Why Darth Vader VS Goku Is Closer Than You Think!
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- In today's video, I'll be looking at the greatest feats of power from the Star Wars Expanded Universe, and explain how strong Darth Vader could potentially be compared to Goku from Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball Super. Could Vader survive Namek? Defeat the Androids? Or even fight Ultra Instinct Goku?
Featuring @Tylearned
Luke VS Sidious animation by MKO_Artist
Darth Vader is a fictional character in the Star Wars franchise. The character is the central antagonist of the original trilogy and, as Anakin Skywalker, is one of the main protagonists in the prequel trilogy. Star Wars creator George Lucas has collectively referred to the first six episodic films of the franchise as "the tragedy of Darth Vader". Darth Vader has become one of the most iconic villains in popular culture, and has been listed among the greatest villains and fictional characters ever. His masked face and helmet, in particular, is one of the most iconic character designs of all time.
Originally a slave on Tatooine, Anakin Skywalker is a Jedi prophesied to bring balance to the Force. He is lured to the dark side of the Force by Chancellor Palpatine (Darth Sidious) and becomes a Sith Lord, assuming the name of Darth Vader. After a lightsaber battle with his former mentor Obi-Wan Kenobi on Mustafar, in which he is severely injured, Vader is transformed into a cyborg. Now the Emperor's handpicked right-hand, he serves the Galactic Empire for over two decades as the Commander-in-Chief of its forces, purging the last Jedi and hunting the Rebels. Vader ultimately redeems himself by saving his son, Luke Skywalker, and killing Palpatine, sacrificing his own life in the process.[5] He is also the secret husband of Padmé Amidala, the biological father of Princess Leia, and the grandfather of Kylo Ren (Ben Solo). In the non-canonical Star Wars Legends continuity, he is also the grandfather of Ben Skywalker, his eponym Anakin Solo, Jaina Solo and Darth Caedus (Jacen Solo), and the great-grandfather of Allana Solo.
The character has been portrayed by numerous actors: David Prowse physically portrayed Vader while James Earl Jones has voiced him in all of the films and some television shows, and Sebastian Shaw portrayed the unmasked Anakin in Return of the Jedi, as well as the character's spirit in the original release of that film. Jake Lloyd played Anakin Skywalker as a child in The Phantom Menace, the first film of the prequel trilogy, while Hayden Christensen played him as a young adult in the following two films, post-2004 releases of Return of the Jedi, and Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Dragon Ball (Japanese: ドラゴンボール, Hepburn: Doragon Bōru) is a Japanese media franchise created by Akira Toriyama in 1984. The initial manga, written and illustrated by Toriyama, was serialized in Weekly Shōnen Jump from 1984 to 1995, with the 519 individual chapters collected in 42 tankōbon volumes by its publisher Shueisha. Dragon Ball was originally inspired by the classical 16th-century Chinese novel Journey to the West, combined with elements of Hong Kong martial arts films. Dragon Ball characters also use a variety of East Asian martial arts styles, including karate[1][2][3] and Wing Chun (kung fu).[2][3][4] The series follows the adventures of protagonist Son Goku from his childhood through adulthood as he trains in martial arts. He spends his childhood far from civilization until he meets a teen girl named Bulma, who encourages him to join her quest in exploring the world in search of the seven orbs known as the Dragon Balls, which summon a wish-granting dragon when gathered. Along his journey, Goku makes several other friends, becomes a family man, discovers his alien heritage, and battles a wide variety of villains, many of whom also seek the Dragon Balls.
Toriyama's manga was adapted and divided into two anime series produced by Toei Animation: Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, which together were broadcast in Japan from 1986 to 1996. Additionally, the studio has developed 21 animated feature films and three television specials, as well as an anime sequel series titled Dragon Ball GT (1996-1997) and an anime midquel series titled Dragon Ball Super (2015-2018). From 2009 to 2015, a revised version of Dragon Ball Z aired in Japan under the title Dragon Ball Kai, as a recut that follows the manga's story more faithfully by removing most of the material featured exclusively in the anime. Several companies have developed various types of merchandise based on the series leading to a large media franchise that includes films (both animated and live-action), collectible trading card games, action figures, collections of soundtracks, and numerous video games. Dragon Ball has become one of the highest-grossing media franchises of all time. - Zábava
Does he beat Goku tho!? Either way, Vader's stronger than you think.
C-3PO accidentally one taps. 🗿
@BCCSquidward nope he does not but was worth a shot
@@JadoBouhzam *Joking left the chat I guess...* 🙄
@BCCSquidward no I was talking abou hercules my message replied to u hahaha
@@JadoBouhzam Oh, alright. 👍
Both Dragonball and Star Wars Legends are so incredibly busted and overpowered. Love it
Fr
Using star wars legends is the equivalent of using Super Dragon Ball Heroes. I like how y'all have to use non-canon stuff for vader to even stand a chance against DBS Goku. So Super Dragon Ball Heroes goku stomps.
@@BigJohn303 Again, it is not. 🤦
Legends is more the equivalent of GT, and using Super against Legends is more fair for both sides.
Its not, though. Legends was the original canon for star wars post ROTJ (or before it if we are talking about old republic and stuff) but then it got retconned for Disney's trash sequels. Sort of like how GT was retconned so super could be made. Legends are like what GT is for dragon ball. (And Vader nets GT except for debatable end of GT took but end of GT goku is restless)
@@DefNotHacks Fr
I'm surprised sometimes especially in legends the real continuity I prefer how powerful these Star Wars characters actually are
Legends > Canon in many ways.
@@BCCSquidward I'm with you one this man
@@lordchara4461most fans are, me aswell
It's funny and cool how Legends made the "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force" quote true in a literal sense and not just metaphorically
@@TheLastSpider-Man I couldn't agree more. 👍
This episodes concept is like the epitome of the dorkiness of powerscaling community and it brought me back to why I love this stuff and how much fun it is! Love crossverse stuff like this
How does Anakin go from being able to amp his durability to being universal or higher to being damaged just by being near magma?
George Lucas wasn't thinking about the powerscalling when he worked on star wars. If I were to rationalize it though I'd say that Amping his attacks through the force is different than amping his heat durability. That's also not to mention that he was unbalanced due to being engulfed by the darkside and literally just got his legs and arm chopped off by obi Wan which would make it impossible to use the force in that particular moment due to being unable to concentrate and then getting burned by the lava not very long after.
To be fair... he kinda needed... a hand in that situation. 🌚
Also you can make the same question for Goku,
Universal... but damaged by a little laser? 💀
Hurt by a rock in the Cell Saga?
@@BCCSquidward Goku can control his ki actively and is stated to often let his guard down. Those are not anti feats when compared to Anakin unable to take even city level attacks mid fight.
@@BCCSquidwardKi control. Same reason why Goku can have a power level of 5 when surpressed, is which is the strength of an average adult man.
He's still bulletproof in this state, mind you, but a rock and a laser could either kill him or at least hurt him depending on how strong the laser is or how fast the rock is thrown.
I’m sorry but I gotta say this. Goku has long since stopped needing rage to go super saiyan ever since he mastered the form in the hyperbolic time chamber. It’s arguable that his ssj2 form also doesn’t need rage as he had 7 years to reach it and possibly master it to a lesser degree. Ssj3 doesn’t need rage at all
Rage boosts in DB are often higher than SSJ multipliers. Goku was enraged using MUI against Jiren, Gohan Beast is enraged, Trunks’ form is literally called Rage. To say DB characters don’t still use rage is disingenuous.
@@CRISIS_COMICS I don't think Goku was ever enraged in MUI. I'm not sure that you CAN be enraged and still access the power of UI.
You definitely don't need rage to enter the super saiyan state. It can help get you there when you're unskilled, but once SS is mastered, rage simply uses up too much energy. Heck, the Saiyans from universe six don't use rage to transform at all, except for Kale, but she's a Broly analogue, not a regular SS.
@@AcrosurgeHe calls out Jiren for trying to murder universe 7 from the stands and screams with angry eyebrows…
@@CRISIS_COMICS That's true, but let us return to the original point; rage isn't required for transformations. It can offer a boost, as you said, but it isn't a necessity.
@@CRISIS_COMICSwell, goku wasn’t actually rage boosting or enraged. in fact, his emotions were confirmed to be still masked behind the power. this is confirmed mostly because his current evolution in ui, being true ui, is him just now utilizing his emotion or rage. in his words, hes simply just allowing himself to feel again. in ui and especially in mui he was actively snd subconsciously masking them
The thing is, like most other people that commented on this video, I have actually watched it to its end. Theres a few things I wanna say.
The things you've said about Star Wars have been extremely exaggerated/high-balled to the absolute highest degree in terms of AP (Power not Potential) and Durability. Meanwhile you've severely downplayed/low-balled Dragon Ball to it's lowest degree on certain sections, the Z arcs were perfectly scaled in my opinion, but super was just flat out wrong for most of it compared to the likes of Star Wars.
Literally every feat from Star Wars you've shown in this video takes the statements to it's utmost, as in the attacks and feats you showed us only have the Potential to do the things you've said, they were 1: Done by completely different characters (I understand that Darth Vader most likely scales to those characters however its mostly technique based and not purely how powerful they are in the Force) 2: Described specifically to be only potentially possible via special conditions (In this specific case the Force Storms being capable of destroying the entire infinite universe and other things that were never actually done/specifically stated to be only theoretical) 3: Not taking into account that when the characters make these statements they are just simply referring to the infinite power of the Force itself instead of referring to their own usage of it (aside from Palps amping his Force Storm through his rage) and finally 4: Assuming that because the other characters you've brought up can do these things, that Vader can too. When it comes to Star Wars everything the characters have been stated they can do is only theoretical and is rarely ever if at all actually shown. However most of the time Dragon Ball does actually back up these statements with feats such as the universe literally being destroyed around them when they state that it could be destroyed, same with planets, galaxies, even techniques on their own. Bottom line Dragon Ball was severely downplayed in this video not taking into account that things that are stated are more than half the time actually shown to be true, and Star Wars was hyped up to the max even though most of the statements are from novels where we literally can't tell if its hyperbole to catch the reader's attention or if it truly is even happening as well as most of it being just theoretical.
I've said my piece on it, I would normally scale the two but I haven't looked into Star Wars lore so I cant really have a valid opinion when it comes to Star Wars. If I'm being a dummy please let me know lol. I dont mean to be rude with this comment so ye
Finally someone with some common sense, statements don’t always need to be backed up by feats but the amount of wank they gave Star Wars with no feats and just with statements out of context was wild realistically most characters in DB beat Star War characters with relative ease
At this point why don’t channels focus only on:
• Consistent feats (strength, speed, etc.)
• Explicitly shown feats
• Measurable stats (no scaling, no guess work)
Otherwise, what’s the point of a death match?
So what's your opinion
Robocop vs the Terminator? Battle of the 80s
Honestly I would really like to see that video
Pleasant to see my favorite verses getting some much needed love and care! 😎👍
Man this is why I love power scaling. Just nerds talking about their favorite series and how strong they are compared to each other. It sucks that the community has so many bad apples around ruining what is such a fun thing to do
Finally, I made time for this video and it’s great.
Now this, is an unexpected & awesome match up.
I guess by most Star Wars fans, I would be considered a casual. Only truly fell in love with the first 6 movies, & the original book trilogy.
So I never knew Sith were quite so powerful. Wow!
Wicked Job done Crisis!
Preciate the scans 😁, w vid
Ultimate Gohan vs Legends Luke would be a killer follow up to this
Luke would win without any difficulty, Luke force push was strong enough to destroy multiple planets size ships, he could become one with the force and fight without using his body, he was cable of moving black holes
@@chucknorris6640u gave us planet-solar system lvl feats. Dawg cell games gohan would sweep
@@Invisibleboy999 I’m sorrt but that Blackhole feat alone sweeps a major majority of Dragon Ball, Goku can’t win aganist Black Holes
@madstachoif5512 Garlic Junior back in 1989 DBZ was able to create black holes (possibly even higher dimensional constructs nothing could escape from) they've long since surpassed black holes lol.
@@madstachoif5512 black holes are like star-solar system lvl so goku by the cell games definitely has the power greater then a black hole also the other person comment made me realize someone replied to me thats why im replying late
So we're just gonna ignore that Palpatine (who according to this video is competing with DBS high tiers) was killed by... falling a relatively great height? 😂
Into a nuclear reactor
@@Scotthulahoopcawthon still dude, for all intents and purposes Palp should be able to have pseudo flight
@@revlismorningstar825he was old AF and not mentioning that he was off guard.
@@Kira22558 So what if he was off guard? Man was falling for a good minute, and him being old is what should give him the experience to remain calm and use the force to stop his fall.
@@Kira22558Rotj is palpatines prime at least in the force.
This fight is actually not close at all. Goku is capable of destroying the moon as a child. Vader would need a death star like weapon to do such a feat. Also Goku is thousands of times faster then Vader. Once the fight started Vader would be killed in one hit and not be able to see anything coming
Bro didn't watch the vid
@@KEEPTALKIN8215 Coming back a month later, you can tell many didn't. 💀
Wow, I didn't expect this one Crisis. Both of you did a great job and I subbed the two of you.
I mean if you wanna pull from other sources you could use gt, heroes, the movies. Also i just wanna clear things up its not just like ui is pure instinct it is but it allows for fighting without the usage of the brain at all as well as having its own abilites and hax. Its also likely vader wouldnt be able to grow stronger when goku or anyone uses the god forms or god ki due to them being undetectable and not requiring rage. Since the force and ki is similar itd be like sidious' force cloak on steroids. The movies have speed feats that just put characters to irrelevant speeds. Garlic junior casually pulling off a 4d feat. Current goku and vegeta surpassed broly as stated by whis in the manga. Ui and ultra ego also allow the user to grow stronger as it fights although ego needs to be hit in order to grow in power. Goku blacl casually ripping holes to other timelines or dimensions. Manga kid buu wqs stated to make the universe go poof if they lost the fight. Whis can just reverse time. Mafuuba soul punisher or stardust breaker would just kill vader in one shot or remove all the evil in his soul or heart. Hakai was mentioned and it can be used as an energy attack. Instant transmission is instant. Higher end dragon ball characters kinda outscale in terms of martial arts. One galaxy worth of fighting knowledge vs the entire afterlife as well as other universes is a greater showing. Just some feats that couldve been used
We’re only considering main canon for Dragon Ball. God Ki doesn’t inherently use rage, but MUI Goku in the TOP or obviously Gohan Beast do use anger. The dark side emotions that Vader can amp himself off of aren’t rage exclusively, even just harmful intent is enough.
@@CRISIS_COMICS I mean mui does use anger but it's not required for the transformation and is mostly absent until jiren attempts to kill the z fighters so its not a necessity like the original ssj forms intent is basically out of the equation for mui since the usage ofnthe brain is completely disconnected and no longer a factor in action and movement as stated by whis. Ithink legends vader scales to the higher ups of dragon ball but stops at the broly movie. Not broly himself since vader would just feed off of brolys anger to empower himself and broly just growing constantly with vader so the fight would just be constant adaptation. But current manga characters like goku and vegeta surpass broly as stated by whis and that's before they get new forms and black frieza. Also does vader have resistance to existence erasure? Great video btw.
Technically speaking the Force is Space Ki cause both are based on same Eastern principle but comparing Vader, who's barely Galaxy level to Goku who's easily High Multiversal? C'mon bruh
EDIT: Oh, it's Legends lore aight I'm fine with it let's roll
Disney Canon Lore is still pretty OP, Vader literally has Hyperversal Feats by ripping the entirety of space apart and tanking a certain portion of Sidious’s Force Lightning.
@madstachoif5512 Eh, you could say that's a huge outliner feat because there's far too many instances where he gets struck by NORMAL lightning and it disrupts him.
@@theretroshogun2961 In TFU 2 Vader was completely unphased after receiving Trillions of Kilojoules of Lightning in the Final Boss, Canon Vader can’t be that different.
Wait Goku in the Manga is Low Complex Multiversal, High Multi would be a little bit of an exaggerarion.
@@madstachoif5512No he is. People think that Canon Vader and Legends have similar attributes....they don't
Canon Vader in one comic literally got blitzed by lightning while hunting Tarkin. I forgot the comic but yeah. Also, people forget that Vader did indeed tank sideous's lightning, but immediately died right after
Disagreed with all this to be be frank, right after the Buu saga and Goku with Vegeta learning the ways of God Ki and God hood in general. That was pretty much it. Not only capabel of destroying planets but in base divine form he was capable of causing ripples through reality itself. Even without God ki he can merely destroy a planet if he wants to, or any tech they all have. (Some of y'all folks may see this d riding, still a good video btw)
What about any of what you described is better than what’s described in the video?
@@CRISIS_COMICS 🤷 I mean you did say in the video, he feeds off super Saiyan, but if it's for Goku to go God, or Blue then vaders done for since rage isn't befitting that of a God, it's all about having a calm mindset apparently when accessing Godly forms
@@Vegito-Blue-1337 Yes, but that wasn't Vader's only argument over Goku. 💀
Some part of me really wants to make a joke comment of goku instant transmissioning Darth Vader to a deserted planet with lots of sand and leaving him there without any spaceships to escape the planet. Darth vader pretty much hates sand so id like to think that it be funny that goku would piss darth vader off this way as he already was gone and left darth vader there to deal with sand again. Thats just my opinion though and ik alot of people wouldn't agree exactly.
Lol, I get what you mean.
But you need to sense someone's energy to use Instant Transmission.
@BCCSquidward I feel like he could sense Darth Vader's energy even if its a bit different. I may have not watched alot of star wars but I've at least heard a little bit about it like how Darth Vader's story of how he gets his classic cyber armor suit. Darth Vader isn't an android cause he still has his burnt body within that suit and can use energy like a normal beings while using the force. so It wouldn't be hard for Goku to sense energy from Darth Vader.
@@slicklink9131 No, I mean he can't just teleport Vader anywhere. He would need to sense something to teleport somewhere.
WAIT WHAT?!?! Vader has Domain Expansion: Infinite Void 🤞👀
Hey crisis can you do more Star Wars power scaling videos?
Fr 🔥
Let's spread the news! 🗣️👏
Yessir
Yeah, Crisis needs to do more SW powerscaling videos.
Lol
Star wars is fodder 😅 DB, Marvel and DC no diffs it like nothing
I feel like the standards in which both these were scaled at were massively different.
Like that count duku statement of him being able to “draw upon the force throughout the universe” more pertaining to his ability to extrapolate the force as a source of power than actually having universal power. I mean if you’re going with that, then why not use the statements of every main line dbz villain having universal lvls of power starting at 2nd form Freiza? I mean if the lack of feats and illustrations of said power aren’t a problem factoring count duku and just the mention of universal anything than characters in dbz should be that powerful as early as namek saga.
Forget about universal freeza.
What about all the outerversal afterlife statements ?
And thus outerversal ssj god ?
@@elcalabozodelandroide2 outerversal?
No
@@AilonZenget yes.
Multiple source like the daizenzou 5 , the daizonchou and multiple videogames (including kakarot) says the afterlife is about time , and multiple dimentions
@@elcalabozodelandroide2 that doesn’t mean it’s outerversal.
If it is referring to higher dimensionality and not just a spiritual realm, it could just mean that the afterlife is 5d not outer. That’s just to big of a jump.
@@AilonZengetsome guidebooks say it transcends the CONCEPTS of time and space. This is low outer.
I respect y'all's reasoning & opinion about Vader Vs Goku is a closer fight but I'm sorry as much I love Darth Vader as villain & as a character & we know how powerful his & with all the research y'all for Vader against Goku, but again I'm sorry but Goku solos Vader that's just me.
CAN HE BEAT YAMCHA?!
R2-D2 can. 🗿
Can he beat saibamen tho ?
No he cant
Yamcha will never escape this meme, won’t he?
Yes he can
Good work Crisis!!🥂
Thanks!
@@CRISIS_COMICS deserved🐐
So Would IH dooku scale above all the past sith?
99% of them.
So i take it valkorion would scale above prime dooku?
Damn I'm doing a Dragonball vs Star Wars Topic this week as well! Great minds think alike.
You're here too?! 🔥🐲👍
Jedi Order VS Planet Vegeta?
If so, can't wait. 🔥 Maybe that'll also show people how underrated SW characters are in terms of power.
I guess depending on if you end up using canon or legends. 🤔
@@BCCSquidward Your eating good as a star wars fan aren't you.
@@lclark6091 I'm genuinely fan of both franchises. Most polls I post on my channel are Dragon Ball related. 🐉
These days, every fandom seems to be power-scaling their favorites to ludicrous levels. It almost seems to be a form of worship. I wonder if future generations will look back and think that fictional characters like Batman, Sonic, Saitama, Ben Ten, and Darth Vader were each the anchor of a religious faith.
Do you have a counter-argument?
@@CRISIS_COMICS No, only questions. When has a sith/jedi ever destroyed an entire planet? Not surface destruction, but total disintegration (Death Star style)? When has any sith survived an attack capable of destroying a planet instantly? That's the kind of durability a sith must have to threaten a Frieza saga level Dragon Ball character, to say nothing of the rest of Z or Super.
Now, if sith have survived planet-busting attacks, why do the sith need to deflect blaster bolts and lightsabers which are clearly not planet-busting level? Why should a Jedi worry about a lava bath?
And one final question; why does it matter whether Darth Vader, or any fictional character can scale to Goku?
@@Acrosurge now i may be not so well versed in the star wars lore, but i believe it was stated somewhere that darth vader is more powerful than the death stars laser, but his AP lacked the planet busting potential.
As for where or when this was stated.... i forgor
@@Acrosurge The answer is that most of these statements come from extra material that were never truly taken seriously outside of the comics realm. The closest we have to a proper Star Wars canon scaling that is consistent with the logic of the movies is unfortunately the Disney canon which is much tamer
In my opinion, Goku wins thanks to the difference in speed and how easily he scales to higher dimensions.
Did u watch the vid?
@@CRISIS_COMICS emphasis on the word opinion, aside from you explained it, scaling Vader at immeasurable speed is extremely complicated while Goku in his base state was already capable of moving in a dimension without space and time
Apart from that, the macrocosm is a 5-dimensional structure and let's be honest, the current Goku infinitely surpasses the SSJGOD of the fight against Bills.
Was just thinking when would Crisis make another Star Wars video
1:49
this isn't always the case, as seen in the vegeta fight, where vegeta, who has a power of 18,000, is hit by goku's kaioken x4 kamehameha, (goku's power is over 8,000 x 4 = 32,000)
so vegeta got hit with an attack more double his own power and survived
proving characters can still scale to and fight others with greater power levels
Hey Crisis!
I've got my Ultra DC Infinite or what have you, reinstated.
I was wondering if you have any suggestions for where I could start with Nightwing?
I've heard there are like two approaches to the beginning of his story.
One where Dick & Bruce essentially break-up, & Dick takes off.
& One where Dick departs Gotham to spread his wings gracefully.
IDK which is which or what comes next tho 😂 That second run sounds more my speed, I hate when Bruce & Dick legitimately don't get along.
Any Suggestions?
I'd read start with New Teen Titans
@@CRISIS_COMICS Wolfman huh? Nice, 'preciate it dude.
Hey crisis is black panther from marvel comics a mastered off all forms of martial arts arts?
@@CRISIS_COMICS IDK if you take request's but please do Vader vs base comics Superman rebirth.
I know you are a good dc power scaler.
When Cell is says he has infinite power, isn't he just talking about the anti-exhaustion engine he has after absorbing the androids?
"Nah, i'd win" -Darth Vader
Obi wan is sukuna
Rage is a factor for activating the ssj form for the first time but after that it's second nature and can be tapped into like a technique,
I'm not gonna lie, imagining Trunks having a sword fight with Darth Vader is the shit.
🔥🔥
Vader ain't faster than light.
It isn't about strength, but speed.
Try to force stop multiple ki blasts at the speed of light
He literally is faster than light, he has a calc that put him thousands times ftl and he can deflect multiple blaster bolts which are light speed
@@aguywithcommonsense1204 the bolt is light speed, not the trigger not the thought.
Vader don't have ftl thoughts
@@alan199360 wtf is that supposed to mean? He still has the feats and calcs that put him at mftl+
@@aguywithcommonsense1204 firs, what is a calc. Second: Vader cannot think nor react at the speed of ligth one nor multile times. Third: Ki works exactly as he force, meaning Goku can do everyhing Vader can, but faster and stronger. Fourth: It desn't matter whos wins in a figth, ther writer always chooses, because the story is most important. Fifth: stop having pitty arguments with people you don't know on the internet, go out, make some friends, live your life, read Niesztche, have a pourpuse, deligth yourself with the art, and don't take everything too seriosly, its just made up fantasy
@@alan199360he literally made a made a good claim with evidence and you insulted his personal life lmao
People need to learn the difference between destructive capacity and attack potency.
This comparison feels a little weird....
While your logic for Star Wars being anywhere close to 5th dimension genuinely boggles my mind as I've only glazed Star Wars, But Still have a few questions :
How could Vader genuinely be at the level of Goku when Starkiller, A person who has shown the ability to beat Vader (His Clone included), Had extreme difficulty pulling down a star destroyer, Or how a Jedi Master (I think it was a guy with a really long neck) once died when protecting a planet with the force (With Darth Vader himself often struggling against Jedi Masters, Even disregarding Cere who gave him hell, Shack Ti was considered a threat in the Force Unleashed), Nihilus absorbing energy by going planet to planet rather than galaxy by galaxy. Or Luke only being able to contain a blackhole AFTER achieving Grandmaster level while he had his human body.
While I can see how becoming one with the Force can make you 5d with the nature of Star Wars Cosmology, thanks to what we saw with Luke, But giving anyone BUT Luke that level of power without them having shown it is a fine line, If Vader had Immeasurable speed (Or close to it with reaction) Then then why didn't he just..... Walk to the past rather than need a special device..... Or cut the fact that Padme died from existence?
Sidious himself having 5d (The Force) as a power source making him the same tier also seems sketchy given that while The Force can do those things, But It also has been shown that The body of the user can not handle the strain, As what happened with Luke's nephew, So I'm more inclined to believe in Vader being Galaxy level with some benefit (With Star and Planets just proven time and again) and below Universe level at his absolute best (Thanks to tanking Sidious's Lighting) with Massively faster than light reaction.
Vader Getting stronger with Super Saiyan is a fascinating point, Though with Grade 4 and the above tier of Super Saiyan Becoming more about control I don't see him getting the 50 times benefit, Thanks to the fact that the Saiyan's body are being changed, with rage just being a catalyst for the transformation rather than a genuine source of power to draw from like the Dark Side.
You have a few things mixed up. For one, Vader was holding back on Starkiller in the first game and was dominating Galen in TFU2; he only lost to Force Lightning which is Vader's kryptonite. Vader's also much stronger by RotJ; I'm not saying all of SW Legends is 5d, mostly just high tiers such as peak/RotJ/non-conflicted Vader. Cere exists in another continuity. Nihilus is far weaker than Vader and was just used as a baseline for planet lvl; Luke performing that feat doesn't limit him. If I crush a tin can it doesn't mean I can't punch a whole in a wall, GM Luke has far better feats.
Immeasurable speed doesn't mean you can time travel, just react when there's no time. Sidious' body handled the 5D power as he mastered Force Storms with a weaker body compared to his RotJ self; and a fatigued Vader's body withstood his power.
Goku and company still use rage boosts, with Trunks' rage form and Gohan Beast being predicated on such. If MUI Goku and Vader are near equals, as I showed, then Goku using rage like he did against Jiren or even SSJB Goku vs Black and Zamasu wouldn't be as advantageous against Vader.
@@CRISIS_COMICS Where was it written that he was holding back?
The man had TRIED to kill him on three separate occasions, First one was a trick, And the last two were just him failing to do so, In the novel he went as far as to crush Galen's saber in disdain.
there is little to suggest that Vader got that strong between Force Unleashed and RTJ, He was pretty much at his most stable power unlike the other instances like the beginning when he was new and lost to Obi-Wan or the end to his Reign when he was fighting Luke.
Cere I can buy, But he sends Starkiller after Shack Ti citing her as a threat, So even if he is stronger than her, Given that Starkiller only needs to beat her and a few other character to become strong enough to fight Vader on even terms, Then the difference is not by much.
With Luke, I said his HUMAN body because the other showcases of his power happen to be more special (Fighting Abolath without his body for example), And times he's considered much stronger than when he went up against Sidious.
One of the abilities that is just a given when you have immeasurable speed is the ability to travel through time, As you are no longer bound by it, Several Instances of immeasurable speed are proven when a character travels through time without any device or power to help them. Here's the source:
character-level.fandom.com/wiki/Speed
Goku has enough evidence and reasoning on why he doesn't travel through time, With Vader?
That goes against the very fiber of his character, As he would JUMP at the chance to go back and has on multiple occasions tried to mess with time travel or necromancy. Only to fail each time.
Given how consistently destroying a planet is considered exceptional in Star Wars, With Sidious considering the death star a war ender, Especially at Vader's time, I can only guess that Sidious mastered the power of the Force enough to threaten the universe, But nothing else. Much like a battery that's connected to a power plant, Sure it can go nuclear but it will vaporize itself, With the mastery coming only he how much you can push into yourself without burning yourself in the process.
But even if we give Vader the benefit of 5d scaling, Then there comes the issue of just how often something like a lightsaber is considered a kill shot, Vader needed to resort to stabbing himself with his Lightsaber to beat Maul(Someone who could beat him, Again, Who was unlikely to be off guard thanks to how him lowering it last time ended) and needed special medical attention, Boba could kill other Jedi with their Lightsaber even though he didn't have the Force, And Sidious even if he was surprised had more than enough time to augment his body to endure the reactor, And he still got vaporized. In which case puts their durability(Their bodies at least, And from what you say this was Sidious at his strongest) at star level, Sure they can block far stronger attacks but the moment something actually touches with far less power than them they get hurt, A rather huge weakness when we are putting them against people who eat knuckle sandwiches for breakfast.
Just Almost forgot something, Goku managed to get fast enough to make Jiren go serious, While before he broke time with minimal effort, And then proceeded to push him to his absolute limit with MUI, So he would likely be much faster than Vader while in SSBKK*20, Or just regular SSB.
@@user-so6ps4pb6y The TFU 2 novel.
Watch my Vader video, it's stated he grows stronger in ANH, ESB, and RotJ; even in this video.
Shak-Ti is a test to SK, which is why Vader sends him after her. SK grows stronger after learning his origin, and Vader was holding back against him as shown in my Vader video as well as Seth's Sith ranking video. His human body was able to overpower the Vong leader who was compared to Palpatine, he also withstood Sidious' lightning.
Read further: "Characters that are able to move backwards and forwards through time by movement alone qualify for immeasurable speed. However, due to general inconsistencies, and the fact that several fictions grant this ability to any character able to move FTL, they may be assigned an additional, independent, speed rating for the ability. This should preferably be evaluated on a case-by-case basis."
It's not a given. The Maul fight was an Infinite's, not even canon to Legends. The Jedi Boba kills aren't 5D, but Vader is; Vader's tanked lightsaber strikes in the Dark Times comics. Sidious teleported his consciousness away and wouldn't be amping his lifeless body after his spirit leaves; so no. |
Jiren overpowered Hit's time-hax; "transcending time" in that sense.
Hey crisis is black panther from marvel comics a mastered off all forms of martial arts arts? and prime Darth Vader scales above all the pt titans
@@redhood1997 While I'm not Crisis, Let me put my hat in the ring.
In the Case of Black Panther's skill against Vader's, You have to keep in mind that T'Chala regularly fights people far stronger than him, While Vader, Even without using the force to augment himself, Has the precognition to rely on on top of his skills, And the opponents he's up against are relative in strength to him rather than the one shots people like Peter and T'Chala have going against them.
Nice 👍, finally crisis has done ✅ a dragon ball content 🤩
We need hercule vs jar jar binks
W 🗿👏
Yes just yes
Goku and Vader on top 💯🔥
GOATS FR 🐐🔥🗣️💪
Mr popo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Darth Vader and comp Goku fused
Farmer with shotgun and burger king piccolo >>>>>>>>>>
@@DefNotHacks Gary the Stormtrooper: 🗿
@@BCCSquidward Mouse droid >>>>> comp fiction
Now the real question would be what would happen if Goku Punch Vader in his face at Full 100 percent power.
Force Barriers: "I gotchu, bro." 🗿
Vader go: “Ouch!”
So no head
At the very least, that helmet's shattering beyond repair.
Vader can genuinely absorb ki, at least some Jedi can. Those with the ability can absorb any type of energy, like the time a jedi absorbed the heat of a volcano in order to give themselves a temporary boost in Force power
They still can casually destroy planets, like Vader is not going to stop the equivalent of a death star blast, which is the bare minimum of what Goku can unleash
@@erops7933 hey man i dont think u know , but Vader is actually STRONGER than the Death Star is, but in Star Wars it is explained that they cannot blow up planets by punching the ground or with the force, so they use the Death Star. Their AP (Attack Potency) is higher than their AOE so to speak. Basically if a wall had the durability of a planet, vader could punch through it. However he cannot just do that to a planet.
@@erops7933 but let me be clear i in no way think vader stands a chance against goku or something xd just SO many people don’t know star wars, and i like spreading the word :)
he would explode like yakon did...
20:32 Wow, it’s embarrassing that Death Battle didn’t even mention this part.
they refused to mention a lot that Vader can do with the force like the fact that he can disintegrate someone completely casually he can perfect cell some CASUALLY
Can you do a video swap of Rogues gallery? For example Superman vs Current Thor's rogues gallery (this includes Knull). And vice versa...Thor vs Superman's rogue's gallery.
The real question is which versions from which continuinities we’re using, I feel like Legends characters can take on the entirety of Dragon Ball Super because of the power system exceeding cardinals and all types of mathematics including irrational functions.
Personally I would love to see a fight Between Ssj4 Xeno Goku (game lore) vs Dark Dimension Vader (Canon version).
I say it's Legends within the first 30 seconds of the video...
You saying this means we xan use meta scaling for dbs, with outer goku, so don't bring up cardinals bro
@@Pettam713 Probably, so we can use Crucible Luke or S.O.S Anakin aganist Composite Goku, basically like an Omniversal Battlefield
@@CRISIS_COMICS Ik ik but there is like an entire iceberg of how deep Star Wars Cosmology goes so using different versions could spice things up.
@@Pettam713goofy ahh inconsistent scaling
It is definetly closer than ppl think but goku still negs vader in base form .
like, I've known for years that force users are way stronger than the movies portrayed, but I'm curious how you think its universe level, since you're using Super. like, not using certain material is always fair in these debates if you're transparent about your reasons
I await the day you scale gojo from jjk
How far does Mortis Anakin go in the DB verse? Same question goes with GM Luke.
also i liked your video i thought vader would be star level bc i just didn't care about scaling lmfao
I hope they add both as guest characters in injustice 3 if there ever will be an injustice 3
Awesome that u are doing anime now
I love DBZ and thankfully Ty’s always down to collab🎉
I think you should make a video with the main animated cartoon batmen fight the main cartoon spidermen like the live action one you did
Could you do a video on scaling valkorian from swtor
This is crazy, Jedi’s are constantly needing to dodge blaster rounds while on GUARD they are literally in a war against clones that are on the same physical level as a normal human with some training. Kid Goku with a power level of 10 can wipe out the clone armies by himself but somehow this Jedi’s that is stated are thousands of them are struggling with some droids and clones are now Reaching planet Ap and durability that’s insane statements needs to be backed with feats to be able to not be a fallacy like when DB character say they can blow planets, solar systems , galaxies and universes they actually do it so you can actually scale them when Vader gets overwhelmed by a bunch of rebels with punny blasters while on guard it’s like saying if we saw Goku struggling with a bunch of thugs in dragon ball while on guard and actually having to retreat and then turn around say he is universal let’s say if they never showed he is which they have. So I just find this really stupid
In reality a saibamen would speed blitz all of Star Wars. Vader would literally loose to Chiaotzu he has better feats than Vader 😂
Dragon ball felt pretty lowballed in power, skill and ability.
It wasn’t.
Severely lowballed and they wanked Vader just so he can stand a chance 😂 but the sad thing is they couldn't even get him past BOG goku 😂
How's that?
@@CRISIS_COMICSWell to focus on the powerscaling aspect theres multiple sources which say Frieza in the Namek Saga had the power to destroy the universe in the second form which was stated by King Kai and the Narrator at that time. Then flash forward to him being hit by the spirit bomb, which was stated in a guide to gather energy across the entire universe which 50% power Frieza survived. So with that they definitely got multiple Universal statements to work with. Even you doubt it Toriyama said in a interview all the things said in the series is to not be a hyperbole, to quote him.
“At any rate, I don’t waste to much time blathering on about useless things. As a rule, you can under the context to a certain extent with just the pictures, and with words are just nothing more but a supplement to them. - If you’re going to come out and say something, then make it something that will strengthen the characterization even further, is what I mean.”
Which makes these things very apolitical to be used and valid. Then we got Cell which is stronger than Frieza and has boundless power in his perfect form.
The biggest thing about this is cosmology too because in db a single solars system is considered a nebula, having uncountable amount of stars with it. Yet Cell was was only seeking to destroy the Earth ensuring Gohan had no shot not really using his full power otherwise he would’ve off’d the universe. Then Buu saga was already touch upon but there feats in there and statements with guides which can get Goku in Z to hyper to outer.
This is just Z, DBS is way crazier Vader wouldn’t even be able to perceive Goku nor tank his attack at all…
Plus even with Vader hax resistances wouldnt matter if your opponent is higher in dimensionality which Goku has way more going for him than Vader does. Even without that in DB the stronger you are to your opponent the weaker ones hax if not completely ignored so yeah.
It’s a great video but the Goku scaling unironically negs, Vader’s.
Wow, this is unique. I'd think Goku initially.
Do you have the links for the Ewoks feat calculation?
I have a theory that goes against 99,9999% of powerscalers. All times you see someone in DBZ... EVER destroy a moon or planet, specially casually. It has some perks. Or is a gag(DB) witch is ignored quickly on further episodes, or is a filler. Or has a curious fact. The closer to the planet the attack is released, the more effort it takes, the stronger the character has to be, and the more it take to work. Ki become stronger traveling in vacuum. It was even STATED when Goku and Bills fists collided, that the shockwave was growing stronger, and blowing up planets(while earth at point blank, was unscathed). If you use a "technique made to destroy planets" from long distance, disrupting the core to seal the deal. You can do it with 10,000bp(it was stated on oficial content). The closer to the world and the more generic the technique is, the stronger you have to be for it to work. Thats why friezar had trouble with namek(took more time than he expected). And why the punch shockwave from Goku/Bills, only had this power after cross half universe.
, Frieza destroyed earth in his golden form 1 shot while still on the planet
Can you please 🙏 make a video on how much strong is Lobo from DC Comics.
Awesome vid! I have one thing to add on the dragonball side of things tho. Super saiyan transformations have been stated by the author to amplify your powers beyond what mathematics are capable of. So i believe Goku is just blatantly stronger than star wars
…
@@CRISIS_COMICS it's true, I can link you to the scan if ya want
"50x multipler" yea totally beyond mathematics 😭
@@Blue9k that's just what one of the guides say. Toriyama himself stated they were beyond mathematics
I mean, Star Wars lore does go ham with the Legends canon. Then again, one could also factor in some of the stuff in the anime (and if you wanted to the movies) minus Super or Heroes of course. It would be a delight to see a crossover between the two series outside of Fortnite (especially with Dragon Ball being heavily inspired by Star Wars).
Edit: Huh. I stand corrected. First time I’ve seen decent arguments for Universal Star Wars. Neat.
Decent? How?
@@GummyBearKing1Did you watch the video…
Hey crisis in Disney Canon a Few sources say Sidious toyed with mace > "Mace Windu. Toying with the Jedi Master an anticipation of the arrival of Anakin Skywalker, Palpatine was willing to allow himself to be disarmed to appear more vulnerable when his soon-to-be apprentice arrived. His office window was shattered, and the weapon fell from his hands and down into the depths below when he deliberately left himself open for Windu to deliver a kick to his chest. This left him a single blade."
--Star Wars: Relaunched Fact File 117
Is this true or not?
@@CRISIS_COMICS yeah unfortunately, I did I assume you didn't watch your own video. The question for you is; did you even do any research at all? For starwars
@@redhood1997find a link to that fact file so I can read it, most sources say Windu won outright
Man’s doing anime content now?? You love to see it
DB’s goat’d and Ty knows his stuff 🐉
Both are facts would love to see more 🔥🐉
Some other match ups that vader would struggle against. Someone like goku black or zamasu, moro, gogeta, current goku and vegeta outscale broly and thats before they unlock new forms putting them on par or supassing the gogeta from two arcs ago. Also they just have a high capacity to grow in combat like in the tournament of power where they grew hundreds to thousands of times stronger in just under an hour. Hit could trap vader in the time cage and he could overpower it but the obly one who did that was jiren someone who outscales the gods of destruction in the anime by multiple feats and statements. And tutaminus also isnt just a ki absorber if you equalize the universes since youd need a similar strenght and power in order to absorb it. Like yoda tried to do agains sidous in the revenge of the sith. As stated in the video vader gets to the higher levels of dragon ball mostly through hax and high balled power but woupd sit comfortably in in the upper tier trailing behind the heavy hitters
Can you do Michael Myers vs Leatherface?
The whole verse is a Nappa victim
R2 victim. 🗿
Nappa is fodder as hell
@@X12578 yeah. I’ve learned more about Star Wars scaling and I now disagree with my original comment. I think Star Wars is about Namek level now.
What about the strongest Star Wars force users VS the strongest lantern members from DC?
I’m a big Vader fan but I just don’t see him winning tbh, good video though 👌🏼
Super Goku>>Darth Vader (lore) not (feats)>>z Goku.if you have any questions or objections to what I said, come and i will try my best to explain it.
Please do I'm confused cuz why do u mean by lore not feats
@@ZorusSerif for example kratos,the feats he does in the game play are not visually impressive.but you can only truly grasps his true power by reading source materials . Kratos is 5d with lore,but downplayed to arrow level because he gets injured by arrows in the video game mechanics when fighting enemies
@@uzookafor8721 oh ok thx
23:56 I wonder if that would anger Vegeta since he’s one the few combatants in fiction who can’t do that?
He probably would get pissed XD
www.youtube.com/@Vaelias this is a link to a youtuber who is saying Anakin scales above the ones on Mortis by the time of ROTS
I think that the force is super hard to scale tbh you have to be able to use it to defend against it so how that works is really up to the individual
After watching the video kinda makes me wonder if beings like The Ones, Abeloth, and especially Full Potential Anakin might just dog the entire verse with little effort
I mean I'm pretty sure, only the mortus dagger could kill them because I don't think the father was dying from old age, it was just that as he ages, he just keeps getting weaker and weaker, I think if that's what it was, but I could be wrong
but with that being the only way to kill them, unless you find that dagger they're not dying
but full potential anikin can be killed because he isn't One of the ones but with extreme difficulty with what he could do with the force which is ALOT
Marvel and DC have a higher claim to being the benchmark of scaling, even tho Dragon Ball is important in getting people in the hobby and japanese animation and comics are a pillar of the hobby.
Planet blown up, the end
The problem is that you don't understand how the higher dimensions work. Although Dooku takes these powers from the higher dimensions, he still has a 3D body, and he cannot destroy the universe with a blow. Because not all the Power is available to him, but only a part of it.
If Darth Vader and Palpatine could destroy universes then why didn't they just go blow up the rebel base on Hoth or Endor or anything along the lines of destroying the whole rebel fleets attacking the Death stars why would they even need a Death star
For Sidious its likely due to him not mastering force storms, cause in DE where he masters the ability his force storms have universal range. As for Vader he just has universal ap not universal dc/range
Because Palpatine was so arrogant and lazy, and the Rebels had the most OP plot shield
Because they can’t, this video is basically highballing Star Wars to the maximum while ignoring if it actually can make any sense plot wise.
@@IHateThisCommunity Agreed
@@IHateThisCommunity at least the Legend version ( I don’t care about Disney canon because is a horrible fan made version of Star Wars) Palpatine Vader and Luke were extremely op, Palpatine at least could destroy an entire Star system with its Force storm, Luke was able to destroy an entire fleet of plant size ships without any problems using the force and he was able to use the force to move black holes and he could transform into a Force ghost without dying.
There were also extremely OP weapons, a ISD (each turbolaser shot had a power of 200 gigatons) was capable of whipping the life of a planet in matter hours and the Sun Crusher which was a spaceship of the size of a TIE fighter was able to tank the shot of the Death Star and with a single shot this spacecraft was able to destroy an entire sector of the galaxy.
Am I about to become a Star wars fan? Lol
Palpatine: "Do it."
*Slices Dookus Thinker off in Minecraft*
A DBZ/Star Wars crossover is just what the world needs right now.
What hapend to the ,,Sephiroth vs ganondorf ,, video?
I dont know much about star wars but even if they have the same level of durability and strengh Goku would still be faster.
Even if Vader can react fast enough is moviments are too restricted for him to be able to keep up.
The lightsaber would probably not work on Goku, i mean he is blocking energy attacks probably several times hotter than the sun since his first battle with frieza so the lightsaber would do little to no damage on him.
So the only way Vader has to hurt Goku is using the force but to make a attack strong enough to actually hurt Goku he would probably need some time which would be hard since aside from goku speed he also has instant transmission.
Also Goku has several ranged attacks.
Unless Vader is strong enough to keep Goku imobilized for a long time i dont see any way vader can win this
Best days crisis uploads.
Actually it was stated multiple times the frieza had the power the destroy the universe so and goku was able to defeat him easily as super sayin so take as what you will
Base Goku from BoG, or Krillin from DBS Super Hero CAN solo the verse as soon as Goku absorbed the god ki into his body it’s just not even a challenge anymore. “Because some as strong as you should know when your completely outclassed.”
Did u watch the video?
If we are talking about a current goku, he doesnt use rage to transform, so idk about that boosting theory
Who would you say is the most powerful sith in legends is?
Great video I have a question how strong is characters like Darth Revan,Malgus or Nihilus compared to Vader? I've seen many people say Vader is weaker, but it doesn't make sense to me.
Vader is stronger
Could you do Alucard (hellsing) vs escanor ( 7 deadly sins)
Alcard without his Is omni pleasant Abilities
Can you scale (Tom)spider man pls
To my knowledge (and I may be wrong) solar systems are a lot bigger than real solar systems
Did the thumbnail change, or am I going schizophrenic
I'm a fan of both SW and DB and I can't in good conscience do a debate on it.
Unless Rey or Ben is there, hands down General Blue would body them
@@MonkCheese_fan Star Wars is much more than just movies. 💀
@@MonkCheese_fan Comics really aren't that complicated overall. Heck, even in just movies, Vader in the first movie he's in places himself above the planet destroying Death Star. ☠️
@@MonkCheese_fan But... he is... that's quite literally what this video explains. 💀
This whole video is explaining why Vader and powerful force users like him ARE on the level of characters like Goku & Vegeta. That's the whole point.
Vader is seriously underrated in the power department... which is shocking considering he's ARGUABLY the most iconic character of a time. (Arguably). 😮💨
@@MonkCheese_fan The video is talking about Legends Vader, that's why. 💀
The whole point of the video is comparing Legends Vader to DBS Goku.
Vader when he heard that the dragon ball can revive à person:💀💀🔥🤩
If Star Wars characters consistently have universal level durability? How do they die to things like blaster bolts? Or blasters are just universal?
We’re not talking about characters who die in the movies or shows, we’re talking about highest ranking force users from the novels and comics, and they easily tank blaster bolts which is stated in the lore with contact, can kill your whole internal organ system.
None of the characters I mentioned in this video die to blasters.
@CRISIS_COMICS at the end with vador siphoning a hypothetically 50x amp isn't possible, you'd be assuming goku would be getting 50 times angrier which is kinda dumb, at most if goku got a rage amp, vador would get a little stronger as the rage amp isn't what makes goku stronger or more specifically it isnt what makes him get 50x stronger, it's just a catalyst for a new evolution seperate from his anger
@@Pettam713 Rage amps in Dragon Ball alone are massive and even higher than SSJ multipliers a lot of the time.
@CRISIS_COMICS but they do die to lightsabers, so are the lightsabers universal or something?
Holy Star Wars is op
FINALLY! Someone not underestimating Star Wars, they are so underrated in terms of power. Especially Legends Luke Skywalker. 🔥
Star Wars is more than just movies everyone. 🤦
Material like Legends really opens your eyes to just how powerful SW characters really are.
Spreading the word!
Was post 66 yoda amp when he fought Sidious and how
@@redhood1997Yoda was not amped
Would post 66 yoda beat post IH anakin
The Beatles could take both of them!