TR&CI 127: What Does It Mean To Be Mana That Could Be Produced - Replacement Effects/Unpayable Costs
Vložit
- čas přidán 7. 08. 2024
- In this episode of Tough Rules & Cool Interactions, I will be talking about some very popular card like Fellwar Stone, Exotic Orchard, and Reflecting Pool, and what happens to them when certain lands are out that might let you tap for any of the five colors or they might not.
The full Tough Rules & Cool Interactions playlist: • Tough Rules & Cool Int...
Link to MtG Comprehensive Rules: yawgatog.com/resources/magic-...
Rules covered in this episode are:
106.7
Music used in this video:
"Sunset Arthur" by Michael Wyckoff
Link to TIACC survey to help me grow and mold this channel to content you want to watch: docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FA...
#MTG #Magicthegathering #commander - Hry
I would imagine that what "could" be produced is any color, since the ability doesn't have anything limiting what it could produce, only a line of text that defines what it does produce at this moment. I also think that given that most of the time the pendant is asking for information that would be hidden until the ability cost is paid, the fact that Cromat is on top doesn't matter. What is important is that, all costs having been paid, the pendant could tap for any number of the 5 colors. While what actually is produced is specific to the milled card, what could be produced isn't. In the same way that tapping a Frontier Bivouac for U doesn't mean it couldn't have produced G or R, tapping the pendant and producing GU doesn't mean it couldn't have produced W, R, or B.
In this case, the "could" is dependent, or is defined by, what is milled.
The CR 106.7 says "if the ability were to resolve at that time," and if the ability of the pendant were to resolve without paying the cost, it would generate no mana of any colors.
It's like how you're not allowed to pay for X in a cost when you're casting without paying the cost. "The milled card" doesn't exist if you didn't pay the cost, so the pendant "couldn't" tap for any color. You're not assuming "all costs have been paid", you're ignoring costs.
Yes, the plain English definition of "could" doesn't match up with the rules, which sucks, but the rules are still the rules.
When looking at the most recent text for the pendant, it does show that the mill is part of the cost. That ruling said we can ignore the cost, but what if the cost is what defines what could be produced? This is tricky.
But not tricky enough, you're right on the money with it. It is indeed what defines it making the result undefined, and so we can check out CR 106.5 that says "If an ability would produce one or more mana of an undefined type, it produces no mana instead."
@@ThisIsACommanderChannel Interesting, what wild scenario.
It's just like casting an X spell without paying costs. X is zero if you don't pay.
Since you're not paying the cost, the checking the cost defaults to nothing.
If I ever ran into that scenario in a game, I'd just admit defeat to my opponent for creating such a ridiculous situation. I have no clue how the bonus would have worked but I saw some of your replies and that's nice to know now. I also guessed incorrectly on the Vivid Grove, I thought both were going to be a no on all five colors. Solid video.
HA! Yeah, this one required a lot of setup to get crazy in the BQ, funny enough, it actually happened in a game. I use the Pendant in a few decks that like self mill but may not be in black/blue, and I run Ashaya in pretty much every deck I have with green in it because I love the ramp from her and also the protection she gives you from Cyclonic Rift types of board wipes that don't hit non-land things.
Yikes, this one was totally non-intuitive but at least the rule was clear.
I'm going to say "no, only green" to the bonus question since the phrasing in the rule says "ignore costs", and the Charmed Pendatnd/Creature/Land has a colon on the text for the activated ability to generate mana from the top of the library.
Correct, it would only be able to produce the known color, green in this case. CR 106.5 says that "If an ability would produce one or more mana of an undefined type, it produces no mana instead." And because we ignore the mill the result becomes undefined.
For the bonus question I'd say "any color", regardless of what is in the top of the library.
If we check on what CR 106.5 says, does that help out "If an ability would produce one or more mana of an undefined type, it produces no mana instead."
I think Pendant could only produce green because the mana it could produce isn’t defined in the ability and is dependent on the card that gets milled.
Right on the money! You got it, it is undefined because the Mill is ignored.
That Charmed Pendant is really cool. It is not a great mill engine but you can use it for that and a chance for mana.
I run it in my Araumi of the Dead Tide deck. I have a foil of it and it looks fantastic!
Its a ‘Could.If.But’ statement 😂
Great episode!!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. It's one of those episodes that while working on the script and thinking of the name for the episode, I just assume most people will see the title and laugh, thinking it's a super boring episode, but these sorts of things are actually really confusing for a lot of players, so I hope that they don't end up skipping this episode.
I think you really nailed the title for this one
@@dejank2635 Thanks, it was a tough one and I kept running past the character limit of 100.
I got the gemstone cavern one but I got it wrong for the vivid one. It would be 50/50 for me to guess on the bonus. I assume the gane will do the safer answer and not let you even try to get the colors from the milled card.
Correct! CR 106.5 is the specific thing that covers that and it says that an undefined mana would result in no mana. Luckily in this specific case, the Pendant is still able to make a green mana, so the land can still make a green.
My brain hurts, I didn't think this one would hurt my brain.
It's sneaky. The obvious things in Magic that are confusing are like Layers, but even things like a simple land ability can be confusing.
If you ignore the mill like the CR says you do, then how could it know what could be produced? It seems like by ignoring the cost in his situation that the game can't know. So in that case I assume it does what the game usually does which treats it like a zero, right?
You assumed correctly! Well done, I'm not tricking many of ya. In this case, the Pendant is still capable of guaranteeing a green mana, so that can still be produced.
Hey man, got a question about something that came up last night in a game. One guy had recreated the Sheldon deck "you did this to yourself" and he cast a Deflecting Palm while another player had Dictate of the Twin Gods. We couldn't agree on how the damage would work out. Does it increase twice?
Oh, that's a good one, very interesting scenario. I've been working on the video for tomorrow but I'll put it on hold for next week and work on something for this. Let me know if you don't want your name showing up in the screenshot of the question for the video.