ARE PARADOX GRAND STRATEGY GAMES BETTER THAN TOTAL WAR?
Vložit
- čas přidán 13. 05. 2024
- When it comes to Grand Strategy games the two companies that pop up the most are without a doubt Creative Assembly with their Total War games & Paradox with Crusader Kings, Europa Universalis, Imperator Rome and others.
CA’s Total War has always involved a relatively fast paced campaign that rewards you for military expansion, technological development, coupled with some limited economic & political systems that all mesh together to create a pretty fun experience. The unique selling point though is the real time large scale battles that bring your factions to life and depending on the outcome, have a large impact on your campaigns.
Paradox games on the other hand, have always been about deep & varied grand strategy, maximising the replayability of the hundreds of different factions with intricate economic, political, dynastic, diplomatic and other such campaign mechanics. There are no real time battles like in Total War, but the empire management side of things is a lot more detailed and strategic. Both companies have a very different approach to grand strategy that have their pros and of course their cons.
In today’s video I’m going to do my best to compare these two types of games and offer you my analysis over whether one is actually better than the other. By the end you should have a pretty clear idea on what these games are all about, which one you might prefer & how they hold up against each other to come out on top in Grand Strategy gaming.
I hope you enjoyed this video guys and found it informative! If you did give the video a like and absolutely drop your thoughts and any questions at all! Subscribe to the channel for more total war content, gameplay & news like this & thanks for watching guys!
#TotalWar #ParadoxGames #GrandStrategy
SUBSCRIBE - / @theterminatorgaming
BUY ME A COFFEE! - www.buymeacoffee.com/thetermi
BECOME A PATRON! - / theterminatordonate
JOIN THE TERMI DISCORD! - / discord - Hry
What do you think: Paradox games or Total War?
Join the Termi Discord! - discord.gg/zJcvwn2CU8
Support the channel by becoming a Channel Member or by Buying me a Coffee! - www.buymeacoffee.com/thetermi
it's like comparing forks and knifes, TW isn't that much about Grand Strategy, even the best have campaign mechanics that are simle for a reason
TW is an RTS game first with the campaign serving to provide purpose to the skirmishes, as well as creating context to how the armies were formed (not just clicked together in a menu), and in what kind of map they meet (in at least some TW games like Shogun 2, the map you get is always the same if you are in the exact same spot, spawn points may vary)
this is also why I left TW after Warhammer, if the battles aren't fun then the campaign won't be fun
The Total War games have a much bigger budget and look much better. Battles in the Total War series are better than Hollywood movies, at the moment there are almost no games that can compare with them. The Paradox series positions itself as very historical, but in fact there are huge problems with this and it is infuriating... The best game in Paradox is Stellaris.
I have a dream that Creative Assembly and Paradox will one day work together in a game where they will give us the best things from both companies.
This is the right answer
And not give up like Imperator Rome.
Knowing our luck we will probably end up with the worst of both companies with 90% of the game being behind dlc
ye because fighting battle to fight another battle to win and conquer the world isn't funny anymore for most old total war players ..it always starts great when u feel the challenge if u play very hard diff and start to have economic problems .. but if u survive then it's finished .. u will win .. you always fight because u dont have anything to do except building economy , spam units and fight to win .. because there is no other cause of war than winning and conquering the world .. it feels too boring . too worthless... total war players were searching for epic battles with cinematic view and tons of units .. but hello total war it's 2022 .. no one is searching for only graphics anymore .. we need graphics .. but we need anything more to play total war now ..and plz stop making a cartoon graphics like troy"s graphic and start to make a realistic game . like we all want Medieval 3 .. PLZZZ
CA slowly morphing into EA
If Paradox included a real time battle mode the same as TW it would be hands down better. Battles are literally the only thing TW has over Paradox
'If this apple was an orange it would be an orange'
Yes, and if Total War had more depth on the campaign map it would be better than Paradox games hands down...
But don't underestimate the work that goes into making a Total War game, it's basically two entirely separate games that are integrated and effect eachother systems. There's a reason nobody else is even trying to compete on the same level.
@@cte1542 Maybe try other Paradox games. I don't find HOI4 fun at leat I think so but I love EU4 and Stellaris. Every Paradox game is different.
@@cte1542 Not my fault your attention span lasts 12 seconds and you can't handle a front line, in every game of Hearts of Iron i've played, I've been nothing but entertained. Unlike the awful garbage that is Total War now where you fight the same battle 12 times against never ending stacks of whatever you are up against. Where you only use the same strategy of hammer an anvil.
@@cte1542 i don't care much for graphic when playing grand strategy game.
I don't like doing the battle cause that feel like way to boring. Same gameplay and same strategy to win in almost every battle. I prefer thing like eu4 and ck3 that have more emphasis on diplomacy administration and territories management. Plus numerous mod that can basically overhaul the entire campaign and map to try something entirely new. Not much of a fan of HOI4 and stellaris
@@generals.patton546 Heyy don't be straight up shitting on total war, I've played pretty much every total war and paradox game and both of them excel in in their own way. Reasoning being kinda like britan and france during napoleon's era, you can't beat paradox at the perfect campaigns and stuff, but u can't beat total war in the almost always exciting tactical battles
i just want a ck3 with total war like battles or a total war with ck3 intrigue and diplomacy/immersion. would be the best strategy game of all time
Same here man
There's a mod called Crusader Blade. When you do battle in CK3, the mod will open up Mount&Blade Bannerlord and let you do the battle there.
Not quite like doing an overhead general role in TW but you can still control the army and fight yourself if you want.
Why not on steam?
@@utewbd yeah ie heard of it. just have way too many hours on bannerlord for me to enjoy it tbh lol
Knight of honor 2
They both have their place. Some nights its TW, some nights it's Paradox. I'm excited to try what their competitors have to offer, however.
Yea Paradox doesn't even compete with total war, you need a combat system to compete with total war
Exactly!
Total War Warhammer III's immortal empires campaign is one of the most amazing achievements I've ever seen in gaming. It's truly satisfying to have all the content of three freakin whole games in one place. Including the DLC I got for the earlier ones... just, damn. Glad they finally explored a fantasy setting and such an ambitious long-term project! ( They're constantly updating it too, so they're responding to community feedback fixing and improving things constantly )
A very good and fair video. I used to switch from Microsoft Age of Mythology (Age of Empires I & II before that) to TW Rome because I loved the combination of campaign and real-time battle. Even though the TW games never got perfect, that combination is what I want and like.
Nice to see 642 and 555 stuff in your vids.
Thanks bud :)
I’m not going to lie, while I’d love a bit more campaign depth I enjoy how relatively straightforward and streamlined total war campaign gameplay can be. Paradox is a bit too intense and the learning curve is a bit too steep for me.
I kind of agree with you :)
try ck3, extremely light learning curve(atleast for me) and absolutely lit gameplay, trust me once get into ck3 you'll never forget. That being said total war's tactical battles are *chefs kiss* perfect
Total war is harder too learn and that comes from a self taught ck2 player
Crusader Kings is such a boring mess. Total war games are easier to get into.
@@eric8275 They are "boring" because you haven't learned the games to the extent where you can make meaningful decisions. Every Paradox game is going to take you 10+ hours to properly grasp the mechanics. Once you understand what's going on, they are a joy to play. Trust me, I held a similar sentiment as you not so long ago :)
The sort of thing that would be cool to see in a total war is something where it’s made clear that you’re a nations *military* commander, not it’s head of state. Like you plan campaigns, decide which where to move your forces and how to organize them, but you don’t have to worry about the complexities of cultural, political, or diplomatic affairs at all
One method that could be introduced in total war games is no replenishment for forces in provinces with low public order and provinces that rebel lead to other rebellions throughout your lands not just regional provinces.
That would make the campaign focus just as much on the politics as much as the economic or war side of it.
Also having to keep your allies happy if you want to travel through their lands would be a good mechanic
Great vid!
I play games from both developers. One isn't really "better" than the other. They offer differing perspectives, which actually complement each other in my opinion. They both make high quality games that are enjoyable as well as replayable.
I think you mixed together ck3 and eu4 when talking about the pope in the ck3 segment at the start. Other than that this was a really good video
so imagine paradox and creative assembly working together for making a new medieval era game, so i think that would be the best strategy game ever
Great work as always brother. Honestly that is what I was going for a lot with the Ultimate 12 turns per year, and Ultimate Collection, trying to add the depth of a paradox campaign to the campaign or strategic layer of Rome Total War. It's always been my DREAM to get a mesh of Paradox Level Depth, with Total War Style grand battles. You should check out a game called Hegemony III, it takes place during the Rise of the Roman Republic, and pretty well encompasses Italy, but there is an amazing mod for it called Classical World 9, And it adds a large Total war sized map, from Spain to Mesopotamia it has the grand map we're used to seeing with say total war titles. But the best part about the game is it's unified strategic and real time layers. At any point on the map, at any time, you can zoom in and go from a beautiful Campaign Map or Strategic Layer, down to a real time layer where you can maneuver your troops around, build out your cities, and not just during a battle like Total War, at any time, in any place, you can zoom down to a real time layer. It adds a TON of depth to the military side of things being able to do this. So often even with our best modding efforts, but past Rome 1 and even getting a battle field that represents what you saw on teh strategic layer is hard, thus removing terrain, often weather, and other key elements to ancient warfare from consideration. But with Hegemony III's seamless (there are literally no loading screens between the layers, ever) integration of the strategic and real time layers you will be doing things like scouting potential battlefields, maximizing your use of terrain to give you an advantage, you can set up so much better and move around so much better. For instance find the perfect battle field, entice your enemy to come to the location you've chosen, and put up your battle line. When they attack, move some troops you had hiding in those woods over there Hannibal style for the hammer to the anvil. Opening up the Strat and Real time layers is the future, I hope, as it adds a ton of depth. Manor Lords is a game in development now, that supposedly unites the Strategic and real time layers and even lets you get down into actual city building like you would in say banished or games like that. So I'm very excited for that title to drop.
My Favorite Total War is Rome II, My favorite Paradox Title is Imperator Rome.
I do like the details of paradox but if i have to choose between battles on the battle field or 2d boxed windows I'm goin for the 3d battles.
The closest CA has gotten to the paradox map is 3K’s diplomacy and some Rome Remastered mods. A program that ties Rome Remastered to CK3 or Imperator Rome would be amazing. I specify Rome Remastered because it’s the most moddable game in the series.
They did it to Bannerlord and it's amazing.
@@barkinpeker1907 I hope Crusader Blade gets updated soon
I do believe that paradox tends to listen more to their fans while Creative Assembly may not and may give up on improving the game
You have a very good point here
Looking at rest of gaming industry, they both listen to their fans very much. It's not like e.g. Nintendo, copyright-striking people for playing their music.
Yeah, CA has some issues there, they don't like content creators who give harsh criticism, like TLTW
Man this has made me realise that I need to play more paradox games.
Total war feels so safe because I don’t need to stress over what decisions I make because if worst comes to worst you can beat the ai in a pitch battle without difficulty, even outnumbered.
Whereas from what I see, paradox games add weight to everything and really makes it feel like you are deciding on different policies and laws that could change your country.
You don't know proper terror until you're bordering the ottomans, they've got claims on you and you're about to go bankrupt/get a disaster. There isn't any total war game that can match that :P
I wish one of them made a game with a deep world map and mechanics along with real time battles. An eu game but with real time battles would be amazing.
Sadly CA games are headed in the opposite direction, they are dumbing down their games to appeal to a wider audience :/
Agreed!
Yeah, I wish they would just allow you to deactivate some of the more advanced features for people who only care about the battles. I crave both and miss one or the other when I player either game.
i mean tbh i dont think total war games have ever been that complex med 2 and rome total war are pretty simple and i think some of the newer games actually have more complex campaign mechanics like three kingdoms. Diplomacy straight up dosent even work in those old games, everyone that borders you in medieval 2 attacks. Warhammer though yeah thats very simple. I think if you've wanted really complex mechaincs even in the old games you would have to go to mods.
@@jaredmccain7555 Agreed. People keep bringing up the 'oh the TW games are so dumbed down now'... I mean, what games are they refering too? Rome1? That was hardly renown for it's complexities. Modern TW games have simply replaced superficial depth with actual breadth of features.
Coming from a background in rts, I'd like to say it could be worse when it comes to lack of depth. You could have them abstract the upkeep of armies to a set number of levels instead of a granular number based on number and quality of troops. That and, at least from what I've seen of Warhammer Total War, they've went all out on different faction abilities and mechanics.
A lot of us are too dumb and lazy to get into paradox games, I'm sure I would adore it if I somehow got through learning it
I like both. For a game it is better to focus on certain aspects of the strategy rather than trying to simulate all. Yes, e.g. EU4 or CK3 could take a slice of tactical battles from TW series. And indeed TW series could look more into diplomatic and trade relations with a chain of supply etc.
But at a certain point you reach a situation where the player may get stressed out by so many possibilities and need to do things. For Multiplayer it could only work in RT, otherwise the other players will spend a lot of time just waiting for others to complete their move. This waiting is my biggest gripe when trying to play a campaign in TW Multiplayer. So in total I prefer Paradox as Grand Strategy.
There are a couple of images in the video that makes it look like you are playing a medieval style mod for Rome Remastered. Which mod is that?
Not really related to the purpose of your video, I know, but I was curious when I saw William of Normandy in the Rome Remastered interface.
Its Chivalry Remastered :)
I love Total War and Paradox games, but they scratch separate itches for me. I too would love a total war/ paradox hybrid, but each game would take a really long time to play through. A full play through of a EU4 game takes like 25-30 hours for me, so that would likely double if I could play the battles too.
Do we have any game like RTW about East Asia?
In terms of quality and historical immersion I would drop Total War in a flash for Paradox games, except that the reward for effort ratio is too far skewed towards effort for my liking. If Paradox were to add a real time or turn-based/tabletop style tactical battle option to their games, even as a DLC, that reward for effort ratio would be far, far more attractive (hint hint, Paradox...DO IT).
Would you say Crusaders Kings III is the best or among the best historical titles in Paradox? Im new into Paradox
CK2 is free so give that a whirl first, CK3 is ok but not amazing. Most will say CK2 is better. That being said if you play with mods CK3 does feel more polished and fun overall
I like Paradox games just the way they are (Stellaris in particular to me) and if a big AAA developer company took something like Realpolitiks and expanded that geopolitical style game map and made something akin to either TW battles or another good strategy game style for battles and then maybe used TW3Ks timeline start date idea added into it, that would be a cool new, unique blend of grand strategy / geopolitical / real time battles game and probably quite fresh if done right as well, would be amazingly good. 👍
That's why I have high hopes for Knights of Honour 2. Hopefully the game will finally came out this year and will shake a little bit this stale market.
pro tip: play Rome TW with VH/VH and huge unit number as a side effect of this configuration and the population mechanic (every unit trained will be substracted from the city population), You will learn to appreciate peace or bloodless wins and you will save your troops. best factions to suck with this: Macedonia, Seleucids.
On 3:18 your footage of MTW2 looked so good. Is that a mod or something?
That was actually Rome Remastered with the Chivalry Medieval mod :)
@@TheTerminatorGaming oh wow! Good to know, Thanks!
Paradox commit to grand strategy and make it unbelievably varied and replayable. Total war leans into grand strategy but havn't managed to find a way to build on the simplicity and elegance of medieval 2 for a few reasons.
1: The Ai: so much of the creative freedom such as unrestricted town building, multiple, non general armies, region swapping, family hostages, etc have all been severly restricted because the AI was too shit to handle it properly so, instead of trying to improve the AI, they went the easy route and restricted everything.
2: Political intrigue and family trees/character development is so overly convoluted and has no real long term impact except to annoy you with (-1000 gold this turn or -10 public order in provinces). It is a half assed approach to try and generate grand map drama but it's mostly stupid and shallow.
3: Tech trees. Don't even. The amount of +2 to worldwide food or +5% to lumber generation in gaul, or -3% corruption techs are fucking boring and tedious. Medieval 2 tech tree was integrated into city growth and buildings. It was perfect and organic.
4: Battles suck ass. Rome 2 is the last TW game that actually tries to involve a bit of detail in the battles. Attila onwards dont even have animations for archers unqivering an arrow and drawing the string back. Everything feels so flaccid and spreadsheeted rather than physics simulated (i know it wasnt a pure physics sim in medieval 2 but they tried their best) and the Warscape engine isnt an excuse (Shogun 2 had meaty feeling battles). AI is awful and doesnt even know what a flank is in Rome 2 onwards. Warhammer battles play like MOBAS and RTS base build games now where you have to micro unit abilities so hard in order to get the unit to function properly. It's tedious to look at and to play.
Paradox games are way better at what they do than total war is at what it does. If paradox implemented proper real time battles with morale, terrain, flanking etc. I would never touch total war again.
Paradox games are just a half-assed attempt at a choose your own adventure political drama. Convoluted and pointless diplomacy mechanics that have little to no effect on your actual growth. Lack of depth with battles. No real objective or interesting story go with campaigns. Boring and unengaging.
Total war keeps you on your toes with a challenging growth system while trying to defend territories. Never touching a paradox game again.
@@eric8275🤡
Bet you didn't even play 10 hours of any paradox game. Just opened the map, got intimidated and turned off the computer. Otherwise you wouldn't be writing your little nonsensical opus
@@AEH-df7ho Playing more hours would make me hate the games more. So many better games out there. Keep crying kid. 🤣
I think one of the major reasons Total War feels so much worse than paradox is that there is too much freedom without substance, Many paradox games have world changing events that the player has to react to along with the ai, while total war every event is local or very meaningless and the world events they do have the ai usually ignores and its a player problem not a world problem
i am new to paradox grand strategy i have most of them crusader kings 3 , Europa universlis 4 , hearts of Iron 4 and sterallis but i am playing them just in 5 past month and getting lto love them all but they are hard 😅😅😅. but i am learning and total war i am playing total war for 10 years
I like Paradox for it's scale and economy management, it often goes more in depth how the citizens feel in a region and lets you play as different groups almost down to city states. Total War has been limited on who you can play as at times and it usually focuses on a specific region and important factions, example Medieval/Rome share the same map and have some big players picked out, but you don't get to play as China or India, even Empire is very selective compared to Europe Universales . The live massive scale battles are a big seller of their games, I always wish Paradox had more involved combat or a better sense of the depth going on. When you pick up a Total War fight you quickly know the purpose of each unit and can place them as you wish.
There probably won't be a WWII Total War game and while Paradox's take on Rome would be interesting, they seem to get more mileage from Crusader Kings' family murders to secure a wide kingdom and ruin it how you want.
Man, who would've thought that games called Medieval Total War and Rome Total War would have a focus on Europe. What I personally dislike is the inability to play in West Africa in Shogun 2
@@godlymoose9118 The medieval era includes Europe, north Africa, the Middle East and most of Asia.
@@jessiemeisenheimer8675 all of those regions are included except for China, because that would remove the mid to late game threats that are the Mongols and Timurids. Medieval is also a European word and term for that period of time, why can't I play as a European or Middle Eastern nation in Three Kingdoms?
i want a game where u can make ur own borders instaid of already made states like u can make borders straight or make werid borders
there is a mod with the new ck game i think where you normally play the game but fight the battles in bannerlord
Not on steam doh and I'm too Stoopid to mod elsewhere
@@zachzane14 well i think if it gets popular enough it will find its way onto steam
I work in accountancy, I move numbers around all day all the Paradox games I have tried are like work. I just want a bit of fun fighting battles, Attila gives me enough of the micro management stuff. For those that say Paradox games are about grand strategy, I would say Napoleon, Alexander and all the other greats tried to manouver their opponents into fighting one big battle so they could wipe out the oppositions leadership and buerocrats and replace them with their own, I doubt if they bothered too much with the stuff that Paradox spends all of its time doing. At the end of the day its personal preference, for me Total War by far, but they badly need some new games, and its not as if the modders have not shown the way, so come on CA.
I've never been into Paradox games. The learning curve is too steep, in my opinion. I'll stick to Civ and Age Of Empires when I want an alternative to Total war. But it's no doubt that Paradox has the historical strategies on lock right now.
They're worth the curve, if only their "wars" were interactive.
“On lock “ but has never played the games. Stfu
Just say you are typical po po redditor who is bothered about learning a game.
Not much of a learning curve.
You just lack confidence because you a noob.
I have a dream that one day I'll graduate from FPS to learning how to play these games.
basically:
tactical strategy
vs
Deep overall strategy
I play games from both companies and they all have their own charms.
Something you also have to take into account is the multiplayer RTS battles in total war, which is a big draw for me as playing against the AI doesn't give me much of a challenge. To me, total war feels like a time portal into the eyes of Napoleon as he swept the fields of Austerlitz, or into the eyes of Julius Caesar when he invaded Gaul. The battles in total war (the historical titles anyway) just feel so grand and elegant, then combine that with the fact that you control an army in that battle and it feels amazing. In my opinion, there is nothing that paradox can do to change that, and that is why total war is better.
Gae
@@CoCo-tq9vf You're gay? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 That explains a lot.
this is a quick and short choice for players:
If you want to build a sand castle then look at the wave wash it it down, the Paradox games cuz when your dynasty ruler dies, everything breaks apart and you have to conquer all over again.
If you want to build the sand castle and let it stand for many years, then Total war, cuz when you conquer all of the world it won't break apart.
The best comparison that I've ever seen. Great job
Thank you! :)
GTA vs FIFA whic one is better ? They are both video games
I like paradox more just because their game is A LOT more mod friendly, all of their titles is fully modable, from minor tweaks to total overhaul. While Total War series.... Not so much.
Depends how back in time you go in the series. but every total war gets at the very least mechanics overhauls, unit roster expansions and completely new start dates as a bare minimum in terms of avaiable mods. Modding is critical in titles like Three Kingdoms or Attila which have some mods with extensive scripting that include new or enhance current mechanics. Anything before and including Shogun 2 is totally moddable thanks to community tools and advancements. Medieval 2 has porobably reached peak modding and depth.
i love both but i think ck3 should have turnbased battles similar to age of wonders 3 .
right now the battles are pretty much the bigger army wins and absolutely no tactics involved when history shows that smaller armies and weaker armies have pulled off amazing victories because their leader used superior tactics, thats what i wish for ck3.
I want a game that has the movement and time as hoi4 and the combat system of total war
The problem with both games however is that late game snowball feel. Paradox just gets boring and TW can feel like a chore almost once you hit critical mass, I think TW is better in that arena tho cuz every nation has at least one full size army for you to fight
Inaccurate, paradox games have too many paths and ways to succeed which never makes it boring, meanwhile the TW games are just "train, build, attack = win", replayability in tw games is poor af.
@@CoCo-tq9vf I play both tho but when you reached the end game point of the campaign, in paradox games is getting too boring for me meanwhile the total war in the other hand give you excitement which is I don't get in paradox games.
@@CoCo-tq9vf Innacurate. Paradox games are just boring choose your own adventure diplomacy stories. TW have a sense of challenge and excitement with battles. Paradox games are terrible and shallow af.
@@eric8275 nice opinion
@@CoCo-tq9vf Nice embarassment. 🤣🤣
what mod for empire is that you playing?
Either ETW2 or Darthmod
As someone who plays both, Paradox is far better as a "Strategy" game. The campaign and scope is far more impressive. CA have the RTS battles which are obviously brilliant, but limited AI and similar unit types means late game battles I have had enough of them.
As someone who played both, CA is way better in every way than Paradox. Better diplomacy mechanics, better economic growth systems and of course better unit management. Paradox can't seem to get the grasp of proper UI and layout. They're too busy copying ideas off of other games and trying to implement way too many things that never work.
@@eric8275 How does TW games have more in-depth economic, diplomatic and technological mechanics compared to the likes of Eu4, Stellaris or Victoria? And then there are HoI4 and CK, both with more depth that your average Total War.
Don't get me wrong, I love TW games, but their strength isn't in mechanic depth. They are all focused around the real time battles, which is completely different from what Paradox games are aiming for.
@@user-dr6bc4jc8y Games like Eu4 and CK are terrible in design. Worst than your average strategy game. Possibly the worst UI I've ever seen in any game. Mechanically, TW is able to play their diplomacy mechanics that affect combat. CK is all about making your own political drama.
CA and Paradox came together it would look like Knights of Honor
Personally I don't generally consider Total War games Grand Strategy. Not because they aren't, if you consider the campaign central it is. But personally, the Campaign to me is just a reason for the battles to take place, nothing more. The mechanics for factions, economies etc are there to enable your real time battles, which makes it more of an RTS than Grand Strategy (these aren't mutually exclusive of course). PDX Games are the opposite, the entire map is the game not the battles, and you are encouraged to pause and consider your options, which personally means to me that PDX games are more Grand Strategy than RTS (both these games classify as both genres, but one is more than the other on either side). So like why compare them? They're not even on the same wavelength.
Usually would say Total war but after warhamemer 3 came out and the way the community managers have treated their fans. Paradox is #1 now.
i just want a game right in the middle
I also feel like that in paradox battles have no meaning, you are just essentially just painting the map. While in total war you have massive battles that you remember. You could play Carthage and seige Rome and get the little gold swords thing and always be reminded of it during your campaign
I still remember losing my best character ever, Cornelius the Great, in the OG Rome: TW. He was sadly killed by a wayward onager in the battle of Apollonia. I still remember the camera cut to his death. May he rest in peace. o7
@@zachzane14 this is exactly why total war battles are so special
I think paradox has a step up from total war because paradox historical games go from beginning of history all the way to the end of world war 2 and total war hasn’t figured out a way to move past empire total war so it’s like the same kind of fighting in each new game just a different time period that doesn’t go beyond empire love to play total war games though but just wish they’d move forward in history if they did go all the way to the end of world war 2 I think total war might win it.
All depends on my mood, I've gone back and forth many a time
I want play game like both
These will improve the campaign side of things for Total War historical titles:
1. Region trading
2. Military, diplomatic and saboteur schemes
3. More provinces and building slots
4. More recorded events and historical progression
5. Ultimatum and casus belli
6. Annexation ( citizenship, vassalage )
7. Individual war coordination
This is provided that CA doesn’t give all of this to Warhammer first and give a more terrible version of these changes to the other titles.
Im still sooo happy to see mentioning TW:Troy i love it always could be better missing some stuff from previous games but still its TROY!.. for battles i have TW:rome2, attila& not working Troy itself😅
For deep diplomacy etc.. got HoI4,stellaris
The advantage that tw has is that it definitely has the potential of offering the depth of strategic game play paradox games offer without loosing the battle element. In a future game, maybe even the next, with mods enabled I could see it happening.
True, the potential is there. Hopefully it happens
imagine a Paradox map with total war battles
My take is total war emphasizes total war. Okay the campaign mechanics are designed around factions that are engaged in total war. You’re basically always a military leader directing your generals to victory. Sometimes there are advisors for economics and diplomacy but all of that directly serves military expansion. You’ll love total war if you only go for domination victory in CIVILIZATION games.
In a way, Paradox has ruined strategy for me. Because after CK, Vicky and EU, all other strategy games or strategic layers in games feel shallow to me, even hallmark franchises like Civ. Before Paradox, TW was my main go to strategy franchise, because of the battles. TW still intrigues me because of that, even if the strategic element feels uderwhelming to me now. SO, like other commenters have suggested, a merger of these game concepts is the only way either can be improved
Yes
Has playing grand strategy games helped any of you better understand and track real-world events?
yes
Imagine combined best elements from those two, grand real life battles, and immense grand strategy with Paradox economy, diplomacy, and management systems.
Yes.
Yes. Next question? Oh, and give me Stellaris for the best Paradox game.
At this point, I'm not sure CA is even listening to their fanbase when they make games.
I've tried my damnedest to have fun with the Crusader Kings franchise and just never did. Meanwhile I've put in who knows how many hours in to every total war game and had a blast each time.
If I could play a battle in Paradox games like in Total War there would be no need for Total War
Paradox & Total War should team up to make a game.
Paradox grand strategy meets Total War battles.
Well at least paradox support their games with expansions to the point where it's kinda costy vs the CA pump and dump approach.
eh, personally I like CAs dlcs more than PIs because CAs dlcs are more new campaigns or factions, and while some of those factions do bring new units for other factions, you can ignore them, but with PIs dlcs you have to get them because otherwise you are literally miss out on shit that just fixes the game and removes dumb shit, like half of the DLCs for EUIV add mechanics that should've been base game
So, you' re comparing a wheel and a building block... :P
I feel like manor lords might be a mix of both paradox and total war style games.
You cannot play Pope in Vanilla CK 3 without mods actually
I think you can only compare the two to a certain extent, since they are fundamentally different. Imo TW is not 100% in the Grand Strategy genre, but it's rather a mix of RTS, Turn Based and Grand Strategy and that's what makes the formula so unique and appealing, especially in the early era when there was TW, Age of Empires, Civilization and not much else (PDX games were obscure, hardcore and still unripe). PDX games deliver a better Grand Strategy experience just because they are pure Grand Strategy games.
Also, when comparing the two studios, one should consider that PDX is on a totally different page when it comes to the care and effort they put in their games. CA has been releasing crap, buggy, half-finished games since Empire, selling out the soul of the series and alienating a large chunk of the fan base. PDX, on the other hand, puts a real effort in nurturing their games, patching and expanding them for years after release, constantly improving and fixing them and they also developed a better relationship with their fanbase, by mostly staying true to them.
For me PDX games are a way better experience not for the mechanics or the genre, but because you can feel the dev's love and craft in fine tuning a great strategy gaming and immersion experience, while most CA games after M2TW feel cold, rushed and streamlined, just another blockbuster whos only purpose to sell as much as possible.
Paradox for in-depth strategy, long-term planning and better and more realistic flow of time, Total War for tactical detailed thinking and battles.
The answer is simple. Both.
Play a total war campaign and a ck one as the same faction.
The big flaw you didn’t mention with paradox is that 90% of the content that should already be in the game is locked behind a paywall. And is frustrating and really ridiculous. as someone who got into HoI3 having bought the game on a discount, I was shocked when I found out how barebones the game felt not knowing that the content that should already be in the game(faction sprites etc, etc,) where locked behind a paywall like really paradox!? You don’t have that problem with total war games as dlcs for those games don’t hinder your enjoyment or playability of the base game as they are just complementary to the base games.
At the end of the day total war and paradox can both agree stellaris is awesome
There is no one out there that can beat The Total War series. The end.
Nope, simply because of battles, maps and poktics are great but after an hour it just gets tedious. You need a battle or so in between to change it up
I feel like paradox's campaign is a bit too deep and tw's is a bit too shallow (they're improving though), I end up sticking to tw because the battles are fun
Making the jump from Rome 2 to Atilla and Three Kingdoms makes me feel like enough of an idiot 😂
TW always had 2 dealbreakers for me. 1) tactical AI is just always much worse than the average player. So you steamroll with hammer and anvil and quickly dominate the game. 2) its unrealistic to have so much control in a battle. Historically a general just prepared a plan with his officers and then watched from a hill and hoped for the best. There was no real battlefield communication other than the odd messenger or flag signal. Was a huge TW fan as a kid, but nowadays. Nah. Unimmersive.
It’s like you should play Paradox - up to the point where diplomacy FAILS and you switch to Total War - then the outcome plops you back into Paradox to pick up the pieces… like HISTORY!
PARA!!!
I love both.
That said if TW could figure out their late game (super factions, doom stacks ect.) It would be my preferred game
Completely agree. Not an easy problem to solve unfortunately
@@TheTerminatorGaming totally agree my dude
Completely different styles of games, same category maybe but the style and end goal is waaay different. Ridiculous to even say which one is better, there is a time and place for everything.
I've sunk thousands of hours over the past 23 years into both, but I have to give it to Total War, particularly M2TW/Empire/NTW...before all the newer 💩 came out with zero physics, bugs, and sucky battle animations...I have Shogun II, Attila, RTWII, and I just couldn't...really tried. I'm in that CIV3 to CIV4 "wtf is this cartoon 💩?" phase with Total War lately. Do I wish the series would emulate the layered, dynastic politics and roleplay of Paradox at times...absolutely...but nothing within Paradox ever really came close, except maybe Stellaris, in which I've been transfixed on the tactical engagement that could determine the fate of a strategic campaign. At least I'm not waiting and fast-forwarding the 💩 out of time for a GD event like a mind-numbing, dice-determined siege to finally conclude in EU4. Meanwhile, CK2/3 gave me the sense that I had some role in the character, realm, and narrative outcome...loved it.
Paradox is more about politics and Total War is more about war
You can’t play as the pope in ck3 lol unless you download the mod
Total war isn't a grand strategy game imo, it's an RTS unit battler with turn based campaign in between
To me, Total War games aren’t strategy games, they are tactical games which give you control over the day to day actions of building an army and then taking them into battle. A strategy game would be one where you control the greater focus of your faction and you would take what intelligence you have gathered to create a larger plan. This really isn’t the focus of Total War games, they are more like army management sims. I prefer Paradox games mostly because you are in control of a full faction, not just the army and it gives me far more immersion then just fighting battles and controlling the army.
So paradox should just start putting TW style battles in their games and voila😎
Paradox all the way
Total war. There. I answered it
Total war games are tactics game, paradox games are strategy games.