The future of Virtual Reality with Hugo Barra
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- This week, Marques and David talk with Hugo Barra about his blog post where he makes a number of points and observations about the Apple Vision Pro and the state of VR in general. There's a lot to get into! Enjoy!
Chapters
00:00 Intro
01:20 Hugo Barra Chat
06:39 Why the Apple Vision Pro is so Important
16:18 Hugo's Hot Takes
20:38 Shopify (Sponsored)
21:48 Netsuite (Sponsored)
22:52 The Best Thing to Happen to Meta
29:29 Was the External Battery Intentional?
36:55 Full Immersion in VR
46:41 Gigabyte (Sponsored)
48:56 Apple's Marketing of the Apple Vision Pro
01:05:44 A Race to Z with Hugo Barra
01:08:58 Outro
Links:
Hugo's Blog Post: bit.ly/4cYlEhS
Hugo hired by Facebook: bit.ly/4azeBur
Verge Oculus Rift review: bit.ly/3W20Obw
Piano Vision: bit.ly/3Q3nap7
Karl Guttag: bit.ly/3VZu4iQ
DisneyQuest Paper: bit.ly/49yIREo
Shop products mentioned:
Apple Vision Pro: geni.us/po94
Meta Quest 3: geni.us/SUUuw
Shop the merch:
shop.mkbhd.com
Socials:
Waveform: / wvfrm
Waveform: www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast
Marques: www.threads.net/@mkbhd
Andrew: www.threads.net/@andrew_manga...
David Imel: www.threads.net/@davidimel
Adam: www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17
Ellis: / ellisrovin
TikTok:
/ waveformpodcast
Join the Discord:
/ discord
Music by 20syl:
bit.ly/2S53xlC
Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. - Věda a technologie
FYI for those wondering, we pre-recorded this episode because Adam is on a much-deserved vacation this week 🏝 Hope you enjoy! Hugo is a massive wealth of knowledge. Regularly scheduled news programming will be back next week 🫡
Fully expecting a 2 hour episode 👀
Adam went back to find the family archives lol..
Fantastic guest. Would love to see and hear from more! 😄
I love the WD Black hoodie. Tell WD to bring it to their site.
Portland, JAMAICA in the Building!!! 🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲
I like that Hugo referenced previous waveform episodes. Not sure if he’s a regular viewer or just good at doing interview prep, but either way it made for a really good conversation. Normally I’m not a big fan of guests on the podcast, but he really rocked it
I really am a total diehard fan of the pod
@@hbarraNice!!!
@@hbarraI feel like we should have a chat, seems we have a lot we could discuss Hugo. Tyronne from RiVR in the UK
Shout out to the editor who made distortion when Hugo was explaining it at 18:24
Who else checked their resolution/quality setting?
Such a nice touch
Went into the comments specifically to shout this out. Great touch!
@@cy43211 I thought it was my internet connection! Hahahaha!
bold, sexy
We all had headphone wires, running under our shirts, like 5 years ago. All of the sudden we have no idea how to handle a wire
I still use wires. 😂😂😂
That because of people got used to wireless headphones or earbuds. So people have to get used to wires again.
This is a terrible comparison. First of all a large portion of people still use wired earbuds. And good enough bluetooth earbuds can be had for under $50 and have daily use case for most people. The Vision Pro costs $5000 and has limited use cases. PC based VR isn't that much better in terms of costs when you factor in the price of a well spec'd PC. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see mass adoption of either within the next five years.
I just looked it up. It's been almost a decade. that's wild.
Just saying, I’ve yet to see a single reviewer, run the battery wire under their shirt. It’s like every single human forgot about this very simple and effective trick we had. Very weird.
30:32 Marques: nice 👁️👀👁️
Man of Culture.
Nice
he never misses a nice
I was just about to comment this too lol
Apple pulled a marketing rabbit out of their hole. 49:25
This episode made me realize that while I like guests as bonus episodes, I love the pure crazy madness of the original crew.
L comment
Really dude?
What an amazing episode! Hugo's perspective on many things has been great to listen to, and maan, his reactions were often so pure! When Adam played the air horn sound effect, when the guys were talking about David playing Dota for a hot second or when Marques noticed the "very unclear" pun... You can see how passionate for the whole subject Hugo is and it's great. Thanks to the whole WVFRM team for this!
The entire WVFRM team builds the most incredible atmosphere in the studio. It's a truly magical thing and I'm just so lucky to have experienced it. Missed Andrew though!
I’ve watched the last two f1 grand prixes in AVP on the Vroom app. It’s not years away, it works perfectly now with as many streams as I want, completely live. Main feed, data screens, a couple driver feeds with their radio feeds, the 3D track illustration. It’s so good.
Andrew isn't here coz he's busy listening to Taylor Swift's new album me thinks
And so on
I almost thought today wasn't Friday
Same
Yeah same 😂
Me here😂
18:27 nice editing touch!!!!
Yeah.. such an efficient way to display what he was saying while he was saying. Hats off to editing team for taking an effort (which might not be noticed by many)
Yes, visual artifacts. Was thinking whether it’s just my eyes, or it’s intentional from the editor!
@@jayshah4690 I don't see it. What did he do that was so special. Was it before the Shopify promo?
43:53 the F1 experience would be wild..imagine having an experience from Lewis's helmet camera
Sadly, the way his Mercedes has been performing so far this year, and for the past 2/3 years, it really wouldn't matter whose helmet you were experiencing it from! 😞
Oh, I haven't heard the qualifying results yet from China, waiting for the highlights on TV! PLEASE don't spoil it!! 😁
F1 would be amazing in VR though, with the car and driver view; driving an open wheel race car is amazing and exhilarating anyway (had the chance 25 years ago and loved it! 😻 ), but to experience it again through good VR would be a great option, but without the fear of getting hurt!! 😜
Red Bull new drone 🔥🔥
@@stevesstuff1450 I relate.. at the end of the day, it depends whose experience you'd like to experience.. recently watched Charles's helmet camera footage with open mic. his breathing experience especially at corner entry and exit was wild.. this merc/lewis debate poses if its the car/driver..
@@adnanbhamra3444 damn right... imagine the vision pro mimicking g-forces while you're live watching the drone feed..🔥🔥🔥🔥
I love this guy. Ben following him since I/O 2011. Never seen anyone like him
Love the more in depth talk about the VR industry as whole. Super interesting interview!
I feel like they know nothing about VR... Meta already has VR sunglasses prototypes lighter and flatter than Big Screen Beyond from 3 years ago or something
Hugo is Brazilian, and man, his English is great! As a Brazilian, I hope I get to that level of fluency.
As a Brazilian, I was thrilled when I found out he's also from Brazil! And from Minas Gerais!!
Hugo's perspective was awesome to hear
This was such an incredibly interesting interview! Was glued to it the whole time.
took me a while to realize hugo is brazilian, his english is impeccable but his name is very local so i google it and confirmed haha, good to know we have a fellow brazilian mind leading in the tech space
If i'm not wrong, he was one of the leaders on Google developing Android and later went to Xiaomi too!
PTBR: Se não me engano, ele era um dos líderes do desenvolvimento do Android no Google e depois trabalhou na Xiaomi também!
take a shot every time David says "paradigm"
It is a paradigm. :D
I was looking for this comment 😂
I specifically came to the youtube comments of this episode for this, thank you xD
So awesome to see this!! Hugo is so articulate and it was such great conversation to listen to! (:
I'm confused. Quest ALREADY does live sports. It already does courtside nba games. And when they release a higher end headset they will already have Apple beat with courtside sports
He was such a cool guy :) I like how clear it was that he was a huge fan of you guys. Kept referencing past videos and podcasts, like he personally knew you all. Lol
Marques’s “nice” made my day 😂
YES!!!! Friggin love that y’all talked about DQ (Disney Quest) that was my first ever experience of VR was DQ
I think David has a good point about Full Immersion VR re: courtside experiences. The novelty will be good at first, but the reality is that the curated viewing you get currently, gives you a much better idea of whats going on in the game, and people will prefer the classic experience long term.
Was the intro music a different part of the song than the usual?
Will watch this one after I read the blog, so hugely appreciated this one!
I really liked this episode. Especially how competitive Hugo was with the typing at the end.
Hugo is a super guest. Would love to hear more from him as vr develops
*LOVE* the interview formats. 👏
Great, great guest! Hugo was super fun to listen to :)
Xiaomi user here. Nice seeing Hugo again. Wish he would have stayed in the company longer but based on his resume, he seems to have the need to move on at the 4 year mark every time :D
I haven't clicked anything this fast in a long time. Hugo Barra is a fucking legend!
Paradigm
Did David just learn the word Paradigm before this epsiode? 😂
8:11 oooh, “gaze & pinch” I totally misheard the first time
Glaze and pinch
Apple invented the gays, you heard it here first.
I think the point about live sport being one of the first things to really get impacted by these headsets is true, but one thing they didn’t seem to discuss is solving how you can share this experience with others. Because I think that will be the biggest drawback of it, and initially I think it will be amazing but also something you can only really experience alone.
Yeah, I got that to. I really can't imagine a world where people either a) only sit alone at home and watch a game or race through a headset b) sit "together" on a coach at a friends house, all with their own headsets - and the token guy or girl who forgot his or c) sit in a stadium or in the seats at a racetrack, surrounded by others wearing a headset.... Not a single one of those scenarios looks like an ideal situation or a bright future to me, let alone something I can see people going for as a large majority. I missed that part in this - very interesting - discussion, I think it's one of the biggest hurdles to jump. And some way I hope they don't, because this quickly shifts into a very dark place. But hey, maybe you'll have the VR seats, next to the VIP seats and 80% of the other people will still just enjoy the event together, with their own eyes.
42:40 I've been watching NBA games all this season in vr court side for free on Quest 2. It already exists.
lol fr? is it any good?
@@paschalasobirionwu1183 Yes. it's awesome. the best way to watch the NBA without actually being there. in fact, in some cases it's better than being there. I would rather sit courtside in VR than in the nosebleeds in real life. unfortunately they are not doing it the playoffs or the finals but should be back next season. just Google NBA games in VR schedule and you'll see a ton of games you could have watched courtside in VR. It's free on the Xtadium app on Quest.
@@paschalasobirionwu1183 Yes. It's great. On the Xtadium app on Quest. They were live streamed in VR for free. You sit court side. Just google NBA in VR Schedule and you can see a ton of NBA games you could have watched for free court side in VR. They will be back next season
@shall_we_kindly because apple bro.
Live?
Love the way Marques interviews because he’s been interviewed by so many people.
One of the best discussions I have seen on this topic
Phenomenal episode. Really enjoyed his perspective.
thank you for that live sports hot take. I‘m waiting for it for years now!!!
Who edited the podcast and added those pixel effects at 18:20? Good job
NBA has been broadcasting live VR games all season. Center court and courtside. It is awesome.
shoutout to hugo barra-you’re very knowledgable.
It's nice to have an expert opinion on these things. And I appreciate his hot takes and agree with some of them
I don't know how much Microsoft has worked on Hololens for the past couple of years but I do find it odd that it's not even mentioned when talking about the "new paradigm" that Apple has created.
Ready Player One is awesome both the film and the book. I am looking forward to when the tech like you send reach a point like smart glasses getting closer to VR/AR headsets or the opposite. I want Sword Art Online, SAO: Ordinal Scale type of tech. I think the Tilt5 glasses are great or maybe Microsoft Hololenses. The Valve Steam Index headset was great especially with the grip controllers to grab things. I started my VR experience in the early nineties at the county fair with this huge heavy headset with a heavy long wire and wire controller handset inside a large plastic ring and a low polygon game. The Apple Vision Pro and the whole industry will need to focus on sports, music, and games to move forward and grow.
You have forgotten something in this video that the product has only been released in the USA. Additionally to say that no one is talking about the product that only exists in one market they just rolled out Spatial Personas and Spatial Sharing and this was big news!
Feels like the step from Hololens to Vision Pro is the same as from normal AirPods to AirPods Pro.
Transparency will get better over time, so we will get the better product in the end.
I don't see that we will get AR Headsets, that transform into good VR Headsets, but we already have good VR Headsets that can turn into good AR Headsets.
LG have been demonstrating transparent OLED TV displays for a couple of years years now, so I'm sure in a year or two, well have mini transparent displays for VR headsets becoming available too.... 😉
The fact you compared Google glass to a VR headset... you have no idea what you're talking about.
It's more like going from radio to cellphones.
@@eon5323 I just thought Google Glass was the most recognizable AR Glasses, maybe Hololens would have been better. The point I was trying to make, was that I don't think that AR and VR Headsets will get better until they meet in the middle, I think seeing what can be done with pass through in the Vision Pro, something like the Hololens well get obsolete in a few years and replaced with an VR Headset, because with a VR Headset you can now switch from full VR to "full AR" and it will get better until we get to a level of the Big Screen Beyond in times of size and weight. Sorry, maybe I poorly writing ^^ I dont See it coming that we will have AR Headsets that can Be good VR Headsets. Bu t we already have VR headsets that are good at AR.
That was a good episode, but I cannot be as excited as you. I like tech, like you, but there are cool things that I can integrate in my life and cool things that are just demos. For example, I love Formula 1 and can imagine an immersive experience being in the paddock or the grandstands. I can imagine a big screen and a virtual map on my coffee table showing the live positions of the cars. Nice! But I can’t imagine doing this with my wife besides me, as we normally do. I can’t imagine watching the race without seeing her face, her expressions, talking to each other while looking in the eyes. I can’t imagine the experience without drinking and eating something. Soon I’ll have a baby to take care, how to do that with a massive VR ? I can’t imagine how I would enjoy an immersive experience without all these other things. I also don’t see it as a replacement for going to the event, or even bringing the event experience home, missing seeing the people around, feeling the excitement in everyone’s faces, getting to hang out in the nearby bar or restaurant, with maybe some charm of a different culture. I can’t imagine the engine sound being as loud, as raw and as impactful without me worrying that the volume is too high and I should lower it. The sport video stream is so much less than the live event, and being at home is also so much more fun than experiencing it alone in my virtual world. Question, do you really prefer to watch a basketball match by yourself in Vision Pro or to see it in a big quality TV, maybe an iPad with some stats in the coffee table, a handful of friends with you, your favourite drink and snack? If the idea is to bring the live event home, forget it, it’s never going to be as good as being there just because all of these other things.
This was really insightful!
There is a 5 year old video by the German CZcamsr AlexiBexi, which beautifully coveres this topic from its times viewpoint. It even features an interview with Tim Cook about the future of AR. I strongly recommend you to put on the auto subtitles and enjoy this beautiful video. In my opinion it adds a nice perspective on the topic to the view.
I was lucky enough to get to sit court-side at a NBA game many years ago and it is a horrible place to actually watch a game from ... BUT the experience was amazing. Its more about the everything that your body notices that is not visual and audible. The presence of being so close to the players, cheer leaders, feeling of how you could just reach out and touch a player, etc I think would be very hard to truly reproduce. I think from visual and audio you could get 80%-90% of the experience to be worth it, but hard to image it being the same. Like when you see a solar eclipse in person, climb a mountain for sunrise, etc. There is something about being there that makes it hard to imagine reproducing digitally (currently at least).
Portland, JAMAICA in the Building!!! 🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲
Great interview. Keep it going guys 🔥
It's good to know that others are also thinking about live sports, for I've been pondering the same forever.
I appreciate that these videos will serve as a historical point of reference for technology and what we expected at this point in time. I now realize that regardless of what amazing tech is created we’ll continue to want faster, lighter, more durable, cheaper, tech. How about lets just smell the flowers while they’re in bloom 🌺
Great episode!
That's one top-tier guest. 👌🏻
Wait! Recognize him! I used to work at Walt Disney World in Florida. There was an experimental VR Aladdin’s Magic Carpet ride in a backroom at an EPCOT pavilion. I went to the presentation several times hoping to get to ride but never did… but I remember him. He was there!
Great episode I learnt a lot
Thanks for sharing it. Interesting discussion. ✌️
The frustrating thing about this comparison is that there is very little overlap between the devices, except that you put both on your face. Most of it is software, so it's stuff that meta could have done this whole time, but they went with this stupid room for everything, rather than spawning a window, checking your mail, then dismissing it. So you go to the menu room, go to the MS Office room, then go to the menu room, then go to the netflix room, etc. Multitasking might be too much for the meta processors, or there could be some other technical limitation, but this is just not intuitive/easy. Apple's implementation just make sense. I use the thing all the time. Did my taxes on it this year while listening to music. My quest pro just sits. Meta's passthrough always looks like UFO footage, as well. It's telling that when you record video of what you're seeing, it replaces the actual passthrough with footage from the external camera directly, which looks cleaner.
yooooo 4 people on waveform (not including the other 2 goats Adam and Ellis), love this pod man
18:00 iirc apple's pancake optical stack places the virtual image (magnified display) slightly out of focus. this is what creates the very slight blur (reducing the sde).
on the other hand, meta's quest pro/3 optical stack are made to be as clear as possible. this makes it so you can see (very fine) SDE on the quest devices... but this also makes the quest clearer in certain scenarios even when compared to the vision pro's superior on-paper resolution (~34ppd vs ~25 on the quest 3). this is what KGontech talked about
Let's go! I was waiting for this
New and improved camera for the podcast?
22:42 Marques is doing the forward slash at the right direction. Head to GCN Show for reference
I totally agree with him about putting basically all the components that you can into an external enclosure that is tethered to the headset itself. I thought apple would maybe try that with their first headset but it was an interesting take to hear why he thinks they only put the battery external for the first version.
So thoughts of the compact lens form factor?
Coolest VR live sports implementation could be watching from the sky cam during an NFL game 🤔
I think they will have 2 versions. 1 u get all the cameras in front of you like a multi screen(any format ball, wall. Whatever). 2 they get a full court (might not be live right away) using multiple cameras to generate 2k u can freecam in VR (any seat u want, any player u want, first person, 3rd person, sky box freecam)
So glad he pulled out the Steam AR headset. They look like came right out of Cyberpunk.
Someone please reply, where can I find the music at the beginning
The virtual boy getting absolutely snubbed as one of the first VR experiences when Barra mentioned the Alladin ride
Great pod.
Loved the Q&A however there is one outstanding question I have that never seems to get asked. When do you see a time when one of the VR / AR companies makes a headset to replace their office? Working from home is a great concept and it allows all those buildings to be used for other things other than work spaces, it reduces the energy conception, elevates traffic... but it disincentivizes collaboration, you don't know your team... I hoped to see Apple Vision address this and essentially when you put on your headset you're in your space in the office. You see everyone and everyone sees you. You can hold meetings or walk over to someone and ask them a question. It blends the work from home and the work in office. Apple Vision brought a lot of future concepts to the table but did so with a half baked design. No one wants to wear the Vision Pro for 8-10 hours a day, they'd love the addition of gestures but they want to keep their keyboard and mouse for productivity. If not Apple who do you see going in that direction of making their AR / VR headset a place for employees to sit at in their home office and have it feel like the company workspace?
damn I love this podcast
Wait there is a black and white version on mbk?
Counterpoint to Shopify, loading spices onto cart dramatically increases your chance of meeting a mystical wolf spirit from zero to there's a chance.
Great interview
Great podcast - but I absolutely *loved* the IMAX 3D HFR version of Avatar 2. Really really wish there was a way to rewatch it that wasn't limited to the Vision Pro.
Yay for the shoutout to Silicon Graphics. 1993-2001
My family and I did the SF green room where you sit in a green room on a block and act like your flying on a carpet its pretty cool. Was around like 2006.
It’s that time of the week again guys! Start of the weekend in the UK. Always a good start is of course Waveform. 😊
43:43 F1 With Vision Pro is amazing it could add RedBull Drone, Helmet View 🔥
I think the dude is spot on about sports. If I got to see the Seahawks from a center seat in the stadium that is normally gonna be in the $2-3K anyway, I might as well get a headset!
Great episode
Watching now :)
Great pod
32 minute mark ... i think in the 90s the "tether" was called a PAN (Personal Area Network) and most attempts involved a Chewbacca-like belt with batteries and modules (they were the computers) ... more about Wearables back then, but same idea
PARADIGM!!!
nice visual aid with the pixel problem
The movie is good. But Ready Player One, the book, is so much better. (There's a dude who produced a whole audio book version on CZcams with sound effects and all).
About the Piano Vision kinda app not being on Vision Pro. They have Garage Band on IPhones and IPads. Why can't they make a special version of it for the Vision Pro?
The whole reason I bought a quest 3 was to run 4xvr and play 3D movies lol
I really loved the interview what was Hugo’s jacket?
That brief aliasing effect 👌
That last option of additional rental units on the side of the main house home is very common in subsaharan Africa.
But everyone who uses those rentals doesn’t wanna use them, they just can’t afford bigger spaces. These small spaces come with many problems… from sickness due to confined spaces to poor sanitation and management of utilities. They don’t solve problems, they just help manage a situation for a short time.