting for the comparison with fake Damascus knives, but didn't see any! A few shots of Laser etched knives would have been good to show the obvious differences. I don't care about the comments below stating that these are not Damascus knives, I believe they are but only poor quality.
I would stick with T10 or L6 steel and leave it at. Two of the strongest blade material money can buy
The difference between Damascus and dumbasscus
A Bowie style in ancient Syria?
K A R A M B I T K N I F E
What we usually call "Damascus" is simply pattern-welded steel composed of two different steels. Personally I do not want to see the pattern crossing the cutting edge, which is typical of many commercial mass-produced genuine pattern-welded blades. The means you have two steels with distinctly different properties in the edge, which can affect performance including edge retention and hardness. Ideally a pattern welded blade can actually show a genuine pattern, which may be folded around a high quality steel that makes up the edge. The grain is enhanced by soaking them in a mild acid. Even a soda like Pepsi or Coke will to the trick. A good knife is heat treated, hardened, and drawn properly.
All of hose shown are sub par quality. Grey muddy etch, lower contrast than properly hardened steel. Basically they sre 10-45$ each and basically are only really good for letter openers.
Uh huh. Just making things up as we go along are we?
Why do you keep this video online ? You must by now have found out that you are wrong!!!!!
So what, at least he has the balls to leave it up, and let others learn.
you have to have examples of both
Those are pattern welded steel blades. That process makes a very decent blade. A blade made from a single billet of crucible steel is much more durable and flexible. If you know the process and have access to iron ore that contains the minute amounts of vanadium required, you can get wootz steel. The process of making wootz steel is daunting and exacting. Even the process for making crucible steel can end in disaster if you don’t know what your doing, and don’t have patient finesse. Tempered high carbon steel makes wonderful blades also. I have many examples of Anza’s knives. They are excellent blades that lend themselves to a very sharp edge. I would purchase knives with pattern welded blades like those. If the steel is good, they would produce a durable blade that holds a very nice edge.
The Damascus area of Syria was where Europeans first bought the steel. It was from a group in the area of India and Pakistan. The steel and original steel and process was called Wurtz (sp?). The true tradition was lost to time. There is a process of folding steel and carbon about 50 to 120 folds and hammering. That gives the unique pattern. Some people that stamp steel bumpers and etches patterns with acids, etc. You don't want perfect etching. Real Damascus from the Las 200 to 300 years comes from metal pros in India, Pakistan, and surrounding tribal areas. Many are great, but some are trashy ripp-offs. Let the buyers beware. Metallurgy groups are studying ancient Damascuss and newer Damascus to find the right elements in proper proportion and what heat would be needed. 1,000 year old Damascus blades are hard to find and most don't want the blades cut up and subjected to tests. Would you give up a $1000,000 dagger on a possibility science may learn something. Most museums and private collectors refuse. Except the near Damascus carbon steel and find tests to eliminate cheap fake. I have about 50 damascus knives, most from a reputable dealer. 10 are sketchy and poor grade metal. Buy from a dealer and if the blades hold or if her offers money or trade, that goes along way. If a simple kit ever comes along I'd buy one. Syria is not (in my opinion) is NOT the best place for this steel and blades. Americans are now forging Damascus in the states. These are usually true craftsman who studied for years learning to forge good steel for knives, swords, and other steel items. Give them a chance after reading reviews. I've been wrong before and will be wrong again somewhere down the line. Peace, W
Try "resisting" less, and researching more. Then you'll have actual information to share.
Great video, thank you. Greg Chaney in coastal N.C
I made knives when I was a teen. I used leaf springs as the material. They were unbreakable and would hold a razor edge.
Damascus is for show not for effectiveness.
Leaf springs are made typically, from an alloy steel categorised by the American National Steel Institute as "5160". This is a non-carbon alloy steel containing small amounts of other metals such as molybdynum and vanadium...
Guess what the ingredients in REAL "wootz" based Damascus blades are?
Your 5160 blades basically differ from Damascus in having a more predictable mix, more predictable properties, and being a damn sight easier and cheaper to source the materials for now the Wootz ore mines are played out...
Guess why they stopped making "Real Damascus Steel"?
You want to know for sure? Break the you will see the layers or not
none of them are the same because they are individually handmade. The pattern of Damascus will only show after it's polished if it's soaked in acid. Acid dissolves the weaker steel and leave the lines.
Great video , love your explanation . I bought a set of Damascus knives for kitchen , set of 8 for $ 150 Yes I know what I paid for but there great fake and work well ,o got a free knife holder to 😂😂😂😂😂
Um... just so you know, “real” Damascus is ALWAYS etched in acid. That’s what makes the pattern come out. Has to be heat treated, acid etched and then hand sanded to make the pattern show
actualy its heat sand etch sand aint it ? ?
It's not that the pattern is "polished out" on the handle, it was just not acid etched there to show the pattern.
Matthew Falkner maybe it was acid etched first, then polished out.
Aluminum foil + shoe Polish = Damascus
If you had Domascus steel it would be going to a Museum of a extremely wealth collector. There are many theories on how Damascus is made and where the metal came with researchs making what they think is Damascus steel but nobody knows.
so true with a couple comments below this is all pattern welded steel not damascus. There are no folds in true Damascus it is a crucibal steel ie... Wootz damascus
None of those are Damascus, they are pattern welded. these are also cheap pattern welded blades, good luck trying to keep a edge.
I agree with you. I would never do a tube video on something unless I really knew what I was talking about. This video was a fail.
Good eye. None of those blades would last past a single use.
what is "welded" about the pattern? fucking nothing.
Pattern weld can look pretty awesome, the middle knife with the thick dark and light bands is definitely pattern welded as is the curved one on the left. Wootz Damascus is structurally different than pattern welded Damascus, the Wootz Damascus used an uncommon iron ore which had a tiny amount of Vanadium that forms carbide fibers which was what lent to the real damascus blades being so sharp and durable.
Pattern welding layers iron of different carbon and if the folding is done right it can look like wootz damascus steel. I'm no expert on it (few are) so some of the finer patterns could be closer to the real stuff. The real damascus did not get its pattern from folding but because of their method of making crucible steel and the Vanadium iron ore.
There are different types of Damascus. True Damascus is wootz: a lost recipe so it can't be made anymore. Modern: pattern welded, its fake, but has the Damascus look. Then there's fake, or etched: a material that if it was sanded down the pattern is lost.
Best way to know is to watch Walter Sorrells video about Damascus
Sorrells is mostly right, but there have been a lot of advances in our understanding of the process by which the historical Damascus steel was made in recent years. The late Al Pendry has come closest, and found that the source of the iron ore was important as the historical Damascus contained between 0.01-0.08% Vanadium (which is pretty high Vanadium content for iron ore). That Vanadium has a significant effect on the way the carbides form during heat treatment and thermocycling.
Whats one of those worth? Like how much do you sell them for?
Sick beard my dude, I get halfway and it just gets too itchy.
It takes maintenance!! A well taken care of beard us as much work as long hair on your head.
Fake or not I wouldn't buy I use cheap kitchen knives sharpen with diamond steel and they cut just fine
Are the Damascus Steel blades you create made from the original Damascus steel recipe which was used in swords in the mideval period of time? I had heard that the original Damascus steel recipe was lost and has never been duplicated? Have you been able to find the recipe for the ancient Damascus steel, or do you make your own recipe for Damascus steel?
big hint that a blade isn't Damascus steel, is that it's supposedly from Damascus (the place). Although the city may at one point have been know for producing the steel, it definitely no longer is, and a blade made there has no reason to be better than a blade made anywhere else.
That’s called pattern welding my friend. Real Damascus there is no folding there is a mineral in the ore that causes the pattern
Wootz Damascus
The 5th knife Is a Karambit!
or you could easily order them yourself online for about 45-60 bux... just sayin
Recently bought one tht was originally $200 but lowered to $60…the handle is def cheap plastic (which is not what was advertised) but I literally can’t tell if the blade is real. The spine shows layers rather than patterns n there’s some spots tht have been polished away…it’s fine if it fake, I got what I paid for but I jus can’t tell for the life of me 😭
If the spine shows layers then it’s real if you want to get the pattern back on the parts that are missing Acid etch it and they will be restored if it’s real
Thanks for the video showing real damascus. Unfortunately must watch entire video and no example of fake damascus?
Those knives are made in Pakistan. Pattern welded knives from Pakistan.
thegeneral123 lol do you know where its origin came? Arab record said it came from hind area but the problem is no indian nor pakistani know about this technology. This show to us it came from east hind area which is south east asia.
I make my own thats how i can tell, lol
Kind of a defense knife? Uh a karambit
Shanks on cheap damascus blades have regular steel welded on for shank . You can not polish out damascus patterns. The steel under handle material is welded to the damascus to save more expensive materials.
Dave Davis or it was just not put into the acid bath to eat away some of the carbon.
Drop one of these and it will shatter like a glass plate.
I agree with Marcus, pattern weld, NOT wootz witch is what true Damascus is made from, look at the pattern it is very obvious cheap overseas knives,also Damascus is not made from cable,try shaving with one
Waji sells these. He also sells blanks, so you can do whatever you want. Pakistan. Many makers are there, and how reliable? Waji's sheaths are high quality. Amazed what I got from him. I don't know the blade quality (tempering, different hardnesses, etc, he can't answer, probably just poor and not up to speed), but amazing knives
Found all the hallmarks on the knives
Many of his look better and knife and sheath, about 200 to 400 bucks. 800 bucks, you gotta be kidding me
To get exact , they would have to be machine made.
I was really convinced that I got ripped off all my knife that I just bought at the gun show. The guy was saying he built it himself he made it himself he had a bunch of them. But now that I watch your video I’m convinced that it is real Damascus steel. I looked for all the telltale signs and pretty much it’s the real deal. He was asking for $150 for the blade and it’s about the same size as you show here on the video. I talked him down all the way to 75. Because I had a feeling that it was fake but now I’m convinced that it is real I’m 100 % sure
Yea, u paid 170
Even if it's legit it doesn't take much to make technical Damascus which is a far cry from quality Damascus
Oh I spent 30 dollars on LIES
but honestly the blade ain't bad
They all look like they are standard folded steel knives, none of them are Real Damascus. Just patterned steel.
Real Damascus doesn't have those patterns, if they did then they were a failure during forging.
I also made Damascus knives 👍
They recently were able to duplicate the old-type Damascus steel. That steel has only one ore ("Wooz" iron from several areas in the mid-East and India) and composition throughout, with the pattern being formed by the large-size segregating of the steel into two (more?) intertwined crystals during the quenching/tempering process (a common tough "Pearlite" steel crystal does the same thing, but the pattern is microscopic). They found that the steel had to be very clean (almost no sulfur or phosphorus, for example) due to using very-high-temperature sealed crucibles to force the impurities to float to the top of the molten iron. The old steels had a rather high carbon content to allow good hardenability, close to 1%, compared to most current steels, based on "mild" low-carbon steel with various additives. However, even then no pattern was visible in most test samples. Very careful analysis finally found that you only get the true Damascus patterns (there are several depending on details of the ore and smithing process) when you have 0.002-0.008% VANADIUM in the metal, which turns out to be in the Wooz ore samples and old Damascus blades, too. Nobody had ever thought of vanadium in such low concentrations having anything to do with such crystal formations, but metallurgy is still a growing art/science and even tiny catalysts/impurities can make significant differences (the ancient Wooz ore smelter people did not know what vanadium was, obviously).
Thank you very much for the information about the ancient Damascus steel recipe and the ore from which it was made. Jim J.
Sorry the only place on earth for Damascus steel is Woots/Damascus not India but raw iron was brought to India on the silk roads and sold to the rich to make weapons and armor. The pattern steel you see today isn't real Damascus its just a name someone who thought he new what really Damascus looked like. If you have ever seen real Damascus you would be very surprised the difference. Real Woots Damascus steel died out in the late 1800s. It a lost art. It's very hard to produce. There is only one man who ever made real Damascus and he lives in Florida and he used raw iron from a mine outside of Damascus. Men from the middle east came to learn his processes and to see if they can learn how to produce it once again. Thanks so much for sharing. This is how people learn the truth how It's made
OK but you didn't explain how to spot a fake damascus
The one with a finger ring is a Karambit, It is meant to be carried with the edge down so that it can be drawn with the index finger through the ring and the point at the other end of the hand to strike as if you are punching. The point is best driven into the neck of your opponent at the carotid artery then ripped forward and out. Sharpen the outside of the curve and you can use it for a return strike.
would boker make real damascus?
Talk about shit Boker sells shit.