Why You’re Wrong About Damascus Steel (with Steve Schwarzer)
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- čas přidán 22. 12. 2021
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"There's a lot of experts out there, and some of them actually are."
Wise words from a man who knows things.
yeah, that well placed pause after the comma :)
And everyone claiming to make Damascus are NOT experts. Nobody can make real Damascus it's a lost technology. What they make is imitation Damascus.
better said "A lot of people call themselves Experts, only so many truly are"
@@joshportie your source?
@@joshportie It's not really lost, it's crucible steel and they have records of the recipes. It just doesn't pay to make it, there are modern forging tech that produces steel that has al the properties if not better.
Steve is exactly the kind of guy I want to be at some point. Man's the definition of cool old dude.
he's not that old
Have to be a cool young guy first then a cool bloke
@@genekunkel8001 I wouldn't exactly call 75 years old, not that old. That's a, "we'll see if I wake up tomorrow" age.
no he isn't, find someone else. This guys words are full of so many mistakes it isn't funny. It is people like him that have stunted the industry and stopped it from moving forward.
Are there going to be more interviews like this? Nothing wrong with being a historian of your craft.
Sounds like it needs to be a series!
I add my Voice to that idea as well, it would be a nice 'niche' for you to go along side your own Videos. PLEASE think about it. You have an excellent mix of Ability, Respect, Humor, and True Love for the CRAFT, that would make you a GREAT 'Keeper of the Flame', so to speak. Finding and working with people who have more experience and skill NEVER diminishes you, it only makes us better ! I'm glad to see you learned that very important lesson so young, many, sadly, never do.
He's not a historian. He's scammer. His knives are pattern welded knives. Him calling them Damascus is like calling my suitcase Gucci & charging you 5 times more.
“Do the stuff that’s hard, because it makes you grow.” Thanks Steve and Will for this video because I’m living in that difficult season right now.
Hope they made you stronger brother.
me too, man. me too...
"You can't pour knowledge into a broken cup."
Old man's wisdom is still the best. And these days the young guns are willing to learn from the old guys, apply modern material knowledge and share their journey with a broad audience. Like Alec and Will do. And that is very much awesome! 😎👍
I've always enjoyed learning from people like Steve Schwarzer. I'm a chemist by training so listening to him talking about the properties of Bog Iron and bloom-forging kind of excites me because that's the kind of thing I studied, and I know for a fact that there are upper level chemistry courses just dedicated to those sorts of things, and it just kind of drove home a point I've made many times to people about how everything we know is built on hundreds of lifetimes of hard work and experimentation.
So what's the formula for that majestic beard?
@@raimundotorres44 three months of deep depression followed by not shaving for about 3 years. Sadly due to working healthcare I did have to shave it all off
@@ZevVeli Hope you are feeling better
very true as you say everything we know has been built on over millions of lifetimes of experiences and experimentations which paved the way to technological advancements in basically every single way from the stone age all the way to how things are as we see the world today in all ways of life both for the working people and also the younger generation who are yet to get their first job in life after they leave their school years behind then there’s the emergency services and armed forces who have been strengthened over centuries of technological advancements and new knowledge etc. The hospital’s for example after the knowledge of how the human body worked and the creation of the technology to restart the heart came to exist the number of lives saved increased greatly then there’s the armed forces who have over the centuries learned how to use stronger materials for their weapons and armour and eventually created the first guns which eventually paved the way to the present day firearms and combat vehicles eg tanks and armoured personal carriers etc yet most people don’t realise just how many years of trial and error most of the present day is based on from advancements throughout the long history of the world over millions of years of history and yet most take the technology of today for granted but if they really realised how much easier their present day life is due to the technological advancements of the past they would be quite shocked and thankful i think and might appreciate the technology they have available to them more than they do now such as mobile phones 📱 etc
I was working with some of the predecessors of the Internet (Usenet and Arpanet) in 1980. So, yes, Steve was doing Damascus before the Internet was invented.
I can say from my own experience that the old saying, "If you want to learn a subject really well, teach it." is very true.
So true. I've learned so much about my guitar playing by teaching music.
Holy shit what hardware were you on?
Every scrap of Steve's knowledge needs to be recorded in detail and preserved. He has gathered together every tiny little bit he could find, and obviously tested all those nuggets exhaustively to understand what works and what doesn't. So much of the understanding of the smith's craft could have been lost, but his careful examination and experimentation has conserved some very important details of it. I wish there were more people like him who held on to the knowledge of the past and passed it along like he has. I bash metal on an anvil for fun, and I have a decent teacher, but this interview shows that there is grandmaster knowledge out there that should be preserved for future generations of craftsmen. Thank you Steve for sharing, and thank you Will for knowing and caring and sharing this with the rest of us.
Yes. I’ve been wanting a Damascus vid
"You do the stuff that's hard because it makes you GROW!" - music to my ears!
"You can't pour knowledge into a cracked bucket, it won't stay."
And I took that to heart.
As someone who has studied the geology of iron formations and is pretty literate in history, but with only limited blacksmith experience (built a forge when I was a teenager), I appreciate the special quality of this man’s lived experience as a unique window into the past. He has the ability to understand and fill the holes in the history with the combination of his visceral experience and accumulated knowledge.
That's cool. And I agree. But please stop using 'lived experience" it's a redundant statement, "experience" is a word that says exactly what you need it to say without this woke jargon that isn't even proper grammar. "Lived experience" doesn't say anything that "experience" doesn't already say, because the word already refers to something that one can only attain through doing it, through living it. There's no such thing as someone's non lived experience, because if you didn't live it first hand, then it's not experience, it's knowledge. Therefore it's redundant. And yes, I get that it comes out of the "Studies" area of academia and is a veiled attempt at replacing the concept of objective truth with subjective truth. The way you use it isn't that either. What you mean is the man has knowledge and experience. He has expertise.
"Lived experience" is for people trying to legitimise grievances that make no sense to anyone.
@@Patrick-857 there is a difference between visceral/embodied experience (i.e. doing with the hands, muscle memory) vs. a purely mental experience. That’s the reason for my using that term and then later using “visceral experience”. I guess one could make an argument that everything is ultimately a mental/subjective experience, if you were a Buddhist, for example, or everything is ultimately an embodied experience, if you were a scientific materialist, but I personally find the dichotomy relatable and useful.
I agree that if you break it down “lived experience” is a stupid term. I’m not an academic. What I meant was more of the latter “visceral experience”, ie something you can only learn by doing it over and over, rather than reading from a book or watching a CZcams video, or thinking about it.
@@Patrick-857 I have a great deal of observational and research experience at blacksmithing & low tech survival, but very little "lived experience" in them. The practical difference is that I know what to do, and how it's done, but I cannot actually do the majority of it.
@@Patrick-857 its been 4 months, do you feel cringey at your post yet?
@@AvanaVana Thanks for the very reasonable reply. I couldn't agree more with most of what you're saying. I do think however that there really isn't often a need to make a distinction such as your "visceral experience" thing. But English is a language that is very adaptable, so one can express this concept in many different ways. The lived experience thing was certainly not coined to describe a white guy and his extensive experience with an ancient craft. I would say it was very much meant to exclude people like him. I know exactly what you meant though, and could tell you weren't using it in the way it's used in grievance studies circles. I don't blame anyone but the people trying to corrupt the language.
im a 22+ year glass artist looking to get into forging. the stuff glass artist do now is amazing. its even more wild when you learn not one of the techniques is newer then the roman era. ive dione glass classes at corning 20yrs ago. they have the best glass collection on display. 5000k-7000k year old egyptian glass ovens. some of the roman caged glass we still are not sure just how they did it back then. what a awesome breakdown for newbies like me lol. thanks
I'll watch as much Steve as you can post! Great vid, and Merry Christmas!
I'm loving that you decided to own the whole pallet jack thing, the T-shirts are terrific.
What he said about tamahagane is so true. The fact that they got wonderful swords out of it is a testament to the Japanese smiths' dedication and willingness to put in thousands of man-hours into taking what you've got and making it work.
I've had to explain to a couple guys that folding steel doesn't make it magical. It's a method for cleaning the crap out of it. The magic is the smith's skill in getting ANYTHING useful out of some really crappy steel. If those guys were alive today, do you think that they would hesitate for a second in ordering engineered alloys from the supply dealer? Being able to start with a very well known alloy of steel would have let them progress their art and science far beyond where they got to.
@@rallen7660 You probably already know this but there are smiths in Japan keeping the "old way" alive for cultural, artistic and religious reasons, and yes, they harvest the sand and make tamahagane and refine it the old way and all that.
There are still registered sword makers in Japan who will only use that steel, others who use modern steels. The traditional ones get higher prices because they do it the traditional way. Which swords are superior is a matter of opinion because they aren't used for fighting any more.
@@markfergerson2145 From what I know, only Hitachi makes tamahagane during winter. Any they can only sell the 'nuggets' to 'license' swordsmith. And what makes katana and tamahagane great...Anime and manga. Like if you expose the tamahagane to the sun for it to absorb sunlight, the blade can be use to kill demons. (Demon Slayer reference)😁
@@1968gadgetyo Let's not overdo debunking the hype. A well made katana is a well made sword. No, they can't cut atoms in half, no, they can't cut the Earth in half, but they can cut limbs off etc.
My real point was that the Japanese smiths took lemons (tamahagane) and made lemonade (swords).
@@rallen7660 A lot of them would probably have offered up their firstborn daughter for her weight in a good modern alloy steel.
Damascus is a crude Crucible steel with a low level of Vanadium in it that when smelted or was with leaves and twigs, grease, charcoal and glass inside of the crucible. The glass would melt and float to the top while the charcoal consumed the oxygen released by the other materials, the grease and the leaves and twigs would carbonize rather than burn off due to the lack of air adding carbon and helping form the rippling/boiling visual effect of the metal. At the time of its production and for a long time after it was considered the highest qualities steel but it's difficulty to produce, the scarcity of iron ore with Vanadium(nobody knew what Vanadium or many other elements were at this time and therefore didn't add it) and the rise in other easier to produce irons and steels the process was eventually forgotten. In terms of actual quality modern mild steel of significantly better as we actually know about the elements and have been fine tuning steel making from a guessing game luck of the draw shot in the dark to an actual easily reproducible science.
This doesn't stop people from claiming that pattern layer forging, which can produce some very beautiful patterns, are Damascus even though pattern layer forging does not produce Damascus.
It's nice to see the younger and older generations together. Sharing knowledge, particularly things that are more hands on. It's important. So Thank-you to both of you for what you both do. I've learned from both of you and I'm 40 so the sky's the limit. Thank you!!!
Absolutely amazing Will! This is my favorite episode yet!!!
I bet Steve has some worther's originals on him. A real expert!
It's so refreshing to see something like this where he gets it right. No bad information, no mis-information, actually good quality information and a good presentation. I honestly can't recall a better video of this nature.
Knowledge from a master. Love this, absolute class.
Finally doing real wootz damascus. The original mine had a tiny % of vinadium in the steel. Alfred pendray figured out the original recipe verified by a metallurgist and it warms my heart knowing his research isn't lost!
I've been begging You and Alec to do this since you two started working in the same shop together.
... tiny amount* of vanadium*
Man 14 min of a master just spreading knowledge out there, this was beautifull. Thank you Will, thank you Mr. Schwarzer
Honestly that was a great interview. It's hard to encapsulate all of the subject matter in such a brief video but he certainly didn't give any false or misleading information which is wonderful. As a bladesmith, sword seller, and metalworking educator and communicator it is nice to see others in the industry giving down to earth and pragmatic information about their craft.
Judging by some of the comments section of this video it seems like we still have a long journey to go to get proper information out to everyone.
"You can't pour knowledge into a broken bucket. It won't stay..."
Best quote I've heard all year!
"You can't pour knowledge in an empty bucket" - Wise words you can apply in your life, not just in blade-smithing
Into a broken* bucket. As long as a vessel in empty you can put things inside of it.
Hi will....... loving your content since you struck out on your own...... lots of praise and encouragement from Ireland 🇮🇪....... keep up the good work
Work with lads from Tullamore and Westport.
Great places both....... from Tyrone myself...... settled with wife and kids in Derry....... Happy Christmas
@@conorlavery4762 As someone from near Toome I always have a laugh to myself when I scroll through comments on videos like this and see someone commenting from home :)
Small world Ryan 😁
What is the nonsense with the shitload of fullstops? You only need single fullstops to separate sentences.* Looks better, is easier to read, not to mention it's the correct method for all laguages using the latin alphabet.*
One of the best hammer ins I have been to, Al and Steve were both present, it was a very interesting weekend where I did a lot more listening and very little talking!! It has been many years ago
I enjoyed this a lot more than I thought I would. The way you did the questions off camera worked very well and kept me watching until the end for Steve's fun responses.
That was awesome! "You can't pour knowledge into a broken bucket, cause it won't stay" that's my new favorite quote.
Not surprised he was inspired by glasswork, when you showed pictures in the intro it reminded me of “switchbacks” a modern glass technique inspired from old Italian techniques.
It's nice to finally find someone who actually knows the difference between pattern welded and Damascus steel. So many people call pattern Damascus.
it really pisses me off... its like calling someone that can answer 1+1 a mathematician 😁
You must have extremely poor comprehension, or just selective hearing. Because he called pattern welding real Damascus. So either you just did not listen at all, or only hear what you wanted to hear. Literally said "it's just two different techniques". So he is one of those people that call pattern welded Damascus.
One of the greatest videos yet! I love the fact that the younger guys are willing to pay respect to the guys that have been holding this trade down for years and years and giving them the kudos they deserve for sharing their knowledge and providing inspiration.
“Can’t pour knowledge into a broken bucket” - I need that on a tshirt. Now.
the history of damascus steel is really interesting, love the knowledge from Steve
Such a beautiful man. May God continue to bless him, and bless us with and through him.
This gentleman definitely knows what he is talking about .. a combination of personal experience & learned knowledge.
Always nice to hear the "old masters" speak!
Excellent knowledgable guest. Super informative.
That was great! So glad to see more content from you!
Great information . Super video! Thanks and Merry Christmas!
This was indeed a real treat!
Amazing questions and even better answers. Great stuff Will!
Hey, Will keep the video suggestions coming. 👍🏽
Will, thank you so much for creating this video so some of Steve’s vast knowledge is captured and shared with us! Looking forward to more videos with Steve!
This was incredibly informative, great work!
That was awesome, so much knowledge!
Super interesting interview, thanks for sharing!
I absolutely love this video. Thank you
This was way more informative than expected. Nice work, guys!
This was a great vid. Really liked the historical aspects, you can tell he's spent the time to learn, and loves his craft.. thanks for sharing...both of you.👍
Please make sure that you do more interview content, this was amazing!
Incredible video thanks Will and Steve 👏👍
Fascinating ! Great segment !
Incredible video and always so neat to get any insight into Steve’s mind. Thanks for this Will!
What a awesome interview! We gotta learn from our elders, they know things, it’s not always about the future it’s about not forgetting our past, that’s how we do better by not making mistakes and learning from the experience of our elders. This man is awesome.
Awesome interview! Thank you
Wikipedia said the earliest Wootz damascus may have been 2000 years ago. Imagine a beautiful steel knife back then, when humans were still using bronze tools.
Outstanding interview. Good job.
This was a brilliant interview. Fascinating. Thank you
So many videos in such short time! Lovin it
This guy is a treasure. What fun it is to listen to him.
This was great. Really informative.
I love how down to earth Steve is
This gentleman is very knowledgeable, and I'd love to hear more from people like him. What a gem!
Thank you for this video. One of your best in many great episodes.
Merry Christmas Will! 🎄🎄🎄
Wow, just wow. I love learning about all this history and then some around Damascus steel!
Love the history of this metal and I could listen to Steve Schwarzer teach just about anything! Great video! You're both awesome!
"You can't pour knowledge in a broken bucket, it just won't stay"
That there is wisdom!
Absolutely amazing!!!
Glad to finally have a knowledgable individual differentiating the different types of Damascus steel. Enjoyed this deep dive.
Nicely done, merry Christmas
Thanks for the video. Hope you have a Merry Christmas.
Amazing interveiw.would love to see more
This is very great stuff. Thanks.
"You can't pour knowledge into a broken bucket." a person whom speaks with such words of wisdom should be and surely is by me Respected! Thank you for adding to my lexicon a way to describe something in a way so keen, it surely will not be forgotten.
Thanks Will for that. Love hearing about the history on all this. Amazing
That was awesome! Thank you so much for sharing!
This is one of my favorite videos on the internet.
Dude i love this guy. You need to show him a lot. Thanks for the vid man, really thanks. Hope you have a safe and good day.
That was great. More Steve!
Great, down to earth presentation about the reality not the fantasy of different blade steels. The simple advice about never assuming you know everything and only being able to teach people with open minds was worth it all.
Awesome video. Thanks for this.
This is the most I've learned on the topic from one video in many many years.
Doing great Will. Merry Christmas.
Bless you Will for sharing this content!!!! Great seeing you again when you were here! God Speed my friend!
That was a great, fascinating lecture. Thanks for sharing this.
That was awesome thank you for sharing
What a fantastic video. Thanks for sharing this. I learnt a lot.
I loved the part where he said there's a lot of experts out there & some of them are. ✌️
Thank you so much for this episode.
I could listen to Steve for hours, the knowledge he has can only come from passion thank you for sharing 😊
This is the first video of your channel that I liked. There a a ton of videos of other creators that show similar content but this one is new to me.
An interesting and a pleasant video. Thank you, Sir!
Will, this was an awesome interview. I look forward to seeing Steve speak again, please!
Grate Job Will and Steve! Respect!!!
This was an excellent video, fascinating to listen to people with many decades of experience and passion.
Love the video thanks mate
Wowers that's definitely a very informative and helpful video this week Steve and Will thank you guys so much. Love the videos. Keep up the great craftsmanship and hard work my friends forge on. Keep making. God bless.
Awesome video with Steve!
Great video! I like how you are honest about the true purpose of Damascus next to the metallurgy of it. I'm not fond of how many bladesmiths think it is a super steel of very high performance, when it is simply a welded steel of several standard carbon steels such as 1085 and 15n20.
The metallurgy involved in bladesmithing makes a big difference when it comes to performance. Selecting the correct steel according to their hardness, toughness, and corrosion resistance for the use of the blade is very important.
Excellent video thanks!