Eric-WI | God Doesn't Send You To Hell, You Send Yourselves (A Sequel) | Atheist Experience 26.47
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- čas přidán 23. 11. 2022
- Atheist Experience 26.47 for November 20, 2022 with Forrest Valkai & Christy Powell LIVE at the Freethought Library
Eric from WI is calling to tell Atheists that God doesn’t send them to hell, but that we send ourselves.
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the longer being atheist the more u realize being taught things like hell from childhood is abusive af
It feels weirder and weirder every year since since when I believed this stuff. Deconstructing was part of arriving into adulthood for me, so I really have a hard time putting myself in their shoes and imagining how I could have possibly remained religious. Thankfully I didn't have an ultra hardcore religious upbringing, but I still feel like a chunk of my life was kind of taken from me, and growing up in the purity culture BS / feeling intense shame for acting on sexual urges definitely had an impact on how I developed through my teen years.
Yes. People should realize that the god that they believe in is like when you're watching a tv show or a movie for the second time. You know everything that will happen, but you do nothing.
its child abuse to learn them that shit.
Religious indoctrination is definitely a form of child abuse but it's so engrained in many societies it will be a very long time changing. All of the major religions love catching 'em young, it's not just a christian thing.
@hamzah5643 If your parents taught you not to play in the middle of an 8-lane highway at rush hour they must have been abusive as heck. Imagine the gall of trying to tell you what to do and not to do! If they didn't, they were abusive too and were negligent of failing to teach you the dangers in life. Some things are just plain warnings to keep you safe and direct your path out of a parents' love and concern for your wellbeing. You can disregard them at your own peril, but I'm sure you are not that foolish. John 3 16 invites you to know God's love and promise to you. It is given for your sake - to be mindful or to dismiss.
Jesus: "let me in"
Me: "why?"
Jesus: "to protect you"
Me: "from what?"
Jesus: "from what I'm going to do to you if you don't let me in!"
😮😂😂😂 I’m dying over here
I miss George Carlin
A classic!
That’s literally their religion
Jesus: Knock! Knock!
You: Who is it?
Jesus: The Creator of the universe who died on the cross for your sins.
You: Go to Hell!
Jesus: By your own words you shall be judged.
The caller is so mercifully free from the ravages of intelligence.
I’m almost jealous. Ignorance is fucking bliss.
My favorite line from Time Bandits!
The pastors dream
@@golden-63 The Pink Bunkadoo!
These are the only people who ever become "saved". Some genius will come here, see this, say it ain't so, then proceed to use the exact same buttered-toast-for-a-brain tactics
"He only beats me because he loves me and wants to see me do better" that's all I hear.
Just like my step dad
Damn those words hit hard
Battered theist syndrome.
Hence the violence that is commonplace in very religious households
This caller's last brain cell is bouncing around his head like a DVD screen saver.
Huh... I thought it got caught in the tumbleweed, which is why it kept rolling around and looping the same silly rhetoric.
I literally laughed out loud
😂😂😂
Loved the mental image, i will yoink it.
He's had someone think for him for so long that he can't think for himself anymore.
there is no hate like christian love
I have to remember that truism
Well said
Agreed, there really are no mass murderers like gods love. After all, God is actually Charlie fucking Manson. Beware, Helter Skelter is coming!
True as that is, it's repetitive cliché at this point.
Hear, hear!
My own personal hell would be trying to have a conversation with this guy.
I'd rather burn in hell than have to converse with this guy in heaven for eternity
Haha spot on
😂😂😂😂
his refusal to think critically amazes me
Christopher Hitchens put it best;
"Religion is a crutch for the weak minded"
"He has a special place, full of fire, and smoke, and burning, and torture, and anguish where he will send you to live and suffer, and burn, and choke, and scream, and cry forever and ever till the end of time ... but he loves you" - George Carlin
👍🏼... and he needs 💸
and he wants MONEY! 🤣
Can't argue with crazy 🤪 if you believe one fairy tale what's a few more.
Joe bless you all.
Accuracy was 100 with that joke. I miss that man.
Holy hell it's like this guy's two remaining brain cells are fighting for third place.
Nah, there's three of them and they're playing Pong.
Can I steal that one?
😂😂😂
Holy shit I dont think I could ever recover if someone said that to my face.
Can you imagine living in a country where guys like this are in charge?
Imagine living in a country where something like 80% are believers....
Unfortunately I don't have to imagine this scenario 🤦.
Yes. Yes I can. I went to a Baptist school that told us that you can’t read/trust ANYTHING said by “the secular world” (anyone whose not part of the Southern Baptist tradition). So we weren’t allowed to actually look up stuff the pastor said like:
Dinosaurs bones were planted by Jesus to test faith.
Christianity was the 1st religion.
There’s no such thing as “civilian collateral” when it comes to Muslims.
The Catholic Church must be destroyed.
Genocide was fine if the people committing it say that god wanted them to do it.
All non-Christian music, movies, shows, and books are atheist/secular/liberal propaganda.
Men have one less rib which was the one taken to make Eve.
Women have an extra rib for the sam reason.
Rock, metal, rap, funk, and blues are the cause of most crimes.
Every country in history knows that the Bible is true.
Non-believers deserve jail, exile to another country, or execution.
And the craziest one: He speaks for god such that he’s not even speaking it’s god speaking through him.
And he’s the average person in the US to some degree.
I can because I do.
It sucks.
It makes me glad that in the UK our leaders are only inbred idiots and it makes me feel sick that I can say that without being ironic or hyperbolic for about 90% of our history.
Forest and Christy are incredibly patient. This guy is ill equipped to have a logical conversation.
There was an journalist named Carl Von Ossietzky in Germany during the 1930's that was highly critical of Hitler and the Nazis. He was sent to a concentration camp for his outspoken opposition . He won the Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts which further enraged the Nazi government. He eventually died in captivity in 1938. At the Nuremberg Trials in 1946 I don't think the allies would have bought this line from a defense attorney, "The Nazis did not send Carl to a concentration camp. He sent himself there by opposing the Nazis."
Respect to Carl Von Ossietzky!
I am guessing the Defense either didn't think of it or thought it was stupid. In the meantime, Carl knew that Nazis existed and made the right choice.
That's a very good analogous case.
Well put!
@@psychologicalprojectionist " In the meantime, Carl knew that Nazis existed and made the right choice."
Thus highlighting how much more extreme and unreasonable this retarded "argument" about non believers sending themselves to Hell is.
but that is cause the Nazis were not the incarnation of a "you get out of consequences freely" card.
God's whole purpose as a human fiction is to remove consequences and open up a certain "afterlife" to the ones fulfilling all victory conditions...
My IQ dropped 20 points just from hearing this caller.
This guy is the human equivalent of that loading circle when a video is buffering
He’s a spinning beachball.
Like it!!
The caller’s mental gymnastics are truly impressive. Only indoctrination from birth can engender those contortions of thought.
Christianity is like a hostage style domestic abuse scenario, told you're bad, its your fault, and the abuser is forced to punish you, but loves you, and you're free to leave anytime you want but if you do they'll blow your brains out.
But it's your choice to leave and have your brains blow out instead of staying and being abused, right?
Fmd christian morality is pure evil.
*Knock knock.*
Who's there?
*It's Jesus. let me in.*
Why?
*I have to save you.*
Save me from what?
*From what I'm going to do to you if you don't let me in.*
You put it perfectly 💯🥇
That’s interesting,it’s a double bind
Yeah you can do what you want,but if you don’t follow my rules ,lake of fire
I appreciate how forrest talks on people's level without being condescending. Great man.
Still like talking to a wall though, idjit religious apologists.
It's quite a skill to be able to not only identify a person's level in real time but also calibrate your side of the discussion accordingly, so you're pushing gently at the ceiling of their understanding but still couching the concepts in language that makes sense to them.
It takes a special kind of patience. I ran out of my supply long ago.
Oh don't get it wrong, he can definitely be an ass, I've seen it.
Mind you they rightly deserved it but he was still an ass, qnd rightly so
I think he needed to go down a few more levels for this caller...
I haven’t been Catholic/Christian since I was 8 years old, but the fear of Hell still gets me some days. It’s a really messed up thing to teach small kids.
Remind yourself that hell is something a human made up.
It's like mom saying, "I know you weren't even here when this vase got broken, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to cut your little finger off, because you're here NOW, and somebody has to be punished for this".
Theist: God doesn't send you to Hell, you do.
Atheist: Who created Hell?
Theist: God, of course.
Atheist: Does God control the rules for who goes to Hell?
Theist: Yeah.
Atheist: Then who's sending me to Hell according to your beliefs?
Theist: You.
@@cajunking5987A pure idiotic view.
@Robby Why would you present this imagery conversation, here's an idea try a real conversation 🤭😄😃.
@@Assassin_of_Atheists Well, since there’s no such thing as ‘Christ,’ then I’m not too worried, buddy👍
@@Assassin_of_Atheists you know that you aren't following the written commandments of Ahura Mazda.
If anyone has seen the episode or spongebob where Patrick is having an argument with man Ray...this is basically that argument in a nutshell.
As a post point ... I’ve said before on this platform ... my parents have verbally condemned me to hell coz I didn’t follow their belief. It shattered me and my relationship with them. They still, to this day, when I allowed contact, express their belief I’m going to hell. I’ve since blocked all contact.
Ask them if, when they are in heaven and you are in hell, will they be able to see you burning in a lake of fire 24/7. Then ask them how that would feel for them after the first thousand years and if there is such a thing as PTSD in heaven.
When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time!
But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can’t handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!
@@sammur1977 I pray to Joe Pesci.
@@holgerlubotzki3469 thank you for making me laugh! Isaiah 45:7 also helps when I get sermonised about evil coming from Adam and Eve etc. Best wishes
@@sammur1977 so your god has paid for my sins ... why do I still go to hell? He is not loving or forgiving. He is a narcissist whom threatens hell. What kind of a god is that? Check out Isaiah 45:7. If you believe your bible is truth. Your god created everything and that includes, must include, evil or there are two gods vying for position. It doesn’t make sense, does it?
The more confidence I've found and earned, the firmer in my atheism I become. What kind of omnipotent omniscient being would actually care whether it's worshipped or not?
A non-benevolent one with a big ego and low self-esteem? ;-)
@klebbe1 who's horrible with his money
@@billmozart7288I see what you did there
The very idea of worship in & of itself is kinda creepy
Dude's brain was getting the blue screen of death from so much cognative dissonance and could only give the error message: god loves you, it's your choice, logic center not found.
Perfectly stated!
404 file not found. 😂
I need to remember this analogy for the future lol
This is funny for the first five minutes or so. Past that, it's honestly just heartbreaking that this guy is so brainwashed he literally can't form an original thought. He's just repeating the same three or four lines and I don't even think he's being dishonest; I think he really just can't get himself out of that box. He can't even register the idea that maybe his God doesn't love everyone, never mind that he doesn't exist.
The caller was giggling, I think he was a troll.
@@QuintarFarenor A troll or high on something. But I bet he sits in church on sunday all dressed up and being oh so nice to everyone while thinking how he can get away with all sorts of 'crimes'
@@QuintarFarenor Or he just giggled nervously. Many people do that to disperse tension, and unfortunately callers like that are very... believable.
Gave me a headache personally.
Host: If I torture my wife because she didn’t choose to make me dinner, does SHE have a choice?
Caller: Yes YOU had a choice and you chose to torture her, so that was your choice.
For every question asked, the caller answer an opposite question. SMH
When you hear the entire backstage crew groaning, then you know that you've hit a jackpot
"I don't wanna go." Love that moment. You could hear the caller's brain almost unlocking before it got slammed shut again.
Caller, please don't ever produce offspring.
"why do you always make me mad?! Why do you make me do this to you!?!?" Hmm, definitely not the logic of an abusive relationship
This, 100%
"I don't want to hit you, you make me hit you"
God apparently according to this caller. Sounds like some loving god. 🤦♂️
@@Syncopation24 "Quit hitting yourself!" The ultimate big brother in the sky.
@@BlueOceanBelow 😂...😂..😂.😂
"You think I like this!?"
Threatening an atheist with ‘hell’ is like telling them they are being sent to Mordor to be tortured by Sauron.
🔥🔱🔥
The "you send yourself to hell" argument is a tool to absolve a believer from guilt.
If the believer sends some one to hell, they will feel guilty for doing so.
If God sends someone to hell, the believer's religion is responsible for damning some one.
If they send themselves to hell, both believer and their religion are blameless.
It teaches the believer to blame the "victim."
It is the classic abuser line: Look what you made me do to you!
God doesn’t send you to Hell, my wife does. She made us spend Thanksgiving with her side of the family this year
I take it you had a terrible Thanksgiving yesterday?
Hope you had a good friendsgiving with the homies at least
Same here
So when I die, your wife is going to drag me to Thanksgiving with her side of the family, too?
Instead of the football game after dinner you should have played The Arheist Experience really loud🔊
I've had people ask me, "why are you an atheist." I thought it was rude of me to answer, "I started thinking for myself". The older I get the more I realize that that is the ONLY answer I have and that it isn't rude. It's the truth.
"I didn't have the nonsense shoved down my throat by my parents, and I don't worship horror or sociopaths."
Lewis Black said something similar in one of his routines.
NEVER accept the question 'why are you an atheist'. You were born with no knowledge of any religion or cult..... so the ONLY valid question is 'why did you start believing in something you can't see or touch?'
I started thinking about the Bible and the god of the Bible critically. 😂 is that like one degree less rude?
@@theunholinesswithin3601Except that the vast majority of us atheists absolutely had the nonsense shoved down our throats by our parents. Most atheists went through deconversion, especially the American atheists.
Forest is so patient and respectful! I’d be honored to spend eternity in God’s great sauna with him (should we be wrong) just to absorb his wealth of knowledge and bask in the radiance of his positive attitude. He is arguably one of the best people on this planet
Loved this video. Years ago, I was riding in the car with my daughter and her then-boyfriend. He was going on about how much he loved her. Then, he said..."I love her so much, that if she ever left me, I might have to kill her." He didn't smile. Thankfully, they broke up without him following through on his threat. This is exactly like God's love...it's not love at all. It's a possessive neurosis. On top of it all, Jesus himself makes it very clear that HE is the one sending people to hell. He will separate the sheep from the goats, He will tell people that didn't know him to depart into eternal damnation. There are several verses like this that Christians who espouse this modern 'You send yourself to hell' notion conveniently forget. My guess is the idea came from the relatively recent encounter with the ideas of Buddhism and Hinduism. In those systems, the person's karma determines whether they go to heaven, hell or another realm. A key difference is, that in those systems...once the karma is played out, the soul is freed from that realm. In this view, heavens and hells, etc. are all temporary and proportional to the crimes or merits. Unlike the Christian idea of eternal torment for finite wrongdoing. Like so many ideas over the centuries, they liked the idea of a soul 'sending itself' to hell or heaven (via karma) and decided to borrow and incorporate it into Christianity. It makes Jesus and Yahweh seem less odious for them.
Of course there is the flip side to ll this...going to heaven, would be equally as tortuous, having to spend eternity worshiping the god thingie with your friends and family, even those you cannot stand....
At one point god loved us so much he drowned us all.
'Love thy neighbors as thyself, just as god so loved the diluvian victims :D!'
This tactic does reveal that the apologists know that hell is a disgusting, immoral concept, but rather than own up to that and reject the religion that endorses it, they double down on being disgusting and immoral by blaming victims.
They want it to exist, or wish it did, so that all who don't agree with them will suffer.
25k views, 1500 comments and only 19 hours ago.
This channel is booming 🥰🙏
The caller’s brain exploded at the end of this call 😂😂😂
That caller is purposely trying not to understand how crazy his beliefs are.
No, he's terrified to death. The mere thought of being able to have a higher morality than that of his god has, paralyzed his brain because just thinking about it could cost him heaven. He made me feel incredibly sad.
One way thiests get around this problem is to state that EVERYONE deserves hell because of inherited sin. The problem with this is that means babies and people who have not heard of Christianity will go to hell. So no choice for them! It doesn't take into account lousy evangelists, either! "Sorry God, I just couldn't believe in you because that guy that tried to convince me seemed so dishonest and shady!
This exact line of logic is why even as a child i couldn't believe in God. They want me to believe God loves me but if someone did things he didn't like he magically didn't love them anymore. That's not how love works. As a child, I knew that. As a child with an abusive alcoholic father. I knew that's not how love worked. If you "loved" us we wouldn't have to be everything you say
No god has ever asked me to do anything.
Yeah, same here.
I guess we're just not deluded or schizophrenic enough.
Precisely, it's always been people claiming to speak for their god(s) who make demands of me
God loves you so much that he sacrificed himself, to himself, to save us from himself.
He committed suicide so that a few of people could worship him forever while the majority of us burn for eternity for calling BS on a poorly written obvious work of fiction
Never gets old. Too bad the people who believe in this nonsense don't get it or don't want to get it.
He couldn't even carry out a sacrifice properly. Came back to life!!
It's difficult to talk someone out of a position using logic when they didn't enter that position using logic in the first place.
The truth in a nutshell.
Not necessarily. There are plenty of former believers who became atheists after using good reasons.
My bad . I see you said " it's difficult", not impossible.
@@alvarogoenaga3965 I noticed too. But those people still end up using some pevel of logic, even if that logic isn't science or evidence based. May just come out of reading the bible itself, like actually reading it, not interpreting it.
A maximally benevolent & powerful being either creating or tolerating a place like Hell is an obvious and glaring contradiction. What religions excel at is teaching believers to resolve it by casting the victims of eternal torture at the hands of such a being as villains, pridefully or petulantly refusing to bend the knee. When you think about it, it’s fucking hideous. This kind of thing is why my parents removed my brothers & I from sunday school when I was 6.
Uh, it is not a choice. Belief is like love. “Love me or else” gives the choice to either tell the truth or to lie. And God knows you’re lying about believing it exists, so pretending to believe doesn’t work
I laughed out loud listening to this. I'm not an atheist but I am an ex Christian so I found this hilarious. Christianity is a fear based, threat based belief system.
They all are.
@@bernierasmusson9257 absolutely
you can hear how the hosts stump him a couple times but every time he flees back to his indoctrination mantra instead of thinking things through and facing reality. I know I wouldnt have the patience to keep trying with people like him
@@bernierasmusson9257 I'm a pagan and I don't believe in a hell. I also use logic and reasoning in my spiritual journey. Will I become an atheist? Only time will tell but I'm certainly enjoying life's journey.
@@fritzhaselnuss7852 yes I know. I will absolutely refuse to repeat myself a third time or answer the same question multiple times by the same person.
That kind of emotional brainwashing is very strong in this caller. When you hear preachers talk about the armor of faith. The caller was displaying exactly what he was trained to. When somebody pokes a hole in your faith. Block it out of your mind and repeat the mantra.
I used to do this when I was a christian
Soooo Narnia? The lion the witch and the Skeptics non believers ⚔️ religious believers.
That was honestly one of the most terrifying calls I’ve heard in years of listening to this channel.
It’s fun to see the blunt mind of a questioner clash with the sharp mind of Forrest Valkai.
And after the clash the blunt mind refuses to see the bleeding cut inflicted on him.
I like the question someone said they put to theists who try and make this point.
'If you die and find out the deity you have been worshiping isn't the one running the show and that deity that is sends you to hell for not worshiping the correct deity would you deserve it?'
By their metric they chose to go to hell by choosing the wrong deity.
It's basically the Pascal's wager situation and how the Simpsons brought up a problem with it, as I recall
Yup, it was simple enough for Homer Simpson to see.
Nah, they'll just argue "the bible said god is real, so he is".
(1)
They will purposely deflect.
(2)
They'll either answer with a question that irrelevant
(3)
They'll answer that GOD is the only god, & that they are worshipping GOD.
They can't stand to be shown the truth.
& they can't stand to lose an argument.
So they purposely drag the conversation around in circles until you're like "Fuck it, & fuck you!" & you refuse to continue with them.
I personal fav is when they claim GOD can do anything.
Me:
"So GOD can make 2 plus 2 equal a Leprechaun, then?"
@@adamrspears1981 I wondered why my calculator was leaking small, green people with Irish accents....
This is the equivalent of making a time bomb strapping someone to that bomb, demanding they worship you, and if they call you out for being a homicidal madman, you retorting with "I am not blowing you up with a time bomb. You are blowing yourself up with a time bomb by not accepting me as your savior from MY time bomb."
roflmao this is a hilarious and perfect example since it incorporates time
To think I used to believe "We send ourselves to Hell" cliche for years.....
If God created Hell in the first place, then He is ultimately sending us there......
Stalin/Hitler didn't sent people to gulags/camps. People sent themselves for not accepting Stalin/Hitler as their lord and savior.
This is the best analogy I’ve heard 👏
@@peterdembowy4459 Thanks, but TBH it isn't mine. I read it somewhere in the Internet
This guy can't follow a logical argument.
Or, I should say, as soon as the argument leads to the inescapable conclusion that it's his imaginary god creature that sends people to hell, his mind just hits a divide by zero error and just resets to "god loves you so it's your fault for going to hell".
Your brain on religion. Kids; Just say no!
Can't go to a place that doesn't exist. No heaven, no hell, no gods no worry.
This was like a toddler reading "Parakeet" out letter by letter, then saying "Penguin" is the word they just spelled.
He just. Didn't. Get it. Even with it spelled out in front of him.
This is the most honest Christian I’ve heard in a long time. Horrible deluded person but honest.
We're all going to hell, in somebody's religion.
~Jim Barrows
My only experience is that of theists bringing hell to me, when I'm just sitting, minding my own business...
They desperately want total control.
Here is Eric's 'argument' ..
"Hey man, I don't make the rules. Better safe than sorry. I'm not allowed to question it or else I'll be punished."
Then aren't we all a innocent better Jesus than yahweh will ever be of such a LORD megatron ? Isn't hell a real sacrifice cross to be on by creator almighty for gawds wickedness?
@@mistylover7398 is that the truth or a lie🤔??
@@claudiasolomon1123 if 💩 falls in candy land on 🪐 did it ever haz a🍌?
@@mistylover7398 you know I didn't come here on a load of turnips, I know that. Quit being mad at me, & just love me again. I didn't DO anything WRONG😭
@@claudiasolomon1123 ?????
I don’t mind if I go to hell because my dad was shop steward of the stokers union, he’s down there now handing out pitchforks, I’m hoping to get the job of sharpening them 😂
it’s like the caller gets a dollar every time he says choice when it doesn’t make sense
Oh man, the patience y'all had with this caller, incredible...
"God already knows what's gonna happen cause we have free will" 🤔
Um...wut?!?
It’s not a choice, it’s a dilemma, which is a forced decision between two bad options.
I am a former Christian, and listening to people argue their faith makes me realize how indoctrinated and lost I was. I am ashamed by some of the things I said to other people, but when you know better, you do better.
those people probably understood you weren't thinking for yourself.... glad you have "seen the light". welcome to the world of reality and logic 😊
You can hear his *_Indoctri-brain 2000™_** rebooting,* over and over and over. Not a very stable operating system!
Proxy Error
The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
The proxy server could not handle the request
Reason: Error reading from remote server
excellent comment
It's a choice. It's a choice. It's a choice. Error. Error. Shutting down. Rebooting...
It's a choice.
I love the pregnant pauses after a zinger of a question is asked. of a caller. Best thing about watching these shows. And every time- no coherent answer follows. Just funny as hell. No pun intended.
I've been waiting for years for the producers to implement a change. I want the hosts to have a button which, when pressed, switches the audience view to a bird's eye vantage of the caller....as they are doused in gasoline and set alight. I think that would drive the ratings through the roof.....and *THAT* would be the best thing about watching these shows. As it is, I'm holding on to hope for the future, lol
The CEO of reality is never accountable for anything and he always blames the frontline worker's for the failing of his organisation.
Any one or thing that demands worship doesn't deserve it.
Like how the mafia goes "Hey i don't wanna hurt you, but if you don't do x, well its your choice..."
"Nice soul you got there..... be a shame if something happened to it!"
@@holgerlubotzki3469 lol!
Eric's never had to think these things through rationally. Logic clearly is not something he's been exposed to and critical thinking is not a skill he's even got a passing idea about.
I think he just has had “god loves you” pounded into his head so deep he cannot move it. It is an absolute fact for him.
Now, as to the difference between an electric monk and a VCR …
That's exactly what religion does
It’s not my choice to go to hell because i literally don’t have the directions
In the immortal words of Rush, if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
Thief: "your money or your life."
Christian: "that's wrong! Police! Help!"
God: "love me or suffer forever in Hell"
Christian: "holy holy holy! Lord God almighty! All your works shall praise your name in earth, and sky and sea!"
this guy was a perfect example of denial in face of evidence
doesn't make him bad or something, actually means that he started thinking and you could hear a battle going around in his head
It’s fear. I think this caller knows what the argument is, and knows there’s nothing bad enough someone you love could do to torture them forever. But if he admits it with his mouth, he fears what his god would do to him. He’s unnerved that he’s even had the thought.
Some get angry, some get belligerent, and some go in loops. But they all would fear admitting their own morality is better than their god’s.
"doesn't make him bad or something"
It very much does. He thinks we DESERVE eternal conscious torture. IDC how friendly these people are, everyone who thinks along those lines is a monster.
phenomenal interview. thanks for doing this.
The silence at 11:19 is the most beautiful part of this call. In those moments, you can *hear* the caller's preconceptions crashing against the logic, the morality, they're being presented with, and see the contradiction with what they believe to be right versus what they *know* to be right.
Moments like this, where Forrest is able to make the caller question themselves and think, even for just a few seconds, that they might not have all the answers after all, are how you change minds for the better.
First rule of all religions: Don't ask logical questions, and if you do you are going to hell!
Question has been asked'what God was doing before create the cosmos and has been answered:he was preparing hell for people asking that kind questions......
Not applicable to *all* religions though, if we're being pedantic :D
Stalin never sent anyone to gulags, they sent them selves.
The OT is
1. Love/obey Me.
2. You did it wrong. Smash.
3. Repeat.
Which is consistent w hosts' view here and inconsistent w caller's.
You can literally feel his brain fighting with his programming. Fascinating.
It is isn’t it? The human psyche is amazing. Poor guy.
* Spock raises his eyebrow
Poor guy is a couple of fries short of a happy meal 😂
A couple of fries short? All that's in his happy meal is one bun lol.
I think it's an indoctrinated teen.. He's learning, he just picked the wrong choice or had a mean friend.
The only thing on his plate is one ketchup packet. You're giving him TOO much credit.
@@satsunada Wise and probably true
@@Jacob-ed1bl lol 😆
Belief is not a choice. No one can choose to believe in something.
"Believe what I believe or suffer" is not a choice, that's an ultimatum.
Even if belief was a choice, I do not choose the consequences of my actions. A child can break a lamp, by choice, that doesn't mean he chooses to be spanked, grounded, or have parents that are too lenient to care.
@@cajunking5987 I hear this argument so many times. I had a full on discussion with a Christian, and I had to explain that it's kind of like a judge in a court room. The criminal decides his crime, he doesn't decide his punishment.
I also bring up the fact that I don't know what the punishment is, because I don't believe in his, or any other religion. If you choose not to die in battle, then you're choosing to go to helheim, as described in Norse mythology. Oh you don't believe in Norse mythology and have no reason to abide by their laws, you're in the same boat I am.
You need to stop using generalities.
Belief is a choice. People make that choice everyday. That's why we still have religion: people are choosing to belief in imaginary entities and ignore reality.
That is a choice.
You second sentence is correct, though it does not mean all belief is not a choice.
Sometimes you do chose the consequences of your actions. I chose to go to work, I got paid, I chose the method of how to be paid.
I chose not to go to work, I got fired. Unless you're going full semantic annoyance, I chose the consequence of being fired by choosing not to go.
Stop using generalities. You're undermining your own point as you're trying to make it.
And maybe work on expanding your worldview some. Other people exist.
@@CollinGerberding first, choose to believe in unicorns, truly, deeply, with all your mind. Honestly tell me unicorns exist. Don't worry, you won't.
You must have missed the conversation with the other guy in this thread. Because my second point was that I don't know what punishment lies after death, or if there is any. And I don't choose not to believe there isn't one, because no one has provided me with a reason to believe that their version of hell exists.
Lastly, I said even if belief was a choice, I do not choose the consequences of my actions.
My point still stands.
@revilo178 no no, I appreciate the correction. I'll have to look this guy up then.
The arguments and examples you guys were give were great. How this guy wasn’t getting it or avoiding your arguments was baffling and hilarious 😂
I am so glad you guys have the patience to explain these things, i would have to walk away because obviously he ia doing mental gymnastica to not see whats in front of his face. So frustrating hearing him doing it.
I was trying to work out the exact moment Eric's brain broke! 😂
Please don't waste your time; his brain was broken to begin with, and he's determined to keep it that way.
Before he called in
It was when he was indoctrinated as a child.
I heard the "crack" when he realized he was better than god.
Spelt it out for him several times and he still didn’t understand it 🤦🏻♂️
He does. He's being intellectually dishonest.
When the whole studio bursts into laughter at the idiocy they'd just heard. Priceless
Very sad to see Matt dillahunty leave the show but Forest is a fresh and welcome new addition. Been watching his content since before he came on The atheist experience. Keep up the good work guys
If that is the case, then I choose to skip hell all together, as it seems like a waste of ones time.
Matt brought up that God's situation with salvation like a mafia protection racket: pay us the money and we won't break your legs, effectively
Thank you for these great argument examples.
He's cocooned his deity in a logic proof bubble. He can apply logic to everything else, but when it comes to that deity..
Richard Dawkins was asked how to debate religious friends. He said you could talk forever to some people who will not change their mind no matter what you say. He gave an example of a scientific friend who said that even if all the evidence disproved his religious views, he would recognise it but would still believe the Scriptures. Dawkins said you can’t argue with a mind like that. Enter this caller.
That quote is attributed to the American geophysicist Kurt Wise.
@@starfishsystems Yeah that’s the guy, I couldn’t remember his name.
@@starfishsystems Are there atheists who will change their minds lol.
Dawkins has also stated that you should not debate idiots as is looks bad on your resume.
@@gazzman4264 The problem I have with that is that you can’t debate any theist, or you’re doing what Dawkins says not to do.😹
It's incredible that there are people that still think like this.
Unfcknbelievable
Never ceases to amaze me the sheer psychological effects of religion on human thought processes. Unbelievable