Jim Cornette Reviews Dave Meltzer's Star Ratings For WrestleMania 39 Night One
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- čas přidán 7. 04. 2023
- From a Bonus Episode of the Jim Cornette's Drive Thru
Artwork by Travis Heckel!
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this just accentuates the fact that dave likes spots more than ring psychology, when there needs to be a balance.
Agreed Cena v Theory was probably 3 stars.
@@johngallagher72 Don't even like Dave but lol.. no.
@@johngallagher72 Nah, Theory didn't get over from that match. It didn't click.
It was the other way around, before he met The Young Bucks. Mat wrestling Muta was just as beloved by Meltzer as high flying Muta. Takuya Sugi was the most spectacular high flyer in wrestling, especially the wrestling Meltzer covers, but Mistico got more attention for drawing more money.
The only thing better than Jim going off on Dave is when Eric bischoff goes off on Dave. Absolutely gold!
They should tag team on dave, kkkkkk it would be a faster turn than lesnar and cody. Kkkk
Well Jim and Dave were friends at one point whereas Eric has always hated Dave. I wonder if that plays a role
Bischoff is a conman and he says the same shit about Dave over and over again.
@@daleharris3809 not only had Eric hated Dave longer, but Eric tried to open WCW up to the dirt sheet “reporters” in the mid-90s and basically ended up getting smacked in the face. I’m sure a lot of resentment comes from that.
@Garrett Keith I'm sure once he heard Mabel was gonna be the 3rd man he was like "ok we're done here."
Meltzer is a Mark the more flips a match has the more stars he gives out. He might aswell be reviewing Gymnastic routines at the Olympics
He just caters to his audience now. That’s all.
He values athleticism more than you might, who cares? This shit is all subjective.
Exactly.. gymnastics judge
I don't recall a single flip in the ic triple threat and that got 5 stars. For once I agree with his assessment.
He’s not just a normal mark he’s a simple mark.
"But he acknowledged when a match was bad or a wrestler was bad or something was stupid. But now he says that it works in the room." - Jim Cornette
The fact he didn’t give the Rhea match 5 stars is classic meltzer
Didn't deserve it. Opening stretch was boring and Charlotte's botched landing on her head was egregious. Besides, Meltzer has seen way better women's matches in Japan.
@@duckmercy11 lol nope
@@duckmercy11 hes given worse Omega matches 6 stars
@@randomguy4781 You have to truly be a cuck for Cornette to believe that.
@@duckmercy11 that botched landing made the match better, much like how Taker's bothced landing made the HBK match better. Sometimes happy little accidents can add a lot to a match. And the opening was not boring unless you have ADD and want dives or flips every other minute.
Gable deserves 5 stars for that Suplex alone.
Gable is god
Hell yeah!
Thank You! ✌
It was impressive. You can see his quads tighten up too so that was almost all leg strength. Not like a Canadian destroyer. That move took sheer strength and athleticism.
Two and quarter stars is a perfectly fine rating for Cena-Theory. The match was mostly John lying on the mat and Theory heel-working the crowd. If anything he may have been a quarter star too generous.
Yup. The match didn't really do much for either wrestler imo and Cena looked like a dolt in the finish when he was celebrating to the tapping without a ref in sight or a bell to be heard.
Exactly, plus the match was a formality. Everyone knew Theory was winning and because of that, he didn't get much of a boost. He pretty much had to win or else he had no chance going forward.
I swear I can do a ballerina dance and some random flips in a match while wearing a NJPW logo and get 6 stars from Meltzer 😂
7 if it’s in the Tokyo Dome 😂
It would be more impressive if you people learned to used soap and deodorant🤷🏻♂️
IDK why you guys keep bringing up Japan bias while also crying about flips. Ospreay is the only flippy main eventer in NJPW. The last Japanese 5 star match went to Aaron Henare vs. Shingo Tagaki, two meaty men beating the crap out each other with zero gymnastics.
I always knew that photo of Meltzer sticking his tongue out at the PWG show was gonna come back to haunt him good job Travis lol😂😂😂
You know way too much about Meltzer
@@thegoughandbordenfamily8234 that's like the one dave photo everyone has seen it's not that obscure lol
Dave giving out a five star match to Usos and Kevin and Sami remind me on revolution when he gave the highest rating to Kenny and Hangman when everyone literally liked the other matches.
It still show his bias compared to better matches.
And he hates women
Meltzer said Charlotte vs Ripley this year was one of the best women’s matches in WWE history….gives it 4.75 stars
Top notch artwork as expected
I love how broken Dave's arm looks.
Dave Meltzer gives the artwork 3 stars out of 5
I was amazed at how many matches Jim and Meltzer weren't that far apart on. I think when it comes to big WWE events, Dave must, in his mind at least, grade on a curve as compared to how he rates AEW and Japanese matches.
I think he grades rather on a baseline starting point. If it takes place in the Tokyo Dome or stardom, it begins by default at 4.5 stars
@@TomClooney only 4.5? I thought he started at 7 and either added or removed half stars...
I think the Cena/Theory match rating is very fair. It had good heat but I'd max it at 3 stars. It was a standard TV level WWE match. Cena did the favor and that was it. Nothing I felt the need to watch again or run out and tell my friends about.
God, the thumbnail for this just makes me grin ear to ear
When I heard 4/half star for rhea and flair, I was like “what a mark” that was the best match for both nights and best women match in history
it really wasnt….
Great match. Not close to the best women's match of all time.
@@prashantmishra6446 well if you disagree with that what do you think is the best womens match?
@@Justin-AL any match involving Manami Toyota in the 90s.
I rewatched it because I obviously missed something. Turns out I didn't and it was just a good match. I thought 🤷🏻♂️
Personally, Miz vs Shane (w Snoop Dogg) is 6 stars for me, just for the hilarity alone.
This artwork is GOATed - Travis is the man!
Just frickin tremendous!
Thumbnail is hilarious. "Man fly through air. High above ring. Five star."
Sounds like a Hollywood Hulk Hogan proverb
Imagine rating Empire Strikes Back based on the final fight scene between Luke and Darth and ignoring the rest of the movie
That was a five star fight scene, though.
+Karim Dave Meltzer is stupid, who hasn't realized this already?
Bruh empire strikes back is the flair v steamboat of star wars.
@@mmmdule I think if you watch it without the context of the 2 movies, it might drop down a star 😅
It'd be like rating the original Mad Max solely on the opening car chase sequence (which IMHO is a 5-star car chase WITHOUT considering the circumstances under which it was made) and totally disregarding the rest of the film - especially Hugh Keays-Byrne's stellar performance as The Toecutter. IMHO the original Mad Max is the Bret Hart of the series - the best there is, was, and ever will be.
This art had me spitting out my drink
It’s high time Jim just trademarked his own match rating scale and replaced the Meltzer Stars as the standard measurement
The Cornyscale
5 Corn kernels
Isn't stars cornys buddy anyway
“He thinks on a very basic level”
Perfect thumbnail! 😂
Not gonna lie, the 4 way tag match did tear the house down. It went better than we all thought
Cornette is completely out of touch
@@jaredgarrison333 he didn't watch the match
It was definitely one of the best matches on night 1.
I understand where Corny's coming from but WrestleMania has always had matches like these, to get more people on the card. The pointless 8-man tag from Mania VIII comes to mind.
Uncle Dave would only give five stars and above if it’s a match in Tokyo or if it involves his beloved trampoline boys
Wrong, WALTER/Gunther has several five str matches, including the 3 way from night 2.
So arguably the best women's match in American wrestling history was just as good as an already forgotten spotfest ladder match in which one of the wrestlers nearly got crippled for life
Are you talking about Bayley/Sasha from Takeover Brooklyn? Because that match didn't happen at Wrestlemania.
@@DaewoOoOoOoOo well I said arguably and that was excellent but that match had the same rating
Becky vs charlotte evolution got rated 4.75 stars too and this is if not wwe best women match ever tied with bayley vs sasha nxt
what is this ladder match you are referring to? who nearly got crippled for life?
@@DaewoOoOoOoOo that match wasn’t even a 4 and a half stars
If you want to truly question just how much Meltzer has broken his own system, just listen/re-listen to this and remember that Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels at WM 25 & 26 both got 4 3/4 stars
Yet bums like Omega get 4+ stars just for showing up, not selling a damn thing, and doing a couple flips. Dave is a mark of the highest order.
The 25 match didn't get 5 stars because Dave was uncomfortable about Undertaker almost killing himself. Then years later he gives all the Okada/Omega shit 5+ stars.
Just goes to show you can't take his system seriously at all.
The stick figure jumping onto the pile of stick figures 😂
Half stars / quarter stars are a cop out. Only full stars should count.
Not really. Having a 5-star scale that goes up to 7.25 is a cop out.
Half and quarter stars are fine but when you go past 5 stars then it's definitely a cop out
@@kujo62 Meltzer is using Scott Steiner math.
Agreed. At that point you may as well use a 10 or 100 point scale.
Nah half stars are fine. Movies also get rated on half stars and I never saw a problem with it. Quarter stars are kinda silly, though.
Dave's a special Ed teacher handing out gold stars.
More like the special Ed kid that the teacher asks to help hand out the stard
He's the one kid in the Special Ed class that's older than everyone else because he keeps getting held back.
He's a special ed teacher that's also special ed
@@Cruising_On_Lake_Havasoma So that's who Eminem was referencing in the second verse of his song "My Name Is"
@@rickroberts7611 But he doesn't have it made like the rapper Special Ed
I don't have a problem with Dave's personal opinions, but the fact that people in certain companies are using his opinion as a litmus test for quality is "killing the business", pun intended
Lol i agree 💯 with your comment
Dave ain’t even playing checkers… He’s throwing Dominos on a checker board and yelling Yahtzee! He wants to play marbles, but the dude can’t find them…
This just came to me. What if Bray Wyatt renamed Uncle Howdy into Uncle Dave
I like how Jim is so offended that Charlotte and Rhea didn't get the 5 stars he just argued against. The reason I still have Bianca vs Becky as the best is because they actually told a story leading up to the match, and the match was amazing from start to finish.
Yess that what i was saying too
@@wrestlingfan5464 🤣🤣🤣
I remember hearing Dave explain his star rating system, and his 5 star rating specifically, "is it better or as good as the first match that got 5 stars." Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
that makes no sense
@@meciocio Sounds like something Meltzer would say haha
I've heard Dave say the exact opposite. That you can't compare every match to Steamboat V Flair due to the evolution of mainstream wrestling.
@@RandalfElVikingo ASSPIE DAVE! xD
@@jm-fe1iz Well all ratings are arbitrary since it's aret and art is subjective.
Has Dave Meltzer given Conrad Thompson a 5 star review on any of Thompson's podcasts?
That artwork of Dave with his tongue out never fails to pop me
Jim been really quick with these WWE uploads
He knows thats wat lots of people wanna hear him talk about
I liked this video instantly just because of the supreme artwork.
Dave has actually been pretty complimentary to WWE lately. WM 39 I think lived up to the build and is a Top Tier Mania.
First night for sure.
IDK. Burying Cody was a dumb decision. If he WWE realized that in wrestling you can have a tie, it would have been better to have two competitive athletes draw even. No one loses, no one wins. It's called a draw.
@@cwalser544 I don't disagree with you, but it still ranks very highly especially amongst Wrestlemanias. Especially recent ones.
@@cwalser544burying is a strong word
@@cwalser544 burying him? Think you need to know what that means, gets thrown around way too much.
And a Draw in the WM Main Event, are you high or just stupid.
Say what you will about Dave....his star ratings gets everyone talking.
Becuase they are bias and people laughing at them
can someone please explain what made rhea and charlotte so good without crucifying me
It was a wrestling match a contest it was what pro wrestling should look like normally but its a rare thing now.
Stiff and looks like a real competitive match
Charlotte took a suplex on her face Rhea crazy DDT sell. Those women took the ball and sprinted
@@MichaelJones-pl7xh thank you! ive asked this on other sites but i always get passive aggressive replies. i thought it was an amazing match i just didnt understand why it was getting so much praise cuz i thought there had to be some better womens matches that have happened but that explained it perfectly
It was Sheamus and Gunther for women.
Rhea and Charlotte fersher earned 5 but that moment where Kevin looks into the void and screams "Sammi now!!" And a zombie Sammi zayne springs to life to throw that hail marry helluva kick made a grown man cry and needs 6 stars fersher
A grown man uses "fersher" ?? Interesting world we live in
Not even gunna lie, that men’s showcase match was fire 😂
It was pretty good haha. I had low expectations for it but it got a high rating from me
It definitely was 🔥🔥
Corney is the man! It's funny how many other Podcasters will say they don't agree or don't listen to him but then reference stories from the podcast. Keep up the great work team!
He's one of the biggest and has been here for a while now so everything related to wrestling said by corny gets to their ears.
Probably secretly even agreeing with him.
Dave's 5 stars match criteria:
✅ 348 flips
✅ 497 unnecessary spot fest
✅ 25 finishers kick out
5 starsssssssssssssss babyyyyyyyyy
💯
Davey Boy Smith Chinlock
Gunther got 5 stars, dude. You don't know what you're talking about.
Oh no, they both started off laughing this time! This shit about to be funny as hell 😭
I can only imagine what Cornys reaction would be if Dave did an in depth breakdown of Jim's opinions match-for-match of wrestlemania
"OMG he's so obsessed with me!, what's his problem?!?
To be honest, you're right. I like Jim and dislike Meltzer but we just stop talking about him.
Why tf people keep entertaining meltzers dementia ratings
Why is he even taked about dude is clearly clueless af
Might as well ask why anyone has ever given a shit about Meltzer's opinions to begin with.
@@Cruising_On_Lake_Havasoma Better than Cornette's even more outlandishly senile (and racist/sexist) opinions.
If you just ignore those ridiculous 6 & 7 star ratings he gives out, I can't actually complain too much about Dave's ratings here.
Yea, I've seen much more egregious star ratings from Uncle Dave.
The Cena vs Theory one seemed a bit low, but everything else I agreed with at least on Night 1
@@ZeusTheTornado nah it’s was pretty mid. 2.5 at the very most
@Zeus The Tornado - Rap y Baladas Subtituladas Cena vs Theory was underwhelming. I kept hoping it would pick up and it never did.
@@Snargle He gave Moxley vs Hangman 5 stars, he has done far worse than the 0.25 difference that ppl are complaining about with Rhea & Charlotte
"Would've been 6 stars in The Toyko Dome."
- Dave aaaah uuuuh uuuum Meltzer
Dave’s star ratings make zero sense by any metric other than Dave’s jaded concept of what pro wrestling is.
2 and a quarter stars for cena/theory seems appropriate
I agree!
I don't think Rhea vs Charlotte was in any way a bad match, but I didn't like it as much as I liked the tag match to close the show. They're close, but I still think if anything deserved a 5-star rating from Night 1, it was the ME
For all you kids out there, Meltzer didn’t give a single WWF/E match 5 stars between 1998-2010, which is why his recent predilection for giving them out like Pez is even more ridiculous.
Which is why the Unbreakable 2005 triple threat for the X-Division title and Punk vs Joe in ROH stood out so damn much! They were industry defining matches at that time. No North American match had a five star match during that period save these two.
He has to do it now, because of how many 5 stars he gives AEW. People are complaining and comparing the matches and not seeing enough of a difference
He didn't give NJPW any 5 star matches in that period either. He was mostly watching MMA at the time.
Crazy that Jim called Hogan/Rock a 5 star match. I agree, but an old man and a movie star had a perfect match. It was incredible.
Jesus he called that match 5 star 🤣
Meh
I’d give it 5 out of 7.25.
Just started listening but this was hilarious from the start. Really needed this after this past week of garbage starting from WM night 2...
this is some of the best Heckel thumbnail art ever.
Jim's quote "Dave is playing checkers and we are playing chess" sums it up well. Wrestling fans want to see believable fights where you can't tell if they are fighting for real, but they are actually not.. Dave wants to see circus.
@@James-if3kc yea, it has some intricacies you know... checkers is just pieces jumping around doing the same move
@@James-if3kc a lot of checkers people is going to get mad now XD
The showcase match overachieved and had some nice spots.
I wonder what or would Dave have given the Rock n Roll Express vs Horsemen match at Starrcade 86. And knowing what occurred after Starrcade how that would affect the rating.
I like Jim's thought process on a rating system for how they push, perception and business success but Dave's rating system is based on performance mainly. Which a performance rating system has to exist and makes the most sense. But a rating system that Jim seems to prefer should exist as well.
you think Meltzer's system is based on wrestling performance??? hahahahaha, that's funny. I give you 7 stars for the amount you made me laugh.
It's very weird that Rhea and Charlotte didn't get 5 stars
It wasn't in the Tokyo Dome
That and the IC triple threat were the best matches of the weekend
@@canedust Neither was Utami vs. Syuri, but it got 5.5 stars.
Only if Triple H held Wrestlemania in Tokyo Dome, these matches would be at least three stars higher.
If only Levesque could've drawn money when he was an active wrestler then he migh've actually been good at running the compaby.
I think it’s obvious that Dave is holding of to give Britt Baker 5 stars for the women. I don’t think a USA women’s match has ever gotten one.
Yh man I wish Charlotte can go to aew and have a match with brit baker it would get 9 stars
Britt baker is not even getting 4 stars in a regular single match...
Every drawing of ol Meltzy-boy has his tongue sticking out like a hungry ant-eater, and it's hilarious!
I’m curious what Brian Lasts favorite women’s match of all time is, besides the Charlotte/Rhea match
Probably Toyota vs. Kong or Hokuto vs. Kandori.
here's hoping Logan Paul ends up in jail for his crypto nonsense
He's a pos person
Was he aware it was a scam? If he was then yeah but if he wasn't aware then why would he be charged?
@@jayharv285 he was completely fucking aware
@@Sky_Blaze how do you know though? (Not a Logan Paul fan but I've never looked into this whole thing)
@@jayharv285 they don’t know that. It’s what they made up because they don’t like Logan. I don’t give two shits about him and have seen zero evidence he knew.
"If I ever give another match 7 stars, it will be a wonderful thing for wrestling." -Dave Meltzer
😅😅😅😅😅
Oh ffs he really said that? He truly lives inside of his own head.
Dave never really struck me as a narcissist, but that comment really speaks volumes.
The worst thing is people taking that clown seriously.
Uncavern Dave and Jim Rocknette was a thing since the beggining of Prehistoric Era
It's missing 70s Ted Nugent with the loincloth
"Dave's playing checkers, we're all playing chess.." LOL
lol, that pic of Unca Dave.
Answer in the form of a question. How many superkicks were in rhea vs Charlotte?
Brian doing the Seth Rollins laugh is an all timer for me
I was laughing at Jim’s reaction to Cena and theory 😂 2 1/4 stars WHAT had me in tears
Also if those fatal 4 way tag matches were #1 contender matches would’ve made them a lot better just for that reason alone ir whoever wins that faces the current contender for the #1 contender spot to make it mean something
The tag match was really better than Cena VS Theory
That Seth laugh by Brian o.o
Give the artist a raise. That thumbnail is brilliant.
Never heard him or alverez criticise an AEW match yet and were nearly 4 years in!
Cornhole is obviously in love with Dave.
Omg the art. I didn't know who Dave Meltzer was until I started listening to podcasts and I was watching in the 90s. I've only ever known the old, crazy uncle Dave version who likes watching normal sized dudes splat themselves for golf claps. Instead of the Rock & Hogan who can lift a brow, cup an ear and take the roof off. 😂🤪
Huh?
@@duckmercy11 Rock and Hogan got bigger pops doing taunts than fools doing corkscrew shooting star headbutts through tables. 🧠 I never knew who this guy was until podcasts started popping up. I'm glad I didn't.
@@Christoffski Not really, look up Gargano vs. Cole at Takeover New York, it got some of the loudest pops ever. As for Meltzer, it's a lie to suggest he only likes normal size dudes. He's just as quick to give 5 stars to Gunther or Shingo Takagi as small guys.
@@duckmercy11 Hogan vs Rock is 5 stars. He has 0 credibility. You just posted a bunch of waffle. Are you him? 😦
He doesn’t regularly give 7 stars. He has given it once. And 5 is supposed to be classic
Owens and Sami got 5 stars not only because of the quality of the match, but because people who used to work on PWG are part of it, and everybody knows that Dave loves this promotion.
If Charlotte and Rhea had a run in PWG,he would had give them 5 Stars 🤷🏻
I don’t know maybe and this is only my speculation because The main event had the better buildup and story ? That finish alone with Sami delivering the 3 helluva kicks to Jey is enough of a case to why the match is superior to the Rhea/Charlotte match
@@MAHRULESV2 i would agree with you, but Meltzer already gave 5 stars and more for matches without any build up, like Omega vs Viking for example.
Give more than 5 stars for a WWE match is a sacrifice for Meltzer,because it isn't a indie and/or underground wrestling promotion,and he want people to see the Minor Leagues as a big deal, but i don't think this is the way to do it.
@@klawstecno2083 You know who cares really ? Like even he said that his star rating is just a reflection of his own opinion He likes what he likes and that’s it. It’s the fans that put his star rating on a pedestal
I will stick up for the four corners match, I thought it exceeded its expectations! I was so underwhelmed and not excited but it wasn't just a flip fest, and they kept our interest (that and my friends)
Some of the other ratings baffle me though. Its not just about the moves like Cornette said. Cena returning and Theory going over are factors thart should be taken in too.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
cena vs theory fell flat at the end. feel like more people were just disappointed by how it finished vs who won
I agree with Jim that nothing is perfect
Travis, smh. The thumbnail is fucking hilarious.
Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels WM25 = ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Meltzer gave Yoda vs Count Dooku one million stars and said Yoda was the best worker in the business.
lol that's brilliant
We need a combative parkour t-shirt
@3:09 7 scar ?
The men's four way match was pretty good imho
The only ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ matches I witnessed on real time in my time as a fan were THE Hell in a Cell match and the 2001 Royal Rumble.
2001 Royal Rumble intresting take..🤔
Maybe a "super kick, hurracanrana and Canadian destroyers" do mean extra stars
I was a fan of the Men’s showcase although going in I was “afeared” that it would be a disaster. I agree that it was the closest to an AEW spot fest match, but if your gonna do it anywhere Wrestlemania is the best place to do it.
So you like men in underwear and tights? You just admitted to being gay. Hey man good for you, proud of your courage.
Jim taking bumps in his attic 😂
Dave still hasn't forgiven Charlotte Flair for challenging him...what a joke.
Dave's Star Rating System Explained:
- Story doesn't matter unless Kenny Omega is involved, then it's a "fantastic example of storytelling" and "amazing in-ring psychology" even if the match was a 3 minute standoff vs an inflatable sex doll;
- number of spots doesn't matter unless the Young Bucks are involved;
- At least 1 star per superkick, capped at a maximum of 5 superkicks - no caps for the Young Bucks;
Very much this.
"Story doesn't matter", Punk vs. Cena was 99% story and got 5 stars.
He wasn't wrong about the theory match.
The men’s 4 way tag was great. Way better than Theory vs Cena.
Meltzer starts AEW/NJPW matches at 5 stars and works down/up from there and WWE the matches start at 0 stars and have to work there way up to 5 which is why most don’t make it to 5 including HBk/Taker