The World's Oldest International Borders
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- Get a 30-day free trial with Audible at audible.com/wonderwhy or text wonderwhy to 500 500; choose 1 audiobook and 2 Audible originals per month. I highly recommend Prisoners of Geography, great for anyone interested in geopolitics.
In this video I look at some of the world's oldest international borders. While the oldest border itself is actually fairly easy, I look at some other old borders, and consider the possibility that some border may be even older than maps themselves, forged by natures long before the modern-day countries formed.
Music by Epidemic Sound: epidemicsound.com/creator
Reddit post that inspired this video: / i_tried_to_find_the_da...
In this video I look at some of the world's oldest international borders. The oldest border is actually quite straightforward (spoiler alert: it's Andorra). However, there is so much more to this question than I had originally thought when you look at in it different ways.
I looked at sections of borders, as well as significantly loosening the definition of a "border" as I went even further back in time. Back to before border were even really a thing (at least as we know them today).
This topic was inspired by a Reddit post (link in description) by /u/PisseGuri82 in which he took on the daunting task of trying to put a date on every single border in the world! I didn't think there was enough to talk about for a video about 'The Oldest Border' (since the answer seemed farily unambiguous). It was only after listening to the audiobook that I recommend at the end of the video, Prisoners of Geography, and learning all about nature borders, that realised this could be a great video.
If you are interested in having a listen, head to audible.com/wonderwhy to get a copy completely free now. I promise you'll enjoy it and learn a lot of interesting stuff, and you'd be helping out this channel in the process! Thanks to everyone for watching and subscribing. Until next time!
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To reply
I can't see the link in the description. Am I blind? Yes, I clicked "Show more"!
@@Muzer0 It's there for me, but I added it after leaving the comment so maybe CZcams takes time to update it? Anyway here's the link: www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/7ndxz9/i_tried_to_find_the_date_of_origin_for_every/
Just a small correction : the Treaty of the Pyrenees was in 1659 not 89
Greece spread through what is now Andorra. The oldest and longest borders are Canada/United States; China/Mongolia
Fun fact: Andorra is the largest country without an airport
@Xros Heart Federation huh
@Xros Heart Federation bruh
Xros Heart Federation huh
@Xros Heart Federation What about Honolulu?
@@cityraildude Honolulu is not a country
Fun fact: Andorra's capital is the highest capital city in Europe. It's the world's only co-principality
You're here, how is this possible?
I always thought Amsterdam was the highest capital city in Europe.
@@Indienheld Yeah, I agree with you, Amsterdam is surely really high.
@@CaptainBalcon in a different sence óg the word
I've been in Andorra-la-Vella, it's clear how high it is as I was driving there from France and to get to the country I had to get really high up in the mountains. Ok, I descended a bit when getting into Andorra, but it was clearly still high.
"today, one of the princes of Andorra is the president of France, who of course is democratically elected, just not by the population of Andorra"
heh
I assumed it is an honary role and he has no actual powers, like UK's queen for example.
@@aksmex2576 The UK's Queen may have to take a more active role in running the country soon.
Ha
@@UTubeTulip Like Australia's Queen is more accurate anyway, since the Queen is actually in the UK and the President of France isn't in Andorra.
@@Skasaha_ except Australia is thousands of kilometres away while Andorra is adjacent to France so by consequence they will have much more influence on them. Not that it matters anyway.
"Prisoners of Geography" _Laughs in Dutch._ Your move, nature.
g e k o l o n i s e e r d
@Mø Nälayé They reclaim many land from the ocean.
1cm change in sea level. nature: lol, f#@k you newbs. get a betta Gretta.
or create a better Li battery bank or a different battery bank or a better solar panel or an improved industrial process or cheaper renewable or do anything, or Gretta.
So basically culture is more important than geography.
Andorra: the country that technically had the feudal system until 1993.
True but,
The last country that had Feudalism abolished isnt a country. But an island in the channel. Its also the last of the Dutchy of Normandy
The Ethiopian Empire had feudalism until 1973 (I think)
Liechtenstein wouldn't let women vote until 1986
Sink Or Swim Me and the boys Moving to Liechtenstein
@@danielgreenfield6727 they should have made it forever
last time I was this early to a WonderWhy video, Bolivia still had a coastline
Haha! Last time you were this early there was still an enclave within an enclave within an enclave!
@@Moishe555 What about Nahwa? or nah, this is just an enclave within an exclave.
A useless border for naval access to the sea. However a railroad across might have been useful.
Lol geography bants
Burkette Bolivia LOST they’re coastline decades ago!
Washh bait
10:18 ''Every country is confined by its location''
Laughs in Mongolian
Kacper Lubiński *laugh in Genhghis Khan way*
Malaysia is Pro Khan*
*laughs in deep guttural throat singing way*
Laughs in Russian
"every country in the world is defined by the geography of it's location"
So, every island nation has had the oldest borders?
Depends on the island. Might be the youngest.
Australia and New Zealand are relatively new countries even though are island nations
But Iceland's are very old.
Czech-German border consists of forests...
...which grow on mountain ranges.
Šumava+Krušné hory
100th likes congrats
It's always a joy to see Wonderwhy in my notifications
Pinnacle I love his borders videos.
Australia: "Hold my beer"
Eye of the Forest Australia's borders changed in 1949 when Papua New Guinea gained independence.
Eye of the Forest ”hold my vegemite sandwich”
Very creative.
Technically Australia’s borders are rather new, as Australia (the country) didn’t exist until 1901 and therefore Australia didn’t have borders before then. Before that, it was a set of colonies ruled by the British. Before *that*, it was inhabited fully by the Indigenous Australians and Torres Strait Islanders.
Also, this video is about international borders. Borders with the ocean don’t count.
**Laughs in giant killer spiders**
"every country in the world is defined by the geography of it's location" laughs in 49th parallel
Pt Roberts
Just another thing to add to the list of fake things in America.
even the "49th parallel" border makes exceptions for the great lakes, a geographical feature, so it's still true :P
@@RaggyJha well the prairies really don't have any feature than can be used as a border.
*laughs in 38th parallel*
Little note: Olivença ir Olivenza in Spanish was a Portuguese territory up until the 17th, when the territory was ceded to Spain,if not mistaken. It was agreed to be given back to Portugal in the 18th century after the Napoleonic wars, but that has yet to be done
Damn they went from disputing all over the known whole world between the two of them to just one tiny town.
Fun Fact: the Kaiserreich alternate history mod for Hearts of Iron 4 actually notes this in the game. When the Spanish Civil War (not the same on in our timeline) breaks out, Portugal seizes the territory back and can even go further by seizing Galicia should the Carlists (the side they back) start to lose the war. However, because Spain is getting a planned rework, it is likely this is likely to be removed or altered slightly because of the territory’s insignificance.
It was ceded to Spain under the condition that if Spain ever declared war on Portugal, it would go back to Portugal. Some years later Spain declared war but they never returned it.
Maybe they just forgot. Olvidenza!
@@RuiRuichi Spain has also been disputing the Portuguese sovereignty over a small group of desert islands between Madeira and the Canaries.
Extremely important disputes indeed.
The Jordan River dates as an international border from 4000 years ago
It’s still an international border.
But but but the ottoman empire
Oh dang, true
I live in Ontario, Canada and our border with Quebec is the mainly a River. With Michigan, Ohio New York and Pensylvania we have the great lakes. I can confirm the great lakes are really great! They look like the ocean, you can not see across to USA the lakes are far too wide for that. There are narrower spots where it is just a large river like Niagara falls.
Always when I see “old” I remember that I live in the Americas and my country will not be on the list.
Has every reason to be though. It wasn't long after the Muslims were expelled from Spain in the video did colonization start. St. John, Newfoundland is 400 years old for example. And I think Quebec City is about the same age. And "New Amsterdam (New York City)" is fairly close to that as well.
The America's have more history than we give ourselves credit for. We're just too focused on the history of the last 200 years to pay attention to it.
I bet the American/Canadian border will outlast all of these.
@@farajaraf You are most optimistic about the United States.
what about our sea to shining sea
@@Odood19 doesn't include Canadia apparently
Was waiting for Hadrian’s Wall the entire time who else
was not a border after the romans left anyway. its entirely in england .
Hadrian's wall is no longer an international border since they're both constituent countries within the UK, and since they're in the same entity, not international.
Edit: Also I did research, the actual border differs quite a bit from the wall.
@Vla Lua The title of the video literally says international, I'm not sure if a border between two constituent countries within the same country really counts as international anymore.
"A stable set of lines"
Pakistan and India: ...
not now so much due to the removal of Kashmir's special regional status
It's nothing compared to what it used to be before about a hundred years ago and even before the Cold War. Some lines have been formed since, but most of them are just separating places that were already drawn, like the Czech and Slovak border, the borders of the post Soviet states except for Crimea, a bit of the Caucuses, and the area around Uzbekistan which is it's own story, and rarely do they involve as much bloodshed ad they used to. As bad as things like the deaths in Kashmir are, you can easily find wars in history that killed ten times as many in a single day as the Kashmir conflict in post British Raj India has ever killed. Military conflicts these days are largely intrastate conflicts, although many with foreign actors supporting different sides. Very few conflicts these days are between active militaries of recognized independent states with independent capacity to acquire planes and tanks.
Most border changes also involve far larger subsets of the population, often through referendums, and it's relatively uncommon to see border changes without a referendum, at least a manipulated one, being attempted. Some with legitimate choice like the Scottish referendum in 2014, others rather one sided like the Kurdish one in 2017 or the one in Catalonia in 2017 as well, and others basically fake like Crimea (although it does seem like a large chunk of the population genuinely would like to be Russian). Even many internal borders have referendums consenting to the changes or else are mutually agreed by both parties with the realistic capacity to say no. Borders are seen as the property of the people and not a specific ruler or class these days, at least in principle.
East Pakistan, err I mean Bangladesh remembers.
Every time they wage war, they lose a territory, I guess Balochistan will be next to be free from islamistan.
@Pepe The Great they literally had the nobel prize winner for physics one year
Fun fact: The India-Pakistan border is the only border in the world that can be seen from space.
Nice video, just a minor nitpick: the dispute between Portugal and Spain over Olivença does not go back to 1297 as stated, it is much more recent. Spain took the city when it attacked Portugal together with Napoleonic France in 1801. After Napoleon's defeat and the Congress of Vienna in 1815, Spain was supposed to return it but never did. So the dispute goes back to then.
I was looking at a map of the mountains of Asia, and it suddenly occurred to me that the mountain ranges that pass through Turkey, the Caucasus, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and the Himalayas up to the eastern borders of India, separate Europe, West Asia, Central Asia, South Asia, East Asia, and Southeast Asia all from each other.
Hum hum...
PORTUGAL CARALHO!!!!! 🇵🇹
Iran-Iraq/Turkey border. It has remained the SAME since 1600s.
4:03 some of these faces are very meme-worthy
Yes the guy with the slit throat is straight-up not having a good time.
They look so bored.
Just calmly splitting people’s heads with an axe
No phones here
just people living in the moment
@@BatuhanDere only 1300s kids remember
Damn, didnt expect Bohemia to make it into the vid, since were usually forgotten by most, so that was a nice suprise. Cool video eh :D
I loved this book so much! Can you make more videos inspired by it?
Thanks, man. Love your channel since 2013
So happy you made another video! Pure one of my favourite CZcamsrs! :-)
Excellent video. Thank you very much. A great amount of information, fascinating. Hugely well researched.
Really enjoy watching all your videos mate, keep up the good work 🙂
Great video. Fun fact: Although a defined territory is a requirement of statehood, having fixed and defined borders isn’t. Many UN members don’t have final agreed borders.
Another great video! You provide excellent content for Social Studies classes. Also, inspiration for a class activity. Thank you for your excellent content.
I've driven past a France/Spain border sign in the eastern Pyrenees which was covered in spray paint and replaced with Catalonia (both ways).
There are some of those with Galicia in the border between northern Portugal and Spain.
I cant believe theres a new video of WonderWhy! Great work, keep it up :)
I read the prisoners of geography a few years ago. Very interesting book, always funny to see when youtubers use it as an idea for videos as well. You're not the first, I think wendover productions used it a few years ago.
Very interesting video though, love this kinda stuff!!
Is quite interesting to watch the part about the Spanish-Portugese border when you live in the region
I've been in Alcañices several time, a nice town
half way through this video I was wondering if it would be sponsored by audible with a suggestion for Tim Marshall. And lo and behold! There it is!
He did the transition to the ad pretty smoothly though, give him credit for that.
We have been blessed with an upload!
Great video like always!!!!!
Very happy to see my country finally appearing in one of your videos! 🇵🇹🇵🇹
PS: Olivença is portuguese!
John Stevens its disputed
"Every country in the world is confined by geography"
America- "Hold my beer while I annex Hawaii"
Germany probably has the most inconsistent border in the world, and definitely just in Europe.
But don't forget Poland. Has been passed around a few times.
@@1XXXJoker yes, mostly between Germany itself and whatever country was east of it, that also changed a couple of times.
What about Russia?
Whenever I hear about German border changes of the 20th century I immediately think about all the civilians that were brutally kicked out and the ethnic and cultural cleansing including cemetery removals and destruction.
_The county of Portugal gained its independence from the Kingdom if Leon._
*Screams in Galician Kingdom*
From what I understand the kingdom of Galicia had been incorporated in the kingdom of Leon by then.
@@desanipt It's complicated. The Galician Kingdom was an entity from 409 to 1833, sometimes achieving independence and sometimes not, and its kings or rulers usually support movements against central control.
@@eledelapido No se pueden decir más mentiras en tan poco texto.
Great topic and great video
Prisoner's of Geography, good read!
It was OK. If you're into geography there isn't much that's going to shock you. Still worth a read though.
Love your channel and the book 👌
Good job very well made
One thing to keep in mind is that any border based on natural boundaries will vary over time. Forests/plains will grow/shrink. Rivers can migrate and even mountains can change slightly over long enough time spans.
For example: Today if a river, that's used as a border, changes course the border doesn't actually change with the river.
The concept of spatial awareness in cartography didn't develop until the renaissance. So natural borders older than that have moved to some lesser or greater degree.
I have yet to be disappointed by any of your videos. Thanks again!
a new video from WonderWhy is a gift from the Gods
Funfact about the czech-german border (i am german myself): Around one year ago, germany annexed land "by accindent" of the czech rep., since an old treaty states that the border goes whereever a certain river runs. The river however has changed his riverrun and with it changed the border and germany "annexed" a few squaremetres...
I read the book two months ago and I loved it
PS thanks for the great video
Died laughing because of the welcome to scotland picture. I knew I'd seen it driving through
Thank you for mentioning Czechia :)
The Norwegian-Swedish border is the longest(1630 km long), and (according to some sources) the oldest between two European countries. The first treaty concerning the border was signed in 1661, and is marked by around 800 stone cairns(2005), the first 11 set up right after the 1661 treaty. Most of the border travels through unpopulated areas, and large parts are defined by the water divide. Later, the same treaties defined the Norwegian-Finnish borders. The borders are regulated and demarcation is done nearly every 25 years since 1661.
When Wonder Why uploads, I smile
God, I love these old maps he finds!
I don't know why, but I've always found any talk about the Danube to be quite Straussful. Makes me think I'm livin' and dyin' in three-quarter time.
Great video 👍
6:22 on the right there seems to be an eagle head formed out of the country side
Thank you. Just came to see us here
4:45 You could argue that the oldest section of border in the world is in San Marino, with that tiny bit of land forming a border within the City of San Marino with Italy.
The enclave mess of Baarle-Hertog (Belgium) and Baarle-Nassau (The Netherlands) dates from the 12th century when the Duke of Brabant (Belgium is the successor state of the Duchy of Brabant) gave land to the Baron of Breda, while keeping some parcels for himself (The Netherlands is the successor state of the Barony of Breda). Except for some exclaves which exchanged for other pieces of land, the borders defined in the 12th century are the current state borders. That predates the Andorra borders. (Of course, it's not the complete border between Belgium and The Netherlands)
5:51 oh i see Czechia 😁
I think the picture at 8:07 is not in the Pyrenees but in the South of the Alps. Indeed, it looks like "les Gorges du Verdon" and his lake of Sainte-Croix with the Valensole's plateu on the background ;)
In fact, it doesn't really affects the quality of the video but it's noticeable.
If that's true then I'm impressed you spotted it. I definitely could have gotten some of my mountain pictures mixed up, I had like 20 of them!
@@WonderWhy you should not be impressed, I just leave near this place haha (and yes it is very beautiful :p)
German-Czech border: Exists unchanged for hundreds of years.
Moustache Man: *I'm gonna end this man's whole career*
Wonder why uploaded 2 videos in a month? Is this an early Christmas miracle?
Zimbabwe: I might be poor but you don’t have to forg-
South Africa: No no. Be humble.
Finally a video
Awesome video!
Love this
Good vid, thanks.
New video ! I love it
He’s alive!
The Portugal-Spain frontier isssue is very well described.
i love your channel
I have prisoners of geography on my desk right now the book is excellent
Can't wait for the English version of this video
WonderWhy, can you please make a video on why Borneo is split into three countries? Thank you very much.
When the Danube border changes, we can be sure that it'll go back to Bulgaria again.
In an interesting case; if you're looking at just the oldest borders/border sections of separate societies and not necessarily current distinct countries, consider the Murray River.
The aboriginal people of Australia are the world's oldest cizilization (having continuously existed for over 50,000 years) and the borders of many of their "countries" follow/ed the track of the Murray River, which is still used today to define the border between the modern Australian states of Victoria and New South Wales.
From my (limited) understanding, aboriginal tribes first inhabited the land around the Murray about 4,000 years ago, and while I don't know much detail or history about the development of specific borders, it's possible the Murray is therefore the oldest continuous geographical border, still in use after 4,000 years! Well worth some more research into I think.
I live in Sweden and where I sometimes walk with my dog you can litterally see the old, old border with Norway
damn, you have really upped your thumbnail and editing skills!
i saw the thumbnail and though, "hmm, isn't this a bit too eraly for a wendover productions video?"
Now I really want to read Prisoners of Geography.
Wasn't the shape of bosnia (when it wasn't under someone) pretty much constantly a triangle with a single city going to the sea
The 13th century kingdom had the exact shape
Actually, the northern border between Spain and Portugal was changed in 1864, when Spain and Portugal signed the Treaty of Lisbon, which partitioned the tiny country of Couto Misto, which lay on the border, between them
The essential thing with the border of bohemia is not the "forests" but the mountain ranges (just like in andes between Chile and Argentina). This mountain range only happens to be so low lying that it is forested (but still sparsely inhabited and difficult to cross in most parts of the mountain range). Therefore the natural condition that creates the border is not the "forest" but the mountain range. I suspect that this confusion is due to the fact that the german names of these mountain ranges have the ending "wald" which mean "forest" in german, but still it is the mountains that make the border.
The north border between Spain and Portugal has always been the same... kinda. For more than 8 centuries there was a microstate called Couto Mixto, that was finally partitioned on 1864
International Borders: *exist*
WonderWhy: Its free real estate
Try Part 5 as the countys of every states
upload more consistently!!
your channel is the definition of quality over quantity
Before watching I'm going to predict Egypt as a country with one of the oldest borders and one of the olny countries to have the same name since its begining now that's very amazing
Why does every wonder why video is competely Amazing
The present day border between Slesvig and Holstein, goes at least back to around 700 where it was the border between Denmark and proto-Germany.
Was really hoping you'd get further back in history like with the border between Sumer and Elam or what's now the border between Iraq and Iran
But that border has changed multiple times over history
The Turkey-Iran border is also one of the oldest.
Island-countries have the oldest borders ;)
@@merveilmeok2416 island countries don't have borders.
Surprised you missed Hadrian's wall as a clearly defined border, before clearly defined borders existed.
By the thumbnail I thought this video was going be about it
Scotland isn’t a country
Hadrian's Wall is not the modern border between Scotland and England. Nor was it the northern border of Roman Britannia for most of its existence
But hadrians wall is located in england and dose not mark out the border
@@jakesmith-bw1yc No it doesn't today, but you might consider people may not be talking about today......
Actually, the northern frontier between Spain and Portugal have changed a bit since the date you say. There were even a ""country"" there for 8 centuries en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Couto_Misto
The atlantic ocean has been one significant border between the old and the new world.
In the old days it was thought by Europeans, Africans and Arabians alike, that going too far west you'd fall off the world and in some places the straight of gibraltar was considered the gate to hell, as leaving the mediterranean often meant never coming back.
It's fascinating how nature, in all it's simplicity, has such a profound effect on our mental and physical boundaries.
not counting sea borders the four oldest countries with fixed borders are:
1237 england-scotland and viceversa
1245 portugal-leon/castilla/spain (partial border from leon since 1128)
1278 andorra-spain/france (partial border with france since 985)
I was thinking about this too.