Should God Send Matt to Hell, God Is Love | John | The Atheist Experience 579
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- The Atheist Experience 579 for November 16, 2008 with Matt Dillahunty and Tracie Harris.
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God is love. He loves you so much that his unwilling to show himself to you and punishes you forever for not believing in him on blind faith.
Doesn’t make sense, huh. I’ve come to understand that if something doesn’t make sense, it’s bullshit.
@@thepaperstaggering when it comes to the way theist think I completely agree. Although your logic fails a bit tho as I don’t understand quantum mechanics but i don’t think it’s bull shit.
Well, when you put it like that, religion sounds pretty darn good! Where do I sign up? 😎
@@adamcroft80 I understand your point. In defense of my statement, though… Not that just because I don’t understand it, is it bullshit… but if we’re using layman’s terms (not astrophysics jargon) then there’s not much that I wouldn’t understand in general. If I understand the words, but the words don’t come together in an understandable way, then it’s highly likely that the words are strung together in a bullshit way. That makes the rabble bullshit. Observe:
“Awesome, redness proliferates intimate justice in the big picture.”
That’s bullshit.
_Any_ talk about things we don’t understand well enough to make it easily communicated to others is bullshit talk. Concepts that are obviously dubious and not based in experience or observable fact are also bullshit.
Am I wrong in some way?
@Robert Do tell us how believing in a man in the sky for which there is no evidence makes one wise and understanding. Isn’t believing in fairy tales like Santa and the Easter Bunny and God almost the definition of having a childlike mind, meaning maybe you’d fit that category more accurately?
It's heartbreaking to hear what Christianity does to people's minds.
man creates god in his own image
I've never understood what killing someone fixed.
EVERY human problem that was there before this supposed sacrifice, is still there AFTER it.
So what did it actually do ?
🤔🌏☮️
Honestly, I can't tell the difference between my nephew telling me about Batman and this dude telling us all about his magic papa. My nephew is 5.
Batman is so much more believable.
@@jaymorgan8013 you are so right here!
Cute!
did you mean "can't"?
@@richiejohnson yes. Will correct. Thanks!
Whats brutally embarrassing is that he knows he can’t reconcile any of it but tragically tries to.
"I swear to YOUR god..." LOL. That line never gets old. :D
😂😂😂
Jaclyn Glen always says "I swear to the god I don't believe in" and that one gets me
NEVER
I swear to whatever God you believe in....
That is the saying and it is older than you think guys. It's funny though
@@tybeeislandgoat1402 please elucidate
In the Bible no evil was recorded that Satan did, but God did all the time.
god is evil and Satan
The story of Abraham always gets me mad. If god was truly testing him, Abraham should have said, "Fuck you, I'm not going to kill my own son, you monster" and god would have said, "OK, you passed."
hahaha thats a great point
Plus an all-knowing all-loving god wouldn't need to test him like that in the first place.
Religious apologists say no man can understand the mind of god, but when they back themselves into a corner, they try to claim they know what god would or wouldn't do. The bible says you can be sent to hell for "doing ought presumptuously", and I'd say trying to speak for god is very presumptuous.
Apologists are very dishonest people.
Ikr
@Doctor Powers So according to you if there is a god we have no reason to believe that the Bible is necessarily true since god can do anything including ignoring everything that’s ever written about him? Like the Bible says do so and so and you’ll go to heaven but god can just be like: “Sike, you think I’d want to hang out with people that do so and so? No way. Have fun in hell sucker.”
@Doctor Powers Ok then you know nothing. The Bible is just a book where anonymous people assert that they speak for god. There's no way to validate that, there's no reason to believe. Sorry. A book of talking snakes and talking goats is not a credible place to justify belief in a diety.
@Doctor Powers I can't believe you took the time to type out all that nonsense. 50 years of study and this is what you come up with? Demonstrate how you can investigate and detect the creator of the universe, indepedent of the Bible. Let me know how some sort of being knows everything without learning anything.
The con men who created this story were insanely good at their job have to give them credit
People like Ray Comefart and Kunt Hovind should write a bible. And that demonic clown. It'd pretty much be the same garbage.
But could you imagine an adult who didn't grow up with it hearing it for the first time?
They would have been the richest authors ever
Master Manipulators, conmen, grifters, thieves and psychopaths.
Come on, this story is not believable.. it's the suckers who chose to believe in the first place that we should give all the credit too. Most were probably desperate just to survive and so they willfully ignored the truth for this bullshit just to stay alive.
I love when Matt can site a bible passage before the caller.
and I love it when people spell cite correctly
@@theunrepentantatheist24 my mistake..
@@chaance117 it's ok I make spelling bloopers all the time
That's insanely savy 🔥
Yeah.
Dude. Matt kills it when it comes to explaining it
it is amazing how theists are able to "know" the mind of god without being able to provide evidence in any way of it's existence
Theists are able to know God's mind only when God is represented in good way. When God orders genocide or allows suffering, then nobody can know God's mind, according to theists.
Yes, and in specific individual detail, that always lines up with the individual. Funny that........ ;)
Jesus Christ is more moral than any human being. Well that's a load of shit.
I don't know who they think they are kidding
Yes but I have a lot of zigzag and a hot tub and a big old 🗝️and a hot tub with a million 8
"Should God Send Matt to Hell,"
God shouldn't send anyone to hell. All the trouble was caused by god putting the forbidden fruit in the garden, all the blame is on god for his monumental screw up.
What's worse, he knew that was going to happen before he did it so he set is up solely to fail... Unless god didn't know that then he isn't a God
God doesn't send anyone to hell; people send themselves there. Those people make Hell on earth, and when they die, their immortal soul goes on to exist in complete separation from God. That equals Hell; Why?? Because humanity was designed by God to live in relationship with him.
@@Elurin nope
@@Elurin god doesn't send anyone to hell.... Ok let's show how wrong you are.
1. God made the rules.
2. God can change the rules as he sees fit.
3. When you die who sends you to where you're going? If it's God then he sends you to hell if it is some other entity that God created and told what he wanted it to do then God is sending you to hell. There is no third option so only god is sending you to hell.
4. God is all knowing which means he knew you were going to hell the moment he made you so god is sending you to hell simply by creating you.
5. "But you have free will" so God isn't all knowing and isn't a God and the devil is stronger than he is so going to hell is probably the real heaven.
6. God loves you so much that he could forgive you and accept you into heaven any moment he wishes but he doesn't and sends you to hell.....
Are you keeping up? God, by the very fact he created hell, sends you to hell because he could easily accept you into heaven regardless of anything you think want or believe. By not accepting you into heaven he is sending you to hell be default.
@@deanmoncaster Okay, first of all your going to have to wrap your mind around this simple truth: Gods foreknowledge of your choice doesn't take that choice away from you. Got it? Good.
It's not the word of God it"s the word of man, man came up with all this word salad
Never has a salad been so disgusting.
They came up with god as well.
"Tachyon transmissions of volcanic mudflows ignite star kernels subducting organic ingredients for blueberries and carparks withholding wave travelling containers for alien personalities and thusly creating quantum fissures in the spacetime continuum. Oxygen-bearing pools of time and a comprehension of turnips in ecstasy quickly convey interstellar gas clouds attended by vienna sausages."
---Albert Einstein
Fact checkers say..."Correct!"
"Fact checks can be checked because they're checkable by checkers."
---Albert Einstein
For God so loved the upright apes that he sacrificed himself, to himself, in order to convince himself to forgive them.
Agreed. And gawd if you reject hiz ghost self he won't forgive yet dis gawd doesn't lie.
God's fake sacrifice of himself to 'save' followers does not make up for every innocent thing he slaughtered during the supposed great flood.
Why would anyone pay homage to something that gets off on murder?
What if he decides everyone in heaven gets sent to hell? Wouldn't be the first time he had a hissy fit and destroyed the chess pieces.
Exactly, even IF u go to heaven you're still at the mercy of this psychopath.
Its hard to start a conversation with jokers.. That will lead to nowhere
@Robert “A puppet is free as long as he loves his strings.” Sam Harris
@Doctor Powers can you do bad things in heaven?
@Robert Right, ‘cause *you* know who the “true blue” believers are. 😂
So basically God hates sin more than he loves his creation. Therefore his hatred is bigger than his love.
Fear is a device to control people.
I absolutely love how Matt cites correct chapters and verses before the fumbling Bible-thumping callers, with bibles in hand.
I am never ceased to be amazed at how a) theists are so totally sure of their convictions and b) are so totally unreasoning in their assessments of those beliefs. Where else in life would people be so willing to accept on face value things that can be so easily refuted? Astounding.
One of your best calls. I applaud your patience with these callers. And your clarity in calling on their stupidity.
Yeah, why does God hide himself from humanity if he loves us? Why does he do something, even a tiny something, to prove his love after 2000 years?
It almost feels like religions were derived from stories parents told their children to get the children to behave while avoiding making the parents the bad guys. "If you don't behave, the big invisible man in the sky told me you will be punished - much worse than any spanking or going to bed without dinner." Those children grew up and never realized the man in the sky was fictitious and they told their children, which worked, who grew up and told their children the same stories. Now, thousands of years later, people still don't know how to behave on their own so they have to believe some invisible man in the sky will punish them if they don't behave.
Damn shame, ain’t it.
@Robert I kind of remember this song; "This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine, except for the word of God, hidden in deeper meaning?" Friendly gibe aside, I think if God wants us to know something, it shouldn't be hidden, paticularly in deeper meaning. Have you ever heard the phrase "double-speak?" It's an extremely tricky way to lie about something. It falls under the same idea as "speaking with a forked tongue." If that's how God chooses to speak to us, then I have far more qestions than answers from the bible, which is suppose to be a book of answers, right?
@Robert No. Matt not "trying to understand the deeper meaning" was the topic, not Jesus or God. I'm also not talking about God: I'm talking about the source material for that "deeper understanding" of what Jesus said. Simply put, the Bible can't be trusted. Either it says what it means to say and therefore interpretation or "deeper understanding" is folks trying to move the proverbial goal post, or the source material is purposely deceptive by hiding critical information.
Just send 15%, and forget it. Matt will let you in.
@Robert I'm not sure I'd call someone who asks direct, honest questions, and most of the time can't get a straight answer, a child. If there were wisdom in the words he couldn't find elsewhere, he'd likely have found at least some hint of it by now. But instead, all he gets for his questions are fallacies, baseless assertions, and insistence on faith.
Should god have created hell? That's a hell of a thing for a "loving being" to do. :/
Should god have made the devil equally as strong as him, and a place for him to live? The bible is a really strange fictional origin story.
@@DemiHavok420 The devil is not remotely as powerful as god.
@Doctor Powers God is only imaginary, thus poweless.
Seems like the very first thing god made was a hell, then it wanted to use it so it made things to put in it, and had to make reasons or excuses for why he’s using it. It must’ve been really expensive which would explain why he likes money so much. Also wouldn’t he being using it still? As we speak he’s stoking the fires lol. What a dick, I call top bunk.
Funny to think it’s all powerful, yet Christina say he “wants” me. Or us, never “need” because if they use the word “need” like god needs us, or don’t you need god? It implies not all powerful. So by making and using hell this would be a want at best, as well as making anything, it would all be arbitrary. It made life because it wanted to, not needed to. So we’re technically an art project from some psycho rock maker who’s mad at his art project for not being the way it “wanted” it to be. Non of this it a need for it, the stubbed toe we all experience? A want it made, that baby that didn’t participate because it died in pain from leukemia? Just art. That rainbow it made? More useless art so this things ego can be stroked. 🤦♂️, to say a universe needs or had a maker implies a lot, especially when we pin on a nonsensical phrase such as “all powerful”. I don’t even know what that would mean, compared to what? Anything it made? Duh...
I LOVE Tracie’s comment about how if you could actually see hell it might change your mind about how you feel about it. I would imagine the same for Christians who would meet the real Jesus (if he existed). Imagination vs reality would be astonishing and stark, I would think.
Why is it so hard for theists to answer simple questions?? They fumble to even answer yes or no questions..They say they “wholeheartedly” believe this stuff, but can’t answer simple questions about what they believe and why lol! Most of these callers talk in circles and ramble and many times they never end up answering the question! If this belief system is is 100% important to their lives and determines the way they should live, it shouldn’t be this hard .
Because they’re not there to answer questions or have a discussion.
They are there to preach and/or testify.
They are all dishonest.
@Doctor Powers
You certainly don’t have to lie.
And yet you do, constantly and demonstrably.
@Doctor Powers
Your comments illustrate the lie of that answer.
Its not hard maybe the question is silly..
“I don’t need to lie..” Yes, you do. That’s the *only* way you’ll get attention, you’re a like a spoiled child. The minute no one’s eyes are on you, you stamp your feet and copy paste your misrepresentation and misunderstanding of science, atheism, and atheists in general until you get bored, then delete and claim we did it.
Rinse and repeat.
I love this clip.
Gonna bookmark for later conversations with theists.
Atheist: Why is God/Jesus source for morality?
Theist: Because he is peace/love/just.
Atheist: Would you follow Jesus if Bible tells us that he commanded child rape?
Theist: (if he says yes)
Atheist: So you would follow Jesus because he is peace/love/just, but you would rape a child if Jesus commands it. How can rape be peaceful/love/just?
Theist: (if he says no)
Atheist: Then your source of morality isn't God/Jesus, your source of morality is peace/love/justice.
(This conversation is depended, of course, on unlikely chance of theist actually answering question directly.)
This was awesome. It's amazing what hoops someone will jump through to justify their belief in utter bullshit! 🤣
Really enjoyed this one. “Elvis died for my sins…” 😂😂😂
Best line in the thing!
And rose from the dead😢
What amazes me the most about religious apologists is that they will expend a huge amount of energy tying themselves up in knots trying to explain the absolutism of their beliefs but they won't lift a single finger to understand anything about physics or any other science. It amazes me to no end.
It's amazing how theists twist themselves into knots when challenged with simple logic and critical thinking.
good old stuff. This one is a real gem. Thank you Matt, you're a genius.
If God created hell to torture Satan, it is not really working out is it? Satan seems to be enjoying hell...
"God can't be in the presence of sin." I thought he could do anything.
Iz SIN a deadly kryptonite to him lol. Almighty gawd.
love the clips with simple john, he is so confused he does'nt no what is right and what is wrong , as Matt would say hes an immoral thug, shame is he just does'nt realise it
Doesn't
Just remember that the apostrophe in a contraction fills the space where the missing letters should be.
Does not
Doesn't
You have
You've
I still can't figure out where it goes when a name ending in an S owns something.
These are so good. What you have lost, Atheist Experience, when Matt left you is enormous.
John is yet another example how a mind can be fried to a cinder by a religious fiction.
Thank you
Loving these older episodes. Young Matt was great.
_God has a kink that involves fire and torture _*_but you have no safe words_*
Christianity has a better understanding of how the world works.. And if you dont understand how it does it makes you hard to understand Christianity
@@jared2244 you're simply wrong
There’s nothing to understand, Christianity is based on stories written anonymously by primitive humans thousands of years ago used to comfort, control and scare the illiterate masses of people living in the desert half a world away. That’s it. There’s no actual evidence of an invisible wizard that gives a damn about 7.8 billion primates on this rock speeding through space.
@@DiMadHatter "..are simply wrong" Wrong about what?
@@jared2244 about what you wrote, crétin
Such an excellent presentation. How I wish I could remember this, if it came to that.
Tracey's take down ends the argument completely.
If God had one representative on this planet that wasn't completely morally bankrupt I'd be marginally more impressed. If God made us in his image why are his representatives the worst that humanity has to offer?
Wtf it's really a simple YES or NO question John, here's kind of a loose rule, if you're asked a simple question about a belief you hold and you have to tap dance, avoid, redirect...you should take a good long look at that belief and how you got to it.
God makes the rules. How can anyone be fine with the rules if it condemns people to ETERNAL damnation? That's the ultimate overkill. No sane person would be okay with rules that ridiculous.
Evil God megatron
The squirming and agonized dodging coming from this caller is somewhere between painful and hilarious!
... but it is normal and typical for the 'believers'. They are mentally and intellectually divorced from fact and reality.
The definition of holy is a person who does what God expects them to do irrelevant of whether or not the act is moral.
The story of Abraham's moral comes down to "it was just a prank, bro"
15:20 is the start of the most perfect of paragraphs that sums up religion especially Christianity.
God created people knowing they would go to Hell why? It's a ridiculous fairytale.
Maybe god is evil, like some early Xtian sects believed.
Is very difficult to accept all this years I believe in fairytale 😭😭😭😭. Take time maybe never to turn around.
Possibly my favorite call in the history of the show
you guys are great; clear thinking, logical, knowledgeable. I envy how quick you are.
God: why am I making me do this, I love you.
My parents thought that their job on earth was to "test" me and then punish me when I failed (and I always failed, they saw to that). My neck bristles when anyone does a "I was testing you" in any shape or form. If there was a god and this god was just testing his inventions I do not know that that would be a reason to respect this god at all.
The one my mom always throws out is Genesis 18:25 - "Shall not the judge of the earth do right?" which is essential a carte blanche for god to do whatever it wants.
John, apparently, isn't a Midianite.
I am going to make the ultimate sacrifice to save Matt from hell: I shall make a cupcake, whip it and smoosh it and then remould it into a cake pop. He shall be saved by this eternally painful selflessness.
The Great thing with morality, it's wholly man-made and doesn't exist outside of our minds.
I'm glad to see so many fresh comments on this video from so long ago
What a lot of BS! Hell is in someones brain...all these stories in this biblebook are fruits of the brain!
It's *SEXIST!!!* to use the term "bullsh*t" when she cows go poop, too.
And, it's also *SPECIESIST!!!* because non-bovine animals also expel digestion remnants through their anal orifice.
In the future, instead of saying "bullsh*t", everyone should please say "Non-gender-specific non-species-specific animal excrement".
And instead of using "BS", please use "NSNSAE".
Thank you for your cooperation.
Ancient alien astronaut theorists say yes!
Specifically the amygdala.
Can you be happily married to "the girl of your dreams" if your dream is a nightmare? Heaven is not a place so much as it is a state of being--- to be with God. Hell is a privation of that state of being.
"The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you" (Luke 17)
"If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!" (Matthew 6)
@@andrewferg8737everything is all from the brain..all those stories, all those kind of state someone is getting in...it is a human creation..the bible is nothing more than a collection of sheets with sometimes strange stories...thinking there is something in the sky that is kind of king is also a creation of the brain...thinking you are special..you are not...you are just a big sack of water..your whole existence is a brain that is making you do what it wants the rest of the body is the slave of your brain..you are nothing special..my advice..enjoy life..
No believers will ever answer a Question directly
Maybe guz religious decepticons are to busy and obsessed with wagering war on no believers and educated people.
This guy John sounds so much like the actor Kevin Costner.. it wouldn't surprise me because alot of actors have these same delusional fantasies
"God is omnipotent, and Evil cannot be in his presence" so God isn't omnipotent then?
I think you've got that a little backwards, if evil can't be in God's presence, then evil isn't omnipotent.
@@lizzard13666 no, you think wrong. If God we omnipotent then he could let evil be within his presence. We already know evil isn't omnipotent because it is never claimed to be so. Just that God has never bothered to eradicate that which he didn't like which he himself created.
@@deanmoncaster Oh, I get where you're coming from a little better now. Look, your original comment doesn't actually convey this properly! Here's what's actually going on:
God COULD allow evil in His presence, but He has told us He will be perfectly just and WON'T allow evil in His presence.
That's a perfect defeater for your argument right?
@@lizzard13666 it would be had the original premise been "won't allow" instead of "cannot be". Like trying to stop the tides. I cannot stop the tide, it's not that I won't allow myself to do it. Unlike king Canute.
@@deanmoncaster Evil cannot be in Yahweh's presence because He won't allow it. Problem solved!
Why didnt God simply appoint angels in heaven that he knew would not rebel?
Because he was bored, so created his own horror movie; even sadistic gods must get their entertainment somehow !
Roky_M Don't you enjoy having free choice? God wants to dwell with those who become His children - the ones who love Him. Everlasting life is not for those who HATE Him. And LOVE is not LOVE if someone has no choice. Angels and mankind - free choice to love God and dwell in eternity with Him or not.
Ww Lib But your supposedly omniscient god knows before he creates us who will choose him or not, so by only creating those who he knows will choose him, he is still giving them “free choice”, knowing what that choice will be, and thus mercifully avoiding torturing the vast majority of his creation for eternity in a pit of fire.
@@margaretbarrett6087 there's no eternal torture for the regular unbelievers or haters of God - read the Bible more closely. Only Satan, the antichrist and the false prophet experience the eternal torture of the Lake of Fire. All other unbelievers and haters ultimately perish (John 3 16) and at the last judgment are cremated - but not endlessly tortured. Luke describes a place of crying and gnashing of teeth - and Jesus actually descended into 'hell' for 3 nights. It is described as a place where the unbelieving dead can 'see' the Kingdom they have forsaken and because of that, mourn - the final judgment says these resurrected souls will be forever extinguished by cremation. I know I have spoken to you before as I recognize your 'name' - John 3 16 still offers you life everlasting, should you decide the gospel is worthy of another look. Jesus died so you could live and was resurrected to show you the way. Have a good day.
Ww Lib Well that is not the “interpretation “ of the majority of christians in these debates -
“Depart from me ye cursed into ETERNAL fire....” Matt 25:41
Nevertheless, my point still stands; your god deliberately created beings knowing full well that the vast majority of them would “cry, gnash their teeth and perish” (to give you the benefit of the doubt !) and that is an act of malice.
"Sin cannot be in the presence of God" So what was that when God and the devil were playing that game with Job? What tempted Jesus (who is supposedly God) in the desert for 40 days and even took him onto a mountain to see all the kingdoms of the world (and magically disappeared during the modern day)? Wasn't god the creator of good and evil? I gotta take some allegra . . . my allergy to bs is flaring up again.
Don't forget Satan's visit back to heaven, to discuss Job's virtue.
He got a special waiver that day, it seems.
I almost brought up the same point. My favorite part of this story (the Devil and Jesus) is that luke claims to be written from eyewitness testimony. There is literally no one who could have seen this happen, and there was literally no one who could have seen the conversation between Mary and the Angel.
God and sin are imiscible. Like oil and water. So...a Specific Gravity thing?
@@chrissonofpear1384 lol yup 😆
Pretty sure Yahweh's Bible and therefore Yahweh did command those offences against 12-year-old girls.
Even younger than 12 too.
One of my favorite clips from any of the episodes.
*"You do not reason a man out of something he was not reasoned into"--- Jonathan Swift*
Awesome episode my favorite duo !
Pretending to know exactly what God wants and thinks is the ultimate vanity, which is a sin, one of seven, but the way...
Is one of the early shows that I missed and I’m so glad it’s been republished.
Another eye opening episode. Thanks and Aloha 🌺
God's a monster and John doesn't get it, because John is to whipped to admit it.
If you need a divine power to tell you not to do the things we as a modern somewhat civilized society agree are unacceptable then your not ready for the possibilities and accountability that comes with a free will.
These older shows are great.
How is it possible that adults can actually believe this tripe?
Brainwash at young age and then they get used to believe without knowing why.
I was an adult and I believed this. Was I an idiot that whole time? I did get into college. A good one. You don't have to be so condecending.
They're incredibly afraid of death.
@@pollypockets508 Were you an idiot that whole time? Not an idiot at all, but you had been brainwashed at a young age. And then you came to your senses and grew out of it. I wasn't referring to you. I'm referring to people who are old enough to have some adult life experience. Old enough to have had a chance to study even rudimentary science. Old enough to understand that ancient tales of myth and magic are no literal historical events.
Bunch of possible factors. Fear of death, indoctrination, credulity or weakness (emotional OR intellectual).
Can someone explain this "it was not supposed to be" argument? Is god not alknowing? Did he then not by definition already knew what was going to be anyway?
They always trip up on that. You’re right that god is supposedly all-knowing, knows what’s going to happen in all circumstances. Then they say he made Adam and Eve and punished them for the way he made them, knowing they were gonna disobey him.
They’re not allowed to criticize god in any way so they don’t bring up how silly that is. God apparently also knew there would be a time when the internet exists and EVERYONE of any religion can have access to everyone else’s religion. He knew that there were a bunch of religions that all had the same holy text that declared itself “infallible” under its own authority, but didn’t give us why to tell which was true.
Because god doesn’t want you to accept him as true, he wants you to believe through fear and trembling, and love him because he says so.
@@mistersippi2945 - Indeed! That 'god' character is a mind-fucker beyond any and all imagination!
That's how free will works. God created us for a specific purpose, with a specific image in mind. He also gave us the free will to decide if we want to aim for that image, or not. Unfortunately every human has freely chosen to aim away from that image, except Jesus!
Of course God knew it would happen, but He loves us enough to give us the free choice! Like the saying goes; if you love something, you will let it go!
@@lizzard13666 God already knew in advance that all of this would happen. Yet he chose to go ahead. So no, there is no free will.
@@pelgrim8640 ... Wrong ... please demonstrate that all knowledge has causative power as you claim?
Has there ever been a time where you knew something, but it didn't affect the event at all? As in, your knowledge had no physical deterministic effect on the event?
I love that Matt brought up the ridiculousness of the jesus sacrifice. Sure, this one day will sort of suck, but hey at least I am still god. Yea me!
Theists: You need Jesus to save you.
Atheist: save me from what?
Theists: from what he's gonna do to you if you don't let him save you
..
So almighty gawd iz da very evil vengeful ghost 👻 who needs to save me from being saved by himself??
WHO YOU GONNA CALL??? (GODBUSTERS 👻🚫!!!)
Why/How would a God “do” anything at all? If god is perfect, how does it formulate wants? It def doesn’t have needs if it’s perfect. How does a god create a hierarchy of values to ever do anything? We smuggle in so much human baggage even when we try not to personify god, but when you really think about it, there’s no way to really justify god ever doing anything at all. Humans act based on wants and needs due to their physiological condition. God doesn’t have that, so how and why would a god ever act?
great comment
@Doctor Powers So it's a death cult, pure and simple. No thank you
@Doctor Powers word play and nonsense.
@Doctor Powers None of the can you actually prove, so it's just stories.
@Doctor Powers would you be willing to be my slave under biblical law? I hope so,I'm a sadist
I have evidence that there is hell. Hel is a town on the tip of Hel peninsula in Poland. Rest is merely a typo.
😂
Hell is also a town in Michigan.
@@johnmcclure40 There, evidence abounds!
I’ve been to Hell on the Grand Cayman Island. Don’t know about now, but when I went you had to go through a bar to get there.
There is also Hell in Norway.
I would have brought up the sacrifice of a daughter because that wasn’t called off but I think Matt does that now. Seems like people will say any excuse to save ideas they’re emotionally attached to.
Yes, Jephthah's daughter. There excuse in that one is that it was Jephthah's fault for making the promise. Because apparently, their god thing couldn't control what came out of the house first. Also, if it hadn't been the daughter it could have been his wife, a servant, other children... has to be a huge chance this would be a human sacrifice story no matter what came out of the house.
Every time christians makes a refernce to the bible, I hear "for the bible tells me so" - melody by Paulogia, in my head.
The whole cross-talk "can't hear you when I'm talking" issue seemed better in this age of TAE.
If there was a baby with in arms reach in a burning building, reaching out the window for help and I instead of coming to his aid .chose to stand by and ignore him as I watched the little guy die and the house collapse on itself. Am I not responsible for that babies death ? For any of you that still might have any doubt of responsibility. What if I told you I was even more powerful then super man? That I could of saved him in a instant. The point im making is simply this . Many Christians would try to argue the fact that God wouldn't send matt to hell ( or anyone for that matter ) but Matt choosing not to believe in Jesus is the same thing as him choosing to go to hell . That statement is so asinine it makes my head and heart hurt that people can't see that , that is not only clearly extortion but completely hypocritical for the supposed ultimate symbol of love to do . No one today would except those condition from anyone else ... especially if they claimed they loved them unconditionally.
It just makes no God damn sense. Because God has all the powers in the universe not saving anyone he loves even if they don't worship him and the ground he walks on still is immoral as f*ck . For man or gods !
There's an awful lot of conditions for that unconditional love...
Here’s what I would do if I were the so-called creator. Make Adam and Eve. If they ate from the tree and I didn’t like it, I would chastise them but give them a second chance, because everyone deserves a second chance. Alternatively considering I created everything, I would eradicate the talking snake/devil so that there wouldn’t be a problem in the first place. That’s because if he has no control over his creations, i.e. the devil, then he is not all powerful, omnipotent etc.
Though as me, I would, as I do, consider the entire story to be garbage written by ancient primitives, and take no notice of any of it. If none of the above options were achievable, it makes the entire story laughable to suggest that this so-called creator was all powerful.
This was one of the best interactions I've seen in a long time. Listening to this has made me wonder if, to this day, all of us still have no idea what we are and the roll we play in this existence. Conscientiousness in my opinion is a monumental improvement in the evolutionary process, however left to the interpretation of the beings provided with this gift from evolution, it has manifest itself into a curse, only because we don't want to admit what our gift is truly informing us of what we actually are and what we're actually supposed to be doing with it. But who knows maybe some day we will relise that we are not apart from this existence but rather of this existence. And by the way I don't believe conscientiousness will be the last step in our evolutionary journey. And if consciousness advanceed us this far from the last big evolutionary event how far more advanced will we become when the next advancement occures?
Humanity isn’t ready for another advancement, the bugs aren’t worked out of Human 1.0 yet.
@Doctor Powers 100 trillion years? I can't imagine anything worse than existing forever.
@Doctor Powers Funny how some fellow primates claim to have access to sources of information that are denied to the rest of us.
@Doctor Powers Sure they do... we're animals by definition. Homo sapiens is a mammalian species, and we're in the taxonomical category of Great Apes. Presumably you know what a mammal is, and what a Great Ape is, seeing as you're willing to say "try to learn!" in some kind of patronizing manner. All of this is basic High School-level biology.
@Doctor Powers No..? Homo sapiens is a specific species that does those things you listed. That doesn't mean every primate species does the same. There are also things you could list that gorillas can do that we can't do.
I love it when Christians say "If God was to admit or be proved to have made a mistake, then the universe would unravel". I say then. "that is proof that God does not exist, because the universe is still here!"
My favorite episode. Every believer should be forced to watch this, and not with their hands over eyes and screaming loud noises so they can't hear it.
Theists never have answered "yes" or "no" it aways starts "well ......
Yes, or "When I was a child I had a dog..."
Some awesome points made by both of you
When believers say I believe within my heart blah blah blah it kind of sounds okay but in reality it’s I believe within my head or mind it sounds kooky
Of course god should not send Matt to hell
Matt’s a fucking saint
Doesn’t god know this?!
I don't have enough hate to be a Christian.
I once described in graphic details the extreme torturing process of people burning in hell to a pastor. He was so aghast and called it satanic. Then I told him he better get used to it as billions of people including his friends and relatives will be burning in eternity while he is praising the creator of hell. After that, he completely avoid talking about Christianity and the bible with me. Good riddance.
Two people commit the exact same crime. The first prisoner comes before the judge and is sentenced to life in prison. The second prisoner appears before the same judge and happily greets the judge since he is his good friend. The judge let's the second prisoner go free. Christians are advocating for a system of favoritism!
Believers talk of Abraham as if it's been verified he existed, and he communicated with a god.
Whenever they mention Abraham I always try to point out that they have no evidence whatsoever that he communicated with a God, or existed.
Fay Spahmer Every word of the Old Testament is true ! - but when the words group together to form sentences, that’s when the crap begins.
@@margaretbarrett6087
Lol
@@margaretbarrett6087 🤣🤣🤣🤣
i wish christians woiuld actually look at the parent religion before making such claim. There is no Christian style heaven or hell, in judism. It was a translation error in the greek bible.
John would commit murder if he thought god ordered it.
He literally refused to acknowledge the first scenario, knowing goddamn well that he was throwing his hat in with someone who could theoretically order the worst, most vile shit ever.
@Doctor Powers 😂 Amazing to think something is stupid for honestly saying I DON’T KNOW instead of grasping for whatever answer makes you feel better. Come on mate, be reasonable.
Well... I honestly don't know what I expected, based on the title...
John has some top shelf nonsense to share lol
John is a lunatic. I wouldn't want to run into him in a dark alley.
Christianity is one screwed up mess
Christianity is ONE screwed up mess...and all the other religions are the OTHER screwed up messes.