Apple saves Zuck with the Vision Pro!
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- čas přidán 22. 05. 2024
- In this clip, Marques and David discuss the Apple Vision Pro with Hugo Barra!
Watch full episode: • The future of Virtual ...
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I have a pretty accurate answer to the question of why there aren't more native apps for the Vision Pro. I own a pretty reputable VR development studio (Takeaway Reality, shameless plug) and we tried incredibly hard to convince Apple and Unity to give us access to their simulators so that we can develop something for the Vision Pro before it launched. We were always told that "It's coming soon" and then the headset released, and we never got the opportunity to build something. Even now, when the headset has launched, Apple has no program where they would sell us a dev kit in Europe or anything similar. I know other very reputable companies in the industry which have had the same problem. We had to literally send someone to the US to pick up the Vision Pro just to get it. I'm incredibly frustrated by Apple's process, we were all incredibly hyped to build something for the Vision Pro and we just never got the chance because Apple was either too restrictive (or lazy) to just give us access to a Unity plugin (let alone sell us an actual dev kit with the device). I think we're gonna stick with Meta in the longer term, they have their problems, but they do offer a more robust platform and seem to appreciate developers a bit more than Apple in this space.
Arrogance would be their downfall
Is it simply a lack of appreciation, or could it be something else like security related concerns. Having experience with the corporate technology retail space, I am also aware that computers sold in the US are not the same as those in Europe or Asia, and it is NOT just the keyboards and power adapters… US based entities always had to refer clients to an authorized dealer in the specific region requested, if they did not have their own divisions aboard…
Personally, I would never buy this TYPE of product coming from Meta, Google, or Amazon. Who’s knows just how much information they will be able to mine from a user unwittingly giving them access to virtually everything. Even NOW three months in, we have only ever used VP in ONE specific room… If only life’s choices were truly so simple…
When we did have to call AppleCare to solve a relatively minor issue, we took extra precautions to only face a specific blank wall, just in case… The last thing we need, is to have one of these corporations scan everything in our household to complete an incredibly sophisticated visually detailed dossier on our lives and lifestyle…
With great power comes great responsibility…
🤔
You find Apple hard to work with... Are you new to this timeline?
Apple is alpha af. Spits in your face and still people bow down and give them props 😂😂
„It weighs 69 grams“
Marques: Nice
Zack : “Please Please Tim, I will even let you to be on my OnlyFans Premium for free for 1 year!”
Tim : “DEAL”
This is why he gets the big bucks
It seemed like an involuntary response lol
Followed up by a room of straight faces
Sony made the same mistake with the PSVR2. Invested all their money in the hardware but forgot about investing in the developers.
I cannot believe they didn’t figure out how to make it backwards compatible. Absolute madness.
Now they have Horizon OS
Eh VR has let me down over and over again. Nothing compares to half-life alyx in terms of VR gaming. It's not even close. I thought we'd have way more awesome games like that by now, but nah.
It's the Vita all over again. Amazing hardware completely wasted because of a lack of software. God dammit Sony.
@@salifdiarra4906 Yup. Even my old Rift S is an awesome experience and that thing's dated. I thought for sure Valve would publish material on how they crafted such a refined experience, but they never helped other devs do anything.
I totally forgot the Vision Pro exist still until this video
Yep seem like meta getting the attention with its recent updates
yup same, it kind of just died down
The hype died down, it's just become boring now. That being said when it comes to the UK i can't wait to test it in the Apple Store (and not buy it obvs because pricing)
I forgot all about the Quest models before the AVP’s debut.
It’s not much of a statement that you forgot, for a while, about a product you didn’t buy and don’t plan to - especially if you don’t personally know people who have it.
I haven’t forgotten, but that’s not surprising since I use it daily.
It’s the price. It’s pretty steep for a recreational product. Its not an investment
Him: the battery weighs 69 grams
Marques and the rest of us: nice.
When Apple cares, everybody cares. Unless Apple prices their device so out of reach that no one can buy it--and we're back to not caring.
The cost of the device reflects how expensive it is to make
@@ryanjackkay The total BOM of the Vision Pro is about $1,400 dollars. That's it.
@@skyscallcan’t tell if u mean “thats it” positively or negatively. Factor in all the other costs of packaging, $100s of million in R&D/employees and it honestly doesn’t make them THAT much profit..for now
Hmmm, I think the world does care. So many videos of it went viral and everybody knows the Vision Pro, even my 70 y.o. parents heard about it and asked me what that thing is. That was not the case with any of the other VR headsets before.
And Apple must have known that only few people will buy the first generation of it. Just like they know that only few people will buy the Mac Pro that starts at $7000 or 8300€ (just looked it up).
They see it more as a proof of concept and PR device, not a product for the masses.
@@skyscall the headset costs to manufacture $1,542, and that doesn't include the costs of research and development that lasted over 10 years, packaging, marketing, shipping. All other Apple products have 3x more profit margin. It is very well priced
I think the big thing is the price. If it was $1000 or less, more companies might have seen it worth the time and money to make new experiences/apps but at $3500 there is not enough customer to be worth it.
Well yeah, it's basically a really expensive dev kit. With all of the technology in it, it's no surprise it's so expensive. But with each new headset, they will be cheaper and (hopefully) do even more
@@Ryan-tn4gk i keep seeing this that future will be cheaper, but Apple is not really known for cheap prices lol
@@Nighthunt01then maybe the value will go up like the iphone. At first the uses where limited and now the price went up but the value went up more i would say.
Vision Pro is expensive because it's the "pro" version and also because it's targeted at devs, influencers and early adopter enthusiasts, almost like an early access beta. In time they will release a budget and consumer friendly version. Meta did something similar with the Quest Pro (but not as expensive)
@@Nighthunt01 True. But Apple's competitors will absolutely make cheaper devices. My guess the vision 2 will probably be $2000. So cheaper but still expensive for most people. But they want to get down to a glasses like form factor and sell it for around $500-$600. That's going to take years. Just like the first home computers were super expensive back then but eventually it will become cheaper, and now most people can buy a computer today. This is just the first generation
As a dev in Vision pro, the problem right now is Apple is kinda hiding new apps from the store which is making it super hard for new apps to reach in front of users. Apple hasn't update their storefront at all, only few apps get picked per week and its extremely hard you'll be the one in their picks.
Whats your app called?
@@moccamixer Pulse3D - Share Spatial Photos
That’s gotta be insanely frustrating. I’ve found the same problem with finding apps for my Watch Ultra 2. Just finding myself shocked you can’t browse ALL apps somehow, only a weirdly out of date, limited selection picked by Apple. So lame!
@@moccamixer Pulse3D
@@drewtabke3294 so true... That's almost same with even Meta Quest headset, they've limited apps allowed into their Quest store. While tens of thousands of apps are left aside in "App labs"
The end of this video is the real highlight lmao
Amazing that you have Hugo Barra on your podcast. MKBHD is the real deal
FINALY!! Thank you for bringing in a guest
The humane pin catching strays at the end is insane
Awesome interview!!! The ending was perfect 😂😂😂
There is so much real industry information in this clip, I should owe The Studio real money. Great content team, keep it up 🤙
Quest 3 is cool, I use it for daily productivity with some 3D printed mods to make it slimmer and lighter. The 2 things I absolutely HATE is that it outlines your hands when you’re in pass through mode. This is more distracting than anything for fast movements or catching something someone throws at you. Really disorienting actually. And the second is the distortion of your view when you have elements close and far. It seems like it wants to reconstruct your environment in 3D but it actively bends and distorts objects. This straight up needs to be turned off. It actually sucks.
Edit: Yes I know these are minor issues but, that’s how products get better. Company thinks a is better than b while the consumer base thinks that b is better than a. That’s normal. And those are just my personal grievances which vary person to person.
You just mentioned two of the things that bug me the most about videos of people using the Quest.
If I didn’t decide to stick with the AVP, those kinds of things would’ve just made me have no headset at all instead of settling for the Quest.
I’m not doubting the usefulness you’ve gotten from it. But I am cutting my teeth in the AVP and won’t consider such awful pass through or …I cannot recall the word - “occlusion”?
I guess I’d wait for the tech to mature and maybe get cheaper, getting something in the middle or down the road.
As it stands, I’m all-in on the AVP.
The hands higlighting is because 'dynamic occlusion' still hasnt been implemented on a os level. They have shown it working so its only a matter of time. Thats the last feature that apple vision really has on the q3 imo. The distortion you see is a trade off they choose its because q3 recreates the passthrough environment to be depth correct. AVP isnt depth correct and has some warping when you turn you turn your head. In short q3 is better for judging where you tv is or a drink to pick up or walking around, AVP is better for seeing your hands and sitting down still.
@@westmcgee9320 You both are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Such minor issues lol
@@matKilla9801 not really.
I don’t care for multiple elements of a product and so I mentioned a couple and that I wouldn’t use it.
If you loved the design of the Quest 3 and thought that a reason for YOU to buy it, I wouldn’t say you’re putting too much weight on that (flip side of “the mountain”).
It’s your money. You can get whatever you want for whatever reason you want.
If you were advising OTHERS, that’d be a different story.
I have worn the VP for hours on multiple occasions, what little discomfort I perceived in the beginning is certainly NOT present NOW… Also NOT experiencing any disorienting nor distracting effects of any kind thus far… Read an article about VP being used in actual surgery rooms…
🤔
Marques was holding his finger up like Doctor Strange on Endgame🤣
My friends, we ARE rushing to build apps!!! It is extra hard to make a valuable item. Even though they provide some affordances, it is still super fresh as a platform. We didn’t have access to dev until dev days started but that was only a few months before release! A few days and simulator, people are cooking right now but it takes extra time to make good content for this.
The major problem with development is you have to use your hands and eyes for input. Even then Apple's Vision Pro headset is still too slow for input, and you can forget about input support from multiple hands, and fingers. There is a reason why every other VR platform comes with two hand controllers. Each hand controller comes with multiple buttons, thumbstick, and touchpad for inputs. It's why those other platforms can have games like Population One (VR fortnite like game), Onward (a VR call of duty like game), and many others. Those hand controllers give users a way to input multiple events simultaneously and rapidly. That is completely missing from Apple's Vision Pro platform right now. Not to mention Apple needs to drop all the glass on the outside, because it makes it too fragile, and adds to the overall expense of this device. That outside display is only used to show someone else your eyes, but even then it is too dim. Seeing the outside eyes is really a stupid idea. Clearly this is a first gen product.
Never liked VR went into Apple store to try Vision Pro walked out bought a meta quest 3 and haven’t looked back since love it
That’s exactly the point - it took you apple to buy you the meta. Meta has always been in the game.
More like never tried vr so I don't think I like until I tried one for myself
Why had you not wanted to purchase one before until you tried the VP…
🤔
@@superzero4250 because there is literally no where to try a VR headset outside of Apple
@@ZeroCrazy how Meta somehow missed that simple marketing technique… APPLE benefits the world yet again.
I guess APPLE does save Zuck with VISION PRO…
🤔
For AR, I really think CAD programs and diagnostic apps (like for vehicles) would be great, practical applications for VisionPro. I see commercial applications and viewing the VisionPro, and other future headsets, as tools and not just a personal entertainment devices as the way to push the industry forward
Vision Pro Devkits were highly restricted, often requiring at least two in-person visits to the Developer Center to test against real hardware before you were allowed to get one.
A fully tethered device is what I want. Either to MacBook, iPad Pro or iPhone pro. To use it as extra big virtual screen. It doesn’t need to use local processing, it could be using tethered device processing to work. If it works with iPhone - it will be pretty much mobile and game changer. Much less heat produced much lower cost, much lower weight. Speakers not needed either. Make people use device speakers or earphones.
Bigscreen vr!??
@@growtocycle6992 big screen ar and vr. For work or media consumption.
@@growtocycle6992 I think trying to replicate oculus was a mistake. Majority of users want a tethered experience - waiting to use it in tandem with computer rather as a separate device which will never work well as long as the size, weight and usability is an issue
Where’s the full episode link 😭
What was that?! At 8:28 animal noises.
PianoVision isn't on the Apple Vision Pro simply because the tracking the SDK exposes isn't good enough. (This is due to the fact that piano keys are very glossy and it's adding a lot of noise to the active sensors) The keyboard overlay was floating all over the place. This isn't speculation btw, the developer talked about it the public PianoVision Discord server.
Super interesting video. Never even thought about headset plugged into the phone.
Removing the battery from the HMD without wireless power is a waste of effort the cable kills immersion every time. Put it on the back of the head.
You can't move the heat away from the SoC's even if the battery moves
Apple is pretty distinctly not chasing immersion, which is why they have the whole reality dial and push for AR, so it seems like a very easy win as something to remove where immersion isn't that stated goal.
To be clear, I totally agree with your reasoning, I just don't think it's where Apple is going with it.
@@Vanit1 I think it's likely the pro model sticks with external wired batteries, but I can imagine a world where their consumer/cheaper model does find a way to make a small battery part of the HMD maybe in the strap itself with optional expansion (or it ends up using a users iPhone as a combined compute and power puck)
@@DavenBigelow Yeah that's true, hard to predict what they have in mind so I can't argue with that.
As an VP user, the cable is NOT an issue nor a big deal at all…
I simply slide it inside my shirt, down my back, into either a pant pocket or a leather iPhone holster clipped to my belt that I bought for eight bucks specifically for the battery… After using VP almost everyday for hours the past couple of months, I experience very little discomfort beyond the occasional repositioning of the device…
The immersion is amazing, especially since the clouds or water moves, and the Spatial Audio sounds enhance the experience. The Moonscape though has nothing, but I only use it when watching Sci-Fi movies… I use to hate watching 3D content, now I can’t get enough of it, and rewatched quite a few movies making for a whole new experience…
😳
🤔
@superzero4250 I don't think you're being as mobile as my kids and I are on our Quests
No matter how I've used a cable, even overhead hanging cable, it's been twisting and tangling around my neck, and it'd probably kill my kid who is jumping and spinning around constantly when he plays
I do use BOBO battery packs to hot swap and extend playtime for up to 5 to 6 hours straight, before my legs are too tired to keep playing
Great poadcast and analysis !
Funny he mentioned that as piano vision is THE reason I went with quest (tho price was also a big factor). I wanted that specific type of app and I wouldn't even be able to connect midi cable to Vision headset, which basically disqualifies it for me. In the future I would probably prefer no-latancy connection to MacBook for AR monitors when FOV and resolutions get better so hopefully moving forward the will allow you to connect via cable as there are so many uses for such port. Vision is no doubt superior on quality and software side of things - quest's software is quite bare bones, buggy, but it has the apps so I can actually use it...
most likely it will be on vision pro this year...most will be announced on Wwdc
Strada
I really like what purpose Strada used the Vision Pro for - pulling focus in a film shoot. It really shows what the future can be with these devices.
Ben’s Gadgets
Ben really made some good points on the pricing of the Vision Pro as well as what Apple could do to improve it, including lowering the price.
Piano Vision would be outstanding! I've always wanted to learn how to play piano and my AVP would be the perfect at-home-learning option.
I think he made a great point about the tether. The future very well may be the iPhone as the Vision compute device for the masses.
Could it be that the fees are too high that developers dont feel it's worth making for Apple?
I own a dev studio, its the lack of support and lack of access to the most basic tools to build anything that was the problem.
@@marioramic4501 I see. So Apple really is a closed system. Not just for repair and spare parts, even for 3rd party software
Got it.
Apple hadn’t made the Vision Pro world wide you could import the 250gb model to Australia and use it if you create a new US Apple ID but it cost $6399 that is insane. No wonder it hasn’t taken off.
In US or AUS currency…
🤔
I heart the internet pin thing outro. Bless its heart. Almost there. I do like the idea of an interpreter pin.
Good to see Hugo here!
It is a Vision Pro. I wonder if they will make a vision SE or a Vision.
I'm starting to love this channel. Great video!
It’s VHS vs Betamax. When one clear winner rises above convincingly, the app developers will jump on board.
Move the entire computation system to the connected block, and make exchangeable and it extendable.
I sort of forgot about Vision Pro till I saw this upload 😂
Muito feliz em ver o Hugo Barra no podcast! Não lembrava que ele estava no projeto Oculus. Ele é muito talentoso e espero ver mais dele no futuro! 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
So how long until I can dual-boot an AVP and launch Horizon OS on it??
That bell in the beginning is really loud 😬😬😬😧🫨
It is not surprising that devs are not flodding the device with cool apps. Developing for Apple in general is a huge pain, the only reason people put up with it is because the iPhone is so widely adopted. The Vision Pro has a tiny installed base. Add a 3,500 price tag so you can play around with the device and say goodbye to indie developers.
That outro was gold. I'm glad at least Humane were adults about it.
AVP got me interested in VR and I've bought 3 Meta Quest headsets since then. (A Quest 3 first for me, another 2 Quest 2s for family use)
What does this mean? "Watch full episode: tk"
Not Marques apologetically wearing the Ai pin lol
VR headsets should use a tethered Gorget (neck collar). It would have a compute/battery element that hangs across the collarbone, an equally heavy element that hang just behind the neck, and then flexible rubber pads that link both things over the shoulders, wide enough that it doesn't actually touch your neck at all, and held in place by its own weight when in most body positions. I think people would find this much more functional and comfortable than a little belt-pack.
Nah man
Seeing vision Pro failure is satisfying.. sometimes too much success gave these big giants too much of power on us.
If the Apple Vision Pro is a failure then the original iPhone and the original iPad are failures….
Who is this gentleman and where I can find more about him?
69 grams
Marques: nice
Us: He is a dawg!!
1st minute is spot on. This is why I follow Margues.
"Nice." lol
Hold up... I use the speakers on my Quest 3 all the time.
Omg Hugo! It's been a while!
My thing is that it’s so ambitious without taking the price into consideration. It should 100% be a companion VR set. The brick could have more of the computing power and let people upgrade that and basically make the AVP the screen. Or yes let me plug it into my MacBook Pro and implement it into my editing workflow. But $1000-$1500 price point is what it needs to hit. Should be the same price as a iPad Pro but with the features of an iPad Air. Like I don’t need it to be its own thing. I just want it to be a great addition and I think that’s where they fumbled the bag.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple was already working on a new GarageBand for vision that can help you learn instruments and stuff
One thing I’m wondering your guys’ take on would be how Vision Pro does NOT run Mac apps. To me, it seems crazy that they would build the OS off of iOS instead of OS X if they actually want it to eventually act like a real computer. iPads can be fine for grandparent computing, but I just don’t see how a mobile operating system could ever be good enough to do more complex computing.
hugo. what phone(s) does he carry?
Apple Vision Pro is the most impactful device I’ve owned. I wish more people could experience it.
Did you ever try the quest 3 ? I found them very similar . The sound was ever better on the quest 3. That higher definition on vision though does make the limited things that are on their magical. Small difference but does make a big impact but not worth price difference for most people
the quality of vision pro is great, but if you can't do much with it then the price is not worth it
Honestly as amazing as the tech is, even from the times of rumors everyone knew this would be so expensive and out of the regular consumers’ reach. Why should developers rush to make apps? They probably wanna take the time to understand the best way to use Vision Pro, then pay and give so much time to create a good app.
The biggest thing that Apple Inc. can do now is a Dolby Atmos speaker set for Logic Pro X. That alone will start a wave of immersive video and audio for Vision users.
Waiting for Google to enter the room.
i absolutely love my Quest 3!
the ending was so fire bro had to shat on that human ai pin 1 more time
And u guys safe Vision Pro from disappearing on the internet 😂
Use your phone as the computer & battery as the source. That’s the tether 12:07 that’s the “accessory”
Strip it all down for something like an Apple Vision instead of an Apple Vision Pro makes sense but then it’s just a stronger argument to get the quest three. And let me just add that my brother has been on the VR train for like the last eight years and finally convinced me to get a quest three And WOW. Keep in mind this is coming from someone who isn’t into VR, I was blown away. Now that I know about that piano app that’s the next thing I’m getting. he was also bugging me for the last two months to get on a game called pop one and I resisted yesterday. Literal game changer lol. Using your hands to actually climb the walls and the way you have to load the weapons and just being in a VR environment it’s just so immersive. Glad I made that jump.
The most humane ending to a Zuck vs Apple debate ;-)
MKBHD’s new favorite word: “Hot Take”…just FYI
I know Im late to the party here but my opinion here is the eagle air strike is best strike... It dose more damage then the 500 to larger targets is more user friendly since it's spread across a winder area and you get an extra call in per re-arm... I personally consider the eagle air strike a mandatory pick V bugs OR bots
7:48 broke free from your programming there Marquez
Magical 300 grams? That is what fueled Rick James for years.
When is the r1 review coming 😅😅
Just put the battery and whatever else you can in a nice lil backpack
This show should have more guest!!
Its the cost, I'm not putting dev time into apps when the headset might not be here a year from now.
I can't believe i met hugo barra when he was working at xiaomi!
A VR headset powered by your phone would be really cool and would help make VR/AR way cheaper and more accessible
Google had a few cardboard vr goggles and there have been a few limited run smartphone VR products.
Samsung did this many years ago with the Gear VR. It was ok for its time.
Haha no
@@SooksVIi think the idea here is not to slot the phone in a lens array like GearVR was doing, but instead move battery and compute into your pocket, and have the actual headset as a "dumb" screen + sensor combo. Kinda like suggested in the video.
That way, you keep the weight and heat off of your face, while enabling higher resolution and FoV than phones can typically provide.
@@SooksVI
He was not talking about your phone being the VR device, having a VR device connected and powered by your phone is the idea
I think an inexpensive (well, compared to Apple) goggle that work well in cars/trains would be very useful. I.e., using the device and not get a headache.
7:48 nice
Definitely agree devs aren’t really sure what to do in a lot of cases. Think back to the early iPhone App Store there was junk on there like a carlsberg app that let you pretend to drink a beer, some lighter simulator app as well, 300 fart soundboards etc.
There’s also possibly a big leap in skills needed to dev and app that exists in 3D space vs just a flat app on a screen - only really 3D game devs would have relevant experience I guess?
Developing for Vision OS is considerably restricted due to a handful of crucial drawbacks. Firstly, the hand tracking feature is incredibly laggy, which makes it impossible to create fully functional and responsive virtual hands. Additionally, the lack of controllers hampers the majority of development possibilities.
While it boasts an eye-tracking feature, as a developer, I don't have access to this feature. This eliminates any potential for interactive elements such as triggering a hover effect when the user looks at something specific, or tracking where the user is focusing their gaze - essentially there's no point in developing anything that relies on this feature. Further, the inability to mask user interfaces and the dependency on rebuilding shaders in a shader graph just adds to the growing list of developmental frustrations.
AR image tracking fails to impress too, with updates occurring roughly once every second. Have a game or app previously developed for VR? Porting it to this OS will be a daunting task as it lacks support for blend shapes as well.
On the upside, you can expect decent quality modeling, but there's a caveat - it only holds true in a bright room. Otherwise, your model colors will have a noticeable 'dirty' appearance.
All in all, the predominant point here is, if you're a VR app or game developer, transitioning your content to Vision OS may prove to be an uphill battle.
I just realized Hugo Barra is brazilian. Good for you, man.
Good for him? Its not like he has a choice
@@garretreed9709 I meant that it's great he became very successful in big tech, not many stories like that. Try using your brain next time.
@@arthurcuesta6041 oh I understood it just the phrasing of original comment COULD cause some to misunderstand your original comment to mean "good for him (Hugo) for being Brazilian. Originally you didn't mention the successful part. Thanks for clarifying nonetheless. but true
The humane Ai did quite well this time 😅
No. They’re still bad.
Maybe final cut pro or garage band will have in VR one day.
This is the same way the humane ai pin is boosting the rabbit ai sales
It really showed how Meta is putting out a good product for a good price, and also gives incentive for Meta to up their game. It’s the best thing for the consumer all around.
At least battery replacements will be much easier
Nobody needs the Vision Pro in this form factor. Steve would never ever have allowed this …
lol at the segue into the video about the ai pin
The VP is delicate and easy to break. Way easier than the Q3.
6:58. It is intentional. I don't want this thing to blow up in my face!
I’d love to have a Vision Pro but can’t justify it at this stage. But I’d absolutely run out and buy a cheaper, more lightweight version that requires another Apple device to be connected so it basically serves to power it as a display without needing its own battery or high end processors. I suspect that Apple’s plan is to just skip that phase though and keep this platform as a standalone that can interface with the others though.
You should never doubt Apple lol
Having a plugin VR is a step backwards.
5 years from now. Rayband smartglasses on your face with a cord to your pocket that costs $10,000.
Quest 2 and Quest 3 you already can plug in to a computer and not use the battery.
Why are you having headphones?