Does the HeyGears PRM Work?
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- čas přidán 21. 03. 2024
- @HeyGears released the PRM: Pulsing Release Module. Less peel force, so prints are FASTER and USE LESS RESIN! Let's find out HOW FAST and HOW MUCH RESIN!
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Cool device to add, over time it would save some money but not for the $650 price tag
hmm this makes me wonder if the printer without the release module could have also printed with the settings chosen for the printer WITH the module.... because doesn't this all rely on having chosen different settings in your slicer? Like you still have to choose a different lift speed right? Meaning I feel like to really get a true understanding of if it works, it's almost like you'd need 3 printers. 1 printer with the release module and tunes settings for it.... another printer without the release module with those EXACT tuned settings.. and then another printer with longer lift speeds to show what was really needed to get the same successful print. If the printer without the release module that also has those tuned settings fails, but the printer without the release module with it's different setings succeeds, and then the printer WITH the release module is successful, then I think you could say it definitely works.
I completely agree. It wasn't scientific. It felt like an ad. Of course, the 1 was faster. The files were configured to be faster. He didn't share why those settings were appropriate for one and not the other. Some config prints are all that would be necessary to justify the different settings. Otherwise, it is just theatre. He was comparing apples to oranges. Even that the 1 print failed doesn't prove anything.
I have a great interest in reducing the stripping force. I'm imagining if, through this module, my need for supports could be greatly reduced, or even envision a scenario without any supports at all. This is what I most hope to see. I'm looking forward to seeing more test videos.
No footage of it in use?
Seems like marketing video.
Working on it in a follow up. There isn’t much to see when it’s powered on. I believe it’s a small air compressor.
@@3DPrintingNerd that costs $650 😅 Someone is going to figure out how to do this with a cheap ultrasonic devicd
@@Hilmi12 If ultrasounds can be used, maybe someone could just attach the transducers to the printer itself so they power on after the UV light source powers off every layer, kind of a reverse resinlapse, but it works when the UV is off instead of when it's on
@@3DPrintingNerd Look up the good old "blow peel" from Photocentric, by cutting and pasting this into your favorite search engine: "Blow-Peel and Vat-Lift Technology".
_The mystery of the $650 re-purposed fish tank air blower type unit will be solved_
It's always something with you, smh
🤣
Note: the control electronics and interface between the printer and the blower unit adds some complexity, on the level of one of those time-lapse switches, but not $650 worth, LOL
Awesome test! Great to see the results you got with these models. During our internal tests, we have seen that generally the larger the format of the model, the greater time and resin savings. This should make the Pulsing Release Module especially beneficial for people printing with full build platforms, or are frequently printing and looking to maximize their output. With fewer supports the final surfaces should need less sanding and finishing too!
Not a fair comparison, you have to run the same print settings and speed up both machines until one fails. You don’t know if you could have achieved those settings on the standard machine.
so you will not have video comparation because all would fail.
@@rubendariovelez I think the point is you incrementally change the speed/support values and take the best possible set of parameters that each machine succeeds with to use for the comparison and to see what the actual savings are.
It's a fair point that this would be the only real way to get to the most realistic values based on what is realistically achievable for each machine. Otherwise you are just comparing two arbitrary lost of settings without knowing whether they actually represent the limitations of each machine or not.
I agree with that. In terms of reducing stripping force, I believe we can entertain bolder ideas, such as printing models without supports. I feel this module has sparked my imagination even further.
Wow, thanks dude. Much love for all the showcase work. I'll have to look into one of these printers my self.
Thanks for making such awesome stuff!
I feel like there should have been config prints printed with the same settings to see the actual difference with and without this device.
Saying that this device saves time and resin doesn't show that it actually is because they are printing different settings.
This just feels like an ad.
exactly - test limits of with / without "magic speaker"
Awesome, I always knew this was possible!!!
Bet you could do a cheap diy device and get close to the same performance
Why not use an ultrasonic probe placed in the resin vat?
I thought something similar, though you might want to vibrate the vat itself and not the resin pool. The other consideration is how to pulse the vibrations during the layer change and not just always on. You would probably get print artifacts and failures if you vibrate during curing.
Timing the vibration to just as the light goes off and the peel starts may definitely work.
I'm familiar with this printer; a friend recommended this to me. When I delved deeper into understanding this printer, I was surprised to find that it performed excellently, especially when printing large solid parts. I haven't explored this module before, but I'm very excited about the possibility of reducing supports in printing. I hope to cut down on the time spent sanding, allowing me to focus more on my design. I'm looking forward to seeing more test videos on reducing supports.
hey, can bamboo AMS use the harder tpu's or will in need to go to an idex to print 2 color tpu
Just find someone with a large subwoofer and set the printer on it while playing a bass test pattern.
😂😂😂😂
Let me give it a try.
I guess a couple of questions/points.
Did you try printing the model file with the PRM settings/supports on the non PRM machine just to check whether they would indeed actually have failed without the PRM?
On the resin used/saved, I assume this is based on the values given by the slicer, which would account for the resin required to create the model plus the supports. In reality though there is a fair amount of additional waste resin due to the amount which coats the print (and gets washed off). In my experience this increases the amount of resin used a not insubstantial amount of the overall resin used. Assuming this would be much the same for the PRM and non-PRM prints of any particular model, this would drag the actual % saving from the PRM down a bit (I guess the only way to know would be to weigh the resin vats before and after printing to see how much resin was actually used... unless you di this, in which case I'll shut-up!)
Seems like putting a Transducer in the frame of the vat or vat base would be a billion times more effective; than using puffs of air directed at the printer body. Requiring less power/materials.
The data for pulse timing could be set in the slicer. The build structure could easily be vibration isolated with gaskets/bushings, or sensitive components mounted on anti vibration mounts. This seems like it would be more effective and cost less.
The perfect solution to take advantage of the extremely narrow window available to speed up resin printing, just not best application.
Hey Joel! How does it work? Does it get installed inside the printer?
It’s attached in the back and a different vat is used to allow the air in. I have a follow up planned to show that!
@@3DPrintingNerd Oh awesome! It's a very creative solution for sure!
Would have bin nice to see both numbers side by side, butt interesting metrics either way; it's amazing how much faster all types of printing have bin getting
My understanding was it simply syncs with the retraction and pumps air below the feb film removing the suction making the print release easier thus allowing you to use much lighter supports. Ross at Faux Hammer was down to 50um supports which is nuts. The supports just fall off after printing leaving little to no effect on the model. Now just need a couple thousand dollars extra to buy the printer and the PRM module . $1399.00 for the printer and $695.00 not to mention the 60-70 dollars HeyGears resin for their special 385 nm UV .
It's cool that the printer can theoretically use less resin due to needing lighter supports. In practice though, I don't think we're quite there yet with autosupports for most resin prints. The vast majority of what I print is going to be supported by hand. Sometimes by me, but usually by someone hired by the original modeler or the original modeler themselves. In those cases, it's just going to be a pure speed boost.
I'm more interested in peel force reduction as it applies to accuracy and less warpage as opposed to speed increase.
Does this need to be sliced separately? I assume that the supports are made thinner by the slicer for the one that uses the PRM, and also change the duration of the build plate movement.
When using the Pulsing Release Module (PRM) with the UltraCraft Reflex, just select the PRM option in the Blueprint Studio slicing software and it will automatically adjust the printing parameters during the pre-processing - including the support diameter, contact point size etc., no need to manually adjust the separate settings. Hope that helps!
I have only used filament printers so far. I have yet to turn my garage into a resin dungeon 🤔🥽🥼😷🧤 Maybe someday 😉 Thanks for keeping up with newer technologies Joel 👍
Great video! Are you curing the models then removing the supports? That makes the removal much harder than just washing them and a bit of heat to remove the supports. They come off almost effortlessly that way. I’d like to see more resin printing content in the future. 😎
Any chance you could do a test with an upturned motor and an offset weight to see if it yields the same results? Maybe even connect a microcontroller and see if you can't time its pulses to when the printer finishes a given layer and starts the tilt process? It would be cool to see someone DIY this and improve the overall resin printing field.
Would heygears vs formlabs speed comparison would have been good test?
I love your videos Joel but this sounds like hogwash to me... It's a box that sits next to the printer and does what exactly. No real info on their website either and 650$ SMH
I do believe it saves time and resin. Time from being able to peel faster, resin from having smaller supports. If those supports would also support the normal model we won't know cause I don't think he tested/tried (except for the skull, where even the stronger ones Brooke).
But not even mentioning the price (except for it being visible in a screenshot) is kind of shady. Cause that buys a lot of resin! Not too mention their printer being much more expensive than most in the same class, too.
Seems like this device generates high frequency vibrations and, by sitting close to the printer, transfers the vibrations via the shared surface of the desk? In this case, having the reference printer sharing the same desk surface would cause it to potentially benefit from the same effect when printing at the same time. Would love to see a follow-up with fairer test conditions.
@@KayMan2kAn actual test would be nice. This was just using two different settings. Those settings may require the little device or they may not. We can't know from just one test print (per model and setting).
@@KayMan2kanole said it uses air to create the high frequency vibrations.
If it transfer vibrations thru air, then it won't be ultra sonic. And then, why not just shake motor?
Would love to see a tested/demo version of this. Maybe someone might send this to greatscott to compare in his diy or buy series.
Thanks for taking the time to show us this add on device. It seems like a cool idea, but also being more money than a lot of people would pay for a printer, and you still need to the printer, so I'm not sure it will sell well for them.
If they could have gotten it to print much much faster, I could see people (especially people who sell what they print) spending the money for it.
I'm curious if a year from now, some companies may put something like this tech into the machine itself.
High-5!
I'm probably going to Rapid TCT in a few months. Hope to run into you while checking out the new tech. I haven't gotten an in person high-5 from you in over a year. So I'm over due. LOL
Thanks for the video.
Shure vibration wil decrease the peel force needed. So it can print faster becouse of faster lift speeds. But how on earth can it decrease the amount of resin used, if the model with the supports is the same. The volume doesn’t charge. Or did i mis something, like using auto support specifically attuned for the model with the vibration module (resulting in smaller or less supports) and the other one without the vibration module optimization resulting in a higher vollume.
Also exposure time (under or over exposed) there will be a difference in volume.
I hope you can adres this.
Ps. The volume of resin used how did you measure it. The calculations of the slicer? I personally don't trust those. Example slicer tells me it wil take 3 hours but actually it takes 3 hours and 40 minutes to complete
The prusa SL1S is probably competitive on speed or better still
Great video my friend
Thank you bro!
So the printer knows it has the module and automagically changes the procedure? Or did you have to use different profiles?
You tell the printer it had the module and it will configure itself automatically
Am I right in assuming you can only use this device with there printers and vats?
I have a 3D printer and am wondering if you know how to take off layer lines. If you know how to do that I would appreciate if you could tell me.
In my case I would use sandpaper. Sanding 3d prints can take away layer lines and get them ready for priming and painting.
What if I make a retractable sword and I can not get to some of the layer lines what should do?
Couldn't you achieve this via firmware update by making the z movements after every layer have the motor tuned for high vibration when going up in the Z axis? It sounds weird trying to make the motors vibrate when usually you try to mitigate that.
April fools day came early ?
I had to check calendar.
I ♥ spreadsheets!
Spreadsheets love you! Please tell me you’ve seen the guy on TikTok that makes videos about using Excel
@@3DPrintingNerdI haven't 😭I did learn recently there's a Microsoft Excel
World Championship every year though 😁
I appreciate what is trying to be done however current post-processing is hardly a gruelling chore. I'm confused over the resin saving, too.
Thanks for your interest in the PRM! By using the Pulsing Release Module to lower the peeling force, the required diameter and density of the supports needed to achieve a successful print can be reduced, thereby allowing for decreased amount of resin used in the support structures. This generally means more resin saved with prints that require a lot of supports. The overall reduction in support quantity and the size of the contact points should also make it easier for people who spend time sanding the bumps left by supports to get a smooth surface.
How do you know you couldn't print faster on the regular printer?
The dragon skull seems to a really long print for such a small model. I don't think that would take me more than 2-3 hours.
There still were some missed opportunities to utilize "utilize", in my opinion. And some footage of it being utilized.
[ explanation ] I explained how this machine works, but my comment dissapeared. Probably again bug of youtube.
It's air pump for that specific printer. It pressures eather area under vat or double layer screen so the screen bends up and releases layer.
To find how it works, don't go to their page, don't just go to their promo video... go to their promo video and there is link for "the launch live stream" where they explain it in 2:20
I would not cal it High Frequency Vibrations - you can't go over like 100Hz with high pressured air in long thin plastic tube. More like 10Hz.
How were the settings between the two, in the slicer specifically because that makes a huge difference. You kinda need the same settings, then the optimized for both and see if that also shows these differences. If they remain big, it may be worth it, but 700 Dollars seems very steep, I guess it's likely just a pump blowing precise sheets? of air.
The settings aren’t exposed to the user in their slicer. I’m going to see if I can find out.
Unfortunately, the testing method as presented is flawed and doesn't provide any conclusions. Perhaps if you had used the same speed and support settings for both printers and shown consistent failures with the non-PRM prints we could deduce a difference. We don't have evidence that the non-PRM prints couldn't perform with the same settings, aside from the single failure you encountered.
The thing that would concern me is damage to the screen. Usually you don't want to shake your screen. If you're pulsing your resin I can't see how they would keep those vibrations away from the screen.
Rig the algorithm!
huh... kinda wondering im my air purifier running high speed on the rack has been helping over the years lol
does this work even better with a faster resin?
That I don’t know. HeyGears resins aren’t marked as “fast” or “not fast” - not sure about 3rd party resins.
oh also, a trick i have for removing supports: put the model in hot/warm water and remove right after taking it out. this way the supports are much weaker than the model (due to them being so thin) and it makes it a fucking BREEZE
Stefan needs to test the effects on strength.
Did you switch which printer has the PRM? That way the gains are isolated to just the PRM and not a "better" printer. They may be the same model, but it is unlikely they are made by the same person using the exact same pressures and tolerances during assembly.
No not this round but I may in a follow up. I like this idea.
hey, where are all the links for the used models in the description? xD
They are all there
Been on a Hazbin kick lately. Been debating doing the printed obsession miniatures with a .2 because I just work with fdm more....
DO IT!
Did the slicer auto calculate supports and speed or did you have to do it manually? Auto I could see but if you manually did it I would have taken it to the max it could do like others have said.
Everything was auto calculated by the slicer. You pick the machine and what type of tank (normal or PRM) and then it auto sets everything.
@@3DPrintingNerdcool thanx!
@@3DPrintingNerdThen it should be easy enough to test if the PRM settings will indeed need the PRM to be present.
What if any changes are being made in the slicer? This video seems to be missing key information.
The slicer for the UltraCraft Reflex, Blueprint Studio, will automatically apply some parameter changes when the PRM is selected and used. Those parameters cover a range of different things including support diameter, support contact point size, support quantity, build plate movement etc. to balance with the reduced peeling force that the PRM provides.
What prevents me from just making one myself?
I doubt this thing is complex enough to cost anywhere near that much.
Im also skeptical about how vague the principle of operation is, i hope someone does a teardown.
Might as well optimize your print cycles by putting more in each cycle and at that point you might as well buy a bigger printer instead.
Development time? I can't afford this solution but hope it gets supported purely because this is actually something NEW. I look forward to others taking the idea and dyi'ing it.
Not a resin guy, but a $1,400 printer that wants a $650 software controlled vibrator (ultrasonic). When the industry cost and price of resin printing is massively improving?
The technology is a cool innovation though.
I am sure another company with business sense will take the opportunity to actually sell it to the community soon.
well this are professional printer, you can see elegoo, anycubic and the others they gonna improve this in like 8 years haha, you can see the saturn 4 no vat heater, thats the real problem in this industry they sell you new things buth no the ones that we really need
Your My favorite 3d printing channel
Nifty
i find putting resin prints in soapy hot water leave it soak for 5 min the support just peal away from the prints alway clean them with IPA first
So it is fairly obvious where the time savings comes in...less peel force so faster print speed settings can be used. But the material savings isn't so obvious. Was the reduced material due to needing less/smaller supports? I would think that prints that need no supports would not have any material savings.
Yes, it was in the supports! The supports in the PRM models were thinner than the standard supports. I’ll try to get some close ups for my follow up.
@@3DPrintingNerd I figured as much. I already use the smallest supports available in Lychee, I just use a lot more of them. That way the supports come off a lot easier.
Yes, that’s right. Models that require more supports will generally see greater resin savings when using the PRM. The PRM also makes it possible to use fewer supports overall, since the lower peeling force means both the quantity and diameter of supports needed for a successful print is reduced.
Ya forgot the models in the description part
I put the links to the designers and if you click those it’ll show you the models.
Why are the supports easier to remove, I hope you get into that cause it's wild to me!
The contact area between the supports and the models is smaller because it has less peel force to defend against. With a smaller contact area, the supports can be removed easier!
@@3DPrintingNerdOH, so it's another slicer change like fewer supports! Cool!
❤❤❤❤
Late to responding to this, but even the 'fast' printer was not impressive speeds, I print significantly faster then that on my Jupiter(standard nfep) with a full build plate, printing a full build volume (300mm) in under 11 hours.
Also your failure on the dragon skull had nothing to do with peel forces. That kind of failure, with the raft peeling from one side, will have been caused by a bad level on the build plate.
Nice, but the printing time seems quite long for everything?!
thats normal for resin printing, especially if you want quality and reliability you run things slower
Yup, it's always long. But you get the benefit of great quality with minimal post processing.
Sure these time savings don't seem like much, but when you have a 20+ hour print it would probably add up
@@SlinkySlonkyWafflesorry i dont agree. We have here 7 resin printers, creality, any, elegoo and formlabs. and this is way to long for such a print size. Even with different materials, these times seem extremely long to me. even at the lowest layer height. Well, he will have his reasons, but it can certainly be done faster with the same quality.
Hazbin Hotel is great if you haven't watched it yet
@@SlinkySlonkyWafflethat's old 3d printing , newer fast resins print fine, his 8h print would take 1.5h max
not to mention those resins are less viscous = more reliable
why is his print times 4-10h to begin with ?
That’s normal for most resin printers at a .05 mm layer height.
Because the build platform has to move down to just above the FEP. Then the layer image is shown on the LCD and the UV lights are turned on for a specified amount of time to cure the resin. Then the build platform lifts to peel the print away from the FEP. Then we do it again. That takes time and each layer adds up to hours. You could greatly increase the build platform movement speeds, but that would sling resin everywhere. Resin printing is ridiculously messy already. Though you could derive a system that captured and directed that resin back into the vat, but it would still be so messy on top of already messy. So build platform movements have a speed limit there. This product helps reduce time in the one place that won’t increase that messiness; the peeling away from the FEP. Which generally has to be done slowly to prevent the print from losing adhesion to the build plate.
But why does it take so long. Because the layer height is small and that means a lot of layers. Each layer having a total time to complete, and all the layer times add up.
Vertical distance/print height is the biggest determining factor in resin printing time. If you can orient your object to take up more horizontal space ( while still within the bounds of the build plates area) , and reduce its vertical distance you can greatly speed up/reduce the time it takes to finish the print.
So the window to speed up printing is very narrow, and takes place at a very crucial portion of each layer creation process. Mainly because the peeling away from the FEP is what really makes or breaks a print. Go too fast nothing but failures. Go to slow and your prints take even longer.
Same model, same material then how do you know what LESS supports to put on unless you put too much on in the first place. Also, How do you know to make it 20% faster? It is a setting that YOU make.
But is the price to much?
There are 2 proprietary resin print technolgies that have been locked behind thosands of dollars expensive machines. One uses oxygen that is probably released from the resin itself when activated by the UV light, the other one uses some kind of superslippery screen. Both print without going up and down - just straight up. When are we going to get that tech to desktop machines? This is getting ridiculous!
Who makes a 3d printer that just works every time and no bullshi** is there any?
OK... maybe I am missing something, but how exactly does this save resin? Unless you are using a different slicer profile for the two test pieces, the exact same supports will exist and the exact same amount of resin should be used. I'll go along with claim that you can run the printer faster, but unless I am missing it, I do not see any way that this would use less resin.
Huh? The video does in fact multiple times explain that yes, each print uses different slicer settings and different supports, and that it's _because_ less support material is needed with the PRM settings that there is a lower amount of resin being used (albeit a small difference in most of the examples).
You should go back and watch the video again. You seem to have missed a lot of the explanatory discussion that's there.
@@harvey66616 lol... I guess I did. I swear I watched it all, but for some reason, that just slipped right past me. That makes sense and that was what I figured, I just didn't remember hearing that explained... and judging form some of the other comments here, I'm not the only one. I appreciate it, friend.
Heygears is not an option to me. Too many restrictions on the printer to begin with. You have to use their resin, you can't customize profiles, and the air pump is a $650 add on. I could buy a second printer and crank out more than the printer by itself could with the pulse module.
The one big advantage of the PRM is you can use smaller support tips.
only 772€ 😂
You can achieve the same with just a rpi, broken xbox/ps controller, and some 3d prints for mounting.
So an ultrasonic transducer worth about….. $5
Alastor and lucifer
This feels like a script. Unless the settings are the same (sans the vibrator), these results mean nothing.
Which settings are you asking about? The light settings are the same, but the speeds for lifting are faster and the lift distance is less.
4:45 If you show the print defects on the print without the PRM, SHOW IT ON THE OTHER MODEL ASWEL, This machine sounds like a scam as much as it is, this doesn't help your case much. The prints taking 4 to 10 hours is ridiculous too. You say you have all this data on the prints yet you don't show them. And the last point, Even small settings changes can make or break a print and drastically effect print times. By not showing what the machine does, how it interfaces with the printer and what settings you used to print everything you just showed us a bunch of hot air.
I respect the work you do, but you can do better, you have to do better.
This product is so suspicious i dont really see at work love ur Videos but its insane for 650usd and no possible proof in my books its just results no testing so flawed hop this gets an update coz its really sus
Why didnt you just link to thier website.?
No personal thoughts.
Besides "so thats a win"
Did you get it for free, is it sponsored,....?
No take down.
No seetings show case.
No real comparisons.
No love footage.
Was this a show of models
Or a product placement add for 15. Min. Only missing in the end
"Get yours now only 649$"
This was a lazy, joel.😮
You and the device are more dubious than the humane ai pin
This is basically just a commercial.
Ahem. We call it a review.
Echoing other comments already here. Understand your want to share something which may seem cool but as people have already said, testing methodology is flawed and claims of the device seem outlandish/snake oil like.