That Time Ben Shapiro Debated a Liberal on Guns
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- čas přidán 20. 05. 2019
- --A throwback to when David interviewed Ben Shapiro in January of 2013
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Ben Shapiro: The problem is young men growing up with single mothers.
Also Ben Shapiro: We should throw more men in jail.
He made this same argument on Joe Rogan talking about the need for increased in law enforcement in the same communities with high rates of single motherhood. Well if more law enforcement is going to mean more young men in jail, leaving more single mothers who raise boys that become more likely to commit crimes due to adverse child experiences than the vicious cycle continues. Not a great solution by Ben in my eyes.
He does not see the correlation.
Yeah, we need to allow these people in bad situations to commit crimes and get away with it. Don't put criminals in jail, its counter productive. If we let people with worse backgrounds get away with whatever they want it'll really help society.
Now do you see how stupid what you're arguing sounds?
@@adamtolbert6766 Reducing incarcerations as a way to deal with single parenthood is unlikely to have a significant impact. These issues are especially noticeable in Black communities. Roughly 10% of Black children have an incarcerated parent at some point, and of those, not all are incarcerated during their childrens whole upbringing. But the number of Black children growing up with a single parent is around 60%. It's legitimate to argue that reducing incarceration is not a proportionate method of reducing single parenthood even if you admit that it plays a role in it.
"this is the last time I had him on"
*cuts to footage from 1998*
Right!!!
🤣🤣🤣
Is that sarcasm? I can't tell but I believe this is from 2013
@@coldmexican288 Aaawwwe... It's ok, a lot of people with diminished mental capacity aren't able to understand and recognize sarcasm. We know it's not your fault.
@@bradpointer6134 a lot of dudes with diminished penis size share the characteristics that you show. Being aggressive towards others to compensate that void in your personality. It's okay buddy, just learn to accept your reality and stop projecting your traumas in the form of exterior aggression. Seek help Brad. Your family can still take you back, just learn to control yourself.
Although I disagree with Ben on most things, I gotta say I love how this interview went. During polarizing times it’s nice to see calm and handled debate.
@@sunritroykarmakar4406 did the way the interview went change?
@@jesui. The point is he used to be more reasonable, but now he's contributing to all the vitriolic divisiveness that plagues current political discourse.
Given how you qualified your original statement by saying 'polarising times' I understand why the response was to point out that this was a good while ago, because it would place it before the polarisation you see today.
Do You disagree that abortion is bad? Do You disagree that prostitution is bad?
If you know anything about Shapiro beyond out of context soundbites, that's how he always is. 👍
@@richarddavis3157 yup on both. Why tf do y’all care so much about what people choose to do to themselves? And don’t talk about no kids either 😂 it’s clear this country doesn’t care about those, even less if they’re poor or have melanin.
It’s because when you pile people into cities like rats living on top of each other with jobs that barely cover bills and wage slavery you have anger and you have dissent
Part of that is true, but it starts at home, a lot of the young men who commit murders usually the father isn’t around, by the time system gets to these kids the damage is already done
Are you okay
@The voice of... there's no such thing as wage slavery
👍👍
This discussion is an exact model of what should be happening on a more broad scale.
Exactly.
Well unfortunately the left has become so radical that they'd probably label Pakman as Alt Right or some stupid thing like that.
@@23pyromaniac Which is why he has a show with a stable leftist fan base?
An informed leftist telling a buffoonishly misinformed conservative how to think already happens on a broad scale.
When Ben goes into the 2nd Amendment, my God, what a fucking weasly moron...
I’m a conservative and I’m happy I followed pakman, I know this man is smart, well spoken and humble. I would love to see him on Ben’s show.
Agreed...when conservatives get asked who they respect on the left I wished they'd mention him
Terry Hopp it would only take an interview on a major right wing platform
Lost all respect after seeing him on Joe Rogan. He denied obvious reality to avoid backlash from his fan base.
Pocket Panther Look at you being just vague enough to not have to back up your assertion, while also avoiding backlash. Why comment something so uselessly abstract?
Carlos V I think my views line up 99% with Pakman. He is the voice of reason on the left.
He can find the balance when Ilhan Omar says the wrong thing.
Or when AOC makes a mistake he’s not afraid to call it like it is.
That’s the kind of leftist I am.
One who unflinchingly follows evidence wherever it leads. Even though it puts me at odds with the Kulinski, Dore, TYT, etc crowds. They don’t have the mental fortitude Pakman has.
“Assuming that we’re arguing in good faith.”
*A WILD GRIFTER APPEARS*
What a trendy word you used there.
@@azurezerox8392 there are simpler ways of saying you got grifted and feel bad
@@joffermann nah, just annoyed by all the cop outs people use to write ideas off these days. Grifter and dog whistle just seem to be the most trendy ones today.
@Cools DOODS 1. it isn't me it gets directed at.
2. people saying something in the youtube comment sections doesn't make it true unless it can be supplemented with explaination or evidence. otherwise it's just trendy name calling.
@Cools DOODS "they"? who is they? you're assuming that anybody who gets called a grifter on the internet is either actually a grifter or has room temp IQ? am I following you correctly? or are you talking about the ones making the accusations?
I wish conservatives and liberals could have more conversations like this. No labeling or name calling. We need to keep dialogue open.
Day...it used to be that way but changed under Obama. Social media and smartphones are a lot of it.
Nobody's stopping you from having these conversations, it shouldn't be up to some host on the internet to debate for you. Every single person can have these conversations if they choose to.
@@missburn Exactly. People need to stop being so afraid and reluctant to have an open honest non-judgmental conversation. Most people are willing to have conversations, and are absolutely not like those lunatics you see on the internet who scream and throw slurs around.
Dpaks a progressive, not a liberal. I know that distinction is lost when it comes to US politics, but yeah.
If only liberals and conservatives could have discussions like this then maybe we wouldn't be more polarized than ever.
We used to.... The Media does not allow for such things any longer.
You can't find many leftist being polite or being open to talking to people with different views. While a guy like Gavin McInnes isn't technically polite all the time at least he has humor and is open to talking to all kinds of people.
@@okyouknowwhatever what are you talking about? there are plenty of polite leftists. Gavin Mcinnes is not funny and super rude. so, your point makes zero sense
The thing is everyone thinks the other person has some evil idea behind owning or taking away guns. I believe everyone is looking for good and of ur mind gets changed let it happen don’t be stubborn America. 👍
@@okyouknowwhatever you should stop watching sjw compilations its rotting your brain and is making you lose touch with reality
I’m no fan of Shapiro but “It was a blast” is the most hilariously concise way this discussion could’ve ended
Guns are a necessary evil just like government. When are the conditions right to give up guns, when checks and balance in government can deteriorate by republican or democratic majorities overriding them.
The line plus the delivery had me laughing 😂
@@vedantpatel6379 well some republicans function as democrats, that is marxists, theres nothing funny here russia and germany wanted to kill everyone and their kids it could happen in america
@@erik878 Hitler wasn't a Marxist, but an extreme right fascist. In fact a way to get into a CC was being a commie. I know in the USA You don't get proper educated, but You really should stop with the communist fear bullshit, they had it 100 years ago and because of it we end up with people like Hitler, Franco and Mussolini, and because no one wanted to talk about communism (remember russian workers tried to negotiate with the zar before the revolution) we ended up with Stalin instead of Tolstoy. Plz stop, it's been 100 years, we now know both systems suck ¿Can we stop acting like one of them is good?
@@emiliohoms6491 I think it’s in fact you who’s not proper educated on this. Fascism is essentially a nationalist version of socialism. You need a powerful state in order to have fascism. If you look up where fascism stems from, Giovanni Gentile was the founder of fascism and got his inspiration from socialism. Marxism and fascism have a common origin. A strong, totalitarian state there to guide the people and work for the «common good» is a trait in both socialism and fascism.
The only difference is who they favor.
Socialism is supposed to favor the weak, while fascism an ethnic group or a country. The end result is the same however, a tyrannical government claiming more and more power and abandoning people’s freedoms. This is the opposite of right-wing politics, where the power is handed to the people, and where people have to provide for each other in order to accumulate wealth. You can’t become powerful through coercion.
I love how respectful they both were while discussing a VERY divisive issue
Agreed that is how differences should be handled! Not bullying each other!
Ben never got called on his bs in this discussion. He was projecting white privilege and (maybe unrecognized) espousing racist tropes. He has no idea what growing up a poor inner city black child is like. He’s never been thrown to the ground, groped, and accused of being a gang member just because he was walking home from work. He didn’t have to make a choice between working fast food for $7.25 per hour or holding a bit of rock to make $300 in an hour.
@@johnhiggs325 and so?
Respectful was a take. Ben got trounced but respectfully.
His comments about the UK rates are just false. The US has about 4 times the intentional homicide rate than the UK. This figure has been relatively steady for 20 years.
Hm, could you provide a source for that? It'd be interesting to have a look.
@@ceciliaxx you can just search "violent crime rate by country" and see where the US is about 4-5 x's higher than the UK
You are conflating intentionally homicide and violently crime.
Wow, David was always brilliantly disciplined and eloquent.
Kyïv stuff He doesn't seem to understand guerrilla warfare tho. He made the "whatcha gonna do bout the tanks" argument, to which one should always respond "ever heard of Vietnam?"
Sumguy who jerks it to Waifus No we don't live in Vietnam, thanks for pointing out the obvious. We live where people have more training and weapons than the Vietcong or Vietnim ever did. The whole war is a case study on how the most powerful military in the world can be taken down by starving, shoeless, and under supplied people. The Taliban never had tanks either, damn sure survived and thrived.
Did you have a rebuttal or something to add that's meaningful? The wording is fine if you understand English, implementation is the fight.
no way the UK got 5 times higher numbers of violent crime than the US; you are just throwing out big numbers to try and make an empty point.
facts are that nowhere in the civilized world do we have anywhere near the number of people getting killed by guns, in most civilized nations we almost NEVER see anyone getting shot; it happens a few times in your lifetime NOT everyday.
facts are that in every civilized nation on the planet guns are heavily restricted to the point of unobtainable for civilians. there is, therefore, a clear knowledge that banning guns completely for any other purpose than hunting, which is heavily regulated for that purpose specifically, WORKS and SAFES LIVES and No one should be ok with people dying just so you can test out unfounded theories of BS All so you can have a little more fun doing frankly really stupid stuff.
If stupid cons understood what the 2nd A really means, we wouldn't have this problem.
Erebus2075 Is China considered civilized? They have a fuck ton of knife attacks and deaths
David Pakman looks like he's straight out of some 1980s sitcom in this video.
Very Kirk Cameron
Looks pretty good though, right?
@neal thailand ben shapiro was 29
@@cadaudioguitars2898 If Kirk Cameron had a brain.
Lmao facts
I would love to see a part 2 to this. This was honestly the most productive and mature conversation i’ve seen on gun control between the left and right.
Ben should extend the invitation to David Pakman since David Pakman invited him the first time.
I could see a Sunday Conversation episode with him.
@@notoriouseagle1074 Definitely 💯
Ben would never lol, he'd get destroyed. He feels comfortable debating only college students.
Now ?
kind of silly how he said kids not having fathers is the cause of crime but putting people in jail for longer would solve crime seems hypocritical
I would think a criminal role model would be worse than no role model. Young men need positive role models.
@@olicc and mothers can be positive role models.
So your worried about people that commit crimes, often violent crimes, and that they might be jailed too long? Do the crime do the time. Worry about the people that were robbed or brutalized and not criminals who made the decision to steal and hurt people. The facts is that most criminals get out of jail and commit more crimes- and the crimes they get convicted of almost surely is the tip of the iceberg in terms of the crimes they have committed. They finally got caught …
Daddy did not play catch with me is hardly a reason to commit crimes nor a mitigating reason for less time. The time is not for punishment but to protect other people from becoming this person’s victim.
@@atlasrex that's a digusting twisting of what we pretend the prison system is designed for. Rehabilitation. The fact so many people go back in after getting out, shows the prison system doesnt work. at all.
It's a strategy to vilify people when you throw around blanket statements about crimes committed. Espeiclaly when so many of these crimes are victimless, AND weed based.
You are delusional. Spend a day in a prison and you will discover that vast majority of the people are not kindly pot smokers but dangerous people with little regard for the welfare of other humans and they deserve to be in jail and the reason they need to be locked up is too protect the decent people who they prey on if allowed free will and access to other people. They repeat crimes even after being jailed often for years. The only change comes from age - over 45 criminals tend to reduce their criminal behavior. A rational prison system for violent prone criminals is to keep them locked up until they are over 50 as then their violent tendencies typically decline. The prisons are full of very dangerous people. The reason Dems want criminals released is simply that they want to turn them all into democratic voters.
The Ben Shapiro of today would call the Ben Shapiro of then a far left liberal.
Just ask Andrew Neil
Red that was an interview
@@thought-provoking795 my point was he called a conservative a leftist
What happens when your channel is built on a base as radical as Trumpists and you don't want to disappoint the base.
Ben doesn't seem to give his own opinions anymore. He just seems to be an echo chamber for Trump and the Republican party. It's a shame really because he used to be refreshing to listen to and now his arguments are awful because I think he's defending what he doesn't believe.
And this is how we are supposed to have discussions. Take notes CNN and Fox News!!!!
You forgot another news show
@BEASTMODE 2020 Wolf News!!!!!!
@BEASTMODE 2020 It's because you need to....believe---
That is true. No matter which political orientation, let's be civil and nice. Logical and fact-driven.
For real
Wow. I'm a big supporter of the second amendment and I've been listening to Ben for years. I've never actually heard this specific argument against it and I don't know how to think about it. I appreciate the way you presented that and I really think you stumped Ben as well as me. Much respect, I will be tuning in to see more of your content and political opinions in the future!
I don't like Ben Shapiro but he seemed like a mostly reasonable person here.
@@actualteddybear891 he is. Just watch his content before you let others poison your mind with their biases
@@jeramysteve3394 I've seen content from his show. He plays off people's fear and outage to stay relevant. When he speaks he shows how narrow his mind is. I don't avoid his perspective but I don't actively seek it either. I don't think we agree on much and that's why I don't mind hearing what he has to say. Being deaf to a different view is unhealthy.
ben: "arms" doesn't include RPGs or nuclear weapons
(what was the Cold War "arms" race about then?)
conservatives never think it through
For some reason. When Ben started talking about who does all the murders my dog just started barking
Ben Shapiro said that background check and training should be required in order to own a gun and I agree!!
it is
Brian Cheng background check are already the law and mandatory training to own a gun is unconstitutional
Waseem Amin there already are background checks and wait times
Waseem Amin do you own a gun? I’m gonna go with no because if you did you would know it is very intense
Waseem Amin even for a father giving a gun to his son? The problem isnt the blanket check its the precident it sets a dangerous one
This is why Shapiro doesn't debate people who know what they're talking about. Good to see a calm dismantling of classic right-wing nonsense.
It helps that David had a mute button.
@@JonKellerXXXX The problem is the racial divide we created for three hundred years and the endemic poverty, lack of opportunity, and ridiculously bad education systems.
@@BenGrem917 That dude, basement bum, is a troll. I would probably not even acknowledge his stupid comment.
I'm surprised younger Helium Shapiro didn't run out of the interview crying like a little snowflake child. It looks like back then his head wasn't as deep up of his ass as it is now. He was still an idiot back then, though.
@@JonKellerXXXX "black culture" didn't develop on its own with no influence. Like why do you think black culture is the way it is? You think blacks are just naturally the way they are?
Man. I cant believe there was a point in time where Ben could have an actual conversation. Great job Dave!
What do you mean? Have times changed?
@TruthOperator81 ben cannot have an honest conversation anymore. He just spouts transphobic propaganda
his college campus visits are more combative, but when he brings folks on his Sunday special it's more like this.
I was thinking the same thing only towards David.
@@ZacharyMartinMusic . I mean... its ok to be wrong i guess
Damn it’s nice to see Ben getting owned to the point he starts stuttering.
Ugh, this is the energy we don't need anymore dude. I enjoyed this because they spoke like civil adults, not because anyone was owning anyone.
@@elenacabrera3438 I would say I’d agree but that’s your opinion yes it’s cool that they had a conversation but that’s your opinion this same clip is even on the video of the right getting owned on this channel a few days ago.
@@gintokithetrollgod im not sure I understand. You said you would you agree, but "that's your opinion" what about it being my opinion prevents you from agreeing? You are still free to agree with my opinion, then it would just become *our opinion...
@@elenacabrera3438 the part I agreed with was the point where you said that you appreciate them having a civil discussion but it’s also not wrong to like a bit of a debate type atmosphere as well. I do disagree with the first part of your statement there’s nothing wrong with someone winning on there points rhetorically nor is there nothing wrong with having a debate if you don’t like that fine that’s your opinion but there is nothing wrong about stating someone was rhetorically better than the other person it was funny seeing someone cocky like Ben getting put in his place.
@@gintokithetrollgod lol, yea I feel you he is a bit of a weasel. The political tension is just so high currently, I feel we need to start getting away from this owning our opponents mentality and move more towards a "discussing complex topics with my peer" kind of mentality. This our team vs their team stuff needs to be outgrown asap. Otherwise the human race is going to end up just being a bunch of dust particles by 2030.
This was the most reasonable I’ve seen Shapiro lol
people have a way of acting reasonable around david lest they look foolish
context matters when you’re gonna make that claim
and you call yourself the logical citizen. That was embarrassing.
You haven't seen much of Shapiro past the highlights then. As is true with a lot of personalities in the modern era, you need sample size to get through all of the soundbytes.
being reasonable doesn't get clicks
What I learned from this is that I seriously need to look into getting myself a warship and some cannons.
You know, the first USA millionaire made a lot of his fortune from owning privateers, which were converted warships with cannon.
Also, a machine gun was patented in London before the Boston Massacre, so they existed, as well.
Nuclear weapons, not so much, so anti-gun people at least have an argument, there.
@@Egilhelmson you're a hundred years off you dolt. There were no machine guns until the middle of the 1800s, there were none in the 18th century.
@@Egilhelmson also the first American millionaire was a fur trading company owner John Jacob Arstur (The American Fur Company) and lobbyist, not a privateer "owner". So you're just wrong on all counts, can't say I'm surprised.
@@sgtjohnson49 you are thinking of something like a Gatling gun which did come out of the 1860's, but there are much older versions of fast firing guns. The puckle gun came out in the 1720's which had a revolving cylinder but a very early version. Still could fire 3 times faster than a musket but failed to be properly reliable. All this is to say, the technology is older than you think. Old level actions rifles which did come out in the 1830's can get to ridiculous speeds, not even being semi.
@@jmbrook a single action revolver that wasn't very reliable isn't comparable to a fully automatic weapon. A lever action rifle with an internal magazine which takes at least 20 seconds to reload is not comparable to a fully automatic belt felt Gatling gun. That is what a machine gun is. To say that there were fully automatic weapons during the 1700s is just blatantly false. Primitive revolving weapons? Absolutely, there were revolving cannons and arrow weapons before machine guns that as well. That doesn't make them a machine gun. There were even a belt fed revolvers, though idk actually used more than as a prototype (though you can buy modern ones nowadays) but they were still a single action revolver, not a machine gun.
His argument really 'tanked' at the end there.
A group of people. With AR15s... Could take out a modern day tank... A US military tank.. A US military tank.. Wooooooow
@@dante9620 the US lost wars in Vietnam and Afghanistan. Never underestimate the power of guerrilla warfare
@@matthewdegliobizzi5681 until the military uses the weapons theyve spent decades developing.
Theres no competition as to who would come out on top. And its definitely not the pudgy boys with penis extensions.
@@matthewdegliobizzi5681 we lost in Afghanistan?? Did I miss something pretty sure we won that!!
@@addarrelstokes1000 you still think the US won something in Afghanistan? If you do, please explain what they won exactly…
Ben: "It has nothing to do with race! I just want to lock up everyone with the exact list of traits I've been telling my audience all black people have!"
(Another fun way to shatter the "jail _more_ people" argument is to make the exact same argument he made about Chicago against him, but for imprisonment lmao)
@@markpalmer9844 Yeah lmao it's not even subtle
I thought exactly the same. "It's not about race" and then begins to profile a race.
Wow crazy how racism and stereotypes work. I not for second think “ black people” until you guys brought it up. Welp I guess I found the racist.
@@Jimyjonescones Calling out someone for being racist isn't racism. Come up with your own arguments next time, it'll make them harder to shut down.
@@criticalthinker3262 no but by adding a race into his description of crappy people is. Crappy people are in every race Just like not all people of your race or my race are .
Great interview. No name calling, no personal insults, just a very smart and well thought out discussion about the issues. Loved it!
agree,it is refreshing
David is an amazing interviewer.
No, more insults!!!!!! I WANT MORE!!!
Agreed. It's likely because David's an adult (no matter how young he was at the time), and because this was likely *before* the Trump era (rather, 'error').
Steven Crowder has "Change My Mind" as well. No name calling from his end, and mostly not from the person he's debating. It's refreshing as well.
This is what we need. Not cancel culture taking the side they disagree with off their tax evading platforms.
Dang Shapiro, untangle your earbuds. It's distracting
Clearly this took place before Shapiro was sponsored by Raycon lol
lost some respect for him after i noticed that, he can't even keep his earbuds straight.
That’s not the only thing that was tangled in this video. 😂
I’m not a fan of Shapiro but he approaches headphones like I do...fuck it I don’t have time
I'm also not a fan of Shapiro, but anyone who gets distracted or loses respect for such a small thing has their brain more tangled than his earbuds. Listen to what someone says because that's what matters, don't pay attention to the frivolous stuff.
I feel bad for Ben Shapiro’s wife. Imagine listening to this voice all day 😂
oh wow 2013 was a magical time
why isnt there more stuff like this, literally so hard to find!
Audience capture especially on the right these days
That and Ben and Daily wire sold out to big oil tycoons who own their company.
Ben sounds like a robot malfunctioning... Lmao
He sounds like a south park character doing a parody of himself.
He is a robot.
Ello Owu
He is a south park character that take himself too seriously (despite of his helium voice)
Or Max Headroom.
@Steve Austin 'Tax cuts'
I think you mean 'the biggest tax increase in history'. That's a 'loss'.
Economic growth: The gross domestic product has grown by more than 3% for multiple quarters.
He's decreased it by about 1% on average, while obama increased it by 6%. Another loss.
'Coal: Trump stopped Obama’s war on coal.'
I don't think you understand what 'coal' is. That's a loss. Going backwards is a loss.
'Unemployment:
the number of people collecting unemployment benefits has continued to fall to a near 44-year low. '
A lie of omission that can be seen from space.
'Deregulation:'
Since when is surrendering winning? That's a loss.
'Consumer confidence:
consumer confidence rose to the highest level in 17 years, according to the New York-based Conference Board.'
It was rising at the same rate before him. Not a win, let alone for him.
That's it? A bunch of things he didn't do, or are directly detrimental to the people are 'wins'? I don't think you understand what a 'win' is.
These are 'wins' in the same way WW2 wasn't a 'Win' for the Jews.
Ben Shapiro: Having guns ensures we don't see tyranny on American soil.
Also ben Shapiro: Here are a bunch of examples of tyranny on American soil.
I wonder if he feels the same since the Capitol Hill insurrection.
@@sweiland75 Nah I saw one of his recent videos on it. He has mutated into a disgusting piece of a human being over the years.
No it means to stop it not prevent it
I think you missed the point there
I feel like COVID 2020 is a good response to a lot of opinions that David holds here. He mocks that the 2nd isn't important and that time restrictions are no big deal, however here in California there were lines wrapped around every single gun store for months because people were realizing how important being able to defend yourself is. We generally live during a safe time and safe country so we are very privileged to mock the 2nd amendment
You hate to see a man who doesn't have the moral wherewithal to untangle his damn headphone cable.
Great conversation. Thanks for sharing this throwback
It’s only fair Ben Shapiro has David Pakman on his show.
Agree didn't know shapiro have had clever opinions before
Vassili75 Shapiro is smart af most media distorts his words.
Exactly. Apparently David would be one of those "bad jews" Shapiro is a spineless coward out of touch with reality. Big funding and sensationalism sells. Unfortunately, his concern is not unity but divide and conquer. Weasel shit. Schmuck.
@@whatster8753 lol okay
@@Bookish1995 honkahonkaa
16:36 This is where David "DESTROYS" Ben Shapiro. Ben says it's simple; the 2nd amendment protects the right to arms "necessary" to prevent tyranny then goes on to stutter and draw a hard line in the sand that semi-automatic rifles is all that's necessary to prevent tyranny, even against tanks. And supposedly he spoke to veterans that attended war college who did "studies" and concluded that the army cannot handle insurrectionists armed with semi-automatic rifles. The fact that he thinks insurrectionists armed with SEMI-automatic rifles can defeat trained soldiers with AUTOMATIC rifles, bazookas, tanks, APCs, A10 Warthogs, Apache helicopters, strike drones, and on and on is just laughable. Like a tyrannical government wouldn't be above using those options. It's obvious David wanted to have an adult conversation and bobbed and weaved through Ben Shapiro eloquently and I thank him for that. I still can't believe David got Ben Shapiro to say that he's not against background checks and mandatory training.
That’s not how it works anyways . If there were a civil war military bases would be taken over and used just like in the first civil war. It would be tanks v tank, jet v jet. Majority of military bases are in NC. A red state. Also majority of guns, gun owners and military personnel live in red states.
I think there is too much anti-government rhetoric with little to no understanding that the Government is a crucial part of how America functions and is made up of citizens, friends, and neighbors. The beauty of the Constitution is that it requires elections and reexamination of representatives and policies on a regular basis. Additionally, every citizen has access to the Courts, free speech, and the media to bring forward their complaints of injustice. The idea that violence, revolution, and killing represents a viable solution is ludicrous and dangerous--particularly for those at the fringes of society.
@@yanstev not anti government. Anti federal government.. big difference there
Great conversation! It's nice that it wasn't an us versus them discussion, but just a general discussion on the issue, what the problems are, and potential solutions.
“We need to jail more criminals “ that comment totally discredits Shapiro in my mind
Agreed if you take it on its face, but I don't believe he meant it how you took it
@@mattmace2606 how the fuck else can you take that statement
@@darrinstanfill6846 not really sure, but you likely took it the same way kamala or AOC would've taken it so not surprising you don't understand
@@darrinstanfill6846 you're not really giving what he said it's full credit. In that segment he did make distinctions between drug users and drug dealers as well as point to violent criminals as well.
@@azurezerox8392 so? He’s still wrong.
Ben Shapiro is literally scared of a conversation with actual leftists.
It would destroy his platform of debating strawmen
Literally, as opposed to figuratively scared? Lol
@@jimmyschitz7901awww poor snowflake
🤣
Kevin Freeman....am I literally a snowflake?
@@jimmyschitz7901 idk a appearance that might greatly deminish or end his revenue stream I would say could cause a person to be literally scared. Plenty of people are literally scared of losing their job and the cascading fallout of losing quality of life and standard of living...
Ben "I don't think law enforcement can do everything though, but we need heavier police presence to suppress gun violence" Shapiro
Baffling levels of hypocrisy. He'll argue for small government until it doesn't fit his narrative anymore, then the US might as well become a police state as far as he's concerned.
Yes I caught that too. Both points contradict each other.
We need heavier police presence so that more can be done, but you still need to be prepared should the help that you expect doesn’t arrive. If you’re prepared, you’ll be less sorry then if you weren’t.
The Kozmonaut I agree that poverty and lack of education create crime, but inequality? What do you mean by that?
@@rrgz7717 I honestly read your first comment as being sarcastic. FTP if you were bring serious 😂
It's a pity that you didn't call him out more, for an example his dog whistling. When he says he wants to take guns away from young men from single mother households, he's clearly talking about African Americans
Theres a correlation between single parent households and crime u should go look for yourself then make an opinion
@@yeemem4580yeah and theres also a correlation between single parent homes, crime, poverty, low education, and black males. correlations doesnt always equal causation and correlations can be caused by external factors, this one being institutional racism.
Hi Ben, I am from the UK, we will take our crime problems over yours everyday of the week. Thanks
Good interview, respectfull on both sides.
If you think Ben Shapiro isn’t talking about black people when he talks about how to police guns....then I have a castle to sell you in wonderland.
Gaslight much?
Do all black people have the same culture? Your logic is committing suicide. And your racism is leaking.
@@swagstyle33 of course all black people have the same culture. it would be ridiculous to say they do. im not racist, and im not really pushing logic, im speculating my beliefs. i think ben shapiro is more concerned with black gang violence in chicago than he is poor white violence in the south. he gets to use very convenient wording, but weve gotten almost a decade of listening to him explain his views, hes a classic republican.
@@swagstyle33 People who can see the stereotypes and hear the dog whistles aren't necessarily the racist ones.
It's the people who pretend it's not what it is...those are the racist ones.
@@swagstyle33 your random defensive backlash to his logical input is what sounds racist.
Well, seems like Ben can have few valuable points here and there when he takes a bunch of Zolofts and calms down a lot...
So, since this video came out there have been almost 2000 mass shootings.
It's so obvious to me that when Ben says it's a "culture" issue, he means black people
Not to mention, he wants to imprison even more people than we already do. Gee I wonder why 🤔 could it be because these people with the "cultural issues" in Ben's eyes are voters too??
Actually he said big cities were the issue.
@@extremecentrism9796 he definitely cited "culture" as being the primary issue. He went on to talk at length about the differences between New Hampshire and Chicago, etc, which on the face of it could be a legislative or pop density issue, but he places the context in "culture."
@Extreme Centrism 16:16
Pakman: what is the problem?
Shapiro: It's culture
Literally!!!! You can hear how bad he just wants to say black people 😭🤣😭🤣
Could that be the way you wanna think of what he said and so spin it that way?... And lets be honest because the truth will set us free. There is a gun culture problem in a certain demographic which he mentions here 4:26. He never mentions color but the truth is the truth.
Ben Shapiro always sound like when you play CZcams videos at 2x speed lol
Chris of STARS he looks and sounds like Isaac from children of the corn
He sounds like Daffy Duck to me.
He's in debate mode where time is limited to get a point across... and his pitch and slight stutter is more like porky than daffy.
DUDE play this shit at half speed, it's HILARIOUS hahaha
Are we sure he's not sucking on helium!?! Could explain the shortage!!
Probably one of the best debates I’ve seen in a while.
The government has mortars, full auto machine guns, and explosives. Semi autos aren't taking down the army.
All the more reason to keep the semi autos
@@PhantomLordOG oh, dude. I'm all for guns. I love my guns. I'm just laughing at the idiocy in the argument. Especially when you hear the preface to him saying that line. His contradictions are funny to me.
1:03 "I think you did way better than Alex Jones did..."
Nice underhand there David.
I noticed that too :) But honestly I think everyone knows Ben killed Piers. Thats actually how he became famous.
I heard that too. Left a confused look on Ben's face. LOL!
Jael Sonnen
LOL Yea it's like saying that he is better then a rabid dog.
@L Cincinnatus The alpha chud speaketh, oh yes, the right definitely has lots to be proud of, what with the electing of a reality show tv star, caging of children, white genocide paranoia, and the bootlicking of criminal politicians and all. Yes, so much to be proud of.
L Cincinnatus You do know that the beta and alpha concept isnt true for humans right?
Good freaken interview. It's awesome that you're actually asking questions to clarify Ben's points and bring out where other's may see the disagreement. Gj.
MOST OF THE GUNS USED IN GUN CRIMES IN CHICAGO ARE DONE WITH GUNS BOUGHT LEGALLY IN INDIANA AND SOLD ILLEGALLY IN CHICAGO. YOU CAN THANK INDIANA'S LACK OF GUN LAWS FOR CHICAGO'S GUN CRIMES!!
Sorry for using caps but I'm so sick and tired of seeing this numerously debunked talking point resurface every 5 days lol like WTF. Gun laws have to be made FEDERAL cause unlike our national borders there's no fucking CUSTOMS checkpoints between our own states!!
@@tcg4111 okay but guns are legal in indiana and they have way less crime then Chicago. The issue isnt the guns its the human behind them if u wanna kill someone you can use many things to kill people. Also gun violence because of gangs doesnt bother me because if those idiots wanna murder eachother go ahead. We do neet to do something about mass shootings though
@@matthewmiller8758 I don't think you understood my comment at all here. They have less crime cause they have 1/10th the population! The guns used in Chicago are obtained legally from Indiana, therefore INDIANA'S lenient gun laws where anyone can buy as many guns as they want at a gun show, is the REASON behind CHICAGO'S gun violence.
@@matthewmiller8758 Bingo. Hit the nail on the head.
Also this guy is copy pasting this on every comment. Lol, what a loon.
I love it when we have an actual conversation between right wing and left wing were we can all learn something about both sides without yelling accusing , outright lying . When you Discuss a subject with an open mind that's the moment you can start to agree and come together to create solutions that serves us all
What do you agree with Ben Shapiro on?
Lol David mutes Ben when he wants to say something.. You can see Ben talking while David talks but hear no words
Good conversation where two men engage in a controversial topic with civility.
not really. what's Pakman's opinion on this? nobody knows because his debate tactic is to try to trap and then end the show. pretty disingenuous. btw Arms are not weapons, arms are firearms and small arms. that's not tanks, boats, grenade launchers.... it's a very dishonest tactic.
@@nettlegettle3534 So what's the difference between an arms dealer and a weapons dealer?
@@nettlegettle3534 really that's the argument that you want to make arms aren't weapons? Do you know what a weapon is? A gun is a weapon it's also a right but doesn't change the fact that it is a weapon. A car can be a weapon, a shoe could be a weapon, a gun/Arm is innately a weapon.... You are an idiot. To say an armament (arm/gun) isn't a weapon 😂
@@nettlegettle3534 'Arms' is short for 'armaments', which is a synonym for 'weapons'. Dictionaries agree on that. One can be armed with things ranging from words to nuclear bombs.
@jeremy Miers, I agree a little, but it’s his show. I don’t feel like he was dishonest, but he certainly wanted to direct the conversation in a specific direction.
I love watching Joe Rogan for that reason. For the most part Joe takes the time to listen to his guests and allow them the opportunity to explore their ideas in a much deeper way than most.
Problem is, Joe’s shows take 2-3 hours. Lol.
thank you for being respectful to ben and having him on.
MOST OF THE GUNS USED IN GUN CRIMES IN CHICAGO ARE DONE WITH GUNS BOUGHT LEGALLY IN INDIANA AND SOLD ILLEGALLY IN CHICAGO. YOU CAN THANK INDIANA'S LACK OF GUN LAWS FOR CHICAGO'S GUN CRIMES!!
Sorry for using caps but I'm so sick and tired of seeing this numerously debunked talking point resurface every 5 days lol like WTF. Gun laws have to be made FEDERAL cause unlike our national borders there's no fucking CUSTOMS checkpoints between our own states!!
@@tcg4111 So what you're saying is criminals don't follow laws and find ways around them. At the same time we have a huge illegal immigration problem at the border of Mexico. So if those criminals can figure out how to bypass customs you don't think other criminals can. If all the guns are taken away from citizens how would they defend themselves from those criminals? Just rely on police? Lol.
@@Cosmlc1022 Yea, you're right, we should get rid of ALL laws! I mean why have ANY laws if criminals are just going to break them anyway?!
Dumbass.
@@tcg4111 That's clearly not what I was saying. You're the one saying let's get rid of all the guns. Im saying if you get rid of all the guns, and criminals still don't follow laws, then all you have to protect yourself and your loved ones is the police force your kind hates so much. Funny how you call me the dumbass for an idea held by you though.
@@tcg4111 You have been watching Destiny lol
Ben lost me right at the beginning when he made a false comparison against New Hampshire and Chicago. Chicago has twice the population (2.6 million vs 1.3 million) in 1/40 the area (234 sq mi vs 9,350 sq mi). I'm sure that there are more factors than gun laws that contribute to those statistics.
Just in case you haven't been an enterprise before these studies are just for population,
It's the fact that economically and racially New Hampshire's a damn ethical state, Not so much for Chicago or Michigan for that matter
This was a very enjoyable debate thank you for the video
Legalize marijuana! There will be less "criminals" housed in the prison system so that you can house the real thugs!
stop saying "criminals" they are criminals
@@victorbergman9169 "You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."
- John Ehrlichman, Assistant to President on Domestic Affairs
@@sirius1696
More people need to be aware of that quote...we need to legalize drugs like cocaine and heroin so that we can take the violence out of the sales of those drugs, as well as ensure that those drugs aren’t laced with even worse stuff like fentanyl...we can also label the packaging like we do with tobacco with info letting people know how harmful the drugs are
@@vietnamd0820 well put together I agree. Drug addicts aren’t all criminals people can get them hookes
You mean the crooked police and their helpers?
David, for future reference when someone brings up this nonsensical talking point that the UK has a higher crime rate compared to the US, you need to push back on this deceitful statement.
USA categorizes violent crime into 4 broad categories. This is how it's recorded:
“In the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program, violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. Violent crimes are defined in the UCR Program as those offenses which involve force or threat of force.”
In the UK however, lot of minor offenses are recorded as violent crime because of the way they define it.
“Violent crime contains a wide range of offences, from minor assaults such as pushing and shoving that result in no physical harm through to serious incidents of wounding and murder. Around a half of violent incidents identified by both BCS and police statistics involve no injury to the victim.”
So in the US for it to be considered a violent crime, you need to actually injure someone whereas in the UK even if you attempt to injure someone it's recorded as a violent crime. In the UK minor sexual advances are also considered assault.
So it's pretty fucking obvious, UK's violent crime rate will be higher than the US. However if the US followed UK methodology then our crime rate would go through the roof! Please don't let right wingers peddle this lie anymore on your show.
whoa did not know about this MASSIVE difference... and none of the bloody mainstream news have shed the light on this?? what kind of rubbish news allows this disinformation to continue...
you didn't even provide any data points just quotes and you got likes for it. LOL
@@TheItachiRulez data points? Lol Are you pretending to actually know what you're talking about? Stop being lazy. It's not very hard to look it up. "lol" It's so easy to actually educate yourself but more and more people are turning into lazy assholes
@@TheItachiRulez
Shapiro provided no data either. One of the two was just bullshitting. Wanna place a little wager on who that was?
If you recently take it severe violent crimes in proportion this year so far for the first time ever London has overtaken New York.
Also, since the ban on the handguns in the UK during the 90s looking across the decade afterwards (not just a statistical outliner year), there has actually been an increase in homicide by firearms.
Love your show keep up the great work
Ben Shapiro is quite a bright guy, bright enough that if he watches that clip back, he will know he was floundering towards the end. Being able to change ones mind or admit one was wrong is probably the bravest and smartest thing we humans are capable of...but it's also one of the rarest acts around!
I agree, drives me nuts how many people I run into lie and actually warp their mind into thinking its the truth. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone is wrong at times, everyone is here to learn. Scares me how many people just will not admit any faults. Its scary. All I can do is work on myself and raise my family to be moral and true to themselves. Integrity. All about integrity and spiritually aligning my acts with my beliefs.
But I do not see Ben as being wrong. Its not subjective. Its clear.
@@williambreakiron2859subjective is exactly what it is. I think you meant objective. Also, his argument for 2A was to prevent tyranny, then provided 3 easy examples of tyranny that occurred after the bill of rights was drafted.
that one time Ben contradicted his stance on gun control similar to how the NRA did back when the black panther party operated in arms in the late 60s.
Good point!
Loool, yep. White conservatives love firearms until they see an armed black socialist militia.
People’s views change over time. I’ve noticed he has become more libertarian over the years.
@@danny_chestnut253 Yeah that's why he supports heartbeat bills. Cause he loves liberty.
and freedom
Daniel Stephens
That's because he consumes too much helium
Hey Pakman sorry for trolling your channel in the past. Truth is I'm a loser and have no life.
He challenged your perception of the world and felt the need to defend it. It's a good thing that you realized that David isn't your ennemy.
C'mon guys you're that stupid, he's obviously leftist trying to be conservative...
Only libtards could've fell for that.
@@shner6742 , no true Scotsman much?
You are also ugly and smelly
@Colin Cleveland ah yes but have you read Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings? Truly horrible ;)
I appreciate how David, in 2021, still tries to include conservatives in discussion and find a middle ground that both sides can agree on.
2023 not so much so! lol
@@chrisanderson6611 But when he does grab the popcorn. They're guaranteed going to be lunatics!
@@jamesc954 I don't think he has any conservatives on any more because the left has become so radical, it's hard to defend. I'm just hoping one day he will have a red pill moment. I know he's a smart guy. But I think he's in it too deep there's too much money involved now to change teams.
@@chrisanderson6611 I have to respectfully disagree with you on that one. I believe a lot of conservatives don't want to go head to head with him, especially on his show. If anyone can argue the points on the left it's David. Both the right and the left have radical views on some issues. I think currently the scales definitely tip on the conservatives side. Election deniers, equal rights issues, etc..David has no issue defending his beliefs, just watch the current podcast he has done with Lex Fridman or Patrick Bet David.
I watch both of those podcasts with Lex Fridman and Patrick Bet Davis. David articulated his points very well but he got very little pushback especially from Lex Fridman who shares his beliefs, Patrick Bet Davis is a businessman entrepreneur and isn't much of a political debater. I hear that word "election denier" parroted alot. I don't know anyone that denies elections. A lot of people question the results of elections, Left and right. The Democrats had a 2-year investigation about Russian interference and believe Trump was an illegitimate president. I believe the left is more radical than the right with their confusion about gender, teaching children trans ideologies, the world's going to end with man-made climate change, using the department of Justice to go after their political opponents, censorship and collusion with big tech, socialist ideas, race baiting, radical groups like Black lives matter and antifa burning and destroying, our president saying white supremacist is the biggest domestic terrorist threat, The extreme measures the left took during the pandemic, etc etc.
The USA, with the HIGHEST rate of citizens in prison needs to jail MORE people? What the actual fuck.
One thing. Ben Shapiro mentioned how we needed guns as a protection against a tyrannical government...but then he listed tyrannical things our government did despite the fact that people owned guns. He kinda destroyed his own point
Protection against a tyrannical government was a valid argument before the government got weapons like drones. I doubt a hand gun will do much there.
I don't think you thought that through carefully enough. Something that seems like a reasonable thing to say at first, but breaks down when examined further. Try substituting the variables and see if your reasoning still holds. Here, I'll start it for you.
Ben Shapiro mentioned how we needed (x) as a protection against (y)...but then he listed (y happened) despite the fact that (x existed). He kinda destroyed his own point.
So here's the question you need to ask yourself: If (x) doesn't completely protect against (y), is it worth having (x)? Answer carefully.
Daniel Tobin I see what you you mean, but you’re still better off with more to defend yourself with, assuming you’re a responsible person.
@@FilterExel, based on Shapiro's example, every instance of tyranny by the US government has not been defeated by a well regulated militia in possession of guns and the divide in firepower between US citizens and the US military, which Shapiro supports, is greater now than it ever has been. On that basis, it's hard to take the threat of government tyranny as a genuine reason for allowing access to guns, especially when that's not what the vast majority of gun owners are most concerned about. A lot of people basically use the second amendment as a shield against having to defend their actual reason for wanting to own guns. That's not to say that those actual reasons are necessarily bad but those are the reasons that they should be defending. I also find it a little amusing that there's a large amount of overlap between those who claim that they need access to guns themselves to protect against a tyrannical government and those who want the government to spend even more money on the military. They are so worried about the government turning tyrannical that they want that government to have even more firepower to use against them?
@@wunnell Again, not good enough. To your credit, you do a much better job at explaining yourself than OP, but your scope is way too narrow to accurately reflect reality.
First, the mistake you and the OP make is that you don't mention or recognize one simple fact. Most prevented tragedies go unrecorded. The simple fact is that the presence of firearms in the general public make it less likely for the US government (or any other government, for that matter) from tyrannizing the people. This is what my previous exercise should have revealed to anyone who took the challenge seriously. Another example: Just because we have enforced speed limits and not all people follow them, and subsequently wreck their cars, doesn't mean that enforced speed limits are ineffective. Under OP's logic, enforced speed limits are useless because they're violated sometimes, despite the police's best efforts.
On the other hand, I can point to plenty of times persecuted groups are deprived or strictly limited of their right to arms, then subsequently persecuted further. The Jews and other "undesirables" during the 1930's in Germany, the people of the Soviet Union, some Warsaw pact countries, Venezuelans now. It's a lot harder to field infantry against your opponent if your opponent shoots at you, and infantry is critical for tyranny. So I reiterate, the 2nd Amendment acts in part as a preventative measure. It doesn't need to be perfect, it just needs to work well enough. And all we have are indirect measurements to gauge its effectiveness.
"every instance of tyranny by the US government has not been defeated"
But not every instance of tyranny by governments within the US. Specifically, local governments. Look up the Battle of Athens (Tennessee). This was considered a proper use of the 2nd Amendment retroactively. This also adds another dimension to the 2nd that you didn't mention or recognize: It's not just for use against the federal government. State and local governments may not tyrannize the people so easily if the people can physically remove bad actors from power.
"I also find it a little amusing that there's a large amount of overlap between those who claim that they need access to guns themselves to protect against a tyrannical government and those who want the government to spend even more money on the military."
Source? Nearly all libertarians I have talked to are pro 2a but against military spending - they think it's a waste of taxpayer money. I'm not saying there is no overlap (there are stupid people out there, after all), but I think you're exaggerating it.
"They are so worried about the government turning tyrannical that they want that government to have even more firepower to use against them?"
Even if the overlap you pointed out is true in abstract (maybe you're using extremely broad categories), I don't think you will find many specific cases that hold this position.
Wow. Shapiro got really tongue- tied at the end there. His brain had to catch up to his mouth, I think.
But good talk, on both sides overall. A few false dichotomies on Ben's side, but better than he is these days.
He had a prepared answer and he failed at reading it. Notice his eyes when this malfunction occurs.
Stewart Howell I agree. David is fantastic as always and Ben was much more reasonable than he is now.
Wow Stewart had to make MULTIPLE posts about how much he hates Shapiro...He must really need the attention or really just needs to release his 'hate conspiracies' somewhere. Does Pakman really cater to an audience like this? It's a shame I really enjoy listening to him too...
@@brandonr9754 Yeah. Two comments. So excessive. 🙄
David. You're awesome. Keep doing what you do
This was an EXCELLENT discussion. I am VERY pro 2A, but I must admit, where to draw the line with regards to what falls under "arms" is indeed a difficult question to answer. Good work!
Tyrant piece of sh** rot in hell. 2a or no 2a don’t alter. Look what’s happening now, fixed mag ars… bullshit.
I think David's pace help make this a good back and forth as perhaps he slows Ben a bit. I would like to hear more from Ben, but typically he sounds manic or at least with too many shots of espresso. This is nice.
Even though, Ben Shapiro always claims how he wants to have a civil discussion, he's never polite and charismatic in them (imo).
It has become more about destroying people with another POV, he's rarely straight up insulting, however he frames his opponents as immoral and vile (Pro-Life, Israel, Guns, etc.). Back here he seems much more likeable even though I still cant agree with him.
Greetings from Germany David!
no way the UK got 5 times higher numbers of violent crime than the US; you are just throwing out big numbers to try and make an empty point.
facts are that nowhere in the civilized world do we have anywhere near the number of people getting killed by guns, in most civilized nations we almost NEVER see anyone getting shot; it happens a few times in your lifetime NOT everyday.
facts are that in every civilized nation on the planet guns are heavily restricted to the point of unobtainable for civilians. there is, therefore, a clear knowledge that banning guns completely for any other purpose than hunting, which is heavily regulated for that purpose specifically, WORKS and SAFES LIVES and No one should be ok with people dying just so you can test out unfounded theories of BS All so you can have a little more fun doing frankly really stupid stuff.
and the idea an armed militia in any way shape or form could even remotely hope to beat the US military is utterly laughable and anyone making that argument might as well be saying that GOD WILL SMIIIIITE YOOOOU!!!! which is less retarded of a belief to have...
FFS if a bunch of random torsos with x-military background could take down even 10% of your military you wouldn't exist at this point as there are other countries like CH and RU at least which would utterly steamroll you no probs...
@@Erebus2075 American revolutionaries stood up to the most powerful nation in the world and made it unsustainable effort for the British. . .In more modern times, the Vietnamese did it to America. . . Also consider that most US troops would be adverse to shooting US citizens. An armed population would be a nightmare for a tyrannical govt.
I’m pretty sure that’s only because David muted him while he was speaking.
That really doesn't seem to apply to this interview?
Best debate on guns I think I’ve ever seen. Aaahhh 2013 what a gentle, civilized time that was…
BEFORE the orange lunatic was on the political scene.
Ah, back when the biggest scandal was a tan suit 😂
David is not bringing up Any conclusions . He’s basically just responding to Ben and looking for things to disagree with.
Exactly my problem with this, and those saying that David won the "debate". Wasn't really a debate.
Ben is a smart guy but has a fragile ego. In my opinion David is seeking a solution to the problem above all else, and makes better points in the discussion. A very fine interview.
he's not smart. He uses gish gallops often to overwhelm in a debate to attempt to appear smart.
Ben Shapiro is not smart
It us a good interview. David does well here by continually stopping Shapiro from entering into an endless speel of lies and archaic phrases.
But Shapiro is not smart. Sadly, people need to really fact check each and every claim he makes. Selective use of data to construct a false narrative is deceitful, not clever.
David simply agreed with Ben on everything until it came to owning tanks and then David said it was muddled and that he didn't understand Ben's argument. What better point do you think David made?
Jacob Craven great points.
And we ignore the fact that rural states like Oklahoma have as many suicides (committed mostly by firearm) as very large cities have murders.
"I'm for smaller government" "we should have a heavier armed police force"
Where's the contradiction?
@DrgnFlys You're!
@@undertaker66687 The police are part of the government. Giving them more powerful weapons is expanding the power they have over average citizens. That's literally making the government more powerful. How can you not see the contradiction?
@@GabbertEvergreen Lol don't bother. If ya gotta point to the obvious......
@@GabbertEvergreen Smaller government and powerful government are different things.
Conservatives believe in a small, powerful government that's effective in a reduced number of areas.
Giving the police better weapons does not increase their power but it may make them more effective. What makes them more or less powerful is the law.
There's no contradiction between arguing for smaller government and better armed police forces at the same time.
The amount of guns in the US has constantly risen vs the "rate" of gun violence which has consistently declined throughout history.
You can't argue facts with liberals. Their brain don't work that way. It's all about emotion.
But it's still higher than in any other civilised country that doesn't allow them. No guns, no gun crime.
@@garyl5128 Countries with no gun has highest violent crimes because people cannot protect themselves. Mexico has no gun law, and it has highest murder rate. England has one of highest hot home invasion. Hot home invasion is when criminal invades your home while you are still there. Wake up, man. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Gun is just a tool.
@@saongpark2423 Lol, wake up? The US kills almost as many kids as we have murders when adjusted for population and I should wake up? We don't have any kids killed by guns or school shootings any more. The last school shooting was Dunblane in 1996 and the government changed the gun laws - since then not a single gun death at a school and only on average 30 a year - that's the equivalent of 142 gun deaths in the USA every year - you have around 40,000 gun deaths a year. Your murders are five time higher than hours. We don't have guns, yet we don't have a problem with people 'protecting themselves' because no one has a gun so far less people die - to say guns save lives is a proven fallacy because of that simple fact. You say guns don't kill people, people kill people, yet you can't see the link that people kill people with guns - so don't give people guns. Problem solved. If you remove the guns you remove the gun deaths, it's really that simple and is proven by the countries that have very strict gun rules like Australia, Japan, Switzerland, UK etc. You're the one that needs too wake up. Almost 3000 of your kids will never wake up each your because they get killed by a gun.
As for home invasion being higher, that's hard to ascertain due to how that data is derived, but even if it is, in America you are more likely to die as a consequence. There's also another side to this, door to door salesmen, lost partygoers and drunk tourists seeking help might be more likely to be shot dead by householders in the USA.
The fact is, you take away the guns and you greatly reduce the murders, suicides and child gun deaths. What's not to like about that?
This is an interesting article: Four countries with gun control - and what America could learn from them:
www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/15/so-america-this-is-how-you-do-gun-control
@@aaronkirsten8079 I know, and if you read what I said I've taken that into account (you are around 4.74 x larger 313 vs 66 million) - we have around 650 to 800 murders a year. Adjust for population size, that's like 3,000 to 3,800 in the US but you have around 18,000 - 15,000 of which are by gun. Your child gun deaths are almost the same as our entire murder count (we have no child gun deaths). Two thirds of all gun deaths are suicides and your suicide rate per capita is also higher than ours. No matter how you look at it, even when adjusted for population size, guns mean you have a disproportionate amount of gun deaths. Approx 30 in the UK per year, mainly in the criminal fraternity, (equivalent to just 142 in the US - even if you double it, it's a huge difference compared to 15,000, or even 10,000 in a good year for you), the US on the other hand has 40,000+ and approx 15,000 of those are murders. No matter how you look at it, putting guns into the hands of civilians is going to end up with thousands of unnecessary deaths.
The last school shooting we had was in 1996 at Dunblane. The government tightened gun laws further and that has stopped. In the US you do nothing and so it keeps happening every year. You seem to love your guns more than your kids,
Hmm, Shapiro says we can curb gun violence with a huge increase in law enforcement. Three minutes later, he's saying law enforcement can't protect people from gun violence. Which is it, Ben? I wish David would have picked up on that at the time. It would have been fun to watch Ben squirm at that.
Overall less crime not specifically gun violence I believe is what he’s saying
First BBC and now this? Poor Ben, go back to universities and change the difficulty settings to "Easy."
At least this time he was actually answering questions. Positively surprised.
You can really tell how he doesn't really has a defense for his standpoint at the end, though.
if Ben went to debate any student from Labour Society in any British uni, he would get flattened in mere seconds. I witnessed a debate between a Conservative and a Labour society member, the Conservative had an excellent opening statement, but the Labour soc dude dismantled her immediately
@Dr Downtime I managed to write a comment that has been proven to be correct. What have you done except brown nosing Ben?
@@patrickbooth5091 "Whataboutism"
@@patrickbooth5091 he got owned. Deal with it and stop complaining. Just move on.
David: If you gave people guns, the government would just overpower them with tanks
Ben: That wouldn’t work because...I’ve talked to some people who said that it would be too hard
David:....ok fascinating discussion
Look at how well the Vietnamese and the Afghans resisted the American tanks and helicopters with mainly gunpowder arms. The point of small guns isn't to kill the entire tyrant army but to make their tyranny miserable and costly. A stable police state can only be established amidst a population with no violent recourse.
sterlingveil sure, I get that, but guerrilla warfare works in Vietnam, and Afghanistan’s own government was and still is ruled by terrorists, so those are tough examples to say they would be consistent with how Americans would behave in a government takeover, especially when in this situation the troops would already be domestically stationed and the citizens contained without as much effort as it takes overseas.
Government takeover is never easy and always messy. Venezuelans are still protesting their government right now without arms and there is a whole issue with proxy leaders in Guaido and Maduro representing other interests
You don't need to overpower a tank to defeat it. You can go after fuel, ammo,food, and various other supply routes. It is also a possibility that their will be a large number of soldiers
(our own citizens) who are unwilling to follow the orders that would have them violate their own countrymen.
A soldier may decide to be willfully ignorant in the event of actual government tyranny the way German soldiers did in wwii, but if and when they actually have to fight a well armed opposition this will likely not be the case.
craig halpin you kinda make the point FOR the government here. Food and supplies without external allies would be government owned or embargoed to weaken the uprising. Food and fuel rationing would be tougher for the rebel forces, not the government
@@stevejones5075 citizens are the ones who farm and rais cattle, so I really don't see your point. The army could possibly try to take farms, or more likely food and fuel storage facilities but the citizens already hold those locations. This type of operation would also spread the military thin if they had to guard all of the various food and fuel storage facilities.
And now you see why Ben Shapiro did not want to debate David Pakman at POLITICON. Pakman had Shapiro running around in circles.
Shabibo completely faceplants in the end 😂😂👍🏻👍🏻
England defines "violent crime" differently by encompassing more actions so that rates will be artificially higher.
Alternatively, the USA could catch-up with the Motherland and include more crimes?
Yeah in Britain fist fight is violent crime
@@joshuafleming249 Wait. That's not considered a violent crime in the US?
@@sebastianlavallee706 battery is a violent crime in the US
David, I’m a longtime subscriber to the Daily Wire and a huge fan of Ben
Shapiro. This discussion was intelligent, civil, and supremely demonstrated both of your points. To be honest, this is the first time I’m ever hearing about you, but I would love to see you have more discussions of this kind with Ben and other conservative pundits.
Hopefully you listen to more of David and others like Sam Seder to broaden your perspective. Shapiro has solid takes in a lot of cases but has huge blindspots and inconsistencies. He repeatedly claims absolute drivel like 'the west did it best when it comes to science' and tries to conflate religion with science/reason/civilization. www.juancole.com/2019/05/shapiro-science-white.html
@@kenshin1368 No! It comes to whether you have a LEFTIST or RIGHT world view. It has nothing to do with logic. You filter facts according to how you see the world.
Hol' up. How? These two hold mutually incompatible political indeals
@@jaimearviso4771 that's a pretty dumb take lol. People's perspectives aren't fixed. People aren't left or right inherently; it's relatively easy to change someone's perspective with a little time.
Eh? Ben is full of shit and literally failed to make his point.
Great watch. Thank you
Lol. So ben Shapiro apparently thinks rifles and handguns will be effective against tanks, cruise missiles and fighter jets.
Conservative here, thought it was a great interview. Fair, honest arguments from both sides. I'd love to see you on the Sunday Special, hopefully it happens 👍
Fact check Ben's statements some time, you might be surprised.
Well I was a liberal my whole life from a liberal family. Parents voted for every Democrat from Bill Clinton to Barack Obama both terms. Have one gay sister who was married last year, gave a speech at her wedding. Other sister is trans and now identifies as male. Couldn't love him more, he's never really been a girl. It took me about a year to really admit that I had changed my mind about politics. Hadn't ever been interested in it, but I knew how I felt about social issues. After college, I started looking into it more just to keep my mind learning and not going to mush. Started with the left wing guys. Pakman, Seder, Rational National, etc. I noticed they all critiqued alot of the same people, and I figured it was responsible to look at an argument from both sides. So now I was watching both sides of the aisle, as well as guys like Dave Rubin (before he flipped sides) and Joe Rogan interview people on both the right and left. I got to the point that I secretly liked the right's arguments for basically every issue better but wouldn't admit it to myself. Then I watched Larry Elder on Dave Rubin's show. I watched him tell how he was criticized for being a black conservative. I watched as he told Rubin to take the most racist thing he could think of and give an example, and proceed to lay into him for 10 minutes with every fact in the book about black crime rates and arrest/murder rates by police, all of which I fact checked. A week from that day I switched policital parties at the DMV. You're right, there is a abundance of information out there. Maybe consider that if half of a country can think one way, there might be more to it than just a bunch of racist, boomer generation white people stuck in their ways.
@@LonnyH Not a conservative but that was well said. Hopefully others will take the time to read and reflect rather than be reactionary.
@@siksaw Thank you, I appreciate it
@@siksaw
Shapiro is a lying toad. Check his 'facts' before getting excited. They may have come directly from a place that smells rather bad.
Now David has learned to comb his hair and wear a suit that fits.
Like you could pull off a cute bedhead hair look with a vintage cut suit. He actually looks great here. And people have gone overboard with those slim fit suits, they're so common at this point. Designers are going the opposite direction into a vintage shoulder pad look which does look chic.
I think he looks more lefty back then. Much more Bernie hehe :)
I like his old haircut better, it looked very handsome while still looking professional.
hnljojoilbvtgfyvgub I agree, I think he looks very handsome and the suit is charming.
David looks great and all but there's something about this clip that feels much more dated than a few years. It has a mid to late 2000s vibe.
A nuke is not weapon? What the heck have I’ve been using on COD? A kaiju creator.
David is my favorite public intellectual.
An equal army of tanks vs an equal army of AK47s, the tanks will lose out according to Shapiro and war historians (whatever that means).
Standing Rock... body armor, snipers, MRAPs, and a MISSILE LAUNCHER for christ's sake... against unarmed protesters.
Reminds me of Metal Gear Solid, that whole bit about Snake taking out a tank with nothing but grenades. They re-address it in Metal gear Solid 4 where a character says he's spoken with veterans all over the world and they all agree "Thats impossible what on Earth are you on about"
@Mike Peenus You know alot of the military would be against that and it will be dense too bomb their own country and cripple the economy and create places unlivable just go take a few guns away.
Vietcong? Afghanis against the Soviet Union and the US?
Mike Peenus that type of thinking clearly worked in Vietnam and Iraq
I have never heard Shapiro stutter this much. Well done David!
David got him on this one.
The Vapologist this was before he was trained as a speaker.
He was just a writer back then
The Vapologist yes Ben is a s..st...s..stuttering mess sometimes...
What an insightful, engaging, and civil conversation concerning an important issue of our times. There wasn’t any immature name calling or other areas of disrespect. Growing up these were the types of debates I would witness. Are there others who would like to see this type of back and forth discussion no matter the topic?
Great conversation!
"right to bear arms to prevent tyranny. We've had tyranny in this country. [Lists examples of tyranny not stopped by armed citizens]"
Way to argue against your own point there, intellectual heavy weight.
He likes to have simple answers to complex problems.Which doesn't allow for any nuance. And from what I've seen of him, he's unwilling to concede any point even to s superior argument. He's so convinced that he's always right that he comes off as stubborn and obstinate.
I was actually kinda frustrated that Pakman didn't call him out on that.
Actually slavery was ended by force of (government) arms and the rebellion of some "Free States" was aimed at maintaining that tyranny.
Lmao he makes this point as he advocates for massively increasing police presence in black neighborhoods
@Michael Brook That's actually an excellent point.
What a great debate, I would love to listen to more of you two debating! Great quality by both!
Ben Shapiro had gotten more extreme. David has stayed mostly the same.
@@paulaw3399 it must trigger you when someone isn't a partisan hack like you and makes a wholesome comment like enjoying the conversation that you have to reply how the other side is this bad person
@@lights473 I am not a hack ding dong.
What’s the point of going further when the first statistic Ben gives is a lie?
Oh man Ben Shapiro sounded like a robot that was glitching when pakman told him he was wrong about the definition of the 2nd amendment. Love it.