How One Player RUINED Countless Legacies
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Can you name a player who was never given the proper respect?
Andrei Markov 🤩🐐
Pavel Datsyuk
kovy
Fleury was done dirty by Pittsburgh
Reggie Leach. An obvious HOF'er, yet he's been ignored for years.
As a huge Kesler fan, it is surprising how quickly he is being forgotten in the NHL space. Also I would love to see the timeline had the Canucks won in 2011, Luongo and Kesler most likely don't leave, leading the Canucks to maybe not get either Horvat, Pettersson or Hughes. Boston might have the extra drive to win the 2013 or 2019 or both cup finals should they make it.
Yeah man, he was my favourite player growing up. I modelled my game after his haha. But thanks for the suggestion. A what if series would be interesting 🤔
He is in Eric Lindros HoF
2019 for sure they got robbed big time in that game 7 being at home unlike 2011 on the road but 2013 was justified cause that was in 6 games and they were hit with the injury bug harder than chicago
Had the Canucks won in 2011, they don't need Horvat, Pettersson, or Hughes.
As a bruins fan i think the team would have been broken up after the 2013-2016 seasons where they vastly underachieved in the playoffs, but again it changes everything. They probably fire Julien after their 1st round exit vs washington in 2012 and maybe the next coach gets more out of them? Anyways, i think Kesler's problem is that he was only a top end player for 3 years, 5 tops. And even then he was on Vancouver's second line. Bergeron may be a second liner but it was more of a 1A and 1B line with Krecji / Savard. Had Kesler put up more years like the 2011 season (i think he had like 44 goals and 40-50 assists) he would have gotten his due. One other thing that hurt Kesler is the fact that hes an american. I feel like europeans and crafty canadian players get extra credit by fans and writers because they feel that everything they do is smart even if they cant explain it. But those same fans see a Kessler and Backes and think they just work hard and grind the other team down.
Honestly, think Shane Doan is underrated, people see him as just that solid character and leadership guy. But the guy put up nearly 1000 points and over 400 goals while playing with numerous horrible Coyotes teams. If he had a consistently good team around him he'd be remembered as one of the best Power Forwards of his era.
Nah. He was rated just fine. He was a very good player for a very long time, but he was never great. In 21 seasons, he had only two thirty-goal seasons, and never hit a point-per-game. He made a couple of all-star games, and got a couple of honorary awards and that was about what he deserved.
@@cherkovision True. A very good player can perform well on horrible teams. A truly great player will make said horrible teams perform great.
Marion Gaborik. A younger me hated Gaborik, Oiler would always lose to Minnesota, and Gaborik would usually be the one to get the game winner. He won a cup with LA and had a solid NHL career, but I doubt the Wild will ever even retire his number, nvm end up in the HHOF
When Gaborik was on he was so good.
I loved watching him as part of those Kings Cup era teams. Quick,Doughty,Kopitar,Brownie,McNabb,Martinez,Lucic,Toffoli, I could go on... When I watch this video and think about the ideas posited, I think to myself, "Thank God, being the team sport that it is, Gaboriks name is forever inscribed on a Stanley Cup panel. Even after that plate is removed from the cup, it will be hung in a hall of hockey honor for the ages. Something small yes, yet so significant, and part of the tiny % of an Elite club of hockey players who won a SC trophy. I'm trying to remember if he was on the 12' and 14' club. That's my next destination from here...the Kings cups. Thanks for a great video that made me think.
@@yernotthebossofme1062I believe gaborik was acquired by the kings near the deadline in 14’
Well, Minnesota DID retire a number for their fans. It wouldn't surprise me
@jonathanochoa7064 Thank you, I believe you're correct. I did go watch several videos on the 2012 and 2014 teams last night. I can't believe I forgot to mention Jeff Carter too!
Well, Hossa was crazy good backchecker, his two way play was recognized by teammates and opponents, but I don't think he ever was in top 3 selke voting. But he is in HHOF, so he did get recognition he deserved.
He was an amazing back checker great point.
He wasnt anywhere near Crosby or Toews level so i dont think its relevant. Id agree that hes underrated or kinda forgotten by fans though. Maybe some of that is because he changed teams pretty frequently and the end of his career was marked by injuries. I think Ryan O'Rielly is a much better 2 way player than Hossa but id obviously rather Hossa on my team.
Hossa also wasn't a Center, so I think faceoffs are included in the total package for Selke consideration. You rarely see wingers get any love towards the Selke.
Kesler was HUGE man. A star, no doubt about it, and really zero fandom for any team played in. But go damn did we ALL knew him well when each of our team crossed path with the guy. To me, he is a playoff archetype, a MVP of many runs, DEEP ones! No rings, but never forgotten.
I feel I might also be a generational thing. Also information wasn't everywhere back them all the time; so if you started to be at an age where hockey had to take several big steps backs, you were even less informed back then without newsfeeds on smartphones, etc.
Also don't worry kids, the hockey passion can indeed be back later, in the 30s especially (it's when you realize that no, things will never get better, etc. So might as well enjoy so good okay while everything else burn eh? ;)
Bergeron also kept Kessler from that cup…
Not to mention the Sedins. Was Lupul on that team, too?
Will be grateful to bergeron forever for that
Kessler was also seriously injured going in to the 2011 Finals.
Thank god. Kesler was such a p.o.s.
This has changed recently which i am very happy about, but Mikko Rantanen for the longest time was ignored, which makes sense given hes with Mackinnon and Makar. I think that 50 goal season helped him out a lot
I would sometimes comment about Mikko Rantanen and get a reply asking who I was talking about until about 3 years ago. The dude was SEVERELY underrated. It's awesome to finally see him get the respect he deserves, given he just had that 50 goal season and is now 4th in points.
Nick Lidström did the same thing for defensemen. Lotta solid blueliners that would have won (more) Norris trophies if not for him.
did a guy named bobby orr not win 8 straight along with 2 harts 2 conn smythes 2 art rosses and he was1st 2nd or 3rd in scoring overall league wide every year Durning that time
100k subs incoming! You should do a live stream! We wanna celebrate the huge milestone you’ve accomplished! I learned so much about hockey from your well detailed videos, been here since 2020!
100k is only days away!! Keep being our fav youtuber!
Bergeron and Datsyuk were both magicians, best 2way forwards ever, there intuition was off the charts, like they could tell the future
how many selkes Datsyuk have ? Bergeron has 6 and was second place or 3rd like 6 or 7 times or something
Hope Quinn Hughes will not fall victim to the fate of being a second fiddle Canuck and win a Norris this year.
Oilers fan here. Our most under appreciated player has been and always will be Ryan Smyth. His impact on the community was huge. 10/10 human being and hockey player. He gave us something to cheer for during our darkest era
I love the fact that you make a video about Patrice, and yet I think you mentioned Pavel Datsyuk's name more times over all. How's that for leaving a lasting impression!! LGRW!
I'm so glad someone finally made a video shedding light on just how good Luongo was, people forget but there was like a 5 - 6 year stretch in the 2000s where he was arguably the best goalie in the world. There's a reality where Luongo wins the Vezina in 2004 and 2007, along with the Hart and Ted Lindsay in 2007. He's still considered like a top 20 goalie of all time probably and was a first ballot hall of famer, but if he wins those awards I think his people's perception of where he ranks among the all time greats changes considerably.
I’d say Clayton Keller gets pretty overlooked due to the fact he plays for the Coyotes.
roooob, getting close to 100k!!!
Let's gooooo
David Krejci is the most impacted by Bergeron. Everytime he stepped in on the 1st line and got pp time he went over a ppg. Krejci also led the entire league in plus minus twice despite never going over a ppg so make it what you will.
Marian Hossa criminally underrated. And when CHI got him in the 2010 cup year ppl legitimately didn't want him bc they thought he was cursed after the whole lose in pit, then lose in det thing. Also the decline really started when he had to retire early.
he sin the hof
"you would have to stay up past midnight to watch the game" ... Poor east coast people ... Not like me for whom those games start at 4 am and still is able to watch...
Being a Euro fan sucks, but I'll be damned if I missed any games!
My favorite player growing up was Thomas Vanek, point per game scorer and was a key piece in the last great era of Sabres hockey. Never really hear his name in hockey discourse nowadays.
Bruh rn filip forseberg is so slept on
The most ever robbed player of proper recognition because of location, time zones and television was Guy Hebert ....I know his stats aren't mind blowing but every night was full of highlight real saves !!! there wouldn't be enough time to show them for those years spent there...
he got an appearance on the mighty ducks cartoon so i think he has one of the best trophies ever
I love the fact that in a video where you talk about Berg, you mention Datsyuk more times! Lol
The man is a legend and is the 1b to Bergeron imo
How about this: Scott Stevens never won a Norris Trophy, playing his whole career for Washington and New Jersey (outside of one season in St. Louis), and you can't go much further east than that without ending up in the drink.
As for the Selke Trophy, it's kind of hokey to begin with. To judge a player's worth for the Selke, you have to watch him game after game to see his ability, because many of the skills required are subtle and only come out after continued watching. You can't do that for every team in the league, so voters just vote on reputation and once a guy wins, they'll vote for him over & over again.
Mark Stone is an example. I'm a sort of fan of Ottawa and have watched a lot of their games over the years. I was singing Stone's praises on hockey fan sites for years and saying he was a top-10 player in the league and most reactions from other posters was "Who?" because who watches the Senators? Yet you had to watch them every night to see his value. Around the league the professional hockey people knew, which showed up when he went on the trade market and he suddenly became a big name because every other team wanted him, but until then nobody outside of Ottawa even knew who he was. Not saying Bergeron wasn't a great player, but he played on Boston, which is a team that gets a lot of attention, but who's to say there wasn't another player (like Barkov) on a team that nobody was watching who was actually better while the lazy writers just ticked off a name because they ticked it off the year before?
Matthias Ohlund during his years with the canucks probably overlooked by many. He couldnt shoot as hard as salo or score as much as jovo but he still put up points as a defenseman and consistently lived by the sword when in doubt smash the guy with a big clean hit. Always had the play the body first frame of mind and he could fight. A defensively responsible reliable swede with more hits than abba
Ryan Kessler was my favorite player in one of the nhl games
Most underrated from my team is 100% Mikael Backlund. The guy is a stud and a class act. I’ve met him a couple times and he’s such a down to earth guy. He’s one of the best grinders the flames have had tbh
IMO Alexander Semin is known but highly underrated, was just beautiful to watch him play
also thanks for making me aware of how good luongo was, I hated him because he seemed to be pretty bad at the end in vancouver? I saw so man 5 hole goals on him, but he seemed to have had awesome saves (and stats) nontheless
Total clickbait of a thumbnail, thought this was gonna be about Matt Cooke 💀
hahaha straight up so did i
@@Brenleysage Looks like he changed it now
this could be an argument for any award and career
“Not flashy”…yet Datsyuk was one of the flashiest and still deserved this award for sure once maybe twice when it was awarded to Bergeron. In fact, Datsyuk deserved the Hart and Selke in years when he got neither. Datsyul made Canadian writers (doubters) look foolish throughout his career, just like defenders. Maybe, it was his lack of English, his preternatural skill, or his hard yet sportsmanlike play that rubbed the old guard the wrong way. Despite the naysayers, he’s still the most influential (in terms of players imitating him) hockey star since 2000. McDavid, Makar, or Kucherov could surpass him…maybe…but none of those names are as good both ways.
Well said!! Dats changed what we all thought was possible in hockey. He is a secretly hidden history changer! And, as you mentioned, the best sportmans probably to ever play the game. I never saw him gloat, or down play another player!
Canucks fan in Montreal sleeping late to watch games. Kessler was a beast and was probably shadowed by the Sedin's.... also a Montreal fan, when you can listen to the 7pm game and 10pm games why not ! I would say Thomas Pleckanec, one of the best defensive centers.
You and I have to be close to the same age so I also remember prime Kesler, and agree with you that many people forget how good he was.
Even though he won three cups, I feel Patrick Sharp may also deserve a bit of a shoutout in this discussion. Sick player with very good numbers and all-around game, I think he was more quietly an incredibly important part of those teams.
Hey rob idea.
Ovechkin is so close, but yet so far from Gretzky record. Do you think when the NHL had a lock out is coming back to effect ovi ? He would of bin so much closer to the record maybe if that lock out did not happen ?
Had an impact for sure, Between the lockouts and covid shortened seasons, he missed some games. I still think the death of his father last year has had the biggest effect, he hasn't been the same since then.
Get this man to 100k already! He deserves it so much!
Thanks brother 🫡
I think right now Brayden point is overlooked because he is on a team with Stamer, vasy and Kucherov
MacKinnon deserved the Hart, not Hall.
To me, Kesler wasn't known just for his two way game or offense. He was known for doing anything you could want. Shutdown top 6er at 5 on 5? Yes. Gritty player to spark spirit? Yes. Offensive PP player? Yes. 5 on 5 offensive chances and production? Yes. PK? Yes. He's a forward who could play line 1 on every possible role and do good at it. Thats what I think makes him a special player. He has not elite talent again but to me has above NHL avarage in every catagory.
I watched the 2011 Stanley cup run by the Canucks, and was particularly tuned in to the Stanley Cup finals against Boston. It seemed the Bruins were allowed to get away with murder (Marchand's back-breaking intent-to-injure hit on one of Vancouver's key players mid-run) while the Canucks were getting called for more penalties of the, shall we say, "iffy" variety than Boston was. Eastern bias perhaps? After all, the Bruins certainly presented as a much larger merch market (and therefore more royalties for the league) than the Canucks did - being that Vancouver's fan base was largely limited to BC while Boston's encompassed the entire eastern seaboard.
But the most baffling event of this entire series was game seven of the finals - the most important game of Luongo's career. Stellar throughout the entire 2011 playoffs, Luongo looked rather ordinary in game seven, allowing four goals that he arguably should have been able to stop. the rest of the Canucks team played their hearts out in this losing cause, dropping a 4-0 decision to Boston and thereby the Stanley cup. So what happened? Did Luongo come down with the flu? Was his drink clandestinely spiked with sedatives? Or were there even more nefarious 1919 Chicago "Black Sox"-type mob-influence tricks at play? Did somebody "GET TO" Luongo? Considering the diametrically-opposite night-and-day differences in Luongo's performance that night in his most-important game vs. the rest of his playoff run, these are questions that needed to be asked - but apparently were not.
look at the box scores dont matter how rough the bruins were they dominated the series after game 2 powerplays were also equal in the series u had equal opportunity to be jus as aggressive refs tend to keep powerplays even in the playoffs regardless of who is rougher its playoff hockey u guys never eeven tried to be as rough thats on you
So close to 100k
Robert Luongo is not the Hall of Fame because he is a classic choker . The moment you need the most, he will choke. He almost lost Canada the Gold by choking in the third period😢
While I don't disagree, Bobby Luo is actually in the hall of fame he was inducted last year
@@Outta-hz1ej bummer
That luo stat spread is crazy! its so much more impressive that he played that well under a shit team if his team was better he mightve even put up a .940+
Kucherov literally going back and forth with Mackinnon for the point leader and all we hear about is how good Mackinnon is even though objectively he has had the better roster for the first half of the season. Literally only because Kucherov plays in the southeast.
Ryan Kesler certainly altered Ryan Johansen's career in that 2017 Western Conference Final with the chippy antics behind the play. An aggravated thigh injury at 24...and the kid wouldn't play in the SCF thereafter, and without a Mike Fisher, a Preds team was then forced to center Sissons vs Crosby.
You might have given some props to the guy who the trophy is named after: Frank Selke.
How to overcome east coast bias:
Live in Europe so most of the games start at unhumanly times and sometimes you can even watch the last period of a west coast game when you get up in the morning because it startet at 4:30 AM
Kesler is still pissed about 2011, and as a Canucks fan i gotta respect that because i feel that same
Well we might see the East bias this year in the Hart trophy voting. Kucherov would have that advantage over MacKinnon, though I HAVE to say that Kooch has been on fire all season too!
Another more recent one is the 21-22 season where McDavid had 123 points vs Matthews’s 106 on a better team but guess who won the hart
While I agree that Barkov could definitely win a Selke in the next few years, it'll definitely come with some HUGE competition from Anthony Cirelli
I totally forgot about Kesler...
NHL really needs to change the way the awards are voted upon.
For the oilers the for me the most underrated player is Sam ganger a good 2 way player he wouldn’t rack up goals or flashy goals but he made a impact on the ice and off
Luongo honestly shoud've been the Vezina winner in 2011. I agree 100% ab Thomas getting it in 2009 but man 2011 should've been lou. Yes he and the canucks did cough up a 3-2 series lead at the worst possible time being in the final since they obviously could've won the cup in game 6 in Boston but the vezina is a regular season award and the canuck players in front of him did have a lot of serious ailments they'd played through like kesler, edler, erhoff, higgins, hamhuis, bieksa, etc. And kesler yah was a guy who quietly dominated the 2010s decade my god do i miss him. Such as badass who'd do anything for hsi teammates and superiors. I was never a fan of the canucks, ducks or panthers but my god these takes on these 2 guys i would say are pretty accurate.
wtf no how many goalies had a sv percentage as high as .938 before 2011 ... only domink hasek one time ......... and it was a .938 thomas set records he was also 38 and carried the bruins your delusional he won the conn Smyth to quit being biased
seriously what is wrong with u thomas set records in 2011 he had the highest sv percentage ever at that point and time vancouver had a beter regular season team they were first in the league boston was 6th lou was not the superior goalie that year get over it man thomas is a borderline hhof because of that single sseason borderline as in he wont get in but hes close if he had one more year like that it would be hard to reject a goalie with 2 conn Smyths
2.11 and .928 is nowhere near as good as a 2.00 and .938 your crazy
Love Luongo, but absolutely not. That was a record setting season by Thomas at the time and will probably go down as one of the greatest seasons by a goalie ever
@@PCGaming300 there is no questioning that at all i mean it was a very tight race between those 2 and rinne
Ryan Kesler was a punk and a loser. Imagine losing in the gold medal game and then next year Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals in the same arena lol
Please make a video on Canadian bias. Think of the countless European and Russian players that got stiffed come awards time due to this.
I wanna see a video on the prime of Corry Perry. When he played, not only was he dropping the mits a lot, I mean he's avaraged around 115 pims a season. But he also was a very good offensive player. My man almost had 100 points and had 50 goals in the dead puck era. If that level of talent was translated today. He would probably go down as the best grinder of all time. To me he still is.
Those PIMS weren't mostly from fighting. Most of them came from sticking guys behind the play and diving
@@Outta-hz1ejYeah, he would have done well in Boston.
As a kid I rooted for both Luongo on the Panthers and Brodeur & the Devils. Legends forever.
mr 2 goals against on 20 shots a night for 20 years Brodeur is the most overrated nhler ever
I don't think he's that underrated, but us Sharks fans were upset about Jumbo Joe being left off the NHL top 100 players list when that list came out.
No wonder why the Sharks never get more respect they truly deserve. Talented Sharks like Patrick Marleau, Joe Pavelski, and Brent Burns also deserved to be on these top 100 NHL lists, in my opinion.
none of them get in over malkin@@TheRecklessMetalhead
Probably because Joe is a career loser, his attitude prevented the Sharks from winning a championship.
If only i had knew! Its all Patrice's fault!
Nick backstrom on the caps underrated. Ovi would be nowhere close to his goal record without backstrom
People easily forget how good was thomas plekanec with the habs
Still waiting for Mogilny to make the HoF. Too many reasons he should've been inducted, yet here we are.
Another comfirmation of east bias. Iginla also got snubbed 96 points 52 goals on an awful flames team lost to Jose Theodore.
Barkov in Toronto wouldn't even be counted in the top 25 players in the league and would be called a bum.
Be honest here, the leafs have the greatest goal scorer(statistical pace) in the history of the league and he is regularly not even ranked top 5 in current players.
This is akin to Brad Park and Bobby Orr.
Taking top honors years in a row made 0rr famous. Coming in second for all these same years had Park completely overshadowed. Not nearly as known.
Sorry, Luongo was a sieve. Yes he made amazing saves but once a goal went through he was completely shook and done for the night.
I always felt Vincent Lacavelier never got as much respect as he deserved.
I remember them all!!!!
Bergeron was great, but if there wasn’t an east coast bias in the league Kopitar and Toews would have way more.
I don't get the title of the video.
How did bergeron ruin countless legacies?
Sounds like he don't know what he's talking about.
Bergeron won last year, even though he wasn't the best. The other two finalists had better numbers if I remember correctly, and Pavs I know had way better numbers. The Selke is not about best defensive forward, it's about most popular player.
More voting power to players and coaches, and away from reporters is the solution.
Yeah it's a shame Luongo was hidden on the west coast while playing for NYI and FLA :)
He was instantly traded to Florida which was the smallest market in the league. Soon after he played most of his career in Van
FLA was a tiny market back then, no one was watching their games. Also I cant remember if he mentioned it in the video, but there's a huge bias towards players who have won it in the past, especially if its a guy like Brodeur.
barkov is going to win the selke this year, i don’t even think it’s close
I think you're giving Kesler way too much credit. He only had the one 40 goal season, was usually around 20-25, and never broke 30 again. He made a name for himself by being annoying to play against, going for cheap shots, and a few times a season crossing the line; he was never a premier player, just an above average, consistent second liner, and there's no shame in that. Heck even his Selke season was the same year Corey Perry won the Hart, if that reveals anything about the league at the time.
Don’t like Boston but gonna miss berg he was an great player really knew how to strip the puck
Luongo was robbed so bad. Brodeur had all the boomers of the time drooling over him and NJ
I think Bergeron was great and wished many times he was Wing, but I think Datsyuk was the greatest 2 way forward ever. His Competition with Zetterberg as best all around Forward on team probably hurt his chances in being undisputed best ever
Of course Datsyuk was so gifted offensively his 2 way play took hits also
I personally don't believe the east coast bias thing. Maybe decades ago there was, but in this day and age with cable tv and internet players don't go unnoticed just because they play on the west coast.
I think tv is still a big contributor. If anything, social media is helping address it. But again, most accounts are based out of the east, so it’s still the same issue
Joey Kocur was our hero in Detroit. No Respect. Way more than just a bad ass fighter.
I think Kesler is one of the best players to never be admitted to the HOF
I think the reason Kesler won't make it is due more to injuries than anything else. Yeah, he played over 1000 games, but the second half of his career he was half the player he was in his prime because he was always hurt. So he really only had a handful of HOF type years out of a long career.
0:03 Pavel Datsyuk would like to have a word with you.
Totally agree, Pavel was the best at everything. his hockey i.q. was off the charts
as well as his skill level, never be another one like him!!!. for anyone who is not familiar with him, check out his highlights here on you tube
James Bondler
Technically isn’t Florida on the east coast too?
Yes for sure. But then you have to consider small and big market teams. Especially back in the 2000’s, Florida was a small market team
A lot of Canucks fans don’t even like Kesler 😂
MVP doesn't mean you are the best... Could mean you are second best on a far worse team lol
Lmao greatest defensive forward is not the same as greatest two way forward.
In my experience, Canucks players especially get no respect. They’re either ignored or hated and the media fawns over Worst Cast Ontario and east coast teams whether they earn it or not. If you’re not going to stay up to watch west coast games, don’t be a sports writer.
no canucks fans are the problem u act like every one on your team is 10x as good as they are every single season even while rebuilding u guys also act like every 3rd round pick is a future star then they end up busting in the ahl canucks players are homed more then anybody else i swear
Guy Carbs was the best 2 way forward of all time.
Defensive-Forward Selke? Please NHL we need a Offensive-Defenseman (Bobby Orr) Trophy! The Norris should be for the best Defenseman and not the highest scoring one.
Bobby Orr was a fantastic two way defenceman though, not just an elite scorer. The man was a complete player through and through I wouldn't name the offensive D trophy after him
Name it after Coffey
@@izaksmith538 no wtf why when did coffey lead the league in scoring when did coffey win 8 straight norris trophies coffey is not in the conversation for best dman of all time period when did coffey win 2 conn Smyths when did coffey win 2 art ross trophies when did coffey win 2 hart trophies when was coffey the best player the world has ever seen he was never even the best player in the league for a single nightis coffey top 5 in point per game no he isnt orr is for all players not just dman
Patric elias
Definitely Steve Larmer, he should have his number retired and be in the HOF
Larmer rubbed too many people the wrong way because of his involvement with the Player's Association. He definitely should be in the Hall, but he made too many enemies.
There is not a single universe in which Ryan Kesler has 5 Selke's. I preface this by saying I am a die hard Canucks fan who was a teenager in 2011. The guy had ONE elite season. He is by far the most overrated Canuck of all-time.
The Canucks are goatted
100 k by Valentine’s Day. If I’m right the canucks will win the cup.
Sergi Zubov