The Philosophical Bankruptcy of "Effective Altruism"
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- čas přidán 8. 08. 2024
- In this episode of New Ideal Live, Ben Bayer and Elan Journo discuss the philosophical bankruptcy of effective altruism and the movement’s role in FTX’s financial collapse.
Among the topics covered:
• The connection between FTX’s financial collapse and the effective altruism movement, including CEO Sam Bankman-Fried’s goal of “earning to give”;
• What effective altruism advocates and why its offshoot, “longtermism,” champions some unusual causes;
• Why some of the common criticisms of effective altruism, such as the idea that it is a cynical ploy or that it is Utopian, miss the mark;
• The real problem with effective altruism, as shown by some of its major advocates, as its demand for self-effacement and sacrifice;
• How even secular altruists approach morality like a religion;
• How effective altruism is a form of debased morality, which empties morality of meaningful guidance relevant to our everyday lives;
• How a rational morality can be grounded in observable facts, not intuitions.
Mentioned in the discussion are Ayn Rand’s article “Moral Inflation,” published in The Ayn Rand Letter (estore.aynrand.org/products/t... ), and our episode of New Ideal Live, “Why MacAskill is Wrong about What We Owe the Future” ( • Why MacAskill Is Wrong... ).
This episode was recorded on December 16, 2022.
0:00:00 Introduction
0:00:50 FTX and effective altruism
0:05:55 Effective altruism and longtermism
0:15:35 Bad criticism of effective altruism
0:24:15 Self-effacement and sacrifice
0:38:58 Effective altruism like religion
0:47:00 Morality’s guidance in life
1:04:46 Grounds of rational morality
Excellent discussion. The in-depth philosophical analysis was refreshing. Thanks for making this available. This discussion parallels my take on effective altruism, which is: Since the highest value is “helping people”, and the highest virtue is selflessness in pursuing that value, then other virtues such as integrity and honesty are not only lower values but should be sacrificed if they get in the way of “helping people”.
Being an engineer who likes mathematiics, I always ask what happens when one lets the value of the inportant parameter approach infinity - the limiting case. In altruism the limit of the function as sacrifice approaches infinity is death by my recokoning.
5:00 - I was unaware of this detail, that Sam Bank Fraudman chose his career because it was the best way for him to sacrifice. Was encouraged out of his real passion for the sake of sacrificing. This story sounds like the real world version of "It's a Wonderful Life"
Sam didn’t live a meager existence; he just pretended to.
This show is superb. I first heard of Singer years ago when he made a some chilling remark about the the elderly. Parfit came to my attention from a young fellow who debated Yaron Brook last year. I wanted to hear more about Parfit from Objectivists, and so very much appreciate this discussion. Another philosoher I would enjoy seeing discussed is Gerry Cohen.
Essentially if you feel you are some servant of some even greater good in some future there's no limit to the amount of evil necessary now.
Especially when the "servants" are people who do what they are told, that is, "take orders".
Thanks for discussing this topic!
Thank you for this! I’ve been thinking of making public statements about FTX and effective altruism, but I’m finishing up my semester.
Why am I not surprised that Altruism is associated with "crypto-currency" of which one of the big wheels in said, according to the REASON CZcams channel, "I have created money de novo from nothing"?
If "effective altruism" is generating future happiness", (which makes no sense since altruism is about suffering, so effective altruism would be generating suffering to the max but I'll let that rife) Then guess who did it best. Hint: "...with happiness as Man's proper goal...". And as to "long term-ism"; "He who fights for the future lives in it today"? Hey; self-haters; ever feel like you just can't win? But then isn't losing the goal of philosophical masochism?
There is a problem here. If I refuse my own happiness then don't I render ineffective the alturism of someone who, 4,000 years ago, was a long termist trying to maximize the happiness of people 4,000 in his future? What kind of a heel does that make me?
This can really get to be a bigtime "who's on first" moment. It's gunk like this that puts the "nowhere'sville in "utopia"
😊
The question is: Do legacy charities fund criticism of EA which demands accounting of “altruism” that they (charities and foundations) do? EA funds research investigations on cost effectiveness of their own initiatives.
If a person can benefit others in without self sacrifice and benefit the self without sacrificing others.. what's the value of altruism? Answer: blankout
Wealth is created by Savings, Capital Investment and Increased Productivity---and as Ayn Rand said on my coffee cup "by man's capacity to think." Note that altruism is not on this list.
Re: 1:34 he looks a little like Ayn Rand. (no offense intended).
Mr. Journo--my reaction to being a "vessel" reminds me of Communism and its creation of hell on earth for human beings.
Although you can tell Ben Bayer did do his homework of reading EA influences this is terrifyingly midwit content and it hurt my brain to have listened to it.
To any EAs reading this, don't waste your time, this video doesn't deserve it, there's far better critiques elsewhere.
Where can I find these better critiques?
Please give us a key takeaway of where he went wrong
But if they're reading your comment they're listening to the video or listening while not noticing your comment. By all means, school us with your superior understanding.
I can totally see it hurting your brain.
I agree. This analys was really philosophically sophomoric (if even than). No doubt, the Randian mishmash is the main culprit.
I earn to give, too. Everytime I buy groceries, pay tuition, pay my bills, I’m helping support the employees, vendors, and farmers and their families around the world to make a living. And they do the same thing! And, the 🌏 goes on living!
There are criticisms of effective altruism. Ayn Rand, unsurprisingly, has one of the least interesting criticisms.
I think she was already dead when this philosophy launched.
Surprisingly, I could not find any criticism of Rand from Effective Altruists.