The Blackwater Massacre Re-Visited - Red Dead Redemption 2
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#RDR2 #reddeadredemption #rockstargames - Hry
I have no idea why Rockstar hasn't made any campaign DLC for the game. There's so much stuff they could explore through campaign expansions. They could even do Blackwater itself, and release the story content in weekly drops almost like a tv show airing
Because it wouldn't make them as much money as making content for GTA Online
Rockstar's priorities shifted to online, as they can make more money for cheaper costs. They ironically said RDR2 won't be getting any story DLC because their focus is "100% on Red Dead Online" which doesn't even get proper updates now.
@@themadtitan7603yeah
Because with the time and money it would take to make a rdr2 single player dlc, rockstar can pump out garbage for gta online in half the time and money, and make way more money doing so
@@themadtitan7603 and now they’re not even focusing on RDO anymore
It's very interesting that Ross says to Jack, "Enjoy your fishing, kid... while you still can," when Jack kills Ross while he's fishing at the end of the first game.
Duck hunting, not fishing but yes. Basically the same concept. Ironic and it wasn’t revenge. It was Justice.
By definition... It was revenge tho🤷
yep was epic
its the same thing sometimes...
Based find
The worst decision in the entire game was Arthur's... when Mary Linton asked him to run away with her and never look back…💔
You can choose to not do that. Which is what I did, #fdatB
I mean he would've died from tuberculosis anyway
He already had TB at that point, in only a very short time it would have shown symptoms.
Maybe with mary he could've got through it but honestly i kinda dought he would be the type to try and rest, he was already dead at that point, he just didn't know it
@@wooblydooblygod3857 Thing is, he would have been able to rest in a dry place like the doctor said. He would have also been able to get much better treatment and lived out his last months in peace
@@wooblydooblygod3857 Tuberculosis while often fatal if untreated is far from 100% fatal. I think he would've had a chance if he wasn't under a ton of physical and mental stress, wasn't in hot and humid environments, and didn't nearly drown on that ship
its an important and oft overlooked detail that the Pinkertons only track down Arthur at the river directly after freeing michah from prison in strawberry
That's because you can free micah last before chspter 2 ends. It's not an overlooked detail.
@@Xer405 over looked by people who play it to relize that's when the pinkertons turned micha
@@linkerman300 Micah turned snitch after Guarma
micah was a snitch from the jump he the reason they got set up in blackwater
@@1prettykiki No.
I think Micah and the Blackwater heist signaled the gang's doom. Both John and Hosea say the gang hasn't been the same for years; turning into a bunch of killers focused on survival and not helping folk like they used to. Hence why, Dutch was suddenly willing to induct a selfish, ruthless killer like Micah into the gang and that was his biggest mistake. Micah sought a big, risky score that marked the beginning of their end. He might've not always been the rat, but he always wanted to get that money and ditch the gang, it's why he kept asking to go to Blackwater and why he ultimately ratted the gang when he saw they're in decline in exchange for slipping away scott-free and getting the money.
Exactly. Notice how on the boat ride back from Guarma Micah asks one last time to slip in and get the money, and honestly that was the perfect time to do so, but Dutch still immediately shut him down and didn’t bother giving him a reason why. Then we can presume that once they make it to shore, Micah goes and seeks out the pinkertons for a deal, and afterwards he becomes Dutchs yes man and never asks about the blackwater money for the rest of the story
I was thinking that too. I mean trying to steal that much money alone is enough to have an entire small army come after u. The Pinkertons and the actual US Army got involved in hunting down the Van Der Linde Gang.
A scenario in RDR3, you could play as Davey and Mac who are TRUE killers while the morality weighs in by the comments from Dutch, Arthur and Hosea. If Dutch was about robbing the rich to give to the poor, and helping those in dire need; you could expect Davey and Mac to go about this the wrong way. It would make excellent banter between gang members.
@@xvxvcaspervxvx Nah they were crazy hot heads but they were firm believers of Dutchs code and what he stood for much like Arthur. It’s said that while Mac was getting tortured he would only repeat Dutchs philosophy how they won’t play the game by the governments rules and all that. I find it odd that Charles and Lenny have so much disdain for them yet Hosea liked them a lot and probably saw them as sons much like how he sees Arthur, John, Sean, etc. which tells me they were probably higher ranked in the gang and picking on the newer members
tru😊
The fact in chapter 2 Arthur said to either rescue Sean now or cut him loose if he gets to the federal prison but in chapter 6 breaks into the prison to save John just shows how much he had changed as a person
He was just joking. He would never leave someone behind
@Kapech ...
No he wasn't, the difference is the bond he has with John.
@@mlmii1933 have you ever played the game?
@@Kapech_the_first ...
I have, and I play attention to what Auther (even at high honor) says in the camp and NPC dialogs. ... He repeats himself multiple times to multiple people that he only saved Sean because Charles called him out.
Auther isn't a good man, and he reserves his blind loyalty for Dutch.
@@mlmii1933yeah, this is what I think about Arthur before Hosea's death
20:00 You can still find the remnants of the old camp overlooking Blackwater that was removed from the beginning of the game near where they are scoping the town for Sean. There's also a sketch in the journal showing where it is.
I never knew that
Please make a short video about this 🙏😢
@@Fizhy Micah was NOT the rat at the start, but he is smart and cunning, and he managed to fool Dutch.
The ferry job was probably (an obvious) trap that the likes of Hosea and Arthur would have skipped on. But then you have Dutch who is more of a showman, and less of an expert on the subject, he could get fooled. In the start of the game, you find a paper which has a speech Dutch prepared it even includes pieces such as "pause" and "look dramatic". Later on we see Dutch give that same speech, so this silver-tongued leader is basically a phoney.
Micah probably thought he can use Dutch and during the chaos get away with the money. It backfired as the gang lost some members, all their belongings, and the money. Dutch was smart enough to bury that money without the knowledge of Micah and the rest. Hence, Micah decided to stay with the gang longer than anticipated.
Later on, Arthur is tasked to rescue Micah from jail. You can either set him free with a prison break (or murder the guards), and what ensues is a shootout. You can also decide to NOT rescue him, and leave him to hang. The next thing you know, Micah has escaped some how. Then shortly after, Arthur gets a visit from Ross Pinkerton. This means that Micah made a deal with Pinkerton to hand in Dutch, in exchange for immunity. That's when he became their informant. The Pinkertons never just rushed in to the camp, because there could be civilian casualties, and also that the Van der Linde gang are expert marksman. They needed Micah to set a trap for Dutch so they can minimise the risks. Which could have been the Bank Heist where Hosea dies, because it goes downhill pretty fast after that, just like in Blackwater.
@@ekintekoyup and remember the outfit Micah used during the bank heist. There is an obvious reason he would wear all white
@@ekinteko true stuff
Dutch must have some fierce hatred for snow, and assumes others feel the same. Every time he's at his most desperate that's where he runs to. Maybe his east coast childhood was so wrought with trauma that the cold/snow seems something like a fortress, or a prison. It would also explain his affinity for the idea of Tahiti or other tropical locations, it's exactly the opposite of where he turns tail to. I can also see it as a bit of penance or self flagellation for him to return to that environment again and again.
And the same with the south. He was taken with the humid and soapy whether of Lemoyne when the gang first camped in Clemens' Point.
I think he farted really bad and the cops heard him
@@Alfreder28272 i'm just gonna use that to explain everything from now on.
- That massive storm that pushed the boat to Guarma? Dutch ripped a big one that made the waves dangerously high, storm got so bad as God cried from the smell of someone he no longer wants to take credit for creating.
- The Valentine Bank Robbery? Cops from all over the country heard that rip.
- John finding Micah and Dutch on top of Mount Hagen? You guessed it, it wasn't just the rat that smelled. none other than Dutch Flat u Lence was up there making a noise that ruptured the eardrums of armadillos.
@@Alfreder28272 is that canon
@@steaketc2476 no
A small theory:
Heidi McCourt was an interesting case in the Blackwater Massacre. Her name sticks out among everyone else that was lost during it. The Strange Man was present before the massacre, likely a premonition of the death that would follow, but he pays special attention to Heidi despite the massacre affecting multiple people.
Perhaps Heidi was not meant to die. But the actions of Micah and Dutch and the inaction of John and Javier and such led to her death.
Or perhaps she was the first of many tests The Strange Man would put upon the gang. A test for the gang as a whole. John and the rest of them on the ferry let the influence of Micah and Dutch stop them from saving Heidi.
True, but there is also another theory that Heidi was Dutch's strange man, much like Arthur with Jimmy Brooks.
@Ishan Goundar I think if anyone specifically is given Heidi as a test, it would be John more than anyone. The strange man says to John specifically that she is an important person in his life. She marks the moment where John starts to become disillusioned with Dutch's worldview.
I think the reason why Hedi McCourt name was mentioned more than any other person who was killed during the shootout was villainize the gang so people could stop idolizing the wild west version of knights. I would imagine people still remember the gang were sort of Robin hood men
Arthur claims to have seen a man resembling Trelawney at a distance... shortly before the blackwater massacre. Since Trelawney stated he only recently arrived at Blackwater after the lockdown... it means the Strange Man was there... watching, ready to collect the souls of many soon to be dead civilians, lawmen, bounty hunters and the Pinkerton militia... This also shows that this Grim Reaper like cosmic entity's presence must always considered to be a bad omen.
My guess is Heidi McCourt is a young married woman who was probably a socialite and (or) charity worker... who probably has a wealthy father and she has a large positive reputation... a living symbol of goodness, charity and humility, despite being super wealthy. A perfect person whom an imperfect person like Dutch or Micah would despise... and also the perfect person to use in propaganda to demonize the gang from robin hood like outlaws to sadistic domestic terrorists.
On all fronts, she’s a tool or a patron to the Strange Man’s influence to advance the plot or push the inevitable fate he can be apart on
almost 5 years and the games story is still so deep i love it
Wait wait wait, was RDR2 really that long ago???? Damn, I remember the day I bought the game as it was yesterday, really weird to see that October 26th 2018 was so long ago, my love for this game is as strong as it was when I played it, a true masterpiece.
@@garrotex4718 2023 doesnt feel real
I can’t still remember how badly I wanted that nice collectors box but sad they didn’t include the game hahah
@@verybigguy01it really doesnt.. sadly.
The story was written many years ago, all this is in the first game ya know
the $150,000 that they stole would be worth $5,560,319.28 in todays money
I heard somewhere from RD1 or 2 where Landon was a former lawman, so that could be how he was there to witness and deal with the robbery as an officer of the law there at the time
Landon was a vigilante in Blackwater during the time of the massacre. His involvement in it was revealed in an RDR1 newspaper but isn't something ever brought up in RDR2. I personally like that they left the Massacre ambiguous, but if they did show it, it would've been cool to see a younger Ricketts.
@@themadtitan7603 wouldn’t it be quite the plot point in the future if it’s revealed that Landon was the one who shot John? Only for them to eventually work together.
@@themadtitan7603 It's also possible his involvement is just a myth and he was never really there. Legendary gunfighter, legendary gunfight ... 2+2.
@@hornetguy9063 Yeah, I've always hoped they'd reveal Landon was the one who shot John. It'd make their team-up in RDR amazingly ironic.
@@Nomad416 Well, Landon was actually in Blackwater by 1899 but his involvement in the Blackwater Massacre could be simply a tall tale and not the truth as you said. Though it's stated as the reason he moved to Mexico in RDR1.
Maybe the man that resembles Trelawney was actually the Strange Man visiting the Town as some kind of omen of death. Most people probably just saw him like it is discribed in Armadillo (or maybe even what Arthur experienced) while some may have had more direct encounters simmilar to John. You might say he was making his accounts in preparation of the massacre...
Yep. The Red Dead Wiki even lists it as a possibility on the Massacre's page. I think the Strange Man followed Arthur on his entire journey similar to John; the man Arthur thought was Trelawny, as Jimmy Brooks in Chapter 2 like Fizhy said, in the cabin while the gang was camped near the swamps and possibly as the buck/wolf Arthur sees when he dies.
The strange man most likely had some sort of role in the massacre. The first time John meets him in RDR1, he alludes that he was present at the massacre referencing the girl Dutch shot.
That does make a lot of sense
@@pavan923 I think it's more likely that the Strange Man is an omnipresent force and knew what happened on the boat. He doesn't have to actually have a role in the massacre to know everything about it.
@@themadtitan7603 It could be both. I always had the sense he was bored and took an interest in the morality of man or lack of.
Micah may not have been working for the Pinkertons at the beginning, but he had to have set Dutch up with that ferry heist. He "saved" Dutch in that gold exchange, but maybe that isn't how it went down. Maybe he was with the other side in the exchange, but not being a team player he figured he could get all of the gang's money by betraying his comrade and ingratiating himself with Dutch. He plants the ferry job in Dutch's mind but has his own guys in the periphery watching over things so that when the time is right, Micah can make a break with all of the money. I am thinking Skinny may have been a point man in this regard which is one of the reasons he gets whacked when we release Micah from jail. Blackwater doesn't go like Micah thought it would so he has little choice but to tag along with the gang until he can find out where the money is and go back. Knowing Hosea, Arthur and John don't trust him, he does everything in his power to salt their relationship with Dutch and since by the time the reach Colter Dutch has lost touch with reality his job isn't so hard. He betrayed Arthur to the O'Driscolls for sure, and he intentionally tried to get the gang to move to Dewberry Creek which was completely indefensible. The whole bank robbery thing was his way to get rid of Hosea and with how easy the O'Driscolls found Shady Belle, he probably had a hand in that too, passing info to them about the bank job, one of those guys fingered Hosea and Abigal to the police. With Arthur sick and Hosea dead and John in prison, he had Dutch all to himself. He could plant even more dangerous thoughts into his mind while informing the Pinkertons the whole way. Once the gang is out of the way, he can go back and get the Blackwater money which he finally learned Dutch had on him the whole time.
So Micah caused everything
After numerous play throughs, I honestly believe Lenny is the original rat. Micah get turned after the Saint Denis bank job because Lenny gets killed.
@@jimmytheyoutubewatcher8002 Are you sure? Lenny being a rat is impossible, perhaps Jenny's death could be the result of that circumstances.
@@jimmytheyoutubewatcher8002 what evidence do you have for Lenny being the rat?
@@mike04574 Yes, yes he is. I got what was coming to him.
I just realized; Arthur’s pre-chapter 1 entry where Dutch was talking about California MAY be referring to that side quest in Redemption 1 where that Sam guy was trying to go there as well, kept getting crazier every time John / Jack saw him until he died. Not sure if that’s related or on purpose but it just came into my head
Nah i doubt it. It was the gangs intention to head out west but after the drama they caused in Blackwater they were stuck east and the more chaos that happens throughout the story kept pushing them back further and further away. It isn’t until like chapter 4 when Dutch says going to the west is pointless because they’ll be hunted there too and they decide to leave the country for Tahiti or Australia
How is that related other than both mentioning california?
@@angelo423 There’s this idealism of the west and freedom with this series that I connect to California, especially around that time in American history. It also seems like both parties, the Van Der Linde gang AND the Sam fellow constantly reach for that “Californian” (freedom) ideal yet fail to achieve it. Maybe I’m looking too deep for a connection but that’s coincidental for sure
@@angelo423 ESPECIALLY when you compare Dutch and Sam mentally. The more time passes, the more mentally unstable both become. Obviously one is a side quest and one is a full-fledged story, but the circumstances seem a bit too similar even in the difference with scale
The idea of California housing prices caused both to go mad
After reading his journal, it seems like "We shall see" was Arthur's favorite phrase.
I'd love to go back to the original beginnings of Dutch's gang, this will give us the full story of how the gang evolved into rdr2. Playing as Hose, Dutch and Arthur Morgan.
I'd prefer they just remade Red Dead Revolver and turned it into a fully fleshed out game.
I used to think this but honestly i think it would be tiring for people to play the same characters all over again for another game.
Nice for nostalgia, yes, and to paint a detailed backstory, but ultimately dull.
Why spend hours as people you already 'know', when a new game could introduce a new storyline and cast, maybe just a couple old names.
When you think about it, rdr2 did just that. It took old names referenced in rd1 and made whole near characters and stories for them.
How mad did you feel when you loaded in as this new 'arthur' fella when you wanted to be John.
Then at the end, suddenly you missed Arthur and didn't want to be John at all...
Rdr3 set in the 1880s end with black water or in WW1 in 1918 as jack
@@benjaminclarke7984 red dead revolver is mid as fuck no one's buying that dogshit
@@abrahamwashington8579 jack probably didn’t serve in ww1
We're going back in time! Also the fact, that this game went without any story dlc is a crime amongst itself 😅
It doesn't need it, some things are best left for the player to imagine, mystery and ambiguity are both extremely powerful tools in a story
@@georgeharmer7757it definitely deserves dlc, and new Austin is so empty that it feels unfinished
The only DLC we need is RDR1 remade. Also, an enhanced directors cut for the newest gen consoles would be awesome.
@@antthomas7916 I have a feeling that either won’t happen or won’t happen for a long time, they won’t even make good content for rdr I can’t imagine they would remake 1. They only care about GTA anymore 😅
@@antthomas7916 they canceled the remake
If they ever make a series based on the Red Dead series the need to dedicate the first episode (or hell even a 90 minute movie) to showing the Blackwater Massacre in it's entirety. It made since to keep it a mystery in game but for a TV show you need something to hook in an audience and what better way than with a huge bank heist and shoot out leading to the deaths of several gang members. They could even have the Callander brothers be the focus of the episode to fake out/gut punch people who never played the game when they get shot/captured at the end of the episode.
I feel like if a show or movie was to be made of Red Dead Redemption it should just carry the name, not show the van der ling gang maybe anthology from different times of the wild west, maybe show Red Harlow in his adventure since not a lot lore is known.
Knowing Hollywood's legacy for screwing up movies made from games its probably not a good idea. They would ruin the Red Dead world for us true fans with stupid ass woke F'ing bull shit like Arthur and Hosea being lovers, Dutch would be a black "transgender". You have a woman from every ethnicity in the camp and all the women of the camp would gather plants for them to eat. No hunting or meat eating allowed. And instead of horses they would use bicycles because using animals to ride is just mean. Oh yea, the biggest thing, NO GUNS! Instead everyone would throw sticks at each other. I mean really, the Red Dead world is like the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what the abysmal movie making industry is doing now a days. I mean really it would just be a platter of smoldering dig shit and all of us would be pissed.
Imho this is stupid, it's the same as showing Master Chief's face. The mystery is the best part of it and there's way better ways to start a show than with Michael Bay mindless action. There's a reason y'all aren't writers
Nah it should be something they hide until the final season maybe have the strange man eventually remind John of the events
If they show it the love they're showing The Last of Us, I would kill to see it. I would want it to be a prequel that ends with the Blackwater job.
My theory, and it's been that way since the first time I played; is that Micah planned it all as the big ol con, to get both the ferry money and Dutch's bounty in one go. After you spring him from Strawberry jail and rob that coach with him, you go back to his little camp outside Strawberry and you'll find some interesting things including Dutch's wanted poster (partiall burnt). Micah keeps going on and on throughout the game about the money stashed in Blackwater too and we know that he was the rat (even though Milton will claim it was only after Guarma, I doubt it to an extent). Micah may have been notorious but from what we could tell he wasn't infamous enough to basically have a shoot on sight reaction from the law or bounty hunters. I mean this guy causes so much chaos where ever he goes. Shooting up half of Strawberry and robbing that bank coach in a very loud fashion? I know that the chronology of certain missions and events are up to the player but I believe that the Pinkertons only found you near Horseshoe because of that coach robbery as your fishing spot was between camp and where that coach crashed. Where there's smoke, there's fire, if you get my drift.
But I'm not saying he was working for the Pinkertons back at that point. Ho no. See, I think we was using Dutch as a fall guy with the Blackwater Incident. He wanted that money for damn sure, but I feel like he also wanted to turn Dutch in for that reward on top of it. But because Dutch hid the money they stole and only he knew where, Micah couldn't just turn Dutch in yet. And despite Dutch taking a liking to him, Micah was still not in Dutch's inner circle like Arthur and Hosea, the two he trusted the most. So Micah spends more and more time trying to get Dutch to trust him, sucking up to him at every turn. He also needs Pinkertons to stay close. Not close enough that they'll take Dutch in as, again, he needs to know where the money is hidden. So he makes sure to leave some sort of trail via his chaos.
Now as much as he sucks up, it isn't going fast enough for him. And it doesn't help that Arthur is still proving himself to be Dutch's right hand. So he knows he's gotta get rid of Arthur if he wants to get closer to Dutch. So he basically aids in Colm's trap to get Arthur kidnapped by the Odriscolls, hoping more that Arthur will get himself killed in the process somehow. But Arthur escapes and pulls through. But the seeds of doubt in everyone are starting to be planted and while Bill and Javier stay loyal, the most vocal and direct in their support of Dutch continues to be Micah. Dutch sees this as he notices even Arthur and Hosea are losing faith. Now he needed a little more nudging. They fall into the trap in Saint Denis. Molly takes credit for tipping off Pinkertons but Milton said she gave them nothing and again, I'm still convinced this was Micah. Oh he knew they'd escape but guess who didn't. Hosea. They captured him first and shot him in front of Dutch. I am convinced this was part of Micah's plan. He needed Hosea and Arthur out of the way and now he got Dutch's most trusted advisor and friend killed. Now he had a spot at Dutch's ear which he uses eagerly and non-stop. We see that he keeps pushing Dutch further and further and effectively in this way gets himself in the position to replace Arthur on top of it. But now the final thing he needed was one score, one final act to basically cement it in Dutch's head to go back for the Blackwater money, that was in the robbing of the army payroll. Unfortunately things went south far too quick and it fell apart as the gang dissolved, Arthur revealed Micah as the traitor and broke Dutch completely ensuring that he'd never truly find out where the money was. THat is until years later when Dutch's sanity was officially gone and he resolved to kill Micah by pretending to wanna work together again and reclaim the money. Micah thought he'd finally fulfill his plan.
This is my personal theory.
I really like this theory. Personally if I was Dutch, I would have questioned why Micah kept bringing the money in Blackwater up. It raised too many red flags for me and made me very suspicious of him from the get go. Plus how he, as you mentioned, kept sucking up to Dutch along with how he treated a lot of the gang members made me not trust a word he said.
@@cassandraboteler8115 the beuty of dutch played like he was smart and cunning while had no idea and didn't notice a thing...if you notce that was hosea's job. once he was dead and gone he needed a new person to think for him ergo micha comes walking in becuase arthur even though he was in the inner circle arthur never was at camp much doing things left and right for everyone. while micha (who did nothing) took the time to be the replacement for hosea.
see if you think about it when hosea and dutch did things together it worked becuase hosea would come up with a plan, and dutch would act like it was his plan (or hosea made him think he thought it up hosea was a con man probably knew dutch had a big ego and the only way to make him do something was to make him think he thought of it) and then he would tell everyone his grand plan.
edit: hosea comes with the plan and how to con dutch into thinking he came up with the plan to do the right job
dutch: reherses his speach of said plan to make himself like this all knowing god and then makes arthur execute the plan
arthur: executes and deligates plan
after hoseas death
dutch: can't think of a damn plan send arthur on random shit to do to stall while he tries and fails to think of a plan
micha: slips in cons dutch (like hosea would) into doing what he wants and makes him think he came up with these great plans that ulitmatley would only help micha not the gane
arthur: sick as a dog having to keep everything calm while doing random shit that dutch sent him on, while he does that micha slips in and pushes arthur out enough to keep fooling dutch
in the end dutch is an idiot whos is just playing a gang leaderr.IMO
@@linkerman300 Fair point. I Don't think he was just an idiot though. I think he was a narcissist who bit off more than he could chew being a gang leader. In typical narcissist fashion, he just couldn't admit that he was wrong so he'd blame a job going wrong or there camp being discovered on anyone but himself. That or he would try and save face and say " This is all part of my plan, don't worry ". Especially later game.
Convincing!
I was like I'm only gonna watch 10 mins of this video & leave the rest for later but suddenly I'm on 39:00 and there's only 2 mins left, top tier presentation & great commentary.
I wouldn't mind if you did the whole story with this style of video, it's great!
I’ve got a great theory about why the Pinkerton’s knew about the black water ferry job. They way in which it’s described suggests that the Pinkerton’s definitely had some prior information about the job and a lot of people think Micah was the rat from the start, and not chapter 6 like Milton says. However I think that it’s actually colm o Driscoll that is the rat throughout the entire game. Colm says in chapter 3 that the Pinkerton’s offered him a deal but they didint say when. I think that after the van der Linde gang escaped into the grizzlies (not the events of the game but before the game as Arthur’s journal describes) the Pinkerton’s found colm o driscoll (it would have been likely they were looking for him anyway as he would have been the second biggest outlaw behind Dutch. Milton always wanted Dutch as he was the big fish so Colm tried to bargain and give him Dutch. We know Colm has clearly been easy to capture as Arthur says he’s been on the gallows a lot of times in chapter 6. Arthur also mentions in chapter 1 that they hadn’t ran into the o driscolls in black water and that’s because there leader Colm was in talks with the Pinkerton’s. Colm knew Dutch was about black water and the Pinkerton’s set up the ferry job as bait. Dutch took the bait thanks to Micah and the Pinkerton’s were there to surround them. However Dutch got away so Milton would have gone back to Colm and told him that he would hang him unless he got Dutch, thus resulting in Colm to set the trap with Arthur for Dutch in chapter 3, but the plan failed once again. Milton would have kept using Colm to try and get to Dutch but after he got Micah who would be a better rat, Milton had no use for Colm, so he was sentenced to hang in chapter 6 like we saw. This helps solves the mystery of why the black water heist went so wrong, and it was the fault of Colm o driscoll
EDIT: pls like so fizhy can see this and maybe make a video because I think it’s a cool theory
Excellent theory 🤠
but how did colm know dutch was at black water at the time, the ferry was the trap ergo the pinkertons would have to have known dutch was in blackwater at that exact time.. but dutchs gang didn't even know where colm was atm so how did colm know where dutch was.
@@linkerman300 we know that the o driscolls were around everywhere even if they weren’t with Colm as they were such a big gang, Colm would have heard along the grapevine the whereabouts of the van der Linde gang by a few gang members having been spotted after they came down from the grizzlies to Blackwater, as a lot of o driscolls were holed up in the mountains anyway during the game, and they were most likely there before also as Arthur said he hadn’t seen many, they probably weren’t trying to draw attention to themselves as they were trying to trap the van der Linde gang
@@linkerman300 "Colm always has good information".
-Dutch
Chapter 1, Colter
Yeah, my theory is that Micah was an O'driscoll and then later in chapter 6 informant to Pinkertons
Edit. I'm too tired to write out my whole theory rn, because it's 4 am for me but I'll do it if you're interested
The gang before blackwater: "we do a bit of trolling"
The gang after blackwater: "so it seems you've chosen... death."
Blackwater was the beginning of the end of Dutch's cult of personality. Micah brought out the worst in Dutch, and, (as we saw with Arthur in Strawberry), creates chaos that draws others in. My take? Dutch was always harboring all his bad traits the entire time of the gang's existence, but was able to hide it better because of circuit breakers like Arthur and Hosea, who were "true believers" in the 'cult'; both believed in being a 'better' type of outlaw, but both also ignored the long standing signs that Dutch was a megalomaniac and unstable. The gang had been on the run for years and had been in the decline far before Blackwater, but I feel the game paints out that Micah's addition to the gang pushed Dutch to take off his mask and reveal the psychotic underneath when he killed the girl while Hosea and Arthur were away during the Blackwater caper. That's when the fallibility of Dutch really showed itself as they lost so many people all at once. Arthur, Hosea, and John, Dutch's closest acolytes in the gang, all started to question Dutch's decisions, and the more they did, the more Dutch revealed what he really wanted: control over them. They were never a "gang" in Dutch's mind regardless of the rhetoric he used: he wanted FOLLOWERS who believed in him. Micah is really brilliant as a manipulator, making it seem like he's the only 'true' believer in the pack, and John, Arthur, and Hosea learn the hard way that Dutch was never the man he believed them to be.
Excellent writing, all the way around, and beautifully acted!
The strange man was there. I think the girl Dutch killed during black water is the same girl the strange man references seeing Dutch kill in RDR1 when talking to John
It is, Heidi McCourt. She's mentioned in an RDR2 newspaper and Strange Man says she was the girl killed on the ferry robbery.
The strange man does reference heidi mccourt. Its in the video
I always love the aesthetic your RDR videos have. A little creepy like a story around a campfire.
Man, this failed "heist" is much more than meets the eye. Your work is great, thank you for the in depth analysis.
Man you had me with the “sit down with a brew and biscuit” I literally just opened up a beer. Great content! If you ever are looking for someone to help edit scripts or with lore research or even just pronunciations I would love to help out!
I just spewed liquid shit all over my couch
@@Alfreder28272 Hell ye
6:21 Oh I never thought of that! But yea that’s actually true. “We heard talk of a man sounding like Trelawny, but we haven’t seen him for many months” that could totally be a hint that it wasn’t Trelawny at all, but the Strange Man!
I’m so glad Fizhy is doing these Re-visited videos. There is so much new info to pick up!
When they talk about Dutch shooting that girl, I used to think that Micah probably co-erced him but that was Dutch's mask slipping and he was becoming what he always was
No John literally says Micah encouraged it so he was involved too. But Dutch was still the one to pull the trigger instead of having the strength and reserve not to like a true leader would have
I actually think that the journal references The Strange Man rather than Trewlany. In Red Dead Redemption 1, John does ask the Strange Man if he has seen him before, which infers to me that "the man sounding like Trewlany" mentioned in Arthurs journal, is indeed the Strange Man.
The intro does a masterful job of setting the tone for the rest of the game. I love it so much.
Both the intro and the game as a whole, I mean, of course.
The fact you revisit to update content is why I'm subbed. Absolutely love the work and the great quality.
The whole world of Red dead is just amazing, the strange man, the mystery shrouding the previous events, it’s all a master class in narrative and world building
Rockstars world building and writing is peak
This topic is exactly how I found your channel in the first place so funny you're doubling down on it now, thanks for that - loved this video too.
Always love the re visit series! Ty for all you hard work.
32:40 this was when the penny dropped for me. After a whole year of attempting to answer the question of where the money in Blackwater was stashed, it was right in front of us the whole time. Dutch hid the money in his mother's grave. The fact he says 'even from the grave she managed to have the last laugh' strongly implies the irony of the situation of Dutch succeeding in making himself wealthy, against his mother's morals, just to have this wealthiness taken away due to the circustances of not being able to recover the money he robbed. And the money was in his mother's grave, who dispproved of his attitude.
Man your video essays are absolutely great quality and love that you go into great detail. Keep it up.
These are so well made! I love your deep dive style on details of the story.
Very good breakdown. Thanks for putting it all together for us!!
im gonna do everything and anything to make sure i get every piece of content out of rdr2 story mode, from side missions to sitting around the camp fire. “this is gonna be awesome!” - Dom
Great watch and breakdown as always 👊🏿... happy holidays and cheers to 2023 🎉🍻
- heidi mccourt
- callanders boys
- lenny kirk
- how van der linde gang made
- blackwater massacre
and we play as arthur in the end rdr3 maybe
Just been patiently waiting for rdr2 content. So happy to see more
Yes! Thank you Fizhy, I go back to the original upload of this all the time since I want to know what happens
This video is so good I’m subscribed, I respect the dedication to good investigative journalism and fantastic video editing. Keep it up.
I am just still so struck in awe about how much this game is an absolute superb piece of art
You videos are always so high quality thank you for your entertainment! :D
Idk why but i keep listening to him tell the story over and over again is so nice his voice is like a campfire story at night❤
Glad you make these in-depth look at the storyline. I played RD1 and I'm near the end of RD2. I lost track of the story, and this helps putting pieces together.
Love your content mate
Keep the good stuff coming 👍
I have to say the resolution you have here on the game footage is so GOOD! It looks pretty well real like a movie! I wish I could set my PC to render resolution so clear and beautiful. It is nice enough but what you have here is ACES. When I played this game the first time I didn't think I'd like it... I got hooked pretty fast and am still playing after both epilogues. John doesn't hang around Beecher's Hope much though... Jack always seems to be looking at him with such despise and Abigail treats him like crap. Uncle, well we all know about him LMAO. I've logged SO many hours. I just like to mess around, travel, go camping and do odds and ends of side missions as they appear. My dexterity isn't very good as I have bad arthritis so not very good at shooting. Anyway, I love these videos and find it fascinating that SO many people are not only still playing but investigating and still trying to get to Mexico 🤣 through some "hidden secret" (?) stuff. I don't care about any of that but I do like to go to the ends of the "map" and see what happens. I did like Guarma and wish they'd have had more to do there. It was pretty for one and totally different that the main map. Anyway, I never really read much of Arthur's journal and as John had decided to check it out more. Had no idea there was so much written by Arthur previous to our intro chapter of the game. I found it fascinating. The problem is it takes a lot of patience to really read through and try to understand all of it. I have forgotten a lot of my play as Arthur except for specific things. I loved Arthur as hated him getting sick! His coughing and weakness made me crazy and of course sad! I rarely write such long comments on CZcams videos so you inspired me. 👍
Absolutely love your coverage of anything red dead redemption 2 related
Always great quality with your videos, kudos sir 👍
Plz keep the red dead videos rolling I can’t get enoughhhhh
In rdr1 it's heavily implied the black water heist and John leaving the gang are the same event, "I got shot they left me and I left them" so this story really had a good amount of retcons
Ya that's true
Either that or the last train robbery before aurthors demise
Absolutely terrific detail , these videos are most enjoyable
This was great, thank you for revisiting this. I loved it so much I watched twice 👍🤠
amazing video as always. my fav RDR2 CZcamsr
I just called my dad and he was watching one of your other vids while i was watching this one 😂😂😂 your vids are getting views from multiple generations man. Keep it up!
I knew all this but this is like watching an awesome A&E documentary of a real story . More please 😊
I can't explain how much I love your videos ❤ Always brilliant! The voice over, the music, the editing, the many many hours and effort put into researching, organizing, recording, and editing. You sir are awesome. I say that alot but when I see (and immediately dive into your videos of amazing deep dives) I just can't help but watch, listen, and enjoy everything you put together for us. Fucking AWESOME! Based, the best, incredible, OG, pioneer, prodigy, you name it, thats you friend. ❤ Thank you and God bless!!!
23:37 "Enjoy your fishing, kid, while you still can", fast forward about 15 years and Jack kills Ross while he is out fishing. 10/10 writing.
Ross was duck hunting
This is very well made, you deserve more attention haha
Blackwater massacre is reserved as a theme for future games in the series. I agree with you about Jimmy Brooks being the Strange Man himself. His appearance feels very strange. The game notes it like something important and then never mentions it.
Yeah, if anything I wish the Strange Man was a side-quest in this game too and in it they would heavily hint but not confirm that he was in fact Jimmy Brooks.
I personally do not think their will be another red dead redemption game.
@scriptednetwork836 there's so much potential story wise for Rockstar, whether it's a prequel about the formation of the gang and ending with the Blackwater Massacre, or going even further back and starting a new story about a famous outlaw during the height of the Wild West.
The interest has to be there, I think there will be an RDR 3. It's more of a matter of when then why.
@@scriptednetwork836one of the most sold games of all time (and their absolute best), I'm sure they'll make another one
Hey brother just wanted to say, great video. I know this took a lot of work. Very well done, very enjoyable, easy to follow, great pacing... Thank you for the great breakdown.
When I saw this video was released I literally yelled OOOOHHHHH YESSS!!!! Just thought I'd let you know. Really appreciate your content for this amazing game
Fun fact you can find Dutch’s moms headstone in the blackwater cemetery
So with the Jimmy Brooks poem, it’s only a true limerick if you save him. The rhyme scheme is broken and it’s no longer a limerick if you kill him. That’s kind of interesting.
Great video. Watching before starting RDR2 again and it’s getting me so excited
Ahh man, I love rdr2. Never had a chance to play rdr1 because we didn't have a playstation ever at home when I was a kid. Yesterday I put this mysteries revisted playlist on when I went to sleep and jesus your voice helped me sleep do good. Thank you, you should read a audiobook or somrthing.
You really got me into all of the red dead mysterious and deep lore and i love these videos ty Mr funny european guy
Great video man!
this was such a well crafted video, you deserve 1 million subs if not more
this was fantastic, thanks for the hard work WOW
A Blackwater DLC would have been amazing as it's something that greatly affects not only our two playable leads (i do not count Jack), but also so many of the side characters. I want to seeeeee it.
rdr3 is a prequel to the prequel. we will probably see blackwater heist then.
I think the Blackwater Massacre is best off as something the audience never sees. The air of mystery around it is what makes it so compelling, in my opinion.
@@zaidabraham7310 no, it should be playable. we want to know what happened, and what it looked like.
@RDR2Person Its normal to *want* to see what happened. But that doesn't mean it will be better to see what happened.
Off-screen events is a narrative tool that is used constantly in literature. It was a deliberate choice by the writers to leave the Blackwater Massacre unseen by the audience, and I think it works very well.
Imagine how much shittier The Dark Knight would have been if we saw flashbacks of Joker's origin, for example. Instead of the unreliable narration that we got of his childhood.
@@zaidabraham7310 well when rdr3 comes out (near 2026) then we will see the black water massacre
Cracking video, love some RDR content
Just came back after 4 years….missed you my guy
I always loved the lore and just the design of the game, love these videos on it
Thanks for making this fizhy. The massacre is one of the more mysterious events in red dead redemption
Awesome video as always man. Still amazing how we never got DLC for this belter of a game, so much they could have expanded on. Unless it’s being saved for RDR3 😂
Love your red dead videos literally the only person still making content on it good work!
havent visited this channel in a while, last time i remember was when fizhy streamed The witcher 3, perfect timing since i finished rdr2 2-3 weeks ago for the first time
The thought that Micha may have been involved with the Pinkertons from the start gave me chills
Great video. Maybe sometime take a look at RDO. Such as the timeline our created character appears in and where other known character are at that point in time.
i think rdo is in 1998 not 1899
@@axdde6428 its a 0 time it has been said
@@axdde6428bruh Nah it’s ain’t is definitely not in 1998 lol if that were the case, we should be seeing cars and people dressing up regularly
@@AnimeLuffyFan I think they meant 1898 which is true, it takes place 1 year before RDR2.
1 minute and 32 seconds in, and this feels like a true crime episode of Buzzfeed Unsolved, which I used to watch several years back. Already love this.
Thoroughly enjoyed this, cheers.
In 30 years when we get red dead 3, i can’t wait to experience it from mac’s perspective.
We really need an rdr3 that’s another prequel with black water being one of the final missions.
Micah being undercover the whole time seems way to fitting
I honestly love this "Chapter zero" part of Arthur's journal. It gives a great deal of story before tbe events of the ferry job that changed everything.
Something I don't see people bring up is also the possibility that Micah is just plain evil. We already see that with how he treats Cain the dog and eventually finding out he kills Cain and his love of getting in situations that turn into bloodbaths. At least in my opinion I don't think it's far off to assume that Micah is a psychopath.
I genuinely think that's the case and that people are complicating a straightforward, yet ambiguous story with trying to argue he was the rat from the beginning. Nonetheless, I don't think Micah set up Dutch but he was mainly only after that Blackwater money and intended to ditch the gang afterwards.
“ The man in a top hat” sounds like the strange man. He did tell John that he saw girl get shot on the ferry in rdr1, so i imagine him hanging around blackwater around the time of the ferry heist. Trewlayne wouldnt have said that he heard about the robbery and went to check it out if he was already in town
No it was definitely Trelawney. He says that he was in Blackwater and that’s how he knew Sean was arrested and not killed. The strange man is supposed to represent a god like figure so why do you think he’d have to physically be there to know about it, as if he hasn’t been watching everyone every second of their lives in an omnipresent fashion. It’s literally as Fizhy said too if there was more to it than it could make the strange man likely but the fact that Arthur specifically says Trelawny, and the fact that Trelawny is later confirmed to have been there, it puts 2 and 2 together
Strange man theories are like an itch that you can't stop itching. It always leaves you wanting more.
Noticing that during the confrontation with the Pinkerton's Arthur's hand doesnt rest on his pistols grip.
Meanwhile in most of mine hes itching to draw on the Pinkerton's but holds back only because of jack.
Karma differences in cutscenes are cool
There's a ton of retcons in RDR II. It doesn't bother me too much because it doesn't alter the overall narrative/story to any great degree. That said, in the original RDR, Ricketts supposedly joined the law during the massacre. At least that's what I recall. Another big change seemingly is that there were many more people involved in the original explanation of events.
That wouldn’t be a retcon tho
Randomly felt like watching read dead content again and got curious about blackwater. Very convenient thank you
Thank you for the video. I watched it all.
just because you’re still there javier doesn’t mean that dutch is still a good person- i think at the beginning dutch definitely loves some of his gang like a family but overtime he’s become less loving and just plain manipulative masked as love