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TR&CI 128: Subscriber Request - Does Deflecting Palm + Damage Doubler = Quadruple Damage?
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- čas přidán 7. 08. 2024
- In this episode of Tough Rules & Cool Interactions, I will be replying to a subscriber requested question from last week's episode, thealcoholic83 asked a really cool question about Deflecting Palm and how it can have a pretty wild interaction with some damage Replacement Effects.
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Rules covered in this episode are:
614.7
616.1
616.1f
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"Sunset Arthur" by Michael Wyckoff
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Thanks man! This makes a lot of sense and I shared it with my buddy from the game. Maybe I'll see the other 2 guys next week.
Good question
For sure, and thanks again for the question.
I’m a simple man. I saw defecting palm and I clicked.
Is that one of your pet cards?
It's a fun card, I always like to see it and Comeuppance in games.
choosing to quadruple the damage then casting your own deflecting palm! How the turntables have turned!
Turning tables is always a fun thing.
I actually had somebody cast a comeuppance at the last EDH night. Was a lot of fun. I'm glad there's at least one reprint of it!
Yeah, the price of the OG was getting up there. Thankfully the reprint is pretty affordable.
I did understand the Deflecting/Dictate interaction correctlyt - there are clearly two distinct sources of damage.
I'm trying to find how this would work with some of the effects that do not create additional sources of damage... maybe with a Stuffy Doll thrown in :)
Stuffy Doll would be a similar result to the Palm, slightly different in that it's a Triggered Ability instead of all part of one thing resolving. But yeah, it would get the doubling effect twice and is a different source of damage each time.
Harm's Way is an example of a card where's there is only a single source of damage. In that case the damage would only be doubled once since each replacement effect can only be applied to each event once.
@@seandun7083 Correct, that is card is a Redirect, the source of the damage is still the same as before, the Harm's Way isn't becoming a source of damage, just telling some of the damage where it is going.
I nevwr really noticed the art on Deflecting Palm. I always saw the hand being blocked, but i never noticed the bones breaking out of the flesh. That's crazy.
Yeah, that art is freaking sick!
COMMANDER!!!
Woohoo!!!
HECK YEAH!
I've been away traveling for work but now I am back and I have a bunch of your videos to catch up on.
I hope you enjoy them.
As always, just a really cool video with a wild interaction and result that i never would have thought about during a game.
Glad you enjoyed it. And yeah, when you're mid-game, it's always easy for things like this to just slip right past you as you're so preoccupied keeping track of all the other chaos going on in Commander.
Simple way to explain an interaction that’s not intuitive, great vid. You should make one explaining blink/removal interactions with cards tidehollow scruller effects on the stack. I see a lot of new and experience players struggling with that interaction
Oh yeah, these are classic types of things to abuse so that things don't return, but for a lot of players it can be really hard to understand how it's different from cards that do a similar effect to it. I actually have been sitting on a really tricky interaction with these sorts of cards, like... really really tricky. So maybe I'll do a 2-parter back-to-back to cover them both.
I used this combo in a standard back during theros days. Got so many people this way, even won a store champs
Oh snap! Congrats on the store champs win!
Neat interaction! Merci!
Yup, pretty cool trick.
Would having “Imodane , the Pyrohammer” some damage doubler “Angrath’s Marauders” and then casting “Shock” deal double damage to creature but quadruple for each opponent?
With Imodane being a TA, the Shock targeting just a single Creature would have it deal 2 doubled to 4 to that creature, triggering Imodane to deal 4 doubled to 8 to each opponent. So, yup, you would be correct. If you really want to spice it up even more, add in something like Chandra's Incinerator. Then you'd get to deal 8 doubled to 16 damage to one of each of your opponents' Creatures or PWers.
This reminds me, I had a game recently and we ran into a situation in which we just didn't know what the answer was. If I attack with my voltron commander and then take an extra combat and then attack with my voltron commander again, then can I use my Minas Tirith to draw a card? We ended up rolling with it and saying yes, but the guy runs that deck a lot so I'd like to know for sure for future games.
Oh snap! Two solid questions in a row. Hmmm, I might could do a video around this, it wouldn't be too long of a video, but only because there isn't really any CR basis but it just comes down to wording and semantics. I'll give you an answer here, but I may also do a video on it if I can fit some other things in with it.
Short answer, you wouldn't be able to use the Minas Tirith's ability to draw a card. Reason being is that yes, you have attacked twice with a single creature each time, which seems like you've attacked with two creatures this turn but it is technically "you have attacked with one singular creature twice this turn". I hope that that makes sense. If you swung with your Command on attack #1 and then took an extra combat and during that one you attacked with a different creature, even though they were at different combats, you've at least attacked now with two different creatures over the course of the turn.
@@ThisIsACommanderChannel Oh man, so we screwed it up in our game. That's unfortunate. When you phrase it like that, it does make sense. Thanks for the detailed reply. It was pretty quick for a future video, maybe just put it in as a bonus question or something like that. Thanks for the reply again!
@@kyleedmunds5329 That's all good. As long as all players agree to what your went with, it's just a casual match, the fun is all that matters. And yeah, that's a good idea, I haven't done bonus tricks or anything like that in a while.
@@ThisIsACommanderChannel Looking forward to seeing it pop up.
Crazy, but I just saw this pop up at the table next to mine today.
Oh, very cool. Did they figure it out/know the result already?
@ThisIsACommanderChannel The guy that cast Deflecting Palm didn't know he could do it, I waited for them to play it out and then after I mentioned it. I didn't want to influence their game, or backseat drive since I wasn't a part of their pod.
Question:
I have a deck with Vial Smasher the Fierce and Sakashima of a Thousand Faces as companion commanders. The idea is to make a bunch of copies of Vial Smasher.
1) In my deck I have Fiery emancipation, Furnace of Rath and City on Fire. How is the damage calculated if all of them are on the battlefield at the same time?
2) If I play Worldfire as my first spell on a turn, does Vial Smashers ability trigger before, after or not at all?
1) All three of those Enchantments have a Replacement Effect, so when you deal damage to an opponent that player will decide the order in which each RE applies to that damage. One thing to note about these specific 3 is that they are multiplicative and none are additive so there really isn't any change in result for how they are ordered. Let's say your Vial Smasher triggers for 2 damage, the opponent being damaged could pick between 2 * 2 * 3 * 3 ; 2 * 3 * 2 * 3 ; 2 * 3 * 3 * 2 and in all of these orders the result is always 36.
2) If you controlled 1 or more Vial Smashers and then you cast a Worldfire then there would be the 1 or more triggers for each of those Vial Smashers for 9 damage randomly dealt to an opponent and they will each be on the Stack above the spell of Worldfire and so they will all resolve before the Worldfire resolves. Depending on your opponents' health and how many copies of Vial Smasher your controlled at the time you cast the Worldfire, you might end up winning the game before the Worldfire would ever finish resolving.
Hope this all made sense and helps you out.