Well.. This Is Officially A Scam
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- čas přidán 26. 04. 2024
- Escape From Tarkov players were lied to. Don't treat BSG like they didn't know what they were doing.
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"It's not a DLC, it's a feature" has the same vibe as "it's not a lootbox, it's a surprise mechanic".
"its not a waste of money and devs, its a live service program".
"It's not equipment, it's gems."
If I played Tarkov I would be willing to rationalize it as "okay, this is basically a completely separate game mode that's much more work and more of an ongoing commitment than the usual season pass stuff, by that logic I can understand them making it a separate purchase that doesn't qualify for the Free DLC offer."
The problem is they tried to pull a laundry list of bullshit with that new overpriced edition, so that makes people a lot less receptive to the one part of it that MIGHT have been reasonable by itself.
but even more of a scam, since it's an entire feature with it's own game mechanic, the other is just gambling
it can easily be argued that PvE is not a DLC, seeing as a DLC is extra content for the game. PvE is not extra content for the base game seeing as it has zero impact on the base game, wich would not make it a DLC.
But what about Arena people say, well that would also be as easy to argument for it being a DLC. Arena will have impact on the base game, that is what they have said. And that makes it a DLC.
Finally, I've escaped.
The real way to escape Tarkov is to stop playing or don't even start. How meta
Come join Star Citizen. For decades, they are open on how expensive their pay to win ships are and some of their ships are +$1k USD and been making millions for decades. Plus no released game. Rejoice to Star Citizen!!
@@BoydofZINJ sounds as good as the recycled cods
@@Priceless406 join an honest community and believe Chris Roberts and Star Citizen when they will charge you thousands of USD on pay to win ships for decades. At least they are honest
Get back in the dungeon
TBH in the end who cares if it's a "DLC" or a "feature", it's still 250$ for game content, like virtual content, the price point itself raises every red flag possible despite every possible explanation. I guess this controversy is a pretty good showing of the absolute greed of these devs because they can't even argue properly showing that they're just in a denial of "we tried very hard to gouge you from your money because we LOVE money"
This is what I see as the long term impact. The reputation damage isn’t going to go away. I don’t see how BSG or specifically Nikita launches any other product, ever, without this being referenced and discussed. The problems are so wide spread that non-Tarkov content creators are even tracking the issue.
Violating your UK-company’s obligations to UK trade laws was a braindead move. Doubling down by insulting your consumers is a ‘dropped as a child’ move.
@@nicholasbreecher9315 agree, they screwed up the worst possible way, I guess it's game over for them, time for them to move on and reconvert elsewhere far from game dev
The sad thing is most people dont even think about the consequences of supporting this business model with their 250 $ purchase on the new edition. Many people will buy it because many people are simply morons and we get shit on by companies because of those morons.
You aren’t just getting PVE wtf y’all on
@@realbr1koo yeah but there’s also smoothbrains who will rent cheat clients for monthly fees and regularly rebuy the game with bans and never realize that the cheats they’re using are what are preventing them from getting better.
These smoothbrains don’t have any form of analytical skills. They genuinely don’t think before spending. If you ever talk to one online they’re difficult to hold a conversation with because they can’t draw connections.
The fact the tried pulling this shit in the first place and deleted text from their webpage and other shady stuff like that is enough reason for me to never touch there products again no matter how they try and spin it they have shown there true colours now.
Their*
also the fact, we were able to run "localhost" servers for ages (even for classic wow before TBC launched). You just put the server IP as your home PC, and given the game can host the server, you don't need anything else.
They literally have the tools to do so, and I bet modders will do that day 1.
The fact that it's made and owned by russian company that refuses to put it on Steam should've been enough
@@noii1524thats a big red flag. Having off Steam allows them to do whatever they want and get away with it, plus they are less restricted by any laws
The DLC that Killed Tarkov
you mean feature xD
but to them it not DLC.
Feature*
nahh. the people that play this game regularly already spent over a hundred dollars on this game spending another 200 after years is nothing
@@luxemier it's the principal. I had no problem buying EOD to support with the development (even though it was always kinda scuffed) since I believed that not only was it supporting them but in the future I would get all DLC for free. Seemed pretty good since I very much enjoy the game. No way I am spending more after that was just a lie and they defend it like this
“It will be available at the release, we promise”
Thats exactly why these scumbags keep the game in “early access” for a decade. Legal grey zone
nikita said it himself. "you can keep a game in beta state for atleast 5 years to justify bad mechanics and malfunctions." source: /watch?v=aGauDp2cYNQ
@@grubby55 And who to blame? Its the gamers actually
@@grubby55 Dayz. Early release. ON paper, you too can fund the game, and make it 20x better than every before with every dollar helping!
Stockholders in practice. "YAy! Now that we've made all the money the game was gonna make being a month, as a 10 year long early access, lets siphon the money to go on vacation!"
@@SivTeaze One of the worst things about being a gamer is how much shoveled shit other gamers will accept, which means things never get better.
Funpimps taking notes rn
If it’s “not a dlc it’s a feature” then it should be free regardless. Company sells DLC externally from the base game which adds “extra” content which means it’s a DLC. So if they literally say it’s a “Feature” then it also means that it’s part of the base game so it should be free, so they be scummy.
dlc or not, i cant believe theyre making ppl pay for dlc before the game is even released
And people will suck it up because they're addicted to the game
Ask Ark Survival Evolved xD Scorched Earth was released in Early Access, these mfs
My favorite comment on the EFT subreddit is
"It's not DLC. It's special military operation."
Demilitarised local conflict
🤘
Your wallet has been annexed
There was a referendum and everything
Special Monetization Operation
Based subreddit.
So, they basically use logic "we still in beta, so this is not DLC, and we can do whatever we want because we are in beta"
These kind of games never leave beta state because it allows them to make these ridiculous claims
The problem is there are suckers that will still buy this.
/watch?v=aGauDp2cYNQ watch this with subtitles and read what nikita says. "keep game 5 years or more in beta state to justify bad gameplay mechanics and malfunctions"
its actually really close to being released. eft is an incredible game. they just fucked up big time with this new edition of the game. but what they achieved in eft for an indie dev team is remarkable and is more impressive than any triple a studio.
@@alexandern5296 🤡
@@alexandern5296 lol
"We observe your dissatisfaction"
Yeah I bet you do. You observe it reclined in your chair with a cold beer in hand.
1) DLC = Downloadable Content which is additional content created for a video game, distributed through the Internet. By definition even an update that adds something can technically be considered DLC.
2) Switching definitions doesn't save you from the lie and deceit.
3) Nothing merits such a high price tag. They're hoping that people forgotten about games releasing with offline and online features for $60.
basically what they are saying is, since the game didn't release, you can't release additional content to an unreleased game. Logic proof russian snake language.
dlc pretty much coined for paid content updates or patches something you need to download to keep playing the game online not really called dlc
Charging hundreds of dollars for dlc's in an unreleased game, what a clown fiesta.
Are any of these people saying the same about that space game that charges literal thousands of usd for a virtual fucking spaceship?
@@etherealboomslang991 People have said all kinds of shit about SC so yes. The big difference though is the communication. Its also possible to get most of those ships in game. I have a love/hate relationship with SC because of these shenanigans but hope it becomes a game in my lifetime lol. You wont see me buying a thousand+ dollar ship tho.
@@etherealboomslang991 star citizen has a much bigger budget compared to Tarkov because of the whales spending thousands on ships. They are also constantly fixing bugs and adding new content. You’re also much less likely to encounter an aimbotter in a game about flying around in spaceships
theyre trying to market it as a supporters edition that replaces EoD which is the original supporters edition.
All they're doing is throwing the fiesta. It's the clowns that pay for it. 😅
This “PvE isnt DLC. DLC in our understanding…” is like selling apples but when the customer gets an strawberry instead and they complain u go like “but a apple in our understanding is a red fruit” this isnt how it works bruh
Literally this.
They're straight up going
"[Factual information/objective definition] isn't actually that way! Our [Subjective opinionated viewpoints playing on best interests] says so!"
Piss off.
Reminds me when apple sold sapphire which was actually glass because they had a "special" glass they called Sapphire™, not to be confused with actual sapphire.
Well, uh..
strawberries are berries
@@PixyEmstrawberries are nuts though.
@@DosonTheGreatYeah and they did try to make sapphire glass but couldn’t. The United States govt tried to make a massive piece of sapphire glass (we can create sapphire in labs) and of course couldn’t get a large enough clear piece to use in an observational system for a spy plane. (If I recall correctly)
It’s funny because they actually did try to make sapphire glass and said “fuck it! We will just call it sapphire! And trademark it in case anyone else figures it out before us, we own the name.”
something thats never addressed with the pve offline coop: if the servers arent ready for so many people to play that mode, why make it on dedicated servers? Give the people the opportunity to do private hosting on their own machines, like many other games can. It's unity, it shouldnt bet that complicated to do.
Sounds like the offline coop isn't offline and costs minimum 500 bucks to play with one friend.
I have a feeling that they are trying to prevent piracy by making it so that you have to connect to the official servers in order to play co-op PvE.
It’s not even the DLC for me. It’s the in game friend list summoning, plus the shield of invisibility to AI scavs in the pvp mode
All of their "DLC' has always just been pay to win advantages. That's all it always has been, and people plugged their ears and pretended it was legit to feel better about themselves but all the devs did was decided, oh, these rich kids like to dump hundred+ dollars into these video games for advantages? Let's give them even more of that for a higher price.
In OUR understanding these devs are clowns 🤡🤡🤡🤡
😂
They became clowns. Who took over the development?
And Russians
@@dravenmaster7859 and?
@@dravenmaster7859their nationality doesn't matter
hell, your dev team can be in india for example and still end up doing something scummy like this
'It's not robbery. It's taking someone else's possessions without permission!"
There's a word for that, its called "Subjugation".
You're welcome.
@jadebones
Youre annoying
To quote Jules (a german youtuber) :"This is not a heist, this is suprise communism and now hands up"
"unannounced temporary relocation of items with an indefinite return time"
@@Jinnai89 I liked this
3:29 Horse armor for Oblivion was categorized as DLC... Yeah a game mode is DLC. LOL What a joke
Anything that requires you to own the base game to run is DLC. The spin off game from 6 Siege a few years ago wasn't a DLC (even though it could have been) as it didn't need the base game to run, even though it's running on the same engine and same characters.
LoL Wild Rift is also a stand alone game as it doesn't require LoL installed to run.
Why is DLC being argued about?
It's a bloody acronym, it means "Downloadable Content"! That means _anything_ you add to a game that isn't the base game, but requires the base game to play.
Exactly
MMOs say expansions because not only does it sound more meaningful but it's effectively just "large DLC". A subcategory almost. Not an entire category on it's own.
The devs are crazy
What can be classified as DLC is very broad though. It can range from new skins, maps, game modes to what can essentially be considered expansion packs that add tons of new content.
@@aaabatteries9948 Yes, and you just gave examples of DLC. There is no wiggle room for weasling out of calling something not DLC when it clearly is. OP's definition still stands. Could you kindly clarify the point that you were trying to make?
@@MrNikolidas my point is that game companies can decide what to call DLC whatever it is that they want because it's such a broad spectrum. At this point you can get away with calling what could be a new patch or season as DLC and people will buy it. Because its such a fluid term Devs can add or remove the label whenever they please, which is what Battlestate is trying to do.
Aren't they Russian though? So truth is always up for debate.
It's basic bargaining. Offer something outlandish, so that your real desire sounds like a steal.
Yep, the problem is if your initial offer is insulting, your prospect will often mentally check out and call off the deal.
That's like when you want $20, but ask for $50. Then say I get you might be broke,can you at least do $20. They're more than likely to do it.
It does sound like a steal. But unfortunately it's still them doing the stealing
@@CubeInspectorby that logic, you're stealing from your employer when you bargain for a raise. You don't get to have it both ways
@@Josco83 yup, that's basic bargaining too
Turns out, the 'Escape' from 'Escape from Tarkov' was the DLC we got along the way.
This makes me think of Asmon saying here that he won't play games where he dies and loses essentially. Like you did make progress, you tried and failed, did you learn something? Now try again. And besides that, isn't at least half of gaming enjoying your time in the game, what happened to all that enjoyment? Was it just enjoyment cause of the progress? If so get ready to get fucked, greedy game devs love that mindset and they're foaming at the mouth to exploit the living shit out of you for it.
Dopamine addict and a sad life to live. When you're 70 years old and look back and don't have any great times to show for it cause all you were doing was chasing the high of "progress" in a video game, not cultivating any genuinely memorable experiences. Same as people who chase money, what a fucking fucked the fuck up reality they will(hopefully never) live long enough to reflect on.
DLC can be best defined as such:
any content that can only be unlocked by a third party service or external tool via any means (which would include any official or unofficial webstore)
so that would include steam workshop, the official DLC, and any "content packs" "expansions" or "original soundtracks" as a few examples
I generally don’t trust games that have been in “early access” for 100 years, this whole debacle isn’t that surprising to me.
The définition of star citizen
It's rumored 7 Days to Die will release this year.
Wasnt Minecraft in beta for about a decade?
nah bro, do your research 😂@@SamoIsKing
@@SamoIsKingcheck your facts again. Minecraft was in beta for less than a year
This isn't even about the definition of what a DLC is. They specifically said EoD owners "wouldn't have to pay for anything", DLC included. The tweet from 2017 has been floating around everywhere.
HOLY SHIT THEY TWEETED ONCE 8 YEARS AGO that's wild bro
@@echo5827 I mean, Trump got slapped for sh*t he said behind closed doors 20 years ago. So by your standard he shouldn't be prosecuted either? Ok then, we have it on your authority first :D
Jk but obviously you get we can't cherry pick, it's yay or nay, and fr receipt also says EoD = Season pass for all future DLC, again thats in the receipt, so yes, legally speaking it is wild because it could simply delete them.
@@echo5827you’re kinda slow buddy. It’s not that they tweeted once 8 years ago. It’s that they made a promise for a specific amount of money. If they go back on that deal, they forfeit the money. The issue is, not only will they not give the money back, but they want to charge more for the new dlc. It’s a matter of integrity and dealing in good faith
Yeah i bought the eod simply so i wouldn't have to buy anything else. Thats where my issue is
@@echo5827How can anyone be that stupid and defend them.
The fucked up thing about tarkov is that if it weren't replacing the edge of darkness edition and had zero pay to win elements, the average tarkov fan would look at 250 bucks for the upgrade and be like "Oh yeah that makes sense", that price point is just beyond comprehension
They just failed at the risk of creating a product before selling it. As a web developper, we don't work on a feature before we have a "go" confirmation that the said feature has been sold. They skipped that step and now the dev had already be done, they are in deep worries because they invested so much into something we didn't want.
holy shit this reads like it was written by the Star Wars Battlefront 2 "sense of pride and accomplishment" guy
Come join Star Citizen community...!!! Chris Roberts and Star Citizen developers are open on how they charge +1k USD on pay to win ships for decades. Best of all, no game has been released.
@@BoydofZINJcan't be pay to win if there's nothing to win * galaxy brain *
@@scimbrelo oh then why are there more people watching Star Citizen streams than Escape from Tarkov streams right now? (I am sure it varies) money talks and Chris Roberts laughs every time he deposits a few million dollars in his bank account
I had forgotten what fiasco that one were😂
@@BoydofZINJ star citizen is a cult so it checks out people would watch it
it doesnt matter if it is DLC or not. Battlestate made this post on twitter in 2017 about the EoD:
"You do not need to buy anything at any stage. If you hhave EOD, you do not even pay for DLCs in the future. You are all in for it all coming." - BattleStateGames, 10. April 2017, 11:13 PM
There we have it. It even says "even for DLCs" like you get everything else AND DLCs... so the definition of DLC is not important since they promised all owners of EoD EVERYTHING and they dont have to pay for ANYTHING, no matter if it is described DLC or not.
Funniest part to me is they're including access to future DLC with Unheard edition again. Seems like a perpetual promise to future DLC, as the next one they can just call not being DLC again and also include acces to future DLC.
You have an archived version of said post?
@MadMaxJuggernaut i hope so i need it. im going to my bank and to the business wtv bs to file a formal complaint. i have a vendetta against nikita now.
@@gharretjethat’s exactly what they will do
"DLC can range from cosmetic content, such as skins, to new in-game content such as characters, levels, modes, and larger expansions that may contain a mix of such content as a continuation of the base game. In some games, multiple DLC (including future DLC not yet released) may be bundled as part of a "season pass"-typically at a discount in comparison to purchasing each DLC individually." by Wiki
I just requested a refund from BSG. I'm expecting they will say no obviously. However before I can submit a charge back with my bank I have to give them a chance first. The product I purchased is significantly different from the product I received. If something isn't as it was described when you bought it you're entitled to a refund. we'll see how I get on.
The reason why they removed Arena from EOD description is now obvious. Arena is game mode pre-release. It doesn't fit in their current definition of DLC. They are scamming. Damn...
DLC is literally any content that you download to add onto the game.
No, it's not.
@@DakotaActually shill
@@Jenbumelkor Cool ad hominem. Keep liking your own comments.
@@Jenbumelkor He is right. DLC is a term used in TOS and contracts. If you are not labeling stuff as DLC - it's not DLC.
Ehh... Almost. You can download stuff to add to the game that isn't DLC, like mods/cosmetics, but... I would say if it adds new content/gameplay from the official makers, it's a dlc.
Only way it's not DLC is if the user does not have to download any additional content to play this "feature". If the user has to download and store some local data for this "feature", it's DLC.
milk milk milk the cow. its sad how people will take the least worst option anyway, instead of not taking anything. Dont buy anything since they clearly dont have funds..maybe even to fully release a good full game.
Rather save the money and have half of a new processor that is going to come out alredy saved.
well fans of Tarkov.
you've won.
you've escaped Tarkov.
gratz.
🤣
It's okay they don't need you since you already bought the game. It is actually better for them for you to leave.
Imagine buying a Call of Duty season pass, and the devs say you don't get the new maps with it because "maps aren't DLC, they are just a new place to play".
The magic word is battlepass. Season passes are outdated. The money is in skins and battlepasses. Call of Duty is nothing more than a glorified 250 GB skin shop.
@@derjoghurtmitdereckeman i'm sure it's more than 250 GB. And i'm also sure they make their game so large, too use all of your Space, and so you delete all your other games just to play call of duty.
Imagine buying Call of Duty. :D
@@ravioli-ravioliyou can get all the call of duty for less than 250.
@@metronome8471 mw3 alone costs about $200 on sale, what are you even talking about?
Besides, my point was about why even by call of duty, since this is a typical copy past series for the last few years anyway?
Dlc, downloadable content, is ANY additional content you download as an extension or add-on to the base game. Doesnt matter if it's a game-mode, characters, maps, skins etc
Wikipedia definition: Downloadable content (DLC) is additional content created for a video game, distributed through the Internet by the game's publisher. It can either be added for no extra cost or it can be a form of video game monetization, enabling the publisher to gain additional revenue from a title after it has been purchased, often using some type of microtransaction system.
DLC can range from cosmetic content, such as skins, to new in-game content such as characters, levels, modes, and larger expansions that may contain a mix of such content as a continuation of the base game. In some games, multiple DLC (including future DLC not yet released) may be bundled as part of a "season pass"-typically at a discount in comparison to purchasing each DLC individually.
In words of a great man, abridged:
“We know that they are lying, they know that they are lying, they know that we know they are lying, but they are still lying"
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
It's a social contract, you're supposed to pretend you haven't noticed the lie to maintain amicable relationship.
Well I mean, no one wants an amicable relationship with the Devs anymore. They're flaming the absolute shit out of them and with good reason too.
"The Gulag Archipelago" is a must read.
Exactly like the Emperor has no clothes idiom
I hate catching people I know in an obvious lie. Whenever I hear it coming I back away from the physical conversation.
I ain't reading allat lil' bro but I'm happy for you tho, or sorry that happened? 🙏🙏
What situation? All I see is a shituation.
Why buy anything in this game? Isn't it full of cheaters? Why hasn't any publisher tried adding cheats as an extremely expensive DLC (like over a million USD per cheat feature) then suing 3rd party cheat users for theft?
@@freedustin addictive gameplay loop and tight-knit community
@@freedustin every multiplayer game has cheaters
@@erastal theres a difference between having cheaters and having excessive amounts of cheaters.
@@erastal yeah and I don't buy their weird packages either.
It also doesn't make sense to have "only the most dedicated" play pve when their most dedicated live for pvp and difficulty.
Its the casuals that would most enjoy a stroll around tarkov with no one else to bother them or scoop up the loot
DLC is Down Load Content. Any addition ( maps, weapons, chracters, enemies, modes) that changes the game via download is DLC. Been that way since 2001. 23 years ago.
Is this one of those things where a company goes for the big ask and then slowly walks back their position until the consumer accepts the new terms which is still a considerable price hike compared to before the announcement?
no this is one of those things where the company promises stuff to its customers than turns around and instead of giving them what they payed for they sell them it for twice the original amount. not kidding the PvE should have been DLC/earliest access that the original EoD edition of the game that was 120$ should have had access too. instead they removed the EoD form sale made a new "unheard" edition that's 250$ and has the PvE and other things that should have been granted to EoD owners.
Yep, except in this case the price hike is any price at all because we all already paid for this when we bought EOD in the first place
Whats fucking bonkers is if the PVE mode was in the base game a bunch of people would buy the game myself included possibility making just as much of not more money without the cost of their reputation.
Doubt that but if they sold it at a reasonable price separately and just said we can't afford to give it everyone just yet, people might have forgiven that. $250 is just ridiculous regardless of breaking EOD contracts.
@@Greywillson58 They said they are making it purchasable seperate to the $250 package. Also that EOD owners will get a 70% discont on it.
You can play SPT! Buy the game, then download a mod that makes the game single player, you can download mods and a bunch of other really cool stuff! And you won't have to ever meet hackers or campers:)
@@CHOP874 I never knew this was a thing, now I want to try it, thanks!
@CHOP874 spt is ok but it runs worse and is normally multiple patches behind.
Also if it was extra content not already present and is released later... that we have to download and is not part of the main game... it is downloadable content
Technically any patch in a game is then DLC... "Downloadable content" it was invented to explain additional content to a game when we were still using CD's.
It's basically anything that is added on top of the original "CD".
No, patch/update was dlc only a thing used when talking about paid downloadable content
It's crazy how devs think they can just twist their own words in a way that they think makes them technically correct and then just expect customers to be like "Oh man, they got us on this one! Here's my $250."
They're trying to cover their asses legally more than trick consumers. They have to paint the narrative that it's totally normal to not call this dlc or they are gonna get slammed for fraud.
Liberals Arts 101
@@ChezMclegendmakes 0 sense but you do you buddy
But are ppl actually ok with the 250$ price? I just see everyone going so hard on the DLC debate that i feel like they somehow moved on about the price and just accepted it
@@GravitasZeroBut it does, when you throw some people a hand they automatically think they can take your arm.
'Escape From Scamkov: The Edge of Greed' is real.
half of these comments dont even have anything intelligent to say lol. how is eft a scam? have you played the game?
XDDD
"Customer is always right ... in a matter of taste" - that is the wole quote which translates to customaer can have whatever taste they want when choosing their purchase
Diffrence on update and dlc is that dlc costs something additional to the basegame purchase. That's atleast my definisjon of dlc.
bsgs financials are in the public domain since they are headquatered in the UK but they filed for a delayed release on their information prior to doing this.
this is not entirely true
Imagine if like, Paladins did this to people who bought the Founders Pack(all future characters are free). "ty for supporting us early on, but we dont like you getting free champs anymore, so pay half the amount" that sounds absurd, just like what they are doing to Tarkov players!
Which is crazy cuz the same thing for Smite is STILL honoured. Same company so it's wild they reneged on Paladins but continue to honour the same deal in smite
@@ticklord he's giving an example lol
God imagine if warfame 10 year anniversary pack excluded mag and frost heirloom skins
Wait they did that but way cheaper than this.
The sad thing is, this isn't even the first time this has happened. Back in 2019, Bethesda was sued for basically the same thing. The Season Pass stated that you would get all DLC for the game for one S.P.E.C.I.A.L. price. It made no distinction about what content was actually included in the Season Pass. Even Todd Howard came out and said if they did more for the game, season pass holders would have it for no additional cost. So the understanding was if any content came out for Fallout 4, Season Pass holders would get it for no additional cost beyond the price of the season pass.
Today, the season pass's wording has been altered to only specify the DLC packs currently released for the game. This alteration occurred AFTER Creation Club was released and more importantly, AFTER people had already purchased it under the impression they would have access to all DLC content coming out for the game as advertised. I'm not sure when this wording was implemented, but it was definitely after 2020.
As for the outcome of the lawsuit, I think it's still pending. Was put on hold cause of COVID and now I think it's either been abandoned or just delayed this long for one reason or another.
Also asmond there comes a point in that game where you have everything unlocked and like so much stuff you can’t even hold it. Losing stuff is part of the game. If you have a few good extracts it’s can negate a few deaths
The money is escaping Tarkov
xDDD
The single player version that modders have made is entirely peer to peer and doesn't need BSG servers. if BSG did it that way, they wouldn't have to charge anything for it.
They still would.
Yeah if it's supposed to be co-op only why would you need massive servers to host the games? Surely P2P makes more sense since you wouldn't be playing with a standard full lobby size.
Does it load faster than the OG version?
@grav4706 Depends on your computer, but in general, yes.
they want to charge for it because they dont make money off the game anymore, for the amount of work they put into this game and for the thousands of hours people got out of it they didnt make much money. theres a video someone put out not too too long ago that covered their actual earnings and for how much this game cost and considering that bsg is an indie dev team that created a triple a experience they didnt make much money off of it. i dont disagree with them charging for more content but they just didnt think this through and fucked up big time.
From the patch notes the game mode is called "Co-op offline mode" yet their main arguement states it runs on their servers.
So also false advertisement, as its still online service based.
the extra equipment in the unheard edition, is that in addition to the equipment you get with EOD? and the 1mill roubles, is that in addition to the 500k you get without unheard? also, is the stash size in addition to the 2 extra rows we busted our balls for doing the quest for?
DLC is additional content that can be downloaded to a gaming device after the game has been purchased. This content can include new levels, characters, weapons, and other features that enhance the game-play experience.
The PVE mode is DLC.
After the game is RELEASED, not just purchased. Early Access games are purchased on the understanding that ANYTHING can be added/removed/changed at any time and you just have to accept it and whatever terms the company deems are appropriate. Because it's in EA you have no consumer rights to anything because it's a work-in-progress and you agreed to that before buying.
@@Ishlacorrin This is not a question of whether this is a DLC or not, its a question of not asking your customers that have already paid for beta access, to have to pay again for new content in said beta game. Bottom line is, if they intend to have people playtest the PvE mode before release, then they should add it for everyone who is part of the beta, they should not paywall it after already paywalling access to the beta.
"Early Access games are purchased on the understanding that ANYTHING can be added/removed/changed at any time and you just have to accept it" - No, this is any game you buy. Developers can add or remove anything, Early Access or not. Difference is in a single player game running offline, you can decide not to apply an update and keep playing. In multiplayer games its usually versioned in a way in which you have to update, to keep playing. This is not exclusive to Early Access.
@@MrBa143 Oh I fully agree with that, I also think their pricing in general is scummy and should not be allowed for EA games.
My point is that they are not wrong when they say it's not DLC, having said that, the Arena is also NOT DLC and they should not have called it such or charged for it either!
If they wanted to charge for either of them they should RELEASE the game and stop scamming people with this EA technicality BS.
@@Ishlacorrin I disagree. You can very much so call it a DLC even if its in early access. I think we should look towards the biggest gaming platform in this case. Steam has had multiple hit games that offered DLCS during their early access. Prison Architect and Kerbal Spaceprogram for instance, these were puchaseable using steams DLC store. After all, it is the gaming industry that lays down the definition of a term. You cannot have a definition of something if people do not use or accept / collectively agree on said definition.
This is downloadable content that they intend to paywall access to. Whether that is in early access or not, its a DLC.
Do i agree with approach? Not one bit, unless the developers go out of their way to say they are in need of money to hit their goal of a 1.0 release.
It has all the same bad qualities one would ascribe to overpriced DLC. They're just trying to change the wording so people don't rightfully associate it with a hated practice. It's day 1 DLC ... or effectively day t- DLC.
It really doesn't matter how THEY define it to justify it post facto.
Also: How can they not have the Server Capacity to give "every EOD owner Co-Op" but give every EOD owner Co-Op for 6 Months.
SOMETHING DOESN'T ADD UP NIKITA BANANA, BROTHERMAN.
If its designed properly it should use all the exact same infrastructure just when the Matchmaker has a group its about to send to the Server it tells just the Server its a PVE session which spawns "x" number/groups of AI PMC's.
Yes it will be less efficient potentially having 1 player instead of 6+ per server but realistically how many people will be playing it and maybe you say that PVE has lower priority during peak/high periods.
@@shannenmr "designed properly" "tarkov" cmon, man
This was my biggest takeaway from what he said. You don't have the infrastructure for everyone...but you have the infrastructure for everyone right now for 6 months?
@@shannenmr In this case they are probably talking about servers as in hardware capacity / resources. A game server is just a piece of software running on the hardware. You can have 100 game servers running on one physical server / system.
It feels to me like they need to learn the difference between DLC and expansions. They used the wrong term, painted themselves into a corner, and just decided to walk through the paint acting like they're not tracking footprints all over the house.
Crazy how apparently everyone forgot back before early access went live that the devs said PVE IS part of the game and will be included. Early access went live with only PvPvE and no PVE, the devs said it wasn’t ready but is still included with the base game.. scummy tactics
I call BS on the server space. I work in IT this is not how servers work. ALL the servers are virtualized and the resources can be flexed between virtualized servers. Their player count isn't rocketing up they are just going to be playing on a different virtualized server. So BS the server thing was just something to try to save face. Virtualized server pull from a group of hosts. There would be zero reason to setup completely different physical servers with different network infrastructure if you already had one in place...You would just add to your cluster and then spin up some virtualized servers for they new mode...
To be fair, 8 people playing pvp on 1 server needs less server capacity then those same people seperetly playing pve in 2-8 servers. But ofcource this is why you dont build the pve mode to run on your servers.
If its designed properly it should use all the exact same infrastructure just when the Matchmaker has a group its about to send to the Server it tells just the Server its a PVE session which spawns "x" number/groups of AI PMC's.
Yes it will be less efficient potentially having 1 player instead of 6+ per server but realistically how many people will be playing it and maybe you say that PVE has lower priority during peak/high periods.
Ok, but if you're renting those virtualized resources so you don't have to worry about maintenance, backups & security... you need funding for more virtualized resource access.
Your logic is only true as long they have the headroom for the extra virtualized servers on their current hosts.
Overprovisioning is not the way to go if you do not have total control of the resources available.
Adding 2-3 more hosts would probably not cause issue as it will only take up 3-6U in the rack depending on the type of server you use, but if they do not have ANY more room in the rack they can technically be correct in that they have no room.
But a company that can't even scale the environment by a few physical hosts is a big red flag.
They can make it peer to peer idk it helps but the solution is there
We’d give it to you, but we don’t have the capacity. So you can buy it to play it now, but some people can’t. But there is a discount, so buy it, so you can play it. But it won’t be out until full release in our perpetual Alpha game. $250.
DLC, from my understanding is any addition that isn't simply an update. The difference being everyone has to update, but not everyone needs to get the DLC. So, if you are getting access to something that not everyone has access to through simply playing the game, then it is DLC. Even battle/season passes I would consider DLC if they give exclusive content that cannot be earned otherwise. So COD, D2, Genshin passes are DLC, but if say D1 gave The Taken King expansion out to everyone or if all skins and guns in a COD pass were earnable, then that is an update, because it can be obtained through playing the game and is essentially part of the base game from there on out.
For Torkov’s $250 DL, you could buy:
BG3 - $60
Elden Ring- $60
Armored Core 6- $60
Helldiver 2- $40
Minor Lords - $30
Tarkov players, you deserve better. You deserve MORE.
I don't get how you have a successful unique gameplay with a monopoly on it and you just try your hardest to kill it
Russian mindset
Gajin (war thunder) is pretty much exactly the same
@@wapniak666not just Russian, Blizzard is doing their best to ruin OW as well.
@@asimplewizard yeah sorry but no, it's not even close how bad these companies are compared to blizzard
Not to mention that blizzard doesn't have monopoly on hero shooters
@@wapniak666 oh you're a prickly fella, aren't you?
Both games implemented P2W elements in games that didn't have them.
Both games overly monetized a failed PVE experience.
Both games have companies that are overly managed and deflect criticism with PR terms.
If anything, Blizzard's extensive history of aggressive business decisions, ruining other firms, seggsual harassment cases, employee conditions, and increasingly predatory monetization schemes make it pretty just on par with a game that released expensive DLC, lol.
But feel free to disagree about megacorp and infamously evil, Blizzard, being evil.
Also it definitely has a near monopoly on hero shooters. There's 3 options, and 2 of those options have no players and 20 minutes long queues. I know because I tried them after quitting OW. They're not even on the same level of accessibility, player base, or polish
Just ask the nemesis system
They're insulting their consumers knowledges of what makes a DLC.
Judging from many replies
They definitely know us very well
If it's content that you download, it's DLC. It's pretty frickin simple if you ask me.
@@damiencouturee6240 to existing game, it shouldn't work without game
Putting the DLC concept aside for a minute…why is a game company putting a separate $250 usd price tag on a game mode that should have been included with the base game from the start? This sets up precedence that they can just slap price tags on the most basic features of a video game. Want to change your game options? Thats a $100 feature.
Want to uninstall that's 25
The main issue here is that bsg`s definition of dlc is; new features after game release (1.0) so in their view, they can do thatever the hell they want because the game is not officially released yet.
BSG could have easily managed a staggered rollout of PvE: Simply ask the players to apply for access. A HUGE portion of the game population won't even use it and wouldn't mind waiting to get access, making those who do want it easy to prioritize.
I mean that's exactly what they did for the arena game mode, just a cash grab. Free when the game is fully released, like the game has no been in development for nearly 10 years
So lemme get this straight:
Nikita expected EOD owners to immediately upgrade to the Unheard edition so he can make money, if they did (myself included) would the servers then be magically upgraded to support everyone? Or would no one be able to play? Makes sense ? This is a scam.
What servers? They don't have the technical skills to implement any major changes to the server logic
Ive been playing the PVE Single player Mod for over a year because i got sick of all the hackers, made the game impossible to play when i logged in. I am curious and wondering if BSG's PVE mode is going to be the same as, worse or better than the mod because no one that i know of has had any real gripes about the PVE mod.
Do I have to download additional content to play it? Then it's a DLC (literally in the name)
Honestly why don’t they make dedicated servers available to anyone. Imagine you can own your own server like mine craft. This way communities own servers
If its designed properly it should use all the exact same infrastructure just when the Matchmaker has a group its about to send to the Server it tells just the Server its a PVE session which spawns "x" number/groups of AI PMC's.
Yes it will be less efficient potentially having 1 player instead of 6+ per server but realistically how many people will be playing it and maybe you say that PVE has lower priority during peak/high periods.
this is a fallacious argument. minecraft at least runs far better with an equivalent amount of players.
dedicating an end product is a far cry from anything BSG has and will ever provide
Downloadable content (DLC) is additional content created for a video game, distributed through the Internet by the game's publisher.
Yeah, but how can there be “additional content” if the game isn’t even finished?
@@soup5220 The difference is that the devs have clearly separated the content from the base game, and with an additional pay-wall no less. If the content had been merged with the base game files that MUST be downloaded through an update or patch for existing players in order to keep playing, or it can be accessed by new players paying for the base game on initial download, only then is it not DLC.
This kind of word-play you describe is exactly what Nikita and the devs are counting on people to misconstrue. They had promised free DLC to players in perpetuity, FOREVER, and now they're messing with the definition of DLC to make those players cough up more money. Here we are arguing in the comments while they are raking in cash, and it's not right.
@@MrNikolidas You think they are counting on people to “misconstrue” it in a manner that dictates that this should only ever be considered part of the base game and given as a free update to anyone that has already paid for the game? I don’t think so.. I think they are wrong either way you slice it.
I just fundamentally disagree with anything being labeled as DLC until the game is finished. Until release, all content should be considered part of the base game and included with the price you paid upfront. If you want to charge for additional content FINISH THE FUCKING GAME FIRST.
@@soup5220 I agree, wholly. I think I misinterpreted your question now I've read this thread again tbh. I don't know what I was smoking a few hours ago. Possibly just seeing red from all the comments defending BSG. Have a good day.
on my understanding DLC stands for Delayed Lauch content, means stuff that was originally to be on the game but it came after they lauched , so basically DLC was supposed to be free.
that is not what DLC stands for. DLC is "downloadable content". There's many games where the developers released a fully finished product, then created add-on content which was never meant to be given away for free, and charged for it extra because it's extra content, so your definition is just crazy.
12:27-13:12 100% agree. I was an idiot I love the look of the game, Russian firearms, weapon customization, etc. But having to wait like 5+ minutes to get into a match only to get spawn killed losing everything you brought but also they had (and might still have) wipes where you lose everything you worked towards getting killed the game for me.
It’s just not fun working hard on a game where there is little no reward or progress.
Also if I remember correctly the last time I played they had it so you could go into matches solo without other players but you got nothing from it making it completely useless. Also I didn’t like the scav run system where you get a chance to gather gear without losing stuff but you have to wait a long ass time after a run (or at least after you die).
I got the Edge of Darkness edition. I hope at some point I can play the PvE mode. If it’s good and things settle down (with the discount) I might get the newest big edition if it’s not that much money.
They are saying, their incompetence to make a singleplayer mode means you have to re-pay for their service
its a bold move, especially with the spt mod existing
exactly lmfao and people did a sp mode for this game for free🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣nah man sometimes i cant believe the stuff that happens in the gaming world. stuff out of comic books.
I'm still trying to figure out what server capacity has to do with it. Obviously in its current form it is designed to be online... but why? If they don't want to pay for the server capacity, why is it online ONLY? Why can't you host it p2p?
@@An4lAvenger My guess is, you might be able to get loot in SP you can use in MP so they want the inventory synced to not have people cheat.
another day thanking god i never got into extraction shooters. 🙏
Tarkov actually a good game, besides this scum situation and cheaters on early stages of wipes, this is a great game for people who's loves a grind and hardcore
Lol. Good thing you didn't. You'd get shit on by Thicc bois and hackers.
@@Gosha69_stalker is better tbh especially the stalker modding community aka gamma
@@InternalxHDI love Stalker too, but in my opinion its basically two separate games in different genres
@@InternalxHD the fun fact is, gamma is literally tarkov inspired modpack. Yes, it's a good modpack, but still. Not even talking about how stupid this is - to compare single and multiplayer games.
12:35 oh man. That's me too. I don't why, but that happens, I'm mentally out.
Downloadable content (DLC) is additional content created for a video game. It's simple, it is DLC by every definition if the word.
"In our understanding" means they can categorize something as dlc or not dlc whenever they like and when it suits them
Looks like Ubisoft is 2nd in place now...
I'm sure they're in negotiations
@@devinochs7685 It's a special operation.
Another big red flag to this is that a selling point for this new addition is “all future DLC for free” same as EoD, so what’s to say they won’t take ur $250 and pull the same shit 1 year from now when we are excluded from more DLC
They could have made the single player experience self hosted, invite friends for the multiplayer, and tie the updates into the main launcher. I don't understand why they felt the need to host the PvE experience, unless you're supposed to be playing with more than a reasonable amount of players. Most games only allow like 4 player parties.
I think the only real DLC I've ever been truly happy to purchase were the COD WAW Zombies maps. Going to the shop to purchase microsoft points on the weekend with my mates, have a maccies then bus home and all get on to play the new maps :') DLC now feels like pre-made content thats locked behind a pay wall vs in development DLC that will be available for purchase in X time
I hate how scummy games are getting.... the gaming industry is burning imo.
Has been for a long time. The nail in the coffin was Fifa 2008 lootboxes and mobile gaming.
Its more they are in panic mode....Technology/graphics used to be the risk free way to sell the next generation but gains in that area have been getting harder....They have unrelieable media and developer network that is not in sync with its consumers....And now the AA gaming space is beginning to outperform the AAA with far less money
Saying the gaming industry is burning is like saying the forest is on fire because you see a campfire. There are plenty of good examples of good practices in gaming, you are just fixated on the bad.
@darianlp It might be better to say the canopy is on fire .....The AAA space is in a bit of trouble atm with certain unique pressures but your right that below that alot of good stuff is going on
STALKER 2 is coming soon, so be hopeful
Elden Ring:
PvP Arena = feature
Shadow of the Erdtree = DLC
DLC gives you a choice to download it or not, regardless of a payment requirement. A feature is and will always be part of the game (sometimes delivered through updates).
I a situation where someone had shoe cleaner at the mall saying igot it for 120, but i got it for 65, i said no and the price went to 45. Same deal here
I hope the tarkov players know this game will never have a release. Just like star citizen, they make too much money from customers paying them for development that they will be in alpha perpetually
DLC is anything that is something apart from base game and/or regular patches, which you can choose to install on top of the base game, be it paid or free from official source which isn't mod. It is "downloadable content".
Guys if its not a DLC, then this is part of MAIN game which shuld be availble to even standard edition which u shuld have acces to MAIN GAME without acces to DLCs, since game is not released and its in Beta therefore it can't be any dlc to a game that dosn't exist.
this is the same shit that happen with a chinese game, muse dash, they try to change the muse plus DLC (which said in the description, future update are free), but then they want to add DLC, and muse plus are not going to get the update, people are outraged because DLC are basically an update, until eventually they cave in and "honor" the old muse plus DLC, because of lawsuit threat.
Common logic: DLC is additional content that can be downloaded to a gaming device after the game has been PURCHASED.
Devs stupid logic: DLC is additional content that can be downloaded to a gaming device after the game has been RELEASED.
They are right. Steam shouldn't allow them to make dlcs before full release. This way every update is forced into the base game. For free. How it should be.
@@random58585 Based af
@@random58585 I don't know what 'they' you're talking about and this game is not listing on Steam. This game was in beta phase for 6 years, players who bought EoD edition has been delisted in order to make new version (Unheard Edition) more appeal. EoD players are angry by the way they've been treaten. If you purchased the game, anything came after it is DLC. Devs redefining DLC to cover their bad decision.
@@onganhangduong195 That is wrong, DLC can only come after release. Early access games are still in development and you buy them on the understanding that ANYTHING can be added/removed/changed in development and you have no recourse. It's the COST of their EA game that is scummy, they are not wrong about the objective definition of DLC.
@@Ishlacorrin Elaborate from your point, buy the game before it release equally to take the leap of faith? And the situation of players who bought EOD edition is simply got fucked?
I remember deliberating on buying the $150 version for weeks because even that one costs double what I've paid for any other game, ever. Paying $250 for a game, a DLC at that, is out of the question.
Custom Camo’s woulda fixed pretty much all these problems. Call it the origins camo pack and have 3 or 4 uniforms from all the major countries with an active player base.
So if I’m understanding right, Battlestate made the PVE mode that was supposed to come with edge of darkness, and made it you have to pay again for it because “the servers are too full”?