INTROVERTED THINKING (ISTP, INTP) - Through The Lens of Carl Jung
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- čas přidán 20. 06. 2021
- In this video, I am talking about INTROVERTED THINKING through the lens of Carl Jung, discussing parts of the descriptions in "Psychological Types".
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What else about Ti rings true to you?
Ti can also struggle with saying or thinking "hey if it worked for me than it will work for you type thinking sometimes which is not always true with the individual.
@@RevRideReason Why do you think that is the case?
@@INFJinxed because it's coming from one's own experience and everyone's different. I once made the mistake into thinking if I gave my friend whom I believe to be an ENFJ the same experience regarding how and why I like to push my car at the race course with him in the passenger seat than not only will he learn how to be a faster driver but he will also feel the way I do about driving fast around tight corners comfortably in general. I was wrong and he absolutely hated me for doing that to him and was really freaked out about it for months on end. I really felt horrible about it afterwards and quickly realized that it didn't work for him as it done for me. What I learned from that was as individuals our interests will always vary and even down to those little details in driving although we're both interested in track driving... still quite different our approach will be regardless.
@@RevRideReason I agree, there is not a one size fits all for anyone with anything. It's possible that if it worked for me, it can work for someone else, and they can try it to see, but I always say, this is what worked for me. Try it or not, I don't really care. Just don't complain to me about your problem again if you didn't at least try it out.
@@lishayost144 I like your approach with how you delivered the message. I'll adopt it as my own moving forward. I struggle with this way to often.
I definitely agree with liking it when others can independently learn and do things, figure it out for themselves. I don't want to have to hold people's hand through things. I want to give them a few pointers, tips, info, a foundation to start, but then go do the thing and leave me alone lol!
And being annoyed when people don't recognize the value or importance of a current conclusion I've come to. I could be wrong, but at least investigate what I'm saying. I will investigate what you're saying.
I can definitely relate to most of this as an infj. Obviously it's not my first function but I still feel my Ti quite strongly in certain situations. Thanks for another concise video. 😁👍
Came here to say this. Another INFJ. 🤗
You actually explained it very well! Thank you,i couldn't find a good explanation anywhere!
An INTPs favorite subject. lol
being doubtful is a very very good example. i always thought, because Ti is my auxillary function, i should be more sure of myself when it comes to argue facts. i always thought of Ti in that sense. but i am not. i won't argue if i am not sure that what i'm going to tell you isn't right but because i am kinda skeptical about everything, even though i am an entp, arguing with people who obsesses over their arguments and argue just to be right is so so soo hard for me. i don't even care most of the time. hence i doubted my mbti type for a very long time. am i looking from the right perspective at this Ti? is this how i should be thinking?
Yes, as I said, Ti types tend to be more skeptical or to doubt things more.
Add Ne on top of that and it makes you even more likely to question ideas.
Carl Jung describes Ti (introverted thinking) as “subjective” logic because it is the “logic of the subject” and not of the object, hence why it is directed “inwards” so to speak. However, this presumption is incorrect. Ti is about the logic of language, which is universal and is predicated on the following statement connectives: conjunction (“and”), disjunction (“or”), negation (“not”), conditional (“if . . . then”), and biconditional (“if and only if”). For example: if i say the apple AND the orange are ripe, then it is only true that both of them are ripe, and it is not true that neither of them are ripe. This notion of exclusivity is what conditional logic is based on and is absolutely objective in the sense that it’s universally in/valid for everybody, regardless of what language they speak.
Ti -> deals with low resolution data that can be collapsed down into binaries once the binary is determined. From there, the status of an object can either be determined as definitionally one thing or definitionally not that said thing, but never definitionally one thing AND definitionally not that said thing co-currently (for ex: it is true that either A = B or A != B, but A cannot both = B and not = B. If A = B and A = C, then it must be the case that B = C)
When trying to determine the validity of a statement, Ti users will often ask themselves "what condition must be satisfied in order for the entire statement to be valid as a whole?" If the necessary condition isn't met, then the statement itself would automatically be invalid (at least for the sake of argumentation)
If you are talking about classical logic, true logic, then extraverted thinking is what you want. Logic is about the coherence of verbal language and thought with Reality (Te/Se).
The original logic was created to seek and demonstrate the truth. Logic by nature is something objective and not subjective.
LOL... Ti more likely to say, "It depends on the situation!" I actually have a clip of myself saying, "It depends on the situation!" from an old video of me taking an online MBTI test, and I've inserted that clip into other videos, as well as posted it as a comment in occasional online discussions!
Omg I am loving this!
Yes, I am always saying it depends on the situation! - intp
All introverted functions would say that - introverted is subjective.
INTP here
The idea that everything depends on context is spot on. My Ti is always obsessed with understanding facts and arguments, she never stops looking for reasons why the same fact can support n-arguments
But I don't feel much need to express my conclusions outwardly. If an explanation satisfies me, that is enough. I have no interest in changing anyone's opinion. After all, there are n-paths through which different individuals can reach the same conclusion. And n-ways in which the same individual reaches different conclusions
What irritates me most about people with Te-hero is the idea that there is a single "truth". No, definitely not. "The Truth" is a social myth
"There is no such thing as truth"
oh also thanks a lot for the video it was very clear and explanatory.
Wow... That really explains the whole behavior of a friend of mine who is INTP.
Sometimes after some time when we are discussing a topic that we both care about very deeply, he just stops trying to convince me of his view. He doesn't say that i am right. He just always ends like "Maybe you're right, maybe you're not. I don't know right now." It's very unsatisfying for me, cause I want him to be interested and this leaves me feeling guilty for pushing the discussion too far so that he looses interest. We usually never come to a combined conclusion then and in the end of the conversation, I feel like we maybe had a great time sharing ideas, but we both didn't convince each other of our PoV and it often leaves me with a kind of shallow feeling afterwards. So, when i really want to use my Ni to get to the bottom of the topic we are discussing, he sometimes runs out of variables and the conversation is over.
He is one of the few people in my life that i can deep-talk with for long hours though. And of course i know that changing your mind takes time and usually needs us to reflect on the topic and the new logic for some more days or weeks depending on the weight of the topic. But like you said too, i feel like i'm a little faster in accepting flaws in my thinking and replacing them with the new corrected rule. And i'm also more willing to challenge my rules via defending them logically in a discussion and standing by them as long as no one can offer a more accurate rule. But this of course, like you mentioned too, is due to the extraverted attitude of my Thinking.
Another thing that i always noticed is him usually not understanding different experience levels. We often discussed a special topic for days or weeks. If he talks to someone who is a complete stranger to this topic, he doesn't explain the way he got to this conclusion. He just confronts them with the conclusion and does not understand why no one else sees this the way he does, even though it might have took him weeks to come to those conclusions about a topic. He got a lot better in this field though over the years. I guess this aspect grows with his development of his inferior Fe and also with his massively growing knowledge about all kind of stuff.
Great Video INFJinxed.
Your content here is real gold for me.
Wow, this is a really cool analysis!
From the perspective of a Ti user, I can also say I understand this: "He just confronts them with the conclusion and does not understand why no one else sees this the way he does."
Not so much the not understanding why people don't get the same conclusion (because Fe helps me see their point of view) but the part about finding it difficult to explain the train of thought and how I got there. And I usually get very frustrated that it's hard for me to do it.
INTPs are naturally like this but since Te is somehow still supporting their Ti, they will get better in time.
That said, I also appreciate it when Te parent does this mesmerizing job of explain the train of thought and guiding others along.
@@INFJinxed Ahh, i see. From the outside it looks the same. But your explanation makes much more sense, since otherwise there wouldn't be a drive to improvement over time. Thanks for your insights.
I can absolutely relate to this feeling of not being able to explain something adequately enough. Coming to a conclusion usually is a whole different process than the later explanation. So explaining something takes another step of redefining the learned into small understandable chunks. I guess Te really helps with this since it is usually the way we store data anyway.
INTPs rarely come to a final conclusion about things. It can happen, but not for very many things. There is only one thing that I am sure of, and I cannot necessarily convince others of this, even though I am convinced of this one thing.
From my point of view, it is impossible to ever prove anything from one person to another, it depends on what the subject is, but even philosophically, if you want to get crazy, we could say that we can't even prove that we exist, but if you have the viewpoint of "I think therefore I am," then you will believe you exist. So if both parties believe the physical world is in existence, then you can mostly prove most physical things, especially if they are visible to the eye. But even with the way technology is headed, even what we see might be deceiving.
An intp might become done talking with you because we want to think more about what you have said. Personally, I can think long and hard about something, and it can take years. I have tons of interests, so my interest in things is always changing, so I tend to learn bits and pieces of things over time and over a long period of time I will then know a lot about a subject, but in a short amount of time, I can only learn so much about one subject. And if another point of view presents itself, more research needs to be done which at some point cannot be done in a conversation.
We also might get tired of talking about the same thing and want to move on to a different topic (Ne), especially if we have found that we have obtained the amount of information from you on the topic that will get us to the next step in our researching, and then we can come talk about it a bit more later. Personally, I have a limit for how long I can argue with someone on a topic. And in the middle of a conversation, it can be hard to access all I know on a topic and will have to have some time to think about it and then later on I will remember something that is stored in my brain and I can talk about it with you again later. Often times, I know there are many reasons why I believe what I do, but I can't always think of them at the drop of a hat. For me, I'm better with writing emails back and forth rather than conversing in person, especially when in an argument.
Also, remember that your intp friend does not represent all intps. Everyone of every personality type is different.
We enjoy debating and brainstorming with other minded people maybe as much as like minded ones. I don't feel the need to agree with every opinion my friends have, nor do I feel the need to impose mine on them.
The friends I value most are actually the ones that can call me out on my BS.
@@lishayost144 Justice disagrees with you. It requires you to prove who you are by your identity. That's the problem with so-called "INTPs", they don't like facts. They like the possibilities. A single fact immediately cancels out several possibilities.
This is one of the reasons why I disagree with MBTI and Carl Jung. A personality type that doesn't like facts, seems like a wrong personality.
well said, totaly agree ixxp
One way of contrasting Ti with Te is that Ti is interesting in the understanding of the data or abstract idea where Te is interesting in deciding what must be in the external world. So Te is interested in control of what must be according to its reasoning while Ti is interested in the How and Why of understanding through reasoning. Ti here.
Now I see why I sometimes think I'm using Te. They both are similar but go to different directions
Thinking is thinking. The differences between Te and Ti are less than are advertised, because we can only talk from a personal experience.
INTP here and I too sometimes go "Did I just use Te???" but no. Or rather, yes, but that doesn't suddenly change my type. A high function thinker will use both, because to not do so is to appeal to a narrower audience. One of the first things you learn as a high Ti user is that you have to prove yourself in SOME way or no one ever cares about your truth. That doesn't mean Te is how our brain interprets and is soothed by pure thinking problems.
Pure thinking exists externally, but it's how we as individual humans react to it that dictates whether we prefer to see the Ti or the Te side of pure, out-in-the-world thinking subjects. Ti or Te only exists in the minds of humans. Everything that exists outside of the minds of humans is pure thinking and logic, cause and effect. We just have to have these (E vs I) handles so we can move concepts around between brains in a manageable way.
What jung books are you refering too
could you do an ennagram 8 explained video ?
I am planning to do more enneagram videos and explain the rest that I haven’t talked about yet 😊
The reason I'm "always right" ! lol... jk 😉
🤣 (it depends) is literally my most said words. This video was great 👍I also notice that I could get into the "this is how it is and this is how it works as well but now that I'm thinking about it, it does seem when I do that that it's coming from a place of just knowing that it will. Maybe it's just what Ti doms do naturally after time, which is utilized that background Te... very interesting
@명작 희승 lol
Ti is my secondary function, ENTP. Ignoring ENTP’s. Ah? :)