CK3 Has a Massive DLC Problem…
Vložit
- čas přidán 15. 04. 2024
- It is no small secret that Crusader Kings 3 and Paradox as of late have been aggressively pushing season passes in the form of 'Chapters', but I wanted to talk about why this approach may be more damaging than players think, and reflect on the current lineup of DLC that CK3 has to offer, with speculation on where we could go next
- Hry
Hope you liked the video! I spent a fair amount of time editing it, so let me know if you like the new changes!
Whether or not you’re new to the channel, I have a poll up in the community tab where you can vote on the next topic I cover!
CK3 doesn't have a DLC problem, it has a price problem.
Elder Kings added Argonians, Kahjiit, and Lilmothiit. There is no comparison
like all current paradox games
It has both. The DLCs are both overpriced and inconsequential or annoying.
It has both, these DLCs arent worth to be in free update even, especially the flavour packs, i didnt know how half assed and low quality they are until legacy of persia
yep half of the dlc is free and it costs 30 euro or 20
My biggest issues with those dlc is insane prices for bad dlc, LoD should be like 5 dollars with how little it ad
Legend of the Dead is one of the best DLC released for CKIII, it adds both difficulty and more roleplay, things that players asked for, as well as the plague mechanic return that was long awaited. As for Road to Power, it will drastically increase the storytelling possibilities AND make the Byzantium actually unic (one of the most played region I believe). Playing as unlanded is MASSIVE.
@@AtreidesIV🤓
@@MalcolmJCowieWe get it you're cool, but is he actually wrong?
@@MalcolmJCowie Okay? And?
@@AtreidesIV "More roleplay" with every plague getting the exact same 6 events and the player being forced to click one option in all of them regardless of stress (if they can afford the gold) just so they don't have to self-sabotage their realm
The real issue to me is that the community can make better content than paradox.
The dlc can barely compare to mods, and some dlc are just click button for mild modifier.
I mean, barely anyone actually plays vanilla. Most people only use the games as a base to play popular mods. HOI4 is a clear example of that.
@@saffron1627 I agree, but then why do we need paradox?
And how can a guy in his basement modding in his spare time recreate the game and add so much content while a multimillion company puts out “click button for a 5% fertility buff” dlc?
@@ernimuja6991 Because "the guy in his basement" doesn't have the time and resources that PDX does. Also, there's a reason why PDX itself has been hiring former modders as devs for their games in the last years.
@@saffron1627 they hire modders so that the modders stop making them look bad
Imo there exists a problem with mod vs dlc comparisons. Because they often try to insinuate that game devs are screwing ppl over. When in reality they just outline how unappreciated most mod creators are
They often get treated by users like they are on payroll when they are not. And when they create something on the level of DLC(which clearly has monetary value because ppl buy it) chances are they still won’t be able to monetise it and make a career out of it because of stigma around paid mods
It’s hard to not fall to the FOMO, but I only buy Paradox DLC during 50% or more off Steam sales. Paradox knows the kind of community they have. Generally more disposable income than the average gamer. Therefore they continue to do this because they get away with it.
Thats right. Only us rich chads get to play ck3. Only real lords even. In fact id say if you’re not a real life duke at least, you should stick to peasant games within your lane. Like fortnite.
@@Eay89 exactly!
@@saosaoldian6742I’m glad we agree
@@Eay89increased the rent for all single mothers of 3 just to afford the dlc. Worth it
@@Eay89in all fairness, fortnite has some of its own lords 😂
I played CK3 when it first came out and it was decently enjoyable, I stopped playing a little after the first 2 DLC's and after character creation had been added.
I think the big mistake that Paradox is making with the DLC is that nobody wants to pay for each culture to be fleshed out more, one at a time, it makes all the other cultures feel more lackluster by comparison.
Instead they should sell DLC that impacts the game mechanics no matter who or how you play, and flesh out the cultures as part of the free updates to keep up player retention and attract new players.
I'd bet a nut that they're not thinking this strategically about their release schedule, which is the platonic form of irony.
I have to say that I picked them game back up and I have been loving it so far. I have got a lot of the new DLC but only what was included in a large bundle.
I haven't interacted with the fate of Iberia or the Iranian Intermezzo yet but tours & tournaments is actually really good in my opinion and the steam workshop mods really allow you to do a lot.
I must say though that getting the game into a stable state to play was no small task and I had to download cryo utilities on my steam deck as by the default settings the steam deck uses RAM in the most inefficient and self destructive way possible. But it is technically capable of running the game if you force it to allocate RAM properly.
Uh they used to do that and everyone hated it.
Yes everyone hated it in CK2 because you needed DLC's to even play some religions and governement forms, but its not an Excuse CK3 should have because it litteraly sought to build upon the foundation the final version CK2 left behind
@@WackyIraqi777
The problem is not as many say that it is too expensive or that modders do it better etc. it's that the dlcs do not add anything substantial. They only plaster over the pretty bare bones mechanical structure of the game with events, which was badly written at that. The way it now goes is that after a new dlc is released you click through the new events and are then again left with the same basic structure with nothing challenging or satisfying happening. The gameplay loop is the same for the whole duration of the game and is not very deep. The dlcs need to stop adding flavour and work on the core gameplay loop and make the game deeper not wider
Thank you, noticed them start doing this with stellaris a while back, each DLC felt like it was just adding surface level content, meanwhile the actual substance of the game was decaying and breaking apart (the late game of Stellaris is bearly functional right now, and it is fairly common for players to need to open the Command Console to fix broken late game crisis), but does paradox do anything to fix the piling brokenness of the late game, add internal empire management, add new core mechanics like trade, flesh out the diplomacy system? no they just produce three more DLC that add some flavour text, some new alien skins, and a few new traits that don't do anything unique.
It would help if mechanics from DLCs were not completely isolated from the rest of the game and other DLCs. I understand why, it would break the game if you only owned some of them, but this way they'll never be able to do any substantial rework or addition.
I only want 3 more DLC’s:
- Asia Expansion
- Trading System
- More playable goverments
There is a great mod that expanda the map to China
From the first day of its release i want this fr.
I remember some youtubers were complaining about the dlcs of paradox games a year ago. Then they got like "branded" and inmediately changed their attitude into positive for new paradox content.
Add a 4th, an actual crusade DLC that expands and improves on the entire mechanic.
I know I don't want an Asia expansion because they'll definitely half ass it and not do the region justice for its rich history.
Meanwhile everyone is getting excited for EU5 while EU4 is still somehow getting MORE DLC (seriously how much DLC does that game need) and EU5 will be the same all over again.
The most recent Hoi4 DLC for South America wasn’t received well by many and seemed of lower quality in places.
Who knows what’s happening with Victoria 3 anymore. Not to mind Cities Skylines 2 and that whole fiasco.
Look, Paradox needs money if they are to continue updating their games, but overpriced lacklustre DLCs is not the way forward.
Like so many other products being turned into services with streaming/subscription services, so you never end up owning the DLCs you foul pay hundreds for.
These games when they’re good are great and can spend hundreds of hours in them but I’m getting really fed up and less and less people will be giving Paradox their hard earned money.
If they are to do DLCs they should enhance the base game whilst still not causing the base game to be a buggy unplayable mess or rely on other DLCs. Content of DLCs should be clearly explained and kept up to date with any changes. People don’t like being scammed and this makes Paradox look worse in the wrong run.
Some tin foil hat wearing part of me almost believes they actually lower the quality of DLCs intentionally so as to sabotage the replayability of their older, less profitable titles in order to herd their customers towards their newer releases.
I genuinely would not put it past a publisher that has historically simply abandoned games in a completely broken state once they don't generate enough revenue through their equally broken DLC anymore.
They are just trying to push subscriptions on everyone. "You can bypass the $300 worth of dlc if you subscribe for a monthly fee."
Tbh DLC for older Paradox games is less of an add-on and more a continued fee for keeping up the support for the game. So if you didn’t buy it then it was safer to stay on a previous game version
With newer games like CK3 DLCs really act like DLCs since the core features are still there and the game isn’t unplayable without them
at this point im playing EU4 With Europa expanded
@hdrote9701 no game should have 300 dollars worth of dlc
DLC overabundance make it difficult to start with any PDX game which exists for more than a couple of years, not just CK3; try to start with EU4 now, or HOI4. And playing without DLCs in any of the PDX games doesn't really make sense, as you're missing on crucial features. When I was buying Stellaris a couple years ago I had to spread the cost over several months, and hunt for deals on Humble Bundle or Steam sales to buy everything. Still, their competition is even worse: try to buy Total War Warhammer III now, you need to own two previous games, and dozens of DLCs, the total cost is as expensive as several complete PDX games with DLCs. I spread the process of buying Total War Warhammer franchise for over a year I think, and with recent Creative Assembly drama not sure if it was worth it.
That's said, PDX clearly aims at subscription model, as recent Stellaris subscription shows (which, btw, is quite expensive; in my country it is more expensive than basic tier of Netflix or Spotify). I am sure they'll make a subscription for CK3 too. And PDX games are also available on Game Pass, so you can at least try them there if you are not sure if purchase makes sense for you.
Pirating games is the best
Ck3 is actually pretty good at dlc policy dlc really aren't that essential for the gameplay other than hybridization and activities other dlc are flavor or events pack the base game is playable
@Notphenix for now but try playing base eu4 without dlc. Yeah you get my point.
@@Blossomy77 The difference between the dlc of Ck3 and eu4 (or CK2) is that for the former they are not essentials, for the latter they are. Most of the content in CK3 is added in the free patch whereas for the latter it's in the dlc.
And fir the first commenter, they add the subscription after many years like Ck2, Eu4, HoI4. Which makes it worth it for new player (dont forget to unsubscribe)
So true, I remember some two years ago the subscription still was affordable but somehow they doubled the price among all of the games that have it (CK2 which is just ridiculous, EU4, HOI4)
Paradox,"Buy an unfinished game with dlc worse than the mods."
Actually you can play a Zoroastrian character as some Sassanid character is still here with Zoroastrian secret faith
I thought you had to manually choose a decision to reconvert?
@@4Xtraordinaire yeah when you have a secret faith you have a decision "adopt the secret faith" or something like that allowing you to convert without a big prices
I did that playthrough--it was actually challenging and quite fun.
I was put of by both Crusader Kings III and Cities 2 because, they don't have all the damn features of the previous games, and then they go strat pricing those features as new DLC again.
Paradox relies too heavily on the "Good Will" of Modders & often times their DLC feels either Rushed or hollow.
Insta-sub because I sincerely want more honest reviews like yours that share these same sentiments, & are not just mouthpieces that get promoted by Paradox.
Paradox REALLY needs better management & direction if they're going to slam their fans by calling them toxic ala Cities Skyline's 2 & its disastrous release. It's baffling how Paradox gets glossed over with such shameless behavior that so many other industry giants are getting spit-roasted for.
As a player with an unhealthy obsession with Oblivion, the parallels to Bethesda are uncanny
@@4Xtraordinairelike so uncanny it feels like paradox is mirroring Bethesda’s rise and fall exactly 😂.
All paradox games do this. They release a bare bones unfinished game and after a few years you can buy the actual game for $500.
the reason im still stuck with ck 2, im waiting until they are officially done with EU4 so I can get it my spreadsheet simulator at a reasonable price.
@@feeltheponyor yk... pirate the full game with DLC's for free and only pay for the base game. They deserve the price for the game, they dont for the dozens of overpriced DLC's
To be fair, CK3 seems different. Nearly 4 years and we still don't have some of the major features from the previous game or stuff like new start dates.
@@madness3369 they dont wanna add new start dates as too few people use them, except they were one of the best features of each game
Paradox actually needs some damn competition on the market so that they can't keep selling us slop, or something decent but with a ridiculous price attached to it compared to what it actually adds to the game.
The lack of competition and its consequences have been a disaster for the strategy gaming genre
Paradox as a whole has a DLC problem really. They always churn out tons of small and big DLCs at prices not at all proportional to the content they contain, which make getting the whole game entirely too expensive for anyone who's not either the most hyper-dedicated fan of the game or super duper rich.
Tbh Paradox games have always had the issue that for a complete experience you need many of the DLC. Which kinda makes sense since the devs have an option to either release a game that they will over time expand with DLC’s, keeping the game relevant and allowing players to gradually buy DLC’s. Or the devs can spend like 10 years until the game is “complete” and then release it with a 200$ price tag which for many would be too much for a single purchase. Plus there would be no guarantee that the game wouldn’t just flop like Imperator: Rome
I would argue the situation is improving not deteriorating. Base game of CK3 offers you a lot more than that of CK2. I think many don’t remember that that game not only lacked almost all of its features but also large parts of it’s map without DLC’s.
And other Paradox titles show a similar direction with the recent update to HOI4 adding many of the essential DLC’s to the base experience
The problem is just that actually, you need many DLC's to get the complete experience.
You dont need DLC's as additional content OVER the already complete experience, no you need them to feel like the game is complete.
Its the worst part about the DLC's makes you pay several time the price of the game in order to feel li’e the game is polished, instead of adding content over a complete game which adds favor and additionnal stuff unecessary for the full enjoyment of the game
Recently after Eu4 and imperator Rome, I've refused to buy any more dlc to paradox games or games for that matter, since I refuse to pay 200$ to play a game "with the full content".
Old dlcs still cost a fortune and the games paradox release nowadays feel empty and soulless due to a lack of depth when the game launches.
(Mind you, this isn't just a paradox problem but they, anno and civilization are all blatantly guilty of this practice.)
I really wish they'd implement a system of allowing older dlcs to just come bundled with the base game or make them base game features at this point. Like i would think a 5+ year old dlc should be just base game at this point. Curious to know if anyone else agrees or got a better idea.
Eu 4 is "souless" even with all DLCs... Eu 1 and 2 were historical games. But those damn kids complained that real history is "railroading the game" and "when the game starts history goes out of the window" , so paradox turned Eu 3 in a fantasy game and with soon realized that what customers really want is an empty base game with DLCs to foster which fantasies they like more, so that's how they come with EU 4.
@@Neomalthusiano Not that there isn't room for stuff like that, but even the fantasy in itself feels rather... unfocused? Unmatched? Lacking perhaps?
To me the DLCs all feel like duct tape added to a broken vase to "fix it". But the problem being that the base in itself being pretty bad/bland to begin with.
It would take a tremendous amount of resources to build a game like that... but with a company as experienced as paradox you'd think they'd get the formula right.
*shrug* maybe eu5 would get the balance of fantasy and realism correctly. We'll see once it is out.
You people really create 10 paragraph articles to deal with everything except being poor af. It’s exhausting
I subscribed after i heard the lil cough* before saying "Byzantium"
hey which mod gives those cool camera angles when looking at the map
ck3 became hunt roleplay because I have to accept every invitation to gain 20 prestige and then lose 80 with some dumb plague
Paradox 4X games are a joke. Most people are affected by “fomo” in these games and their decision is pretty much either get every DLC or nothing, not even the game itself.
At this point, Paradox giving away the game for free would be a great marketing decision because 99% of the cost of the game comes from DLCs.
There's a reason why CK2's playerbase was split in half with people playing a total overhaul mod as opposed to the vanilla game. PDX knows modders are going to do better, which is why I think CK3 dlcs are pretty barebones and just integrate new systems (struggles, cultures, adventures, travels, legend seeds) for modders to go crazy on.
It's lazy, they can add 10 struggles as opposed to 2 in a year of development, but I think it's very intentional.
It’s very Bethesda-esque; I always knew Todd had his hands on everything
The moment people realize they are paying full price for a working Alpha build, and then paying subsequent payments for each major update till the game is actually complete.
I want a similar dlc to the jade dragon one was for ck2, something that makes china relevant, with the trade routes being more important as well as potentially effecting an off the map nation, that was a cool concept and I'd welcome something like that again. the problem is i don't think we'd get it as a solid dlc because of how eveything is going with paradox in general. I wish they woul see about doing something like a five year plan, make a dlc, its shelf life become 5 years and when that time is done it gets folded into the game so that the player base can all enjoy its changes, as well as it eventually mean they can touch those mechanics again and fix ones that are potentially broken
They are already did something something similar with HOI4 recently
As for new DLCs, I think it isn’t as bad as you think. Current CK3 DLCs aren’t perfect but they are way above their CK2 equivalents.
The Reaper’s Due might have cost half the price but also had half the features of Legends of the Dead and they weren’t nearly as in-depth.
For a norse experience you wanted The Old Gods and Holy Fury. In CK3 all features of Holy Fury are part if base game. And most of The Old Gods as well. Those missing were added by Northern Lords which also added brand new features. Northern Lords costs 12.99 as opposed to The Old Gods’ 14.99 and Holy Fury’s 19.99
I’ve 2-3k hours in CK2.
I was looking so much forward to CK3… but when I got my hands on it, about 35 hours in, I knew there were more base content than CK2, however it felt soulless. Ofc it wouldn’t have the same amount of content as CK2, but it just felt off, kinda in the same way you interact with AI.
I feel like being more RPG-like is the right way for CK, but it’s in this instance more used as an excuse for giving suboptimal content at a premium price. I like the idea behind Fate of Ibera - terrible execution. The AI don’t know how to deal with it.
CK2s dlc was a lot more impactful, a lot more on the money as well.
I think CK3 is the best of the worst they’ve released post HOI4
Seeing the art, UI and gameplay direction that they took with V3 and CK3, my hopes for EU5--the only their franchise that I care about--to be good are dwindling ever quicker.
Paradox main problem is that they have too much workers for the sales they make. It doesn't sale well enough to not rely on overpriced DLCs to survive.
Paradox problem is a typical bad management problem.
When Paradox DLCs are frequently added to the worst reviewed products on Steam you know there’s a problem. (EU4 Leviathan, some recent Cities 2 pack etc)
I’m still playing ck2 and enjoying it
I tried ck3 and felt it was too empty
Paradox in general has a DLC problem. They package what should have been base game as 5+ DLC, then what should have been 1 expansion as 8+ DLC... and each one is priced at half what they should be worth together.
The biggest thing i miss from ck2 is battle events. Yes you can gain prestige, Marshall perks, and increase weapon and armor fame. But never have I made a friend with a daring charge that wins the battle, never have I had to send my best man to cover a retreat, deciding whether it's the end of him or my army. My lord always leads the army, the prestige is nice but I can't forgive how shallow the battle events seem. It just seems like another day at the office. It's crazy to get the 100 battles boost on an armor, but have no REAL stories from those battles.. (friendships, memories, tapestries about your heroism, parties held in your honor are all ways it could be implemented into existing game mechanics) 🤔
The main difference between games like CK2 vs CK3 is that CK2 you HAD to buy to play with features like Diseases, Muslims, Pagans etc
With CK3 they made all the new basics of the systems free, and if you want more added to that base system, then the DLC is there for you to deepen the already existing system
I will admit that a good chunk of the "New" systems are just CK2 features just more depth and it has taken them ungodly long to add these features. But I have been happy so far with the systems that has been added (Except for strifes)
Don't get me wrong. I think that everyone complaining about DLC do have the right to be pissed, and I don't doubt that the DLC's themselves are too expensive (Especially now with Swedens inflation going back down) compared to the content the DLC itself gives you
The issue is that for me is that these DLC features (Both paid and unpaid) are gonna be used by total conversion mods (Which also at times add more depth to those systems). So I feel happy to buy this DLC if it means that Paradox will continue supporting the game. And therefore by proxy the mods that I enjoy playing like Godherja and Elder Kings 2 continuing being developed
Is that addiction? Possibly
Am I a part of the problem of DLC pricing and content not being fairly balanced? Most likely
It's just how I feel about all of this. If you disagree with me, I don't blame you
I think CK2 is more defensible in that the DLCs for those characters are 1) Incredibly cheap and 2) Less popular because most people play in Europe
Not that locking people out of playing certain characters was acceptable at the time, but I could absolutely see WHY it was done. I don’t like CK3’s approach of ‘updating’ and reselling features
@@4Xtraordinaire I don't particulary enjoy it either, and like I mentioned, my personal motivation to buying them is for modders to continue doing what they do best and take those systems and expand on them with the use of their own TC mods
I would never say CK2's system was more defensible than CK3's. I remember not having that much money, but playing as certain kingdoms REQUIRED me to have certain DLC. Had to beg my parents to buy Old Gods for 15-20 Euro.
I will also say that them selling old features is probably the most popular thing for them to do. Seeing how Legacies and Strifes turned out to be not as enjoyable as they could be and Tours and Tournement is still SUPER unbalanced (Paradox games in general are)
At the end of the day, it is an executive decision that is based on profit. The best thing you can as a customer is if you don't agree with the pricing, then simply do not to buy it until it gets to the price that you want it to be :)
Unfortunately, as a YT channel my soul is shackled to the Paradox paid content machine in order to put out reviews and coverage
It’s just very unbecoming of them to resell previous features. Now, there is something to be said if they are hugely improved upon, but legends was not that
@@4Xtraordinaire Oh yeah, Legends was a big let down sadly :(
I still think you make some great points about CK2 and its gatekeeping that I didn’t initially consider for the video, but its more experimental nature with far out DLC also gives it its own charm (Secret societies, Holy fury), but I’m also biased towards freaky satanic cults and bizarre bloodlines
I’m hoping this is just a bump in the road and we get DLC that has a little something for everyone 🤞
I think the best Option is to play CK3 in Multiplayer. My Boyz and me all buy the DLCs for one Player so the DLC's get shared within the MP Lobby
bro you are amazing you are telling all the point that i told my friends
you are cooking
we need pt2 or a longer video that is 30-40 min
Oh wow almost three years in and ppl are noticing just now
People aren’t ‘just noticing’ - they have a limit and it is starting to crack
@@4Xtraordinaire really? About time i'd say, back in the day if you'd tell the "fans" that their oh so beloved company that loves its customers so much and tries its best to give them the most authentic experience is scamming them by selling them v0.0001 unfinished products and then hopping on on a decades long journey of slowly getting the game to v1.0 by releasing ten gazillion worthless overpriced DLC which all could hv easily been at the release, they would've called you all sorts of names and coped about it like crazy, i'd say pdx fans are getting what they deserve for nvr truly letting the company know that they wont tolerate this shit anymore
The main problem is lack of player interaction! I thought they learned from the success of TT expansion but they went back to ck2 style dlc where its just reacting to events and waiting. Thats not fun. Harm re duction and prevention bybpicking the same optimal dialogue is not fun. Do something special that actually involves some measure of gameplay, player involvement, calculation, something!
Honestly, inflation in the US is noticeable too. Increasing prices have made me think twice about new dlc purchases, not to mention that some of those dlc have been a bit lacking in content
I'm done with Paradox. 15 to 20 bucks for a tiny amount of stuff. Often broken stuff.
I can't believe I bought the base game back then, how naive I was. I was expecting that ck3 would build on the content of ck2 instead of ripping most of it out so they can sell it again over the next decade or so.
Oh wow a black death dlc? Is it 2015 already.
They could have made the best game of all time instead of one that's many years and many good to great dlcs (as opposed to mediocre ones) away from being mechanically superior to ck2.
They never saw any of my money since nor will they ever again. Pdx has zero respect for their playerbase so I have zero respect for their bottom line.
One more thing that annoyed me is they seemed to cater to reddit memelords, at least in the base game, Norse expansion and royal Court - idk what happened afterwards because I stopped following - instead of further fleshing out feudal mechanics and making it a "deeper" simulation.
This trend is hard to avoid, and Paradox is making a lot of profits in CK2 and HOI4 and other same modal games. Don't forget that they've been quietly pushing their own launchers as well as constantly trying to add to the difficulties of keeping players in mod-making. Everything works to lead the player towards subscribing to the game or faithfully buying the DLCs(not mods).
I think the former, getting players to subscribe to games is what paradox is trying to attain.
Bro you cooking. Keep making content, its great!
Thanks, I appreciate it 💜
Spent far too much on DLC on CK2, and they all felt like stuff that was removed from the base game, rather than additions. Won't get stung again!
I think paradox has OVER ALL DLC problem... (500 dolars for game and ALL DLCS)
The problem ist that you have to buy the game every year again to stay updated.
The pricing is beyond insane.
I bought on a sale on my country and I have to say, its impossible to get the DLCs as it is, its terribly expensive even at 50%
(I don’t even have the dlc but just the free mechanics) Legends of the dead turned my game into a pop up simulator with a disease outbreak in Alms 9 pop ups in a row in 6 months of game time. It was unreal
I wish the DLC wasn't more annoying pop-ups with pointless choices and instead introduced or improved on existing features, like economy, etc.
Normies discovering the vile dlc practices of Paradox will never not be funny
Paradox's DLC policies have arguably grown worse since I initially started playing Stellaris in 2016
They were MUCH worse in CK2. At least now they aren't actively trying to nickel and dime you for damn near every religion in game.
Many won’t agree with me, but I can fine those crappy region locked dlcs more defensible as they had a much smaller team
CK2 was still also defining the game at this point - CK1 was not nearly as successful as CK2 which caused growing pains
As someone who started with eu3 back in the day, all of this is just disappointing
I love this game I hope it gets the care it deserves, I only bought tours and royal court since those add some extra details but honestly you can just play the base game with no dlc and have just a good experience in my opinion.
Their model just doesn't work. Instead of releasing a fully realised base game with massive expansions in the pipeline, they choose to release a very bare bones game with nauseating amounts of disjointed DLC; and by disjointed I mean that they don't add to the base game, they add systems that you can effectively ignore after your first playthrough with them. They don't feel integrated, they just feel like more bloat.
The issue Paradox has, which you don't really cover is that they have to balance established CK2 gameplay with new gameplay. CK3 starts with a much larger map, and the ability to play almost any any country. It took 4 expansions in CK2 before we could play as pagans. Or way of life is basically free. So what's the problem? They can't do a 1:1 copy of their Ck2 expansions and they have to come up with new material. Literally exactly like CK2, some of these bomb (sunset invasion) others are wildly popular.
Just thinking about it off the top of my head, I think CK3 did a top notch job making the game more accessible. As someone who had CK2 and all DLC's (I got on a sale) - I played a fair amount of the game but could never master it cause there was so much unique content. CK3 on the other hand, at least for the first few DLC's was a very easy game by comparison. Some of that was pure quality of life such as better interface for character searching, some of it was game design like skill trees, and some was balance changes such as knights being OP or rulers generally living very long (if you didn't throw them into battle while wounded).
Anyway, the point of this word salad, is that CK3 did an excellent job of capturing my interest and making me feel powerful, but it quickly became boring. There was much less beautiful chaos, randomness - in CK3 compared to CK2. And I think that is ultimately a problem with the game itself - and why they feel the need to make such "big" DLC's and steal mechanics from older games. They are trying to capture some of that lost glory.
I hope they can improve, but I'm no longer paying top dollar to be a beta tester. We'll see what the future holds.
They're taking the piss, trying to nudge everyone into the season pass instead of full-price purchasing. XD
I think that the tens of hours of enjoyment I get from a good expansion are well worth a few hours of pay to buy in. That said, I would much rather put money down on a new experience than keep stretching out the same one.
“Also unlike CK2, there is no earlier start date so you cannot play as a Zoroastrian Character unless you convert or create a character which will be very hard in a Shia or Sunni dominated Persia.”
Me Who Downloaded a Mod that Gives Me 1440 Character Creation Points for My Iranian Resurgence Run: “It’s not about the Money, It’s About Sending a Message.”
Plus 867 does have Zoroastrian characters. lol.
In my opinion, the DLC quality is vastly inequal between PDX games.
CK3 is pretty and new player friendly but some much barebone since its debut. The adding content isnt spectacular at all.
Same for vicky 3 which has sadly one of the most flawed basis of any PDX game in my opinion. Brazil - french DLC were quite lackluster has well.
Meanwhile, old games like eu4 and stellaris are getting amazing content. Im quite scared and not hyped at all for eu5, looking at the games that came out recently. I just feel that PDX will not hold to their more ancient titles.
EU4 gets amazing content? Most of their dlc is also garbage....a lot of them are just mission trees for specific nations.
8:00 you can yoink the other culture's technology while getting the best traits of both, seems pretty powerful to me. Unique hybrid traits would be dope tho
My point is that hybrid cultures from a design standpoint aren’t that innovative. Yes, they should absolutely be an option, but you’re just switching around traits. How long does that take to implement dev-wise?
I have 600 hoursin this game and I didn't feel a need to but a single dlc which I am all for tbh. Free updates add a lot and please god don't tell there are people who want content to be hidden behind a pay wall.
Yeah, I dont understand the criticism of this Video. They put all this Content in for free. That is a good thing. And people like me will purchase the DLC simply because I know that they need to pay their devs to work on these free additions.
The biggest thing I've noticed about CK2 vs. CK3 with my 2k hours invested across both is...The lack of community investment in 3 versus 2.
If you look up guides and -especially- the Wikis and compare them between the two, the difference is downright staggering.
This, and the CZcams content creation was and has been consistently weaker in CK3 than CK2. And I have yet to see the community recover, personally.
CK2 quickly transitioned to CK3 which did not give the modding community enough time to continue developing, in my opinion. The player base also quickly migrated, and that resulted in a drop in interest for CK2 as a whole
I have the plague settings etc on the lowest possible, and yet they are constantly appearing.
I'm thinking about naming all my starting characters Marcus Welby MD.
Paradox is the Netflix of game developers, no matter how much they fuck over their customers, gamers keep coming back to feed at their trough. I learned my lesson with Paradox a long time ago and I refuse to buy any of their titles, either developed or published by them. They keep releasing barebone games that are little more than vehicles for selling DLC over the course of a decade and now, as you stated, it seems they are really twisting the screws while also cutting corners. The worst of both worlds.
Factor in how a many reviews for certain expansions don't mesh well with all the other DLCs in the game, as evidenced by some of the reviews for Stellaris' various expansions like Nemesis, and it's just a shitshow. Also I refuse to support them the way they basically abandoned Star Trek: Infinite, a game that should have received far more support for a licensed title.
Paradox does not deserve the popularity it has somehow garnered for itself.
I mean, they only really have 3 options: (1)have a subscription service; (2)current DLC model; (3)release games only every 10-15 years with a 200$ price tag
They choose 1 and 2 because they keep the game relevant longer, make the game price less scary(people are unlikely to spend 3 figures on a single game purchase), allow them to abandon projects that aren’t cost effective(like Imperator:Rome) and offer better player feedback
@@hdrote9701 How about, hear me out, they just release a proper base game with these overlapping features already included and then just release 2-3 major expansions instead of milking the base game for a decade?
If I recall some of the points from the video, a lot of these DLC are reworked mechanics from other DLC so they are cutting corners and re-selling it back to you in the guise of new content. It's just dishonest and greedy.
I don't mind DLC, I think DLC for other games adds value and replayability, but Paradox's business model is utterly exploitative of their player base.
@@therexbellator As a mod creator myself I can tell you that just because a certain feature was in CK2 DLC it doesn’t mean Paradox can just transfer it over. Almost all of the content needs to be created from 0. That is years of work. Yes, some of the ideas might not be too original since they have done smth similar before but as long as it works, why replace it. So they remake it and improve upon it further
Imo it was extremely messed up how they handled early parts of CK2: forcing you to pay 10€ to play muslim characters or 8€ to get lifestyle focuses, since both of those obviously were not just flavour content but core parts of the game.
But with CK3, I can’t say they have been milking something. The game doesn’t lack essential features
I always wonder why they didn't add Nomad government for Nomads. I mean, you already had a flavour pack for Nomads in CK2, why not just carry it over to CK3. They are instead treated almost like a regular sedentary tribe.
Also, regarding royal court, it really feels like they don't put much love in it. Why do Nomadic and Norse kings have throne rooms made out of marble and stone? Why not have a big, decorated tent for Nomads and a wooden longhouse for the Norse?
After buying their games since EU2 they priced me out.
I'm in South America, I can pay 25usd for a dlc here and there, but that money gets me several full games on sale (PDX only does 30% now) thanks to regional pricing (which PDX removed). 😢
Poor
Paradox has had a DLC problem for about a decade. It's just now catching up with them as they release sequels to games they spent that past decade milking to dust.
I had some reason to switch from Vicky 3 to Vicky 3 because I don't car a lot about the war system. With CK I have no reason to switch form a complete CK2 experience with merchant houses, immortal vampires, vikings, african tribes, indian faction, muslim, crusades, mass conversion and tons of mods to a subpar version of the same game with casual mechanics and a lot less content
I feel like Paradox should more ways to invest in your fiefs and other characters, current system of building, upgrading and choosing your focus is simply bland and lacking
Ever since I pirated it I’ve had no issue with the DLC whatsoever.
How do you pirate these games and dlc without viruses?
@@theshoes7488 mostly just trusted community sources
Astral Planes is a psionic expansion? News to me.
It has been almost 4 years, still no Republic 😢
It's Paradox are you surprised
honestly, I have all the DLCs (except the African clothes set) for CK3, and while I agree that they are terribly expensive, I still like the DLCs, Persian Intermezzo was easier than Iberian Struggle and I had more fun playing it.
I don't think the DLCs are of low quality (except maybe those that are just outfit sets.)
"Paradox was still texting how they wantedto go about monetizing ck3".
A few years ago you made a good game and that-s how you earned money. Now they just milk our wallets
after CK2 players have understood: they'll wait a while for the expansions to be there and they'll probably manage to get access to them without spending $500
Im so glad i quit after the first season pass finished with iberia
I knew nothing would change if the next season pass is the same as the first one
And the tournies dlc was kinda a sign on the wall for me
Paradox had a DLC problem for years now
I like the recent DLC, better than Royal Court. I started playing after Northern Lords and only bought that content after playing and enjoying the game.
Bro forgot he was playing a Paradox game 💀
Yeah, fuck PDX. They used to be amazing but they went public and decided to focus on greed. Just like EA, Ubi and others.
The truth is supporting such games over the years is expensive and now even more so than it was 5 or so years ago. I personally don't mind Pdx strategy on CK3 dlcs. I think it's a fair price to pay for each chapter that adds 3 dlcs + 1 cosmetic pack per year and overall the game is good enough to merit this investment from those players who wish to support the game's continuous development.
I always buy them when on sale. 20 euros for an expansion is nuts. I can get a full game like red dead redemption 2
I can't even begin to describe my crushing disappointment of Legends of the Dead. I was so excited at what seemed like an ocean of content, only for it to be a small puddle.
Holy Fury was such an incredible expansion that my hopes were far too high when I saw something reminiscent of bloodlines
@@4Xtraordinaire bloodlines we’re one of my favorite things in ck2. I used to play the “more bloodlines” mod for agot and just collect like a dozen bloodlines creating super humans. Was great. Legends offer nothing but a waste of gold.
@@Nemenon Many such cases!
It was an ocean but most of it was free and I don't see what that a bad thing?
I hoped that legends will be Ck3's bloodlines, however...
One of the big problems is they keep delivering crap nobody needs. Does it add to general flavor? Yes.
But do we need it? NO. Diseases are the actual good addition to play around. However, the legends are yet another resource sink with modifiers. That's it.
What we actually need is a DLC that revolves around warfare, diplomacy and intrigue. Adding MORE ways to play the game, interact and plot. Especially warfare which has been left in dirt in flavor of RPG events.
this feels worse when you remember ck3 announcement we were told "everything in ck2 will be standard in ck3 where we will expand the game further" and... they technically weren't wrong, but it was FREE ck2 in it's end state with no DLCs instead of total game with all dlcs
now ck3 is more of a barebones dynasty simulator rather than a mid dynastic grand strategy but that aint saying much, every game in paradox's ledger started out as a bareboned concept of a game that was less that dog (s)crap and they became mid without DLCs and everyone remembers them fondly when we have 20 DLCs that flesh out every aspect of the game by expanding features to those areas
As much as I dislike CK3, i gotta defend them here, most of the non-fantasy stuff from CK2 (vanilla or DLCs) made it in CK3 vanilla
I really don't get it. How can they sell DLC that weights 70mb, at price of a Hearts of Stone + Blood and Wine together
The sad story is that dlc generates more money than the base game, it's a vicious cycle. Paradox has a loyal fan base and has become accustomed to doing little and earning a lot.
instead of small DLCS for small mechanics
just make a big DLC with a huge mechanic
That was what Legends was supposed to be
"leave behind besiegers" being locked behind DLC is an example of one of most self-defeating monetization types in video games. Self-shooting their own UI in the foot by locking improvements behind a DLC and no one which exact one, so you just buy it until you can one click drop off besiegers, like the fuck why?
people asked for this content as dlc for years and now complain that it was dropped as a dlc and that they have to pay for it smh
People are complaining that it isn't living up to expectations for the 20 dollar price point, which makes deciding to release it a waste of potential
I took one look at the 40$ CAD that Royal Court DLC cost and noped TF out. I can get whole azz AAA games on sale for that price.
Here's my take on the state of CK3:
CK3 has a *lot* of good ideas, and some very good systems that could lead to a lot of things if expanded upon in the future. But the interaction between those systems is somewhat lacking, there's some issues with older events not making sense in context of new content, and probably most importantly most of the additional content not really *changing* the game in any meaningful way.
Yes, diseases can be fun. Except we all just isolate and wait them out; unless an Heir dies or we lose an important alliance it doesn't actually have a meaningful effect. Same with Legitimacy; the bonuses for having lots of it are minor, and even the opinion hits of having negative don't hurt that much (in that unhappy vassals will still be unhappy, and likely would have revolted in any case).
So yes, the systems are fundamentally there, but they feel too..conservative in implementation and consequence.
Yeah. The issue is that all the DLC's add pretty much nothing. The best of them add a couple mediocre mechnics that don't really change anything.
Paradox dlc is more of of a subscription for updates.
If you like talking about DLC, you should look at Rimworld and the DLC it has.
I value my mental wellbeing to some degree
Sail on high seas
victoria 3 pissed me off so much tbh. if they release that update and it's buggy and unpolished like usual, riots.
With regards to Northern Lords, it actually broke the game to a degree thanks to how it unbalanced the power scale in the area. If your culture started with coastal warriors you could overpower any neighbouring domain which made playing anything other than Viking in the area, difficult. It was a vanity pack because the majority of the dev team are Swedish. People still play to this meta now, rushing to hybridise one of the flavours of North Germanic to work Coastal warriors into their lineup. There are many other examples of unbalancing the game. The latest expansion has really upset a lot of people who were excited for plagues but disappointed with how to navigate them. There are a lot of annoying situations that really damage flow. I took a long pause after Legacy of Persia because I had never been more angry with CK3 than I had been then. The Seljuk event just really angered me, I've never picked up my computer chair and thrown in the room before but losing my Kingdom in Persia to the Seljuks helped to flip my lid. I think that Paradox need to take a bit more time on design and actually properly play test these new changes. Legends of the Dead was rushed, so much so that they added another tab to the legends UI to retain legends in one of the subsequent hotfix patches.
The fact that legends evaporated so shortly and it wasn’t even considered by the dev team to extend them is honestly fucking hilarious
I want PLAYABLE REPUBLICS and THEOCRACY
I have CK2 and its DLCs. I have no reason why I should ever buy CK3.