God Does Not Intervene Because He Is Patient?
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- čas přidán 27. 10. 2023
- Analyzing God's lack of action when it comes to tragedy
This clip is from The Atheist Experience, Episode 27.42 for October 22, 2023 with Mike and Forrest Valkai!
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Caller: You can't blame someone else for another person's actions.
Also caller: Humans are all deserving of punishment because of Adam's actions.
It's too bad they didn't bring that up. I would have loved hearing his excuses.
Somehow they don't think that through completely, don’t they?
@@SpiderantulaJMike alluded to it when he said the call could do with a contradiction counter but I agree, it should have been better addressed.
Caller: "you can't blame someone else for another person's actions"
Also caller: "pediatric c***er is a thing because people sin and must repent"
I love the "you can't blame someone for someone else's actions" thing... like if they *made* you knowing you would do them? Yeah, yeah, you can.
Best end statement for a show:
"Fuck Him and his Patience, have agreat day"
I lost my brother 7 years ago. He was diagnosed with 4th stage lung cancer. I remember the saleswoman, when we were in one store for medical devices commenting about his condition
-Mmm you are about to die. You must have done something teribly wrong to God.
No empathy no nothing....
This complete call reminded me of the situation.
These kind of people make me puke.
I am so sorry for your loss, what that woman said was absolutely disgusting! I don't typically like to presume whether or not someone else is a Christian but if I was to in this case I would say that she's not one. As a Christian it makes me angry when people say things like that, it doesn't even make any sense (not for the same reason it doesn't make sense to you 😉) everyone dies at some point so to make that comment at a time like that was just cruel.
The day somebody of religion said that my sister was born with a disability because of the wil of god.
I knew relogion was one big ffing lie.
And till this day, nobody has proven me otherwise
Religion is a mental sickness and should be banned from this planet.
@@smsquared73
Religion is poison.
Nothing good ever came from religion. Only death, hate, punishment and war, a lot of war with a lot of suffering for innocent people.
@@smsquared73 not to mention that 5 month old babies get cancer too, wonder what they did?
I had a similar experience. I almost died from intestinal adhesions when I was 17 and my friend's dad who was a pastor came into the hospital while I was lying there with tubes coming out of my throat and nose unable to even walk and said it was my fault for unconfessed sin
Good example of how religion completely poisons and distorts one's thought process.
Religion is like a fog.... you dont have a clear picture, its dangerous and you have no clue what is all out there...
Religion tries to put a stop to any “thought processes”.🤤
@@DaisyDuck-ib4ks what is so funny?
Yes exactly. 😊
@@mateolives1the original post that started this tread
God is so patient, he's been MIA for over 2000 years.
I’m sure he’ll be back with the milk soon though…
Why milk?@@orangutantapioca1530
He just stepped out for cigarettes?...
He's scared of iron things.
@@lucifers.morningstar3805 lol you may be onto something, but thinking bronze things, then sent his son on a failed mission who foolishly got himself killed, then they tried to pass it off as some planned sacrifice.
"It's better for no one to get raped, *_BUT..."_*
The things religion makes people say
Any time you have to add an extension to objectively monstrous actions, you may want to rethink your thought process
I'm not racist BUT ......
@@FelixBatI'm not racist, but chocolate cake is delicious.
Same with protesters being seen now, some will say “the terrorist acts are wrong BUT….” and what’s scary is some will defend the terror that was done in the name of their god.
"bombing hospitals is wrong but..."
" Yeah sure, Palestinian kids shouldn't have to pay for the mistakes of adults but..."
There is no excuse for the actions of both sides! If they, and the rest of the world wanted to, this could end very easily but...
Why so much hatred on both sides?!
Both sides are killing innocent people Palestinians and Israelis!
"You can't punish me for something you did and vice versa."
(10 mins later)
"Kids get cancer because of inherited sin"
Contradiction counter is a necessity
This reminds me of the story of David, David list after some dudes wife after he spied on her bathing. The husband was off at war so David slept with her and then got her pregnant. So that the 2 of them wouldn't be caught David has her husband come back from so that he could make the girl sleep with husband inorder to trick him into thinking the child was his. Unfortunately for David the dude gets drunk and passes out, never having slept with his wife . So David then sends the man to the Frontlines were the battle is most deadly so that he may be slain in combat so that David can marry her and try to trick his kingdom into believing the kid was conceived after thier marriage. David's plan almost works like a charm accept that God was watching the whole time , so God physically comes down to punish David on the day that his new wife gives birth. Because God is so righteous and just , he punishes David and his wife by killing their new born son. But of course, just killing their baby out right wouldn't be punishment enough. That would be letting them get off to easy. God wants to make sure that this baby suffers so that David and all of man kind will know God's wrath and fear him. So Yahweh then decides he can inflict the most excruciating pain possible by infecting their baby with a deadly virus. This poor infants exacution lasted for up to a week before his sad little innocent heart gave out. What a mighty and loving God we severe 😅. I guess that baby just had it ah comin 😂
Original Sin is an insanely monstrous concept.
If I was an abuser, I’d make up a story about a divine being who will *always* be right for punishing you however he saw fit, because you had somehow inherited sin. I’d then present that story to whoever my victim is, ideally someone I already have power over, and make it my mission to convince them it’s true. And severely punish any hint of doubt.
Yeah and it's also dumb as sh*t, since it blames Eve and Adam for picking evil when they literally did not know the difference between good and evil.
It's like hiring a blind person to paint your house and then complaining about the color they picked
I love it when Forrest calls God a monster. He is spot on with that one.
Not even close. Does God have the authority to play God? Then all you lost people can STOP with the "God is immoral" garbage for God taking life WHEN HE ALONE gave it in the first place. Does God owe you a certain amount of time on earth? Nope. Either God exists and you need to shut your mouth about him OR God doesn't exist and you have no rational or even possible explanation for what exists. God is the standard of good, so when he takes me out of this location through physical death and places me in the next location, it will be the right time to do so.
Don't be silly. Forrest has ZERO ANSWERS. The asinine, lost & clueless cult of atheism is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS and yet it's lost & clueless NO ANSWER followers cling desperately to that garbage.
@@neverendingparty4832don't speak back to your betters until you've figured out how to make a valid point like an adult, little brain dead cultist.
It's just a shame that we can't lock you kiddie fiddling cultists away.
As the mythological creature in those myths, yes. As an entity that exists and manifests in reality, no.
@@michaelmay5453 He is real only in the reality of their mind.
@michaelmay5453 there's no god so of course it's a myth ffs lol.😊
God doesn't want morality. Only obedience.
And left terrible stories that can be interpreted multiple ways a guide for that obedience.
So god is.....orange jesus?
@@ghytd766ah yes, the second cuming of jeebus. But isn’t cuming a sin? Damn.
@@GodcodeX77 He knew they would doom humanity before he created them, he had all the power in the universe AND BEYOND to make a universe where free will did not necessitate evil, and yet he still created them, placing a temptation in front of them when he knew it would lead to their downfall... How is this not his fault? And no, "Satan was the one to tempt them" doesn't work because who created Satan? You cannot say "the guy who created everything and knew the exact consequences down to the individual quarks of the entire universe, yeah evil isn't his fault" because he was the one to create EVERYTHING, thus he created evil, or allowed it to be, which goes against the "caring god" bit.
The bible would make a lot more sense if it just out and said your God was a lying, narsactic doushbag. If it said that, a lot of the inconsistencies in the bible would be easily explained.
@@GodcodeX77Because he let them, and he set up the situation for these outcomes he knew would happen. He set the stage for them to disobey him knowing 100% that they'd do so when he could've easily just like not
As a POC woman who has be sexually abused I really appreciate yalls reaction to him giving his “third option”. Like someone “repenting” is at all equivalent to not fkn SAing them. I really appreciate you shutting that shift down.
"a POC woman who has be sexually abused" ...What?
"fkn SAing" fucking sexually abusing
What does your skin color have to do with any of this?
@@RonDaSantis username checks out
What type of parent would leave two people, with no knowledge of good or evil , in a room with a loaded and cocked gun , show it to them and tell them not to touch and then leaves the room but also leaves behind a scoundrel to mislead them to use the gun , and the whole time that person knows the outcome already .
Knowing the outcome is irrelevant. God finished creation before he started it. He already knows ALL FREE WILL ACTS because God created/designed "time" and can step into any moment of time at will. And if you're "timeless," do you have a beginning or end? No.
@@owersmenblortsmon4731 So your god is a POS , got it .
@3 It does not matter, questioning the wisdom or logic by an all knowing being still stands.
@@owersmenblortsmon4731So much time and your god still made a very stupid decision, any parent in today's society would be imprisoned for this.
@Nour083 Wrong. The facts of Adam & Eve are literal facts. If an explanation can be taken literally, then it's to be taken literally.
God didn't prevent evil because he is patient.
Imagine an ambulance driver who was so patient he always arrives after the patient is dead.
That's the kind of patience we don't need.
And while god is waiting patiently in the background and and ambulance driver saves someone's life's then some people thank god....... 🙄
thats a great idea, imagine how much money would be saved on all those medical supplies
@@Shaz-gq7pvThat is what drives me crazy! When people thank “God” that someone had a successful surgery. I tell them that the thanks should go to the Medical staff, and the Religious person’s response is “God is the only one that can give them the ability to perform the surgery.”🙄
Ah yes, but God can raise the dead.
He acts as if god always always evil to get it's way, bc free will.
Except he doesn't. He blocks will constantly throughout the ot
God does not intervene because he is fictional.
The greatest and simplest argument XD
Any possibility god doesn’t intervene because they’re a sociopath?
@@waynedextermaybe he's just a little shy. Or maybe he's utterly embarassed by his followers
Yup, I think this should have been presented to James, he probably left the call thinking Jmike and Forrest hate God rather than seeing that it is more likely he doesn't exist.
I love JMike's analogy about how it's like throwing a hand grenade just so someone can be a hero by falling on it. That is a pretty clear illustration of the folly being peddled.
Thank you Forrest for calling that caller out for the BS he was spewing.
Religion can make people try to justify the most abhorrent atrocities imaginable.
Little reminder that Hitler had the blessing of the Catholic Church and that the Mormon church purposely baptized Hitler so he could enjoy heaven. Evil in this life is only a problem if you think this life is all we get. Those who think this is just the tryouts for the heaven club are willing to ignore anything if it means they get to build the bigger clubhouse.
Atheism is a religion too. Guess it doesn’t count though.
@@CrownofJesus109I'll bet you didn't have to move your head out of the way to pull that stupid little comment out of your butt.
@@KentuckyBrad if he hated it so much, why did he mention it positively in so many speeches? Why did he have “God with us” on the belt buckles? Why is the main symbol of the entire regime the Hooked Cross (Hakkencruz, not the swastika, that was a way for western Christian’s to distance themselves from Hitler)
@@KentuckyBradThere’s Christian sects that say you can’t get into heaven and be “truly saved” without being baptized. They’ve got the same source and “evidence” other sects have.
Hitler loved the authority, and the fact that he could use it commit acts of pure evil. He even made “God with us” one of his slogans. His followers all loved Christianity and church was mandatory. His main issue with it is it wasn’t extreme enough in some cases and he wanted to change doctrine to reflect that. Hitlers modern, American followers all claim to be Christians.
I could argue a lot of other Christians “hate” the Bible. For instance the people who’ve come to see Jesus’ saying you should “invite the poor, sick, and the infirm into your home” and “if someone asks you for jacket give them your coat as well” and his “turn the other cheek” as too woke.
All Christians ignore when Jesus says “sell your possessions and give the money to the poor, take up a cross and follow me” for being communist. Along with many other things.
I used to be a Jehovah’s Witness and they constantly use this excuse of “patience”. It’s disgusting and I hate it.
Could be worse, you could be one of the children that were told by the elders to forgive your rapist of face excommunication and have a family that would literally abandon you over it.
Ex witness here too
All ex Jehovah’s witnesses are heroes. That’s a big accomplishment to escape indoctrination.
@@kwestluv23 I'm glad you got out and I hope you didn't lose everyone. Some do, even their family.
Well done guys 😎
People who believe they were born out of sin and corruption tend to be exactly what they think they are.
That part at 27:30 really threw me for a loop. Like, how is someone asking for forgiveness for their heinous actions at all going to do anything for the people they've hurt?
God when Lot's wife looks back at her home being destroyed: 😡😡😡😡😡
God during all the wars and genocides throughout history: 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
Slavery, g'(r@pes), abuse, murder
God:🍿
Nobody gets turned to salt anymore! God used to be so metal and now he's making us kill eachother instead of doing it himself, lazy bastard 😤
And what could a two-year-old toddler ever have done wrong? Pooped in his diaper
Lot is the only person in Sodom ( or was it Gomorrha?) of whom God approves, but he's willing to give his virgin daughters to the buggering mob outside rather than his male guests, presumably from God. Subsequently, they get him drunk so he'll get them pregnant!
@@isveryniceyeslmao right? At least back in the day he was flooding shit and sending plagues and making sure everybody knew he was a murderer. Now? When whole swathes of people die, he can't even send a messenger to know it was him? 🙄😤
Forrest was absolutely right in everything he told the caller and he was also right to be angry about it.
Not even close. Forrest has ZERO ANSWERS. The asinine, lost & clueless cult of atheism is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS and yet it's lost & clueless NO ANSWER followers cling desperately to that garbage.
JESUS is our example; nobody else.
I think Jmike spoke for everyone here when he said "I like spicy Forrest"
He’s not angry at the fictional decisions made by a fictional entity
I was forced into a christian high school by my mother. And I remember in 9th grade health my health teacher showed us an anti-abortion video of people regretting their abortions, having depressive break downs, and lamenting about the pain and blood. And then asked us if we had any questions. And I remember I asked her “what if a child is pregnant by their father or had been taken advantage of.” And I’ll never forget her smile and her eyes that had no remorse when she said. “Ya know we live in a terrible world sometimes but god will make a way for her someday.”
I think that was when I started questioning the Christian faith and the people who push their harmful ideologies on the world.
Lmao! 😂
Forrest's annoyed "sowwy" made my day.
I don't think I've ever seen Forrest this mad. Completely justified too! Caller is just regurgitating the same rhetorical sleights of hand and abusive rhetoric that we've all heard a million times, to justify an essentially all-powerful god allowing the most pointlessly evil shit in the world. And he kept on regurgitating it over and over and over... Forrest's patience was godlike in this.
Trying to reconcile a world that is shitty with an all loving and powerful god is the tiresome chore of the apologist. He's been taught to believe that his faith in god is more important than "lowly" human reason and logic, and so for him, the caller, there is no contradiction. On the one hand, he believes there is the will of god, and on the other, a hopelessly human mind which cannot fathom god's calculus. This is WHY religion operates as it does: beating its messages into the minds of its followers week in, week out, since the time they're children (when even Santa was legitimately plausible). Then they remain in the same echo chambers where people repeat the same bullshit to each other constantly. The process of religious indoctrination didn't happen by accident: they observed what worked and codified it.
That's the difference of being actually patient instead of being lazy and not giving a s*** like God apparently is
"patience is godlike" hahaaha the irony there xD
When you keep asking someone for arguments multiple times, and all you get is logical inconsistencies mixed with preaching, even someone as joyful and patient and Forrest eventually snaps, and he has all the rights.
I saw this live and was in chat. Chat LOVED seeing Forrest lose his shit! 😂
James got on my nerves very quickly by confidently making mutually exclusive statements.
- "Humans don't have free will to choose good."
- "Doing evil is not determined."
And it kept happening.
"Why should your immorality go unpunished?"
"God forgives us if we repent."
"You can't blame someone for other people's actions."
"Adam and Eve sinned and because of that we're all sentenced to death."
It just goes on and on and on.
Yea it drove me nuts, absolutely heinous epistemology
Arrogance and ignorance is an insufferable combination.
James may not have the cognitive ability to realize the absurdity of his beliefs, but many listeners do! And some of them JUST came to the conclusion that their beliefs were asinine and there is no going back! Thank you Forrest and JMike! Your work is appreciated.
Why is that appreciated? What difference does it make to you? It's one thing to disagree with someone's belief in God or even make fun of it as so many of you seem to enjoy doing but to find joy in destroying someone else's faith? Sound's borderline narcissistic, you should look into that. I'm gonna say a prayer for you and whoever might have been listening to this and started questioning their faith.
@smsquared73 trust me this belief and the Christian fundamentalist ideology is dangerous and harmful. Honestly it's most harmful to its members. It's good if people lose their faith. God is am evil murderous pathetic father if he's real there's no reason to give him any attention.
But you would rejoice is someone's unbelief was destroyed, would you not...?@@smsquared73
@@smsquared73it’s justified because people use their religious beliefs to justify an endless list of harmful things against others. the abrahamic religious beliefs are a detriment to society, they justify horrors beyond anything that a sane person today would deem acceptable. the bible justifies the murder of women, new born babies, it justifies not only owning slaves but instructs you on how to appropriately beat your slaves, it gives guidance on selling your daughter’s virginity. when people completely forfeit their use of critical thinking to believe that any of the instructions of the bible are appropriate to be acted upon, it prevents us as a society from moving forward with developing our ethics and morality past what it was 2,000 years ago when people wrote the bible. there are so many ways to prove the bible wrong that there is no way someone can take you seriously if you say that the bible has 0% fiction in it, so to just be okay with people continuing to ignore the reality of how the universe works and the reality that we are obligated to continue to develop our moral code as a species is to give up on making any progress closer to ending the level of war and destruction and suffering in the world that is inflicted in the name of religion. christianity/religion ABSOLUTELY IS NOT necessary to have good morals. having EMPATHY is required to have good morals. atheists still have the capacity to understand that if they do certain things that it will hurt someone else, and that is bad because they themselves don’t like to be hurt, so they in turn don’t want that for other people. it’s so incredibly simple and does not require religion in the slightest. so no, just because some people find religion to be comforting does not mean that they have the right to cling to it to the detriment of the people around them. i’m sure there were plenty of white folks that found segregation comforting, it was still detrimental to others so it needed to be systemically addressed and people needed to be made to realize how messed up their worldview was.
@@smsquared73it's always a good thing to question your faith, and if you come to your senses and understand the deep evil of your religion and your faith, it's just a good thing happening. All faith MUST be destroyed, because when you stop believing you start using your brain
I honestly want to give this one a standing ovation. Forrest mad props bro!
God is so patient he’s borderline bone idle.
Non-existent?
God is so patient, he became nonexistent
God: 🗿
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Well, it’s rather obvious why “god” doesn’t intervene, how can a fictional character do anything?
FACTS!!
God is real. "you" are the fictional character.
@@BobbyFristonNot sure if you're serious OR trolling, either way, f*cking HILARIOUS🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@BobbyFriston
Well Bobby, that’s an interesting claim. I am replying to your rather juvenile response, therefore, what is your evidence that I am fictional?Furthermore, what is your evidence that “god” is real?
@@thomaswigfield7623 For Mickey Mouse to move around in a cartoon it takes about 24 still drawings per second. If you visit Disneyland Mickey Mouse has a frozen head. You yourself are just made up of continous dead thoughts that give you a feeling of separation, volition and continuity.
God shines through when you stop fooling yourself.
The role of god in human suffering is either
A: He is unaware of it
B: He is aware but is unable to help
C: He is aware but is unwilling to help
D: he is the cause of the suffering
so what is it?
"Why should you get away with your immorality?"
He says, minutes after saying that God is being patient and giving you a way out through forgiveness. So which is it? Do people get away with their immorality or do they get a way out? You can't have it both ways.
The worst excuse I've ever heard fron a Christian.
I just want to say THANK YOU.
15 years ago, when I thought I was "the only one", I found you. You made me see I was not alone in embracing reality
Be careful. God is the only reality. EVERYTHING in this world was produced by God either directly or indirectly.
@@neverendingparty4832 I'm not scared anymore 😇
@@neverendingparty4832 Got any evidence to back up that empty claim there?
@@neverendingparty4832 can you seriously just STOP? this is actually hilarious
so you agree and admit that god created weapons for mass destruction? bone cancer in children? malaria? HIV? adhd? autism? schizophrenia? depression? miscarriages? “his” children being born without legs and arms?
2 mins into the call and the lack of LOGIC of the caller is fucking mindblowing
12:16 "He's offering you a way you can walk, and not be a paraplegic."
This guy thought he had something there but now he's just reframed 'God' as a guy who breaks people's legs to turn around and sell them leg-healing balm...
Holy shit, dude.
Love is patient and love is kind, but love is also not letting someone suffer unnecessarily.
Anyone who claimed that the person who loved them most not only allowed them to suffer but actually planned all of their suffering would be encouraged to escape that person. How are we supposed to worship a god who has lower moral standards than ourselves? If he ever proves his existence, the chances of me ‘joining his flock’ would go lower than they currently are. He’s a sociopath.
Or eternally!...
Never mind how God violated people's "free will" all the time in the bible.
We have free will to accept or deny Jesus. You do NOT have free will over God's perfect will; his plan & goal for his creation. If you're talking about Pharaoh, God only amplified the evil already in his heart. Try to learn.
The free will that we have after evil was brought upon this world by gods actions, all because some guy ate an apple thousands of years ago. You’re fragile pathetic god is to blame for setting everyone up for failure, and then blames them for their decision he knew they would make. No matter how you’d like to blame humans. God created the torture chamber and forces babies there. Seriously this is not even opinion. This is just how yours and most theists logic works. Try and use your intuition instead of making excuses for emotional, manipulative psychos.
@@neverendingparty1534 That's still fucked. The fact that some people choose jesus and some don't while both are part of god's "perfect plan" implies that there was never a choice to be made. god could just as easily only make people who accept jesus. Instead he makes people knowing they will suffer in hell for eternity.
@@neverendingparty1534Nonsense. The bible does not say that at all and simply says God hardened his heart. If God had the power to harden it, he also had the power to soften it, which is what he should have done instead of continuing unnecessary suffering. The Exodus story is a damning example of why God is a horrible character.
@@elem-sike4161 Wrong. We certainly do have free will. Foreknowledge ≠ foredetermination. GOD DOESN’T MAKE YOUR DECISIONS! God said he wanted everybody saved (John 3:16), so why aren’t we all saved, being that we don’t have free will? Just because God KNOWS it, doesn’t mean he’s making it happen. YOU are making it happen.
Like it or not, G0D’s foreknowledge does not cause what we do. Nothing about foreknowledge impacts free will. You didn’t chose it because of what G0D knows. You will not be allowed on Judgement Day to stand in front of Jesus while judged on the content of the Bible & be able to have the excuse, “I can’t be found guilty, because I never had free will to make my free will choices!”
I love everything Forrest in, the best anger bursts while still being the intellectual put down kingpin that he is 😂
I love how Forrest, even when angry can still come off as so nice.
Mother Theresa was also a moral monster ... she believed suffering was a good thing and the people under her charge suffered
Except Mother Teresa is not our example; Christ is our example.
@@neverendingparty4832Yet your Christ couldn’t be bothered to say a single word against chattel slavery, one of Mankind’s greatest and most persistent evils.
@@neverendingparty4832 Shite example then.
@@neverendingparty4832 she was used as an "Example to us all" ... so why canonise her as a saint?
@@neverendingparty4832 Did Jesus ever lie about a prophecy? Or was that you who lied? Wait, you said you're never wrong, so that means it was Jesus who lied!
Try to learn, Jimmy. I'm here to help you.
I've never seen Forrest go this hard before
Oh, he’s a sight to behold when he builds up a head of steam, and this particular subject is his exact pet peeve.
Forrest is on a run!
Perfectly justified considering
Forrest has been saying what I have been trying to get my family to understand and idk if they simply cannot or won’t.
I love how eloquently mad Forrest can get. This guy might be the best host AXP has ever had. Also, James was a c*nt.
Totally agree.
Yup
this confused theist says one minute that our choices are not predetermined, and two minutes later says that god predestined us to sin. This guy has maxed out his cognitive dissonance level 😂 It must be difficult to keep it all straight.
"I can't blame you for something I did and you can't blame me for something you did" - actually if I created you, and I made you to be a sinner, you can blame me because I am responsible for you. It's very easy.
Yeah, half of me thinks he called into the show hoping he can work out what he believes lol if he can "win" an argument against the hosts, it'll somehow make his complete mental disarray of cog dis justified!
He also contradictions himself on every last one of our trespasses needing to be punished but God gives us a way out of punishment through repentance and forgiveness.
@@Krikenemp18I guess according to Christianity we need to be forgiven for what god did to us. The tricky part is that god keeps doing it, so we never stay forgiven . . . not even with Jesus's "sacrifice".
i just wanted to say that i’m so happy to have found the atheist community❤️i was so miserable after finally accepting that everything i once believed was a lie. i feel so accepted here, for who i am and not for how much i obey god or how little i ask logical questions. i love you all❤️❤️
"Logic?" Says the lost and clueless atheist fool that thinks star dust, moist rocks and mud puddles have the INTELLIGENCE, POWER, PURPOSE, RESOURCES AND MEANS to create/design LIFE, INTELLIGENCE, LOVE, CONSCIOUSNESS, MORALITY, the human being and ALL the co-existent bodily systems (circulatory, respiratory, reproductive, pulmonic, digestive, skeletal, muscular, nervous, body (skin), etc., etc.) intertwined in co-dependent order in the human body :) Atheism is pure idiocy.
The religious cult of atheism is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. That's because atheism RUNS from "reality." I would add that as an atheist, you're bankrupt of RATIONAL/POSSIBLE causes for life, intelligence, consciousness, morality and ALL the co-existent bodily systems (circulatory, respiratory, reproductive, pulmonic, digestive, skeletal, muscular, nervous, body (skin), etc., etc.) intertwined in co-dependent order in the human body.
Atheism has no RATIONAL/POSSIBLE, step by step atheist explanation for reality. That’s because there isn’t one. THINK ABOUT what you’re getting into w/ the cult of atheism. GET OUT NOW. I’ll help you find truth. Atheism has none.
Forrest has ZERO ANSWERS. The asinine, lost & clueless cult of atheism is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS and yet it's lost & clueless NO ANSWER followers cling desperately to that garbage.
And we all love and appreciate you.
As Forrest says "Never stop learning."
Hopefully you were given snacks and refreshments on the way in.
@@alkristopherWish I could. That’s for sure.
The atheist 'community' is certainly very diverse and most of us don't agree on other issues but I'd say the majority of us, want to be kind to others (humans and animals plus environment). I hope you live a happy and fulfilling life ❤
Holy fecking shyte balls, Forrest!!!! You're an effing savage hero! I love, love, LOVE what you said. I grew up in the Mormon Church and was a fundamental pentecostal "ex-gay" minister for almost twenty years. EVERYTHING this dude said is shyte that I believed most of my life. Now, for the last twenty years, everything YOU said, is what I know! Kudos to you, my man!
I have never seen Forrest, such a leveled headed scientist, lose his temper SO bad lmao. Rightfully so too.
"How can you blame someone for what someone else did". it's like blaming a kid who shot themselves with their parent's gun. There are so many ways the parent could have prevented it, there is no outcome where the child is at fault.
That child must have been playing too much vidya games! /s
@@Ghalaghor_McAllistorSpecifically Persona. 💀
More like my great great great great grandfather stole a car so now I go to jail for it.
Forrest and JMike are the best pair of this show. I will ALWAYS watch 100% through on all videos showing these 2.
JMike's strength with philosophy and Forrest's with science are a perfect ying and yang.
I feel the same exact way. Now if it’s Forrest and some one else he can go on and on about biology lol but anywhere jmike is in there to listen
@@toddsheridan1733just FYI it's Yin and Yang not Ying and Yang.
“People invent gods so they can live without consequences” that’s a quote I heard a while ago from someone on the internet that I can’t remember. But this caller reminded me of that quote
Holy cow this caller is amazing. Amazingly dense, blind and unwilling to answer the simplest question. The man is so deep into the bs that will probably never find his way back to using common sense. It's horrifying to me that people like this are around. I WISH someone had asked me these things when I was a christian, I might have found my way out earlier than I did.
James cannot see the contradictory nature of his belief. It's kinda sad really...
He's adoctrinated. It's like programming a robot to just do certain things.
Always a total bemusement to me that a demographic that constantly harps upon freedom and individuality remains allergic af to autonomy, consent, and self-actualization of any kind.
Oh but you misunderstand. What they mean is that you can have the rights they say you can have dependent on their cherry picking based on ancient texts. Unfortunately in some societies like Saudi Arabia, Iran or the US this is just the way it works in practise these days.
@michaelmay5453 yes!😊
TWRP put it best:
"Have you heard the good news?
You can do as you choose
Just as long as it's what they tell you to do"
Ummmm......are youns being held captive and being force fed the Bible until you say you believe? Who is this "they" and what rights are they taking from you? LOL, nobody's forcing you to do anything. So dramatic 😆
@@smsquared73 nobody said anything about it being forced on anyone, though the evangelical mindset is certainly an argument that it is. The point is that this thinking demonstrates cult-like entrapment, where "freedom" is redefined to describe a narrow selection of dogmatic ideas that the religious authority supports.
I think this show is taking a toll on Forrest. When he first started on the show he never got upset and exercised extreme amounts of patience. I’m not saying he’s unjustified, but people can only take so much of otherwise good people being horrible
Harden the feck up buttercup.
Forrest was fully justified in his eloquent rant at the end. That the caller had to obviously ignore because it floored his entire immoral argument.
Imagine a justice system that sees no difference between stealing a nickel's worth of candy and rape, and hands down no punishment whatsoever if you tell the judge how awesome his kid is.
When?
@@tylerstoakes4940 Don't you remember? Jesus said that you get the premium heaven if your are good?
Too bad that Paul came along and changed the theology so that it doesn't matter if you are good or not, as long as you accept Jesus as your savior. And that's how Christianity became completely immoral with no justice.
The only question is how much and how hard is KenFuckyBrad going to be punished for all the *LIES* he has posted here?
@@KentuckyBrad @KentuckyBrad asked "Why do you feel God is not loving?"
@holgerlubotzki3469 "Because he killed babies to punish the parents and atheists don't believe that resembles "love". We
know you think differently but you won't tell us why for some reason."
@KentuckyBrad "scripture reference??"
@holgerlubotzki3469 "scripture reference for what, Brad? For *YOUR* lack of morality?"
@KentuckyBrad "you said God killed babies to punish parents, where is that written"
@holgerlubotzki3469 "Exodus 12:29"
@KentuckyBrad "and how was that to punish the parents?"
@holgerlubotzki3469 "Are you saying your g0d killed those babies just for the fun of it? Wow!"
@KentuckyBrad "no I am trying to get you to understand the Bible in context"
@holgerlubotzki3469 "What's the context of killing babies, Brad?"
@KentuckyBrad "do you believe the Egyptians killing Hebrews babies was wrong?"
@holgerlubotzki3469 "Yes! I also don't believe the Egyptians were all powerful like your g0d and they never claimed to
be all loving either.
So now give me some context for your all powerful loving g0d killing babies."
@KentuckyBrad [crickets....]
@@KentuckyBrad My post was a verbatim record of the exchange. You never responded with any context for your bible g0d killing those
babies.
It is not at all surprising that your only answer to having your own *LIES* laid bare is to accuse others of lying. I expect nothing less from
a messenger of *SATAN, The Great Deceiver!!*
One day a church goer approaches his pastor and says to him, “Pastor I’m having doubts about God. I just can’t seem to
feel his presence. What should I do?”
The pastor responds saying, “ I understand. Truly, I do. We all go through seasons of doubt and uncertainty. What I
usually do is try to imitate our Lord as Paul said in Ephesians ‘Be imitators of God’. Imitating God may help connect to
Him.”
The man responds saying, “Alright, thanks I’ll try it.”
A month passes and the man returns to his pastor, “I did it, I did what I was most certain God does in fact do.”
The pastor then asks, “Do you feel closer to God?”
The man’s shoulders sag and he shakily says, “No. In fact I have more doubts than before. I don’t think God cares about
us at all. Worse still, I really and truly hate myself now!”
The pastor is taken aback, and quickly asks, “What did you do that you were certain God does?”
The man looks his pastor in the eyes and says, “I wanted to do something that I was certain God does. I thought for weeks
but I just don’t know what’s actually true in God’s word. Then one day it was late at night and I was out walking trying
to get my mind to come up with something. Anything. I heard some kind of altercation down an alley and so I investigated. I
found a woman being raped by man who overpowered her. I thought to myself what would God do? The answer came immediately
and with certainty, I just stood there and watched it happen, doing nothing.”
That didn't happen except by mental illness. I could just as easily say that God put him there to STOP THE RAPE and he not only failed himself, but he also failed God and that fool will give an account for his evil act come "Judgement Day."
Bravely bold Sir NEPPY
Rode forth from his basement.
He was not afraid to lose,
Oh brave Sir NEPPY.
He was not at all afraid
To be shamed in silly ways.
Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir NEPPY.
He was not in the least bit scared
To be laughed at in public.
Or to have his brain flayed out,
And his logic broken.
To have his fallacies split
And his self esteem burned away,
And his credibility all hacked and mangled
Brave Sir NEPPY.
His lies smashed in
And his hatred cut out
And his logic removed
And his banality unplugged
And his nonsense raped
And his rebuttals burnt off
And his penis (Phallusees?)
"That's, that's enough music for now lads, there's dirty work afoot."
Brave Sir NEPPY ran away.
("No!")
Bravely ran away away.
("I didn't!")
When logic reared it's ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
("I never!")
Yes, brave Sir NEPPY turned about
from the debate he chickened out.
("You're lying!")
Swiftly taking to his feet,
He beat a very brave retreat.
Bravest of the brave, Sir NEPPY!
@@holgerlubotzki3469 Wait. Did NEPy think that you are claiming that your story actually happened? His response is to dispute that it happened as if anyone even thought the story was actually true???
His "argumentation" is even funnier. He thinks he can say that god put him there to stop the rape and the fault was in god putting someone there that he KNEW wasn't going to stop the rape. How incompetent!
When will Forest use his Scientific training to evidence his anti-God assumptions?
@@holgerlubotzki3469 Did you see the winner of the Golden Crocoduck award?
Forrest is the best
Starting from 28:14 there is no way out of it.
I hope more people listen to this whole call with open mind...
You can hear just the last 5 minutes to learn instead of going through the pain and suffering of the first 28 minutes of the call
Forrest is just too dam smart for most callers.
If eating that fruit taught them good and evil, how did they do evil by eating it if they didn't know what the difference between good and evil was at that time?
Adam & Eve already had knowledge of right and wrong - else they wouldn't of been punished for their deed by our perfect & just God. That said, the tree was "The knowledge of good and evil" for which they didn't know. They had no conscience. For instance, they didn't know to be ashamed of their nakedness UNTIL AFTER they ate of the tree. They had never did nothing wrong; thus, they were completely oblivious as to the consequences of not only doing wrong, but having a conscious knowledge of morality. Try to learn.
@@neverendingparty1534Nonsense. The bible is quite clear that their eyes were opened, knowing right and wrong after eating the fruit. Genesis is a great example why we shouldn't believe God is loving or just. His punishment was excessively out of line.
@@neverendingparty1534How do you make the distinction between the knowledge of good and evil and the knowledge of right and wrong? Hint: simply claiming the difference is that God would punish the second while ignoring the first is working backwards from the conclusion, and just begging the question. I’m sincerely interested in reading your response, so please consider it carefully, and show your work. Thanks in advance.
It's even worse though, because they were tempted by the truth. The only reason to obey that Yahweh had provided turned out to be a lie. With no capacity to understand that disobeying Him is inherently evil, they had no reason to obey, and were set up from the beginning to fail.
People actually arguing about a stupid fruit tree story is hilarious 😅
So the kind and loving god doesn't intervene when thousands of innocent children starve to death every day, a particularly long and painful way to die, because he is patient?
Oh my!
I’ve never encountered such a single minded, unthinking train wreck waiting to happen in my life!
It was like watching a boulder falling out of the sky, knowing it’s going to flatten you, and still watching in oblivious fascination!
Woohoo!!! A Forrest Fire!! Love it!!! So very frustrating when the facts are countered with "yeah but...".
How in the world does this person know this is what God is doing??? Evidence anyone?
Source: my butt
Proof people make up goods every second out of thin air, they will just define any traits they want or not want to their god, and every single theist has a different version of a god 😂
My best guess is it's his best guess. Poor lad...
Jung said something like, all gods are projections of the human psyche. What you are hearing from this person is a projection of what he would do were he God. He looks in his God mirror (Bible) and this is what he sees.
The only evidence you can find is in this dude's head.
Forrest’s monologue at the end of the call about had me standing up and applauding.
Disgusting!!
He started with "I have the solution to the problem of evil."
And I knew we were in trouble!
Damn.
I could listen to this (and I just might) 100 times.
This was the WORST caller from last week. 🤦♂🤦♂
He's a repeat offender. He never learns.
Worst caller, but best entertainment.
@@spocksvulcanbrain I think Otangelo is worse, but I agree that James is very entertaining!
@@sister_bertrille9117 day calendar guy and Robin are the worst.
James might be a contender for "The Most Punchable Voice On CZcams" 2023.
You really have to NOT read a bible to believe these excuses.
Dawkins has a story of Winston's son Randolph Churchill accepting a challenge to read the whole Bible in a couple of weeks, and having been so unfamiliar with its content he kept coming back to his challenger with "Did you know it says *_This?_* , and even "Gawd, what a _shit_ God is!"
The moment he told us about god _not_ being a liar pretty much answered quite a bit of his being introduced to cherry-picking throughout his life, in likeness to damn near every Christian in this world anyway. How clear it truly was with this guy, though.
@@LuminesBreezer-- Expecially considering one the very first things God did was LIE to Adam and Eve telling them if they ate the fruit of knowledge they would die
Almost as if religion relies on ignorance and fear to control the masses.
Let's skip past the part where Adam and Eve have a choice between eating or not eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge and ask; how were two mere humans after eating a fruit supposed to have been infused with a miraculous substance which empowered them with their creator’s knowledge, able to coerce this all-knowing, all-powerful, infallible, invisible and eternal creator of everything God into believing they were just like him (or "us", if we are to recite the story correctly), and then into making a decision to expel them from paradise in fear they might eat another piece of fruit superimposed with a substance which grants eternal life? An all-knowing and infallible creator of the universe would have, (should) have been intelligent enough during "Plan A" to omit the planting of such consequential fruit trees during the construction of paradise.
This God, Christianity's God, is four plans deep by the time we get around to reading Revelation. The moment an alternate plan must be put into action, all-knowing and infallible characteristics are no longer a reasonable supposition. Throughout Christianity’s literature, their God fails to exhibit all-knowing and infallible capabilities. Rather he is insecure, indecisive, intolerant, destructive and genocidal.
YHWH's Plan A (Genesis 1:1-31) failed when he had to expel Adam and Eve from the garden (Genesis 3:22-24). Plan B failed when he decided to flood earth and start over (Genesis 6:5-22 through Genesis 7:1-24). Plan C failed when his ghost had sex with a teenage virgin (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) resulting in the birth of his human son/self (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John), who was executed by the most powerful earthly empire of his time, all to save humanity from his previous three incompetent attempts at creating paradise. The verdict is still out on Plan D because Christianity now claims everything will be sorted out in an imaginary afterlife (Revelation).
People really have to be naïve to believe that a primate-deity’s ghost had sex with a teenage virgin resulting in the birth of his human son/self who were then considered three gods in one and that any trash talking of two of the parts would be forgivable but saying bad things about the ghost part of the three in one god (Matthew 12:31) would end in eternal punishment. People really have to be naïve to believe that.
That was so painful, man. At least we got to see Spicy Forrest. Incredible work, guys 😊
I still consider myself a Christian, I still go to church, I still serve in many ways in my congregation.
But I have found myself on a journey recently and these videos are giving me some extra perspective on religious concepts. Forrest in particular has a marvelous way of explaining things and I have more questions to ask myself about my faith.
Just keep learning! Eventually you'll find your path.
What sort of questions? Share what you're willing to share
Make sure to be honest with yourself.
Your wasting valuable time that you will never get back.
@@godlyentertainmentlive9161 some questions include "does the Judeo-Christian interpretation of God actually exist?" Especially considering that it seems that the ancient Israelites seem to have blended the Canaanite gods Yahweh and El together into one monotheistic deity that became an influential concept in the region, especially once Jesus popped up on the scene in the early 30s AD.
And "how can the Bible be the 'inerrant' word of God when the mountain of geological, paleontological, biological and archaeological evidence seems to refute the creation narrative, the biblical stories of Noah's Ark, tower of Babel, etc?" It's fascinating.
And "why do so many of my Christian friends express a sincere connection with God, yet after all my years of attendance, Bible study and service to the church, I have never really felt God's presence in my life?"
And "why is my beautiful, kind, Christian mother suffering with Parkinson's? What is going to happen to babies, toddlers and young children who have died from cancer and other diseases who haven't had the opportunity to know Jesus? What about all the "pagan" people who didn't get to know Jesus before European colonisation began to spread Christianity?"
It's a lot to think about.
Forest went BEAST MODE!!! This is one of the best episode!!!!! Great work Forest!!!!
When you use religion as a moral reason to do bad things😂
Man Forest was on fire here 😂😂😂. The caller is messed up upstairs.
This was an absolute slam dunk. The nail in the coffin is when he admits that God knows of your evil intent, and so could stop you and punish you for it, but he doesn’t.
God has the super power of Evading responsibility no matter the atrocity he would be responsible for.
Like when Mordecai was handing out fliers and that dude in a suit just casually limbos his way under it.
Wow, Forrest is really coming into his own and becoming a stronger debater and thinker and the impact of the points he's making are landing harder. This is by far the best episode I've seen from him.
Like, I always think of him as "the science guy" but he was on point with all of his logical and theological stuff.
Welcome to the double Barrell gun show, James!
This was an excellent video!
So many theists here making comments and not calling into the show. What a bunch of cowards.
Absolute shower of cowards.
This has been one of my absolute favorite calls. When even Forrest loses his shit at a caller, you know it's bad!
The caller wasn't ready for this kind of conversation. He needs his god for backup.
I'm sure even he didn't know which one would or could be summoned after this call.
imagine being the guy that made forrest angry, when all he wants is to be a cool little dude
The way believers simply ignore cognitive dissonance is simply bizarre.
Dude thinks God made us to suffer and thinks that is an expression of love. I only hurt you because I love you... Whisky Tango the ever loving Foxtrot!
Look at what you made me do! You bastard, it's your fault. Such monstrous love...
@@c.guydubois8270Morgana: Look what you made me do!
As described by James, the Christian theology sounds not only absurd but also rather terrifying. Additionally, he sounds like the sort of person who could use his abhorrent beliefs to justify any sort of evil whatsoever.
I concur 😢
Reading Twelve Years A Slave is a lesson in how slave owners used the Bible to convince the slaves that they are slaves because Cain killed Abel, and they are being punished for what Cain did. Northup also tells how those slave owners would read from the Bible how god would punish them for trying to be free, and that god would punish them for not working hard enough. The ridiculous thing is that Solomon Northup heard and saw all this, and was a victim of it, and yet remained a devout believer and saw no evil or contradictions in those biblical teachings. Such is the evil in these Bronze Age myths, that both slaves and slave owners accepted that this was god's will without question.
Forrest, yer so funny! "It's like if I go up to a paraplegic and say, 'stand up and walk or I'm going to beat yer ass, it's not their fault if they don't stand up and walk'..." (LOL). 😂
I completely approve James as a representative of his " god ". Doing Atheists work for them.
Thank you James, and all like you. Sincerely,
The Atheist community.
A true symbol of how far the termites spread
Technically second...! I used to be a full on theist until you guys got me thinking! True salvation right there!
And it's why we have indoctrinated idiots like James not only revealing this type of delusion, but it's turning heads and becoming a much stronger eye opener to further strengthen truth. A major wish that my mother can see, unfortunately.
Man the last video and this one are some of the best arguments against a "god" I've ever heard.
a monotheistic god anyway
It never ceases to amaze me how these people swear they have all the answers for their “god’s” actions.
Awesome video guys!!! Forrest and Jmike are perfect together.
Going for the SA scenario:
If the person is stopped from assaulting another, could they still not realize the error of their desires and repent? Does a victim need to suffer for a predator to be able to possibly repent?
We all have free will. That's why there's a "Judgement Day" for our free will acts. If we were programmed robots, there would be no "Judgement Day." You're clearly desperately trying to justify your sin and blame our PERFECT GOD at the same time. It won't do.
@@neverendingparty4832 and you're desperately wanting to cling to your religion to justify your lack of critical thinking.
Seriously, did you read what I said? I'm not talking about the punishment, I'm not talking about free will. I am asking if the only way for a person to repent is to first victimize someone else.
@@neverendingparty4832 also, I don't blame your "perfect god", because I don't think one exists. What I am against is the logical contradictions and moral vacuums found in those who want to defend the character they believe in.
@@neverendingparty4832Freedom to get assaulted, thank you God!
@@neverendingparty4832I don’t need to justify anything, asshole, being fully aware of all the bad choices I’ve made and the personal wrongs I’ve freely committed, even while having lived (by most standards) a fairly sedate life in a world overwhelmed by pain and so much wasted potential. Still, I don’t expect to be rewarded by any deity for my occasional kindnesses any more than I’ll be punished for my sins. My own conscience in both cases must suffice, as it does for many who strive to be good people, even as we often fall short.
I knew this guy sounded familiar. I've forgotten his original name he called under but he's a repeat caller from years ago on this show, still talking with that same condescending, creepy tone, still dodging and raising his voice to talk over the hosts whenever he gets flustered.
What a baller way to end that segment. Keep up the amazing work.
Sweet nectar. You guys are fantastic!!!
God can't be patient because he doesn't exist.
FACTS!!
@@albaniahenry-franklin2829
The politically correct word for religious brainwashing is: Indoctrination.
He does exist.... in the narrow minds of about 4billion people😬😬😬
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
― Epicurus
I'm impressed with the amount of times you allowed him to talk over you, shutting up and listening instead of shouting him down, before he ran out of arguments and you had to talk over him because you'd already addressed his current point in a previous loop of the same logical flaws you've already covered. You also managed, even while saying "fuck this shit I'm muting you" to be more polite about muting him than some Christians I've seen hosting calls like this one in the opposite direction. You did talk over him and shout down his comments a few times, but never without explaining and justifying yourself in doing so.
NOTE: I'm not an atheist, but also not Christian, so neither perspective in this conversation reflects my own beliefs or tries to debunk them directly. With that in mind, an important part of what I believe is that everyone should find their own path, and for some, atheism is the road they're meant to follow, and some people are at their best when following a Christian path. I would consider it wrong to try and convince you (all 3 of you) to believe what I do, because I don't think it's where you should be going in your lives. I'm concerned for the caller you spoke to because he seems to be having a rough time finding the right path for himself to follow, so I hope he does manage to resolve the conflicts inherent in himself, but whether that leads him to a more self-consistent interpretation of Christianity, a different religion, or atheism, is up to him. Keep being good to yourselves and others, that's the most important thing you can do in this life, regardless of whether you believe there's anything after this life or not, and regardless of how many and/or which gods you choose to believe in or not.
If only people didn't sin....
I wouldn't have gout, arthritis, and all the other crap I suffer with...
Thanks a lot, people! Thanks guys. You rock!
sorry. it only happenned to you coz i did something gay and that made god angry at me and punish you for it
@@KentuckyBrad So you have no idea how biology works then. No idea about how viruses, disease and illnesses can spread or what causes them.
Are you by any chance an anti vaxer or cv 19 denier too ?
@@FelixBatMy guess is that he is. 🤢
@@KentuckyBrad "if you don’t take care of your body, you get sick, plain and simple"
You really are uneducated....
Getting sick is from acquiring a DISEASE. You can be perfectly fit and healthy and take great care of your body but still get multiple diseases...
@@KentuckyBrad
Just when I thought you couldn't be any more ignorant