The connection between Christmas and Saturnalia
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- čas přidán 13. 12. 2022
- One thing I didn't mention in the video is idea that Saturnalia did involve gift giving. At first glance this might seem to imply that the gift giving of Christmas must be borrowed from the gift giving of Saturnalia. But there are some obstacles to establishing that connection. First, gift giving is a widespread practice across many different celebratory days. It doesn't really mean that much to see the giving of gifts on a holiday of some kind. It's the error of many to presume that similarity = origin, even when they don't have additional evidence to support that it does. Second, gifts were given on the 19th of December in association with Saturnalia, not the 25th. Imagine how clumsy it would be for the early Christians to feel they need to have a festival to replace Saturnalia, only to put it on the wrong date, leaving the people with nothing to replace Saturnalia during it's actual events.
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The past month has been hard. In my third trimester with an adopted embryo (well, now fetus lol), I had bleeding the day before Thanksgiving. It resolved on its own, and baby and I are well. Then we got scammed out of all but $400. Then, one by one, our entire family fell ill to what we believe was the flu. Our oldest two are still recovering.
I can't really describe what it was like this past Sunday, when my husband had us celebrate Advent at home (despite me and the kids being sick on the couch with cartoons most of the day). We brought over the Advent wreath & candles, and named the third candle "Joy". Joy! Which is what we have in Christ. We explained to our children that things are sometimes hard, but no one can take the joy with have in our Lord, Whose birth we celebrate every year. Our little daughter blew the candles out after we sang "Joy to the World", dark circles under her eyes from the brutal illness.
God used my husband, as well as this tradition, to re-focus us on Him, despite our trials. May our Lord be praised!
God Bless and Keep you all my Dear - I pray that His Hand of healing would stay on you all this week xx
@@kaelaleedaley amen!
What an amazing ending and heart y'all have after such a brutal and tiring time!
We are a family of seven and all had COVID (except for our oldest son amazingly) around Halloween but the sad thing was it was the same time frame as my youngest birthday. We were going to celebrate his birthday and life since it was on Halloween instead of trick-or-treating . Which we decided as a family we would never participate in .
We had a fun day planed with some dear friends who were moving to another state. I was already sad they were leaving but we now we couldn't spend time with them because some of us were sick with COVID and my kids couldn't spend time with their kids and celebrate a birthday and having fellowship before they left. It was hard and I have to admit I cried for a couple days.
Covid just like the flu can be pretty brutal. The weird thing is it was really hard for my daughter and I mentally while we were ill with it. But through it all we were so blessed to overcome COVID so quickly with no side effects.
It was financially difficult during that time also because my husband was sick and couldn't work (He is our only breadwinner for the family).
The Lord came through for us financially as He always does ❤️
Praying y'all have an amazing Christmas and New Year!! Praying that precious baby in your womb grow healthy and strong!
🙏
Advent? Can you show me 'Advent' in the Bible? I appreciate you acknowledging that you are, indeed, participating in nothing more than 'tradition'....Man made tradition....
It is worthless and it is an insult to God.
I just watched the full teaching. Love watching your stuff every year to re-educate myself on these topics. Thanks Pastor Mike! God bless you greatly!
Each person needs to seek the Lord and be convinced in their own mind on if and how to celebrate this day and not dictate to others what to do. I have been a dictator In the past and I realized it wasn’t pleasing to God because legalism isn’t loving. I can exalt Jesus and mind my own business at the same time. This approach is much more gentle to others and peaceful to my soul.
Yes and Amen!!! You could say I was once torn between the 2, being a babe in Christ, wanting to serve the Law & God... but Jesus Christ has since shown me that it is Love that overcame the grave, not being a Scribe or Pharisee... For verily, the Law is good, but it was our tutor unto Christ- for we serve the Lord, who is Mercy who does not impute our trespasses against us... therefore, let us be merciful as He is merciful, overcoming all with the Love of God in Christ Jesus and the forgiveness of His heart, forever and Amen 🙏🩸✝💗🕊😭🥰
"Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
For he who serves Christ in these things is acceptable to God and approved by men.
Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another."
Romans 14:16-19
"Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." Romans 12:21
"And let us not grow weary in well-doing, for in due season we shall reap a harvest if we do not lose heart." Galatians 6:9
Yes, please allow me to send that with a resounding, "Amen!"
Call me crazy, but i thought Christians are supposed to consult the Bible and see God's position on a matter instead of relying on their own judgement.
What a load of crap.
Christmas is paganism.
The apostles were clear to keep yourself from idols. I tell you that with love and joy in my heart.
Just because Christmas may not land in the exact days that Saturnalia was celebrated in, does not disprove the fact that Christmas is an adopted Roman holiday and is not in the Bible at all.
Amen.
I completely agree
Actually, it arose from a tradition in the early church that Jesus was crucified on the same day of the year that he was concieved. If you count 9 months from Passover, you get December. Of course, this was pure speculation on the part of the early church, and is not backed up by Scripture at all (and is also highly unlikely), but that's where it came from.
@@curtthegamer934 No, the early church absolutely did not celebrate Christmas, or Easter. They also did not observe Sunday as their day of worship. The early church in scripture is completely different from the Roman Catholic Church which was established 100s of years later. The Catholic Church is responsible for replacing biblical Holy Days for these holi-days.
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Isn’t it just a Christianized version of Saturnalia/Sol Invictus?
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No. Macrobius’ *The Saturnalia* is our most complete primary source on the festivities of Saturnalia. He records that it was a multi day event of drunkenness, feasting, and exchanging quips from the traditions of the philosophers, where slaves were served by their masters. Mix in some good old fashioned Roman games and sacrifices to pagan gods, and you’ve got yourself a Saturnalia! (*The Saturnalia*, pg. 29-62, pg. 70-73)
It was also believed that “the entrance to the underworld is open” during Saturnalia, and warfare and business were postponed, because they were “ill-omened […] ‘black’ days.” (Ibid, pg. 108)
Macrobius relates that Saturnalia existed before the Romans, so it’s not even a uniquely Roman holiday. (Ibid, pg. 62)
Sol Invictus (properly, Dies Natalis Solis Invicti) was celebrated much the same as Saturnalia. Interestingly, it’s likely that Sol Invictus was created as a response to Christmas, due to the explosion of Christianity in the Roman empire. The cult only became an official religion in 274 AD. The *Chronography of 354* supports this by listing Saturnalia, Sol Invcitus, and the date of the Lord’s birth as separate events, meaning that they weren’t confused by the people celebrating them.
Now, while I know Christmas traditions vary, I’ve yet to meet the Christian who offers sacrifices to Saturn on Christmas Day, or one who worships the sun.
Just checking in to make sure Mike doesn't say Christmas is pagan. All clear, as you were people!
For more context, there is no evidence the Romans sacrificed a human during Saturnalia. Macrobius suggested it may have been an ancient custom from Greece.
The Roman Emperor who created xmas wasn't interested in replacing Saturnalia. That's why it is on the 25th. He was interested in amalgamating the established pagan culture with the new Christians to lessen political & cultural tension between the two contrasting populations. This is why Roman Catholicism contains much of these amalgamated traditions.
Christmas was celebrated in a low-key way by Christians (at different times of the year) almost right from the start.
@@checkoutnow5464 If you could provide proof of this directly from the Word of God, i will consider that. Until then, the fact is this: X-mas is a manufactured tradition of man, not God. Bless you.
Conjecture, but one that makes sense at least. Yes, I also think the Romans did establish a church were every subject could become a member (that's why it is called Catholicism, since the claim is to be universal). To me converting to Christ is however individual, not something one grows up in by default. The ecclesia is the gathering of those that converted for their benefit, for teaching, breaking with the flesh and becoming resurrected with Christ (which is what is meant by salvation). It is a journey, one that is prone to tribulation as well.
@@metapolitikgedanken612 Very interesting to now know the meaning of the word catholic. Thanks! Agreed 💯 that conversion by God's Holy Spirit is individual and requires no congregation or denomination. God can use anything, anyone or any means to take hold of a heart, but a fake holiday with a Jesus label slapped on it seems shallow. That's merely a vain opinion though. God bless! 😊🕊️🕊️
@@chickintruth In short 'Catholicism' is Greek for 'Universalism'. The RCC makes a claim that they are to be the only universal 'true church' and that all others are essentially 'sects' from them.
Now I respect that the Catholic Church is a historical institution important for National, European, even World-Wide historical developments. But I can say the same for a large number of other institutions, movements, etc. And their 'universalism' is two fold. It's on the one hand justified with the 'Great Commission' to 'preach the gospel to all nations'... On the other hand it's identical with panhumanism, which in my assessment got its origin in Babel, were people didn't want to separate and 'fill the earth', but wanted to make 'a name(Shem) for themselves.
I'm not really anti-church, although I find the term a bit misleading, since it relates to Lordship. Ecclesia means something different, more in line with 'gathering'. And a gathering needs some basic organization of course. But it's a house as opposed to a 'tower of babel' also in terms of system. That system feels necessary, because the Holy Spirit isn't there, plain and simple.
Important question is: did the first Church in Jerusalem celebrate Christmas? There is nothing about it in the book of Acts.
Bahahhahahaa!! Mike, really well done here! This is a great little clip for us to share with someone spreading misinformation about Christmas. I highly appreciate you being so concise and exact in your research, and delivering it back to us all. 🙏🏽♥️
You are the one that is misinformed. Were you dropped on your head as a child? There is absolutely no truth to this false holiday (Absolutely no truth whatsoever) . Use your Bible to prove me wrong; - try it. I beg you to study the word of God and then offer Biblical support for this awful 'holiday ' celebration.
@@MatthewChristn bahahhahahahaaaaaa!!! Yes, that’s exactly what you should do, call people names who you disagree with! Especially within the Body of Christ. 😂😂😂👌🏽🤦🏼♀️
@@jaquirox6579 ...if only I could understand you. Do you purposefully make yourself so discombobulated and incoherent in your comments and your replies? Are you drunk when you decide to start texting your minuscule morsels of thought?
@@MatthewChristn Lovely. Commenting more insults, and then deleting. 😂😂😂 Luckily you will give an account to God, for every idle word spoken, unless you repent. I welcome your repentance Sir.
Just watched this again this year to remember the details to show a friend who was making this claim. Thank you for your work. ❤️
Thanks Mike, watched the full video before and it was so informative. Alot of myths was debunked. For the first time this year I am celebrating Christmas without fear of condemnation in the back of my mind. So much freedom! Thank you.
He’s a thorough guy! Enjoy and Merry Christmas !
We don’t need to fear to reclaim for God what has always belonged to God. Even if some elements of a holiday had pagan origins, any symbol means what we agree for it to mean. Sorcerers believe symbols have power, but we know that isn’t true. Enjoy your freedom (just don’t use it to offend anyone).
Are you smoking weed? He didn't debunk anything. Mike is being disingenuous on this subject. He knows that it is a sacred cow to the self professing (so called) 'Christians' out there. Ask him about Mithra and the December 25th celebration of Mithra. He all too conveniently (and deliberately) left that one out. Of course, he will focus on Saturnalia instead of giving us a thorough examination of everything else that was going on immediately around that time and 'officially' on the 25th. Mithra and Tamuz... , but don't take my word for it. Please do your research and allow your heart to be open to the Truth. Sometimes we need to ask ourselves, "Is it going to be Truth or is it going to be (man made) Tradition?"
@@MatthewChristn So tired of the Christian Taliban.
Mike focused on Saturnalia because that’s the pagan festival that’s almost always cited. Duh!
Choose any day at random, and you’ll find some culture somewhere that had a celebration on that day. By your standard, Jesus couldn’t have been born, because every day celebrated some idol somewhere.
Every day belongs to God. Why are people so afraid to take back what’s always belonged to God? It’s because they believe in sorcery’s tenet that words and symbols have power in themselves. They don’t grasp the truth that it’s the intent of the communicators that determine meaning.
Such fear is sub-Christian fanaticism. They don’t grasp Romans 14. Their fear drives them to create division, accuse sincere brethren of being disingenuous, and spread their own fear among the gullible.
@@ricksonora6656 ...By my standard..? "Putting words in my mouth, are ya? Every day is now associated with a Pagan holiday? Dude, you are a wreck. Do you know how to follow a point?
Tracey Burroughs from South Africa 🇿🇦 watching your video. Thank you for another good video.
I just went through and watched your entire video on this subject last week. Just to be reminded because I’ve been seeing endless amounts of material online about how Christmas is pagan. Celebrate Christ’s birthday on whatever day you choose. It isn’t evil to celebrate it on Dec 25😂
Yes! Legalism can be an idol! Don't celebrate if you feel convicted! Watch HOW you celebrate as a Christian and not be about drunken love fests! Also don't be gluttons! Praise Jesus for obeying God and humbling himself as a wee babe.
Since after this day the days are getting longer, it is a good analogy to the resurrection.
Knowing its not the day Christ was born, I don't celebrate it for that reason ,but don't care who does. Observing God's feasts have brought more meaning to me and a larger understanding of the Gospel.
@@spinderellas6272 One day is as good a choice as another for us to celebrate the advent of the Saviour of the world!
It's Evil.
Be sure to continue the furtherance of the Lie. Satan smiles upon you (of course, it is a ravenous - I can't wait to destroy you and consume you kind of smile, but a smile all the same.
Please do us a favor, and try to make the case for why we should celebrate Christ's birth on Dec. 25th . Furthermore, try to make the case (Biblically) as to why we need to celebrate Christ's birth at all. I no longer participate in your long held and cherished lie. I am free of the bondage that came with that Dec. 25th deception. I am free; I am free at last.🙂🌻
Bottom line in my view is that there are parallels between most SECULAR celebrations of Christmas and Saturnalia, but not with what we do as believers.
Lovely timing Mike! ❤
Here is the biggest test....
Do away with all of the gifts, do away with all of the parties, do away with the lights, do away with the tree and all decorations. If you don't have all of that would you still celebrate Christmas? If yes then do away with those things and just have a day that honors his birth (even though we know he wasn't born December 25th). If no then you are just doing it for worldy reasons and could quite possibly be considered idolatry.
I don't "need" to have lights or give gifts but I'll still do those things anyway. As David said when Michal got upset with him for dancing, "I will celebrate before the Lord. I will make myself yet more contemptible than this, and I will be abased in your eyes."
Hmm... Even the old testament's celebrations (some of them) were meant to be cheerful (even with 🍷). I don't do those things myself, but, idolatry? Really?
This seems needlessly legalistic. I agree that if you truly are celebrating Christmas in an idolatrous way then you should dial back those traditions or avoid it altogether. You could use your rules to basically rule out ANYTHING that a Christian does in the world: are you eating food at a table where you use utensils, plates, and more ingredients than you need? Well you should take away the table and eat on the floor, you should remove the utensils and eat with your hands, you should not be using more ingredients or flavor than you actually need. If you can not take away these traditions we have added to meals, you are idolatrous and possibly gluttonous. No, we have freedom in Christ. We should be careful about creating idols as we do tend to be little idol makers, but it is ridiculous to legalistically outlaw any traditions in life when we should be redeeming them and using them to point to Christ.
I agree with you.
I believe Its good to celebrate Gods goodness and faithfulness at the end of each year, but the urge to celebrate Christmas for most Christians is just an excuss for debauchery.
Like you have said lets take away the trees, lights, gifts and glamours and see if many Christians would still want to be a part of it.
And the big questions should be
Was Jesus born on the 25th of December?
Were Christians asked anywhere in the bible to chose a day to continuously celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ?.
Is Jesus truly being honoured all over the world on that day?.
Cause i see that there is animosity against most Christians would chose not to participate in the public celeberations that happens on that day.
And i wonder how such behaviour is for the building up of the body of Christ.
@@joseg.solano1891 if the gifts, trees, lights etc are held higher than what you are saying you are doing on that day (worshiping Jesus on his birthday) then yes. I'm not saying it can't be cheerful. I'm saying that if you can't let those things go and they are of the utmost importance then yes, it becomes a problem.
As a former Norse Pagan and now Christian I only celebrate the birth of Christ and do not do Pagan traditions from Yuletide like decorating trees to even the colors used green are to worship nature red represented the raw meat that they would hang in trees as a offer to the Gods and white represented semen because of the long dark Norse Winters there's a lot of time spent inside and the mistletoe if I remember correctly is a berry they would actually eat to help with nutrient deficiencies that led to mental issues and with fertility and that is why you kiss underneath of it and also not to mention Santa Claus being an almost identical description to the god Odin when he came in man form also the reindeer's names when translated to German like Donner and Blitzen were representatives of the Norse gods and their specific Powers they had also the gift giving was part of it and if I'm not mistaking reefs were also made by the Norse pagans to worship nature also the only thing most Christians are missing to be like the pagans is a yulebach and taking pieces of wood carving Norse runes into them then burning them and taking the ashes and spreading it over their Garden as blessings from the gods to bless their food
What are your historical sources that any of the traditions you mention actually date back to the original Norse Paganism, rather than being practices from the modern reconstruction of it? There doesn't seem to be any evidence that any of these traditions go back anywhere near early enough to be plausibly borrowed from paganism. Santa made his way from Dutch St Nicholas' Day celebrations in the 19th century, and the reindeer names date back to a poem written in 1823. Christmas trees seem to date back to the late 16th century, and the most likely theory of their origin is that they evolved from the paradise tree (part of the celebration of the feast day of Adam and Eve on the 24th December).
Humans misuse and abuse many things. Christians cannot be so unlike the world they do not interact (we have pagan names of the week, wedding rings, and other things). Using our surroundings to worship God (like evergreens in winter) is a blessing; it's also highly likely to be used by pagans to worship idols because evergreens are available in winter. Heathens are going to heathe. My mother refuses to do anything with trees (her perrogative) and complains how un-Christlike Christmas is and then sits in a bitter pout doing nothing for worship or others or joy. It's sad. May you find freedom in Christ for your conscience no matter your choices involving inanimate, amoral objects. ❤
The christmas tree is a tradition from the German speaking countries. In the middle ages there were plays in the churches of Adam and Eve on December 24th and they needed a paradise tree. The only tree in winter you could use for that was a fir tree. The firs were decorated with red apples symbolising the fruit.
It became associated with Christmas in general.
Only much later other countries adopted the christmas tree and even later there were rumors that it's a pagan tradition.
Get ready, your going to get alot of hate from the cult of Mike Winger for this comment.
@@stephengray1344 "what are your historical sources". You parrot Mike Winger very well. Based on his stated experience, maybe this individual's conscience bothers him in regards to celebrating this holiday. Would that be ok with you? Or must we see what Mike Winger says first.
When I took Latin in high school we were told that Christmas was likely celebrated on the 25th because the pagans were wiped out from a week of debauchery so they weren't paying attention to what the Christians were doing
huh. that . . . actually makes sense
Love to Mike Winger.
Thanks Pastor Mike
David Pawson did an expose on Christmas. We need to be open and see both sides. Not that Mike does that. It's opened my eyes
Very thankful for the few teachers like David Pawson. He is very honest and does not bend God's word to suit man.
You are actually speaking about the wrong thing for Christmas. Christmas is not jesus's birthday it's the birthday of tammuz.
Nope, that is not supported by the historical evidence we know about Tammuz/Dumuzid at all. There is not a lot of evidence for the worship of Tammuz at a specific festival, and the evidence we have is for a summer solstice festival not winter. I recommend moving beyond the internet atheist and pagan memes about Tammuz and even the wikipedia articles and engage with what the actual historians say about the worship of Tammuz.
That’s exactly what I wrote 3 minutes ago.
That doesn't even make any sense at all.
Incorrect. No historical evidence for Tammuz being born on Dec 25th. For the record Nimrod was not born on the 25th of December either
@@joshuamelton9148 I'm glad you were around back then to clear this up for us.
The description of saturnalia and the way it was celebrated sounds more like an episode of 'The Purge' 😲
You forgot about Tammuz, son of Semiramis. That’s the real reference on Dec 25. But whatever.
It's really not. Move beyond the atheist and pagan memes about Tammuz and others on Dec 25th and see what actual historians and archaeologists say on the subject: there is not much evidence for a specific festival worshipping Tammuz/Dimuzi and the evidence we do have is for a summer solstice celebration not winter...
@@skyorrichegg ok so, you question the validity of the source of information relating Tammuz and Dec 25? There are many sources and to bring atheists or such to form a ad hominem argument is a bit superficial. Anyway, I think nobody should criticize people who decide to object this celebration. There is a lot of theological arguments to support said rejection. The only argument this pastor brings to support his argument is the Solstice celebration date, nothing else.... not a great argument in my book.
@@movimientodef.e.3466 haha, yes I question the validity of Tammuz's birthday being the 25th. Please present evidence or a source that it is true. This theory did not show up until the 1800s and is from Alexander Hislop, a Scottish minister with no historical or archaeological training who made some really bad translations in his work and that has been roundly critisized and debunked ever since then. People just repeat it constantly online, but yeah there is no real evidence that it is true, but if you can present some I would LOVE to see it!
Nobody is arguing that people have to celebrate Christmas: if someone has concerns they can choose not to. What people argue against is people saying that Christians should definitely not be celebrating Christmas, that sort of legalistic nonsense. We also argue against the really poor historical scholarship (I should not even be saying scholarship as this is anything but) that these people use to argue that we should not be celebrating Christmas. It is our opponent who are being legalistic not us, I am completely fine if people choose not to celebrate Christmas, but I will argue against people implying I should not celebrate it because of the wrong idea that it has pagan origins.
Merry Christmas
Do I dare view the comments on this lol.
For an ancient Roman, December 25th was the time to celebrate Sol Invictus, the Unconquered Sun. The Sun God was venerated under different names all over the enormous territory of the Roman Empire and became the most important god during the 3rd century AD. The emperor Aurelianus built a big temple for the Sun God in Rome and inaugurated it right on December 25th, 274 AD.
Yule is what we celebrate in Europe. All is pegan:)
We even call Xmas for Jul here :)
Solstice is the english word we say christmas is copied from.
I dont know why you said Saturnalia
Hope you read it Mike:)
I believe that he specifically addresses Saturnalia because the idea that Christmas is just Saturnalia in disguise is fairly common, at least in the United States. He might address other issues (such as the winter solstice or Jul) in the full teaching video. I am not sure though; I have not watched it yet.
As Jacques said, the argument that Christmas came from Saturnalia is common here. Probably much more common than the argument that Christmas came from the solstice. There isn't even evidence of the solstice being used as a time for festivals until long after Christmas was established. (Christmas dates back to the early 300s at least, and some evidence strongly points to the 200s).
Yule/Jul wasn't celebrated on December 25th until King Hakon the Good of Norway moved the date to match Christmas. This was in the 900s. The exact date of when Jul was celebrated before that is not known, but there are records from the time indicating that it was in January.
@@shockthetoast Consider my toast shocked! That’s fascinating.
I’ve been thinking about learning more about Yule, but I think anybody here, the US, just think it’s a synonym for the Christmas season, with roots so forgotten as to be irrelevant. Even the Yule log is a lost tradition. The Christmas-phones focus of the tree and the 25th.
Yule wasn’t celebrated until over 300 years after the death of Christ. Christians had already been celebrating Christmas by the 2nd Century.
Saturnalia was connected to the Winter Solstice (around Dec 17th).
The 25th was selected for Christmas because of the traditional belief that a prophet died on the day of his conception. In the case of Jesus, he was likely executed in early Spring i.e March. Count forward 9 months.
There is no evidence that Christmas is pagan.
I think the movie Nightmare Before Christmas just gained a new meaning. Reversal of roles check, breaking of rules check....
Isn't every day of our week named after a pagan god?😀
Only if the sun and moon count as pagan gods.
If so, can I stop participating in Mondays, then? 🤣🤣
maybe in English and other languages with Greek origins. I'm sure Hebrew week names aren't
@@sitcomchristian6886 ^^THIS
Dead right. as a born again spirit filled sanctified true calvinistic remnant about to be raptured believer I don't honour celestial bodies and pagan gods so I never go out to work on any of these godless days, I just stay in bed and read my KJV Bible. Be wise people!
I think Christopher Johnson covers this the best..
The date may not be from Saturnalia or whatever else, but I find it interesting that Christmas starts on the 25th and goes into the next month and also Hanukah starts on the 25th of the month (Kislev) and goes into the next month. Starting a holiday near the end of a month and going into the next month, it seems, was a Roman practice. Also - there are no Jewish holidays that start past the 15th of the month, Check Leviticus 23. Even Purim, which came later, starts around the middle of the month.
Also both of these holidays celebrate light and are in the middle of winter. However -
Jesus was not born in the winter - the shepherds would not have been out in the fields in the winter at night looking up at the stars which would most likely have been clouds anyway.
Hanukah was originally the Feast of Dedication mentioned in John. The lights came many years later, they are not mentioned in the books of Maccabees.
In another video Mike mentions about the Christmas trees being of German origin and I'm thinking - oh, no wonder the song "oh Christmas Tree" is originally in German.
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Doesn’t the December 25th date come from pagan holidays?
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December 25th is well established by historical data. Our earliest references to the date of Christ’s birth unanimously agree to the date of December 25th.
Our earliest reference to the birth date of the Lord is Hippolytus’ *Commentary on Daniel*, written around the early 3rd century:
> For the first advent of our Lord in the flesh, when he was born in Bethlehem, eight days before the kalends of January [December 25th], the 4th day of the week [Wednesday], while Augustus was in his forty-second year, [2 or 3BC] but from Adam five thousand and five hundred years. He suffered in the thirty third year, 8 days before the kalends of April [March 25th], the Day of Preparation, the fifteenth year of Tiberius Caesar [29 or 30 AD], while Rufus and Roubellion and Gaius Caesar, for the 4th time, and Gaius Cestius Saturninus were Consuls.
This date is corroborated by church historian Sulpicius Severus in his *Sacred Histories,* 2.27:
> Then Herod, a foreigner, the son of Antipater of Askelon, asked and received the sovereignty of Judaea from the senate and people of Rome. [...] Under this Herod, in the thirty-third year of his reign, Christ was born on the twenty-fifth of December in the consulship of Sabinus and Rufinus.
The *Chronograph of 354* also lists the Lord’s date of birth as December 25th, and separately from Sol Invictus and Saturnalia, the supposed forerunners of Christmas. So, not only does the date come from early Christian historians, but it was known at the time those festivals were celebrated, and considered separate from them. It was not seen as similar by early pagans and Christians, who did not confuse the celebrations.
"Hanukah starts on the 25th of the month (Kislev) and goes into the next month" and "there are no Jewish holidays that start past the 15th of the month, Check Leviticus 23". I'm confused. Do you not consider Hanukah a Jewish holiday? Did Jesus celebrate a holiday that was derived from Roman Practices?
"Jesus was not born in the winter - the shepherds would not have been out in the fields in the winter at night looking up at the stars which would most likely have been clouds anyway." I also get confused on why people claim this. Israel has a Mediterranean climate and it has highs of like 64-70 degrees Fahrenheit during the Christmas time. It is was literally 66 degrees as a high there just today. Why would they have needed to shelter during this? Is this too cold?
From letter to letter - Exactly.
Not to even mention Mary.
2. Luke 2:1-4 ... " And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judæa, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:)" - which was in these days 145km trip.
3. Mary - at that time 8months pregnant, riding for days on a donkey, 145km, in the middle of December? Really?
Another thing about the shepherds ... Whenever you see a picture, postcard of the birth of the Jesus, there are little lambs in it.
- Sheep are giving birth ONLY (!!!) ONCE A YEAR - IN THE SPRING TIME!!!
So, Jesus is most likely born IN THE SPRING!!
Oh, Christmas Tree = Tannen Baum.
To the best of my knowledge and research, it is not true that the Saturnalia involved human sacrifice. The Romans probably practised it in their earliest periods, but it was uncommon by the Mid-Republic and one of the last recorded instances is the sacrifice of several slaves as a desperate attempt to appease the gods in the aftermath of Cannae between Rome and Carthage in 216 BC (Livy 22.57). Livy specifically points out that these sacrifices were "wholly alien to the Roman spirit". It was formally outlawed around 100 BC but that was more or less a formality because human sacrifice almost never happened.
False teachers always mock the truth.
Pagans were cutting trees out of the forest for decoration during Jeremiah's time. This was long before Christ.
Jeremiah 10:1-25:
The Sovereignty of God
1Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
2Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
6Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.
7Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee.
8But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities.
9Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men.
10But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.
11Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.
12He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.
13When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.
14Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them.
15They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish.
16The portion of Jacob is not like them: for he is the former of all things; and Israel is the rod of his inheritance: The LORD of hosts is his name.
The Coming Destruction
17Gather up thy wares out of the land, O inhabitant of the fortress.
18For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will sling out the inhabitants of the land at this once, and will distress them, that they may find it so.
19Woe is me for my hurt! my wound is grievous: but I said, Truly this is a grief, and I must bear it.
20My tabernacle is spoiled, and all my cords are broken: my children are gone forth of me, and they are not: there is none to stretch forth my tent any more, and to set up my curtains.
21For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.
22Behold, the noise of the bruit is come, and a great commotion out of the north country, to make the cities of Judah desolate, and a den of dragons.
Jeremiah's Prayer
23O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
24O LORD, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing.
25Pour out thy fury upon the heathen that know thee not, and upon the families that call not on thy name: for they have eaten up Jacob, and devoured him, and consumed him, and have made his habitation desolate.
Also, why is God saying using more specific terminology such as "the palm tree", and not "a palm tree" that would apply to a different type of upright object?
Christians aren’t carving trees into statues, covering them with gold, placing food and drink before them, and praying to them for favor or otherwise worshipping Christmas trees.
Where Did the Christmas Tree Come From??
The story of the Christmas tree is part of the story of the life of St. Boniface, whose name was originally Winfrid. St. Boniface was born about the year 680 in Devonshire, England. At the age of five, he wanted to become a monk, and entered the monastery school near Exeter two years later. When he was fourteen, he entered the abbey of Nursling, in the Diocese of Winchester. Very studious himself, St. Boniface was the pupil of the learned abbot, Winbert. Later Boniface became the director of the school.
At this time, much of northern and central Europe still had not been evangelized. St. Boniface decided he wanted to be a missionary to these people. After one brief attempt, he sought the official approval of Pope St. Gregory II. The Pope charged him with preaching the gospel to the German people. (Also at this time, St. Boniface changed his name from Winfrid to Boniface.) St. Boniface travelled to Germany through the Alps into Bavaria and then into Hesse and Thuringia. In 722, the Pope consecrated St. Boniface as a bishop with jurisdiction over all of Germany. He knew that his greatest challenge was to eradicate pagan superstitions which hindered the acceptance of the gospel and the conversion of the people. Known as "the Apostle to Germany," he would continue to preach the gospel until he was martyred in 754. At this point we can begin our story about the Christmas tree.
With his band of faithful followers, St. Boniface was traveling through the woods along an old Roman road one Christmas Eve. Snow covered the ground, muffling their footsteps. Their breath could be seen in the crisp, cold air. Although several suggested that they camp for the night, St. Boniface encouraged them to push forward, saying, "Courage, brothers, and forward yet a little. God's moon will light us presently, and the path is plain. Well know I that you are weary; and my own heart wearies also for the home in England, where those I love so dearly are keeping feast this Christmas Eve. Oh, that I might escape from this wild, storm-tossed sea of Germany into the peaceful haven of my fatherland! But we have work to do before we feast tonight. For this is the Yule-tide, and the heathen people of the forest have gathered at the Oak of Geismar to worship their god, Thor; and strange things will be seen there, and deeds which make the soul black. But we are sent to lighten their darkness; and we will teach our kinsmen to keep a Christmas with us such as the woodland has never known. Forward, then, in God's name!"
They pushed ahead, reinvigorated by St. Boniface's plea. After a while, the road opened to a clearing. They could see houses, but dark and seemingly vacant. No human was in sight. Only the noise of hounds and horses broke the quiet. Continuing on, they came to a glade in the forest, and there appeared the sacred Thunder Oak of Geismar. "Here," St. Boniface proclaimed as he held is bishop's crozier high with its cross on top, "here is the Thunder-oak; and here the cross of Christ shall break the hammer of the false god Thor."
In front of the tree was a huge bonfire. Sparks danced in the air. The townspeople surrounded the fire facing the sacred oak. St. Boniface interrupted their meeting, "Hail, sons of the forest! A stranger claims the warmth of your fire in the winter night." As St. Boniface and his companions approached the fire, the eyes of the townspeople were on these strangers. St. Boniface continued, "Your kinsman am I, of the German brotherhood and from Wessex, beyond the sea, have I come to bring you a greeting from that land, and a message from the All-Father, whose servant I am."
Hunrad, the old priest of Thor, welcomed St. Boniface and his companions. Hunrad then said to them, "Stand still, common man, and behold what the gods have called us hither to do! This night is the death-night of the sun-god, Baldur the Beautiful, beloved of gods and men. This night is the hour of darkness and the power of winter, of sacrifice and mighty fear. This night the great Thor, the god of thunder and war, to whom this oak is sacred, is grieved for the death of Baldur, and angry with this people because they have forsaken his worship.
Long is it since an offering has been laid upon his altar, long since the roots of his holy tree have been fed with blood. Therefore its leaves have withered before the time, and its boughs are heavy with death. Therefore, the Slavs and the Saxons have beaten us in battle. Therefore, the harvests have failed, and the wolf-hordes have ravaged the folds, and the strength has departed from the bow, and the wood of the spear has broken, and the wild boar has slain the huntsman. Therefore, the plague has fallen on your dwellings, and the dead are more than the living in all your villages. Answer me, you people, are not these things true?" The people sounded their approval and then began a chant of praise to Thor.
When the last sounds faded, Hunrad pronounced, "None of these things will please the god. More costly is the offering that shall cleanse your sin, more precious the crimson dew that shall send new life into this holy tree of blood. Thor claims your dearest and your noblest gift."
With that, Hunrad approached the children, group together around the fire. He selected the fairest boy, Asulf, the son of Duke Alvold and his wife, Thekla, and declared that he would be sacrificed to travel to Valhalla and bear the people's message to Thor. Asulf's parents were deeply shaken. Yet, no one spoke.
Hunrad led the boy to a large stone altar between the oak and the fire. He blindfolded the child, and had him kneel down placing his head on the stone altar. The people moved closer, and St. Boniface positioned himself near the priest. Hunrad then lifted his sacred black-stone hammer of the god Thor high into the air, ready to have it crush little Asulf's skull. As the hammer fell, St. Boniface thrust his crozier against the hammer, and it fell from Hunrad's hand, splitting in two against the stone altar. Sounds of awe and joy filled the air. Thekla ran to her child spared of this bloody sacrifice and embraced him tightly.
St. Boniface, his face radiant then spoke to the people, "Hearken, sons of the forest! No blood shall flow this night save that which pity has drawn from a mother's breast. For this is the birth-night of the white Christ, the son of the All-Father, the Savior of mankind. Fairer is He than Baldur the Beautiful, greater than Odin the Wise, kinder than Freya the Good. Since He has come sacrifice is ended. The dark, Thor, on whom you have vainly called, is dead. Deep in the shades of Niffelheim he is lost forever. And now on this Christ-night you shall begin to live. This blood-tree shall darken your land no more. In the name of the Lord, I will destroy it." St. Boniface then took his broad ax and began striking the tree. A mighty wind suddenly arose and the tree fell, wrenching its roots from the earth, and it split into four pieces.
Behind the mighty oak stood a young fir tree, pointing like a cathedral spire toward heaven. St. Boniface again spoke to the people, "This little tree, a young child of the forest, shall be your holy tree tonight. It is the wood of peace, for your houses are built of the fir. It is the sign of an endless life, for its leaves are ever green. See how it points upward to heaven. Let this be called the tree of the Christ-child; gather about it, not in the wild wood, but in your own homes; there it will shelter no deeds of blood, but loving gifts and rites of kindness."
So they took the fir tree and carried it to the village. Duke Alvold set the tree in the middle of his great hall. They placed candles on its branches, and it seemed filled with stars. Then St. Boniface, with Hunrad sitting at his feet, told the story of Bethlehem, the Baby Jesus in the manger, the shepherds, and the angels. All listened intently. Little Asulf, sitting on his mother's lap, said, "Mother, listen now, for I hear those angels singing again behind the tree." Some say it is true; some say it was St. Boniface's companions singing, "All glory be to God on high, and to the earth be peace; goodwill, henceforth, from heaven to men begin and never cease."
As we gather around our Christmas trees this year, may we give thanks for the gift of our faith, hold the story of our Savior's birth in our hearts and listen for the song of the angels.👏👏
Pagans were cutting trees out of the forest for decoration during Jeremiah's time. This was long before Christ.
Jeremiah 10:1-25:
The Sovereignty of God
1Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
2Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
6Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.
7Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee.
8But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities.
9Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men.
10But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.
11Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.
12He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.
13When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.
14Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them.
15They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish.
16The portion of Jacob is not like them: for he is the former of all things; and Israel is the rod of his inheritance: The LORD of hosts is his name.
The Coming Destruction
17Gather up thy wares out of the land, O inhabitant of the fortress.
18For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will sling out the inhabitants of the land at this once, and will distress them, that they may find it so.
19Woe is me for my hurt! my wound is grievous: but I said, Truly this is a grief, and I must bear it.
20My tabernacle is spoiled, and all my cords are broken: my children are gone forth of me, and they are not: there is none to stretch forth my tent any more, and to set up my curtains.
21For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.
22Behold, the noise of the bruit is come, and a great commotion out of the north country, to make the cities of Judah desolate, and a den of dragons.
Jeremiah's Prayer
23O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
24O LORD, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing.
25Pour out thy fury upon the heathen that know thee not, and upon the families that call not on thy name: for they have eaten up Jacob, and devoured him, and consumed him, and have made his habitation desolate.
@@ajlouviere202 to bad they weren't using tress they were cutting them down for thier wood which then carved into idols boy those Jews have a problem then with celebrating Sukot
@@ajlouviere202
The date of December 25th for the birth of Jesus is a straightforward deduction from Scripture, analyzed in conjunction with historical knowledge about those who worked in the temple. In other words, it was derived from considerations having nothing whatsoever to do with Roman ‘pagan’ festivals or any other December-related cultural or non-Christian religious activities.
That said, scholars know today that his birth was not likely in what is now December. According to the Liber Pontificalis, Pope St. Telesphorus (125-136) instituted the tradition of celebrating midnight Mass. St. Theophilus (AD 115-181), bishop of Caesarea, stated, “We ought to celebrate the birthday of Our Lord on what day soever the 25th of December shall happen.” [Magdeburgenses, de orign Festorum Chirstianorum].
In short, Christmas was already being celebrated by Christians by the early 100’s AD. With respect to Christmas deriving from Mithras or Saturnalia - Saturnalia was the Roman festival of Saturn celebrated on 17 December. Celebrations continued after Saturnalia for several days, finishing sometime between 19 and 23 December (depending on which century we’re talking about). It was likely originally farming festival (given that it honoured Saturn); historical evidence is unclear.
In any event, there is no link to Christmas, and the date is not at all the same. The fact that Saturnalia might have had some influence on Christmas isn’t evidence that it did. The modern custom of gift-giving at Christmas only goes back to the 16th century. That is when (Martin) Luther introduced the Christkind in an attempt to discourage Catholic veneration of St. Nicholas, who was associated with gift-giving on his feast day of 6 December.
There is zero evidence to suggest continuity in gift giving all the way back to when Saturnalia was still being celebrated. Another candidate for a pagan Roman festival that Christmas supposedly appropriated, or incorporated, or supplanted is Sol Invictus, which at least fell on December 25th. But, the earliest date provided by historical evidence for the Roman celebration is 274 AD, when it was instituted by the Roman emperor Aurelian.
The December 25th date for this festival, however, did not begin in 274. It came eighty years later! In short, Christmas was celebrated on 25 Dec. prior to any pagan celebration on the same date. The beginning of the observance of Sol Invictus on December 25th, started anywhere from 70-220 years after Christians were celebrating Christmas on that date.
So the myth of Christmas coming from Sol Invictus can be safely laid to rest. Indeed, some historians suggest that Sol Invictus was instituted on 25 December by the Romans to counter the Christian celebration of Christmas; not the other way around.
The idea that Christmas is ‘pagan’ actually comes from die-hard Protestant fundamentalists in the seventeenth, eighteenth, and nineteenth centuries. In those centuries, many Protestants regarded holidays like Christmas and Easter as “Popery” and therefore sought to discredit them by linking them with ancient paganism.
The idea that Christmas might be pagan was advanced as early as 1648 in the work Certain Queries Touching the Rise and Observation of Christmas, written by the Puritan Joseph Heming. Later fundamentalist writers took the idea and ran with it. One particularly influential writer was Alexander Hislop (1807-1865), a minister for the Free Church of Scotland who published a pamphlet in 1853 titled The Two Babylons. In this pamphlet, Hislop claimed that Roman Catholicism is really nothing more than re-branded Babylonian paganism and that all the holidays associated with Catholicism are actually ancient Babylonian religious festivals in honor of the heathen gods. Hislop was a zealot, vehemently anti-Catholic, and a crank whose ideas had almost no factual basis whatsoever, but his work became extremely influential among Protestant fundamentalists.
It is from Hislop that the concept of Christmas as the “birthday of Tammuz” derives. [Some of the above comes from an article published 8.DEC.21 by D. Armstrong] The above said, there is no denying that some traditions and customs surrounding Christmas are derived from pre-Christian beliefs and practices; the tree (a Germanic tradition), the “plant” traditions - holly, ivy, mistletoe (from the Celts). Indeed, many of our present-day customs and traditions, from the days of the week to the candles you blow out on your birthday cake, have pre-Christian antecedents; but no one really seems to complain about those.
In fact, I’d be willing to bet that very few people are even remotely aware of them. Quite frankly, whether one wishes to acknowledge it or not, the “pagan-ness” has been effectively ‘bread out’ of these Christmas traditions for well over 1,000 years now. They have, for all intents and purposes, become completely Christianized. Like other pre-Christian customs and traditions that have become part of our culture, it’s time for some to get over it.😜😜
@@biblealone9201 just sharing what God spoke through the prophet Jeremiah regarding the pagan practices of the heathens, and not to partake in them.
@@biblealone9201 ancient pagans were using hammers and chisels to carve idols out of stone, but even if they were creating idols out of wood why would they use an axe and not a hammer and chisel that carves wood?
Is there a full video on this?
Sorry Mike wrong reasoning there guy.
The better Question is 'WHY did those ones decide to put that fale birthday anywhere near that widely known and practiced non-holy day/time??"
Everyone ought to know by now (as they surely did back then) that Jesus' actual birth day would have been the equivalent of end of September-beginning of October'
Why did they NOT CHOOSE that range of time to have this unscriptural practice of celebrating Jesus' birth?
You put it near the pagan holiday to give Christians an alternative. Another reason for having a holiday in the middle of the winter is as a morale boost. You celebrate the harvest during the fall, but without a winter holiday, it can be hard for people to get through the long winter. A holiday that encourages helping those in need could be a lifesaver before modern times when you can just go to the store in the dead of winter to buy produce.
And I don't know how accurate the time of year really could be since they don't even know exactly which year he was born, let alone which season. I grew up being told that it was most likely that he was born in the spring time because that's when the census supposedly took place.... so saying that "Everyone ought to know by now" or that they "surely did back then" is rather presumptuous. Christmas wasn't even celebrated till almost 350 years after his birth. To say that it is unscriptural though isn't entirely true either because the Bible speaks of how Christ's birth was celebrated. Angels sang, gifts were given, the news was spread. If the angels celebrated it, it seems like it gives us permission to celebrate it as well. The Bible certainly doesn't preach against celebrating and since Christ birth was celebrated in the Bible, I think that's a pretty clear sign that it's something that's ok for us to do now.
Celebrate both? It isn't wrong to have special seasons of worship. Coincidence is a weak argument for idol worship by having similar/same dates. Having this worship season at one of the biologically most difficult times of year is also a blessing to humanity.
Obedience is not legalism
Legalism is boasting in our righteousness to His Commandments over others... rather than using our wisdom for good and edifying those who are weak in the faith.
Also, if we simply obey His Appointed Times...we do not need to try to justify our rebellion by observing man made traditions...and comparing how they are not as evil as they use to be
then the true meaning of...
Let no one judge you in food or drink or of Appointed Times , New Moons, and Sabbaths
...becomes clear, because it does not matter who judges you for keeping His Shabbats and Moedim because He is the only True judge....and
if Elohim is for you who can be against you
May Yahway Bless and Protect you all 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Happy Chanukah!
Merry Christmas to everyone ✞✝︎†
Is there a longer version of this?
Yes! Just search mike winger christmas
Yes, there's a link in the description to the full video. :)
There are two videos; Mythmas, and, Is Christmas Pagan? which Mike Winger has made.
Saturnalia also included private gift giving.
In case anyone finds this helpful or is interested in praying for our Christian ministries/leaders/shepherds/evangelists/apologists like Mike Winger:
16 prayer points you can pray for them:
1
You can pray that they will always have a good walk with God (that they will not forget their first love), that God will bless their daily private Bible reading and prayer life, and that they will have good sound doctrine.
2
You can pray that they will be full of the Holy Spirit and that God will bless their ministries so that many more people will come to faith in Jesus for God’s glory, and that they will feed God’s sheep and disciple them properly.
3
You can pray that they will be humble, that they will remember how many Christian leaders in the past have fallen, and that they will have a very healthy fear of the Lord.
4
You can pray that God will protect them and the ministry God has given them from:
Pride
Love of fame
Love of money
Desire for the approval of people rather than the approval of God
Being worried about offending people
Compromising God’s Word
Sexual temptation
Demonic attacks
Persecution (from outside the Church and inside the Church)
5
You can pray for their PHYSICAL HEALTH and that God will heal all their health problems.
6
You can pray for their MENTAL HEALTH. Pastors and Christian workers often have stress and battle discouragement and depression. Please God touch them and heal them of all mental and emotional problems and distress.
They can also sometimes be hurt by the people they serve or by other Christian leaders - so we can pray that this won’t happen but that if it does that God will heal these wounds and strengthen His servants to forgive each other and that God will restore unity for His Glory.
7
You can pray that God will bless and protect their families.
Satan often attacks Christian workers by attacking their loved ones.
So you can pray that their family members will all have a good walk with God, have good sound doctrine, that God will protect them all from demonic attacks, that God will also bless and protect their physical and mental health, heal them of all infirmities, and that God will bless all their family relationships so that there is peace and love in their families.
You can pray that God especially blesses and protects all areas and parts of their marriages, so that they will not be tempted to look elsewhere.
Also please God bless their marriages especially so that they can be a model and example for other Christians.
8
You can pray that God will abundantly bless and protect the finances of the ministries and also the personal finances of God’s servants (especially finances needed for health or medical expenses).
You can pray that they always have abundant finances so that they can always do every good work God wants them to do.
9
You can pray that God blesses and protects the relationships between Christian co-workers in ministries - so that no jealousy or strife or bitterness takes root. That they will all have Christian unity and that their focus will be on God getting all the glory and rejoice in any and all work for God.
10
You can pray that God prevents any technical or logistical or legal or any type of problems for their ministry, but if they have any such issues/problems that God will help them resolve/fix and totally solve and remove these problems.
11
If it’s an internet (e.g. CZcams) ministry you can pray that God will help the videos spread on those platforms and get many views and that God will use the videos to bring many people to repentance and faith in Jesus.
12
You can pray that God will help Christian leaders be good shepherds of Jesus’ sheep and continue to feed Jesus’ sheep, and that they will not only convert people, but also disciple new converts so that they can grow and develop and mature in a healthy and supported way.
13
You can pray that God will give them the heart of a servant.
14
You can pray that God gives them wisdom and helps them and powerfully guides them when making all decisions and plans.
15
You can pray that if they make mistakes or sin that God will grant them humility and repentance and restore them.
16
You can pray that more Christians will pray consistently for Christian leaders/pastors/shepherds/workers/ministries.
***********************
You could make a list of pastors/ministries you want to support and pray for them regularly.
Jesus said:
“ when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.”
Matthew 6:6
13 more BIBLICAL prayer points for praying for the LOST:
Jesus and Paul actually told us specifically what to pray for on several occasions:
1
“pray for us that the word of the Lord will spread rapidly and be glorified”
2 Thessalonians 3:1
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2
Jesus said we should pray for more labourers.
"Then Jesus said to his disciples, “The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few; therefore PRAY earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest.”"
Matthew 9:37-38
Jesus said:
“The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few. Therefore PRAT earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest."
Luke 10:2
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3
We can pray for more opportunities to share the Gospel, and for God to open more doors for effective work:
"pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains."
Colossians 4:3
“because a great door for effective work has opened to me”
1 Corinthians 16:9
-------------------------
4
We can pray that God will give us all the right words to say.
"Pray also for me, that whenever I speak, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel,"
Ephesians 6:19
-------
5
We can pray that God will give all Christians the boldness to share the gospel.
"Lord... grant to your servants to continue to speak your word with all boldness... And when they had prayed... they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness."
Acts 4:29-31
------------------------
6
We can pray that Christians will speak boldly RELYING ON THE LORD:
“they spent a long time there speaking boldly with reliance upon the Lord”
Acts 14:3
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7
We can pray for God to draw more people to Jesus and to grant more people to come to Jesus.
Jesus said:
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them"
John 6:44
Jesus said:
“No one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
John 6:65
--------------------------
8
We can pray that God will REVEAL the reality and truth about Jesus to more people.
"Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not REVEALED to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in Heaven."
Matthew 16:16-17
"At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and REVEALED them to little children."
Matthew 11:25
---------------------------
9
We can pray that God will teach more people.
Jesus said:
"It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’
Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him COMES TO ME."
John 6:45
--------------------------
10
We can pray that God will open more hearts to attend to His message.
"The Lord opened her heart to attend to the things being spoken by Paul."
Acts 16:14
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11
We can pray that God will open more eyes to see and open ears to hear so that they would turn to God and God would heal them.
Jesus said:
"I send thee (Paul), TO OPEN THEIR EYES, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me."
Acts 26:17-18
“while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand…..
OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT SEE WITH THEIR EYES,
HEAR WITH THEIR EARS,
UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART, AND RETURN,
AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.’
But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear.”
Matthew 13:13…16
“The hearing ear and the seeing eye, The Lord has made both of them.”
Proverbs 20:12
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12
We can pray that God in his mercy and generosity will bring more prisoners out of spiritual dungeon into the freedom and light of Jesus Christ.
“proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free.”
Luke 4:18
“a light to the nations,
To open blind eyes,
To bring out prisoners from the dungeon
And those who dwell in darkness from the prison.”
Isaiah 42:7
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13
We can pray that God will grant more people repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth:
“in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth”
2 Timothy 2:25
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14
We can pray that we will have more of God's love in our hearts for the lost so that we will not be afraid to share the Gospel, but that God's love in us will override any fears and make it automatic that we share the gospel in love.
If there was a frozen lake, you wouldn't want to go swimming in it.
But if a small child fell in, you would automatically dive in to save them.
We can pray for love that will cause us to act.
-------------------------
"Devote yourselves to prayer, being watchful and thankful."
Colossians 4:2
Jesus told us multiple times throughout Scripture to watch and pray always.
December 25th was chosen because it was the birth date of Nimrod, The Father of Babylon.
The Big Bang Theory loved to degrade it ‘humorously’ by declaring through their primary mouthpiece Sheldon that Christmas was derived from the supposed pagan practice.
True, but if someone gets their religious historical knowledge from a sitcom, I would have to worry about them.
I would have loved to see all those pagans practising Christmas carols and telling the story of Christ's birth by candlelight... yup, definitely pagan.
@@wtk6069 you'd be surprised how many people you need to worry about...
@@isaacholzwarth - true dat
So what are the qualities of a holiday that you would recommend not celebrating even if it claimed to be honoring Jesus?
If it doesn't match up to biblical standards, then don't celebrate it. You can celebrate the anniversary of the first time you baked a cake by baking a cake every year, you can celebrate the first snowfall by building a snowman, you can celebrate your upcoming wedding with all your closest friends... but if you're hiring a stripper for your bachelor party, it's not a celebration that you should be having, even if marriage itself is God honoring.
Are there any specific holidays that come to mind? Are you thinking of St.Patrick's day (a day that celebrates St.Patrick bringing Christianity to Ireland but has now turned into a celebration of drinking green beer)?
Anything actually sinful according to Biblical standards.
Just don't do anything that you _also_ shouldn't be doing the _other_ 364 days of the year.
Didn't some of the writings of Hippolytus show that December 25th was celebrated in the 200s rather than the usual links with pagan festivals from the 300s, showing that the "repurposing pagan ideas" theory isn't valid?
I’m not sure that the quote from Hippolytus is genuine so I don’t use it. Perhaps it is and there’s more I don’t know about the main quote or additional writings.
Kinda funny that he doesn’t use all the other sources. Christmas is the Christian winter solstice celebration. They can choose a different day to celebrate the birth of Christ and get rid of all the other pagan things associated with the Christmas celebration. They haven’t.
Actually most of what we know about the celebration of Saturnalia is from around the 1st centuries BC and AD. During the course of the 3rd century AD it changed a lot and became much less important due more multicultural influences across the Roman Empire. By the time we reach the 320s/330s when Christmas celebrations got official backing, Saturnalia was no more influential than any other pagan festival.
Wrong. It was incorporated in Christianity, because Constantine was afraid of losing political power and was afraid of the wrath of the Romans, but on the other side Christianity was in the rise, so he mixed it up like they were Christian holydays, but in fact they were repackaged and renamed pagan holydays.
Here, let's go the other way and consult the Bible, physical and biological evidence.
1. Proclaiming a decree for everyone to be taxed and they had to go from their place of birth to Bethlehem, AT THE END OF AUTUMN/WINTER? Really?
2. Luke 2:1-4 ... " And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judæa, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:)" - which was in these days 145km trip.
So let's look at Mary.
3. Mary - at that time 8 months pregnant, riding for days on a donkey, 145km, in the middle of December?
Really?
4. Luke 2:1 - 8 "And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." - In that area, the flock is in the stable since October, because of the rain, low temperatures and so on. There are NO shepherds, especially NOT during the night!!!
5. Whenever you see a picture, postcard of the birth of the Jesus, there are little lambs in it. - Sheep are giving birth ONLY (!!!) ONCE A YEAR - IN THE SPRING TIME!!!
So, Jesus is most likely born IN THE SPRING!!
Christmas is a date that "church authorities" AGREED upon, it wasn't mention in the Bible, which makes it people's "law", and I won't follow people's traditions.
Pagan holydays are not set ON THE DAY when Christian celebrate, but day/days before/after pagan rituals and holydays, or are set in the time frame of the week or so.
So, let's just name a few.
1. Halloween - All Saints' Day, also known as All Hallows' Day, the Feast of All Saints, the Feast of All Hallows, the Solemnity of All Saints, and Hallowmas;
2. Epiphany (05-06.01.) in Italy is called - La Befana, and it literally means - the coming of the witch - comes from the pagan traditions connected to the New Year, and to the twelve days following the winter solstice, better known as Yule (in Scandinavia).
3. St. John's eve bonfires (associated with Ba'al and "purification" through fire, or Ba'al's fires): "The lighting of sacred fires so close to midsummer suggests that, like so many Irish calendar customs, it is the remnant of an earlier pagan tradition" (going through fire = sacrifice). ... Modern Druids celebrate this festival as Alban Hefin. Arguably the most important festival of the Druid traditions ... and so on.
I DON'T CARE what holydays are set by the people, people's holydays and laws are NOT my laws. God is my law.
I celebrate Jesus's birthday every single day EXCEPT at 25.12., or better say - in that time frame (17.12. - 25.12).
Literally nothing you said is about Saturnalia and you call me wrong and then go on to refute points that I never made. Did you even read what I said? As a Christian I know that Christmas is not Biblical , and it's irrelevant, since Saturnalia celebrations haven't resembled Christmas ones for almost any time in history anyway.
@@checkoutnow5464 I told you everything you needed to know to understand what YOU are talking about. "...it changed a lot and became much less important due more multicultural influences across the Roman Empire", because you have no clue what YOU are talking about. It didn't change "JUST BECAUSE", it changed purposely for the political reasons, which I've explained before, and Constantine has done it as a "compromise" - pagan festivities under the "Christian" names, to keep both sides happy and stay in power.
It's not a matter of celebrating the same things in the same way, with the same rules and reasons - so even the dumbest of the dumbest turds would see the obvious and through the BS, it's about selling you the pagan festivities under the name of Jesus and in the time frame that had nothing to do with the Christ - but had everything to do with the festivities of the Sol Invictus / Saturnalia / Yule & so on.
And, I am a Christian, and born catholic.
The difference between you and me is that, you'll take whatever they tell you with the shrug in "so what" manner. I won't, because Christmas is a LIE and God's word is above all !!
Mark 7-8: "For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do."
Plus, Jesus wasn't born in December.
But mike..Mike... how else are athiests and extreme hater Christians supposed to make themselves feel superior?
They don't, maybe they need to humble themselves and do something better and useful with their lives lol.
Is this REALLY just a 3 minute clip? I feel like there's a lot more
It's a clip from a full sermon you can also find on his channel. It's fairly old, so you'll have to dig a bit.
@@isaacholzwarth thank you! Is it a 20 Q's episode?
Here’s the full video. Have a great evening!
czcams.com/video/ugxJBb0lPXQ/video.html
Read "4000 Years of Christmas". Mike you really missed this one big time.
The problem with celebrating Christs Birthday on 25th December in my mind is that it is so entwined with Santa and the rest of the traditions. From what I understand of the scriptures is that God will not share His Glory - In Isaiah 42:8 God states, “I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another,
"but, but its pagan. they even have proto-santa claus - a guy with red suit coming for the kids."
You don’t have to celebrate Santa. I don’t either. The rainbow has been perverted as well as sexuality but do you abstain from all of that? The devil perverts anything to do with Christ.
What about gift giving? Was that mainly from Saturnalia?
We can always use bible(the foundation and instructions of our faith) to tell us why we should not celebrate the pagan originated holiday of Christmas and put the explanations of the world aside for a bit.
Yeshua/Jesus was not born on December 25th. Yeshua was born during the Feast of Tabernacles...you know, Emmanuel- Yah/God with us. Scripture lays it out for us in the story of when Elizabeth was pregnant with John the Baptist and connect some dots. Luke chapter 1.
Bible tells us in Leviticus 23 to "celebrate" the Feast of Tabernacles forever!
Bible tells us He is a jealous God and gave us the commandment to have no other gods against His face... Exodus 20:3(in other words don't lump Him together with other gods). The christmas holiday is linked back to being the birthdate of many other gods.
No where in scripture does it tell us to celebrate Yeshua's birth but rather we are told to remember His death...Passover! Deuteronomy 16:3.
We are instructed all throughout scripture to not do as the nations do in celebrating their gods to be like them and many warnings in the New Testament for doing the traditions of men and NOT the commandments of Yah.
We are told to be bereans and study scripture daily to see if what we are told is true.
We are told to be set apart...that we are to come out of the world...that the things of it are hostile to Yah...yes we have to live here but we have options to do things the way Yah told us to.
We are told that our hearts are wicked and deceitful...so we don't listen or act on our feelings, we see what Yah says and do that.
I pray that believers will research for themselves what Yah says and compare that to all things to see if they line up.
Isaiah 55:11 "so is My Word that goes forth from My mouth - it does not return to Me empty(void), but shall do what I please, and shall certainly accomplish what I sent it for."
Let us care more about what Yah instructs and says than the things of the world and traditions of men not founded in His Word.
The Bible never says you can ONLY celebrate Passover. Even the angels celebrated when Christ was born. The timing of it is just so Christians have a better alternative to pagan holidays (which are the traditions of man). When it comes to bad habits, the Bible's advice is to start doing a good habit to replace it. Christmas was like a good habit to replace the bad one... unfortunately commercialism took over, just like it did with Easter. Too many people think that Easter is about a bunny that lays chocolate eggs and they don't even know that there's a connection between Easter and the resurrection of Christ. Any way to spread the word of Christ should be encouraged. I'm sure many people have been saved starting with the Christmas story (which is how the gospels of Matthew and Luke begin). It's not the the whole gospel by any stretch, but it is the beginning and Christmas is one way to get the word out. Of course it's important to include the entire gospel, which most churches do (at least the ones I've been to), but Christmas really draw seeking people in.
At it's most basic, celebrating Christmas is reading the first few chapters of the New Testament and to remember that God sent his son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world would be saved through him. It's about spreading God's love. I think that's founded in His Word.
Amen! Our first clue should be how much the world loves the holiday, and that it's not really associated with Christianity outside of America. It's *still* worldly and pagan.
If Christians today decided they liked the celebrations of a drag show and pride parade, but wanted God to be ok with it, and so they decided to throw a "proud of Jesus" parade with the same festivities, we could very easily see how the incorporation of pagan things into the church with Christian names is just an excuse to sin.
@@commenter5901 We can spread the gospel of Messiah by speaking His Word in Spirit and in Truth. If people want the worlds version so be it...the set apart believers will want the truth.
Many atheists and wiccans mock christianity because of the hypocrisy the majority of the church engage in for reasons like this. They know it's not about Christ and that it's not His birthday. They fully know it's pagan.
Yah means what He says and says what He means. Our problem is deviating from that to please ourselves and/or man.
I thought there was more to the video 😆
The full video is linked in the description.
Mike, I served in the Navy for 30 years and loved it. I often doubted the motives of leadership, do not like
the US industrial war complex, and I was frustrated with the amount of bullcrap we had to do and deal with.
I loved it, though, and still do.
It is very similiar to being Catholic. I found God in AA and two priests introduced me to Jesus during the pre-
marriage interview (My wife is a lifetime Catholic). They asked me what I thought about Jesus and I said I could
not relate to all the theology and dogma. They said, "God just wants us to love, Dave," and they had me. That was
2007 and the Catholic church has since captured me one millimeter at a time. It's wonderful.
The thing is, brother, you are not going to find Catholicism in the catechism and past crimes. The Sacred Heart of Jesus
lives in Catholics everywhere as it has for centuries.
Go to a Mass with a loving Catholic and be present. For one, there is the reading from the Old Testament, the second reading
from the New Testament, a responsorial Psalm, then the Gospel reading, which is formally done (as it should be, it's our Lord, right?)
When was the last time you heard something from the Gospels in a Protestant church?
Hey, I think the Pope and the Magisterium are dudes just like me, humans, fallible, and I am certain they would say that, too.
There are many things I don't agree with or maybe even understand, but what I do understand makes sense and is the bridge to my relationship with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Catholicism has taught me how to participate in Jesus' upside down Kingdom and I am eternally grateful. Keep up the good work you do and Merry Christmas!
Mike says "!This doesn't look much like Christmas , does it ?"
Has he seen wild Christmas and Office Parties, notorious for drunkennes and immorality? What planet is he on?
Nimrods birthday is Dec. 25th!
In pre-Christian era Pagan celebrated Seasonal festivals around the winter solstice ("Symbol of rebirth of Sun or Son") later converted to Christianity. Santa Clause, Decorating trees, Jesus birth also find its association with 25th Dec.
Saturnalia was one of Pagan ancient Roman festival in honor of the god Saturn, held from 17 December to 23 December. It was most popular holiday in the Roman calendar.
During Saturnalia celebrations:
1.All work and business were suspended
2.Slaves were given temporary freedom to say and do what they liked
3.People would wear a cap of freedom - the pilleum -
usually worn by slave
4.People were permitted to gamble in public
5.Chariot racing
Saturnalia was the result of the merging of 3 winter festivals over the centuries.
1. Day of Saturn - the god of seeds and sowing
2. Bruma - Day of a feast day celebrating the shortest day
3. Opalia- feast day dedicated to Saturn’s wife
217 BC a huge public feast was arranged at the oldest temple in Rome, the Temple of Saturn. Macrobius confirms this, and says that the "rowdy" participants would spill out onto the street, with the participants shouting, “Io Saturnalia!”
Closing days of the Saturnalia were known as "Sigillaria" because of the custom of making, toward the end of the festival, presents of candles, wax models of fruit, and waxen statuettes which were fashioned by the Sigillarii.
Yule is another pagan festival that had customs absorbed into the Christian Christmas was the festival of Yule by Germanic people. The familiar custom of burning the Yule log dates back to earlier solstice celebrations and the tradition of bonfires
Another association of 25th Dec is the birth date of Jesus. However, It was first identified as date of Birth by Sextus Julius Africanus in 221. For long time 6th January was celebrated as Jesus b'day.
336CE, the church settled 25 December as the date of Christ’s nativity. Christians wanted to keep Christmas distinguished from Saturnalia traditions such as gambling, drinking, worshipping god. Christmas become a major Christian festival in 9th century.
Decorating Christmas trees with candles is another celebration on Christmas Eve celebration was first known in Strasbourg in 1605. Trees were decorated with 24 candles as 24th opening to 25th Dec from 1st Dec. The no. of candles later reduced to 4.
Santa Clause 'Saint Nicholas' 'Father Christmas' is said to be 4th Century Greek Bishop of Myra. Martin Luther propagated gifting to children in Christmas to focus children interest to Christ rather than Saints.
Why would a government ask it's people to travel in winter to pay taxes?
Because it’s the government.....😂
Idk, why would a government tax its people for literally dying or fine them for collecting rainwater?
Christmas is on the 25th because that's when the Magi arrived in Bethlehem.
"Karma" is a Hindu concept where if you do good to others, good will be returned to you. Does this mean we should stop doing good because of that, even though Jesus commanded it in Matthew 7?
Exactly. Merry Christmas!
I mean when the non believers talk about 'pagan feasts' what are they talking about. A feast to celebrate the harsh winter that would often kill people. Provision for the Winter.. The Harvest. The fact that the days would start getting longer and warmer. So why do these people accuse Christians of appropriating food and seasons? The tree is an evergreen that dosnt fall victim to the snow. It's actually a weird claim to make in every way. As though Christians aren't allowed to have feasts. The Hebrew feast are around the same time of year. Actually the claim is not just weird, it's just dumb. MAYBE you could argue leaving offerings to Santa should be left out, thats the same argument i have with trick or treating at Halloween. Because that most definitely IS a pagan thing. I saw one of these in my feed the other day accusing Christians of being stupid and i felt like jumping on there and saying akshully, but decided to leave them to their smug ignorance, I've already tried to get these people to snap out of it.
Tired of "Christians" trying to shame True followers of Christ!
Well, call me uneducated, but i have never heard of this that I can remember in the last 50 years
Let us be thankful to the internet. We now have information at our fingertips. It is harder for them to lie to us.
Remember be ye followers of Paul, for Paul laid the foundation!
Just a comment, by the time Saturnalia became popular, Romans didn't perform human sacrifices anymore. It was already considered barbarian before christianity rose.
It isn't only saturnalia, it's the birthdate of tammuz, a pagan god. He is celebrated on the winter solstice. Dec 25th is his birthdate. Also, read Jeremiah 10:2-4 about christmas trees. In verse 2, it specifically says NOT to worship Yah as the pagans do. That tree is a pagan symbol of an idol. Secondly, we as believers should not ever want to associate ourselves with anything ungodly, anyway. Third, in Luke chapter 1, if you read about Elizabeth and Mary, it says that Mary conceived Christ in the 6th month (June), which means Christ was born in March, 6 months after John the Baptist, who was born on Sept 8th, if you do the math.
Ah yes, the legendary "Christmas tree" passage.
The one about craftsmen working the wood of the tree and then overlaying it with precious metals, carrying it around the city on staves, then praying to it despite it having a mouth that can't speak and feet that can't walk.
Definitely a Christmas tree.
I love how Pastor Mike has to come along and straighten atheists out about Christmas every year… kinda like Santa Claus.
Mike Jesus Messiah was not born around the festival of lights... The messianic faith determined his birth was around the feast of Tabernacles late September early October when the sheep were out in pasture. They determine by the birth of Yohan the cousin of Yahoshua, Miriam and Elizabeth 6 months apart in pregnancy........ Do we worship in spirit and in truth the birth of Messiah on Christmas?
You can celebrate his birth 365 days a year if you want. The date was more strategically picked as an alternative. It's much harder to convince people to stop partying when you don't give them an alternative. Replacing bad habits with good ones is a biblical concept.
@@commenter5901 understood
The crazy part is this guy has a following, he needs to do more research on Saturnalia. Because Saturnalia is definitely modern day Christmas, and yes, Christmas is definitely pagan. There’s nowhere in the Bible showing Chrysler born on December 25 where did that date come from? 🤔 That’s why Christmas was outlawed in the United States until the 1880s.
Ok, please permit me a moment, I'm not trying to argue but have to ask something. A serious question. We know that Religious leaders CHOSE to celebrate Christ's birth on December 25, that day is not told to us by His Word, His birth (not date) is given in scripture, as we should celebrate Him everyday. , , regardless of the reason is it really ok for me to worship God and Christ anyway I want? If no, then can you provide a chapter and verse calling us to take up traditions from everybody else? Or to make our holidays look like everybody else's to blend into the world ? If yes, if , I can worship God and Christ anyway I want then everybody is correct then... there are people calling themselves Christian Witches who claim they love their cauldrons and Bibles the same. Also those other forms calling themselves Christian whom many Christian CZcamsrs call fake teachers show how those versions are wrong a lot using the Bible, well, then they would be wrong. Or saying and proving cults claiming to be Christian are not right and then saying Man chose this day to celebrate Christ's birth so we should is actually wrong. Logically both cannot be right . Shouldn't we do what the Holy Bible says? Not what man chooses? If christians are called to be set apart, but we look exactly like the world celebrating our times or making them up to look like theirs, are we not looking to the world and refusing to be set apart? I'm not trying to argue or fight. I'm just asking if we should follow God's Word or man's ideas and traditions? If we can follow man's traditions then we need to stop saying other people claiming Christianity are actually wrong if what they do cannot be found in the Holy Bible. If we can do what we want, worship God and Christ anyway we want, then nobody is wrong. Then they, like us are just each being fully convinced in their own minds they are right. Perhaps why we have over 40 thousand plus denominations. Because every one is doing their own thing. The way they want, while not following their Bibles as written. Idk about you, but following the Bible seems like the better choice. Jesus is after all the Word made Flesh and was with God and Is God according to John 1. I'm not condemning people for celebrating a tradition or choice of man instead of God's Word. Merely pointing out that if it's ok to worship Him how we want, then nobody out there we say isn't following their Bibles is wrong.... It's saying one thing and doing another. Said lovingly while wondering who said in the Bible we can do whatever we want. However we want. Also I agree with the majority of your videos and see your heart and passion. I just cannot celebrate a single day out of the year, that Man chose, Not Given In scripture..... to do that anymore. I understand those who do and am not trying to throw stones. Just concerned when we say "those people are wrong because it clashes with the Holy Bible" when we say we are right when we clash with the Holy Bible. God bless.
It’s not education if it’s about a belief.
I've been a naive atheist, believing this stuff, for the majority of my life, so I get it. But man, what a world it would be if "skeptics" actually verified their claims.
Jesus was born in April. The Christians weren't getting $ in their plates at church, so they moved his birthday to interrupt the Pagan Winter Solstice holiday
I listened to Jonathan Cahn recently and he was explaining how we can know the about day that Jesus was born. While I’m not one of his biggest fans, I found myself agreeing with what he was saying. He gave Biblical explanations for choosing around Nissan 14 or 15 and it made a lot of sense. Isn’t it interesting that we see no biblical evidence of celebrating Jesus’ birth on an annual basis nor was there an annual celebration of His death? I would never have a nativity set because the Wise men did not see Jesus until He was a child, living in a house. If people really wanted to celebrate the birth of Jesus, why wouldn’t they want to make the entire celebration about Him?
Even IF it was meant to celebrate sola invictus, it doesn’t matter. The question is, who are we worshipping on that day.
Halloween isn’t at all like it was meant to be when it was first established. It was a three day festival that I still disagree with.
The first day was the evening before the main, succeeding two days All Hallows day (All Saints day) and All Souls’ Day. This was to honour all saints (which I have not problem with in some respects) and pray for the recently departed to make it to heaven on their journey (to come out of purgatory).
That is the part I disagree with fervently. I believe we can have a festival, in theory, that celebrates those who have ended the race of life and made it to heaven, and the next day Mourn for those who have gone to Hell.
I think that Christians should reconsecrate that festival but do it right. No bad theology. Use it as a time to reflect the hope in Christ, but the evil that we are.
My argument: We have sufficient knowledge of astrological patterns to determine exactly what the Star of Bethlehem was, and therefore are able to pretty much pinpoint the date the wise men showed up in Bethlehem and PRESENTED GIFTS to Jesus. Guess when that day was...
It was estimated to be when Jesus was about 2 years old.
I think you mean astronomical instead of astrological. Astrology is divination (fortune telling) via the stars, whereas astronomy is the scientific study of outer space. Secondly, I've heard many theories on what exactly the star of Bethlehem was, but I didn't think any were certain, so I'm not sure where exactly you're getting it from that we can pinpoint a speciric date.
They picked the 21st, then shifted the calender. And the only reason they picked then was because they wanted to keep Saturnalia.
Your evidence?
@@godsgoldenacres4290 "trust me"
@@zachv well stated haha
What do you protestants think about the word Christmas itself? It means Christ's Mass. I would expect you guys to object to that term more.
Just so you know..
Jesus was born around March or April time ..
That’s why there are stories of lambs being around at his birth
I do wonder if those who claim Christmas is a pagan holiday are inadvertently doing the work of the devil. There are many reasons I think this. One, if Christmas was a pagan holiday why do those who don't belong to Christ want to remove it? Think about how many are insulted by someone saying "Merry Christmas". Second, if it was created as a pagan holiday, why were the majority of Christmas carols, before the early 20th century, about Christ coming to save us? There are many other reasons I think it is the work of the devil. Including the fact that it causes division, which God hates. Majority of Christians know Jesus wasn't born on December 25th but it was the day chosen to celebrate his birth. Pick another day of the year to celebrate it and I will celebrate it then. After all, by celebrating the birth of Christ we are following our father's example. God celebrated Jesus coming to earth by sending angels to announce it, by sending shepherds to view Jesus, by sending the maji with gifts. For me, I really think it boils down to removing or destroying Christmas is just another part in the intent to destroy western civilization.
Yep. Let’s all relax and celebrate our savior. Born to die so that I may be forgiven!
The argument is more that the pagan holidays came first and then Christians came along and stuck our holidays at the same time as the pagan ones. The pagan holidays were there for hundreds, possibly thousands of years before Christ was born. It would be like, if the church decided to make a new holiday to celebrate something good in the life of Christ, like his baptism, and they decided to put that holiday on October 31. For the sake of my example, lets call it "Water Day". If Water Day suddenly picked up in popularity and became the main holiday celebrated on the 31st and it eventually became so popular that most people completely forgot about Halloween, then, in a few hundred years from now, people might say that Water Day was a pagan holiday that Christians took over (the pagan holiday being Halloween in this example).
So, Christmas itself has always been Christian no matter how you look at it... it's in the name Christ-mas, like a mass that celebrates Christ. All the songs came long after. The argument is more that Christians used a holiday that they created to cover over a pagan holiday. Which, to be honest, is exactly what they did. If you want to stop people from one habit, you replace it with another, more healthy habit. If you don't want kids to do drugs, get them involved in sports or activities at church or school. If you don't want people to do human sacrifice, celebrate the birth of a baby instead.
The one that stumps me is when people give the same argument about Easter when Easter is very clearly just after Passover, which was a Jewish tradition for thousands of years. Christmas wasn't celebrated till about 300 years after Christ was born. If it were historically accurate, it would be celebrated close to the same time as Easter. I don't think that any of that matters though. We do communion throughout the year, not just during Passover. We can celebrate Christ's birth any day of the year as well, even in place of pagan festivals.
God doesn't hate division.
@@commenter5901 I understand what the argument is and also where it comes from. The argument that it was placed close to a pagan holiday to replace it is more than likely true. However, the argument that it's a pagan holiday because of that isn't true and that is my point. I know people (they are legalistic) who have been deceived, perhaps scammed is a better word, and believe it is a pagan holiday. I don't know if they were deceived because they are legalistic (choke on a gnat but swallow the camel whole kind of people) or if it's because they were into the commercialized Christmas and never really celebrated Jesus coming to earth. I do know that it divides the body and works in favor of those who are against Christ. What better way to help remove Christ from Christmas and society than to convince Christians to not celebrate Christmas. Remove prayer in school. Remove the ten commandments. Remove Jesus from public Christmas by no nativity on public property. Don't say "Merry Christmas". Christmas is a pagan holiday. I see this as just another way to edge God out of our society. Unfortunately, some people will believe anything. As for me, when I remember Christmas carols, my heart exults in Jesus coming to save me and I worship and thank him. I don't think about some pagan god. When I see a lit Christmas tree, I enjoy the beauty of it. It's not wrong to enjoy it, I don't bow down and worship it. God created the tree and gave man creativity. The gifts I give remind me of the gift God gave to me. As much joy that I have in giving, is nothing compared to the joy God had when he sent his son to the earth to bring humans back to him. Jesus is in every part of my Christmas and he always will be.
Great reply, Mom dunse. It amazes me how people say it's pagan but what pagan celebration stresses the message of Christ? People put nativities in their yards, on the mantles, in town squares and on TV. People actively do this to celebrate CHRISTmas! That's not a pagan thing to do! It's a visual that ACTIVELY gets the saving work of Christ out in front for all to see! And you don't see non Christians out starting petitions, complaining on public platforms and holding signs to end Halloween due to it being "preachy".
Can you add your sources (or at least some) to your videos or am I just missing them? I think you arguments are great and I would like to show my husband but he is a major sceptic.
God does not do coincidence. God despises her feast, don't forget.
JW's have been telling people this for years that Xmas is not a Christian thing, same as the cross, the tringity etc......
A sermon I have heard at Christmas time is that a gift that Jesus gave was that he died for us to be forgiven, so he was born to die. That idea is part of the Old Testament prophesy and his reason for being in much of the New Testament. Jesus gave a statement that contradicted that. He corrected the idea by saying our own forgiveness is what reminds us of our innocence, not sacrifice.
"If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent."
Jesus never calls the people innocent. Mt.9,13 continues with "for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance". Also, if Jesus was actually against the sacrifice mentality, he probably would've interfered when John described him as the sacrifical lamb to take away the sins of the world in John 1,29. And the context of the Matthew-passage is also not a debate about sacrifices but the merciless behavior of the Pharisees towards the people Jesus interacted with. The passage he quotes isn't intended to do away with sacrifices, but rather stress that they're done in vain if you don't act merciful in your everyday life, therefore revealing yourself as a hypocrite.
@@commentor93 "they're done in vain if you don't act merciful in your everyday life,"..
They are always done in vain; his own sacrifice included. It's forgiveness that ends the idea that we are sinners.
When we "think" we are sinners (those he calls to repentance) then forgiveness /repentance (the Greek word "metanoia" which means to change your mind) changes that false thinking of who you are. You are actually created in the likeness of God, Who is innocent. Can you change what God has created?
@@robertdouglas8895 Wait, so you think Jesus came to earth and let himself be tortured and killed despite knowing all the time that it would be in vain? And who grants us the forgiveness in your opinion? Do you have Bible verses to support your ideas in these two cases?
And I don't know what you'd include into "change what God has created", but I assume that we can change things like the physical side of us by breaking bones, the psychological side by getting a depression etc. and in the same way the innocent side by sinning.
@@commentor93 Who did God create us to be in his likeness? Is God a separate body, separate from his creation? A reason for the Crucifixion was to show us who we are as Christ was: spirit that operates a body. We operate cars but we are not cars.
What is our source? Body or spirit.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
@@commentor93 We get to the point of realizing that sacrifice doesn't work to rid us of sin. That's the reason for Jesus'sacrifice. Then we can look again at the Crucifixion and we find the reason. He felt separate from God. How did he return to union? "Forgive them for they know not what they do."
I believe Its good to celebrate Gods goodness and faithfulness at the end of each year, but the urge to celebrate Christmas for most Christians is just an excuse for debauchery.
Like you have said lets take away the trees, lights, gifts and glamours and see if many Christians would still want to be a part of it.
And the big questions should be
Was Jesus born on the 25th of December?
Were Christians asked anywhere in the bible to chose a day to continuously celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ?.
Is Jesus truly being honoured all over the world on that day?.
Cause i see that there is animosity against most Christians would chose not to participate in the public celeberations that happens on that day.
And i wonder how such behaviour is for the building up of the body of Christ.
Orthodox Christmas is January 7, using a different calendar. It doesn't get the same commercial hype that Protestant Christmas gets. Maybe try switching from the Gregorian calendar to the Julian calendar for your holy days, it's pretty cool and keeps it away from a fair bit of the commercialism!
Christmas in America today is so far apart from Saturnelia, Tammuz, Sol Invictus and blah blah blah that trying to connect them together is absolutely absurd. Commom sense needs to be brought back to the church along with sanctification.
Today's Christmas is a good tradition. If you don't want to celebrate it, that's OK too. Just don't bring Jeremiah 10 to the table and butcher the word of God while trying to justify why you don't celebrate it.
Refresh my memory, is this the verse about carving a tree into an idol?
@@MistyEry yes, that is the verses referred to.
@@MistyEry yeah, cutting down a tree and giving it shape, covering it with silver and gold.
Yule is the main source of Christmas I’d say. Yule tree, Yule log, mistletoe, Yule boar(Ham). Even Thor flying around in a chariot with two goats is too close to Santa Claus. Can’t deny the intense similarities.
@Buddy _ Yeah might be, but neither Santa nor Thor has anything to do with the Bible. Apples and oranges. One is myth and the other actual history. Nobody who celebrates Christmas, neither the Christian version nor the marketing version, has Thor in mind. They are their own thing that share the same name. What I'm definitely against is to give symbolic meaning to things that don't have them. For example, saying the pine tree represents the trinity. That's unbiblical.
I have come to the conclusion that no matter what day Christ is celebrated (either His birth or resurrection) people will still find a way to denounce it, disrespect it, or discard it. Why? Because their father isn't the one true God but the devil. So instead of getting angry at them (like I used to do. And still do from time to time, I must admit) I just turn my heart back to God and intercede for them in prayer! Pray that they get opportunities to know Christ as their savior. So than one day we can all laugh about this silliness in heaven and worship our risen King with a joyful noise.
The Bible shows Jesus commanding that His followers celebrate His death with the new symbols on Passover. Nowhere in the entirety of scripture does it ever show anybody being inspired by God to say that Jesus' birth or resurrection was to be celebrated. Nowhere.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 "was to be celebrated"? No. But, they did celebrate his birth in multiple Gospels.
This winter Solstice practice is so over explained If you want the holiday keep it Scriptures don't support it however you don't want to be called legalistic Here's an idea Research approximate time Christ was born and call it hmmm... Christmas
Sorry but I don’t see this as an argument against it being pagan. What about the 12 days of Christmas? Christian’s picked one day and adopted partial traditions and put Jesus in it.
I celebrate Jesus.
I don’t get my underwear in a twist if you don’t.
He is the Lord of glory.
At this time of year His name is on the lips of many.
To that I say hallelujah.
the more important question: is Jesus Christ your personal savior and how is your relationship with Him
Yes, it's pagan. All the traditions come from pagan traditions. Sol Invictus. We don't get to choose holy days. God did that long ago. If we actually loved Him, we would do those days, not the ones we like.
Not historically true. I’ll have a short video on Sol Invictus in a few days.
@@MikeWinger Are you saying we have the authority to create holy days and get rid of others?
How dare these pagans compare their gay holiday to Christmas. Disrespectful
If you compare Christian customs around the world, they are very much different even though we all more or less believe the same basic things. That's because Christianity has been flexible enough to allow people to incorporate their own local secular customs while (mostly) maintaining the same core beliefs. This has always been and still is a huge strength of Christianity, not a problem.
Or one could say "cultural" instead of secular.
Indeed, WT. A normal Sunday worship service in an African village will look very, very different from one in a Philippine jungle or an Alaskan Eskimo town. But they all worship the same Lord in ways that please him.
Strength not a problem ...? Calling good evil and evil good
It's exactly the problem. It's why Israel was punished over and over and over again.
@Mom By The Sea
No, the Israelites were punished for worshiping other gods. They had very specifically prescibed laws for worship of the One true God. Christians do not have that same set of ceremonial laws. So people worshiping with their own cultural flair is not remotely the same thing.
Sorry, I have to rant a bit:
And to be clear, I don't mind if people have these convictions, it is a tricky issue. My only problem is the unending stream of Pharisees in CZcams comments.
I don't get what's wrong with celebrating pagan holidays. The same people who relentlessly, self-righteously explain (to us gullible, undiscerning Christians who don't study original languages to create conspiracy theories surrounding the Bible) that our holidays are pagan: they will gladly use the week day and month names of pagan origin; most of the things in their houses including their houses are of pagan origin - they were made by non-Christians with non-Christian motives. Most of the food you buy is of pagan origin, designed to nicely satisfy the pagan's stomach. Most stores and malls are completely dictated by the minds of pagans to attract pagans. Our streets were made by pagans. The government is pagan. Many plants and animals have been bred by pagans. You whitewashed Pharisees yourselves are of pagan origin. I am of pagan origin. Because if you go back far enough, we all have ancestors who were pagans. And we were born depraved sinners.
If you think it's wrong to bring a tree into your house and decorate it, to give gifts to people, to put up decorations for a winter holiday, simply because it is of pagan origin, you are wrong. I submit to you that if we use this principle, we can not do any thing that has been done, for all of it has been done by pagans since the foundation of the world. When I go out and spend money on someone in my family for our traditional gift-giving, I am not bowing down to any pagan god. There is a great temptation to bow to the gods of earthly happiness or acceptance from man, etc. But that is a different problem. That is the true problem with Christmas. Whether it contradicts biblical principles. Not whether sinners have done it in the past. It is disgusting legalism to even look down on one who practices this holiday. Read Colossians 2 three times without your little excuses, and come back and tell me not to celebrate this "pagan festivity".
Well said
I think you missed the point. The point is that non-Christians are saying that Christians hijacked a pagan holiday. It's not that Christians are saying that you shouldn't celebrate in a certain way, it's that pagans are saying that Christians should give them their holiday back.
And how exactly is food pagan? Paul talks about food that is sacrificed to idols and he just basically says: food is food, even if it's been sacrificed to pagan idols, it's still ok to eat it. And, to be fair, some of us have Jewish origin, not pagan, but I get your point. The majority of people were not Jewish if you go back far enough.
There are obvious problems with SOME pagan holidays. I think we're not hypocrites (and definitely not Pharisees, unless you're Jewish) by saying that you shouldn't participate in human sacrifice. But I do have Korean Christian friends who celebrate traditional Korean holidays and I see no problem with celebrating a cultural day as long as you aren't worshipping a false idol or going against scripture. Celebrations are a good way for people to connect.
But the secular argument that Christmas used to be pagan, till Christians came along and changed it, is pretty much propaganda that incorrectly makes the uninformed believe that the whole birth of Christ was just fabricated.
@@commenter5901 I was addressing specifically people like the Hebrew roots movement
@@commenter5901 99% of the time I see the "UhM aCktUaLlY ChRiSTMas iS PagAn anD yoU aRE sInNniNg bY cElEbRaTIng It" comments, they are from supposed Christians, not pagans
@@drawingdragon Keep justifying your sin, let's see how that works our for you.
NOT ONE shred of evidence exists from their time period accusing anyone of pagan worship being the motivation for celebrating the birth of Messiah. NOT ONE statement from any church father or anyone else would suggest they joined in a pagan celebration dressing it up as christian. We do have a calendar from Rome wherein Christmas coincides with the festival of the unconquered on Dec 25 but the earliest date for this celebration is 354 during Arulean's reign who instituted the festival. Christmas was already being celebrated a couple of hundred years prior so it does not take a rocket scientist to deduce that the enemy desired to twist and distort the celebration of Christmas, not the other way around.
Now.......what a pagan is doing at the time of the winter solstice....who cares! A pagan worshipper who thinks there is such a thing as a sun god and assigns him a birthday is just ignorant to the truth. He sees the sign in the heavens and instead of worshipping the true and only God, he bows down to worship the sign instead. But that does not mean that the truth is to be denied. Paul reminds us that "the earth is the LORD'S and the fullness thereof", "an idol is nothing". A pagan cannot claim a day as his. He cannot claim trees as defiled. He cannot claim the sun is his own personal sign. He cannot claim bows of holly and stars and angelic hosts that brought us the message in Luke 2, as "paganism". YHVH used a tree in the garden to symbolize eternal life long before a pagan got ahold of a tree. And YHVH has a tree of life in the new kingdom described in Revelation. YHVH asked Israel to carve tree images in the temple walls and doors. He commanded an olive tree be cut down and used to make the lamp stands. He instructed Israel to decorate their sukkah's with trees, bows and branches, at the Feast of Tabernacles. He declared a tree as "good". Who has the power to say otherwise? Certainly NOT a pagan worshipper.
Paul's understanding of this subject is quite clear. "Do not inquire" what all behavior a pagan has done or is doing. It's irrelevant unless the behavior itself is sin. Jeremiah 10 is about fashioning an idol to worship and bow down to, a transgression of the 2nd commandment. But in no way is Jeremiah declaring that it is now sin to decorate with a tree. He would be contradicting the Most High if that were so.
Scripture is clear that man has and does institute celebrations and they are honorable, i.e.: Purim, Hanukah. The earliest followers simply added another one in the same manner and with innocent intent to remember an incredible event frot with miracle after miracle. Would Isaiah have celebrated hundreds of years later what he prophesied? You bet! Would Haggai celebrate what he declared would happen? Of course. Were the angels directed from the Throne Room to celebrate? Absolutely.....and they said "we bring you good tidings of GREAT JOY THAT WILL BE TO ALL, for unto you is BORN this day in the city of Allie a Savior which is Christ the LORD".......definitely THE most important reason to celebrate!
The conception that Christmas had pagan foundations started to be viral in the 17th century with the English Puritans and Scottish Presbyterians, who abhorred all Catholic things.
They detested the feast days, specifically the Christmas feast with its joyous observances, celebrations and customs. Given that the Bible did not provide specific date of Jesus’ birth, the Puritans contended that it was a sinful device of the Roman Catholic Church that should be eliminated.
Subsequently, Protestant preachers like the German Paul Ernst Jablonski attempted to establish unverifiable works that December 25 was actually a pagan Roman feast, and dissuaded that Christmas was yet another example of how the medieval Catholic Church ‘paganized’ and corrupted ‘pure’ early Christianity.
About the same time, the Jesuit Jean Hardouin with his odd theory of widespread counterfeit that positioned in disbelief every historical source known, supported the Puritans. However, his research was largely questioned given his illogical assertions. For example, he claimed that all the Church Councils that transpired before Trent were fabricated and almost all the classical texts of ancient Greece and Rome incorrect, developed by monks in the 13th century. These contentions are obviously ridiculous, given the innumerable source documents reversing his “opinion”.
These two primary personalities claims for Christmas having pagan origins fantasize that the early Church chose December 25 so as to divert Catholics from Roman pagan festival days. The first claim pretends that it replaced the ancient Roman holiday of Saturnalia, a time of feasting and raucous merry-making held in December in honor of the pagan god Saturn.
It’s interesting to note that the Saturnalia festival always ended on December 23 at the latest. It is baloney for the Catholic Church to move away the attention of her faithful from a pagan celebration, and choose a date two days after that party which had already ended and anyone who desired had already made much of it.
Christmas established before the pagan Sun festival
The second assertion is that the Catholic Church allrgrdly instituted Christmas on December 25 to replace a solar feast made up by Emperor Aurelian in 274 AD, the Dies Natalis Solis Invicti (Birth of the Unconquered Sun).
The piece of evidence that Christmas penetrated the world calendar (the instituted Roman calendar) in 354 - which was after the establishment of the pagan feast - does not essentially mean the Church preferred that day to substitute the pagan holiday. There are two major grounds which harmonize with this conclusion:
1.) The detractors must not simply presuppose that the early Christians only started to celebrate Christmas in the 4th century. Until the Edict of Milan (a proclamation that permanently established religious toleration for Christianity within the Roman Empire), Catholics were persecuted and convened in catacombs (where the most important pontiffs of the third century would be buried), Therefore, there was no public festivity. But they celebrated Christmas among themselves prior to that Edict, as hymns and prayers of the first Christians corroborate.
2.) Emperor Aurelian launched the festival of the Birth of the Unconquered Sun in an attempt for a rebirth of a dying Roman Empire. In all probability, the Emperor’s action was a reaction to the growing attractiveness and strength of the Catholic religion, which was celebrating Jesus’ birth on December 25, rather than the other way around.
There is no substantiation that Aurelian’s celebration preceded the feast of Christmas. Aside from which, the establishing of this festival day (which never won popular support and soon died out) was an effort to give a pagan significance to a date already of importance to Roman Catholics.😍😍
Wrong the pagan holiday was move around from January, December, November the set by Pagan Catholic Church set it on December the 25th. part of the world actually celebrate in January still ever heard of the 12 days of Christmas that starts on the 26th of December. I went there for a holiday that they celebrate in but leave it to Netherlands where they put the reef with the candles on top of the heads that's also a pagan holiday all of it goes to get I went there for a holiday that they celebrate in but leave it to Netherlands where they put the reef with the candles on top of the heads that's also a pagan holiday all of it goes Together. Get your facts right . Plus Jesus was not born on December the 25th there is no way nowhere no how he could have been born on the 25th of December shepherd's do not have their stuff out in the pasture in the middle of the Winter But in the springtime. passover. We don't know if the exact date but we do know the sheep were out in the pasture with the shepherd. But you don't know why Jesus was born in Bethlehem duya?
My word, find the comma button...
The Roman Catholic Church didn't exist as a distinct entity until 1054, whilst the celebration of Christmas seems to go back to at least the 3rd century. And the Christians who celebrate on 6th January are not part of it. I'd be interested to know which pagan festival you think they stole and moved to 25th December, and which primary historical sources support your claim. I'd also be interested to know what your historical sources are for your claim that that dutch tradition is pagan (especially given that the dominant form of Christianity in the Netherlands is Protestant, and has been since long before they became independent from Spain).
The fact that Jesus probably wasn't born on 25th December is irrelevant to the issue in the same way that neither Queen Elizabeth II or King Charles III were born on the date they celebrate their official birthday. It seems to be fairly well established that some of the early Christians thought that Jesus, along with many of the Old Testament prophets had to have died on the day they were conceived - making their entire earthly existence last a whole number of years.
@@sitcomchristian6886 😂
And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. --- are shepherds in the field in late December? That's a 'no, no, no'
You don't know the topography of the country very well sir
@@joyceburns2613 yes I do
I bet the Jews at the foot of mount Sinai said the same thing when they too borrowed a pagan custom from the Egyptians and set up a golden calf, only for over 3,000 to lose their lives because of it.....Please do not test God by putting pagan customs in front of him....Can't say you have not been warned !
Well, I will test him.. I dare him, indeed.