This Mower Should NOT Exist!
Vložit
- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- This mower mounts to your front loader and is powered off by your third-function hydraulics. While this would be very convenient, for getting it all connected, there just is not enough power.
0:00 - Found on Facebook Market Place
0:38 - 72" Finish mower mounted on front loader powered by hydraulic motor
2:01 - PTO Horsepower
2:49 - Third Function Hydraulic Horsepower
3:22 - Horsepower calculations
4:50 - What can deliver enough hydraulic flow for this front loader mower?
6:12 - Variety of implements and applications
800.222.3373 | www.messicks.com | Parts Hotline - 877.260.3528
Kubota Parts - www.messicks.com/vendor/kubota
New Holland Parts - www.messicks.com/vendor/new-ho...
Case IH Parts - www.messicks.com/vendor/case
Service - www.messicks.com/schedule-service
Sales - www.messicks.com/attachment/c...
Messick's Merch - www.messicks.com/part/departm...
Kubota Merch - www.messicks.com/part/departm...
Toys - www.messicks.com/apparel - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Use it for trimming the top of your hedges
This shows how desperate us boomers are to having a mower on the front so we don’t have to turn our stiff necks to see what we are doing. Tractor manufacturers need to see this and return to making front mount 3point hitch/PTO’s so we can have a front mount mower or flail, like you can get in Canada. I bought a front mount Grasshopper mower and have never looked back (Literally)!😆
Yea i love those front mount grasshopper. Can't stand mid mount zt you can't cut as close without getting yourself tangled up in what ever your cutting around. And they crab cut really well on steep hills.
Every grasshopper I've worked on just needs a service and blade sharpening. Absolute beasts. Built farmer tough lol
Excellent point about the hydraulics issue but what about the fact that they used a rear discharge deck and put it in front of the tractor! You’re shooting everything right into the radiator!!!!
Rear discharge means just that: out the overall rear of the entire machine.
Yah I was thinking he would list several reasons to not do this
A few years ago I bought an Iseki SF333 with a 72 inch mower. It’s very similar to a Kubota F series machine, basically a small tractor which is back to front. The Iseki is quite old and has its problems but having a mower out front is so better than having the mower out the back.
Actually I think the mower itself is a great concept. I had a finish mower for my small tractor and hated it so much I went and bought a zero turn. All that the front mower needs is a hydraulic power unit that works off of the pto or off of the center pto. These hydraulic units are pricey but being able to reach in under bushes and see what you are mowing is a big plus.
You should have a look at the European agricultural market and see how much more front mount implements are used over there.
Another thing that was overlooked is looks like the mower has a case drain. So unless you can plum that into the non pressure side I dont know how you would hook it up to a regular tractor. It would also need an over run clutch or the equivilent in hydraulic bypas valve.
Great comment about the Toolcat and its potential function with this implement. But actually I think Bobcat’s small articulated loaders (L23 and L28) are probably more on point. To my knowledge, those machines do not yet have an OEM finishing mower as options.
Front attachments are better options if you would run them from the mid PTO just like the front snow blower.
Now if the lazy attachments manufacturers will get their behind back to the design and engineering table they could many implements just like ventrac.
The PTO kit from snow blower (mid PTO to front of tractor) could be made for universal attachments.
Front attachments would be:
- snow blower
- sickle bar mower
- finish mower
- brush hog
- trimmer lawn mower
- flail mower
- yard blower
- hay rake
- concrete mixer
All of this (and more) could be run from front if you use the mid PTO extension or they could make adopters for a shaft and driveline for rear to front PTO connections.
If we could take it a step further and have the tractor manufacturers to add a front PTO.
Hydraulics should be use for implements with cylinders and not for rotation purposes. Flexible shafts can also be made to help out.
I put a 6 ft mower on the loader arms powered off of the mid pto. Worked great
Thank you for your information about this mower on the front loader. I would agree.... plus what about heating the fluid?
Great info Neil!! It has been suggested to me to go the skid steer front mower route but then the salesman cautioned me that there were what he termed “limitations and wear”. Instant turn off.
I have a 60 inch king cutter finish mower I turned into a loader mounted mower 10 years ago. It has a pto hydraulic pump and tank that is 3 point hitch mounted to run it. I hang it on my Kubota bx25 with no issues and so far I have not found anything that even touches the governor mowing with it I completely sumerge it all the time mowing the edges of ponds and nothing tractoer picks it up and down with no issues or even hits the relief on the tractor which I can do digging dirt. I've mowed alot of acres and banks and ponds with it over the 10 years since I built it and always wondered why it was not an option for all tractors.
I was actually going to make one of these for mowing the sides of jumps on a motocross track. It wasn't going to be that big but the exact same idea.
If you run a hydraulic mower with the return going through the valve, it will overheat the hydraulics.
The lane shark front brush cutter fits on the front and it is slick. The trick to running it off of the third function is to run a separate line back to tank that bypasses the valve. If you do this, it won't overheat.
All that being said, being able to cut the grass before the tires roll over it is super nice. I bet it does a great job compared to a belly mower or rear mower. Letting the lift arms float and the mower being on its own 4 wheels is a super good design.
There is a guy on tractor time with tim who put a hydrolic booster that was driven by pto. He was using a boomer series new holland with a brush cutter. It was working beautifully.
PTO driven pump to a front mounted bush hog works like a champ for clearing lanes
It sounds great for mowing wet areas and ditches
I am thinking about making a hydrologic front mower, but I was going to make a PTO driven pump and reserve tank. I want the greater flow rate and the ability to keep the oil cooler than running it through the tractor pump.
These are designed for skidsteer and work best on one’s that have high flow aux system. I’m buying one for mine this summer my cousin has one and my neighbor also has had one for a few years and they work well for retention pond breasts
Loader front mount mower. Sounds nice and maybe it could work off rear or front pto pump. It would require more than some additional hardware to power it. I'm wondering if the loader and mower would have too much down force when in float mode. Also I don't see if there is a hinge providing independent rotation for the front wheels to raise or lower independently from each other as well as rotation for the left and right wheels. There needs to be a way for all 4 wheels to stay on the ground.
Don't forget the A series Bobcats (discontinued recently) that have all wheel steering. I could put that on my Bobcat A300 and have a 9000 lbs mower, I mean, that's what you need right, a 9000 lbs mower? Just think how exciting it would be mowing over your septic tank! Love my A300 around the farm. Seriously though, when I saw this "finish mower" for the first time I laughed.
Bobcat is actually releasing an articulating tractor line - reminiscent of a Ventrax - shortly. So the A-series influence continues.
Hi Neil Nice one Thanks again
Scag has front deck mowers driven by hydraulic motors, driven by 25-30hp twin Kawasaki or Kohler engines, but i imagine the pumps are flow rated to run the deck drive motors.
Don't forget the PTO hydraulic power pack that runs lines to the front for constant work like a SSQA brush hog or branch limber. I don't know their hydraulic flow but it is generally much better than anything the tractor puts out.
A hire company i use to work for Had a few of them on kubota B series tractors with front a road broom on the front those little things were awesome
Might be able to run a separate hydraulic system off the pto and 3 point to get the flow needed for that setup
Probably works mint on hillsides.
There is a market for tracked skid steer mowers. Both bush hogs and finish mowers. Wet areas a tractor would sink to the axle. A tracked machine can go right thru.
Small avant work loveley with sutch mower
You're totally right Neil, but you hit on a quiet truth of the industry: The SSQA has done wonders for carrying tools up front, and there is yet to be as versatile and universal a standard for the rear end. Loaders are in the modern era, and 3-points are stuck in the 19th century. The easy of use of a loader equipped with SSQA is driving the market for these weird things.
Good to let people know and understand the limitations of these types of things so they don't end up buying attachments that don't work.
Still the north American market is really slow to adapt and appreciate the niche value of these things. For instance having a high flow LX series that could run a hydraulic snow blower or forestry mulcher on the loader would be awesome, but they'll be selling the subframe mount snow blower for the next 20 years just because they can.
Not to mention things like equal size front and rear tires on tractors, or a default font and rear 3 point hitch if you don't have a loader.
There's room for innovation and evolution in the tractor market, but due to these common sense ideas and standardized implements and offerings. There's not a whole lot of experimentation for brands like kubota.
Awesome! I can trim my trees and hedges now! 🤣🤣
The mower shown was obviously intended for use on a Track loader. It was just being transported by a tractor via. the SSQA.
Is that front third function valve even set up for constant flow?
Front mower means I can cut under things easier and get closer to steep inclines without all the weight being heigh and center
The goal is "out front mower".
For most machines, the (mechanical) PTO is in the back.
I looked around a few years ago.
I think Kubota had a front-facing PTO setup, maybe New Holland as well.
Little I know, mechanical PTO would be much superior to hydraulic power attachments.
My $.02
I would think that you will add alot more heat to your hydraulic system with a front loader mower vs PTO driven unit.
The only thing i can see a use for this type mower, is trimming around edges of property like over the bank and whatnot, maybe some pond edge work. I wouldn`t mow my yard with one.
Can someone develop a loader mounted mower that runs on the mid PTO?
You could use this with a pto powered hydraulic power pack
It could work if it had a pivot and a limiting chain to make it actually ride the ground....and let's not forget it needs the HP and I fear a hydraulic operating unit is just straight silly.
A brush hog, maybe? But a finish mower on a front end loader would be a nightmare! Every bump and dip would ruin whatever “finished” look the mower is designed for. Sounds like a front end loader company put this out to sell replacement loaders for when whoever buys this breaks theirs.
Scalp-A-Matic
People WANT front mount implements for visibility and so better control. People will buy a much bigger tractor if need be so they do not have to look back. This is specifically important fir a snow blower..
The first tractor manufacturer that can figure out how to deliver decent power to the front will own a huge and very profitable market.
PTO off the back of the tractor is the cheapest way to go on fuel. I have a Bush hog for my skid steer I don't use it too much I go to 5 hrs on a 19 gallon fuel tank from full to out without on normal use 8 HR on 19 gallon
Not to mention the heat something like that woukd generate and how much hydraulic cooling capacity the tractor has. Most of those small tractors are meant for intermittent hydraulic use moving cylinders back and forth and some power steering operation. Not constant full flow for hours.
And I would certainly not like to be in direct line of the output of that mower being what appears to be rear discharge. The operator and tractor will both be absolutely covered in grass clippings.
I don't have a quick-attach but I'm surprised that a dethatcher isn't offered as a loader-attachment. I guess my mowing with a tractor is not ideal for most, zero-turns are overrated.
I have a 72" front mount brush cutter running off of the third function hydraulics, and I can tell you the overheating issue is real. Mine is on a 100hp Kubota M100GX and I only run it for about a minute at a time, getting between trees and on pond banks I can't mow with my 15' Rhino flex wing. Even then it starts to get hot soon enough that it is an absolute no-go for a large swath of land. I'd need a hydraulic cooler and a spare tank like mentioned below for sustained use. Not my favorite implement.
Neil did not include the efficiency of the hydraulic motor in his calculation of power to the mower blades. His calculation is for the power available from the hydraulic fluid. But the hydraulic motor is probably only 70% to 85% efficient at converting the power in the hydraulic fluid to power turning the blades. Multiply Neil's number by the motor efficiency to obtain the power available at the blades. In contrast the gear system in a PTO powered mower will probably be 95% to 98% efficient in delivering the power in the PTO shaft to the blades.
this is the way.
Where I used to work they ran a 60” mower on our medium sized Bobcat for years through fairly rough terrain for years and a 48” snow blower, with no apparent problems.
But I’m not an “expert”
and without a case drain, they may only get to use it (and their tractor hydraulics) once!
I did not like the loader mounted blade on my JD. I traded it for a grapple that I do like.
You can pick it up to trim the hedges!
How much horse power do the Chinesesem mower attract require? I f you can get your hands on one cheap... it might be interesting to do an actual test of what how they function
Neil - Love your content, but I have to disagree with you on this one. While technically from the way you did the specs it is a compromise to run the mower on hydraulics. Yet there are so many versions available for skid steers that do just that as are hydraulic PTO/motor driven power packs that you hang off the rear. Having a small brush cutter on the front loader would be super awesome for much of my ditch maintenance where I have a V shaped ditch that is difficult to maintain.
see LaneShark. Different animal all together. much smaller, single blade, made to run on low HP. The mower in the video is nothing but a 3pt hitch mower with a hydraulic motor bolted to it.
The Chicoms are known for their fanaticism over their lawns, so you know that's a quality piece of equipment.
But what a nice hedge trimmer
That mower was hysterical. I feel bad for whomever bought it lol
I prefer a front mounted mower. In the front I can get into corners. I can
get right up against a fence or a building. In front I can keep my eye on it.
!
Just making a guess here..... I would imagine the welds on that deck would not last more than a couple of seasons!
It's a "finish" mower. Some 72" decked zero turns run 27hp engines. Probably about half that power is turning the blades. So a tractor putting out 14-15hp to the hydro would probably be fine. The problem would be people trying to use it to cut grass that is a few feet tall...which a finish mower isn't designed to do.
How is the Lane Shark running off the 3rd function hydraulics then? Seems to be the same concept.
Made for low flow. 48", single blade, small motor.
Would work just fine with a stand-alone, auxiliary hydraulic system ran off PTO.
.
Other than that, modify it for rear tractor use.
.
that 1714 formula dosen't take any efficiency losses in to the equation.
Such as 90degree turns in hydraulic parts, under sized hoses, ect, ect, ect.....
I run a lane shark off my rear remotes and it has plenty of power. 50 hp kubota
different animal, and should have been part of this video. Made for low - flow - low HP. This is not.
The front mounted Lane Shark which is powered by tractor hydraulics has appeared in Messicks videos. This just seems to be a budget version.
I should have referenced the LaneShark. Different animal all together. much smaller, single blade, made to run on low HP. The mower in the video is nothing but a 3pt hitch mower with a hydraulic motor bolted to it.
You neglected to mention that a mower mounted far away from the rear axle like that, would cut terrible on any lawn that wasn't 100% flat.
I disagree, back in the 70's I worked for a Jacobsen Distributor when a lot of our equipment (72" mower decks) was powered by hydraulics. The engines were smaller but the machines did a good job cutting rough areas around the golf course. The mower deck that you show had four large wheels that would allow the mower deck to simply roll along the ground while the front end arms on the tractor is in the float position. While the setup is not ideal due to the fact that you don't have good visibility it should not be that big an issue. This is not a bush hog it is simply a good mower for mowing grass that is not 3 feet tall. This would work good for a home owner or anyone on a limited budget.
How do the hydraulics keep up with the gpm needed to run the mower.
They don't. 😢
You would need a PTO mounted hydraulic pump with its own revisor of fluid to keep up with it.
It astounds me that tractors are still a thing since tracked skidsteers are so much more powerful, versatile and affordable.
Skid steers tear up a lawn when they turn. Definitely not a good choice with a finish mower.
So, Neal, are you saying it's a bad idea? You need to quit waffling! :)
without knowing the GPM rating of the mower, how can you make the claim that it will not work?
Yup, I don't agree. After running a sidecutter for years that spins off of hyd. i see no reason why a small tractor shouldn't run a finishing mower. The horsepower excuse doesn't cut it, hyd. works differently than raw hp.
So basically here the problem is small tractors with skidsteer quick-attach plates.
Yeah but think how fast you could trim the hedges!
You’d have to drive over the hedge, somewhat counterproductive
The one thing it does well, separate the buyer and his (or her) money while giving legit accessory Mfr a bad name.
Better faster way to trim the hedge
some will buy it and think its the best. I'd rather not try mowing with something 20+ feet long unless its a big rotary cutter
the front end loaders on those New Hollands should not exist either. Holy shit- the front of the bucket is 8' from the center of the front axle
Doesn’t the Federal Government regulate blade tip speed and since GPM flow is different from one machine to another who knows what the blade tip speed is?
Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should!
Minus the hydraulic flow needed for steering, and the hydro-static transmission.And the joys of Chinesium, not cleared out of the lines and cylinders, contaminating your system.
Buying a no name system for your expensive tractor is asking for it. No, demanding it. Might just void part of a warranty.
I see the Amish use these regularly. Those that Cannot own tractors but can own skids loaders
this mower is designed for mini wheel loaders not for a fontloader on a tractor
My guess is you put the loader into float mode and drive.
The idea is feasible but I would have a remote hydraulic pump run off the tractors PTO and a reserve tank for it's own hydraulic fluid.
Reality a 3 point mounted finish mower would be cheaper and prolly a lot safer.
Thats fine if you have a flat yard, but otherwise you would have to keep adjusting the angle.
@@Matt-mq1ep good point.
bobcat have made skid steer with a steerable tire then john Deere makes a wheel loader with a steerable back tire
One day somebody will come up with electric implements for the front loader that run off of a pto generator. Then maybe there will be enough power!
Hydraulic PTO pump would be better more simple more power
@Messicks you failed to address how much hp a mower like that needs. If it only needs 8 to 10 hp then where is the problem? Without knowing what the actual power requirements are how can one truly know how well it might work? Guessing from looking at a picture seems to be more an exercise in clickbait than a serious discussion of the merits of this tool.
As for your rear PTO, when the engine hp is also used to drive the machine there won't be the same number of hp to drive the implement.
typically your driving finish mowers with 3-5 Hp\Foot.
The only use for this mower, is trimming hedges! 🤣😆
Its Probably meant for Track loaders or wheel loaders.
I thought it had a gas engine on top. That would be perfect.
A belly mower uses the mid PTO. A front mounted snow blower uses the mid PTO. Why can't a front mounted mower uses the mid PTO?
as soon as you lift the loader or roll the bucket front\back you would be running the shaft at an impossible angle.
Use the Kubota front mount quick hitch that attaches to the frame not the loader.
@@andrewgee241 a front flail is available on the GL-60, so it does exist. Really pricey setup, but it can be done.
I honestly thought it's a knockoff for a toolcat 😅
so... just fix your tractors put on the high flow that should be there.
Who actually makes New Holland compact tractors now in 2023. And who made them in the late 1990s ?
I wouldn’t want that heavy of a machine on a finish lawn.
"...awn line..."????????
Dead Alive 2.0
I don’t want it and do think it’s a little wonky, but who says you have to run it off tractor hydraulics? Can always add a PTO pump and reservoir. Front mount has it’s benefits. Stop being so negative and use a little imagination, especially since no one makes front mount implements (other than a snowblower and broom) . And especially since the front mount adapters for these tractors cost as much as the loader.
so true , not very practical
Well, get on with it...I'm out at 2:15...
Nice idea, terrible implementation.
Every golf course reel mower runs hydraulic motors... there it works.
The pump is capable. Thats its sole purpose. Transfer engine power.
This might work on a skid steer, something thats dedicated to hydraulics and will have the flow.
A regular tractor with fel? The hydraulics are just adequate for what they have.
I got the perfect pump. Came from an elevator. Has a 1.5" delivery line... strap it straight to the crank, add an extra oil tank, admit it will require twice the power for the same mower unit as pto drive, and select driving speed appropriately, blah blah...
Sorta defeats the purpose!
"This mower should not exist." Don't buy one and it soon won't.
Typical Chinese junk to play on people's lack of knowledge. The power pack is the way to go, but a compact tractor might be too heavy for turf. They work great for brush cutting. We got one of the last TrailBlazers with a power pack. We like how it cuts through brush on the front.
If someone really wants a front-end finish mower, then they should go with Steiner or Ventrac. Lots of attachments, but they are limited on their loaders.
I Liked your old music better, the rock and roll isn't very fitting . . .