TR&CI 120: How You Actually Can Double Up Loyalty Counters With Doubling Season
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- čas přidán 7. 08. 2024
- Part 1: • TR&CI 120: How You Act...
In this episode of Tough Rules & Cool Interactions, I will be continuing the look at the whole interaction and lack of interaction that Doubling Season has with Planeswalkers. Last week covered how DS will cause PWers to enter with double counters, but it will not cause them to gain double counters when you activate their Loyalty Abilities... BUT... this episode will cover a little trick you can do in order to make this actually happen.
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Rules covered in this episode are:
614.16
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"Sunset Arthur" by Michael Wyckoff
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#MTG #Magicthegathering #commander - Hry
Dude, why do these videos not get more views? Like, I get that it is a very niche kind of content, but still, you learn so many cool things about Magic which is growing at such a fast rate.
Thanks man! That means a lot, and yeah, it's just a really niche thing. I don't expect the channel to grow all that fast at all. Most people just run into one specific case and the look up an answer for the thing they're currently dealing with in a game or while building their deck list, so they don't bother subscribing. Also, I don't think CZcams videos show up with their SEO when people type something in question form into a Google search. Mostly, it would link to Reddit threads or some other forum with more clearly defined SEO for keywords.
So with Comet, Stellar Pup the activation is 0 and when you roll the dice the effect then adds or subtracts so yes with a doubling season you would get double what ever you rolled if it is a positive since you don’t double the loss of loyalty ability. Since Doubling Season says If an effect would place one or more counters on a permanent you control, it places twice that many of those counters on that permanent instead. Removing is not placing. I did not look up the answer but am going to go verify. Love the content!
Correct! You nailed it! No need to go verify and glad you're enjoying the content so far. I hope to keep that up.
Just found you through the comment section at The Command Zone's recent JLK and Prof behind-the-scenes video
Oh, very cool. Thanks for checking the channel out. I hope you like rules citations and convoluted explanations. I do.
I first thought is that the Doubling Season would only double the "extra" counters added by Vorinclex's replacement EFFECT, not all the counters including the ones YOU are placing. So the end result of both being on your board would be 3x the counters, not 4x. I can see how, now that the replacement effect has taken hold, all of the counters are counted together for the doubling season though. Thanks!
BQ: I believe the doubling season would double any of the counters added by the abilities that have a +Loyalty symbol in the cost. I believe that symbol is shorthand for "[+/-] this number of loyalty counters on this permanent." Which is why there is a : after it on PWs loyalty abilities usually. Because it's usually a cost. In this case adding or removing the loyalty is part of the effect so I believe doubling season would double any changes that are positive.
Yup, you got it right and are correct about the : in the card text. That denotes an activated ability and every left of it is the activation cost and everything right of it is the effect. Nice.
@ThisIsACommanderChannel I am glad there is a ruling on comet's ability if you roll a 6 and comet somehow Comet has other loyalty abilities (such as a Kasmina, Enigma Sage). When it says "Comet Stellar Pup's loyalty ability" it really means just that one already on the card.
@@heitortremorUn-cards, even official ones, do have some wild rules associated with them.
I'd say Doubling Season will double Comet's loyalty counters, as again adding counters _seem_ to be an effect, not a cost. (the cost is still 0)
Yup, his counters added are the result of the ability's effect, so DS does double them on resolution.
Love this interaction I run an atraxa superfriends deck and I run both in it.
Dude, I just saw a video from another channel the other day and they got this wrong. It was an older video, but I don't think I saw anyone in the comments point it out.
Vorinclex is evil enough on his own. You don't need to give his players more toys! lol. Learned something new today :)
I have a Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider deck with him as the Commander, it's a deck built around crappy and old artifacts and enchantments that care about counters on them. It's a really fun deck but I always ask players if they care about counters on their permanents for their decks before I use the deck so as to not run into a feels-bad moment of my deck shutting their deck down.
That sounds really neat and you sound like a fun person to play against. Hopefully you can get some gameplay up as the channel grows. I thought of you as I was browsing the Outlaws previews and saw Vaultborn Tyrant. I haven't finished all your videos yet, but skimming titles I didn't see one on mutate, and I'd bet a lot of players don't know about the top card of a mutate stack determining whether or not the whole stack counts as a token.
@@sarahbuck2506 Thanks, that really means a lot. Like, seriously, that's so cool. And yeah, I try to approach Commander very differently than how I approach traditional Magic. I treat it like it's a board game and the primary goal for me is that we all have fun. Sure, I do hope to win, that is the objective, but not at the cost of other players having fun. It's weird because I'm actually normally a very, very competitive player in other games, like when I'm playing video games online, I get very heated if I'm on a loosing team yet I'm doing really well and my teammates are letting me down. But with Commander, I'm totally okay losing, in fact in my mind getting focused on by players (if warranted) is an honor because that means your deck was doing so well that the table all had to work together to take you out fast.
Anyhow, yes, I do want WotC to revisit Mutate, I've wanted to cover it for a while and I have a very, very cool and strange interaction with it, a scenario that will melt your brain. Teaser, it involves Radiant Performer and then another one involves Phage the Untouchable. If WotC doesn't revisit Mutate soon, then I'll just do the episode on that and hope that enough people still care about Mutate. It's such a cool mechanic and I want them to revisit it and take even more risks with what it's capable of doing.
Is the Comet question similar to something like Chandra, Acolyte of Flame and her first loyalty ability? If so then I'm leaning towards yes, the Comet will get double.
It is similar. That Chandra would get nothing for activating her +0 but then when her +0 resolves and you control a DS, then all of the PWers her ability puts a Loyalty Counter on will get double that many.
Yes, episode 3 please
It's in the pipeline. Probably not next episode, but at some point. I actually might just do it as a bonus question at some point, sneak it in for those who did watch these two episodes.
Was that rule created specifically for Doubling Season? I can't think of any other card that is worded just like it, so that rule seems specific to it.
In terms of counters, yes, I believe that DS is the only card in Magic worded that way. For tokens, DS also shares that wording with Parallel Lives and Anointed Procession. Keep an eye out for a possible Part 3 that might touch on that.
What’s the name of that card in the background I have a play at with it and love the art?
Demonic tutor
@@js91666 thanks